An alternative is an Antuner, an atuomatic tuner sold on Aliexpress for about 100 bucks. has an onboard battery good for about 15 hrs, usb-c charging input. can use at trx or at antenna feedpoint. compact. good for portable work. build quality is good. I have been using mine for about six months. no complaints.
Once again, very helpful demo. I have a very old, maybe 1998 or so, 949 E Deluxe Versa Tuner II collecting dust. I need to get that thing out and see what I can do with it.
Good video tutorial on manual tuners. I picked up a TenTec manual tuner on eBay a while ago and the basic principles of operation are the same. No triggers, but I prefer German Shorthaired Pointer to cats.
It would be a very interesting experiiment to relocate your VNA and tuner to the antenna, omitting the coax cable entirely. This allowes dealing only with the radiator and removes any transmission line effects. It also demonstrates antenna tuner performance as a function of where it is in the signal path.
@@TheSmokinApe At the antenna is the only way I've ever installed commercial radiotelephone station antenna tuners. We tuned the transmitter to a 50 ohm load in the tuner at the end of the transmission line. At this point the far end impedance of the coax is exactly the same as the near end - flat non-reactive 50 ohms. The transmitter controls are not touched after and the settings are fixed for each band of operation. The matching of the transmission line to the radiator is done with auto tuners with presets that don't require the tuner to hunt, of course. In the commercial world the antenna (radiator) begins at the output of the tuner, never at a transmission line. In amateur radio where few people understand first principles the transmission is treated as part of the radiator to be tuned at the transmitter. That has never made any sense to me. Anyway, that is why your instrumentation interested me and why moving it to the radiator end of the coax (transmission line) would be of interest.
I literally just ordered one of these on Monday. I feel like a moron, but previously I ordered the 16010, thinking it was just an ultra compact 200 watt tuner. Because that’s all it says on the case. Nowhere does it say it’s specifically a random wire match. I only found out when looking up the manual to see what the match ratio is, because it was far more difficult to tune than my 941E. I guess I’ll see how the 9201 handles 100 watts FT8, because I do a lot of that. Doesn’t hurt to have a random wire tuner either.
@@forgetyourlife it worked for a few months. It’s just with nearly resonant antennas, or trying to counter a 1:1, it sometimes didn’t have enough capacitance, and 3/4 of the inductance levels were overwhelming. It did work great when I made a completely unhinged 9 band fan dipole. That wasn’t random wire. Just a random mess.
@@AZREDFERNyou can flip flop the input on the 16010 as well. It’s works backwards for higher or lower impedances. Say, if you can’t tune a certain band try switching the antenna and transmitter inputs.
I bought that model - it was damaged on arrival. Capacitor tuning plates were Jammed - to the point where turning the knob stripped the shaft. Returned it next day. First, last, and only time I buy an MFJ product.
I have seen many hams using the MFJ-9201 with 100 watt radios. The variable capacitors are polyvaricon capacitors and they will handle not more than 10 watts SSB, 5 watts CW.
Hi, I have looked forever to find info on using a manual tuner for receive only. We have no carrier to drop. Perhaps you could show how to use a VNA with a tuner to mark our band tune points. As far as I can see you would be the first. Thanks
Just found this video...thinking of getting one of these and mounting it in a pelican case with radio. Wonder if the plastic case of the tuner is necessary?
Great video and so much better than watching cat videos 😂. I’ve had one of these for a while and haven’t used it. Good to see you break it down. 73, Walt
Slow to see this but for the polycon capacitors, technically it's correct. Polycons are rated for upto 100v, which would be 100w... at 1:1SWR, if you were at that why would you be using a tuner anyway? At a 4:1 SWR you will have the same voltages across the antenna loading capacitor at 25w as 100w 1:1. Now add in the buffer for constructive phase voltage (double base voltage) from the standing wave and at 4:1 SWR you could see that 100v max at only 6w. Given this is all for a Hi-Z antenna, if its lo-Z than the overheating from current could be the bigger issue than arching. Either way, I've used these type of caps to tune up to 20w SSB no issue, I would limit 100% duty cycles to
Ape, I've gotta say I like how you tell the whiners to get lost if they can't handle you doing a video and getting a product in return. I can't count how many people I've seen whine about how creators are just "trying to sell stuff". What stuns me is that often they are reviewing something and happen to like its features so they give a positive review and people say they are just trying to sell stuff when in fact they are just reviewing, no more. Whatever happened to critical thinking?
It’s crazy how upset people get over that stuff. I turn down way more stuff than I review because I’m either not interested or the stuff is junk. I also have upset many vendors for giving honest assessments of their products… that said YT is full of shills and yes men you who would sell their souls for an affiliate link. Thanks for watching 👍
nice manual tuner. great way to tune with manual tuner with out transmitting on the air. get your SWR dialed in before transmitting. i do that with my manual tuner. some times under power you have to touch up for lowest point. maybe 100 watt PEP if tuned but not long. that toroid may heat up and or cap arc over. the more out of tune the antenna the harder the tuner needs to work. that why we use a 9:1 or 4:1 is to bring SWR down so easy to tune. that UNUN takes most of the heat. saving it from tuner. I wouldn't use that tuner on FT8 or JS8 call unless 5 watt. and that has been done with a IC 705 and contacts been made QRP. 73's
@@TheSmokinApe plastic and small caps . looks like AM radio ones . some one made a CB antenna tuner out of them and took 12Watt SSB . was the limit on caps.
I'm surprised it doesn't include an inexpensive LED SWR indicator like my ZM-2 from EMTECH. That saves carrying a device to measure SWR. The ZM-2 can also feed balanced or unbalanced lines. This one can't without an external balun.
That SWR indicator is nice--though I did like the look/simplicity of the inside of this device :). The ZM-2 is sweet but looks a mess inside. haha. There are probably cases where this is more efficient than the ZM-2, and vice-versa... but you're right, in that the ZM-2 is more versatile. If I'm not mistaken, ZM-2 is limited to 15w (once tuned), and by my eye, those polyvaricons look to be about similar sized. This probably will handle 100w at certain ideal impedances, and it seems people have done so 'successfully,' but probably not best to press one's luck. Overall, this seems like a decent product.
It's a typo. It had to be 10 watts. If it could handle 100 W they wouldn't call it QRP. That dielectric in those cheap caps can't handle more than 15 or 20 watts before they start arcing. I'd contact MFJ and let them know before someone reads the manual and believes them. If they said the spec was correct I'd make a fun 30 second closeup video with the case open and 95 watts being fed into the capacitors. Probably get a lot of hits. Then I'd replace the caps and know that I'd never hear from MFJ again about a review.
@@TheSmokinApe, thanks. I'll check back and see how it went. Different variable caps can use different plastics with different dielectrics in their cases and between their plates, and make a world of difference in their ability to withstand voltage or dielectric heating on higher bands. The problem with pushing the RF envelope is that everything can be fine until you change bands, or change modes, or the humidity goes up, or you recharge your battery and the power goes up just a little, or you switch antennas, or any of a million unknown variables changes, and poof! Everything goes instantly straight to Hell. I've seen so much smoke coming out of rigs and accessories that shouldn't have smoked, that over the last couple of decades I finally learned to rate everything very conservatively so it would all actually work reliably. No more of, "Well, that should have worked and not blown up $150 worth of finals." It's just a hobby. I can make mistakes, and I like to troubleshoot, but not enough to cause problems just so I can troubleshoot them, or pop finals and have to throw $150 away for new ones when there are other toys I'd really rather put the money into.
Just don't forget to stop transmitting before stepping through those inductor settings, peeps. not such a big deal for a low power measuring device like an analyzer/VNA.
The Kanga transmatch is my favorite. Followed by the EmTech when it comes to small manual tuners.
The EmTech is great !
Thanks FYL, I’ll check them out 👍
@@TheSmokinApe It is a cool little kit .
I think that you do a really nice job. Clear, concise, and not too wordy. Thanks.
Thanks Mark, I appreciate the feedback 👍
I've had my eye on this little guy.... Don't know how to use a manual tuner, but feels like a skill I should learn.
I have a big one on the way...
An alternative is an Antuner, an atuomatic tuner sold on Aliexpress for about 100 bucks. has an onboard battery good for about 15 hrs, usb-c charging input. can use at trx or at antenna feedpoint. compact. good for portable work. build quality is good. I have been using mine for about six months. no complaints.
Thanks for the info Tim, I’ll check them out 👍
@@TheSmokinApe videos about it on other yt channels
Once again, very helpful demo. I have a very old, maybe 1998 or so, 949 E Deluxe Versa Tuner II collecting dust. I need to get that thing out and see what I can do with it.
Glad you liked it, thank you for watching 👍
Good video tutorial on manual tuners. I picked up a TenTec manual tuner on eBay a while ago and the basic principles of operation are the same. No triggers, but I prefer German Shorthaired Pointer to cats.
Hey Chris, I only hear good stuff about TenTec. Thanks for watching 👍
It would be a very interesting experiiment to relocate your VNA and tuner to the antenna, omitting the coax cable entirely. This allowes dealing only with the radiator and removes any transmission line effects. It also demonstrates antenna tuner performance as a function of where it is in the signal path.
It would be interesting, but I’m using the timer in the shack. I wanted to test it in the way it would be used 👍
@@TheSmokinApe At the antenna is the only way I've ever installed commercial radiotelephone station antenna tuners. We tuned the transmitter to a 50 ohm load in the tuner at the end of the transmission line. At this point the far end impedance of the coax is exactly the same as the near end - flat non-reactive 50 ohms. The transmitter controls are not touched after and the settings are fixed for each band of operation. The matching of the transmission line to the radiator is done with auto tuners with presets that don't require the tuner to hunt, of course. In the commercial world the antenna (radiator) begins at the output of the tuner, never at a transmission line. In amateur radio where few people understand first principles the transmission is treated as part of the radiator to be tuned at the transmitter. That has never made any sense to me. Anyway, that is why your instrumentation interested me and why moving it to the radiator end of the coax (transmission line) would be of interest.
Clicked it. Watched it. Hit the thumbs up 👍🏽.
Thanks Bryant 👍
Nice demo! I can't believe you didn't talk about the toeroid wrap.
I did a lil 😮
I literally just ordered one of these on Monday. I feel like a moron, but previously I ordered the 16010, thinking it was just an ultra compact 200 watt tuner. Because that’s all it says on the case. Nowhere does it say it’s specifically a random wire match. I only found out when looking up the manual to see what the match ratio is, because it was far more difficult to tune than my 941E. I guess I’ll see how the 9201 handles 100 watts FT8, because I do a lot of that. Doesn’t hurt to have a random wire tuner either.
I use the 16010 with full coax hook up all the time. Works with both random or coax. Not as wide a ratio but works none the less.
@@forgetyourlife it worked for a few months. It’s just with nearly resonant antennas, or trying to counter a 1:1, it sometimes didn’t have enough capacitance, and 3/4 of the inductance levels were overwhelming. It did work great when I made a completely unhinged 9 band fan dipole. That wasn’t random wire. Just a random mess.
@@AZREDFERNyou can flip flop the input on the 16010 as well. It’s works backwards for higher or lower impedances. Say, if you can’t tune a certain band try switching the antenna and transmitter inputs.
Hope it works out for Azred 👍
Omgoodness why hadn't I thought about hooking up my antennalyzer?!? Great stuff ape!
Hey Richard, thanks for watching 👍
I bought that model - it was damaged on arrival. Capacitor tuning plates were Jammed - to the point where turning the knob stripped the shaft.
Returned it next day. First, last, and only time I buy an MFJ product.
Sorry to hear you had problems
@@TheSmokinApe maybe they make good gear, but it's hard to shake a bad first impression.
I have seen many hams using the MFJ-9201 with 100 watt radios. The variable capacitors are polyvaricon capacitors and they will handle not more than 10 watts SSB, 5 watts CW.
Thanks for the info 👍
Seriously I am looking for a medium duty rotating rotor, need a comparison review 👍
The best rotating rotors rotate…
@@TheSmokinApe🤣
Nice little tuner. I am with you on the power rating. I don't think those polyvaricon caps would stand up to 100W for very long.
Hey SF, thanks for watching 👍
Hi, I have looked forever to find info on using a manual tuner for receive only.
We have no carrier to drop.
Perhaps you could show how to use a VNA with a tuner to mark our band tune points.
As far as I can see you would be the first.
Thanks
He LB, I a can add that to the list.
I like what ya did with the nano vna. Very cool
Hey Andy, thanks for watching 👍
Just found this video...thinking of getting one of these and mounting it in a pelican case with radio. Wonder if the plastic case of the tuner is necessary?
The only thing I’d say is you want to be careful not to damage those knobs
Great job with the demo. This OM likes demos.😂👍
Thanks Don 👍
Great video and so much better than watching cat videos 😂. I’ve had one of these for a while and haven’t used it. Good to see you break it down. 73, Walt
People are all over the place on its power handling capability. I guess I will give it a run at 50w and see what happens. Thanks for watching Walt 👍
THE BEST TUNER
Thanks for watching Leo 👍
Nice video on using a VNA to set up a tuner. 73
Thanks for watching Jeff 👍
That is a sweet demo!
Thanks TO 👍
Another GREAT Video Ape!! Thank You!!
Thanks Freddie 👍
Slow to see this but for the polycon capacitors, technically it's correct. Polycons are rated for upto 100v, which would be 100w... at 1:1SWR, if you were at that why would you be using a tuner anyway?
At a 4:1 SWR you will have the same voltages across the antenna loading capacitor at 25w as 100w 1:1. Now add in the buffer for constructive phase voltage (double base voltage) from the standing wave and at 4:1 SWR you could see that 100v max at only 6w. Given this is all for a Hi-Z antenna, if its lo-Z than the overheating from current could be the bigger issue than arching. Either way, I've used these type of caps to tune up to 20w SSB no issue, I would limit 100% duty cycles to
Thanks for the info SC, much appreciated.
At D or E I would have tried the capacitor knobs to move that dip to the left. Using a VNA one can see so clearly how the tuner is doing.
Yeah, the VNA is helpful. Thanks for watching 👍
Ape, I've gotta say I like how you tell the whiners to get lost if they can't handle you doing a video and getting a product in return. I can't count how many people I've seen whine about how creators are just "trying to sell stuff". What stuns me is that often they are reviewing something and happen to like its features so they give a positive review and people say they are just trying to sell stuff when in fact they are just reviewing, no more. Whatever happened to critical thinking?
It’s crazy how upset people get over that stuff. I turn down way more stuff than I review because I’m either not interested or the stuff is junk. I also have upset many vendors for giving honest assessments of their products… that said YT is full of shills and yes men you who would sell their souls for an affiliate link. Thanks for watching 👍
Great video, nice little tuner
It’s just been sitting here after I got it back from you, I figured today was the day to do the video 👍
Thanks for sharing !
Thanks for watching SC 👍
nice manual tuner. great way to tune with manual tuner with out transmitting on the air. get your SWR dialed in before transmitting. i do that with my manual tuner. some times under power you have to touch up for lowest point. maybe 100 watt PEP if tuned but not long. that toroid may heat up and or cap arc over. the more out of tune the antenna the harder the tuner needs to work. that why we use a 9:1 or 4:1 is to bring SWR down so easy to tune. that UNUN takes most of the heat. saving it from tuner. I wouldn't use that tuner on FT8 or JS8 call unless 5 watt. and that has been done with a IC 705 and contacts been made QRP. 73's
I just don’t think these caps could take much more than 10w ssb. Thanks for watching Robert 👍
@@TheSmokinApe plastic and small caps . looks like AM radio ones . some one made a CB antenna tuner out of them and took 12Watt SSB . was the limit on caps.
100w works just fine. Use it with an 891. No issues so far. Knock on wood!
Nice, thanks for the info 👍
I'm surprised it doesn't include an inexpensive LED SWR indicator like my ZM-2 from EMTECH. That saves carrying a device to measure SWR. The ZM-2 can also feed balanced or unbalanced lines. This one can't without an external balun.
Never heard of the ZM-2, thanks I’ll check it out 👍
That SWR indicator is nice--though I did like the look/simplicity of the inside of this device :). The ZM-2 is sweet but looks a mess inside. haha. There are probably cases where this is more efficient than the ZM-2, and vice-versa... but you're right, in that the ZM-2 is more versatile. If I'm not mistaken, ZM-2 is limited to 15w (once tuned), and by my eye, those polyvaricons look to be about similar sized. This probably will handle 100w at certain ideal impedances, and it seems people have done so 'successfully,' but probably not best to press one's luck. Overall, this seems like a decent product.
I’ll probably just use the for QRP stuff, please don’t tell anyone I do QRP… it’s embarrassing 😳
Now there's a novel use of AM/FM receiver variable tuning capacitors. QRP, probably fine. 100 Watts, I seriously doubt it.
Hey Mike, it has to be a type in the manual 👍
So this device has to remain connected to the radio and antenna indefinitely?
Yeah
Do you need to be licenced to connect your NanoVNA to an antenna?
I’m going to say yes so I don’t get hamshamed but I really don’t know 🤨
Man more free stuff , load um up SMOKIN, when Yaesu or Icom calls I’m getting jealous 😂
lol, thanks for watching CB 🍻
I like the tuner. But I like cat videos too.
Who doesn’t like cat videos?
Nice I didn't know it would do 100 watts
A rigexpert is easier to do this also Lol
Lordy at the RE 🤨
It's a typo. It had to be 10 watts. If it could handle 100 W they wouldn't call it QRP. That dielectric in those cheap caps can't handle more than 15 or 20 watts before they start arcing. I'd contact MFJ and let them know before someone reads the manual and believes them. If they said the spec was correct I'd make a fun 30 second closeup video with the case open and 95 watts being fed into the capacitors. Probably get a lot of hits. Then I'd replace the caps and know that I'd never hear from MFJ again about a review.
A lot of folks are saying the 100w is doable, I’d be surprised to see that on digital. I’ll give it a go @ 50w and see what happens 👍
@@TheSmokinApe, thanks. I'll check back and see how it went. Different variable caps can use different plastics with different dielectrics in their cases and between their plates, and make a world of difference in their ability to withstand voltage or dielectric heating on higher bands. The problem with pushing the RF envelope is that everything can be fine until you change bands, or change modes, or the humidity goes up, or you recharge your battery and the power goes up just a little, or you switch antennas, or any of a million unknown variables changes, and poof! Everything goes instantly straight to Hell. I've seen so much smoke coming out of rigs and accessories that shouldn't have smoked, that over the last couple of decades I finally learned to rate everything very conservatively so it would all actually work reliably. No more of, "Well, that should have worked and not blown up $150 worth of finals." It's just a hobby. I can make mistakes, and I like to troubleshoot, but not enough to cause problems just so I can troubleshoot them, or pop finals and have to throw $150 away for new ones when there are other toys I'd really rather put the money into.
I would think 10 watts maximum.
Same 👍
Just don't forget to stop transmitting before stepping through those inductor settings, peeps. not such a big deal for a low power measuring device like an analyzer/VNA.
Good call Kinetic, I wasn’t worried about it using the VNA but it’s definitely something I should have mentioned 👍
Oh well, if you arc the caps, MFJ will replace it if they claim the 100w capability.
I’m thinking about a 50w FT8 test 👀
Hi Ape. DIY is no longer worthwhile at these prices.
Yeah, sourcing the parts and the time adds up