People forget how we got here. Jim Kale, a former bass player, who was fired from the band in 1972, went behind everyone's back trademarked the name "The Guess Who" and thereby shut Bachman and Cummings out of their legacy. Kale even admitted that he was motivated by spite. "I'm his karma", he said about Cummings. But now everyone is realizing how much the Guess Who name is worth when they can't perform Cummings songs. Squat.
Yup. If they had built up any currency in the name over the last 45 years their shows would not have been cancelled. Not even one single hit song to sell to promoters to keep the shows from being cancelled. What Burton did didn’t cause their shows to be cancelled. He pulled the licences for the songs. THEY cancelled the shows because they had advertised their shows using the hit songs they did not own. Without those songs being performed they had nothing to offer the ticket buyers.
If they're allowed to use the name guess who what about the publishing rights if Cummings add bachman wrote the songs they own the publishing rights they should have the right to say who can do their songs who can't
In the 70s The Guess Who was a band not a solo act. I was playing then and my band was learning "Bus Rider" and "Albert Flasher" when they came out. We chose those two songs because they were more interesting arrangements and grooves than "These Eyes" etc... . That was because they had been constructed by a band. In '72 I was an accomplished professional drummer yet both those songs were challenging because Garry's drumming wasn’t simple mashed potatoes and gravy. There are wacky quarter note shuffles, orchestral rolls and drum fills that sounded like the drumset fell down the stairs. It was satisfying having finally pulled off both of those arrangements. To this day I think I still reference Garry's feels and fills in my playing. If you listen to “Mellencamp’s “Jack And Diane” released 10 years later it may well be Garry's style influenced Kenny Arnoff as well. Garry's playing has always been sparse, not flashy, not in the way of vocals and yet appropriate, interesting and catchy....very catchy. The Guess Who was a band. Over the years the royalties from those songs mostly went to the song writers even though the contributions by the other band members were not rewarded. My opinion on this is that "The Guess Who" is not 2 or 3 songwriters with their names on the sheets. the Guess Who is who you hear when you close your eyes and listen to the band. You don't listen to song writers. You listen to the band and their arrangements with their collective contributions. The Guess Who did not belong to Burton. It belonged to Canada and the World. Given the fact three guys with their names on the songs (not the sound, not the arrangements) have received the lions share of the spoils I think they could at least find it in their hearts to allow the original members to earn a living the hard way in lieu of royalties. I think it was you Burton who said "Share the Land". Nobody is gettin" any younger. Do you and Randy really need another lawsuit? Wasn't it Garry's creativity and musicianship (the same guy who at 8 years old played on theatre steps as a draw for the Buddy Rich shows) that helped get that airplay? He kinda did the work before you got there. All of the original members are who we hear when we close our eyes. When we remember the photos of the band with Queen Elizabeth we see the band. When we look at all of the album covers we see, well you get the point, we see the entire hard working creative ...band. I appreciate your contributions and not just your songwriting. I appreciate your vocals and that you can shake a mean tambourine. I just wish you did the same for them.
A long, long time ago, when my mom was still alive, she and my dad came back from a trip down to Florida. In the course of a conversation, she said to me, “We saw the Temptations, but they didn’t sing anything that I recognized.” I said to her, “You didn’t see the Temptations.” She starts yelling at me, and saying “I did see the Temptations!” I said to her, “The Temptations is Paul Williams, Otis Williams, Melvyn Franklin, Eddie Kendricks, and David Ruffin… That’s The Temptations!“
Imagine being the host of a Canadian show and taking the side of a cover band that cannot even perform in the country because the ENTIRE Canadian industry knows they are a fraud. They get away with it in the U.S. because he public there mostly knows the songs and not who was behind them.
I'm right behind Burton on this one it's completely understandable and there's no one in the same situation who wouldn't feel the same or understand this.
burton owns the songs. they are his to do what he wishes with them. dude still tours and i'd love to see him. I wouldn't walk across the street to see the imposters. and as long as they were around faking it, the chances of burton touring near enough to me to see him were nil. so good for burton.
Didnt Steve Perry of Journey try this and fail? I thought the judge said just because you are not in the band anymore doesnt mean the rest of ths band can't play the bands songs. Or something like that.
Unless he has exclusive rights legally to these songs then it's pretty much fair game. Lots of bands play other bands songs. BC is a bit too arrogant for his own good.
I support Mr. Cummings on this. For arguments sake, i dont think its actually his old band. Don't believe there are any original members left. They are just a cover band trying to capitalize on the band's name.
What this story is missing is how this can be policed in practice. As a working musician I’ve played 5-10 gigs a months for the past 40 years (damn I’m old!) and bands do not ask permission to perform a song. The venue is responsible for paying BMI so the band plays without consulting with the venue about what material they’ll do. There have been instances where a venue doesn’t want to pay BMI so they tell bands they can only play original material but if a venue does has a license with BMI/ascap the venue (in my experience) does not tell the band what songs they can or cannot perform. So if the fake Guess Who performs at a venue that has a license with BMI the venue may be responsible but would unlikely not even know these songs were off limit. And then how would BMI even know what songs were performed?
The copyright infringement will only apply to the fake GW band. Burton as the publisher would not be issuing a copyright infringement on anyone else if they performed the songs. Every venue the GW cover band is performing at has been notified, so they all know. This is not going to be an everyday thing. No publisher wants to pull their catalogue. So unless someone is targeting YOU, why would you or a venue ever have to worry about this?
I am.glad Burton Cunnings and Randy Bachman are doing this. It is important for artists from the classic rock era to assert their ownership over their material and stand up for their owm artistic integrity. Kale and Petersen are quite frankly acting like clowns.
Since when has this been his "old band"? This is a new band, releasing their own material, under the name of the old band, while claiming to be the original line up. Before you launch some crap like this, do some research. Sorta like calling this guy qualified to work for the CBC
I cringed every time I would see that this fake GW was on a tour. Young people may know these songs and never realize it is not the real band, so they pay and attend. Its a blatant deception. Older fans know all about Burt and the real band and honor their true legacy and talent. Glad he is taking action.
if they're the legal line-up (and they seem to be) then they are. Burton might have written the best songs (he did) but he gave up being part of the active Guess Who franchise years ago. Seems like Burton has gotten butt-hurt somehow and is feeing greedy. Y'all know he must have a lawyer or management of a certain tribe whispering in his ear.
Explain why a former bass player, who was fired from the band in 1972, has the right to trademark the name "The Guess Who" and thereby shut Bachman and Cummings out of their legacy? Jim Kale went behind everyone's back and trademarked the name. How is that fair?
The “franchise” ended in 1975. The existing members all signed documents with Sony dissolving the band. The band did not hire a new singer like the Doobie Beothers and it continued on making hit songs. There was NO TGW for years. The new band was stated by the bassist who was fired in 1972. Not even a member for the last 3 years the band existed. They have had ZERO hit songs since. This is a rotating line up of musicians performing the hits and pretending to be the guys behind them. Peterson was rarely in stage in 2022 and 2023. Now that the lawsuit has been filed he’s trying to make it look he always shows up.
dude,,ur not old enough to understand.i grew up the beatle tgw stones 3 dog night ect.i get whats going on.thhis fake bad goes on stage acts like there the ones who recorded the song wrote them its a bs bad burton and randyt bachman had enouugh they had 45 years to build there lengacy now there bank is closed
People forget how we got here. Jim Kale, a former bass player, who was fired from the band in 1972, went behind everyone's back trademarked the name "The Guess Who" and thereby shut Bachman and Cummings out of their legacy. Kale even admitted that he was motivated by spite. "I'm his karma", he said about Cummings. But now everyone is realizing how much the Guess Who name is worth when they can't perform Cummings songs. Squat.
Yup. If they had built up any currency in the name over the last 45 years their shows would not have been cancelled. Not even one single hit song to sell to promoters to keep the shows from being cancelled. What Burton did didn’t cause their shows to be cancelled. He pulled the licences for the songs. THEY cancelled the shows because they had advertised their shows using the hit songs they did not own. Without those songs being performed they had nothing to offer the ticket buyers.
I'm with Mr. Cummings on this one. I saw one of those promos he mentions, and imho, it felt like false advertising to me.
If they're allowed to use the name guess who what about the publishing rights if Cummings add bachman wrote the songs they own the publishing rights they should have the right to say who can do their songs who can't
In the 70s The Guess Who was a band not a solo act. I was playing then and my band was learning "Bus Rider" and "Albert Flasher" when they came out. We chose those two songs because they were more interesting arrangements and grooves than "These Eyes" etc... . That was because they had been constructed by a band. In '72 I was an accomplished professional drummer yet both those songs were challenging because Garry's drumming wasn’t simple mashed potatoes and gravy. There are wacky quarter note shuffles, orchestral rolls and drum fills that sounded like the drumset fell down the stairs. It was satisfying having finally pulled off both of those arrangements. To this day I think I still reference Garry's feels and fills in my playing. If you listen to “Mellencamp’s “Jack And Diane” released 10 years later it may well be Garry's style influenced Kenny Arnoff as well. Garry's playing has always been sparse, not flashy, not in the way of vocals and yet appropriate, interesting and catchy....very catchy. The Guess Who was a band. Over the years the royalties from those songs mostly went to the song writers even though the contributions by the other band members were not rewarded. My opinion on this is that "The Guess Who" is not 2 or 3 songwriters with their names on the sheets. the Guess Who is who you hear when you close your eyes and listen to the band. You don't listen to song writers. You listen to the band and their arrangements with their collective contributions. The Guess Who did not belong to Burton. It belonged to Canada and the World. Given the fact three guys with their names on the songs (not the sound, not the arrangements) have received the lions share of the spoils I think they could at least find it in their hearts to allow the original members to earn a living the hard way in lieu of royalties. I think it was you Burton who said "Share the Land". Nobody is gettin" any younger. Do you and Randy really need another lawsuit? Wasn't it Garry's creativity and musicianship (the same guy who at 8 years old played on theatre steps as a draw for the Buddy Rich shows) that helped get that airplay? He kinda did the work before you got there. All of the original members are who we hear when we close our eyes. When we remember the photos of the band with Queen Elizabeth we see the band. When we look at all of the album covers we see, well you get the point, we see the entire hard working creative ...band. I appreciate your contributions and not just your songwriting. I appreciate your vocals and that you can shake a mean tambourine. I just wish you did the same for them.
Nobody has a voice like BC.
A long, long time ago, when my mom was still alive, she and my dad came back from a trip down to Florida. In the course of a conversation, she said to me, “We saw the Temptations, but they didn’t sing anything that I recognized.” I said to her, “You didn’t see the Temptations.” She starts yelling at me, and saying “I did see the Temptations!” I said to her, “The Temptations is Paul Williams, Otis Williams, Melvyn Franklin, Eddie Kendricks, and David Ruffin… That’s The Temptations!“
Imagine being the host of a Canadian show and taking the side of a cover band that cannot even perform in the country because the ENTIRE Canadian industry knows they are a fraud. They get away with it in the U.S. because he public there mostly knows the songs and not who was behind them.
I'm right behind Burton on this one it's completely understandable and there's no one in the same situation who wouldn't feel the same or understand this.
And Randy Bachman is with Burton on this!
burton owns the songs. they are his to do what he wishes with them. dude still tours and i'd love to see him. I wouldn't walk across the street to see the imposters. and as long as they were around faking it, the chances of burton touring near enough to me to see him were nil. so good for burton.
Didnt Steve Perry of Journey try this and fail? I thought the judge said just because you are not in the band anymore doesnt mean the rest of ths band can't play the bands songs. Or something like that.
Does Steve Perry own the publishing/performing rights? Probably not. Cummings owns 100% of the Guess Who's hits.
@@jeffunderglass He might have part of them, since he was a co-writer on most of their hits.
Unless he has exclusive rights legally to these songs then it's pretty much fair game. Lots of bands play other bands songs. BC is a bit too arrogant for his own good.
I support Mr. Cummings on this. For arguments sake, i dont think its actually his old band. Don't believe there are any original members left. They are just a cover band trying to capitalize on the band's name.
What this story is missing is how this can be policed in practice. As a working musician I’ve played 5-10 gigs a months for the past 40 years (damn I’m old!) and bands do not ask permission to perform a song. The venue is responsible for paying BMI so the band plays without consulting with the venue about what material they’ll do. There have been instances where a venue doesn’t want to pay BMI so they tell bands they can only play original material but if a venue does has a license with BMI/ascap the venue (in my experience) does not tell the band what songs they can or cannot perform. So if the fake Guess Who performs at a venue that has a license with BMI the venue may be responsible but would unlikely not even know these songs were off limit. And then how would BMI even know what songs were performed?
The copyright infringement will only apply to the fake GW band. Burton as the publisher would not be issuing a copyright infringement on anyone else if they performed the songs. Every venue the GW cover band is performing at has been notified, so they all know. This is not going to be an everyday thing. No publisher wants to pull their catalogue. So unless someone is targeting YOU, why would you or a venue ever have to worry about this?
I am.glad Burton Cunnings and Randy Bachman are doing this. It is important for artists from the classic rock era to assert their ownership over their material and stand up for their owm artistic integrity. Kale and Petersen are quite frankly acting like clowns.
Since when has this been his "old band"? This is a new band, releasing their own material, under the name of the old band, while claiming to be the original line up. Before you launch some crap like this, do some research. Sorta like calling this guy qualified to work for the CBC
That's not his old band. It's a bunch of much younger guys he doesn't know and every once in a while his old drummer gets on stage with them.
I cringed every time I would see that this fake GW was on a tour. Young people may know these songs and never realize it is not the real band, so they pay and attend. Its a blatant deception. Older fans know all about Burt and the real band and honor their true legacy and talent. Glad he is taking action.
if they're the legal line-up (and they seem to be) then they are.
Burton might have written the best songs (he did)
but he gave up being part of the active Guess Who franchise years ago.
Seems like Burton has gotten butt-hurt somehow and is feeing greedy.
Y'all know he must have a lawyer or management of a certain tribe whispering in his ear.
Explain why a former bass player, who was fired from the band in 1972, has the right to trademark the name "The Guess Who" and thereby shut Bachman and Cummings out of their legacy? Jim Kale went behind everyone's back and trademarked the name. How is that fair?
The “franchise” ended in 1975. The existing members all signed documents with Sony dissolving the band. The band did not hire a new singer like the Doobie Beothers and it continued on making hit songs. There was NO TGW for years. The new band was stated by the bassist who was fired in 1972. Not even a member for the last 3 years the band existed. They have had ZERO hit songs since. This is a rotating line up of musicians performing the hits and pretending to be the guys behind them. Peterson was rarely in stage in 2022 and 2023. Now that the lawsuit has been filed he’s trying to make it look he always shows up.
dude,,ur not old enough to understand.i grew up the beatle tgw stones 3 dog night ect.i get whats going on.thhis fake bad goes on stage acts like there the ones who recorded the song wrote them its a bs bad burton and randyt bachman had enouugh they had 45 years to build there lengacy now there bank is closed
that fake band used vocal tracks from the original records. absolutely shameless. team burton here.
Well… it’s not his old band. Is a bunch of dudes.
who owns the rights to the songs.
Cummings owns 100% of them.
It's not his old band, it's wanna be's playing his music that he wrote and played.