1917 Vulcan Steam Locomotive: Brazing a Broken Steam Chest Casting
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- 1917 Vulcan Iron Works 0-4-0 Steam Locomotive:
Brazing a Broken Steam
Chest Casting
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Dayum! That's some heavy-duty brazing. That museum is lucky to have you on the team!!
one of the most amazing things, to me, is that they had wooden patterns for almost every cast part that goes into an engine...
Rucker has become UA-cam’s Cast Iron Brazing KING 🔥
What Keith does is a very poor example of Brazing, he was clearly taught by some backyarder who also did not know what he was doing.
@@pijnto he was probably taught by other UA-camrs. The high level craftsmen and technicians don’t have time to make UA-cam videos…therefore, us weekend hobby people only learn from other hobby people.
One of the nice things about brazing is that the braze alloy can form a eutectic mixture with the metal that is being brazed, meaning they are not just simply stuck together, but form something analogous to the fusion zone you get with a weld. Obviously there are tons of variables involved, but if the braze composition is right and the process is good, the braze joint can be surprisingly strong.
That's not what "eutectic" means. The term refers to the alloy of the filler having a melting point lower than that of the constituent metals and that alloy also has the property of "freezing" at a precise temperature without a "plastic" range.
@@Mishn0 Yes, which is what I meant. I was not strictly referring to the process here. What I was working with also involved metalized ceramics, which it was desirable to form at least some form of solute at the interface. Also that happens with the base metal as well in that there is a transition region. But the base material and the braze can and do alloy together and form eutectics at the interface which forms a strong ductile bond if the composition is right, but in that case its probably one principally of dissolution into the sub straight to begin with. Here it may just be pure adhesion, but a cross-section would tell if and how much the braze and the base metal interact with each other.
@@Mishn0 Another desirable aspect is that the eutectic was the last to solidify, which is also desirable for things where there may be a CTE mismatch, as the lower that goes before it finally solidifies, the lower the potential stresses will be once it finally gets down to room temperature.
Thanks Keith.
Man, you should be very proud of yourself, keeping this old planet turning !!! You are a hero to many of us ! Thank you for this.
My first summer job (outside of our farm) was in a cast iron foundry. Took several months to get my skin pores cleaned. But that is not the real story. Much later, in my long term job, we had a batch of some aluminum alloy enclosures made. That batch apparently lasted a little too long, as when we eventually needed a second batch, there was nowhere the original casting model to be found. In desperation, we tried using one of the original lot castings for a model. The casting company warned us about shrinkage to be expected, but the stated values did not seem to be too bad, so we went ahead. Indeed, all the other dimensions were still acceptable, but the motor & bearings block was now too long to fit inside, maybe about 1/4 inch. After losing some hair of several heads, we found a replacement motor that with a new adapter plate still fit in the reduced space. The day saved, but we promptly removed the long term sales plans for that particular item.
It looks to me that moving the bolts may have contributed to the cracking. When you remake it I would suggest that the bolts go back to their original position. Also you might add some bracing to the top and bottom to minimize flexing.
Agreed. A couple of holes drilled outwards into that ugly flange from inside the chest and tapped / bolted may help to balance the unequal loading from those packing gland bolts.
Absolutely. Before we were told that it had been re-tapped I was thinking that it was a poor initial design. That's a good idea also Gordon.
Ready to get back in action. If you plan to make castings for both sides I believe I would just make that neck square the full cross section then use 2 longer studs in those holes if you had to. That would be much stronger and balanced.
Improving or restoring, that is the question.
Nice job! I was surprised that you could close up the crack with the clamps without something breaking. Considering your experience, the brazing vs welding for cast iron seems to be settled, not that I'll be doing either one. New casting would be great, but they look tricky.
Very cool! I don't know squat about trains and to see just this small amount has been a real education. Thanks Keith.
So satisfying.
THANKS KEITH
Nice job Keith.
From the way it looked in the earlier video the pin end travels in a shallow vertical arc as the valve is actuated instead of a straight line. That is a very long lever when you consider the distance from the packing gland back to the valve lever and that arc is likely putting a lot of stress on that casting. Especially if you looked at the original stud locations on the sides, Perhaps something more like a cross pin as used on the other end, instead of the threaded coupler would remove that stress.
Great gob!!!! Fir years you will be my call for advice on cast repair.
On the new casting I'd see about making the stuffing box with three or two support lines on top and bottom if possible on the neck. Not like the old one with no support were it cracked. 👁👁👍👍 Plus I notice the push rod was bent by design and It may be bent more just enough to move the packing box back and forth. May need an alinement check.
There are limitations to the patterns and controlling how the liquid metal reacts upon cooling.
I agree. The alignment on the rod needs checking
That railroad museum is just a couple miles from my shop, Keith.
I did a LOT of brazing in my career and a old guy that taught me was, to ALWAYS peen the braze to avoid and stresses in the joint, It always worked for him and with me as well, not sure you have even heard of that process or not. One thing is it can't hurt if nothing else.
I was taught to peen whether you used braze or nickle. Peen until it was cool. The alternative was to put the piece in something so that it cooled very slowly, sometimes it took 2 days to completely cool if it was a large piece. Peening worked for me. I have a repaired piece that has worked for 36 years now.
@@mikewatson4644 Nickel. Not Nickle like pickle
Thanks Keith 👍
Nice to hear its a rep, see you next time.
Thanks for having us in to see this work. 👍
Thank you Keith, very enjoyable video.
Yea I'm looking at that and it looks like a project for Windy Hill Foundry.
Thank you for sharing. Fantastic repair, You make it look easy but I know it is a lot of work to make that repair.
Thank you for this video, awesome repair. Also, thank you for normalizing the audio while grinding, it makes the video easier to watch! 👍🏼
Keith,
First, thank you very much for your excellent videos. I have been watching for years and enjoy every one of them; however, I enjoy your steam locomotive videos the best!
Second, re the steam chest. I thought the way it works is that the valve allows steam into the cylinder to push the connecting rod back and turn the wheel. As the valve moves, that steam is exhausted. As the valve continues to move, new steam is comes into the cylinder on the opposite side of the piston and pulls the connecting rod, also turning the wheel. I think this is called a double acting cylinder.
Thanks again from a retired EE.
From what I can see and correct me if I'm wrong. It looks like it wasn't the repair weld that broke, it just cracked along side it then pressure moved that crack across the upper weld bead. Whoever repaired it the first time, did do a good job. To me, when you're dealing with heat on cast iron, you're dealing with a constant movement of the metal.
Keith, why didn't you just remove that valve and shaft out from the housing? Isn't there a possibility of that rod for the valve losing it's temper and maybe "warp" a little? Great video as always, cheers :)
Keith, The Steam Workshop in the UK is restoring a Flower narrow gauge engine. They showed having several cast iron parts at a facility that specializes in cast iron welding. They heated the parts in a furnace and gas welded them on a heat source with cast iron rod. Then, stress relieved the welded parts. Have you ever tired gas welding cast iron with cast iron filler rod?
I've used cast iron rod to repair cracked automotive exhaust manifolds. I preheat the entire part to about 600F using a propane BBQ grill. The "rod" I used was triangular shaped, about 0.2" on a side. The cast iron puddles nicely - lots of surface tension, but it doesn't flow as readily as brazing, so you have to have good access to the repair area. I place the part back into the BBQ and then turn the heat down to hold about 200F and let the casting "simmer" overnight to stress relieve from the brazed area.
The repair is as good as the original casting. When you think about it the casting process melts and solidifies cast iron. The welding process does the same thing, only over a smaller area, and with a higher cooling rate as the mass of metal soaks the heat right out of the welding zone. This, of course, has to be done using oxy-acetylene torches.
I agree with Keith, nickel is not the best way to go, especially if it is done with any kind of arc process. Arc welding (even TIG) produces way too concentrated heat affected zone (HAZ) and that can lead to a lot of local stress build up. Grey cast iron (the most common kind) has graphite flakes that precipitate out of the molten metal as it cools. The cracks tend to follow the flake/iron interface. The finer the flakes are (as a result of more rapid cooling) the more of a barrier they become to cracking, and that's pretty much what you get when you weld with cast iron rod.
Keith did a very nice job on this brazing repair. Looks to be very serviceable. But, I'm still concerned that there is a downward load on the operating rod that created a repeating stress/relaxation with each cycle of the valve and that led to fatigue cracking. The fact that this "new" crack more or less followed the old nickel weld repair is indicative that the problem existed back then and was never corrected. That, of course, needs to be ironed out during reassembly.
@@Zircon10 as far as your last thoughts about having a possible downward force on the rod that caused excess pressure, I had that thought when I watched the first video. I wondered if the rod might have a slight bow in it.
I also wondered if it could be something like tightening those flange nuts unevenly? Instead of half a turn on top and half a turn on the bottom, it looked like maybe they went half a turn on the bottom and one turn on the top. Causing more of a load on one side and eventually cracking it.
Fowler!
@@keithyinger3326 The linkage rod from the train running gear was quite bowed. If you go back to the previous video you can see it as he removes it.
@@RicktheRecorder Yes...my mistake.
2:39 oh... i see now. This is because they over tightened the stuffing box. There's a square plate on top, so last time i couldn't figure out how the heck did that crack occur. Yup, this makes perfect sense now. I've seen it happen with stuffing box type taps so many times, it would make sense that it can happen with something as big as this one as well.
thanks for sharing.
Thanks for showing the details of the process. It is a rather brutal process with the grinding, heating, and brazing. I have been too gentle...no more.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing
thanks a lot Keith. I really learn a lot from your work. From Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Very nice brazing Keith.
Can't wait to see more of your projects.
Thanks Keith l think Brazing cast iron works very well l use it a lot....l have been watching my friend Clark casting some stuff......
Shoe🇺🇸
Well, I was going to say you could get a head start on the eventual replacement by making measurements for a rough casting (ring of 2-by-4s, a ring of plywood, & big block of wood on the end level of rough) that would be generously oversize, and get the final measurements down the road, but then you went and got blueprints.
That was a tough job you made it look easy but that was a lot o work. There is three ways to repair old castings, brazing, brazing, brazing.
In the event of a recast of that part, I believe that the neck should be redesigned because,it is definitely a weakness
very good repair job on that part, probably better than the original NI rod repair,
I often used bronze rod to repair cast iron parts namely marine exhaust where frost have broken them with generally a good success.
I even used easy flow silver rods to repair precision parts that were cleanly broken with the result that the parts have returned to service even without remachining
very good video.
Might you know what rod Keith is using that stays mushy so that he can fill up the trough he ground? Easy Flow would simply run off.
I wonder if Keith considered breaking the part off completely, cleaning the surfaces with a bead blast and then brazing with Easy Flow.
I think I have a new respect for brazing now. In no small part due to Kieth's expertise.
Keith, I have a jaw from a vintage adjustable angle drill press or machining vise that was welded, and it looks bad, and isn't a good repair. I'll likely make a pattern of the piece, and get a small local foundry make a new one. I could buy a new one made of Chineseium, but I prefer quality and function over a cheap tool not made for durability.
Dang, nicely done! Brazing isn't the prettiest at any application, but that turned out amazing. That'll be easily cleaned up. You could almost use it as is also. Very pretty brazing job
That. Is a great repair job Kieth thanks for taking the time to post
Keith, sure is a nice video. I like to watch you work on different items.
Stay safe stay healthy.😃😃😃😁
Keith, what ever happened to the steam locomotive part you sent to Adam. If I remember correctly he could not do it so he sent it back to you.
Keith, just a thought, maybe it might be time to invest in a larger oven to heat parts before brazing and to allow to cool slowly. If you couldn't find a larger industrial oven, maybe an old kitchen oven would work in your shop.
Thanks for sharing I’ve welded some but never got to braze anything maybe one day I’ll get a chance to try it
At the 20 minute mark or so, there looks to be a crack on the side wall of the cating.
May be just a mark of some kind.
Hope that's all it is.
Keith, it would be greatly appreciated if you could give us an update on the situation with the NC&StL 576 locomotive stoker engine. Thank you.
Also the Austin timing gear, and the Bandsaw?
I guess he's restoring his horizontal boring mill to help him get the stocker engine milled, but I bet that spray welding they did to it will need redoing because it was flaking off when Abom tried to shape it down.
brilliant keith well done
Nice work sir.
Why did the flange crack from the main casted frame? The threaded rods that transfered the pulling force were seated in the flange that broke loose. The pushing and pulling happened within the flange. Nevertheless, the flange broke apart from the main casted frame. That i sweird. Isn't it?
Nice work.
keith why not bore it and thread for a piece of pipe ? i think its design flaw not casting flaw and its probably already brittle from the nickle rod leaving a solid braise on compromised cast. as always thanks for the videos!
brazeingley bold repair...
Great job. Should last for another 25 years
As I watched this I began to wonder why they cast this with a flange on it instead of a full thickness part, at least on the end with the packing. It's sandwiched between two other parts so there doesn't seem to be a need for a flange unless they were trying to cut back on weight. Weight doesn't seem like a problem on a traction engine.
Have you looked into getting an extended warrantee for the locomotive?
My Dad used to braise as if it was tig the weld looked like a stitch
I could give a go at making a wood pattern for the casting if its needed.
Is that a new crack that I see running through the bolt hole and up beside the weld at 18.00 ?
Hi Keith! Is this damage possibly caused by the bent linkage to the rest of the train? When you removed the linkage rod it had quite a bow in it.
I would redesign and make the new steam chest with a much smaller gland area. The current design is a lot of square inches=more pressure on gland area. A new design confining the gland wouldn't be subject to as much loading pressure. Maybe a design similar to a water faucet compression fitting over the gland? As the gland wears, a simple application of torque would seat the gland. When the gland fails, replace it. A simple compression fitting. We're not building an overland railroad....
is that rod operating in a linear fashion? Or is there up and down movement also?
Would it be possible to thread those studs all the way into the steam chest & put some sealed nuts on the inside (acorn nuts or similar)? Don't know if there is enough clearance for that.
Could the problem with this part be upstream of the steam box, putting sideways force on the casting? To me it looks like it pushing it up.
Here 17:14, is that another crack going down that hole?
Hey Keith is there another crack through the left bolt hole looks like it on video.
Also if possible could you add a lens to the camera so we can see you brazing now it is just blown out
Thank you Keith
You have a lot of work on that steam chest.
I would use a carbide triple cut ball rotary file to grind that crack .
Good for you!
Would that rod being bent have caused that crack to develop?, being bent when attached to the rod running into the steam chest it would have to apply side pressure to the packing housing.
I think they should have left the studs where they were, there is no support behind them now
Did you say "adding some raisins?" I thought...
Out of curiosity, could you control the flow of the brazing rod by using the same material you use for damming around babbitt bearings?
Possibly the temperatures used brazing would be too hot for the damming material. It's a thought though.
Ooh, yeah -- the temperatures are wildly different! Babbitt is made to melt at really low temperatures. And even at those low temperatures, it seems like that damming material gets a little charred in the process, or does it? I don't remember.
Couple of questions, why are you using a rosebud instead of a brazing head,,you have no flow control of your metals ,and why didn't you clean the area around the ground out bits,,braze doesn't stick to rust and you brazed 3 times the width you ground out ?
Why? He wanted to hear you whine about it!
@@paulcopeland9035 did I ask you the question? Or are an official spokesman for the channel? If neither of the above refer to you,then mind your own business
Because he wants to keep dumping as much heat as possible onto the piece rather than pinpointing just the target area. I rarely braze with a rosebud because I don't usually deal with large pieces, but it's not difficult. I actually err in the other direction far too often- using too small a tip for the job. Also, I've been using O/A for 40 years, and I've never heard of a "brazing head".
@@componenx just because your doing it 40 years it doesn't mean you have been doing it right for 40 years,regardless, but yet again did I ask you? Are you another official channel spokesperson? If I direct a question at someone I don't expect to talk to the monkeys,I expect the organ grinder to respond, mind your business
@@rival1016 Oh, so you're one of those types. Don't ask inane questions if you don't want answers. Keith rarely answers questions because he doesn't have that kind of time. Now go crawl back under your rock.
Just having the original manufactures blue prints has cut out a lot of the work required to make the new replacement steam chest!
While I am sure that the packing material is suitable for nominally high heat, I would be concerned that with the rosebud brazing, that the packing material has bern damaged as. The cast iron was much hotter than what would be experienced under normal use.
I'm sure it was all removed before the work commenced.
@@dolvaran, to remove the packing, would require that the valve rod would have to be removed first, and possibly the plate with 5he bolts
@@walterulasinksi7031 no. packing puller
@@walterulasinksi7031 I doubt it - it's accessed from the outside of the steam chest and would have been around the valve pushrod. You could see that the pushrod was at a slight angle - showing that the packing had been removed. Keith is no fool and is experienced in working on this locomotive.
@@dolvaran I have viewed this on a small screen. While I could see that the valve rod had been pushed into the closed position, fully in, I could not see the rod in an angle. Keith does have a lot of experience on this locomotive and would most likely have pulled the packing material and leather gaskets. I only mention as as he did not indicate that he had done so.
Keith did you see the thread on the bottom stud
soldering, brazing, welding . What is the difference?
I know from soldering electronics that it is between 200 and 400 °C / 400°F and 750°F. The other must be hotter.
Soldering and brazing are essentially the same, just using different filler metals and temperatures. The result is a chemical bond between the base metal and filler. The base metal and fillers are always dissimilar. With welding, the base metal is melted along with the filler material, causing a mixing of the metals and a physical bond, and the metals can be similar or dissimilar.
Could I suggest that as you preheat and begin the brazing that you cover the end you are not brazing with the blanket so that it stays warmer and helps to keep stress down?
I feel like it would almost be worth having a secondary torch or heat gun blowing on the rest of the part to keep it from sinking so much heat out of the brazing area. Judging by the sweat on KR's shirt, it was hot enough in there!!
Hi Kieth, why did the crack happen in the beginning? is there something out of alignment?
Rich
Toot toot!!!
Is the print actually for the pattern or the finished part and then the pattern maker calculates the dimensions for the pattern?
Hi Keith. It seems it’d be a lot easier to CNC machine a new part (especially now that you have the blueprint) than to make a casting, though I don’t know what the difference in price would be. Maybe John Saunders (NYC CNC YT channel) would be willing to help, and do a collaboration with the museum.
im with you on this. why cast it when you can machine it?
@@davidhall1779 Authenticity? I mean they could probably get a diesel engine and electric motor to run that train and do away with steam altogether. I know I know, Im taking it a bit far but thats my best guess.
Because the engine is a working piece of machinery in a living history museum.
I also agree. Machining from a block of steel is likely more cost effective than making a pattern and casting two bodies THEN machining them. Cast iron is good for a wear surface between the rod and bore but a bronze bushing could be used there.
I wonder when you'll do the new casting if you're going to re-enforce that area. It's a weak point in the original design.
I don’t know if you heard of Clark, at Windy Hill foundries. He’s down in Mississippi. Maybe he could help you make some new parts?
They have already collaborated on several projects.
LOL
Keith has mostly made Clark and his business what it is today. They are best of friends and Keith has all of his casting done there. Keith has his "signature straight edge" cast by Clark.
Not sure it would be practical in this situation but how does TIG brazing compare on cast iron?
...wasn't all that it's cracked up to be-(?)
(snucker-snucker-snucker-snucker-!!)
Hey Keith, what's happening with the stoker engine???
Will you have to remove the rod and machine the rod bore and did the brazing not go into the rod bore?
11:15 self-lighting torch?
Took me a second also- the red hot metal reignited the torch.
Now that you are working on a steam engine project - what is the status of the stocker engine?
The drinking game continues. Not a comment section goes by without a question about the stoker (yes, stoker. Not, stocker) engine. This has been going on for a long while now!
Is there any way to reinforce that area to prevent future failures?
How many pounds of rod did you use on that repair?
I have been doing more and more cast brazing at work, and one of the maint. guys keeps saying to peen with a needle scaler. I was never taught that in school, and have not seen anyone do it in the 20 years worked. What are your opinion all?
Is the brazing too hot for the damming material you use for babbitt? I think you will get at least another 25 years out of it . Thanks .
just like a dentist
What happened to the stoker engine repair effort?
Another one!!! Stoker engine questions are now in the thousands!!
Squatch253 showed us a week ago some *huge* brazing repairs where you can see how the pieces broke a second time at different points in the cast iron while the brazing held up perfectly.
Search for "The Most Impressive Braze Weld I've Ever Seen" or use this link: ua-cam.com/video/HnqqYUWhotI/v-deo.html
What happened to the stoker engine project?
Will that steam chest need to be checked for warpage before installing?
It's not going to warp that much with an even heat and cooling.
The copper wire gasket can easily seal it back up when they mount it back on the engine.