E9: How Long It Took Me To 'Get Good' As A Professional Comic Book Artist.
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- This is The Ninth Episode of the Visual Scholar Podcast - With Tim Mcburnie.
In this episode, I discuss an amorphous... yet important topic; How long it takes to get 'good'...
I don't think there is really any solid answer to this (or what 'good' even means)... but I wanted to try and share my story. How I went from being a rank amateur... to becoming published... and beyond.
I think the internal dialogue we have with ourselves is often just as important when it comes to these questions. So I focus on how long it took me to get published. Along with how I felt along the way.
My goal here is to be a bit more open and candid. So that hopefully my story and experiences can help you along your journey. (Although admittedly this mostly relates to the struggles I encountered)
Towards the end I also cover some basic tips and takeaways that I will hopefully help you to avoid some of the common pitfalls and mistakes that I ran into on my journey to becoming a professional artist.
This Podcast is designed to help you demystify the world of Art, Productivity, and Creativity. So you can get better faster, and enjoy your Art Journey. We discuss Drawing, Painting, Illustration and Entertainment Design. Along with Productivity and Career Advice.
The Visual Scholar Podcast is designed to help you demystify the world of Art, Productivity, and Creativity. So you can get better faster, and enjoy your Art Journey.
We discuss Drawing, Painting, Illustration and Entertainment Design. Along with Productivity and Career Advice.
Find Visual Scholar as an Audio Podcast Here:
Apple: podcasts.apple...
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6VbdwbiZqy8nqb90ruKQCX?si=21b9c1d02c85419f
Show homepage on The Drawing Codex:
www.thedrawingcodex.com/podcasts/the-visual-scholar
Learn more about Tim Mcburnie:
Learn Drawing and Illustration at The Drawing Codex: www.thedrawingcodex.com
Check out The Drawing Codex UA-cam Channel:
/ @thedrawingcodex
Portfolio: www.timmcburnie.com
www.artstation.com/tim-mcburnie
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timmcburnie
Ok so this one ended up being a bit more about me and my journey. Hopefully it helps out some people who are thinking about these issues. Let me know if you would like to hear more of these personal story style episodes...
Sometimes we get caught up in an infinite web of "minimum requirements" that are completely illusory, while also being convinced of another illusion: the good artists we admire were always this good. This double set of illusions creates the pressure of doing everything at the same time - drawing form, tones, anatomy, color, composition, perspective, rendering, storytelling, panel arrangement, lettering - that will leave you a mediocre generalist at most of these, and severely inferior to the "art gods" that have been publishing for years and years. They didn't struggle as much as us, they had everything figured out soon. Their path is so much different than ours, which means we have a problem, we are not good, not talented, and should just give up.
I think you did a good job demistifying both of these dangerous notions that SO MANY TIMES have discouraged me and many other artists. I too have always wanted to do comics, but I've always doubted myself due to these illusions, so I've gone a completely different way in life. It may sound weird, but as a 27 y/o engineer I'm in the middle of my second, heartfelt comic story, after a 10 pages demo done two years ago. I'm finally telling what I wanted to tell, expressing the style I've always wanted to show, and I'm not going to stop again.
To everyone that may be struggling to just exercise their craft without pain, without constantly judging themselves harshly, I say this: Tim's advice on "just do pages" is golden.
The path will reveal itself WHILE you draw, while you draw pages and do storyboards and lettering etc...
You will find what you have to get good at BY working, you will find the limits and the evolutions of your style BY working.
Don't fall in love with any preliminary vision about your project, have a full storyboard ready before you start with the definitive pencils, and then let the craft sing.
Thanks, Tim, this episode is what I needed to hear today.
I always wanted to tell stories. When I tried writing comics, I found my perfect way of expressing my story.
Thank you very much for everything you do. I'd love to see a video on how to pursue art while having a day job.
From what I took away, work on your skills, but don't wait until your skills are perfect. There are various components to making different comics. Ultimately, your ability to connect with your audience and belief in your own skills matters more than perfecting a single skill. Also, thanks for differentiating between the storytelling elements of different comics. This helps with initially learning the basics and then focusing on a specific approach.
Yep!! Right on!
Thank you Mr. Tim. Listening to your journey while learning and drawing my own comic is inspirational. Like your country, my country also doesn't have a comic book market. But I'm gonna master the craft. One day It will pay off...
Hey Tim!
I'm only some 10 minutes into the video but when you started to talk about having a week to finish a page on the BD French marked it got me thinking.
Since you probably have a file with ideas for videos, I think you should note it down to make a demo on your other channel on how you would break down each day of that week, or the project as a whole. And maybe also the level of finish you think is good to have on that market, even though I know it's a very diverse market in terms of art for BDs.
Thank you for yet another source of learning!
Awesome idea! Yeah planning those weeks and getting the pacing right over a long schedule time is tricky.
Great again, thank you for your eye opening (and I'd say really encouraging) humidity!
interesting on just doing the comic work to get better at making comics.
As someone who is learning drawing later in life (mid-40s), this was really helpful. I'm not sure where I'll go with drawing, whether it will just be for fun, for a side-hustle or something full-time down the road, but your insights have been really enlightening. Thank you again!
That's awesome to hear! Thanks for letting me know how these are helping out!
Great video. I would love to see your workspace. Where you go every day to create.
Haha, it's super messy :) Not Instagram worthy at all. Maybe I'll make a video of it one day though.
Fantastic video as usual! That journey helps solidify the path taken by another. This will resonate with artists in their respective paradelle paths. Thanks for the great content **Coughmentorshipcough**
Thanks! Haha, yeah I would love to do some mentorships and classes again one day. My schedule is super packed right now (Not sure if you have sent me an email about a possible mentorship before, but I have seen you mention it in comments!). It's hard for me to find the time to dedicate to doing mentorships properly. I am normally barely keeping up with comments or email. I am slowly cleaning up my schedule though, so it might be possible at some point. It's something I would want to put a lot of time into planning properly.
@@Tim-Mcburnie Totally understand, Thanks for the reply. If you ever offer it I'll be first in line lol. If I can help in anyway to, id more than happy. @wzrdpwrs
Again thanks for the amazing content. I kind of gave up on my comics journey. So many people when i was younger talking about "need to make a living!" I ended up getting into graphic design. You and a couple others on UA-cam have really reignited that comic hunger.
🤘🤘
Only a couple minutes in but its already great. I thought I'd drop a comment to help you and the algorithm for your work. Thanks again, Tim.
Much appreciate!!
Thanks a lot for your great insights!! I ve followed your videos for a time ans I think the insights are really great!! Thanks a lot for sharing with us
Thanks!!
I have a really hard time with the mentality of "just do it" though...
I have a comic idea, I have a first draft of the script with a rough panelling and composition. I'm not looking for a specific style (western, BD or manga) but since you worked with french BD artist, you may have heard of Lanfeust of Troy, which is one of my main inspiration.
Anyway, I have my idea, I have my draft, haven't started working on the storyboard yet but .... my anatomy is kinda lacking in lot of places, my environment skills are complete garbage and my creature/animals drawing are even worse. I can get a relatively dynamic pose but can't quite turn it 360° on the page... and let's not talk about facial features and emotions.
So what, I'm supposed to take that story that I care about, that I spent month trying to tie together properly in a way that would be entertaining and just shit the biggest art-turd ever on it ?
Cause that's what it's gonna be. My art skills aren't even close to what I need to get the quality I want...
You say it's painful to do but it's closer to torture for me honestly. Why would I work on something if I don't care about the result ? And if I care about the result why would I want to do it badly ?
I just don't get it
I totally feel you here. I have a video as a kind of reply in the works. as I think it's an important topic. But I think this is one of the hardest things to deal with for sure.
@@Tim-Mcburnie Ho ! Then I can't wait to see it, maybe it will help me (or just leave me in a deep state of confusion as it often does xD)
@@yopomdpin6285 Haha :) Yeah I think confusion/hesitation/etc all come out to play on this topic. I just put it up. So hopefully it helps in some way. I think it's a good topic to discuss and I appreciate you dropping the comment to get me thinking about it properly. I have some other ideas for future episodes which relate to starting and managing these types of projects too.
Good Luck! I know Lanfeust of Troy for sure. It sounds like it should be fun :)
@@Tim-Mcburnie Thank you for you hard work (and still take time to answer youtube comment, that's truly awesome)
In music we don't expect an opera singer to be a great rapper and death metal vocalist also. It's odd that people don't view art topics that way.
Hi, I've heard a student critique your line and color academy that it's quite wordy/long-winded, but I'm sure there's a positive aspect of that as well. What do you think of that? Are there any pros and cons of your course in your head that you'd like to share, or do you think it's all already been discussed on the store page?
P.S. Love the podcasts
I think that is a fair critique. I tend towards unpacking things in detail. And if you listen to most of the stuff I put out it’s rarely edited down too much.
There are lots of real time tutorials in there where I am showing exactly how I go through big illustrations. 20 or more hours of real time narration can be long winded for some :)
Perhaps it would be good to have additional simpler workshops in there. The main critique I have received is people realising it is perhaps too advanced for their skill level (because I put out a lot of basic Drawing tutorials on UA-cam it’s easy to assume the line and colour academy has a similar focus on basic Drawing).
I think one of my main critiques of the course right now (may 2023) is that my ability to make videos has improved a lot since I made the bulk of the course in 2021. So there are a lot of parts I am planning to update. Some of the videos are A bit slow and could be made more entertaining. I’m working on updating things and addressing all of the feedback I have received over the last 18 months. I want to make it more accessible for beginners and have a pathway for people who prefer guided linear progress. + add procreate and clip studio demos as I know a lot of people are not into photoshop these days.
I’m pretty self critical so there are a million things I would like to improve about it :) if you have any extra information on what could be improved or what you would like to see please let me know!
Putting the course out there and seeing how people use it and what they want has helped me to understand the online course space a lot better. All my previous experience had been in live classroom demos and university curriculum. Which is a slightly different set of people. I think I was mostly imagining that audience when I made the course originally.
@@Tim-Mcburnie That sounds great, thank you very much for the explanation. When something is good, I love there being a lot of it. For example, I’m a fan of Aaron Blaise’s extended drawing demos, and I learn a lot from seeing people in real time.
I suppose my style as a student is not very apt to classroom and university style teaching - at least, I don’t find curriculums and generic paths to success as optimal (though I think it may be useful for “getting on track”). I can definitely stomach anything and find little ways to enjoy it, so I’m trying to rationally experiment and think about what helps me to get where I want to be, since I could do anything ;)
After extended reflection, I think paid one-on-one mentorships are the next thing I’ll want to experiment with - dialogues about art enthuse me and make me ask better questions about myself, and I guess that’s a great benefit I get from podcasts. The intimacy of one-on-one dialogues may also be very special.
From afar, not having taken your course yet, I love how focused it seems to be. Line and color for illustration. I always trust someone has done a better job when they didn’t try to solve every problem at once - this is a very true thing in software development, where specific software does a way better job than generic software, because the problems can be efficiently solved.
I have the Line and Color Academy in the back of my mind as a potential way to broaden my mindset and process in that particular direction, and I may enjoy going through it some day. :)
Hey Tim, great video! I asked this on an older video, but I'll ask it again here but are your views on AI still the same, even with it's current state?
Sorry I missed your last comment on this. Yes bottom line is that I haven't changed my main thesis much. I think it isn't the problem a lot of people are making it out to be. Generative models seem to be getting better (which I said there was no proof of back in 2022... but yeah they do seem to be improving... I'm not sure what they are improving at exactly or if it will help them to be useful in any way shape or form.. but many of the problems that were present in the actual generated work seem to be being addressed as they improve). I still find it hard to see a future where an artist can be replaced by AI without also having major structural change to every other job sector and business structure on earth... at which point all bets are off, and we see where the chips fall... but I would bet on art/creativity being one of the skills to have the most value going forward.
I mentioned in previous videos that I see a future where fewer people could build great products aided by AI... I feel that was taken to mean this current state of generative AI LLM stuff... which I don't think is going to be the case. What is going around right now seems utterly useless for most actual production workflows. It will take a huge revolution in tools and systems to get where it needs to be. Not to mention the legal challenges facing the core training data. The tools that are actually useful have been around for a long time before any generative AI LLM text to image generators became popular (think selection tools in photoshop... UA-cam algorithms, etc etc). I think there will be a revolution in tools which will change everything.
I 100% agree with the ethical/legal side of it that has been well outlined by other youtubers and prominent artists. Big companies that have been screwing over artists for a hundred years... will continue to do so. Companies that treat artists like replaceable production robots... will keep doing just that. And honestly if all AI would just bugger off or never be invented... it would make my life and future planning a lot easier and better :). I have no interest in it really. It's not like I don't see the threat of it to art jobs... I just think the future casting is not as simple as people are making out... And I think other people are much better at addressing the ethical/moral side of the equation. Whereas my goal is to break things down and focus on what opportunities will or will not be available in the future. It's a great wake up call for a lot of people... I think it brings to light many ways that artists and creatives are treated poorly by large companies (and taken for granted by society in general).
I actually have a really big series of videos planned which will go into way way more depth. As I understand people are freaking out.
It's a huge tangle of legal and ethical problems mixed with technology hype. So many ways it could change or go in a different direction. For sure there are major problems and disruptions that are obvious. But I tend to think there will be more new opportunities for artists created vs opportunities or roles lost.
If you think differently or have any advice let me know! Keen to know what other people are tracking. There are pile of base assumptions and principals that I am using as a foundation for my stance on this. So it's easy to see what I am saying as perhaps flippant. But I have certainly thought it through...
@@Tim-Mcburnie Thanks alot for replying! I have been discouraged recently from continuing to study fundamentals. If I could relate it to this video, I am still in the range of your initial 5 years. Technology will continue to advance whether we like it or not, so I tried messing around a bit with AI image generation and I absolutely hate it. I fully acknowledge how impressive the technology is, but it just doesn't give that same level of satisfaction of actually fully engaging with whatever it is you are creating. I'll probably still continue learning how to make good art, even if I can't make a career out of it, but I absolutely dread the possibility of a hypothetical future, possibly 10 or 20 years from now, where this is so normalized that making art with your own hands makes you look like a wierdo the same way it would be weird to ride a horse on a highway in 2023.
@@Tim-Mcburnie Plus to add on I agree with what you said about society taking creatives for granted. Scrolling through subreddits, youtube videos, articles etc. it really feels like artists are in the minority. Aside from the labor aspects, I'm also worried about the quality of art in general moving forward. I kinda just got this idea while watching the "Draftsmen" podcast episode also about AI, when Stan said something like how no one does painted movie posters anymore, and he also said that modern movie posters (which are basically photbashed rather than painted) are bad, but are getting better recently. This kinda made me think how I was born in an era where movie posters were always photobashed. I always thought that movie posters looked okay, cool even, I'm not really crazy about them but I don't think they're bad in particular, but it made me think that if I grew up in a time where movie posters were painted by hand, I could definitely see how modern movie posters would be "bad" in comparison. My point is, even the best AI art that I have seen, although look very solid, they just give off this very "artificial" feel to them. It's like you could just tell that a machine did it, no matter how "legit looking" the final product is, but future generations could see this artificiality as normal or even good. But I guess art changes along with the time period, and I have no right to tell anyone what they should see as "good art" or "bad art". Maybe even Da Vinci would call regular digital art "soulless". I don't want to sound like I'm "gatekeeping art" but it just makes me sad thinking of the possibility of a future where people no longer value the artistic process, because I think the process is just as beautiful and fulfilling as the result, and "artists" in the future may just see it as unnecessary.
@@timduncan5343 Yeah I totally get where you are coming from on this. Although I have a lot of confidence about the utility of art fundamentals going forward... Everyone has to have confidence and commitment to their chosen career path. And I am always wary of giving any kind of money or career advice. So much of success in any given endeavour depends on the individual, and you are the best one to figure out what opportunities you have going forward.
Although I am in a good spot career and finance wise now... it was certainly a tough road with many seeming dead ends and impossible barriers. So I never want to make out like an art career is easy...
I have not tried any AI at all. I know from experience that I don't like typing and checking boxes and sliding sliders as a way to create things (I was never that interested in Photobashing or 3D... and although I can do it... it's not as fun as drawing for me). I feel that eventually tools will be created for artists that incorporate AI that is ethical and sensible, and geared towards helping with the things I want help with... automating the things that are repetitive.
I view AI we have now as being the same as punch card computers... it's cool... but it will get better from a user interface pov. And once it becomes usable and better, the things it does will be incomprehensible to the folk who created and used it right in the beginning :) I am fully confident that spending time on it now is a total waste of energy. Especially for artists.
Keep in mind that the way I create art now on a computer with a giant Cintiq would seem like not real art to many people from the pre-digital era. I think you are right that often the commercial art machine moves towards utility and thus we lose a lot of great things like painted movie posters which were a result of many great artists and craftspeople getting amazing results and being able to inject it into commercial art.
I have no idea what the future will hold, or how artists will be viewed. But I think there will be more and more opportunities for people to create things outside the commercial machine using smaller business models that will become increasingly attractive once we get better technology.
@@timduncan5343 In regards to society taking artist's for granted. I think this is a narrative we have let society paint us into. Often the industrial academic machine starts this process by trying to brainwash artists into doing certain things... thinking in a particular way.
When I was starting out I encountered the societal attitude to art and it was very uncomfortable. I was constantly having to remind myself this is a valid pursuit. Once I started working I met a lot of other artists... and now I would say all my close friends are also professional artists. I work primarily with art directors and other artists. we speak the same language... it all seems very valuable to me. But I do occasionally bump into people who see artists in the same way the academic machine tries to paint them... and it's a bit of a wake up call.
There are a few key points here (there is probably a video on this subject... so I'm kind of thinking aloud!)
Firstly - Society always tends to underappreciate artists... I always use the classic example of the school teacher who tells kids to stop drawing manga because it's a waste of time... who then goes and buys their own kid a copy of Naruto... or buys them video games... or subscribes to Disney+ so they can watch cartoons. The Ignorance is off the charts. These people just do not understand the reality that everything around them is created by people. AND that these purchasing decisions are based on quality as defined by the consumer (in this case their children). This is a typical consumer attitude which does not appreciate the value of creation and it's challenges.
Secondly - The argument for AI here is that people don't care and artists will have less value and will finally be treated like the school teacher sees fit... as a waste of time career. BUT that argument has a lot of base assumptions are located more in the school teacher logic and not in the free market reality.
In my view... although people do not consciously value art or good design etc etc... they make purchasing decisions that say otherwise. So while people will say one thing... their money goes to artists in the long run.
What artists often lack is the ability to engage the market properly and make the case for quality. Many great entertainment products today that do really well have a strong artistic vision that can be felt. It's an important pillar in creating a product. There is no reason for AI to change that.
I think the market chooses quality if there are adequate choices and true creative vision on offer.
There is also a lot of distortion in todays entertainment/art/design market though. We are coming off major free money investment cycles. Where quality tends to matter less as everyone has money to spend and money is cheap to borrow to make stuff for large corporations.
If everyone is using industrial sludge AI art to do things on the cheap... products made with more human input will probably stand out. There is a very high likelihood that this stuff will become boring and unfashionable after a while. And what will be needed and valued, as always, is creativity and human intention...