I don't know of any myself. I am only familiar with the suppression of high voltage spikes similar to MOVs. Only similar type I can think of with continuous operation would be more like the Neon lamps etc. which I mentioned briefly in the video.
I’m curious if your amp clamp worked OK after this test? Not only would the current be off the scale but it would go from zero to maximum very quickly due to the high voltage of the capacitor, and low inductance of the test leads. An electrolytic capacitor of that voltage and capacitance is usually 40 or 50 something milli ohms internal resistance. You can do the math…
@@ThriftyToolShed I’m impressed it held up to that! Maybe the amp clamp is protected by another tube like this across it’s current sensing coil and shunt resistor…
GREAT VIDEO--I an just working on a project that triggers in GDT's. A couple things though: (1) It would be informative if you let the capacitor slowly rise through a resistor, ...continuously... until it breaks over. maybe several identical GDT's, watching for the difference in sparkover voltage. (2) Wire a couple in series to see how triggering adds. (3) PLEASE!! do something about that background drawing--it gets hard to differentiate the real device details with that drawing. Thanks for the timely & helpful video--this subject seems hard to find on youtube.
dale nassar, BTW it did take me a while to think about what you meant about the background drawing. I actually made the logo much smaller dozens of videos ago! That should better?
I just did some tests with GDT's of three different values of GDT's in series. I used all combinations, and each time the trip point voltage was the sum of the GDT's in series. I could not find this information ANYWHERE. But it appears that GDT's can be used in series. Example: a 600v and a 230v GDT in series fires at 830v!
dale nassar, that's really neat. I would not have thought they would work well like that. Great information. I actually do not currently have 3 alike to try. But will have to check that out!
These Gas discharge tubes are inert gas filled so not air separated, but yes Spark gaps or any high voltage arc such as this can absolutely produce small levels of ozone. You can usually smell it. I used to work in areas where large amounts of Ozone are created while high voltage treating of plastic film using carona discharge. It was just fans installed to evacuate it from the building. You could absolutely smell it pretty strong. Ozone is created when oxygen (O2) is exposed to an electrical field or ultraviolet (UV) light. The high energy causes some of the O2 molecules to split into individual oxygen atoms. These free oxygen atoms then combine with O2 molecules to form 03 ozone. Keep in mind they only discharge in the event of a high voltage spike like a lightning strike. They do absolutely nothing during normal everyday operation of the board. Similar to MOV's etc.
i see , thank you ! 03 ! yes evacuate the gas makes sense ! my spark gaps do seem to smell a bit !! i was slightly concerned about it. i have a HV spark gap component in some of my experiments. so maybe i should have a fan blowing it out the window would you say ?! so GDT's are not an air gap but a gas chamber, so its not open to freely available air and oxygen, so they are maybe less toxic than spark gaps yes ? and so do they not produce ozone at all then ? or does air get into the tube a bit ? just wanna check this ! : ) thanks man @@ThriftyToolShed
@@tvdylan I believe since they are gas sealed, there is no corona or ozone. I have no real way to be 100% sure to be honest. I would use a fan If you do smell it a good bit. I will say I have never had any issues with ozone at all just experimenting, but it seems some people may possibly be less tolerant than others to it.
At ~ 8:13 you mention the energy suppressed. Well, here with a 2200uF cap charged to 260v, that energy is 0.5CV^2=74.5 Joules ... a good bit!! I watched the 'analog' display on your DMM, and it seemed to go to zero! Do you have a 'scope? Also, it is interesting to break some of the GDT devices open and look at the electrodes. They seem to be made of some sort of thick metal screening. interestingly, of the ones I cracked open, ~4, they ALL seemed to be badly corroded! ...maybe this is normal??? ...sure doesn't look it! They were from someplace like digi-Key or Mouser--NOT China-ebay! But I did get 100 pieces for only a few bucks. Some nice scope traces would be great. Thanks again, --dalE
dale nassar, Very interesting! Yes I do have a scope and have used it in several videos. I absolutely know that the video did not have a lot of detail. I tried my best to put out a series of quick videos and if alot of interest was shown , then I planned to go further in depth? I have some repair videos close to an hour long. The details of a repair Is hard to cut down. I try to do some short videos, but yes as you mentioned, I left out alot of good information! Its tougher to balance the time and detail than I even imagined!
Hi my friend, I made 2 arrester plugs and I used a dual gas spark gap arrester and a varistor as well as in this scheme Https://iu8cri.altervista.org/costruzione-semplice-protezione-sovratensione-tipo-3-spina/ Initially nothing happened, but then sometimes during the day the differential or the thermal magnetic circuit breaker of the line taken trips. I don't understand why after hours and hours that nothing happens, sometimes the differential intervenes, sometimes the magnetothermic instead: when asked, the amateur designer told me that the spark gaps are very sensitive. I understand the sensitivity, but finding the disconnected current in the absence is not so beautiful, especially for the refrigerator. What do you think about it? Is it possible to solve the problem? Could it be that I have to install them upstream of the differential and the thermal magnetic circuit breaker?
Well, is there any way to measure incoming power spikes. I know years ago at an industrial plant, the power would spike at times and trip some drives we had on over voltage trip. Anyway, the power company argued it was not them that it was well with in tolerance. After I connected a power analyzer to record, we at times seen spikes 3 times the incoming 480v. They still stated it was fine and it was our problem, come to find out they had been switching a big capacitor bank on and off at times as needed on there lines, they would not tell is this, but someone we know there told us. So sometimes power will spike above a theshold and if not able to change it we may have to raise the rating of the device we use. In your case, what is the voltage in and rating of gas discharge tube. Also is the Varistor rating high enough?
@@ThriftyToolShed ok This is the pdf link of the double spark distributor : iu8cri.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/t23_a350x_x7200-525953.pdf and this is the pdf link of the varistore : iu8cri.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/SIOV_Leaded_StandarD.pdf
Impressive how much current must be flowing though the discharge device from the capacitor. Another great demo!!!!!!!!!
This and spark gaps would be a really good remake for you with better equipment and much more knowledge as well! Thanks so much for your kind comment!
great video, thanks!
Loved the video ,very informative and clearly explained .wonder how many times they can discharge before they are dead ? I'd say many ?
Which type of GDT can work continuously ? I mean sparking continuously at breakdown voltage couple years.
I don't know of any myself. I am only familiar with the suppression of high voltage spikes similar to MOVs. Only similar type I can think of with continuous operation would be more like the Neon lamps etc. which I mentioned briefly in the video.
I’m curious if your amp clamp worked OK after this test? Not only would the current be off the scale but it would go from zero to maximum very quickly due to the high voltage of the capacitor, and low inductance of the test leads.
An electrolytic capacitor of that voltage and capacitance is usually 40 or 50 something milli ohms internal resistance. You can do the math…
It has been perfectly fine the last 5 years and yes I can!
@@ThriftyToolShed I’m impressed it held up to that!
Maybe the amp clamp is protected by another tube like this across it’s current sensing coil and shunt resistor…
GREAT VIDEO--I an just working on a project that triggers in GDT's. A couple things though:
(1) It would be informative if you let the capacitor slowly rise through a resistor, ...continuously... until it breaks over. maybe several identical GDT's, watching for the difference in sparkover voltage.
(2) Wire a couple in series to see how triggering adds.
(3) PLEASE!! do something about that background drawing--it gets hard to differentiate the real device details with that drawing.
Thanks for the timely & helpful video--this subject seems hard to find on youtube.
dale nassar, Thanks for taking the time for comments and suggestions!
dale nassar, BTW it did take me a while to think about what you meant about the background drawing. I actually made the logo much smaller dozens of videos ago! That should better?
I just did some tests with GDT's of three different values of GDT's in series. I used all combinations, and each time the trip point voltage was the sum of the GDT's in series. I could not find this information ANYWHERE. But it appears that GDT's can be used in series.
Example: a 600v and a 230v GDT in series fires at 830v!
dale nassar, that's really neat. I would not have thought they would work well like that. Great information. I actually do not currently have 3 alike to try. But will have to check that out!
How many times will they work? Do they last great discharge?
Yes, usually many, many times.
thanks
Can you keep the GDT ignited if voltage stays above arcing level?
I believe it would stay ignited until failure! I have not tried to say for sure.
I HEAR SPARK GAPS GIVE OFF OZONE, WHICH apprently isnt good to inhale, so do these not give off ozone ?
These Gas discharge tubes are inert gas filled so not air separated, but yes Spark gaps or any high voltage arc such as this can absolutely produce small levels of ozone. You can usually smell it. I used to work in areas where large amounts of Ozone are created while high voltage treating of plastic film using carona discharge. It was just fans installed to evacuate it from the building. You could absolutely smell it pretty strong. Ozone is created when oxygen (O2) is exposed to an electrical field or ultraviolet (UV) light. The high energy causes some of the O2 molecules to split into individual oxygen atoms. These free oxygen atoms then combine with O2 molecules to form 03 ozone.
Keep in mind they only discharge in the event of a high voltage spike like a lightning strike. They do absolutely nothing during normal everyday operation of the board. Similar to MOV's etc.
i see , thank you ! 03 ! yes evacuate the gas makes sense ! my spark gaps do seem to smell a bit !! i was slightly concerned about it. i have a HV spark gap component in some of my experiments. so maybe i should have a fan blowing it out the window would you say ?! so GDT's are not an air gap but a gas chamber, so its not open to freely available air and oxygen, so they are maybe less toxic than spark gaps yes ? and so do they not produce ozone at all then ? or does air get into the tube a bit ? just wanna check this ! : ) thanks man @@ThriftyToolShed
@@tvdylan
I believe since they are gas sealed, there is no corona or ozone. I have no real way to be 100% sure to be honest. I would use a fan If you do smell it a good bit. I will say I have never had any issues with ozone at all just experimenting, but it seems some people may possibly be less tolerant than others to it.
OKAY THANK YOU SIR !!! cheers. @@ThriftyToolShed
At ~ 8:13 you mention the energy suppressed. Well, here with a 2200uF cap charged to 260v, that energy is 0.5CV^2=74.5 Joules ... a good bit!! I watched the 'analog' display on your DMM, and it seemed to go to zero! Do you have a 'scope? Also, it is interesting to break some of the GDT devices open and look at the electrodes. They seem to be made of some sort of thick metal screening. interestingly, of the ones I cracked open, ~4, they ALL seemed to be badly corroded! ...maybe this is normal??? ...sure doesn't look it! They were from someplace like digi-Key or Mouser--NOT China-ebay! But I did get 100 pieces for only a few bucks. Some nice scope traces would be great.
Thanks again,
--dalE
dale nassar, Very interesting! Yes I do have a scope and have used it in several videos. I absolutely know that the video did not have a lot of detail. I tried my best to put out a series of quick videos and if alot of interest was shown , then I planned to go further in depth? I have some repair videos close to an hour long. The details of a repair Is hard to cut down. I try to do some short videos, but yes as you mentioned, I left out alot of good information! Its tougher to balance the time and detail than I even imagined!
the diagram on the paper is confusing .
isn't it "Gas Discharge Tube"?
Yes!
lol i thought he would take ages to see a result (maybe at 600V xD = 12 steps to try)
Your patience, amazing...
@@ThriftyToolShed dont be unfaire, i was in a hurry at the time ;D
@@hyperhektor7733 🤣
Hi my friend, I made 2 arrester plugs and I used a dual gas spark gap arrester and a varistor as well as in this scheme
Https://iu8cri.altervista.org/costruzione-semplice-protezione-sovratensione-tipo-3-spina/
Initially nothing happened, but then sometimes during the day the differential or the thermal magnetic circuit breaker of the line taken trips. I don't understand why after hours and hours that nothing happens, sometimes the differential intervenes, sometimes the magnetothermic instead: when asked, the amateur designer told me that the spark gaps are very sensitive. I understand the sensitivity, but finding the disconnected current in the absence is not so beautiful, especially for the refrigerator. What do you think about it? Is it possible to solve the problem? Could it be that I have to install them upstream of the differential and the thermal magnetic circuit breaker?
Well, is there any way to measure incoming power spikes. I know years ago at an industrial plant, the power would spike at times and trip some drives we had on over voltage trip. Anyway, the power company argued it was not them that it was well with in tolerance. After I connected a power analyzer to record, we at times seen spikes 3 times the incoming 480v. They still stated it was fine and it was our problem, come to find out they had been switching a big capacitor bank on and off at times as needed on there lines, they would not tell is this, but someone we know there told us. So sometimes power will spike above a theshold and if not able to change it we may have to raise the rating of the device we use. In your case, what is the voltage in and rating of gas discharge tube. Also is the Varistor rating high enough?
@@ThriftyToolShed ok This is the pdf link of the double spark distributor : iu8cri.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/t23_a350x_x7200-525953.pdf
and this is the pdf link of the varistore : iu8cri.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/SIOV_Leaded_StandarD.pdf