Why The World Simply Abandoned "Water Trains"
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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How did the chain get put on and off the boat?
Long poles to pull it out of the water. Every 50 meters or so there was a chain link that had a sort of clasp that could be opened. So they could unlink it and thread it through. Naturally this took many hours and was very heavy.
They sank. Qestion
Majik
Your the guy with the research but mariners don’t usually use poles to pull up chain. You’d use a grapple on the end of a Hawser rope. But likely they would buoy the end so you didn’t have to.
Grapple the chain, pass the hawser around the windlass, and use the steam engine to pull the chain up on deck.
@@FoundAndExplained That isn't how you pronounce drought. It's "draft."
This sounds like an aquatic version of a cable car
But on cable cars, the cable moves, So, the engine is in a house, not in the vehicle. Great for electric propulsion, or even with coal. Because you can use a big chimney and won't blow the smoke in the street. On chain ships, the chain won't move, so it is more like a cog railway, so something to grab on to get somewhere.
Without the required electricity to operate said railcar
Well, in cable cars the power plants are stationary. 🤔 Not super sure but I think that there WERE cable operated ferries.
So we got regular trains, land trains and now water trains. Next step should then be air trains and fir.... space trains, right?
Right. Thought the same thing, but I imagine many things are still technologically possible….
we already have it, its called Starlink Constellation. albeit not having any rails
@@ohoh7570 Isn't it just a collection of satellites? By "train", I meant a vehicle or collection of vehicles carrying large amounts of cargo.
Nah, the billionaire tech bros are all about "pods" now - less efficient, more expensive, less capacity, but you don't need to sit next to poor people and brrr hyperloop go fast
Just wait until they realise they can move more people by joining pods together in some sort of end-to-end linear arrangement...
How about time trains. A train that goes through Time.
"...that many of you watching this may never have heard of...." Nope, I did not know these were a thing.
We do know boats and ships were a thing though ✅
@@AdhvaithSane Sure, if you accept the lies of the MSM. ;)
I'm quite into naval history and I didn't even know this was a thing.
@@Jakeomgwtfisevenhappeningsame lol.
as bavarian, also never heard of this kind of ship.... well that is i think the true meaning of found and explained...
“Someone is wrong on the Internet. I have to fix it…”
The engineer in me groaned when you called an impeller a turbine. A turbine is driven, an impeller drives.
Damn learned something new!
It didn't bother you when he mispronounced drought?
@@kyle857 it did, but not as much as that seemed to be just a “reading the script” effect. Should have been caught in the proof viewing of course. Was it wrong more than once?
The turbine line was factually absolutely wrong.
Is the Zeuner water turbine, its actual name, powered or not? If it doesn't use an external.power source, which I am not sure would work or not, then its a turbine as an impeller uses a power source to spin the impeller blades to create both suction and thrust as it does in a jet ski.
@@FoundAndExplained - then lets please add how to pronounce draught.
Its pronounced draft. Same pronunciation as a waft of air through a gap,
Not Drort.
(i come meaning well tho, good vid in most respects- and could be worse man. The muppets at dark seas think the front of a ship is a decorative loop of ribbon. And your unlucky- draught is an exception to rules thats not pronounced in obvious way, and is bit of technical term...
unlike bow, which has a 2nd common usage with same pronunciation.)
We have one in Poland near my home town Kolno, it was the only one I’d ever seen in my life anywhere . It’s still there, to this day, and the farmers use it to transfer supplies across the river in the rainy seasons
Nothing on the internet anywhere, but I believe you. A few things slip through the internet cracks I guess.
@@Three_Random_Words A shocking amount of information isn't online, or not readily accessible to search engines.
Dear gods, can you imagine the noise that chain must have caused to someone inside the vessel?
I'm sure everything was well lubed with Whale fat.
@@Ichijoe2112 Yes, the women of Wales GB had some lard on 'em, they did. Now we have Walmart patrons.
Having crossed a river many times on a car ferry that used this system, I can say that there's no undue noise at all
Just the quiet chuff of the old diesel engine.
I rode a chain ferry last week. It makes a distinctive clanking as the chain goes through but it's not loud like an anchor chain being let out.
Fascinating. How do they quiet it I wonder. Now I've got to seek one out to get a look. Thanks!
Many countries still use this system only perpendicular to the flow, as a means of crossing.
Ie a Ferry.
On the Mississippi River in the US
Occasionally they use actual rails.
Right. They are usually called cable ferries because they don't use chains anymore..
Near where I live there is a ferry that cross a river running a cable that is out of the water, using only the river current (and a little human labour).
I think that Tom Scott once made a video about a similar ferry in Germany.
Didn't Tom Scott make a video on that?
I think you missed one reason why it was downright impossible to continue water trains on many European rivers in later years. It was because locks where installed in them in the late 19th and early 20th century.
As a marine engineer this was incredibly interesting. I thought I knew about almost all historic marine propulsion plants..... as always every day I learn something new. I think the biggest oh wow of this is the fact they had jet propulsion figured out way back when, just not quite the bucket. Be interesting to do a deeper dive into those thrusters,
Just for future reference, Draught is actually pronounced draft. Just figured I should let you know, I'm not mad at you or anything.
It's the hosts thing. Every video, there is at least one word he struggles with, usually names which leads me to believe our host is dyslexic maybe
@@weldonwin Interesting hypothesis, you may be onto something
@@weldonwin AI generated?
@@williebruciestewie No, the host is definitely a real person and has appeared on camera in several videos. Some of it is because he's Australian and has trouble with certain words, mostly names as I pointed out, but sometimes he has trouble with words like Armaments (which he called Am-Rah-Ments) and Weaponry (Weh-Pon-Dree).
I believe he's reading from a script, his dyslexia causing him to misread words on the page. An AI Generated voice, wouldn't be making these kinds of mistakes.
Prevalent was another word with interesting pronunciation.
Finally, more BOAT content
But you're a train guy.
I think it needs more Essex content.
THAT’S WHY HE’S THE BOAT
*THE BOOOOAT!!!*
@@AdhvaithSane😂
BOAT
Draught is pronounced draft!
i’d imagine it is hard to operate more than one boat in a river, as the chains are likely tangle in the waters
Yes many questions arise. Such as right of way, all other vessels would always have to give way to the chain ship. The chain ship company would have to secure the exclusive legal right to put their chain on the bottom of a whole river, which assumedly is usually public property.
You can
Just by combining them into single bigger ship. Which everyone did until this day
That’s what barges are for
We have one in my home country of Poland, it uses a small gas engine to crawl up and down across the river in the rainy seasons transferring supplies to the farmers on the other side of the river that encircles their properties
The system was used around here (Southern Germany) until after WW I. The tugboat company had a monopoly, the ships were nicknamed "river donkey". Only one chain was in the river, when encountering oncoming traffic, the downstream-going boat would need to drop it and get it back on board after the ships had passed each other. This would take about an hour.
In the 1920s, the rivers were made more shipping-friendly by installing dams and locks.
We had this on the river Main in the Frankfurt Area. Long time ago. The chain is still on the ground. Thanks for the vid.
You can still find the last of these ships in Aschaffenburg.
they got replaced by pusher barges, some of them can consist of 10-12 units
Never heard of water trains. No train museum ever mentioned them. Learn something new everyday.
They never made it past the conceptual phase
@@CoreyAnderson-l5y Thank you. Can't find anything on the net, just this channel. Maybe this youtuber is getting desperate for material?
There’s a chain ferry quite near me actually, but going cross-stream. We get a lot of tall sail ships where I am and bridges would not be viable, so the chain ferry provides routine access from one side to the other.
A riverbed chain, or a suspended aerial cable? I've seen the cable kind, pulleys and such?
@@Three_Random_Words riverbed. Aerial chain wouldn’t work for the same reason a bridge wouldn’t and the forces involved were it to be high enough for ship masts to pass under would be a lot to deal with.
@@AcrimoniousMirth It's just strange, because the internet has nothing of what this channel is talking about, which is not impossible I suppose, just unexpected.
Those ferries most likely rely on river currents instead of any kind of engine so it‘s not exactly the same system.
@@MrAranton no, they have engines. They’re not drift ferries.
Another unique boat you should check out is the SS Badger. It ferries cars across Lake Michigan but was originally designed to ferry actual trains. At one point there was a fleet of them.
Oh also it’s the last of its kind.
Her sister ship the SS Wolverine still exists, used for spare parts .
And recently converted from coal. It is a steam boat with a steam uniflow engine. Very eff
I think Railroad Ferries were last used in the Russian tundra on the trans siberia railway, and possibly still in use today.
@@larrybremer4930there’re some regular passenger rail routes which use ferries. Trains from the main Italian boot to Sicily use one (although they’re thinking about a tunnel so it won’t be for long)
The spartan her sister ship is also there in Ludington. There's been some talk about the benefit vs cost ratio of getting the spartan into running condition. But at last check I think she's viewed as more valuable as a parts ship for the badger
Hi, nice video, pity that you missed on one of the critical drawbacks of the chain tugs: The tricky procedure of passing. The downward travelling tug had to anchor, open the chain, thread itself out, close it and drop it down for the upward tug to pass. Then, collect the chain from the river bead, open it again and thread into it before continuing. No wonder, they were dismissed on the Neckar in 1935 and the Main 1936. (ua-cam.com/video/nuLRVhTwgL8/v-deo.html). There are still a few hulls around.
A very interesting system of which I haven't heard before.
It is not only other modes of transport which made these obsolete, but the development in water transport itself also.
Rivers have been canalised, or canals have been built parallel to shorten the route and have a corridor without currents, many other canals connecting existing water systems have been built into the last century.
And then the development in propulsion systems of the river barges and tugs themselves have made them a lot more powerful.
In the US the pusher boat with a consist of tied together barges was invented to navigate the large rivers, Europe introduced them in the 1950s to replace towed consists.
We now can see pusher boats navigating the canals and rivers with as many as 6 on the Rhine to 12 barges on the Danube. On the Mississippi river the record is 60 barges pushed along by just one pusher. Barges are not slung one after another but tied tightly into one large barge so to say, on the Rhine usually 2 across and 3 long or the 3 across and 2 long, on the Danube up to 4 wide and 3 long, a standard barge in Europe being 76,5m long and 11,4m wide. Also larger load carrying river boats can be seen with 1 or 2 barges tied alongside or in front.
i can only imagine the noise that thing would make for the crew onboard
Fascinating. I live near the Rhine, and yet I've never heard of these, so many thanks...
I just want to say that your pun about the drive wheel being a "revolutionary" development at 9:33 did not go unnoticed. :) Fantastic video!
Thanks for this video I introduced your channel to my grandpa a few weeks back and he passed away recently thanks for the joy you gave him
Deepest wishes to you and your family during this hard time. I’m glad I gave your grandpa some joy before he passed
@@FoundAndExplained Thank you i have a playlist of all the videos he couldn't watch Thanks for giving him so much Happiness your videos do impact people in a good way. have a great night
One Piece has a sea train, the Puffing Tom. Some guy gets ran over and joins the main cast. It's *SUPER*
I've gone on a cable ferry that is quite similar to these except that it always goes in a straight line. As far as I know, a couple of them are still operating in BC.
imagine how difficult maintaining that chain would be
Oh awesome. Riqueval is where I live, you can visit the boat "toueur" you see in this vid :)
This is one of the most interesting topics you've ever covered. Great video.
An electric version of this boat would be a genius to use on the rivers these days. Good for the environment.
We have that here, we call it a ferry. If you ever find yourself between Montreal and Ottawa and want to cross the River, there's one such cable ferry (electric) crossing between Clarence Point and Thurseau.
@njcummins Yours is the best dialogue I’ve ever heard on UA-cam @9:42 in when you say, “…taking the rivers by storm…” 😂🤣😂. So refreshing. So much better than the ad pitch lines pushing some product “…taking the world by storm…”that I’ll never buy.
You’ve got a nice twist on a shopworn phrase!!!
You’ve got a great channel going too. Keep it up!
We just built 2 cable ferries in BC Canada, worst decision ever.
Well done Jared! I had never heard of these before.
Yup, never heard of such. I can totally see the chain getting hung up on rocks and sunken trees.
Why should a tree sink ? It's wood. And rolling rocks, too big to be moved away by lifting the chain, might be very rare.
@@holger_p they sink when they are waterlogged. That’s how we got that word😉 and some trees aren’t even sawed down. They leave them, build dams and the water level rises when making reservoirs.
An amazing invention, I had no knowledge of these means of transport.
This is STILL used today! In Sweden we have "Chain ferry´s" to transport cars from island to island in the archipelago! Still operating today and i have been on one several time then taking my car out to the islands. one of them named "Yxland" abou 60 km north of Stockholm.
“Train on the water, boat on the tracks”
I always come to these videos asking "ya wtf, why didn't that idea happen?" and then find out how depressing reality is.
"train on the water, boat on a track"
This is what you call a "tugboat towing barges" in the industry.
Edit: never heard of this, probably wasn't even a thing in Hungary? (Thank you István Széchenyi for thinking way ahead and training our rivers)
There’s still cable ferries. One crosses the LaHave River in Bridgewater Nova Scotia
Many U.S. waterways use modern tow boats all the time. The Mississippi and connected rivers are heavy with barge traffic. Thus in a sense the idea never left. But they tend to use a pusher configuration and the barges being moved aren't allowed a whole lot of slack to prevent break-aways.
The Rhine River saw Schleppers and horses drawing ships. Today 2 ships are also tied together at the bow or side by side.
Well, although it might not be so common in the world, here in Sweden, we have a lot of "water trains", or as we call them, "line-ferries". It's actually very common to find them in the Stockholm archipelago.
Clever people have always existed, it's just a question of how much knowledge they had and the materials available.
Not a boat train, however in several places in the world there are chain ferries, working in a similar fashion with a vessel pulling along on a chain pulled up from the sea bed. Normally used in locations with a deep channel and fast flowing currents. Examples on the south coast of the UK included Poole Harbour Entrance ( Sandbanks Ferry), Cowes Ferry and Plymouth (Homaz) Ferry.
You missed the biggest advantage, before the era of lighted navigation marks navigating at night was perilous especially on rivers. A chain boat wouldn’t need nav marks.
As nav marks were eventually made more common the tug boat proved vastly superior.
There are still a few chain ferries in the UK, such as one going from Bournemouth to the Isle of Purbeck.
Even as an amateur history buff, gearhead and industrial technology enthusiast, this is the first time I've ever heard of chain boats and water trains! Thanks for making this video!
I mean, talk about steam punk!
There are still lots of ferries that work this way, just across the river or straight, instead of along it. That way the chain/rope is much shorter and useful.
With a single boat per chain, and a chain with fixed ends, it's a rather primitive concept.
One important thing that was not even mentioned - such a drive was probably multiple times more efficient than a propeller or paddle wheel. It was probably inconvenient but certainly efficient.
This is still a thing, in a way. You won't see them used as tug boats anymore but there are still ferries about that use chain to pull themselves across bodies of water.
Barges tied together and towed by another vessel never went out of fashion. The only thing that changed was the motive power.
There's also a barge called a Car Float. They were used in the states to float rail cars/carriages about. They'd also hook several of them together for towing, which is the most water train thing I can think of.
That's one of the coolest things I had never heard of.
Thank you Gerald! Great stuff.
Thanks, Jarod! Good work!
They had something like this in the first few episodes of attack on titan if I remember, when people where escaping from shiganshina. The only major difference was that the pully track link style system was on top of the boat/water train and grabbed a suspended net hanging between support structures down the length of the canals/rivers.
While they are not trains, more like Ferries, Michigan (USA) still has a small number of vessels that use a chain driven system to cross inland bodies of water, to get to their destination. It is a unique experience to take a trip on one.
Cable feries operates in a similar fashion, and some are still in operation.
Kinda vaguely knew about them as a thing, but thought for a while they were a sort of push/pull kind of screw propeller tug.
Then saw the illustration of the barges being on longer leads and immediately thought " That's dumb, how would the barges stay under steering control when going down stream and not get wildly out of line..."
Then came the " these were only around for fifty years and is a design likely never to be used or seen again." Which got the "Yeah, it's a design made by someone that should really have learned more by observing than just saying they were smart and knew things because they had book learning." Water near the edge of a river acts very different from the middle. Plus there's sunken snags from flooding or erosion to think about. Silting over your drag chain, on and on.
Yes I can see where this would have been a revolutionary idea and design when first deployed. But any rubbing of brain cells together would see the glaring flaws quickly. None the less, a neat part of history and archaic design features that were absolutely a no turn around dead end.
Vancouver island has one, it’s owned and operated by BC Ferries.
working on one of these must've been super loud due to the rattling of the chains
I've never heard of this mode of transport and it's so cool that I'm hearing about it now.
This was an interesting vid. Something I'd never heard of before. A perfectly logical approach to a problem, later superseded by other technologies. I love to hear about obscure and forgotten tech!
One important concept was missing in the report. If you pull a rope hanging out of your boat, you get the rope into your boat. Unless the rope is fixed with some kind of anchor.
But the chain couldn't have anchors, cause it's supposed to be lifted without moving downstream. This is just avoided by friction on the riverbed, nobody can pull a 100km long chain. No need to fix it anywhere (like It's necessary for cross river ferries). So even when the chain broke, it didnt effect boats in 10km distance.
Mark Twain wrote about a trip on one of these craft. For fifty years, I believed it was one of his better jokes.
Train on the water, boat on the track
Very well done. I thought it would be about ferries that carried trains.
Sounds like the first version of a river barge. And we still have those
You mentioned that one problem was the force needed to lift the chain from the riverbed. Wouldn't that be offset by the weight of the chain returning to the riverbed on the other end of the boat?
Actually vehicles which use a winch as their primary means of propulsion are still popular today, they're known as Jeeps that try to off road. :P
Still pretty common for ferries. In the UK we have a large vehicle chain-ferry at Studland in Dorset, also there's one on the River Dart, and I rode one in the Lake District but I can't remember where. I also used on on the road North from Cairns towards the Daintree, in Australia. Works really well as a ferry solution.
I can't even imagine how loud it must have been to be on one of those.
Many countries still use chain ferries. The nearest one to me is the King Harry Ferry which crosses the River Fal in Cornwall, England.
4:42 “draught” (depth a vessel sits in the water) is pronounced (& now usually written) “draft”.
Your videos are always top-notch
Ah yes, Water Trains, the grandfather of today's Land Water Trains. So majestic.
I guess this design still exists in a way, in the form of cable ferries. They work essentially in the same manner but usually just cross short river crossings for a small number of cars in rural or remote areas. My home town region in British Columbia has several of these.
Holy crap, this type of craft is amazing. I can see why it didnt stick around, but it would be interesting to have seen if the tech was iterated on more.
WE have such an Animal on the Isle of Wight, The Chain Ferry between East Cowes and Cowes. its been running for many years.
@FoundAnExplained: Why WaterTrains did not succeed: I only agree with that steam engines got powerful. That is one part of the story. There came a totally disruptive kid to town who pushed even the paddle steamer into submission: The propeller matured.
They still use a chain ferry, for one the crossings from England to Wales. In the place called Swansea. It is used because of the high current.
I had no idea about these...I couldn't even have imagined the way it functioned. I know about the river crossing ferries that use perpendicular component of the river current to go back and forth, that's ingenious too, but this is completely different.
I wondered about boat trains after they were mentioned in the Downton Abbey series
Thanks for the video
So pleased to hear about something I'd never heard of. Thanks!
Cable ferries is both plentiful still in use today. While replaced chain with cables, its basically do the same thing
(granted, cable ferries typically spool up the cable in stead of just passing it.
The spool system was actually used by the chain boats in the very beginning but naturally that was point a to b. The chain boats here actually could operate along the whole river
This reminds me of a Book about ships chapter called "freak ships" about the SS Connector. Designed as a multiple articulated hulls module designed to contour the rough waves. The ship scrapped after the first sea trial after disappointing results.
I have seen a use of this system for a ferry across the River Blyth between North Blyth & South Blyth in North East England. Admittedly nowhere near so long but using a chain along the bed of the river & an on board steam engine to power it. This was in the early 1960’s when it was already an anachronism.
FYI Draught (or draft in the US) is pronounced "draft"
Thanks to UA-cam, and my own insatiable appetite for more weird knowledge, I've heard of a lot of weird vehicles, particularly odd aircraft. However I'd NEVER heard of these before. They look so cool too! 😮
That said, I'd imagine one other downside of these is they were probably ridiculously loud for the crew to operate. Large chains traveling over heavy machinery are freakishly loud if you've ever heard them in person.
Can confirm I’ve never heard of water trains until you made this video. Very interesting
When I was playing D&D with my neighbors we did some world building in a kind of steam punk style. I looked up if there was a river equivalent to conventional land-based railway transport. And I found about chain boats. That's the only reason I know about this.
Many car and passenger ferries use chains. One that immediately comes to mind is the one across Poole harbour in Dorset (that's in the UK, for those unfamiliar with geography). I've also seen a report on a chain ferry powered by electricity in Denmark (I think - my memory isn't what it was).
How did they stop the chain from rusting in the river? I am shocked to learn that constantly replacing the chain due to rusting is not a major problem for them.
steel does surprisingly well under water?
and given that non-tidal rivers are fresh water...
Growing up and living in the USA, I hadn't heard of this technology. It was an interesting solution for the times. Like another poster said, it is roughly analogous to a cable car however the motive power is on the craft not in a stationary position. And, similarly, while ingenious, they have more issues than other technologies.
Here, we had a canal heyday from the early to middle 19th century. By, 1850, the railroad was already supreme so, river transport was only practical on the big rivers (Mississippi-Ohio-Missouri), Hudson River etc. This is probably why they never caught on here.
The system worked for quite a time and quite well. Fell only out of use because engines got cheaper and more compact so a classic tug and later the self powered barge replaced them in europe
As for the railroad being "supreme" - ships need a lot less power per ton of freight. So assuming you have a decend net of rivers and channels bulk cargo is better on the water
I could see a reason to bring back a modern version of this for the Mississippi river. To this day boats can carry more lbs. with less energy usage than land vehicles or air vehicles. Since the Mississippi goes from the top of the US to the bottom it seems a wise idea to me and for those green folks I'm surprised they have yet to began shouting it out.
umm, there are still some of these left. they are called "cable barges" or "cable Ferry."
they operate by pulling a cable or chain layed across a river. There are tons of these still running, especially in Australia.
Never knew these existed, lol! This was fascinating, posted this on my community tab!!
Naiads presided over springs and rivers. Neptune was the god of the sea.
Blacksmithing: 😐
Blacksmithing, Japanese: 😮