Ape, I have to commend you sir. I recenlty passed my extra, and I'll be honest 99% of the material is over my head and I defaulted to memorization of the answers. I did really well on the exam (49/50), but still can't grasp most of the covered concepts. With you, I have been slowly having more and more, "Ah-Hah" moments when things are starting to click! Keep up the great work!
Good stuff Mr. The Smokin Ape, thanks for sharing another very interesting and informative video. I always look forward to your videos because I learn so much from you.
Thanks for continuing to Spread The Word! Here’s my Literal Technical breakdown on Antenna’s, Feedline, Tuner’s and other matching circuits/components (based upon my readings of ARRL Publications back in the 70’s, and to date)… and the disagreements inherent in there use/misuse today... The Antenna is the Radiating (and intentionally added reflecting / directing when appropriate) element(s) that shapes its Radiation (/Reception) Pattern. You “Tune” an antenna by making its physical characteristics Resonant to a ¼, ½… wavelength before its feedpoint connects to attached or external Impedance Matching Device like a Balun or “Tuner”, or length of feedline (impedance transforming or not). If impedance matching is designed into the physical “antenna’s” design, as with a Yagi, G5RV... its an Antenna System (radiator(s) + additional impedance matching circuit(s)). IF the Antenna is Not sized in this way its NonResonant and therefore Does Not Need “Tuning”, it needs its Impedance Matched to the feedline and/or radio’s Impedance. NOTE: The G5RV “Antenna” is based upon the 102’ NonResonant flattop design that was used for years before Louis Varney added the feedline impedance matching section for Coax’s impedance that made it even more popular as a System. The term “Antenna Tuner” as typically used is a misnomer for an Adjustable Impedance Matching circuit. It in no way “Tune’s” an antenna. It could be said to make your antenna In Tune (as “In Harmony”) with your radio if you want to be Philosophical, not Technical, but I’m not naval gazing here. An UNUN is used to Transform the Impedance of an Unbalanced antenna to an Unbalanced feedline. A BALUN is used to Transform the Impedance of a Balanced antenna to an Unbalanced feedline. Your Feedline connects your antenna to your radio, and is Only part of the Antenna when it Radiates Signal changing/affecting the antenna elements Radiation Pattern, Unintentionally (like with CMC (common mode current)) or Intentionally (like by using a Current Choke at a distance from the feedpoint to Counterpoise your antenna (think an endfed’s counterpoise)). Your Feedline Is a part of the Antenna System as it can change the impedance's seen at the radio based upon its length and the frequency's of operation. The Antenna System consists of all of the Above (and other things not mentioned, external to the radio) that couples/connects, modifies, and/or radiates your signal after the radio itself. Confusion and disagreements come from Not using these Terms as Standardized. IOW Hams are usually arguing Definitions NOT Technical Issues. And that’s a shame. 73 mike Philosophical section… Dubito, Ergo Cogito, Ergo Sum. (I Doubt, Therefore I Think, Therefore I Am.) - Descartes
Ape, Great stuff here. Even though this is a technical discussion regarding a trans-match (ATU), you kept it very simple to understand. Thanks for your efforts and research on this subject. I just finished reading two books on impedance matching. You hit the nail right on the head. Bravo!
Thanks. I've been working thru a lot of your videos, they help to clarify and reinforce what I'm learning as I progress up the Ham food chain! 🙂Currently studying for my General and enjoying my Tech privileges!
Ape, A lot of this sort of thing comes from way back in the days of valve (tube) radios that were used on HF frequencies. Resonant antennas were extremely important, as they were not as forgiving as solid-state RF final amplifiers. You would have to tune your antenna and your final amp to prevent damage to your expensive Drake or whatever HF rig. Modern solid state transceivers just shut down with High SWR. I remember using an old HF rig in 1988 and all of a sudden, it was like a bullet went through the two final amp valves, after I'd changed bands and forgot to trim the grid voltage/current thing. Top video, mate.
Hey Mike, I don't disagree. Sometimes I think we might need to filter some of the older info based off technology changes. Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍
I think you have this completely backwards. Valve output stages and components are LESS likely to suffer damage than solid state ones. Initially, back in the day of thermionic radio, nobody even KNEW what their VSWR was, they didnt have VSWR meters, probably just an RF ammeter to maximise current in to the feed line. but more likely just went for anode dip and then max load on the output tank. The old tune and load controls of a valve TX had a range of antenna impedances they would have been able to match with. With solid state and the broadband-no-tune matching concept they implement, this "retune it for every new frequency" requirement disappeared, removing the matching option, it was 50 ohms antennas or nothing! If you did have high mismatch in a valve PA, and lets say it resulted in high voltages being reflected back, over voltage would often result in arcing that would NOT be destructive. The operator now has an indication that all is not well and can do something about it. In a solid state PA, if you exceeded the device breakdown voltage - POP! no more transistor, just a silicon blob. Early solid state TXs that ran on 12V often had absolute max voltage rating of 18V or so. You didnt need much reflected voltage to exceed that, and it was ALWAYS destructive. More modern solid state device are far more rugged and manufacturers boast infinite VSWR handling. Bottom line is, valves and their output circuit can handle some arcing(within reason), transistors die.
Love your intro. I agree as a new technician ham I deserve a quality,fun filled and fulfilling experience. I demand satisfaction and by golly I will have it! 73 😅
Love my LDG-AT100ProII. It's a must have Tool if you work with Multi Band Antennas which are non resonant. Tnx for the Video, Ape. Happy Sunday & 73 de Your Friend Uncle Günter 🙋♂
with a resonant antenna say 22m long put a 49:1 on it tune to 1:1 on 40m and the bands are stacked so any interferance created land on a higher band ,but you can use 20 up to 10 without an atu so you get no loss in using the atu ,i admit the wark bands are slightly out but a variable capacitor can remedy that but that is why the bands are set that way so yes my 49:1 is a resonant multi band 40-10m antenna
Hmmmm just ordered one a week ago, tossed up which one to get. LDG or MFJ ? After much faffing about pulled the trigger on a MFJ 993b, after advice from other hams. Just hoping it does the business. A bit of quality control before firing it up. 😂 cheers for this video
Just to clarify, is it better to have the tuner in the shack, or remote (right before the antenna)? It would seem to be better in the shack to avoid any line complications that may exist if the tuner was right at the antenna input. Thanks.
Hey MrCoog. It's probably 6 on one and half dozen of another, each has it pros and cons. That said, I use tuners in the shack... perhaps I would do something different if I was running a big contest station and wanted to squeeze out every bit of efficiency.
When you tack (add) on a stretch of coax to mate up with your switch, you may be "tuning" the coax. To test that theory, replace the switch with a female to female barrel connector and see if you have similar results with the switch being in there. If it's not the same thing as having the switch, the impedance on the switch isn't 50 ohms.
I like resonant aerials, 5 h/b attic dipoles for 20m to 10m and h/b outdoor 60m inverted vee squashed into my tiny garden. Indoor h/b 2 element collinear for 2m. For lower frequencies I made an indoor Joystick copy with 26' of wire and an MFJ 160-10 tuner so the single wire goes straight into the tuner SO239 socket. I was given the tuner as not working, one re-soldered joint needed.The tuner MAKES the system work. Like if you had a centre or base coil loaded vertical to MAKE it work but I'd prefer resonant aerials, coils don't radiate well. Resonant aerials must be more efficient. G4GHB.
@@TheSmokinApe My pal didn't spot it because the tap on the coil was close but not quite touching the coil. I only found it by poking around with my finger. 73.
What is SWR? Standing Wave Ratio is a ratio. It's a ratio of the maximum power standing along the line to the minimum along the line. That's all it is. What is Reflected Power? It's a misnomer. Power doesn't go up or down the coax. Power is dissipated in the resistivity of the wires in the transmission lines, resistivity of the antennas, and hopefully the radiation resistance. Reflected power creates the SWR, but it is not SWR. Trees create apples, but trees aren't apples. Power only exists where it's dissipated. Voltages and currents travel up and down the coax. What is a resonate antenna? It's an antenna that, at a specific frequency, has it's inductive reactances canceled by the capacitive reactances. You will experience a 2:1 SWR with a resonate 100 ohm antenna in a 50 ohm antenna system. Matched Antenna? A resonate antenna where the antenna radiation resistance and resistive losses add up to the antenna system impedance. Remote ATU's are used to tune the antennas because ATU's only tune antennas. If you have a lot of uncancelled reactances on your antenna, then your ATU at the transmitter will tune your transmission line and antenna into one big antenna. The antenna with reactances will create an AC power factor like a big 'o AC motor. Capacitors are used on large motors to cancel the inductances and put more power into the motor by getting the current and voltage in phase. We need to do that at the antenna feedpoint to make the antenna dissipate maximum power into space and make more contacts. The diagram you show pretending there's a 2:1 SWR shows the antenna with the mismatch. Here's what happens. In an ideal world with a 2:1 SWR, you have a 50 ohm transmitter and a 100 ohm resonate antenna, 50 + 100 = 150. If we have an internal RF voltage source of 141V then 141/150=0.94A. I squared R = 88.36W. If we have a 50 ohm resonant antenna, that 141V reference voltage gets dropped over 100 ohms. 50 ohm antenna and a 50 ohm radio. No transmission line here. 141 divided by 100 ohms is now 1.41A. 1.41 squared multiplied by that 50 ohm antenna is just almost 100W. So that's about a 0.54 dB offset. This is where our reflected power exists. This is where we don't use a tuner. When you use a tuner, and it's tuned for a perfect match, there are no reflected waves. The coax will radiate to make up the difference but there's no back and forth bouncing. The back and forth bouncing has everything to do with not having a tuner in there. You are improving and you have a lot to learn yet, SA. I'm cutting this short. I've got pets to take care of and I need to enjoy my Sunday.
@@paulm0hpd319 thank you for your kind response. Think about it. If you have a coax cable feeding a dipole and the antenna is perfectly matched to the 50 ohm coax, your antenna would be an ideal 50+j0 impedance. Would your coax radiate? There are no absolutes here, but essentially, no. The current in the center conductor cancel out with the current in the outer conductor. 180 degrees out of phase. Now, take two strips of coax and solder the inner conductor with the outer conductor. Replace the dipole elements with the coax stretches and load that baby up. In this instance, our currents are in phase at every point along these pieces of coax. This is actually common mode currents. Not all that "It's flowing along the outside of your feed line" baloney. Here we see that the new dipole elements are radiating. I think this is self evident. So, if we have a non resonant antenna, that means we have a non zero j factor. Again, there are no absolutes here, only tolerances. Think about a 175⁰ offset in your currents feed line. Not much radiation from that feed line. Think about the antenna j factor shifting the phase more and more. You ask, "How the heck am I shifting this f eedline phase?" With a tuner at the transmitter. So you shift that phase more and more. 125⁰, 90⁰, 45⁰... You approach that 0⁰. Do you think that when you hit 0⁰ it would instantly start to radiate, or do you think that it gradually increases transmission line radiation throughout this phase shift imaginary experiment? This is the basis of the thought between the debate, "Does the tuner tune the antenna at the transmitter or does it match the whole system?" Now you know.
Bwahahaha... It still blows my mind watching other tubers doing FT8 while jawing on a live stream in chat. Its real ham radio absolutely, but Joe Taylor did the heavy lifting and its not in my wheelhouse while band conditions warrant human voices and the challenge of doing so much skilled labor to get heard and hear through so much QSB. Many of us worked hard at CW to earn the Phone privileges and SSB contacts. Im looking forward to learning JT65 and getting an EME someday. I think WSJTX and other modes are a godsend for new hams especially but its low hanging fruit or as some say "easy pickins" Getting an SSB Hawaiian qso at s1 signal inside the contest noise last night is my best contact this year. It took patience and lots of tweaking stuff. 🎉😊🎉
@@radiotestsI haven't touched anything apart from voice. More and more, I'm getting into portable operating, so I'm looking at trying something like FT8.
THANKS Ape! 1st for not trying to sell anything but common sense brother! And thank you for not absurdly proposing reflect combines to increase my power output.... thats flat earth talkin crazy stuff. Or they been smoking the heavy ganja. Im old and lazy so my antennas are mostly not resonated for anything but absolute non resonant... an inverted L random wire that tunes up from 160 to 10m FM. Its at a height to let me get local skip at 40, DX at all the WARC and 20. My logic comes from physics and my lil ol tuner in the 991a gets me 80 watts before losses. Into LMR 600 and a good 4 to 1 UNUN. Thats from ciphering and great charts made with math, loving 86' with 25' up going N-S. 80 flat wont tune...suspect its from math. My logbook proves the math and physics just like you said and if the flat resonators object they can dig up Maxwell and Kirchoff and argue with their corpses. Opinions are like flatulence. We all have them and they all stink. Yet the hobby breeds the fools and trolls and the growing breed of salesmen disguising greed as hobby helping videos. You are an absolute rockstar and because of your integrity I would trust any buying advice, or mostly as you offer building advice. Tip of the hat to best tuber in the hobby. My used 949e is coming, paid 70 bucks and will watch your videos to understand it. We trust you brother! Craig
@radiotests,if it's the same video I've watched recently where the chap mentioned that reflected wave adds to the forward wave ,there's much truth in what he says ,think many have misunderstood his video
That Florida guy is a total wack job. If he found a way to add the power from the reflected power, he should apply for the Nobel prize for science. That's truly earth shaking.
Ape, I have to commend you sir. I recenlty passed my extra, and I'll be honest 99% of the material is over my head and I defaulted to memorization of the answers. I did really well on the exam (49/50), but still can't grasp most of the covered concepts. With you, I have been slowly having more and more, "Ah-Hah" moments when things are starting to click! Keep up the great work!
Hey Justin, glad to hear the videos are helping you out! That's why I make them 👍
Awesome info on SWR! It was confusing to me when I first got my license, but over the years I understand it better. 73!
Thanks for watching bro!
Solid work, cited sources, not FUD off the internet. Good work, son!
I try, thanks for watching FEP 👍
You (yet again) are at the rescue of a new HAM YL...thank you for this video!
Thanks Melissa, glad it was helpful 👍
Some more great info Ape, keep up the good work!
Thanks Chuck 👍
I just picked up a FC-50 at ham fest yesterday for $200 for my FT-891 just an addition to my two LDG tuners
Nice, I like the hamfest flea markets…. You can always find something 👍
LOL, I always liked to say the G90 is an amazing tuner with a 20W radio. Great explanations and overviews, Ape.
Thanks Mike
Nice work Sir Ape. I am one of them there ladder line users, I like tuners that take the open line directly.
Hey LC. Do you make your own feeder line?
Another great video! Always enjoy watching your stuff. 73! 😎
Thanks man, glad you like them 👍
Good stuff Mr. The Smokin Ape, thanks for sharing another very interesting and informative video. I always look forward to your videos because I learn so much from you.
Hey Bob, glad they are helpful. Thank you for watching 👍
Thanks for continuing to Spread The Word!
Here’s my Literal Technical breakdown on Antenna’s, Feedline, Tuner’s and other matching circuits/components (based upon my readings of ARRL Publications back in the 70’s, and to date)… and the disagreements inherent in there use/misuse today...
The Antenna is the Radiating (and intentionally added reflecting / directing when appropriate) element(s) that shapes its Radiation (/Reception) Pattern.
You “Tune” an antenna by making its physical characteristics Resonant to a ¼, ½… wavelength before its feedpoint connects to attached or external Impedance Matching Device like a Balun or “Tuner”, or length of feedline (impedance transforming or not). If impedance matching is designed into the physical “antenna’s” design, as with a Yagi, G5RV... its an Antenna System (radiator(s) + additional impedance matching circuit(s)).
IF the Antenna is Not sized in this way its NonResonant and therefore Does Not Need “Tuning”, it needs its Impedance Matched to the feedline and/or radio’s Impedance.
NOTE: The G5RV “Antenna” is based upon the 102’ NonResonant flattop design that was used for years before Louis Varney added the feedline impedance matching section for Coax’s impedance that made it even more popular as a System.
The term “Antenna Tuner” as typically used is a misnomer for an Adjustable Impedance Matching circuit. It in no way “Tune’s” an antenna. It could be said to make your antenna In Tune (as “In Harmony”) with your radio if you want to be Philosophical, not Technical, but I’m not naval gazing here.
An UNUN is used to Transform the Impedance of an Unbalanced antenna to an Unbalanced feedline.
A BALUN is used to Transform the Impedance of a Balanced antenna to an Unbalanced feedline.
Your Feedline connects your antenna to your radio, and is Only part of the Antenna when it Radiates Signal changing/affecting the antenna elements Radiation Pattern, Unintentionally (like with CMC (common mode current)) or Intentionally (like by using a Current Choke at a distance from the feedpoint to Counterpoise your antenna (think an endfed’s counterpoise)). Your Feedline Is a part of the Antenna System as it can change the impedance's seen at the radio based upon its length and the frequency's of operation.
The Antenna System consists of all of the Above (and other things not mentioned, external to the radio) that couples/connects, modifies, and/or radiates your signal after the radio itself.
Confusion and disagreements come from Not using these Terms as Standardized. IOW Hams are usually arguing Definitions NOT Technical Issues. And that’s a shame.
73 mike
Philosophical section… Dubito, Ergo Cogito, Ergo Sum.
(I Doubt, Therefore I Think, Therefore I Am.) - Descartes
Thanks for the info Mike, and I agree... we get hung up on the words and not the concept. 👍
Thank you so much The Smokin Ape! I really enjoy your videos!
Thank you, I’m glad you like them 👍
I appreciate how these videos are super informative and well-delivered, while still containing subtle humor.
Thank you for watching, glad you like them 👍
Another very informative video. Mr. Ape. Thank you for creating and posting it.
Thanks for watching Bill, glad you liked it 👍
Awesome video! Thank you, sir. This came at the perfect time for me!
Glad it was helpful 👍
Nicely done Ape! Well explained and your dry sense of humour would go down a storm here in the UK. Best 73.
Thanks Ace, glad you liked it 👍
Ape,
Great stuff here. Even though this is a technical discussion regarding a trans-match (ATU), you kept it very simple to understand. Thanks for your efforts and research on this subject. I just finished reading two books on impedance matching. You hit the nail right on the head. Bravo!
Glad you liked it, thanks for watching NJ4Z
Thanks. I've been working thru a lot of your videos, they help to clarify and reinforce what I'm learning as I progress up the Ham food chain! 🙂Currently studying for my General and enjoying my Tech privileges!
Hey SlooDon, glad you like the videos and good luck on the test!
Ape,
A lot of this sort of thing comes from way back in the days of valve (tube) radios that were used on HF frequencies.
Resonant antennas were extremely important, as they were not as forgiving as solid-state RF final amplifiers.
You would have to tune your antenna and your final amp to prevent damage to your expensive Drake or whatever HF rig.
Modern solid state transceivers just shut down with High SWR.
I remember using an old HF rig in 1988 and all of a sudden, it was like a bullet went through the two final amp valves, after I'd changed bands and forgot to trim the grid voltage/current thing.
Top video, mate.
Hey Mike, I don't disagree. Sometimes I think we might need to filter some of the older info based off technology changes. Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍
I think you have this completely backwards. Valve output stages and components are LESS likely to suffer damage than solid state ones. Initially, back in the day of thermionic radio, nobody even KNEW what their VSWR was, they didnt have VSWR meters, probably just an RF ammeter to maximise current in to the feed line. but more likely just went for anode dip and then max load on the output tank. The old tune and load controls of a valve TX had a range of antenna impedances they would have been able to match with. With solid state and the broadband-no-tune matching concept they implement, this "retune it for every new frequency" requirement disappeared, removing the matching option, it was 50 ohms antennas or nothing! If you did have high mismatch in a valve PA, and lets say it resulted in high voltages being reflected back, over voltage would often result in arcing that would NOT be destructive. The operator now has an indication that all is not well and can do something about it. In a solid state PA, if you exceeded the device breakdown voltage - POP! no more transistor, just a silicon blob. Early solid state TXs that ran on 12V often had absolute max voltage rating of 18V or so. You didnt need much reflected voltage to exceed that, and it was ALWAYS destructive. More modern solid state device are far more rugged and manufacturers boast infinite VSWR handling. Bottom line is, valves and their output circuit can handle some arcing(within reason), transistors die.
Very, very good info
Thanks for watching 👍
Just started using ladder line. Made a 1:1 Guanella (Choke) Balun to use with my tuner. Works great! Now, off to read that article!
Hey SF, I keep telling myself that I am going to ladder line!
Don't catch a case of Guanellrhia.
@@BusDriverRFI 👀
Good video, as usual. Thank you!
Thanks for watching Rich 👍
Thanks! Great video!
Glad you liked it, thanks for watching Tru 👍
Big thumbs up for this. I for one call these matching units or make my radio happy.
👍
Love your intro. I agree as a new technician ham I deserve a quality,fun filled and fulfilling experience. I demand satisfaction and by golly I will have it! 73 😅
lol, thanks for watching Lonnie 👍
Love my LDG-AT100ProII. It's a must have Tool if you work with Multi Band Antennas which are non resonant. Tnx for the Video, Ape. Happy Sunday & 73 de Your Friend Uncle Günter 🙋♂
Hey Gunter. They are great tuners, I got mine originally to use with a 9:1 end fed. Thanks for watching 👍
with a resonant antenna say 22m long put a 49:1 on it tune to 1:1 on 40m and the bands are stacked so any interferance created land on a higher band ,but you can use 20 up to 10 without an atu so you get no loss in using the atu ,i admit the wark bands are slightly out but a variable capacitor can remedy that but that is why the bands are set that way so yes my 49:1 is a resonant multi band 40-10m antenna
I used a 49:1 EFHW for a few years and really liked it but have been using a vertical lately.
Hmmmm just ordered one a week ago, tossed up which one to get. LDG or MFJ ? After much faffing about pulled the trigger on a MFJ 993b, after advice from other hams. Just hoping it does the business. A bit of quality control before firing it up. 😂 cheers for this video
Nice tuner, hope it works well for you. Thanks for watching!
I have one, got it over 10 years ago, hammered the crap out of it the entire time. Still runs fine, if you get a good one it stays good. 😬
@@GoonyMclinux 👍
Just to clarify, is it better to have the tuner in the shack, or remote (right before the antenna)? It would seem to be better in the shack to avoid any line complications that may exist if the tuner was right at the antenna input. Thanks.
Hey MrCoog. It's probably 6 on one and half dozen of another, each has it pros and cons. That said, I use tuners in the shack... perhaps I would do something different if I was running a big contest station and wanted to squeeze out every bit of efficiency.
Thank you. Like your videos, great, straight answer and very helpful. Keep up the good work
@@TheSmokinApe
I always found the answer in my current ham radio budget. 😂
👍
Good info Ape!
Thanks BA 👍
Why would an SWR meter reading be lower and closer to 1:1 when a coax switch is put between the SWR meter and the outgoing coax to the antenna?
You are changing the overall impedance in the antenna system 👍
When you tack (add) on a stretch of coax to mate up with your switch, you may be "tuning" the coax. To test that theory, replace the switch with a female to female barrel connector and see if you have similar results with the switch being in there. If it's not the same thing as having the switch, the impedance on the switch isn't 50 ohms.
@BusDriverRFI It is an MFJ switch so it should be 50 ohms.
@@eem3iii I was giving you an idea on how you could check their claim. If you're not interested in seeing what the issue is, that's fine.
Thanks!
Thank you 👍
👍Thank you sir.
👍🍻
So if an amp is used, where do you put the tuner?
I put mine between the amp and the antenna
I like resonant aerials, 5 h/b attic dipoles for 20m to 10m and h/b outdoor 60m inverted vee squashed into my tiny garden. Indoor h/b 2 element collinear for 2m.
For lower frequencies I made an indoor Joystick copy with 26' of wire and an MFJ 160-10 tuner so the single wire goes straight into the tuner SO239 socket. I was given the tuner as not working, one re-soldered joint needed.The tuner MAKES the system work. Like if you had a centre or base coil loaded vertical to MAKE it work but I'd prefer resonant aerials, coils don't radiate well. Resonant aerials must be more efficient.
G4GHB.
Hey Bill, I would agree that resonate is the way. Nice job fixing the tuner 👍
@@TheSmokinApe My pal didn't spot it because the tap on the coil was close but not quite touching the coil. I only found it by poking around with my finger.
73.
What is SWR? Standing Wave Ratio is a ratio. It's a ratio of the maximum power standing along the line to the minimum along the line. That's all it is.
What is Reflected Power? It's a misnomer. Power doesn't go up or down the coax. Power is dissipated in the resistivity of the wires in the transmission lines, resistivity of the antennas, and hopefully the radiation resistance. Reflected power creates the SWR, but it is not SWR. Trees create apples, but trees aren't apples. Power only exists where it's dissipated. Voltages and currents travel up and down the coax.
What is a resonate antenna? It's an antenna that, at a specific frequency, has it's inductive reactances canceled by the capacitive reactances. You will experience a 2:1 SWR with a resonate 100 ohm antenna in a 50 ohm antenna system.
Matched Antenna? A resonate antenna where the antenna radiation resistance and resistive losses add up to the antenna system impedance.
Remote ATU's are used to tune the antennas because ATU's only tune antennas. If you have a lot of uncancelled reactances on your antenna, then your ATU at the transmitter will tune your transmission line and antenna into one big antenna. The antenna with reactances will create an AC power factor like a big 'o AC motor. Capacitors are used on large motors to cancel the inductances and put more power into the motor by getting the current and voltage in phase. We need to do that at the antenna feedpoint to make the antenna dissipate maximum power into space and make more contacts.
The diagram you show pretending there's a 2:1 SWR shows the antenna with the mismatch. Here's what happens. In an ideal world with a 2:1 SWR, you have a 50 ohm transmitter and a 100 ohm resonate antenna, 50 + 100 = 150. If we have an internal RF voltage source of 141V then 141/150=0.94A. I squared R = 88.36W. If we have a 50 ohm resonant antenna, that 141V reference voltage gets dropped over 100 ohms. 50 ohm antenna and a 50 ohm radio. No transmission line here. 141 divided by 100 ohms is now 1.41A. 1.41 squared multiplied by that 50 ohm antenna is just almost 100W. So that's about a 0.54 dB offset. This is where our reflected power exists. This is where we don't use a tuner. When you use a tuner, and it's tuned for a perfect match, there are no reflected waves. The coax will radiate to make up the difference but there's no back and forth bouncing. The back and forth bouncing has everything to do with not having a tuner in there.
You are improving and you have a lot to learn yet, SA. I'm cutting this short. I've got pets to take care of and I need to enjoy my Sunday.
Take care of the pets BDRFI, thank you for the post... I appreciate the detail and feedback.
You make some good points some I agree with some I don't, 1 I don't is that the coax radiates with reflected power
@@paulm0hpd319 thank you for your kind response.
Think about it. If you have a coax cable feeding a dipole and the antenna is perfectly matched to the 50 ohm coax, your antenna would be an ideal 50+j0 impedance. Would your coax radiate? There are no absolutes here, but essentially, no. The current in the center conductor cancel out with the current in the outer conductor. 180 degrees out of phase.
Now, take two strips of coax and solder the inner conductor with the outer conductor. Replace the dipole elements with the coax stretches and load that baby up. In this instance, our currents are in phase at every point along these pieces of coax. This is actually common mode currents. Not all that "It's flowing along the outside of your feed line" baloney. Here we see that the new dipole elements are radiating. I think this is self evident.
So, if we have a non resonant antenna, that means we have a non zero j factor. Again, there are no absolutes here, only tolerances. Think about a 175⁰ offset in your currents feed line. Not much radiation from that feed line. Think about the antenna j factor shifting the phase more and more. You ask, "How the heck am I shifting this f eedline phase?" With a tuner at the transmitter. So you shift that phase more and more. 125⁰, 90⁰, 45⁰... You approach that 0⁰. Do you think that when you hit 0⁰ it would instantly start to radiate, or do you think that it gradually increases transmission line radiation throughout this phase shift imaginary experiment?
This is the basis of the thought between the debate, "Does the tuner tune the antenna at the transmitter or does it match the whole system?" Now you know.
@@BusDriverRFI matching the impedance has nothing to do with common mode current on the feedline, you have this totally wrong
@@paulm0hpd319 you don't have to think about it. There's no law saying that you have to learn.
High Swr
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Time to go hit the punching bag. lol
It’s all too damn high!
Desperately waiting for FT8 comments......
lol, I’m sure they are coming 👍
Bwahahaha... It still blows my mind watching other tubers doing FT8 while jawing on a live stream in chat. Its real ham radio absolutely, but Joe Taylor did the heavy lifting and its not in my wheelhouse while band conditions warrant human voices and the challenge of doing so much skilled labor to get heard and hear through so much QSB. Many of us worked hard at CW to earn the Phone privileges and SSB contacts. Im looking forward to learning JT65 and getting an EME someday. I think WSJTX and other modes are a godsend for new hams especially but its low hanging fruit or as some say "easy pickins" Getting an SSB Hawaiian qso at s1 signal inside the contest noise last night is my best contact this year. It took patience and lots of tweaking stuff. 🎉😊🎉
@@radiotestsI haven't touched anything apart from voice. More and more, I'm getting into portable operating, so I'm looking at trying something like FT8.
@@TheSmokinApe I'll put it here on the second tier. Tell us how you REALLY feel about FT-8!
I remember years ago when psk31 was ruining ham radio, now it's ft8. 😂
THANKS Ape! 1st for not trying to sell anything but common sense brother! And thank you for not absurdly proposing reflect combines to increase my power output.... thats flat earth talkin crazy stuff. Or they been smoking the heavy ganja.
Im old and lazy so my antennas are mostly not resonated for anything but absolute non resonant... an inverted L random wire that tunes up from 160 to 10m FM. Its at a height to let me get local skip at 40, DX at all the WARC and 20.
My logic comes from physics and my lil ol tuner in the 991a gets me 80 watts before losses. Into LMR 600 and a good 4 to 1 UNUN. Thats from ciphering and great charts made with math, loving 86' with 25' up going N-S. 80 flat wont tune...suspect its from math.
My logbook proves the math and physics just like you said and if the flat resonators object they can dig up Maxwell and Kirchoff and argue with their corpses. Opinions are like flatulence. We all have them and they all stink. Yet the hobby breeds the fools and trolls and the growing breed of salesmen disguising greed as hobby helping videos. You are an absolute rockstar and because of your integrity I would trust any buying advice, or mostly as you offer building advice. Tip of the hat to best tuber in the hobby. My used 949e is coming, paid 70 bucks and will watch your videos to understand it. We trust you brother! Craig
LOL @ the guy saying it would increase power out. Glad you like the videos Rediotests and thank you for the kind words 👍
@radiotests,if it's the same video I've watched recently where the chap mentioned that reflected wave adds to the forward wave ,there's much truth in what he says ,think many have misunderstood his video
That Florida guy is a total wack job. If he found a way to add the power from the reflected power, he should apply for the Nobel prize for science. That's truly earth shaking.
So many factors affecting SWR…
Yeah, can be hard to track a problem down 👍
Rosetta Stone! lol 😂
Right
I would add . A tuner that can handle legal limits should be better made and able to handle more screw ups
Fair point, thank your for the addition.
I don't need any antenna tuners because I only use resonant antennas.
(just messin with you)
😐
I use only the executive branch brand antennas because I like president antennas.
😂😂
Thanks for watching 👍
FT8 operator and ruining ham radio”, 😂
Right 😳
Too damn high!
Right!
Ft8 operater and ruining ham radio. 🤣😂🤣😂👍
lol, thanks for watching Richard 👍