Great job explaining this Jason. Nice to learn some tricks of the trade! You are really good at breaking things down. Thanks for the shout out too! Let's do that interview brother.
I have a question... This video contradicts your first video on this topic. at the 16:17 mark your measuring at the top of the pushrod tube cup, but in your first video your measuring at the base of the pushrod tube cup (13:46). Which is correct? Id the base is correct your off almost a 1/4" on this one.
Hey what's going on brother, yeah I can see were it seems like the information may be a bit confusing... the big difference here it the type of rocker arm being used. Depending on the rocker arm set up such as with these two examples 1:1 and 1:4 the position of the push-rods is a little bit different in relation to the rocker arm adjuster. This is the reason for the information appearing to be different. What your looking for according to the great Pat Downs from CB Performance with 1:4 ratio rockers is " at half-lift, the pushrod should be straight in-line with the valve adjusting screw. If it is not, remove the pushrod and adjust the length until the pushrod and valve adjusting screw form a straight line (at half-lift). Good Article: www.cbperformance.com/Articles.asp?ID=263 With both of these videos, I was trying to give reference points to check the valve balance, at half lift you want an even balance between the valve face and the pushrod. This balance is what prevents premature wear and failure of the valve guides, valve springs, and rocker arm faces. It takes time to set geometry right, I know I fought with it for a few days before making my own shims. Hope this helps.
@@JWClassicVW So, just to reiterate if you're using 1:1 rockers you want to measure from the top of the pushrod tube cup correct? Also, if you measure on one cylinder then that one measurement should be good for the rest of the cylinders or should you do this with each valve on each cylinder? Thanks for the video I have learned much.
Good morning from Canada Well, I'm going to dispute that link's information. What they did in that article was transfer factory rocker geometry logic, from an oem 1:1 adjuster on the valve end, to the 1.4 pushrod rockers end. Which basically just aligns the pushrod to the adjuster. That does absolutely ZERO to create proper rocker arm geometry. True and proper rocker arm geometry .... is when the rocker-arm is at half-lift ... the top of the valve tip (or lash-cap) is absolutely straight centered to the center of the rocker-shaft's center-line. And to achieve that, you will need to shim the rocker's mounting blocks.
I've read a lot about how with these pushrod end adjuster rockers it is Important that at half lift the adjusting screw is in line with the pushrod and not at a different angle. Is this true?
Yes this is very true and falls into the side play adjustment being correct. I'll be going over this at some point in the 40hp build once I get a chance to pick up the heads... lol
I'm running the Eagle 2288 from CB performance and after I decked my case there was no shimming required to get the 9:1 Commpression ratio I was looking for.
Thanks for the info, I have question though? What do you do if your exhaust valve is sunk into the head more than the inlet? Meaning, the valve stems are different heights so you will have different geometry for each. Do you use a lash cap on one to even the heights of the valves or have 2 different pushrod sizes?
Hey Sam, thanks for the comment brother! As for a sunken vavle that's not normal, the vavle seat will require repair and or replace the head depending on any damage. I would take it to a VW shop and have them take a look.
@@JWClassicVW I have had the heads rebuilt and looked over from someone who knows what there doing. The only way to fix it properly is to remove the seat and reinstall it, but being that everything else was in spec and we are only using the standard cam it wasn t worth the extra cost.
Deck height is checked when the piston is at TDC, there is a tool used at the top of the piston that is torqued down into place. The tool has a set screw that can be used or I use a micrometer. I did a video on calculating compression ratio where I show how to do this. ua-cam.com/video/LxphmKQIr0Y/v-deo.html
I came back to rewatch this video.. Im not convince that my geometery is spot on.. I did solid shafts, 1.25 rockers, stock pushrods and cb swivel feet adjusters.. I have the shafts shimmed up alot because the swivels are long.. When i go half lift, the rocker is still alittle high on the valve side / low on the pushrod side.. Im not sure if i need to keep shimming the shafts more
Hey brother it is always important to make sure you are starting with the basics in valve geometry. 1. Know your CAM and where it should be at full lift. 2. Make sure the swivel feet are sitting just off there fully backed out location. 3. Use the Top of the Head as a reference point for level at half lift. Rotate the engine over a few times to watch the valve operation and record the lift being provided. Is it close to what it should be? Now check for parallel to the head surface at half lift. If it's not even on the valve side you probably need shorter push rods. Try adding more shim but pay attention to you lift... if your losing lift then you have shimmed to high.
@@JWClassicVW ok..i think i may swap back the stock adjusters.. I believe i have to much shims and i did measure less lift. I should of done shorter pushrods 😣
Well thats about right for 1.25:1 rockers... hmmm are you just now setting it up? Have you already done the Valve geometry and cut the pushrods? Pretty interesting article right here. a-dingli.tripod.com/bolt-on_ratio_rockers.htm
JW Classic VW thanks for the reply. I thought the same thing!! Sounds exactly like 1.25s! I am on a stock cam could it be the wear on the cam? Ran the part number. They are 1.4s
JW Classic VW I’ve tried it at .015, .030, and .060. I haven’t really played with shims I though you did that second. Could that be why I am loosing so much lift?
@@TheDrivingFool yes sir... Add shims to get closer to the 400 point with lift, then you'll check the geometry at half lift with an adjustable pushrod. Your going to end up cutting the pushrods down.
@@JWClassicVW think you would be pleasantly surprised at corvairs high quality engineering and metallurgy . They are not a VW clone at all. GM engineered the engine from scratch in anticipation of a mini helicopter engine contract. Which didn't happen so they went to economy car market with the engine. About the only way to kill a corvair engine is too run it out of oil. And many are the times I did as a young man because the then rubber push rod seals would fail. But that same engine is still runable and he sitting in the back 61 coupe.. With the modern seal material that issue went away. They are built with forged steel cranks stock. Vibration dampener and standard GM hydrolic lifters and tappers. No valve adjust issues. No oil passage mods needed Plus the well known to smooth ness of 6 cylinders natural balance. Some folks will modify with the larger oversize VW barells and pistons. They corvair engine is highly prized for direct drive experimental aircraft use. Most corvair aircraft apps produce 100 HP # 3200 RPM and cruise at 2800 rpm at 80 percent power. The corvair is an eazy engine to work on once you get the tin ware removed. Happy thanks giving to you.
Be Sure to ***LIKE, SHARE, & SUBSCRIBE*** and as always thank you everyone for all the support!!!
Like Share Subscribe!!!! ✌😎✌
Great job explaining this Jason. Nice to learn some tricks of the trade! You are really good at breaking things down. Thanks for the shout out too! Let's do that interview brother.
I'm down man... PM me and we can work out the details brother. And as always thanks for being here man!
Good job explaining things
Thanks man!!
Yeah my Tourqe Wrench is In Newton Meters too , Pawn Shop hey Nice Score Bro , Love ya bench too
Great Vid Bro Very helpful, Cheers my man
Thanks from Brazil! Great help!
Happy to help!
I've watched some other videos on this topic but this is the first time it actually made sense to me so thanks!
Glad to hear it man, setting up valve geo can be a little difficult to do but is super important!
G'day Kevin from Australia. I'm really loving your channel the knowledge your sharing with us is really appreciated. ✌
Thank you Kevin!! I'm glad you are liking the channel... I make these for all of you!!
Great video man! Very interesting and detailed!
Thanks CT... glad you liked it!!
Im going through this in about a week or so but ill have the 1.25s.. You made it very clear and good tips 👍
Be sure to reach out if you have any issues setting it up brother! Glad you liked the video!
@@JWClassicVW i definitely will ✌✌
Really enjoy the videos. Thanks.
Thanks brother!! Glad you are enjoying them!
Super 👍
gotta check that geometry middle between top and bottom.
Yes sir... did all kinda research on getting this set up right!
Ottima spiegazione
Awesome!
Hay Jason what is the benefit for solid shaft rockers as appose to standard and when would they be required , I don’t want to assume. Thanks .
Don’t worry I saw your other video , I understand thanks
Hi Jason, one question, you mentioned the 60thousands at the valve spring, is that measurement between the spring coils?
Yes, measuring coil bind. If it's to tight you'll break the spring.
@@JWClassicVW ok, that's what I thought but wasn't sure....thnx bro much appreciated!!
Good info. 👍
Thank you... glad you liked it!!!
I have a question... This video contradicts your first video on this topic. at the 16:17 mark your measuring at the top of the pushrod tube cup, but in your first video your measuring at the base of the pushrod tube cup (13:46). Which is correct? Id the base is correct your off almost a 1/4" on this one.
Hey what's going on brother, yeah I can see were it seems like the information may be a bit confusing... the big difference here it the type of rocker arm being used. Depending on the rocker arm set up such as with these two examples 1:1 and 1:4 the position of the push-rods is a little bit different in relation to the rocker arm adjuster. This is the reason for the information appearing to be different. What your looking for according to the great Pat Downs from CB Performance with 1:4 ratio rockers is " at half-lift, the pushrod should be straight in-line with the valve adjusting screw. If it is not, remove the pushrod and adjust the length until the pushrod and valve adjusting screw form a straight line (at half-lift).
Good Article: www.cbperformance.com/Articles.asp?ID=263
With both of these videos, I was trying to give reference points to check the valve balance, at half lift you want an even balance between the valve face and the pushrod. This balance is what prevents premature wear and failure of the valve guides, valve springs, and rocker arm faces. It takes time to set geometry right, I know I fought with it for a few days before making my own shims. Hope this helps.
@@JWClassicVW So, just to reiterate if you're using 1:1 rockers you want to measure from the top of the pushrod tube cup correct? Also, if you measure on one cylinder then that one measurement should be good for the rest of the cylinders or should you do this with each valve on each cylinder? Thanks for the video I have learned much.
Good morning from Canada
Well, I'm going to dispute that link's information.
What they did in that article was transfer factory rocker geometry logic, from an oem 1:1 adjuster on the valve end, to the 1.4 pushrod rockers end.
Which basically just aligns the pushrod to the adjuster.
That does absolutely ZERO to create proper rocker arm geometry.
True and proper rocker arm geometry .... is when the rocker-arm is at half-lift ... the top of the valve tip (or lash-cap) is absolutely straight centered to the center of the rocker-shaft's center-line. And to achieve that, you will need to shim the rocker's mounting blocks.
How did you determine the shim thickness below the rocker?
Trial and error... just kept adding until the geometry was right and my coil bind was within spec.
@@JWClassicVW yes, I must have missed that. I watched another video and the light came on…lol
Just take your time brother... you 4 sure want to make sure it is right.
I've read a lot about how with these pushrod end adjuster rockers it is Important that at half lift the adjusting screw is in line with the pushrod and not at a different angle. Is this true?
Yes this is very true and falls into the side play adjustment being correct. I'll be going over this at some point in the 40hp build once I get a chance to pick up the heads... lol
Hey bro, I bought the same dial indicator you use from amazon, where did you get the m8 to m10 adapter?
Or should I ask how did you attach the dial indicator bar to the head or head bolt?
Second question, can you do a video using the black marker to center the high lift rockers to the center of the valve cap?
😀
typical vw money pit, luv ya!
LOL... Yes sir you know it!
What cam do you run? Also when you built your motor what kind of shimming did you end up with on your barrels?
I'm running the Eagle 2288 from CB performance and after I decked my case there was no shimming required to get the 9:1 Commpression ratio I was looking for.
Thanks for the info, I have question though? What do you do if your exhaust valve is sunk into the head more than the inlet? Meaning, the valve stems are different heights so you will have different geometry for each. Do you use a lash cap on one to even the heights of the valves or have 2 different pushrod sizes?
Hey Sam, thanks for the comment brother! As for a sunken vavle that's not normal, the vavle seat will require repair and or replace the head depending on any damage. I would take it to a VW shop and have them take a look.
@@JWClassicVW I have had the heads rebuilt and looked over from someone who knows what there doing. The only way to fix it properly is to remove the seat and reinstall it, but being that everything else was in spec and we are only using the standard cam it wasn t worth the extra cost.
how do you check your deck height
Deck height is checked when the piston is at TDC, there is a tool used at the top of the piston that is torqued down into place. The tool has a set screw that can be used or I use a micrometer. I did a video on calculating compression ratio where I show how to do this.
ua-cam.com/video/LxphmKQIr0Y/v-deo.html
I came back to rewatch this video.. Im not convince that my geometery is spot on.. I did solid shafts, 1.25 rockers, stock pushrods and cb swivel feet adjusters.. I have the shafts shimmed up alot because the swivels are long.. When i go half lift, the rocker is still alittle high on the valve side / low on the pushrod side.. Im not sure if i need to keep shimming the shafts more
Hey brother it is always important to make sure you are starting with the basics in valve geometry.
1. Know your CAM and where it should be at full lift.
2. Make sure the swivel feet are sitting just off there fully backed out location.
3. Use the Top of the Head as a reference point for level at half lift.
Rotate the engine over a few times to watch the valve operation and record the lift being provided. Is it close to what it should be? Now check for parallel to the head surface at half lift. If it's not even on the valve side you probably need shorter push rods. Try adding more shim but pay attention to you lift... if your losing lift then you have shimmed to high.
@@JWClassicVW ok..i think i may swap back the stock adjusters.. I believe i have to much shims and i did measure less lift. I should of done shorter pushrods 😣
@@VWRICH23 no worries brother, all about learning 👌
I have 1.4s on a stock cam and I am only getting .360 at full lift...makes NO sense to me :(
Well thats about right for 1.25:1 rockers... hmmm are you just now setting it up? Have you already done the Valve geometry and cut the pushrods? Pretty interesting article right here.
a-dingli.tripod.com/bolt-on_ratio_rockers.htm
JW Classic VW thanks for the reply. I thought the same thing!! Sounds exactly like 1.25s! I am on a stock cam could it be the wear on the cam? Ran the part number. They are 1.4s
@@TheDrivingFool That would be some crazy wear... was there any spring binding at full lift? What was the shim # for the rocker base?
JW Classic VW I’ve tried it at .015, .030, and .060. I haven’t really played with shims I though you did that second. Could that be why I am loosing so much lift?
@@TheDrivingFool yes sir... Add shims to get closer to the 400 point with lift, then you'll check the geometry at half lift with an adjustable pushrod. Your going to end up cutting the pushrods down.
Best way to address the pletherm of VW engine building problems is to go corvair.
Lol... never really messed with one.
@@JWClassicVW think you would be pleasantly surprised at corvairs high quality engineering and metallurgy . They are not a VW clone at all. GM engineered the engine from scratch in anticipation of a mini helicopter engine contract. Which didn't happen so they went to economy car market with the engine. About the only way to kill a corvair engine is too run it out of oil. And many are the times I did as a young man because the then rubber push rod seals would fail. But that same engine is still runable and he sitting in the back 61 coupe.. With the modern seal material that issue went away. They are built with forged steel cranks stock. Vibration dampener and standard GM hydrolic lifters and tappers. No valve adjust issues. No oil passage mods needed Plus the well known to smooth ness of 6 cylinders natural balance. Some folks will modify with the larger oversize VW barells and pistons. They corvair engine is highly prized for direct drive experimental aircraft use. Most corvair aircraft apps produce 100 HP # 3200 RPM and cruise at 2800 rpm at 80 percent power. The corvair is an eazy engine to work on once you get the tin ware removed. Happy thanks giving to you.
Love all types of Air-Cooled engines... I'll take a look... did you know Ford also aided in the design of the LS.
@@JWClassicVW no didn't know ford was involved.