I worked on the railways in the 80s from Paddington and a regular run was to Penzance with Class 50s in large logo with Mk2e/fs and they had a Mk1 restaurant /buffet car. And the ones on the Waterloo to Exeter had Mk2bs with the mini buffets Tsots which were 2bs or 2cs
Hi Crisp Chris. Great content as always and you have certainly jumped up a level with a sponsor. Well deserved. Like the era(s) explaination that was very useful to a newbie like me. Thankyou.
Thanks once again for another great review. Although my layout is purely for my own enjoyment in ken to try and represent the eras I'm modelling accurately. My time is early 60s to early 70s, and I'm sitting on my hands in anticipation of the Class 37 next year. In the meantime I can prepare a rake of these in the era 7 colours!
Great session. FWIW I never saw a Mk3 buffet car on a Mk2d/e/f set on the Western Region during my spotting days from mid 1970s onwards. Typically an earlier generation car (Mk 1 etc) was used.
Nice vid once again Chris :) A couple of points - Sir Edward was painted GW green in 1984 for the Great Western Railway 150th celebrations (I remember seeing it arriving at Bristol TM with a special from London where steam took over) Re your point about buffet cars - I seem to remember from my lineside days that as there were no mk2 versions, Mk1 buffets were quite prevalent in trains before the mk3s came along - but if they were consisted specifically with Mk2f's I'll leave that for those that know more... but a Hornby Mk1 buffet is well overdue...(and a Mk1 full brake would be nice too as these also latest into later years)
I thought I should leave a comment for your algorithm! When I search for tt120, there are still too many hits from channels that aren't really interested in the scale and just having a cheap dig at it. I'm modelling my own mk2a's at the moment so I really enjoyed this video. In this process I've crossed some sort of line where era's were not quite sufficient to describe the movement of coaching stock - and now have a spreadsheet! I will probably pick up an F at some point to compare notes, from watching yours on the track they look really nice.... but I think they would show up my home made efforts!! I have a spare class 50 body but I was going to go for one of the network southeast liveries. Railtec do the transfers in OO, hopefully I can get them scaled down.
I had TT in the 60's and the annoying thing about it was that it was always so out of date. Steamies when there weren't any more 'round our way. Nice to see some modern stuff in the scale.
The Mk2F coaches I have are really impressive, not that the rest of the range is bad. I fitted the Hornby magnetic couplings and that gives a really close separation between the coaches and they run fine around 4th radius (I have not tried 3rd). Perfect for adding to Sir Edward Elgar as a heritage special! I have given up on being obsessed with getting the eras correct. If it looks good...
If I'm not mistaken, that Intercity Executive livery Mk2F is era 10/11 because like on the Mk3s, Hornby have modelled it with the retrofitted central door locking system indicators. The HST mk3s in BR Blue/Grey and Intercity Swallow were also wrong by having the not-window-aligned seating fitted later. The actual models are accurate for era 11 only.
That’s interesting information, thank you. As I’d said I am planning on using these as “heritage” rail tours on my planned modern image layout, so not so much of a problem for me, however it might be a little disappointing for those who wish for an Era 8 specific train.
I went for the era 8 too, I also bought the era 8 mk3 buffet car and an extra standard open to run with this set. It looked good with the era 8 HST :) I'll get the Mk2E in the BR Blue when the 37's come out. I have noticed on videos from the mid-late 80s that BR frequently mixed mk1, mk2 & mk3s in various liveries together.
Yes it’s hard to give a definitive answer when people ask how should the rake mixes be made up (in the end it doesn’t really matter as they look so good!)
Hi Peachy, lovely review. Nice bit of playing at the end 😊. I've watched lots of videos of class 50s in the last few weeks. I noticed the first class coaches were always in the middle. Presumably, to keep them away from those noisy deisel engines 😂
@@PeachyTT120 Actually, all the videos I watched were of NSE stock. I think intercity stock may well have run in a similar format to the 125. I should get a book on it 😂
The current Hornby TT:120 MK111 buffet/restaurant cars are only for use in High Speed Trains as they have no buffers as trailing vehicles within HST sets didn’t use conventional buffers! Of course anyone can do what they please, especially bearing in mind the current absence of correct catering vehicles, but if you want to be accurate...
These Mk2f’s models don’t have buffers. I’ve been told that the Mk3 Resturant cars were very occasionally used but I agree they would more likely have been blue/grey mk1 Resturant cars. But we don’t have them yet.
That’s correct, BR did use MK3 buffet cars on the occasional service off the electrified network but those MK3 vehicles are not represented by the Hornby TT:120 model. The Hornby TT:120 MK3 buffet car is not suitable in its present form as it represents a vehicle not fitted with conventional draw gear or buffers. Those vehicles in real life could only be found within an HST set. So to make the Hornby TT:120 MK3 suitable at a basic level it needs to be fitted with buffers.
Hello I have just brought the 50 and 2Fs as planning to make a Mini Buffet out of a Swallow Livery. The new magnetic couplings look good but need testing. Keep up the good work. Cheers Roger. ps The who would be king is one of my favourite films.
Thanks for the review and content! Quite surprised at Hornby adding the magnetic option and, as you say, not teaming up with Hunt. That being said, I shall be using TJModèles couplers here in France (he does ship to the UK) because they are so versatile - coming in 0.25mm increments and featuring two magnets so that, in theory it doesn't matter which way round you have the coupler, they will couple, however that causes the couplers to misalign slightly which, with very tight coupling, can result in derailments. Simple to fix - you just turn the coupler upside down and they mate perfectly. As for eras, I was initially quite confused with the UK system, which differs greatly to that of the Continent, but now I've got my head around it, I will be happily mixing 5 and 6 on one occasion and 7 and 8 on others due to 'second-hand' memories and 'first-hand' memories. Looking forward to getting my delivery of Mk2s!
@@PeachyTT120 You *can* get Hornby TT:120 from some Continental retailers which, with the credit you get, would work out slightly cheaper than buying direct from Hornby. That being said, Hornby really have their act together for selling to the EU and ship deducting UK VAT and applying, in my case, French VAT, along with an allowance for customs charges (I think, although as they are VAT registered in France - I also *think* - they may not be necessary and Hornby may not charge them - I should do a comparison in € as if delivering to a UK address to find out). With Hornby's points system and the quicker availability of stuff than what you might get from Continental retailers, I just order direct from Hornby. Also, I've had 'teething-troubles' with quite a few TT:120 items and Hornby Customer Services arrange free pick-up of any items to be returned, which is highly convenient. Sorry for the long-winded response!
Thanks Chris! Waiting for a delivery of coffins this morning. Most photos (and my memory) show them running with a MK1 buffet not MK3, so I'll be modifying a couple of Mk1s I think or getting body kits! But that's for another day. Thanks again!
@@PeachyTT120 inspired by your video I tried out the magnetic couplings in the middle of a rake with the rest "standard" couplings, on my roughly Radius 2 curves. Negotiated okay but with noticeably more friction, and I'm not sure the coach ends weren't rubbing on one another. Think I'll save the magnets for something else as the coach to coach gap looks pretty good to me with the standard coupling.
After the Class 253 (Not 43) took over most West of England mainline services the Class 50 would see services from Paddington to Birmingham via Oxford using mixed MK1 and MK2a (None air conditioned) and the Waterloo - Exeter via Salisbury oft in NE liveries with MK1 coaches . MK2e and F were mainly on the WCML and ECML . The ideal locomotive for these in service would be a Deltic or a Class 47 or one of the 86/87/90 electrics with a DVT ! Imho Hornby would have been better producing a MK2a and Mk1 Buffet in Blue grey and NE liveries at this stage
I'm working on Mk2A's for my Deltic... by the time i've finished Hornby will have probably produced their own, but hey ho - it keeps me off the streets.
I think the Bachmann Eras are nearer the mark: Era Definition 1 1804 - 1875 Pioneering 2 1875 - 1922 Pre-Grouping 3 1923 - 1947 The Big four - LMS, GWR, LNER and SR 4 1948 - 1956 British Railways Early Emblem 5 1957 - 1966 British Railways Late Crest 6 1967 - 1971 British Railways Blue Pre Tops 7 1971 - 1982 British Railways Blue Tops era 8 1982 - 1994 British Railways Sectorisation 9 1995 onwards - Post Privatisation 10 2006 - 2017 Network Franchising 11 2014 onwards Current Day Operators
did you know that the ridges on the roof of a mk1 are actually just where the tarmac sheets overlaps on the real thing. in a model they are modelled so out of proportion that many modellers file them off.
ok era 7 is 72-86 era 8 is 82-96 they overlap each-other and 96 is when privatization begins, elgar would of pulled both livery of 2f they weren't repainted over night leviathan would of pulled the blue/grey 2fs if you change its name to centenarian it could drag the intercity 2fs, and the 2f where around well into the 2010s not including rail-tour use :)
Think your off a bit there . Unusual to see mk3 buffet car on a train of mk2s unless it was a WCML train . What Hornby should have done is make blue/grey mk1s. I’m not sure that 2fs are suitable for 50s, although to me 2d/e/f look pretty much the same and 50s certainly hauled them in blue/grey but you do need a mk1 buffets/restaurant .Not sure about the executive ones though
It’s hard to pin down what we can or should do with the current rolling stock. And I agree with your comment on the Mk1’s. I’ve now been sent some photos of 50’s in blue with the big BR logo and Sir Edward in green both pulling intercity 2f’s so I’m glad I wasn’t imagining it! 😀
Toilet and guards windows dont look correct. Should be whited out. Ideally they need InterCity Executive livery versions that sat between br blue & grey and swallow eras. The class 47 release will improve appeal further but Hornby needs an electric loco for these probably starting with the class 86 in matching eras so blue executive and swallow then later virgin etc.
Another good review chris
Cheers Stuart 🍻
I worked on the railways in the 80s from Paddington and a regular run was to Penzance with Class 50s in large logo with Mk2e/fs and they had a Mk1 restaurant /buffet car. And the ones on the Waterloo to Exeter had Mk2bs with the mini buffets Tsots which were 2bs or 2cs
Cheers for the info Alasdair 🍻
@@PeachyTT120 No problem. I worked as a catering steward on the restaurant cars in those days.
Hi Crisp Chris. Great content as always and you have certainly jumped up a level with a sponsor. Well deserved. Like the era(s) explaination that was very useful to a newbie like me. Thankyou.
My pleasure Taff
Thanks once again for another great review. Although my layout is purely for my own enjoyment in ken to try and represent the eras I'm modelling accurately. My time is early 60s to early 70s, and I'm sitting on my hands in anticipation of the Class 37 next year. In the meantime I can prepare a rake of these in the era 7 colours!
Excellent 👍
Great video Chris congratulations on the sponsorship keep them coming. Got my class 50 today 👍
Cheers 🍻
Thanks for the explanation of the green class 50. It seemed a bit of a retro colour choice although I do like it
Great session.
FWIW I never saw a Mk3 buffet car on a Mk2d/e/f set on the Western Region during my spotting days from mid 1970s onwards. Typically an earlier generation car (Mk 1 etc) was used.
Yes it does seem like an unlikely combination. I won’t be running them like that
Nice vid once again Chris :)
A couple of points - Sir Edward was painted GW green in 1984 for the Great Western Railway 150th celebrations (I remember seeing it arriving at Bristol TM with a special from London where steam took over)
Re your point about buffet cars - I seem to remember from my lineside days that as there were no mk2 versions, Mk1 buffets were quite prevalent in trains before the mk3s came along - but if they were consisted specifically with Mk2f's I'll leave that for those that know more... but a Hornby Mk1 buffet is well overdue...(and a Mk1 full brake would be nice too as these also latest into later years)
Yup, agreed. An expansion of the Mk1 range is a must
You are correct about the use of MK1 buffet cars. Some MK2 micro buffets were done later.
Morning Peachy. Always good to be greeted with a new shiny thing to see reviewed. 🎉🎉
Morning Greg 😀
I thought I should leave a comment for your algorithm! When I search for tt120, there are still too many hits from channels that aren't really interested in the scale and just having a cheap dig at it. I'm modelling my own mk2a's at the moment so I really enjoyed this video. In this process I've crossed some sort of line where era's were not quite sufficient to describe the movement of coaching stock - and now have a spreadsheet! I will probably pick up an F at some point to compare notes, from watching yours on the track they look really nice.... but I think they would show up my home made efforts!!
I have a spare class 50 body but I was going to go for one of the network southeast liveries. Railtec do the transfers in OO, hopefully I can get them scaled down.
Thanks for the comment, they all help (I think) 🤔
I had TT in the 60's and the annoying thing about it was that it was always so out of date. Steamies when there weren't any more 'round our way. Nice to see some modern stuff in the scale.
Absolutely 👍
Good video there once again 10/10
Cheers Mike 🍻
The issue with 50040 is it was renamed in July 1987 to ‘Centurian’ so it would have never hauled IC Swallow mk2fs as Leviathan.
Good point
Nice video - I’ve learnt a bit more!
Excellent 👌
The Mk2F coaches I have are really impressive, not that the rest of the range is bad. I fitted the Hornby magnetic couplings and that gives a really close separation between the coaches and they run fine around 4th radius (I have not tried 3rd). Perfect for adding to Sir Edward Elgar as a heritage special! I have given up on being obsessed with getting the eras correct. If it looks good...
@@DavidJones-hd1jj absolutely love Era11 + Heritage… feels like having your cake & eating it 😝
If I'm not mistaken, that Intercity Executive livery Mk2F is era 10/11 because like on the Mk3s, Hornby have modelled it with the retrofitted central door locking system indicators. The HST mk3s in BR Blue/Grey and Intercity Swallow were also wrong by having the not-window-aligned seating fitted later. The actual models are accurate for era 11 only.
That’s interesting information, thank you. As I’d said I am planning on using these as “heritage” rail tours on my planned modern image layout, so not so much of a problem for me, however it might be a little disappointing for those who wish for an Era 8 specific train.
Another good video. Many thanks!
Cheers 🍻
I went for the era 8 too, I also bought the era 8 mk3 buffet car and an extra standard open to run with this set. It looked good with the era 8 HST :) I'll get the Mk2E in the BR Blue when the 37's come out.
I have noticed on videos from the mid-late 80s that BR frequently mixed mk1, mk2 & mk3s in various liveries together.
Yes it’s hard to give a definitive answer when people ask how should the rake mixes be made up (in the end it doesn’t really matter as they look so good!)
Hi Peachy, lovely review. Nice bit of playing at the end 😊. I've watched lots of videos of class 50s in the last few weeks. I noticed the first class coaches were always in the middle. Presumably, to keep them away from those noisy deisel engines 😂
I’d always assumed the 1st class was always up front so the posh people can get onto the platform before us plebs! 😝
@@PeachyTT120 Actually, all the videos I watched were of NSE stock. I think intercity stock may well have run in a similar format to the 125. I should get a book on it 😂
Thanks as ever, always worth watching.
Can I ask, what are TOPS, as I haven't a clue? I did find your era dating interesting
Google it Trevor, I’m double busy 🤣🤣
@@PeachyTT120 Thanks Chris, I now know it's to do with scaletric and pizza. 😁
@@trevorbellTT120 🤣🤣🤣
The current Hornby TT:120 MK111 buffet/restaurant cars are only for use in High Speed Trains as they have no buffers as trailing vehicles within HST sets didn’t use conventional buffers! Of course anyone can do what they please, especially bearing in mind the current absence of correct catering vehicles, but if you want to be accurate...
These Mk2f’s models don’t have buffers. I’ve been told that the Mk3 Resturant cars were very occasionally used but I agree they would more likely have been blue/grey mk1 Resturant cars. But we don’t have them yet.
That’s correct, BR did use MK3 buffet cars on the occasional service off the electrified network but those MK3 vehicles are not represented by the Hornby TT:120 model.
The Hornby TT:120 MK3 buffet car is not suitable in its present form as it represents a vehicle not fitted with conventional draw gear or buffers. Those vehicles in real life could only be found within an HST set.
So to make the Hornby TT:120 MK3 suitable at a basic level it needs to be fitted with buffers.
Hello I have just brought the 50 and 2Fs as planning to make a Mini Buffet out of a Swallow Livery. The new magnetic couplings look good but need testing. Keep up the good work. Cheers Roger. ps The who would be king is one of my favourite films.
Mine too! (You might have guessed 🤣)
Thanks Preachy. very informative
Cheers Bob 🍻
Thanks for the review and content!
Quite surprised at Hornby adding the magnetic option and, as you say, not teaming up with Hunt. That being said, I shall be using TJModèles couplers here in France (he does ship to the UK) because they are so versatile - coming in 0.25mm increments and featuring two magnets so that, in theory it doesn't matter which way round you have the coupler, they will couple, however that causes the couplers to misalign slightly which, with very tight coupling, can result in derailments. Simple to fix - you just turn the coupler upside down and they mate perfectly.
As for eras, I was initially quite confused with the UK system, which differs greatly to that of the Continent, but now I've got my head around it, I will be happily mixing 5 and 6 on one occasion and 7 and 8 on others due to 'second-hand' memories and 'first-hand' memories.
Looking forward to getting my delivery of Mk2s!
How are you getting on with deliveries from the UK, are you getting hit with extra charges?
How are you getting on with deliveries from the UK, are you getting hit with extra charges?
@@PeachyTT120 You *can* get Hornby TT:120 from some Continental retailers which, with the credit you get, would work out slightly cheaper than buying direct from Hornby.
That being said, Hornby really have their act together for selling to the EU and ship deducting UK VAT and applying, in my case, French VAT, along with an allowance for customs charges (I think, although as they are VAT registered in France - I also *think* - they may not be necessary and Hornby may not charge them - I should do a comparison in € as if delivering to a UK address to find out).
With Hornby's points system and the quicker availability of stuff than what you might get from Continental retailers, I just order direct from Hornby. Also, I've had 'teething-troubles' with quite a few TT:120 items and Hornby Customer Services arrange free pick-up of any items to be returned, which is highly convenient.
Sorry for the long-winded response!
@@Michaelgoestofrance no need to apologise. Although I am sorry my answers are somewhat brief! 😃
Thanks Chris! Waiting for a delivery of coffins this morning. Most photos (and my memory) show them running with a MK1 buffet not MK3, so I'll be modifying a couple of Mk1s I think or getting body kits! But that's for another day. Thanks again!
Ah yes I should’ve mentioned the Mk1’ buffets, but then we don’t have them yet from Hornby, so I thought I might confuse people
@@PeachyTT120 inspired by your video I tried out the magnetic couplings in the middle of a rake with the rest "standard" couplings, on my roughly Radius 2 curves. Negotiated okay but with noticeably more friction, and I'm not sure the coach ends weren't rubbing on one another. Think I'll save the magnets for something else as the coach to coach gap looks pretty good to me with the standard coupling.
@@FourT4Photography alternatively you could try the couplings from West Hill Wagon Works (that’s what I use)
After the Class 253 (Not 43) took over most West of England mainline services the Class 50 would see services from Paddington to Birmingham via Oxford using mixed MK1 and MK2a (None air conditioned) and the Waterloo - Exeter via Salisbury oft in NE liveries with MK1 coaches . MK2e and F were mainly on the WCML and ECML . The ideal locomotive for these in service would be a Deltic or a Class 47 or one of the 86/87/90 electrics with a DVT !
Imho Hornby would have been better producing a MK2a and Mk1 Buffet in Blue grey and NE liveries at this stage
I'm working on Mk2A's for my Deltic... by the time i've finished Hornby will have probably produced their own, but hey ho - it keeps me off the streets.
I’d read somewhere that the Deltic struggled with the MK2’s… or was that just with the F version?
I hadn't heard that. Maybe. My deltic will probably struggle in any case!
@@Blefuscu114 that doesn’t mean I’m right though 😃
thanks chris. caroline
As always, it’s my pleasure 😃
Need some Restaurant/Buffet carriages
Agreed
I think the Bachmann Eras are nearer the mark:
Era Definition
1 1804 - 1875 Pioneering
2 1875 - 1922 Pre-Grouping
3 1923 - 1947 The Big four - LMS, GWR, LNER and SR
4 1948 - 1956 British Railways Early Emblem
5 1957 - 1966 British Railways Late Crest
6 1967 - 1971 British Railways Blue Pre Tops
7 1971 - 1982 British Railways Blue Tops era
8 1982 - 1994 British Railways Sectorisation
9 1995 onwards - Post Privatisation
10 2006 - 2017 Network Franchising
11 2014 onwards Current Day Operators
did you know that the ridges on the roof of a mk1 are actually just where the tarmac sheets overlaps on the real thing. in a model they are modelled so out of proportion that many modellers file them off.
No I didn’t. Thank you
ok era 7 is 72-86 era 8 is 82-96 they overlap each-other and 96 is when privatization begins, elgar would of pulled both livery of 2f they weren't repainted over night leviathan would of pulled the blue/grey 2fs if you change its name to centenarian it could drag the intercity 2fs, and the 2f where around well into the 2010s not including rail-tour use :)
Absolutely 👍 it’s not quite as clean cut as some would like
Think your off a bit there . Unusual to see mk3 buffet car on a train of mk2s unless it was a WCML train . What Hornby should have done is make blue/grey mk1s. I’m not sure that 2fs are suitable for 50s, although to me 2d/e/f look pretty much the same and 50s certainly hauled them in blue/grey but you do need a mk1 buffets/restaurant .Not sure about the executive ones though
It’s hard to pin down what we can or should do with the current rolling stock. And I agree with your comment on the Mk1’s. I’ve now been sent some photos of 50’s in blue with the big BR logo and Sir Edward in green both pulling intercity 2f’s so I’m glad I wasn’t imagining it! 😀
Toilet and guards windows dont look correct. Should be whited out.
Ideally they need InterCity Executive livery versions that sat between br blue & grey and swallow eras.
The class 47 release will improve appeal further but Hornby needs an electric loco for these probably starting with the class 86 in matching eras so blue executive and swallow then later virgin etc.
Agreed. Clear toilet windows might have put people off using them in the station though...
I don't think this guy knows what he's talking about, he wouldn't be any good on "Just a Minute" with all his hesitation.
Maybe not 🤔But at least it’s not deviation