Funny thing is that Genesis does not say that the Universe had a beginning. It actually teaches creatio ex materia and God taking that material and giving it form and function - basically order from chaos!
Read Job 38:9, go back and read the creation account, and do it all with the understanding that the framework has God hovering over the Earth. Lastly, when it says he “made the sun, moon, stars” it is in a complete verb form in Hebrew which means it is not stating at what point before that moment he made them. If you want to disbelieve, Satan will make it very easy. If you want the TRUTH, seek and ye shall find. You cannot grasp truth in subjects as complex as God by scratching at the surface and thinking well enough.
@@michaeltaylor981 “read the religious text that I believe, and make sure you frame it up just the right way so that it makes sense.” Nah man. I appreciate the offer but I’m good. If you wanna believe that book, have at it!
@@michaeltaylor981 "If you want to disbelieve, Satan will make it very easy. If you want the TRUTH, seek and ye shall find." Christians always say this, but I've been seeking god's truth for decades and haven't found anything.
@@m-ox2tx i would ask: "was it always assumed to be metaphorical, or did that interpretation conveniently rise to prominence after the development of the scientific revolution?"
@@The_Orphanizer Not necessarily, or else that would position most interpretations of the Bible as literal before a certain point which would be taking the argument as it's most undesirable angle. Certain stories are obviously meant to be metaphorical in nature, so the idea then becomes how much of the Bible can be looked at as metaphorical as a valid interpretation. Which is why the Bible can neither condone or condemn anything, not only because of its heavily contradictory nature but because of how one Christian may look at it when compared to another Christian.
Not really. He said the scientific method reveals his belief. The only issue is that the scientific method requires observation and must be repeatable and since no one has observed it this is not scientific.😮
@@Xulios16No, the scientific method requires evidence, not direct observation. Besides, this is not the point of the comment. The comment intended to say, that the person thought that Alex was the clear winner in the debate !!!in their opinion!!!. If you check the comments underneath the original debate you will find a lot of comments which use very strong language to express how much Alex won this debate. They write about "massacre", "genocide", "murder", "slaughter", "destroy". Note that those are attempts to make clear that Alex not just won in their opinion, but won in such a convincing way, that just stating "Alex won" sounds like an understatement. It's totally fine if you don't share that opinion.
@@Xulios16 I once heard Brian Cox say something on a JRE episode in the lines of 'If you can't measure something, it does not exist' The scientific method doesn't always provide observable evidence but as long as you can measure it, you can prove it
@@eddymuigai3909 Yeah I think that's a logically false statement. One cannot measure love or measure consciousness etc etc. But it is as real as the air you breathe.
@@Xulios16 I think that the Earth is "real" in a different way than love or by extension consciousness is "real" though. Yeah, consciousness is real, but is it a real tangible thing, or simply chemical reactions in the brain that we can measure. Of course it's more than the sum of its parts, which makes it the greatest mystery to modern biology, but it's certainly intangible, though real. In the same way God is intangible, making it impossible to prove or disprove, however there is a little less than an infinite amount more evidence for consciousness "existing" than god. Really difficult to discuss such things over text, but you've brought up a super interesting point about the very concept of existence (tangible and intangible) itself.
Well, if it’s that ambiguous, then it’s not worth reading. How people think the Bible is a book to be followed when everything can be so skewed by personal interpretation is bonkers. Oh ya a God wrote this book 🤪 clearly ancient Middle Easter tribal males wrote the book.
Hey there, God loves you❤️, please read everything thank you.😊🙏 Discover True Hope and Unconditional Love Hey there! Did you know that God loves you more than you can imagine? He created you and desires a close relationship with you. The Bible tells us in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." 1 John 4:9-10 says, "This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins." ❤️📖 Our Problem: We all make mistakes, which the Bible calls sin. Sin separates us from God and creates chaos in our lives. Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This sin separates us from God and leads to spiritual death. Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." God's Solution: Here’s the incredible part: God loves us so much that He sent Jesus, His Son, to solve our sin problem. Romans 5:8 tells us, 'But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.' Jesus lived a perfect life and willingly died on the cross for our sins. Then He rose from the dead, demonstrating His power over sin and death.🙏✝️ What We Need to Do: God offers us a fresh start and eternal life through Jesus. To receive this gift, we must repent-turn away from our sins, believe in Jesus, and choose to follow Him. Acts 3:19 says, 'Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.' (Romans 10:9 assures us, 'If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.🕊️🙌 Reasons to believe: 1. Countless individuals, including me, have encountered God in deeply personal ways-through answered prayers, supernatural phenomena, miraculous healings, and transformative encounters that defy logical or scientific explanation affirming the existence of a higher power, which we believe to be God. Furthermore, witnessing demonic activity and the reality of spiritual warfare underscores the existence of a supernatural realm. These experiences not only highlight the battle between good and evil but also demonstrate the necessity of seeking God's protection and love. These experiences often bring a profound sense of awareness, peace, purpose, and assurance of God’s presence and love in their lives.🌟✨ "So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." Isaiah 41:10 2. Life Transformation: People from diverse backgrounds and circumstances have experienced radical life changes through faith in Jesus Christ. They’ve overcome deep-seated addictions, healed from emotional wounds, and found renewed hope and direction. Their stories of transformation stand as powerful testimony to the life-changing power of the gospel.🌿🌈 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Corinthians 5:17 3. Historical Evidence: The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ are not only central to Christian faith but are also supported by substantial historical evidence. Numerous non-Christian historical sources and early Christian writings corroborate key events, affirming the credibility of Jesus’ existence, crucifixion, and the empty tomb.📜🌍 4. Fulfillment of Prophecies: Jesus fulfilled numerous prophecies from the Old Testament Scriptures that were written centuries before His birth. These prophecies include specific details about His birthplace, lineage, suffering, death, and resurrection. The fulfillment of these prophecies provides compelling evidence of Jesus’ divine identity as the promised Messiah.🌟✝️ 5. Logical Consistency: Faith in God through Jesus Christ offers a coherent worldview that addresses humanity’s deepest existential questions. It provides a framework for understanding the meaning of life, the reality of suffering, and the possibility of forgiveness and redemption. This faith does not require ignoring facts but rather integrates historical, philosophical, and experiential evidence into a compelling narrative of truth and hope.🧠💡 6. Transformed Communities: Throughout history and even today, communities of believers in Jesus Christ have demonstrated remarkable unity, sacrificial love, and positive societal impact. From charitable works and social justice initiatives to advancements in education and healthcare, the gospel has inspired individuals and communities to live out their faith in tangible ways that benefit society as a whole.🌍❤️ 7. Personal Relationship with God: Beyond mere intellectual belief, faith in Jesus Christ opens the door to a deep, personal connection with God. Through prayer, worship, and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, believers engage in ongoing communion with God. This relationship brings profound spiritual fulfillment, guidance, and an increasing awareness of His presence in their lives. It's not just about knowing about God but experiencing His love and guidance firsthand, shaping a meaningful and transformative journey of faith.🫂❤️🔥 Simple Prayer of Response: Heavenly Father, Thank You for loving me unconditionally and for sending Your Son, Jesus, to die for my sins. I confess that I’ve made mistakes, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again to give me new life. I invite Him into my heart as my Savior and Lord. Please help me to follow You faithfully and to live according to Your will each day. In Jesus’ name, Amen. 🙏✝️ If you prayed this prayer sincerely, congratulations! You’ve begun a wonderful journey with God. Here are some steps you can take to grow in your faith: 1. Find a Church: Look for a local church, where you can learn more about God, worship with others, and build supportive relationships. I recommend the Catholic Church because Im a Catholic Christian.⛪🤝 2. Read the Bible: Start reading the Bible regularly to discover more about God’s love, His promises, and how He wants you to live.📖🕊️ 3. Pray: Spend time in prayer every day, talking to God and listening for His guidance and comfort.🙌🌿 4. Connect with Others: Surround yourself with fellow believers who can encourage and support you in your spiritual journey.🌟🤗 5. Live Out Your Faith: Seek opportunities to serve others, show kindness, and share God’s love with those around you.🌍❤️ My Note: • I recommend you to pray The Divine Mercy Chaplet daily at 3pm. • I recommend you to pray the Holy Rosary (1-2x daily) or praying in tongues daily. • I recommend you to pray The Angelus prayer, The Lord's prayer, Hail Mary prayer, St. Michael prayer, Angel of God prayer, Glory be prayer daily. I recommend you to pray these prayers (3x daily): (Morning) 6am, (Noon) 12pm, and (Evening) 6pm. Recommended Christian YT channels: 1. The Catholic Crusade 2. Last Days 3. Sid Roth It's Supernatural 4. Sensus Fidelium 5. David diga Hernandez 6. Vlad Savchuk 7. Isaiah Saldivar 8. Brother Hyeok 9. Richard Lorenzo Jr. 10. DLM Christian Lifestyle 11. Bible Project 12. Ascension presents There are many more on YT if you research. Matthew 7:7, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." Remember, God has a plan and purpose for your life, and He promises to be with you every step of the way. Jeremiah 29:11 says, "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."🌟🕊️ God bless you, and remember-Jesus loves you, I love you, and together, we can experience the fullness of God’s amazing love. 😊🙏❤️ #JesusChrist #Christianity #GodsLove #FaithJourney #EternalLife #Prayer #SpiritualJourney #ShareTheGospel
If one's interpretation of the book of truth counters that one's interpretation of the book of nature, then one's interpretation(s) of one or both must be wrong. Hypothesis: the Bible is the Book of Truth; and nature is truthful.
Hey there, God loves you❤️, please read everything thank you.😊🙏 Discover True Hope and Unconditional Love Hey there! Did you know that God loves you more than you can imagine? He created you and desires a close relationship with you. The Bible tells us in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." 1 John 4:9-10 says, "This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins." ❤️📖 Our Problem: We all make mistakes, which the Bible calls sin. Sin separates us from God and creates chaos in our lives. Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This sin separates us from God and leads to spiritual death. Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." God's Solution: Here’s the incredible part: God loves us so much that He sent Jesus, His Son, to solve our sin problem. Romans 5:8 tells us, 'But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.' Jesus lived a perfect life and willingly died on the cross for our sins. Then He rose from the dead, demonstrating His power over sin and death.🙏✝️ What We Need to Do: God offers us a fresh start and eternal life through Jesus. To receive this gift, we must repent-turn away from our sins, believe in Jesus, and choose to follow Him. Acts 3:19 says, 'Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.' (Romans 10:9 assures us, 'If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.🕊️🙌 Reasons to believe: 1. Countless individuals, including me, have encountered God in deeply personal ways-through answered prayers, supernatural phenomena, miraculous healings, and transformative encounters that defy logical or scientific explanation affirming the existence of a higher power, which we believe to be God. Furthermore, witnessing demonic activity and the reality of spiritual warfare underscores the existence of a supernatural realm. These experiences not only highlight the battle between good and evil but also demonstrate the necessity of seeking God's protection and love. These experiences often bring a profound sense of awareness, peace, purpose, and assurance of God’s presence and love in their lives.🌟✨ "So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." Isaiah 41:10 2. Life Transformation: People from diverse backgrounds and circumstances have experienced radical life changes through faith in Jesus Christ. They’ve overcome deep-seated addictions, healed from emotional wounds, and found renewed hope and direction. Their stories of transformation stand as powerful testimony to the life-changing power of the gospel.🌿🌈 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Corinthians 5:17 3. Historical Evidence: The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ are not only central to Christian faith but are also supported by substantial historical evidence. Numerous non-Christian historical sources and early Christian writings corroborate key events, affirming the credibility of Jesus’ existence, crucifixion, and the empty tomb.📜🌍 4. Fulfillment of Prophecies: Jesus fulfilled numerous prophecies from the Old Testament Scriptures that were written centuries before His birth. These prophecies include specific details about His birthplace, lineage, suffering, death, and resurrection. The fulfillment of these prophecies provides compelling evidence of Jesus’ divine identity as the promised Messiah.🌟✝️ 5. Logical Consistency: Faith in God through Jesus Christ offers a coherent worldview that addresses humanity’s deepest existential questions. It provides a framework for understanding the meaning of life, the reality of suffering, and the possibility of forgiveness and redemption. This faith does not require ignoring facts but rather integrates historical, philosophical, and experiential evidence into a compelling narrative of truth and hope.🧠💡 6. Transformed Communities: Throughout history and even today, communities of believers in Jesus Christ have demonstrated remarkable unity, sacrificial love, and positive societal impact. From charitable works and social justice initiatives to advancements in education and healthcare, the gospel has inspired individuals and communities to live out their faith in tangible ways that benefit society as a whole.🌍❤️ 7. Personal Relationship with God: Beyond mere intellectual belief, faith in Jesus Christ opens the door to a deep, personal connection with God. Through prayer, worship, and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, believers engage in ongoing communion with God. This relationship brings profound spiritual fulfillment, guidance, and an increasing awareness of His presence in their lives. It's not just about knowing about God but experiencing His love and guidance firsthand, shaping a meaningful and transformative journey of faith.🫂❤️🔥 Simple Prayer of Response: Heavenly Father, Thank You for loving me unconditionally and for sending Your Son, Jesus, to die for my sins. I confess that I’ve made mistakes, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again to give me new life. I invite Him into my heart as my Savior and Lord. Please help me to follow You faithfully and to live according to Your will each day. In Jesus’ name, Amen. 🙏✝️ If you prayed this prayer sincerely, congratulations! You’ve begun a wonderful journey with God. Here are some steps you can take to grow in your faith: 1. Find a Church: Look for a local church, where you can learn more about God, worship with others, and build supportive relationships. I recommend the Catholic Church because Im a Catholic Christian.⛪🤝 2. Read the Bible: Start reading the Bible regularly to discover more about God’s love, His promises, and how He wants you to live.📖🕊️ 3. Pray: Spend time in prayer every day, talking to God and listening for His guidance and comfort.🙌🌿 4. Connect with Others: Surround yourself with fellow believers who can encourage and support you in your spiritual journey.🌟🤗 5. Live Out Your Faith: Seek opportunities to serve others, show kindness, and share God’s love with those around you.🌍❤️ My Note: • I recommend you to pray The Divine Mercy Chaplet daily at 3pm. • I recommend you to pray the Holy Rosary (1-2x daily) or praying in tongues daily. • I recommend you to pray The Angelus prayer, The Lord's prayer, Hail Mary prayer, St. Michael prayer, Angel of God prayer, Glory be prayer daily. I recommend you to pray these prayers (3x daily): (Morning) 6am, (Noon) 12pm, and (Evening) 6pm. Recommended Christian YT channels: 1. The Catholic Crusade 2. Last Days 3. Sid Roth It's Supernatural 4. Sensus Fidelium 5. David diga Hernandez 6. Vlad Savchuk 7. Isaiah Saldivar 8. Brother Hyeok 9. Richard Lorenzo Jr. 10. DLM Christian Lifestyle 11. Bible Project 12. Ascension presents There are many more on YT if you research. Matthew 7:7, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." Remember, God has a plan and purpose for your life, and He promises to be with you every step of the way. Jeremiah 29:11 says, "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."🌟🕊️ God bless you, and remember-Jesus loves you, I love you, and together, we can experience the fullness of God’s amazing love. 😊🙏❤️ #JesusChrist #Christianity #GodsLove #FaithJourney #EternalLife #Prayer #SpiritualJourney #ShareTheGospel
*ANSWER is SIMPLE:* *When you actually read the Genesis chapter 1 we realize all the creative days are being described from the point of view as if a human was standing on the Earth throughout the creation periods. That's it. Now go read it, smack yourself in your forehead, and mumble "duh".*
@@sarvolfe6435 *I think you're referring to church doctrine not the Bible. No translation of the Bible has ever said the Earth is at the center of the universe.* *But then again that is an ongoing problem throughout history. Religious organizations and institutions twisting the word of God to suit their own goals in manipulating the dumb masses. Anti-biblical teachings such as hellfire, immortality of the soul, paid clergy, and perhaps one of the greatest lies -- Jesus is Almighty God? No he's not. Stupid. All of it.*
@@LagSpikeX *Yes, when we read the Bible we hear repeatedly how God inspired some humans to write down his thoughts and instructions. One of the many features of the Bible is how Jehovah honors us by providing a human perspective on a vast array of subjects. Sometimes he will provide visions to a human that allows them to both see and experience things that no human would be able to otherwise. As an example he has projected their consciousness into the future through accurate prophecy and other times allowed a person to view events of the distant past. Genesis definitely qualifies as a distant past event and thus, we receive a beautiful perspective of creation as if standing on the planet throughout the billions of years of formation.*
He's not really even arguing though. He just brushes it aside or moves the goal post whenever he can't handle his way of thinking or interpreting is challenged.
Yeah, but I think it’s equally embarrassing to assert that the universe had a beginning. Sure, we don’t have evidence of what preceded this “beginning,” and science is loathe to proclaim things without evidence, but something was definitely always and infinitely there. I see the universe more as a container of sorts that holds properties of various types in perpetual states of flux. When one area of the universe is expanding another is contracting. Where a seeming void exists in one area of the universe another area is teeming with activity.
I haven’t seen that debate yet, but funnily enough if you watch the intro to this discussion two moderators discuss the Hitchens v Denish debate and they both agree that Denish got the better of Hitchens. Again, I haven’t seen it and can’t draw an opinion yet, but that’s what the commenters from Pangburn (the hosts of this discussion) said.
50/50 shot, also it's hard to imagine something not having a beginning. That's why God's in almost all religions have a beginning, few Religions imagine a God that exists without a beginning.
And Hebrew scholars generally consider versions of the bible with “In the beginning God created…” to be a bad translation. The first phase should be more like “When God began to create…” and have him working from pre-existing materials.
Because Genesis is not a History book but one of myths as most of the Bible, understanding myth as a narrative to explain something profund not easily explained otherwise. Some events described are historic but many are not If you defend the Bible validation as an History book, you will always loose
Interestingly enough it mentions earth twice. Heaven and earth in the beginning , then light and later on they again mention the division between water and dry land. John Lennox has a pretty good presentation about the seven days of creation that breaks it down very nicely.
Don’t know if it’s a bit of a reach but the first sentence of creation sounds a bit vague - it’s not like they go into detail - they just say earth and the heavens. And I mean that may very well just mean space and matter -
Actually, wherever is a good reader would read the Bible and know that the "light" (sun) was created on the first day not on the fourth day. Science can only discover what God has done. The gentleman is only trying to twist the scriptures to favor his argument. He's either a fraud or he's ignorant.
Alex, I'm an old woman and have to say that I have learned a great deal from you. I so admire your ability to keep your cool and present your arguments with stunning reason and intellect. Bravo!
Come on you can’t be that old ))) I like Alex too. As a matter of fact I was using his videos to learn English way back in a days when he was a kid and younger version of him was not as witty as he is today but surely super intelligent and well versed and listening to him helped to make learning routine more enjoyable.
@@AtriadGamasekav I've got fillings in my teeth way older than Alex. Let's just say I was born the year, "Mr. Sandman" and "Shake Rattle and Roll" were top hits in the US.
Dinesh is still at it, over thinking the simple things to make it sound more complicated than it really is. The giggle to wiggle out of the situation that you completely trapped yourself in and then further compound the situation. Astoundingly mind boggling. 😂
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrueWhen you have to misunderstand truth to even get the point, you're not making a point or telling the truth. But you are right about the truth hurting, bc you've lashed out at like 4 truthful comments on here they hurt you so bad. You know, you can just jump over to the truth here with us and stop hurting, right?
That changed after Alex's opening speech. You can tell when Dinesh stood up and started his opening. You could hear in his voice he started crapping himself realising what he got himself into.
@@subhuman3408care to explain how Alex is bullshiting? or are you just going to assert "bullshit" and hope nobody asks for an example of how? Clearly the video shows who is full of bs. The Bible was worng and the dishonest muppet can't even admit it. Isn't dishonesty suppose to be sinful.
I’ve watched this like 20 times over several days. I’m absolutely in awe that you setup each of these moments so perfectly and he fell for it every time. Like just asking “what day was it that god created the sun? Day four or something like that?” And it sets up the next moment perfectly. Bravo, Alex. This is one of the more perfect moments anyone has ever had on a debate stage.
Alex is being dishonest here the verses (gen 1:14-18) isn't refering to the moon and sun or they wouldve been named but time which creates periods utilising the light (photons) that was created on the first day simarly to what astrophysicts believe so please instead of taking this clip in 20x look for scholarly opinions that differ and explain in more detail what Alex is actually trying to talk about
Ok then... aztubmatt904.... i cant wait to see you up there debating it next so we can all pause, look up your references and form our own conclusions in our own time like we do when (non coward) christians get up there to debate. 🙏🏽❤️
@@jdetres01 what are you on about its not my reference he used it im just stating how Alex's point has been echoed before and is objectively wrong and provide a counteractive view that IS correct
On day 1 God Created the Heavens and the Earth. Believe it or not the Sun is part of Earth. It's just burning up, it's a matter of flesh not divinity. Why are you all saying bravo and praising like you're robots? Does Alex pay for these comments?
@@aztubmatt904 you're debating in the comments, instead of preping for your upcoming debate. you had a month to prep, are you ready? i cant wait to watch and form my own opinions after looking into the things you say! :)
Theist: "My holy book is in alignment with modern science! It's a miracle!" Atheist: "Hold on, here is a scientific contradiction in it" Theist: "Well, it's not a science book!" What in the name of critical thinki- 🤦🏼♂️
Most Christians around the western world dont take the old testament literally. That is something americans share with less developed countries. If you want an interesting debate dont debate fundamentalists be they religious or atheist. Its an easy way to feel smarter but its boring… Jesus was a stoic btw
you know that expert all around the world don't know /agree on how the universe started right !? im just impress that these religious people even knew the concept of outer space and creation with so little technologies,they not more wrong ...
@@funnygaming2672 yeah the origin of the universe is not known and has only been theorized...the formation of the solar system with the earth on the other hand has been deduced by observation and proven
Yeah, cuz all those edits & jump cuts make it really clear what responses were made to which statements. I don’t go to Dinesh for my theology, but the interpretation of Genesis is misleading if you’re looking at it as literal. Let there be light wasn’t the creation of the sun, it was the clearing of the sky/clouds/darkness.
@@markwildt5728when he contradicted what he just said himself. “How did the Bible know?” And knowing are observations, and observations is science, and the Bible is it a scientific book. It all gets confusing and it’s because he rushed out his words
From listening to a few different Hebrew translators, apparently in Genesis the plural "Gods" or variations like "powerful ones" are used. It was the later translations into other languages that changed it from Gods to God. I don't read Hebrew so I've no idea how accurate that is, but there are many translators who seem to agree that the plural is used a lot in Genesis in particular
@@mauddib1761 I've heard the same occasionally online, but it incorrect. "Elohim" is used in the Priestly texts, but it is grammatically singular and functions as a concretized abstract plural (we see this used of other singular deities like Dagon as well). The overwhelming academic consensus is that "Elohim" is a singular figure in the narrative.
If God used a big bang explosion to create everything, then there would probably be some light and heat surrounding the planet before the sun got into it's position.
Why do people assume that our understanding of science and we can argue with God that his ways of working doesn't make sense, ye it does not make sense for us... . Wise orthodox priests explained to me that the light on 1st day came from withing God and it was enough for all the universe, so that light could sustain plants untill God probably said that his light should not be our source of light and created big engines(Stars) with sustenable energy for millenias.
It doesn't necessarily work like that. Consider this: "either some kind of god exists or he/she/it doesn't. You have a 50% chance of guessing correctly." Conclusion: We can't calculate probabilities for events that we don't fully understand.
@@DJ-ct6soThats a false equivalency. We know the universe objectively exists and therefore it either had a begining or it did not. God is not provable and is not supported by any data or science so it is not 50/50 whether he created the universe any more than saying that its 50/50 as to whether a magical otter made the universe.
@@ajax201000Orrrr hear me out. The universe itself is god. It's all powerful, and technically all knowing as everything is apart of the singular universe. It's omnipresent meaning everywhere in all creation at the same time. It created life, and takes life. It can't be destroyed (energy can't be created nor destroyed)
@@Vergil512ah yes, the whole "I'm gonna redefine the whole concept of God so that it fits with what we know about science". Well, maybe God is actually the half-empty box of Cheerios that sits in my cupboard. Who knows!!
God can make it before after or whenever he wanted to make it. The fact of the matter is no human being would or could ever know that. That’s why we have God for.
@@MasterPoppersAlex completely dodged the question and deflected, then had the audacity to accuse Dinesh of moving the goal post... 🤦🏻♂️ What was it you were saying about copium?
Friend and I came up with the notion that the only thing that matters in life is the dash in between the dates on your headstone. It represents everything you did in that time. Everything else you didn’t get a choice.
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth. The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
@@maambomumba6123 so the light arrived before the Sun was visible? Where did the light Come from then? Also, that does not really conforme with this bit ''In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep'' So it does seem the earth was created before light existed. Since ''let there be light'' Comes after. Are we Reading the same Book?
@@myssadonno2759 yes. It’s possible to see the light from a light source but not see the source itself. Genesis 1:2 “says darkness was upon the surface of the watery deep”. Evidently at this point, while the Sun had already been created, it’s light had not yet diffused through Earths atmosphere - hence the darkness. In the very next verse Genesis 1:3 says “let there be light”. It’s at this point in this creation epoch that light diffuses through the atmosphere of the Earth. But the Sun itself as the source of this light is not yet discernible. Only on the fourth creation day does the Sun itself become visible as the sky was evidently clear enough to see the Sun. That’s why Genesis 1:17 refers to “Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth”…describing how the Sun could now be seen by an observer on the Earths surface.
@@maambomumba6123 not for days or epoques. How long does it take for the suns light to get here? Also, do you believe they, the Sun and the earth, were created at the same Time? Or was one created before the other? You believe the earth is round right? So the source of the light would have been visible from half of the planet if there was already light when the earth was created... You also talked about it being the description of an observer, like a physical one?
Old testament is 💯 percent accurate, and if someone thinks he is smarter than God.. your grave going to tell you your not.. but after grave is no repentance.....
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue i think he did(soft steelman/remark) in the beginning of the debate. he even stood up, and his argument bordered on racism. something along the lines that allot of atheist are from Great-Britain and yes it was a stupendous moment. full debate. ua-cam.com/video/UMKkX8qRHsw/v-deo.html
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth. The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
The bible doesn't say the earth was created before the sun. And despite that, different cultures have different ways of listing things. For example in English, we would say "my eyes are blue" but in French they change the order to "blue are my eyes". Ancient cultures may have had different priorities for listing things.
@@maambomumba6123 i’m trying to wrap my head around this too, so I’m an honest observer, but I would challenge you by saying, the genesis account is supposed to be the telling of things given by God. Do you believe that? If you believe that, I don’t think you can take the liberties you took in your answer above.
I love how Alex included a diagram that beautifully demonstrates how the 6 days of creation were not literal, and I dont think he knows it. Pause the video and notice how the top half mirrors the bottom half. It's a parallelism, which is a form of Hebrew poetry. It uses a song-like rhythm to reinforce the message being made. The second part completes the ideas introduced in the first part. The order of the creation events had to be molded to fit the style of poem, not the other way around.
@@gardenandcalico watch how you talk about religion shit face. If let's say we are delusional you are as well believing also theory science is not 100% true like your dumbass thinks
You should remove your lips from Alex's ass and come up for air... Alex is simply your typical dime a dozen UA-cam atheist edgelord. Also, he dodged the question and deflected. He couldn't refute one argument, so he deflected to one he thought he could. Unfortunately Dinesh got rattled and handled it poorly, because if Dinesh would have stayed sharp, not fall for Alex's tactics, and pressed him on the original question, Alex would have come away looking rather foolish.
My take on it is that whoever wrote genesis may have had a vision or something similar about the formation of the Earth, but it may have been difficult to interpret or comprehend for them given the knowledge they had. And so they wrote it out in what seemed to be the most plausible and logical way to them at the time. And so it's difficult to take it as a literal depiction of events.
Any creation story has a beginning. Because, whether it is historical or not, it's a story. That's why so many predict an end to said story, because stories naturally end.
As a Christian, that was a pretty good line. I'm not sure what's up with Dinesh here. I thought he was supposed to be a believer? It's like he's throwing the debate on purpose.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue one-liners can be reasonable or unreasonable, there is no correlation. in this case, his one-liners were completely reasonable, and you have to rebut them with reason, not by calling them one-liners
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth. The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
Technically that objection is debatable. The sun may have actually come first as per “let there be light”. The moon, however, did come later, which would technically mark the creation of the two great lights.
@@JB-ec1bo "The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp" (Revelation 21) ..this scripture is about the new earth in the future. It parallels Genesis. God was the light & he created the sun and moon later to mark signs & times. This transcends science..it's supernatural.
From genesis: And God made the two great lights-the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night-and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. Now are you really going to try to rationalise that this doesn't mean the sun and the moon? :)
@@korpscomacho That scripture was the 4th day. There was a source of light already in Genesis 1:3. No one in this section said verse 16 wasn't about the sun and the moon.
Evolution is true, so is God. Why is that a problem? He created and creation evolves over time. Man's intelligence has evolved in the last 200 years. Sports accomplishments get better and better so we can see evolution in even that sense. Now there isn't a creator because of that? Ya'll are dupid
@@jayreyndogz1791 according to evolution, life came from a chemical soup whereas the Bible claims God created a person (not primitive ape), the genesis account and pseudo-science evolution never agree, and anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly confused
@@theHappyDesigner god creating a person is not inherently a evolution process, but instead a creation process. And one could argue God creating humans is still a evolution process theory. It is called "Divine Selection Theory" as opposed to Charles Darwin's "Natural Selection Theory of Evolution". When I was in highschool every kid was forced to learn evolution, then the next less was Charles Darwin's Natural Selection theory of evolution which our parents had to sign a form saying we were allowed to learn it, as there may be some children whose religion believes in Divine Selection theory. Natural Selection Theory of Evolution VS. Divine Selection Theory of Evolution Evolution is a proven fact. The process of evolution is not. We only have theories. This is all a common misconception. Especially the idea that Evolution & Natural Selection theory are the same thing. They are not.
If one was punching with strawman semantics and twisting words and the other was punching with meaning and purpose.... but only semantics were counted by the reg.
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth. The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
JP seems leagues above D'Souza in terms of intelligence. As a Christian I've never heard of D'Souza , but his defense of the Bible is laughable bad here.
I still enjoy listening to Peterson when he's talking about psychology. It's just when he steps into politics or religion I have to take some of what he says with a grain of salt. I still don't disagree with everything he says though, just some things.
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth. The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth. The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
Alex I've been following your ascend since the beginning, you are one of the few or maybe the only one guy in youtube that i actually feel proud to support.
So lets say i am a game designer. First i design the earth, later i design the sun. The earth needs the sun to orbit around. In fact, when i place the objects into the gameworld, i first place the sun and then add the earth and give it a momentum to stay in orbit around the sun. Not only that, the lore of the game is, that the earth was formed out of dust particles orbiting the sun. Now, i am an amateur and not strong on theology, but what would speak against that analogy?
When we say that this apple was made, scientifically this apple would have come from a seed yeah? Meaning it then came from another apple. This is the "lore" he is talking about.
Heres the fun part now. Say I create a fully grown apple tree first and then a fully grown redwood tree. A fully grown redwood tree is on average maybe a thousand years old whereas a apple tree could be 50 years old. Fascinating how not many people think of this thought. Shows how wonderful all of creation even is
It's like he's doesn't realize he's arguing it's all true so all Alex has to do is point out any of the obvious objective falsehoods or contradictions.
@@amt4653 it's absurd to assert the description is like chronological days but the scripture can not be interpreted as such. Nonetheless for the sake of argument, conceding that here this specific scripture must be interpreted with a meaning that is specifically at odds with what it says, Alex and skeptics have still observed several other blatant falsehoods and contradictions throughout the Bible.
@@amt4653 it's still absurd. Scripture about creation and time being presented as absolutely true yet being written in a way that can be seen as literal or figurative, but was only meant to be read as figurative is bad and silly writing. Even still that means the new standard for the past century that generations of people are taught, the current translations and interpretations of the Bible, are wrong. That's still, perhaps even moreso, a good argument for Christianity being wrong.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue Alex was really straightforward, he usually is. The chronological order asserted by a plain reading of Genesis is objectively wrong. That's not semantical, it's obvious.
@@oldmanwaterfall Attempt to steelman it. Can you find any way to make it work - for one thing. Also - his only point was that the authors of Genesis knew the universe had a beginning. Which coincides with science - but it is not that science that was being addressed in the text. The text of Genesis is refutation of pagan religions that thought the universe was eternal - or that it was created by a bunch of god sex. The pagans thought sea monsters were gods. That the sun and moon were gods. Etc. And Genesis is saying: no, those are all creation. So it's purpose is not science but in refuting perverse, sexually obsessed human-sacrificing pagans. The Bible saying: no, those are all just part of creation - and humans are made in God's image, so stop sacrificing them. That purpose aligns with science, in that it was created - and thus not eternal. Alex ran with that coinciding. And it was ALEX that moved the goalpost of that ONE point, and made it about Genesis being a scientific description. But lets leave all of Alex's misuse of Genesis and science out of the equation for a second. IF you had ANY interest in nuance or deeper thought when it came to the days of creation - and wanted to both see their wisdom AND get it to further align with science... if you wanted to do that.... can you figure out a way to get it to work? As others very easily have. I know Alex wouldn't bother doing that when he can appear smart with low end word games. But give it a shot. Can you make it work?
No - but you can make this work in other ways.... if you want to. And were it an atheist point, the nuance and alternate viewpoints would be welcome - and be called deep. But since you might have to think about it more from a Biblical perspective, people LEAP on the ignorant strawman gotcha horse crap.
@@ModernCelt That with some more thought - you can EASILY reconcile whats going on here. If it were the depths of philosophy - nuance and detail would be welcome. If it were science and evolution - nuance and detail would be welcome. But as it is Biblical thinking - shallow, easy cheap shots are considered slam dunks. No deeper thought or nuance necssary. IT's all pretty dumb. It's funny. If you say: man didn't come from no ape - atheists flip their lid. WE DIDN'T COME FROM APES... WE CAME FROM A COMMON ANCESTOR. Even that level of nuance ... which is pretty basic... is DEMANDED in a non religious topic. And saying "man didn't come from no ape" is kind of the shallow thinking Alex is displaying here. He is the one who shifted the goal post, firrstly. And he is going for cheapshots rather than thinking about: 1. answering the question without changing the subject and switching the point 2. making his own days of creation demand find a way to still easily plausibly work.
DD has no clue as to what he's talking about. His rectally-derived comments are embarrassing. Most anyone I've ever met in a bar is more intelligent than DD.
science got it wrong... all other religions got it wrong. They also either described an eternal universe, or creation via god-sex. They also thought the sun was a god. And the moon. The Bible got a lot of things right in each 50/50 flip.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue the whole idea about falsification that is a base of science is build on being wrong till the end result will can be called the truth. That is the difference of a coin toss and keep what comes and flip the coin so many times no matter how wrong it is till you got the right thing. Or on the other side I bet a lot of other religions got things right where another religion is wrong. But that doesn't progress to all possible rights if we keep staying in religion. And this truth seeking and always being critical of the own self might be what made Christianity so special that it is now the only religion that lead to something we have now as science (in the past they also had similar ideas like especially the Greek. But nothing compared to now is also able to teach it in such a objective way, which needs wrongs to learn out of it. All in the past got Fundamental basics,but beyond that we got the guessing again...... And sadly modern science also loses again thanks to dogmas and ideologies that damn curtain things as wrong just because it does a 50/50 and those things where on the other side without discussing it)
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue explain what meaning? He tried to use science to validate his religion and then when science contradicted his religious assertions he says the Bible is not trying to be scientific truth…. You can’t move the goal post especially if you’re still gonna miss
@@ezshottah3732 No he didn't. He said while addressing spiritual things, it touched on a truth that coincides with the reality of the world we know. It DOES touch on the world being created. It is not addressing science. It is address the world being created by God. But being created by God COINCIDES with having a beginning, and a start, and not being infinite. But the Bible was not really addressing that scientific fact. It was addressing it spiritually. Pagan religions typically thought one of two things: 1. the earth and universe were eternal or 2. the earth and universe were made by gods having sex. The Bible refutes these: God created it. No, the earth is not created by gods having sex. Nor is the earth a sex-having goddess like Gaia. Earth is just a creation. The sun and moon are not gods. They are creation. The animals are creation. Etc. It was addressing these pagan ideas. But the earth being created by God meant it was created and had a beginning. That non-scientific description COINCIDES with science. As science has confirmed that phenomenon as a real happening - even though scientists denied it extensively. Until they were forced into changing their entire cosmology based on proofs and data. He EXPLICITLY says that Genesis is not describing science. It's not. It's describing other truths. And this lead them to knowing the universe had a beginning.... this was beyond any reason for them to think so based on any observation of substances and material. So they knew a truth because it was true. Even if it wasn't a science claim being addressed. It was ALEX that moved to goal post and claimed it was a scientific claim. He did that intentionally. He knew he was avoiding answering the question by changing the subject. Ken Ham is living rent free in Alex's mind or something. That is NOT the only way we address Genesis. The whole can mean something entirely different - and still coincide with science. Like "paths of the sea" being written to praise the power of the Lord - and then being used to discover the ocean currents. That doesn't make that prayerful Psalm a science book. But it noting things God made, it touched on a truth - a truth that coincides with an unknown scientific fact too. Beyond any reason. The writer knew the unknowable.... in writing a praise to God.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue idk where you pulled all that nonsense from but here’s the genesis creation account Gen.1 [1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Literally states that “god” created the earth before the sun. Which is factually incorrect. The earth could not have formed without the gravitational force of the sun(light) look up accretion Again. You can’t move the goal post especially if you’re gonna miss
The obvious answer to why the writers of Genesis 'knew' the universe had a beginning was that they had been born and had probably seen childbirth and guessed based on THAT... We grew out of all the other creation myths, so maybe we'll grow out of this one too!
I used to go to the park behind my house with a huge lake to kill time, skip rocks and stuff. I would often think about how old those rocks were. But, here i was, holding them, controlling them and just flinging them.
The sun, moon, and stars already existed as part of “the heavens” created in “the beginning.” (Genesis 1:1) However, their light evidently did not reach the earth’s surface because of a dense atmosphere. (Genesis 1:2) So although diffused light became visible on the first day, the light’s source was not yet recognizable. On the fourth day, the atmosphere apparently cleared up. The Bible says that the sun, moon, and stars now began to “shine upon the earth,” evidently describing how they would have been seen from the perspective of an observer on earth.
this is what people do when they can't admit they are wrong. It's pathetic and childish. The bible is no more correct than any other ancient "holy book". It's superstitions of ancient people trying to understand nature, before most humans could understand magic isn't real. Unfortunately, there are still humans who can't accept that magic isn't real. No one magically made the universe or anything in it.
@@Mouse_007 On day 4 of the Bible they were: The Fourth Day-Sun, Moon, and Stars 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the sky. These lights will separate the days from the nights. They will be used for signs to show when special meetings[a] begin and to show the days and years. 15 They will be in the sky to shine light on the earth.” And it happened. 16 So God made the two large lights. He made the larger light to rule during the day and the smaller light to rule during the night. He also made the stars. In reality, they were created a long time apart.
@@55Quirll I don't care what the bible says, that is not how planets assemble in our universe. Our moon was part of the earth 4.5 billion years ago until a collision ripped a chunk of the earth off. Our sun formed 4.6 billion years ago just like all other stars in our universe form, by clouds of gasses , not magic. No magic required. Nothing was "created", they form naturally, we can use telescopes and watch it happen in other parts of our universe. Open a science book once in a while and put away your need to believe in magic. MAGIC ISN'T REAL. You are reading about ancient superstitions that have been proven false and you stupidly refuse to learn the truth. This isn't 2000 B.C. anymore, try to act a little smarter than the cave dwellers.
When guessing if the universe had a beginning or not completely at random you will get the correct answer 50% of the times... And plenty of cultures completely separate from judaism have creation myths on their own, they believe that the universe had a beginning. It is the details of that begining what is much harder to guess your way around and so... Every single one of those cultures have got the details wrong. It is like if I predicted that queen Elizabeth would die sometime next year, due to a fatal wolf attack at a zoo. The queen died that year but I got all the details wrong, am I still a miraculous prophet?
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth. The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
@@maambomumba6123 Okay... i am afraid that is also wrong. As the earth was first a rocky planet as it was slowly formed from the collision of debris, with the atmosphere and the ocean coming much later. So the sun was completely visible at all times during the formation of the earth. If there was a time of complete darkness due to the atmosphere that would necessarily come later. The story would have to say that the sun was turn off and the turn on again. But besides... What is even the purpose of telling the story in such a way that would confuse the reader? Isn't the purpose of it to understand how things come into existence? But it is told in a way in which you could never reach the correct conclusion from it. That the sun indeed existed way before the earth and the moon. Why even mention the creation of those two things if the reader wouldn't even get the correct information from it? To me it really doesn't matter that much if there is a possible way to read it so that it makes sort of sense... To me what matters is that whoever read the story would always get the order of events wrong. Would come out with a wrong understanding of how these things came into existence and in what order
@@diegog1853 the darkness is only referred to after the Earth is formed. If the Sun is visible at all times why would Genesis describe the surface of the Earth as dark?
@@maambomumba6123 why would genesis describe it like that? Well I don't know... My guess is that the author didn't know anything about planet formation and so he got it wrong, the surface of the earth wasn't dark at all. It could have some darker/colder periods of course. But it is an on and off situation and it is completely arbitrary to start from there. But more important than that... Even if You can find a contrived scenario in which the content of the book can be said to be true. Why would the book be written in a confusing way which will convey the wrong information to the reader? Anyone that reads it will get the wrong information out of it, that the earth existed first and then the sun. Right? Like to me it really doesn't matter if you can find a way in which it can be technically correct (and I disagree you did it), what matters is if it conveys the correct information to the reader, and it doesn't... It fails completely at that. What is even the point of the book if the readers comes out misinformed about the actual order of events.
That Dinesh carried on believing what he believes with no pause after this exchange tells you everything you need to know about how much rationalization, rather than post-rationalization, is involved.
If anyone is listening, the Genesis creation accounts are not stories of material origins. They are functional origins stories, in dialogue with the prevailing ancient Mesopotamian worldviews of their contemporaries.
@@danielkeizer4174 No, I'm saying it's a home story, not a house story. Homes are made from relationships, memories, hospitality, atmosphere, etc. It has more to do with the people that live together in the house-which itself is made of wood or bricks or stone, and has a history of its own. Neither story is necessarily wrong or fictional.
@@JosiahTheSiah that's a false analogy. And it doesn't adress the problem with the biblical claims not being backed up by observations. So either that didn't happen and it's just a fictional story that's just based on cultural appropriation of myth. Wich is fine ofcourse, but makes it that creation story can't possibly be correct. Or it is descriptive and how this supposed god actually made it, wich isn't what can be seen. Can't harmonize these contradictions.
The writers of Genisis DON'T know that they are assuming that because everything they SEE has a beginning. So Alex should have said "How do you know that they KNOW that? All you know is that they are SAYING that .They could be lying, teasing, mistaken, guessing."
This is not disproving Genesis, no matter how smug this atheist is about it. Genesis states that there is light before the creation of the sun: “And God said, let there be light”. This light is coming from God, an all-powerful being. The physical sun however was not created until God’s fourth ‘day’ as described by Genesis 1:14. So tell me, how is this contradictory to modern science?
Basically in the book it says the sun was created on the fourth day, coming after the first day, when the earth was made, this is false because the sun was there before the earth, there weren’t 4 days where the world sat there with no sun, I believe in god but this part of this book isn’t adding up
@@mattshepherd1736 The source of the light (equivalent to the sun) in the first four days was from God himself. If God created the entire universe, how is it unplausible that he could have produced this light? What else is meant by "Let there be light" on the first day?
So we know sun existed before earth, but bible says opposite. your counter to that is "but light existed before earth" We are talking about THE SUN. Amazing reading and listening comprehension. 5 stars. For effort that is.
@@tatiana4050 Verse 1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Heavens first, then earth. It’s obviously a metaphor. It’s a way simplified way of explaining creation in a flowery style. It’s an artistic expression. God didn’t write it and neither did a scientist. It probably started as a verbal story. People can make fun all they want and knit pick stupid points .. Believing in God will radically change your life for the better, and by your own standards you will be better off
@@Sweet_T4u well that's not what the person in the video argued. And kjv is a very poor translation. And actually working to improve your life will help a lot more than believing in some magical fairy
Full debate available now on Pangburn Philosophy’s UA-cam channel!
This debate is a goldmine for shorts.. Dinesh doesn't need more than 30 seconds to sound stupid
Funny thing is that Genesis does not say that the Universe had a beginning. It actually teaches creatio ex materia and God taking that material and giving it form and function - basically order from chaos!
Wait, Pangburn is still around?? They screwed so many people over back in 2018 with the event that never happened in NYC. Myself included.
I wish you'd been this scathing with Peterson.
Working with criminals and frauds. You must be desperate for that cash Alex
‘You can’t now move the goalposts, especially if you’re still going to miss’
Now THAT was a Hitchslap if ever I’ve heard one.
I think he’s on his way to become more infamous than the great hitch, he is. Mid 20s and is debating the same people
Get hitch slapped 😂😂😂
Do we still need to carry the idol of Hitchens hero worship around?
@@cg1906 Yes. He was incredibly important to the public discourse in these areas.
@@ZombieLover84 💪
“You can’t move the goalposts, especially if you’re still going to miss.” Is one of the best zingers I’ve ever heard.
Read Job 38:9, go back and read the creation account, and do it all with the understanding that the framework has God hovering over the Earth. Lastly, when it says he “made the sun, moon, stars” it is in a complete verb form in Hebrew which means it is not stating at what point before that moment he made them. If you want to disbelieve, Satan will make it very easy. If you want the TRUTH, seek and ye shall find. You cannot grasp truth in subjects as complex as God by scratching at the surface and thinking well enough.
@@michaeltaylor981 “read the religious text that I believe, and make sure you frame it up just the right way so that it makes sense.”
Nah man. I appreciate the offer but I’m good. If you wanna believe that book, have at it!
@@michaeltaylor981 "If you want to disbelieve, Satan will make it very easy. If you want the TRUTH, seek and ye shall find." Christians always say this, but I've been seeking god's truth for decades and haven't found anything.
@@kadencoates8774 seek harder. If you don't find him, you haven't looked hard enough. ObViOuSlY. /s
Doesn't Satan being able to manipulate our minds kinda take away from our free will/decision to believe
"The bible got this right"
"But it also got this wrong"
"Well it's not a science book"
"it just described a process!" Well, it describes the process incorrectly.
@@The_OrphanizerWhat would you say to the argument that it's supposed to be Metaphorical?
@@m-ox2tx i would ask: "was it always assumed to be metaphorical, or did that interpretation conveniently rise to prominence after the development of the scientific revolution?"
@@The_Orphanizer Not necessarily, or else that would position most interpretations of the Bible as literal before a certain point which would be taking the argument as it's most undesirable angle.
Certain stories are obviously meant to be metaphorical in nature, so the idea then becomes how much of the Bible can be looked at as metaphorical as a valid interpretation.
Which is why the Bible can neither condone or condemn anything, not only because of its heavily contradictory nature but because of how one Christian may look at it when compared to another Christian.
When I use a metaphor crutch, I prefer a splintered reed.
Apologists took gold 🥇 in Mental Gymnastics, Jumping to Conclusions & Moving the Goal Posts.
Earth is existence.
😮
Repent atheist.
@@John1samar
😂
This debate was a public execution
Not really. He said the scientific method
reveals his belief. The only issue is that the scientific method requires observation and must be repeatable and since no one has observed it this is not scientific.😮
@@Xulios16No, the scientific method requires evidence, not direct observation. Besides, this is not the point of the comment. The comment intended to say, that the person thought that Alex was the clear winner in the debate !!!in their opinion!!!. If you check the comments underneath the original debate you will find a lot of comments which use very strong language to express how much Alex won this debate. They write about "massacre", "genocide", "murder", "slaughter", "destroy". Note that those are attempts to make clear that Alex not just won in their opinion, but won in such a convincing way, that just stating "Alex won" sounds like an understatement.
It's totally fine if you don't share that opinion.
@@Xulios16 I once heard Brian Cox say something on a JRE episode in the lines of 'If you can't measure something, it does not exist'
The scientific method doesn't always provide observable evidence but as long as you can measure it, you can prove it
@@eddymuigai3909 Yeah I think that's a logically false statement. One cannot measure love or measure consciousness etc etc. But it is as real as the air you breathe.
@@Xulios16 I think that the Earth is "real" in a different way than love or by extension consciousness is "real" though. Yeah, consciousness is real, but is it a real tangible thing, or simply chemical reactions in the brain that we can measure. Of course it's more than the sum of its parts, which makes it the greatest mystery to modern biology, but it's certainly intangible, though real. In the same way God is intangible, making it impossible to prove or disprove, however there is a little less than an infinite amount more evidence for consciousness "existing" than god. Really difficult to discuss such things over text, but you've brought up a super interesting point about the very concept of existence (tangible and intangible) itself.
“Well in context we don’t know what day means”
*”yeah but day 4 definitely comes after day 1”*
😂😂
Well, if it’s that ambiguous, then it’s not worth reading.
How people think the Bible is a book to be followed when everything can be so skewed by personal interpretation is bonkers.
Oh ya a God wrote this book 🤪 clearly ancient Middle Easter tribal males wrote the book.
Hey there, God loves you❤️, please read everything thank you.😊🙏
Discover True Hope and Unconditional Love
Hey there! Did you know that God loves you more than you can imagine? He created you and desires a close relationship with you. The Bible tells us in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." 1 John 4:9-10 says, "This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins." ❤️📖
Our Problem:
We all make mistakes, which the Bible calls sin. Sin separates us from God and creates chaos in our lives. Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This sin separates us from God and leads to spiritual death. Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
God's Solution:
Here’s the incredible part: God loves us so much that He sent Jesus, His Son, to solve our sin problem. Romans 5:8 tells us, 'But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.' Jesus lived a perfect life and willingly died on the cross for our sins. Then He rose from the dead, demonstrating His power over sin and death.🙏✝️
What We Need to Do:
God offers us a fresh start and eternal life through Jesus. To receive this gift, we must repent-turn away from our sins, believe in Jesus, and choose to follow Him. Acts 3:19 says, 'Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.' (Romans 10:9 assures us, 'If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.🕊️🙌
Reasons to believe:
1. Countless individuals, including me, have encountered God in deeply personal ways-through answered prayers, supernatural phenomena, miraculous healings, and transformative encounters that defy logical or scientific explanation affirming the existence of a higher power, which we believe to be God. Furthermore, witnessing demonic activity and the reality of spiritual warfare underscores the existence of a supernatural realm. These experiences not only highlight the battle between good and evil but also demonstrate the necessity of seeking God's protection and love. These experiences often bring a profound sense of awareness, peace, purpose, and assurance of God’s presence and love in their lives.🌟✨
"So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." Isaiah 41:10
2. Life Transformation: People from diverse backgrounds and circumstances have experienced radical life changes through faith in Jesus Christ. They’ve overcome deep-seated addictions, healed from emotional wounds, and found renewed hope and direction. Their stories of transformation stand as powerful testimony to the life-changing power of the gospel.🌿🌈
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Corinthians 5:17
3. Historical Evidence: The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ are not only central to Christian faith but are also supported by substantial historical evidence. Numerous non-Christian historical sources and early Christian writings corroborate key events, affirming the credibility of Jesus’ existence, crucifixion, and the empty tomb.📜🌍
4. Fulfillment of Prophecies: Jesus fulfilled numerous prophecies from the Old Testament Scriptures that were written centuries before His birth. These prophecies include specific details about His birthplace, lineage, suffering, death, and resurrection. The fulfillment of these prophecies provides compelling evidence of Jesus’ divine identity as the promised Messiah.🌟✝️
5. Logical Consistency: Faith in God through Jesus Christ offers a coherent worldview that addresses humanity’s deepest existential questions. It provides a framework for understanding the meaning of life, the reality of suffering, and the possibility of forgiveness and redemption. This faith does not require ignoring facts but rather integrates historical, philosophical, and experiential evidence into a compelling narrative of truth and hope.🧠💡
6. Transformed Communities: Throughout history and even today, communities of believers in Jesus Christ have demonstrated remarkable unity, sacrificial love, and positive societal impact. From charitable works and social justice initiatives to advancements in education and healthcare, the gospel has inspired individuals and communities to live out their faith in tangible ways that benefit society as a whole.🌍❤️
7. Personal Relationship with God: Beyond mere intellectual belief, faith in Jesus Christ opens the door to a deep, personal connection with God. Through prayer, worship, and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, believers engage in ongoing communion with God. This relationship brings profound spiritual fulfillment, guidance, and an increasing awareness of His presence in their lives. It's not just about knowing about God but experiencing His love and guidance firsthand, shaping a meaningful and transformative journey of faith.🫂❤️🔥
Simple Prayer of Response:
Heavenly Father,
Thank You for loving me unconditionally and for sending Your Son, Jesus, to die for my sins. I confess that I’ve made mistakes, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again to give me new life. I invite Him into my heart as my Savior and Lord. Please help me to follow You faithfully and to live according to Your will each day.
In Jesus’ name, Amen. 🙏✝️
If you prayed this prayer sincerely, congratulations! You’ve begun a wonderful journey with God. Here are some steps you can take to grow in your faith:
1. Find a Church: Look for a local church, where you can learn more about God, worship with others, and build supportive relationships. I recommend the Catholic Church because Im a Catholic Christian.⛪🤝
2. Read the Bible: Start reading the Bible regularly to discover more about God’s love, His promises, and how He wants you to live.📖🕊️
3. Pray: Spend time in prayer every day, talking to God and listening for His guidance and comfort.🙌🌿
4. Connect with Others: Surround yourself with fellow believers who can encourage and support you in your spiritual journey.🌟🤗
5. Live Out Your Faith: Seek opportunities to serve others, show kindness, and share God’s love with those around you.🌍❤️
My Note:
• I recommend you to pray The Divine Mercy Chaplet daily at 3pm.
• I recommend you to pray the Holy Rosary (1-2x daily) or praying in tongues daily.
• I recommend you to pray The Angelus prayer, The Lord's prayer, Hail Mary prayer, St. Michael prayer, Angel of God prayer, Glory be prayer daily. I recommend you to pray these prayers (3x daily): (Morning) 6am, (Noon) 12pm, and (Evening) 6pm.
Recommended Christian YT channels:
1. The Catholic Crusade
2. Last Days
3. Sid Roth It's Supernatural
4. Sensus Fidelium
5. David diga Hernandez
6. Vlad Savchuk
7. Isaiah Saldivar
8. Brother Hyeok
9. Richard Lorenzo Jr.
10. DLM Christian Lifestyle
11. Bible Project
12. Ascension presents
There are many more on YT if you research. Matthew 7:7, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
Remember, God has a plan and purpose for your life, and He promises to be with you every step of the way. Jeremiah 29:11 says, "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."🌟🕊️
God bless you, and remember-Jesus loves you, I love you, and together, we can experience the fullness of God’s amazing love. 😊🙏❤️
#JesusChrist #Christianity #GodsLove #FaithJourney #EternalLife #Prayer #SpiritualJourney #ShareTheGospel
"Yeah but it means epoch or eras"
"Ok, that's much worse"
😂😂
Dinesh walked right into up to a tar pit and Alex pushed him in with a breath.
1 to 7 is a priority order of creations to receive MEN, not a sequence. First, you build the house and last you put people inside
@@waxwaine cool apologetics
Man got cooked in this debate. Completely embarrassed himself
Dinesh feels no shame, he's a sociopathic huckster
He obviously learned nothing from being slapped by the Hitch either when he was alive.
If one's interpretation of the book of truth counters that one's interpretation of the book of nature, then one's interpretation(s) of one or both must be wrong. Hypothesis: the Bible is the Book of Truth; and nature is truthful.
Hey there, God loves you❤️, please read everything thank you.😊🙏
Discover True Hope and Unconditional Love
Hey there! Did you know that God loves you more than you can imagine? He created you and desires a close relationship with you. The Bible tells us in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." 1 John 4:9-10 says, "This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins." ❤️📖
Our Problem:
We all make mistakes, which the Bible calls sin. Sin separates us from God and creates chaos in our lives. Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This sin separates us from God and leads to spiritual death. Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
God's Solution:
Here’s the incredible part: God loves us so much that He sent Jesus, His Son, to solve our sin problem. Romans 5:8 tells us, 'But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.' Jesus lived a perfect life and willingly died on the cross for our sins. Then He rose from the dead, demonstrating His power over sin and death.🙏✝️
What We Need to Do:
God offers us a fresh start and eternal life through Jesus. To receive this gift, we must repent-turn away from our sins, believe in Jesus, and choose to follow Him. Acts 3:19 says, 'Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.' (Romans 10:9 assures us, 'If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.🕊️🙌
Reasons to believe:
1. Countless individuals, including me, have encountered God in deeply personal ways-through answered prayers, supernatural phenomena, miraculous healings, and transformative encounters that defy logical or scientific explanation affirming the existence of a higher power, which we believe to be God. Furthermore, witnessing demonic activity and the reality of spiritual warfare underscores the existence of a supernatural realm. These experiences not only highlight the battle between good and evil but also demonstrate the necessity of seeking God's protection and love. These experiences often bring a profound sense of awareness, peace, purpose, and assurance of God’s presence and love in their lives.🌟✨
"So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." Isaiah 41:10
2. Life Transformation: People from diverse backgrounds and circumstances have experienced radical life changes through faith in Jesus Christ. They’ve overcome deep-seated addictions, healed from emotional wounds, and found renewed hope and direction. Their stories of transformation stand as powerful testimony to the life-changing power of the gospel.🌿🌈
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Corinthians 5:17
3. Historical Evidence: The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ are not only central to Christian faith but are also supported by substantial historical evidence. Numerous non-Christian historical sources and early Christian writings corroborate key events, affirming the credibility of Jesus’ existence, crucifixion, and the empty tomb.📜🌍
4. Fulfillment of Prophecies: Jesus fulfilled numerous prophecies from the Old Testament Scriptures that were written centuries before His birth. These prophecies include specific details about His birthplace, lineage, suffering, death, and resurrection. The fulfillment of these prophecies provides compelling evidence of Jesus’ divine identity as the promised Messiah.🌟✝️
5. Logical Consistency: Faith in God through Jesus Christ offers a coherent worldview that addresses humanity’s deepest existential questions. It provides a framework for understanding the meaning of life, the reality of suffering, and the possibility of forgiveness and redemption. This faith does not require ignoring facts but rather integrates historical, philosophical, and experiential evidence into a compelling narrative of truth and hope.🧠💡
6. Transformed Communities: Throughout history and even today, communities of believers in Jesus Christ have demonstrated remarkable unity, sacrificial love, and positive societal impact. From charitable works and social justice initiatives to advancements in education and healthcare, the gospel has inspired individuals and communities to live out their faith in tangible ways that benefit society as a whole.🌍❤️
7. Personal Relationship with God: Beyond mere intellectual belief, faith in Jesus Christ opens the door to a deep, personal connection with God. Through prayer, worship, and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, believers engage in ongoing communion with God. This relationship brings profound spiritual fulfillment, guidance, and an increasing awareness of His presence in their lives. It's not just about knowing about God but experiencing His love and guidance firsthand, shaping a meaningful and transformative journey of faith.🫂❤️🔥
Simple Prayer of Response:
Heavenly Father,
Thank You for loving me unconditionally and for sending Your Son, Jesus, to die for my sins. I confess that I’ve made mistakes, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again to give me new life. I invite Him into my heart as my Savior and Lord. Please help me to follow You faithfully and to live according to Your will each day.
In Jesus’ name, Amen. 🙏✝️
If you prayed this prayer sincerely, congratulations! You’ve begun a wonderful journey with God. Here are some steps you can take to grow in your faith:
1. Find a Church: Look for a local church, where you can learn more about God, worship with others, and build supportive relationships. I recommend the Catholic Church because Im a Catholic Christian.⛪🤝
2. Read the Bible: Start reading the Bible regularly to discover more about God’s love, His promises, and how He wants you to live.📖🕊️
3. Pray: Spend time in prayer every day, talking to God and listening for His guidance and comfort.🙌🌿
4. Connect with Others: Surround yourself with fellow believers who can encourage and support you in your spiritual journey.🌟🤗
5. Live Out Your Faith: Seek opportunities to serve others, show kindness, and share God’s love with those around you.🌍❤️
My Note:
• I recommend you to pray The Divine Mercy Chaplet daily at 3pm.
• I recommend you to pray the Holy Rosary (1-2x daily) or praying in tongues daily.
• I recommend you to pray The Angelus prayer, The Lord's prayer, Hail Mary prayer, St. Michael prayer, Angel of God prayer, Glory be prayer daily. I recommend you to pray these prayers (3x daily): (Morning) 6am, (Noon) 12pm, and (Evening) 6pm.
Recommended Christian YT channels:
1. The Catholic Crusade
2. Last Days
3. Sid Roth It's Supernatural
4. Sensus Fidelium
5. David diga Hernandez
6. Vlad Savchuk
7. Isaiah Saldivar
8. Brother Hyeok
9. Richard Lorenzo Jr.
10. DLM Christian Lifestyle
11. Bible Project
12. Ascension presents
There are many more on YT if you research. Matthew 7:7, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
Remember, God has a plan and purpose for your life, and He promises to be with you every step of the way. Jeremiah 29:11 says, "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."🌟🕊️
God bless you, and remember-Jesus loves you, I love you, and together, we can experience the fullness of God’s amazing love. 😊🙏❤️
#JesusChrist #Christianity #GodsLove #FaithJourney #EternalLife #Prayer #SpiritualJourney #ShareTheGospel
@matthewrhee8242 that's making fun of someone who believes that right? Like that isn't actually your take its satire?
*ANSWER is SIMPLE:*
*When you actually read the Genesis chapter 1 we realize all the creative days are being described from the point of view as if a human was standing on the Earth throughout the creation periods. That's it. Now go read it, smack yourself in your forehead, and mumble "duh".*
Correct, the whole book is written from a human perspective and in those days, the earth was the centre of the universe.
@@sarvolfe6435 *I think you're referring to church doctrine not the Bible. No translation of the Bible has ever said the Earth is at the center of the universe.*
*But then again that is an ongoing problem throughout history. Religious organizations and institutions twisting the word of God to suit their own goals in manipulating the dumb masses. Anti-biblical teachings such as hellfire, immortality of the soul, paid clergy, and perhaps one of the greatest lies -- Jesus is Almighty God? No he's not. Stupid. All of it.*
What, a human standing on earth before humans were created? Ok
@@LagSpikeX *Yes, when we read the Bible we hear repeatedly how God inspired some humans to write down his thoughts and instructions. One of the many features of the Bible is how Jehovah honors us by providing a human perspective on a vast array of subjects. Sometimes he will provide visions to a human that allows them to both see and experience things that no human would be able to otherwise. As an example he has projected their consciousness into the future through accurate prophecy and other times allowed a person to view events of the distant past. Genesis definitely qualifies as a distant past event and thus, we receive a beautiful perspective of creation as if standing on the planet throughout the billions of years of formation.*
"How did the authors of Genesis know that?!" Good grief, imagining "a beginning" is the most intuitive thing in the world.
and yet an unfounded and unwarranted conclusion.
@@sandroelbers "you cant see past the end of your nose"
interpret that :)
you as they say are a "literal fool"
Every story needs a beginning.
Going with a strong opener is a great literary technique.
@@sandroelbers agreed. For example if there was ever absolutely nothing how would that condition ever change?
I thought that god spoke to the writers. That would answer that.
D'Souza's level of argument is pretty embarrassing
It’s right on par with the hack that he is.
It's not his fault if he's defending the bible
He's not really even arguing though. He just brushes it aside or moves the goal post whenever he can't handle his way of thinking or interpreting is challenged.
Yeah, but I think it’s equally embarrassing to assert that the universe had a beginning. Sure, we don’t have evidence of what preceded this “beginning,” and science is loathe to proclaim things without evidence, but something was definitely always and infinitely there.
I see the universe more as a container of sorts that holds properties of various types in perpetual states of flux. When one area of the universe is expanding another is contracting. Where a seeming void exists in one area of the universe another area is teeming with activity.
Yes. He should just tell the other guy he is an idiot like all our science that is buffoonarism to say the least
The awkward silence leading to stuttering was the funniest part
I first saw Dinesh get owned by Hitchens and now I get to see the next generation do it too, well done 😂
When you hold on to a false premise every generation will smack you down.
I haven’t seen that debate yet, but funnily enough if you watch the intro to this discussion two moderators discuss the Hitchens v Denish debate and they both agree that Denish got the better of Hitchens. Again, I haven’t seen it and can’t draw an opinion yet, but that’s what the commenters from Pangburn (the hosts of this discussion) said.
@@lukepoplawski3230he gave Hitchens a hard time . Alex had him on the run for most of this .
@@PramodKumar-gy8lb you there: prove that the universe happened by accident
That's a matter opinion.
"Surely Day 4 comes after Day 1 though"
well... umm... well... it depends... i mean .. umm
LMFAO , Bloody Classic
“How did primitive shepherds know that the universe had a beginning?”
They didn’t. They guessed.
50/50 shot, also it's hard to imagine something not having a beginning. That's why God's in almost all religions have a beginning, few Religions imagine a God that exists without a beginning.
@@MrThatguy333 very true. Earlier iterations if the Abrahamic god have a beginning before it’s current timeless spaceless flavour
The universe to them was 5 planets the earth, moon and the sun. The stars were holes in the sky with the light of heaven shining through them.
and even more funny, we might be wrong about it all along xD
And Hebrew scholars generally consider versions of the bible with “In the beginning God created…” to be a bad translation. The first phase should be more like “When God began to create…” and have him working from pre-existing materials.
Like watching a sand castle slowly collapse.
Not slowly though
But this was a bunch of naipes without any kind of shape falling apart
Because Genesis is not a History book but one of myths as most of the Bible, understanding myth as a narrative to explain something profund not easily explained otherwise.
Some events described are historic but many are not
If you defend the Bible validation as an History book, you will always loose
@@gabrielalbertocastillomarq6120
Unfortunately, some argue for its fitting current science through "interpretation" (AKA hermeneutics).
The book genesis clearly mention: "Let there be light!" as the first creation
Interestingly enough it mentions earth twice. Heaven and earth in the beginning , then light and later on they again mention the division between water and dry land. John Lennox has a pretty good presentation about the seven days of creation that breaks it down very nicely.
Don’t know if it’s a bit of a reach but the first sentence of creation sounds a bit vague - it’s not like they go into detail - they just say earth and the heavens. And I mean that may very well just mean space and matter -
Actually, wherever is a good reader would read the Bible and know that the "light" (sun) was created on the first day not on the fourth day.
Science can only discover what God has done. The gentleman is only trying to twist the scriptures to favor his argument. He's either a fraud or he's ignorant.
Light doesn't mean sun, there are many suns in space
Alex, I'm an old woman and have to say that I have learned a great deal from you. I so admire your ability to keep your cool and present your arguments with stunning reason and intellect. Bravo!
Come on you can’t be that old ))) I like Alex too. As a matter of fact I was using his videos to learn English way back in a days when he was a kid and younger version of him was not as witty as he is today but surely super intelligent and well versed and listening to him helped to make learning routine more enjoyable.
Alex seems to have a lot of female fans. I will check his earlier videos.
I certainly would like to improve my English.
@@AtriadGamasekav I've got fillings in my teeth way older than Alex. Let's just say I was born the year, "Mr. Sandman" and "Shake Rattle and Roll" were top hits in the US.
He relies on skepticism, semantics, twisted logic, fallacies, and verbal shell games.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue oh yeah? Logic can’t be twisted it either is or it’s not. So could you please demonstrate where his statements lacked logic?
"Alright, so..." just might be the funniest line ever said, at least within this specific context.
zuess created the sun
@@againstdrivingdrunk614*Zeus
@@JDdr86 the believers have been tried and shaken, by a mighty force.
“You can’t just move the goalposts; especially if you’re still gonna miss” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yeah when conversations devolve from truth seeking to rhetorical scoring.
@@georgehatzimanolakis1904 might want to carefully re-read what he said, big dawg
@@georgehatzimanolakis1904 con-ver-say-shuns, big homie
@@iammichaeldavis oh, my bad
He didn't even make a point though science is not 100% true it's theory
Dinesh is still at it, over thinking the simple things to make it sound more complicated than it really is. The giggle to wiggle out of the situation that you completely trapped yourself in and then further compound the situation. Astoundingly mind boggling. 😂
I loved how you mopped the floor with him and didn’t give him any room for bullshit.
@@amt4653 thanks
Continue on living your spiritually shallow shithole of a life and see where that gets your you purposeless sack of cells and shit.
by misunderstanding the point, yes.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue the only person misunderstanding the point here, is you
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrueWhen you have to misunderstand truth to even get the point, you're not making a point or telling the truth. But you are right about the truth hurting, bc you've lashed out at like 4 truthful comments on here they hurt you so bad. You know, you can just jump over to the truth here with us and stop hurting, right?
Alex has a very sharp mind. Dinesh probably thought he was debating some college student.
Dinesh clearly didn't prep at all for this.
Not really. Even a 5 year old can see through his bullshit
That changed after Alex's opening speech. You can tell when Dinesh stood up and started his opening. You could hear in his voice he started crapping himself realising what he got himself into.
@@subhuman3408care to explain how Alex is bullshiting? or are you just going to assert "bullshit" and hope nobody asks for an example of how? Clearly the video shows who is full of bs. The Bible was worng and the dishonest muppet can't even admit it. Isn't dishonesty suppose to be sinful.
Dinesh was unprepared and Alex was uneducated.
I’ve watched this like 20 times over several days. I’m absolutely in awe that you setup each of these moments so perfectly and he fell for it every time. Like just asking “what day was it that god created the sun? Day four or something like that?” And it sets up the next moment perfectly.
Bravo, Alex. This is one of the more perfect moments anyone has ever had on a debate stage.
Alex is being dishonest here the verses (gen 1:14-18) isn't refering to the moon and sun or they wouldve been named but time which creates periods utilising the light (photons) that was created on the first day simarly to what astrophysicts believe so please instead of taking this clip in 20x look for scholarly opinions that differ and explain in more detail what Alex is actually trying to talk about
Ok then... aztubmatt904.... i cant wait to see you up there debating it next so we can all pause, look up your references and form our own conclusions in our own time like we do when (non coward) christians get up there to debate. 🙏🏽❤️
@@jdetres01 what are you on about its not my reference he used it im just stating how Alex's point has been echoed before and is objectively wrong and provide a counteractive view that IS correct
On day 1 God Created the Heavens and the Earth. Believe it or not the Sun is part of Earth. It's just burning up, it's a matter of flesh not divinity.
Why are you all saying bravo and praising like you're robots? Does Alex pay for these comments?
@@aztubmatt904 you're debating in the comments, instead of preping for your upcoming debate. you had a month to prep, are you ready? i cant wait to watch and form my own opinions after looking into the things you say! :)
I love you all and pray for the day you find the truth.
We already did. There are no gods. Your prayers have been answered.
Omg that pause and cut to both of your faces was like a skit from the Office😂
Dinesh is so insufferable, but apologists usually are
Dinesh is no apologist. He is not an authority on theology.
@@DRWH044Exactly.
@@DRWH044 Apologists aren't either usually.
@@solacedagony1234 I don't know what apologists you are familiar with, many are not, but many others are.
@@DRWH044 Apologists are there to keep their flock. You're talking about scholars.
Dinesh looked like he got kicked by 2000 mules.
😂😆
This would be funnier if it were true.
and he wanted to fuck all 2000 of them
@@markwildt5728cope more😂
A jackass getting kicked by 2000 jackasses
“you can’t now move the goalposts, especially if you’re still going to miss” 🔥
Theist: "My holy book is in alignment with modern science! It's a miracle!"
Atheist: "Hold on, here is a scientific contradiction in it"
Theist: "Well, it's not a science book!"
What in the name of critical thinki- 🤦🏼♂️
Most Christians around the western world dont take the old testament literally. That is something americans share with less developed countries.
If you want an interesting debate dont debate fundamentalists be they religious or atheist. Its an easy way to feel smarter but its boring…
Jesus was a stoic btw
Nice story. Did you make it up yourself?
you know that expert all around the world don't know /agree on how the universe started right !? im just impress that these religious people even knew the concept of outer space and creation with so little technologies,they not more wrong ...
Its ironic that strawmen do not constitute prober critical thinking.
@@funnygaming2672 yeah the origin of the universe is not known and has only been theorized...the formation of the solar system with the earth on the other hand has been deduced by observation and proven
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day."
This one video made me write an entire study disproving Alex. But he is still a very smart man, that’s why I subbed.
Love this clip.
Dinesh acts like such a know it all and to see him at a loss for words is priceless
When was he at a loss for words exactly?
Typical kind of response to someone who doesn't believe.
Yeah, cuz all those edits & jump cuts make it really clear what responses were made to which statements. I don’t go to Dinesh for my theology, but the interpretation of Genesis is misleading if you’re looking at it as literal. Let there be light wasn’t the creation of the sun, it was the clearing of the sky/clouds/darkness.
@@markwildt5728when he contradicted what he just said himself. “How did the Bible know?” And knowing are observations, and observations is science, and the Bible is it a scientific book. It all gets confusing and it’s because he rushed out his words
"..... alright... so, so so ... so we're... yes ahem". Technically, he said some words right?
Never thought I’d hear an orator come close to Hitch, the late Hitch
Also, dinesh doesnt realize that "in the beginning" is only in the greek. Εν αρχη. The Hebrew is better understood as "when god created..."
How does that make sense for John 1:1?
@@ZachFish- The writer of John famously used the Septuagint translation for his prologue.
@@ZachFish- Different authors with different voices. It's like comparing Deuteronomy 24 with Mark 10, they're obviously not from the same God.
From listening to a few different Hebrew translators, apparently in Genesis the plural "Gods" or variations like "powerful ones" are used. It was the later translations into other languages that changed it from Gods to God. I don't read Hebrew so I've no idea how accurate that is, but there are many translators who seem to agree that the plural is used a lot in Genesis in particular
@@mauddib1761 I've heard the same occasionally online, but it incorrect. "Elohim" is used in the Priestly texts, but it is grammatically singular and functions as a concretized abstract plural (we see this used of other singular deities like Dagon as well). The overwhelming academic consensus is that "Elohim" is a singular figure in the narrative.
Dont forget the plants were created on day 3 before the sun that the plants need for photosynthesis
If God used a big bang explosion to create everything, then there would probably be some light and heat surrounding the planet before the sun got into it's position.
this is a lie he said let there be light first before plants, do your research
@@JakeLentz it also states that the sun and moon were created on day 4. Where was the light coming from if not from the sun?
@@JakeLentz sun doesn't exist until the 4th day oops lol
Why do people assume that our understanding of science and we can argue with God that his ways of working doesn't make sense, ye it does not make sense for us... . Wise orthodox priests explained to me that the light on 1st day came from withing God and it was enough for all the universe, so that light could sustain plants untill God probably said that his light should not be our source of light and created big engines(Stars) with sustenable energy for millenias.
There's (mostly) 2 possibilities: The universe had a beginning or it didn't. They had a 50% chance of guessing correctly.
It doesn't necessarily work like that. Consider this: "either some kind of god exists or he/she/it doesn't. You have a 50% chance of guessing correctly." Conclusion: We can't calculate probabilities for events that we don't fully understand.
@@DJ-ct6soThats a false equivalency. We know the universe objectively exists and therefore it either had a begining or it did not. God is not provable and is not supported by any data or science so it is not 50/50 whether he created the universe any more than saying that its 50/50 as to whether a magical otter made the universe.
@@ajax201000Orrrr hear me out. The universe itself is god. It's all powerful, and technically all knowing as everything is apart of the singular universe. It's omnipresent meaning everywhere in all creation at the same time. It created life, and takes life. It can't be destroyed (energy can't be created nor destroyed)
@@Vergil512 Then that wouldnt be the God of the Christian faith but a sentient universe and those 2 things are not the same.
@@Vergil512ah yes, the whole "I'm gonna redefine the whole concept of God so that it fits with what we know about science". Well, maybe God is actually the half-empty box of Cheerios that sits in my cupboard. Who knows!!
God can make it before after or whenever he wanted to make it. The fact of the matter is no human being would or could ever know that. That’s why we have God for.
Well said brother. Do you believe in Jesus?
@@starcrasher2477 I most certainly do. And I’m not a brother lol born a female birthed 2 kids.
“You cant move the goal post, especially when you’re going to miss” was the coldest line in history.
Shows off his snark and lack of seriousness beautifully
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue Man, that copium must be great.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue it's hard to take people like you seriously, to be fair
@ithurtsbecauseitstrue why should anybody take a bloviating fraud like D'Souza seriously?
@@MasterPoppersAlex completely dodged the question and deflected, then had the audacity to accuse Dinesh of moving the goal post... 🤦🏻♂️ What was it you were saying about copium?
The look on Alex's face of "dude are you fn serious right now?"
Origin matters not. End matters not. Everything in between is of concern.
Friend and I came up with the notion that the only thing that matters in life is the dash in between the dates on your headstone.
It represents everything you did in that time. Everything else you didn’t get a choice.
The face After the 'got that bit wrong' 😂
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth.
The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
@@maambomumba6123 so the light arrived before the Sun was visible? Where did the light Come from then?
Also, that does not really conforme with this bit ''In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep''
So it does seem the earth was created before light existed.
Since ''let there be light'' Comes after.
Are we Reading the same Book?
@@myssadonno2759 yes. It’s possible to see the light from a light source but not see the source itself.
Genesis 1:2 “says darkness was upon the surface of the watery deep”. Evidently at this point, while the Sun had already been created, it’s light had not yet diffused through Earths atmosphere - hence the darkness. In the very next verse Genesis 1:3 says “let there be light”. It’s at this point in this creation epoch that light diffuses through the atmosphere of the Earth. But the Sun itself as the source of this light is not yet discernible. Only on the fourth creation day does the Sun itself become visible as the sky was evidently clear enough to see the Sun. That’s why Genesis 1:17 refers to “Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth”…describing how the Sun could now be seen by an observer on the Earths surface.
@@maambomumba6123 not for days or epoques. How long does it take for the suns light to get here?
Also, do you believe they, the Sun and the earth, were created at the same Time? Or was one created before the other? You believe the earth is round right? So the source of the light would have been visible from half of the planet if there was already light when the earth was created...
You also talked about it being the description of an observer, like a physical one?
Genuinely the mental gymnastics some people attempt to pull off, when trying to defend absurdities, never ceases to astound me.
Old testament is 💯 percent accurate, and if someone thinks he is smarter than God.. your grave going to tell you your not.. but after grave is no repentance.....
Ah the classic "You'll see when you're dead!" argument theists pull out when you have no other arguments.
I just love this young man we need more like him 🙏
So what are the stupid prayer hands for?
@@lotanerve its the universal call sign for atheist
@@lotanerve They are stupid Thank you Hands
the more snark and semantical twists he uses, the more unserious and malicious i find him to be.
he should ONCE attempt a steelman
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue i think he did(soft steelman/remark) in the beginning of the debate. he even stood up, and his argument bordered on racism. something along the lines that allot of atheist are from Great-Britain and yes it was a stupendous moment. full debate.
ua-cam.com/video/UMKkX8qRHsw/v-deo.html
“I would suspect yes”
Learned a lot from JP
(Just poking fun Alex)
Once you pull the thread, it all unravels.
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth.
The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
The bible doesn't say the earth was created before the sun.
And despite that, different cultures have different ways of listing things.
For example in English, we would say "my eyes are blue" but in French they change the order to "blue are my eyes".
Ancient cultures may have had different priorities for listing things.
@@andrewdouglas1963 LOL. Keep digging.
@@SuperNictastic
???
Maybe this is too educationally advanced for you.
@@maambomumba6123 i’m trying to wrap my head around this too, so I’m an honest observer, but I would challenge you by saying, the genesis account is supposed to be the telling of things given by God. Do you believe that? If you believe that, I don’t think you can take the liberties you took in your answer above.
Kimble needs to call the Church of Scientology more!!
A Tom Cruise soundboard would be great😂
I love how Alex included a diagram that beautifully demonstrates how the 6 days of creation were not literal, and I dont think he knows it. Pause the video and notice how the top half mirrors the bottom half. It's a parallelism, which is a form of Hebrew poetry. It uses a song-like rhythm to reinforce the message being made. The second part completes the ideas introduced in the first part. The order of the creation events had to be molded to fit the style of poem, not the other way around.
The problem when the debater of the Bible doesn’t truly believe the Bible is perfect. Shame
when yall are completely delusional, it does not look any better to the rest of us than this.
@@gardenandcalico watch how you talk about religion shit face. If let's say we are delusional you are as well believing also theory science is not 100% true like your dumbass thinks
It's a shame that people are so sure of knowing about something they're not even sure of having really thought about and fact-checked.
If the Bible were perfect, it wouldn't have to contradict itself.
How so?
@@emp5352
Alex has the best critiques, he eviscerates dumb arguments and respects strong ones
You should remove your lips from Alex's ass and come up for air... Alex is simply your typical dime a dozen UA-cam atheist edgelord. Also, he dodged the question and deflected. He couldn't refute one argument, so he deflected to one he thought he could. Unfortunately Dinesh got rattled and handled it poorly, because if Dinesh would have stayed sharp, not fall for Alex's tactics, and pressed him on the original question, Alex would have come away looking rather foolish.
My take on it is that whoever wrote genesis may have had a vision or something similar about the formation of the Earth, but it may have been difficult to interpret or comprehend for them given the knowledge they had. And so they wrote it out in what seemed to be the most plausible and logical way to them at the time. And so it's difficult to take it as a literal depiction of events.
Those people place themselves in that kind of intellectually embarrassing position willingly.
Any creation story has a beginning.
Because, whether it is historical or not, it's a story. That's why so many predict an end to said story, because stories naturally end.
"You can't now move the goalposts, especially if you're still going to miss" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
As a Christian, that was a pretty good line. I'm not sure what's up with Dinesh here. I thought he was supposed to be a believer? It's like he's throwing the debate on purpose.
You should be charged with three or four counts of aggravated assault with a deadly one-liner.
one-liners are his brand more than actual reason
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue one-liners can be reasonable or unreasonable, there is no correlation. in this case, his one-liners were completely reasonable, and you have to rebut them with reason, not by calling them one-liners
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth.
The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
Technically that objection is debatable. The sun may have actually come first as per “let there be light”. The moon, however, did come later, which would technically mark the creation of the two great lights.
Dude thought he asked a gotcha question instead got hit with a shoe on his face. 😂
His OWN shoe, in fact!
When the Bible mentions light, it doesn't necessarily mean our sun.
Exactly!!!!
What does it mean?
@@JB-ec1bo "The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp" (Revelation 21) ..this scripture is about the new earth in the future. It parallels Genesis. God was the light & he created the sun and moon later to mark signs & times. This transcends science..it's supernatural.
From genesis: And God made the two great lights-the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night-and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness.
Now are you really going to try to rationalise that this doesn't mean the sun and the moon? :)
@@korpscomacho That scripture was the 4th day. There was a source of light already in Genesis 1:3. No one in this section said verse 16 wasn't about the sun and the moon.
You easily won the argument because the man contradicts himself, he believes evolution and the Bible to be true at the same time
Evolution is true, so is God. Why is that a problem? He created and creation evolves over time. Man's intelligence has evolved in the last 200 years. Sports accomplishments get better and better so we can see evolution in even that sense. Now there isn't a creator because of that? Ya'll are dupid
The bible and evolution don't contradict each other though, evolution is a process not how life was created
@@jayreyndogz1791 according to evolution, life came from a chemical soup whereas the Bible claims God created a person (not primitive ape), the genesis account and pseudo-science evolution never agree, and anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly confused
@@theHappyDesigner evolution means process has nothink todo with creation
@@theHappyDesigner god creating a person is not inherently a evolution process, but instead a creation process. And one could argue God creating humans is still a evolution process theory. It is called "Divine Selection Theory" as opposed to Charles Darwin's "Natural Selection Theory of Evolution".
When I was in highschool every kid was forced to learn evolution, then the next less was Charles Darwin's Natural Selection theory of evolution which our parents had to sign a form saying we were allowed to learn it, as there may be some children whose religion believes in Divine Selection theory.
Natural Selection Theory of Evolution
VS.
Divine Selection Theory of Evolution
Evolution is a proven fact. The process of evolution is not. We only have theories.
This is all a common misconception. Especially the idea that Evolution & Natural Selection theory are the same thing. They are not.
There's no point playing chess with pigeons.
This is the equivalent of Mike Tyson avenging Muhammed Ali (Christopher Hitchens), after his defeat against Larry Holmes (Dinesh).
If one was punching with strawman semantics and twisting words and the other was punching with meaning and purpose.... but only semantics were counted by the reg.
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth.
The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
Dineash is right the Bible isn't a science book
Everytime I remember how I was so enamored and captured by the likes of D'Souza and JP, I am deeply ashamed at younger me
Don't be ashamed, were just glad you saw the bs
JP seems leagues above D'Souza in terms of intelligence. As a Christian I've never heard of D'Souza , but his defense of the Bible is laughable bad here.
I still enjoy listening to Peterson when he's talking about psychology. It's just when he steps into politics or religion I have to take some of what he says with a grain of salt. I still don't disagree with everything he says though, just some things.
You fell for the low-rent skeptical semantics of online atheists, huh?
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth.
The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
imagine that you are asking a question, thinking you are unstablizing your opponent, but the opponent completely crush you!
Alex, have a bit of mercy please 😂
you mean have some common sense. He has no idea when the sun was created yet hes so sure of himself I got second hand embarrassment for him.
or even an ounce of seriousness. that'd be nice.
@@billwalton4571no one’s embarrassed for him. The earth was formed after the sun and we do know.
@@liamthomas2014 you know like you know man came from apes 🤣🤡
@@liamthomas2014 🤡
Thank God we have Alex
😂😂😂😂
Thank who?
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth.
The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
Alex I've been following your ascend since the beginning, you are one of the few or maybe the only one guy in youtube that i actually feel proud to support.
DeSouza was owned during every second of that debate. If it was a boxing match it would have been stopped halfway through the first round
So lets say i am a game designer. First i design the earth, later i design the sun. The earth needs the sun to orbit around. In fact, when i place the objects into the gameworld, i first place the sun and then add the earth and give it a momentum to stay in orbit around the sun. Not only that, the lore of the game is, that the earth was formed out of dust particles orbiting the sun.
Now, i am an amateur and not strong on theology, but what would speak against that analogy?
What point are you even trying to make here?
@parcormasteryesiknowispell4337 Say you can create a apple from nothing. Seems like the apple exists before a apple tree
When we say that this apple was made, scientifically this apple would have come from a seed yeah? Meaning it then came from another apple. This is the "lore" he is talking about.
Heres the fun part now. Say I create a fully grown apple tree first and then a fully grown redwood tree. A fully grown redwood tree is on average maybe a thousand years old whereas a apple tree could be 50 years old. Fascinating how not many people think of this thought. Shows how wonderful all of creation even is
@@spyjoshua Wait so your point is "different trees average different ages so therefore the world is created by God" Thats dumb as hell.
It's like he's doesn't realize he's arguing it's all true so all Alex has to do is point out any of the obvious objective falsehoods or contradictions.
@@amt4653 it's absurd to assert the description is like chronological days but the scripture can not be interpreted as such. Nonetheless for the sake of argument, conceding that here this specific scripture must be interpreted with a meaning that is specifically at odds with what it says, Alex and skeptics have still observed several other blatant falsehoods and contradictions throughout the Bible.
@@amt4653 it's still absurd. Scripture about creation and time being presented as absolutely true yet being written in a way that can be seen as literal or figurative, but was only meant to be read as figurative is bad and silly writing. Even still that means the new standard for the past century that generations of people are taught, the current translations and interpretations of the Bible, are wrong. That's still, perhaps even moreso, a good argument for Christianity being wrong.
That's all Alex does - is childishly twist words with semantic illogical shell games.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue Alex was really straightforward, he usually is. The chronological order asserted by a plain reading of Genesis is objectively wrong. That's not semantical, it's obvious.
@@oldmanwaterfall Attempt to steelman it.
Can you find any way to make it work - for one thing.
Also - his only point was that the authors of Genesis knew the universe had a beginning. Which coincides with science - but it is not that science that was being addressed in the text. The text of Genesis is refutation of pagan religions that thought the universe was eternal - or that it was created by a bunch of god sex.
The pagans thought sea monsters were gods. That the sun and moon were gods. Etc. And Genesis is saying: no, those are all creation.
So it's purpose is not science but in refuting perverse, sexually obsessed human-sacrificing pagans. The Bible saying: no, those are all just part of creation - and humans are made in God's image, so stop sacrificing them.
That purpose aligns with science, in that it was created - and thus not eternal.
Alex ran with that coinciding. And it was ALEX that moved the goalpost of that ONE point, and made it about Genesis being a scientific description.
But lets leave all of Alex's misuse of Genesis and science out of the equation for a second.
IF you had ANY interest in nuance or deeper thought when it came to the days of creation - and wanted to both see their wisdom AND get it to further align with science... if you wanted to do that.... can you figure out a way to get it to work? As others very easily have.
I know Alex wouldn't bother doing that when he can appear smart with low end word games.
But give it a shot.
Can you make it work?
His little mind will be blown when he finds out that we won’t need the sun one day.😂
There are no beginnings without the bookends of endings holding them in place. The parenthesis to living is (dying) may I be so blunt. ❤
Damm Alex. Nicely done.
I felt so much second hand embarrassment from watching Dinesh tie himself into knots. I physically had to pause the debate to take it in😂
That's not what happened.
Can't actually address the point about the order of "days", argues about the meaning of the word days.
No - but you can make this work in other ways.... if you want to.
And were it an atheist point, the nuance and alternate viewpoints would be welcome - and be called deep.
But since you might have to think about it more from a Biblical perspective, people LEAP on the ignorant strawman gotcha horse crap.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue What ever you're trying to say isn't coming through. Can you please clarify what, exactly, you're trying to say?
@@ModernCelt That with some more thought - you can EASILY reconcile whats going on here.
If it were the depths of philosophy - nuance and detail would be welcome.
If it were science and evolution - nuance and detail would be welcome.
But as it is Biblical thinking - shallow, easy cheap shots are considered slam dunks. No deeper thought or nuance necssary.
IT's all pretty dumb.
It's funny. If you say: man didn't come from no ape - atheists flip their lid. WE DIDN'T COME FROM APES... WE CAME FROM A COMMON ANCESTOR.
Even that level of nuance ... which is pretty basic... is DEMANDED in a non religious topic.
And saying "man didn't come from no ape" is kind of the shallow thinking Alex is displaying here.
He is the one who shifted the goal post, firrstly.
And he is going for cheapshots rather than thinking about:
1. answering the question without changing the subject and switching the point
2. making his own days of creation demand find a way to still easily plausibly work.
😵💫@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue
DD has no clue as to what he's talking about. His rectally-derived comments are embarrassing. Most anyone I've ever met in a bar is more intelligent than DD.
Dinash being surprised someone got a 50/50% chance right.
science got it wrong...
all other religions got it wrong.
They also either described an eternal universe, or creation via god-sex.
They also thought the sun was a god. And the moon.
The Bible got a lot of things right in each 50/50 flip.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue the whole idea about falsification that is a base of science is build on being wrong till the end result will can be called the truth.
That is the difference of a coin toss and keep what comes and flip the coin so many times no matter how wrong it is till you got the right thing.
Or on the other side I bet a lot of other religions got things right where another religion is wrong. But that doesn't progress to all possible rights if we keep staying in religion. And this truth seeking and always being critical of the own self might be what made Christianity so special that it is now the only religion that lead to something we have now as science (in the past they also had similar ideas like especially the Greek. But nothing compared to now is also able to teach it in such a objective way, which needs wrongs to learn out of it. All in the past got Fundamental basics,but beyond that we got the guessing again...... And sadly modern science also loses again thanks to dogmas and ideologies that damn curtain things as wrong just because it does a 50/50 and those things where on the other side without discussing it)
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue i dont see how this video could hurt your pride enough to make you respond to so many comments
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue your mental fortitude is out the window and your brain is no where to be found
@@pogy3374 responding must equate to hurt pride? What a douche
It will take a loooong time for the goalpost changer to recover 😂😂😂
That look on a Christian’s face when logic overrides his faith- priceless 😂
Lol. As an agnostic Christian, at least I can laugh about it now. 😅
you mean when he realizes he is going to have to describe meaning to someone who won't accept it. right. That's the problem.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue explain what meaning? He tried to use science to validate his religion and then when science contradicted his religious assertions he says the Bible is not trying to be scientific truth…. You can’t move the goal post especially if you’re still gonna miss
@@ezshottah3732 No he didn't.
He said while addressing spiritual things, it touched on a truth that coincides with the reality of the world we know.
It DOES touch on the world being created.
It is not addressing science.
It is address the world being created by God.
But being created by God COINCIDES with having a beginning, and a start, and not being infinite.
But the Bible was not really addressing that scientific fact.
It was addressing it spiritually.
Pagan religions typically thought one of two things:
1. the earth and universe were eternal
or
2. the earth and universe were made by gods having sex.
The Bible refutes these: God created it.
No, the earth is not created by gods having sex. Nor is the earth a sex-having goddess like Gaia.
Earth is just a creation.
The sun and moon are not gods. They are creation.
The animals are creation.
Etc.
It was addressing these pagan ideas.
But the earth being created by God meant it was created and had a beginning.
That non-scientific description COINCIDES with science. As science has confirmed that phenomenon as a real happening - even though scientists denied it extensively. Until they were forced into changing their entire cosmology based on proofs and data.
He EXPLICITLY says that Genesis is not describing science.
It's not.
It's describing other truths.
And this lead them to knowing the universe had a beginning.... this was beyond any reason for them to think so based on any observation of substances and material. So they knew a truth because it was true. Even if it wasn't a science claim being addressed.
It was ALEX that moved to goal post and claimed it was a scientific claim.
He did that intentionally. He knew he was avoiding answering the question by changing the subject.
Ken Ham is living rent free in Alex's mind or something. That is NOT the only way we address Genesis.
The whole can mean something entirely different - and still coincide with science.
Like "paths of the sea" being written to praise the power of the Lord - and then being used to discover the ocean currents. That doesn't make that prayerful Psalm a science book. But it noting things God made, it touched on a truth - a truth that coincides with an unknown scientific fact too. Beyond any reason. The writer knew the unknowable.... in writing a praise to God.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue idk where you pulled all that nonsense from but here’s the genesis creation account
Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Literally states that “god” created the earth before the sun. Which is factually incorrect. The earth could not have formed without the gravitational force of the sun(light) look up accretion
Again. You can’t move the goal post especially if you’re gonna miss
Alex is the Mike Tyson of arguing. He’s backing you up against the ropes and not letting you out.
so raped a woman and lost his last 6 debates? nah that doesnt work, maybe say he is the Floyd Mayweather of arguing
The obvious answer to why the writers of Genesis 'knew' the universe had a beginning was that they had been born and had probably seen childbirth and guessed based on THAT... We grew out of all the other creation myths, so maybe we'll grow out of this one too!
Cracking debater using logic
Well not really logic because science is not 100% true it's theory
@@bennin9455 Oh dear. Go and google the definition of "scientific theory"
We're trying to pin down someone by universal standards who, by definition, would exist outside of universal standards...
I used to go to the park behind my house with a huge lake to kill time, skip rocks and stuff. I would often think about how old those rocks were. But, here i was, holding them, controlling them and just flinging them.
D'Souza is such a cringey creep.
His books and films are bad fiction.
"Don't move the goalpost espcially if you are still gonna miss"
Damn i love that quote
The sun, moon, and stars already existed as part of “the heavens” created in “the beginning.” (Genesis 1:1) However, their light evidently did not reach the earth’s surface because of a dense atmosphere. (Genesis 1:2) So although diffused light became visible on the first day, the light’s source was not yet recognizable. On the fourth day, the atmosphere apparently cleared up. The Bible says that the sun, moon, and stars now began to “shine upon the earth,” evidently describing how they would have been seen from the perspective of an observer on earth.
this is what people do when they can't admit they are wrong. It's pathetic and childish. The bible is no more correct than any other ancient "holy book". It's superstitions of ancient people trying to understand nature, before most humans could understand magic isn't real. Unfortunately, there are still humans who can't accept that magic isn't real.
No one magically made the universe or anything in it.
@@Mouse_007On the 4th day was when the sun and moon were created, so where did the day and night come from?
@@55Quirll the sun and moon weren't "created".
@@Mouse_007 On day 4 of the Bible they were:
The Fourth Day-Sun, Moon, and Stars
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the sky. These lights will separate the days from the nights. They will be used for signs to show when special meetings[a] begin and to show the days and years. 15 They will be in the sky to shine light on the earth.” And it happened.
16 So God made the two large lights. He made the larger light to rule during the day and the smaller light to rule during the night. He also made the stars.
In reality, they were created a long time apart.
@@55Quirll I don't care what the bible says, that is not how planets assemble in our universe. Our moon was part of the earth 4.5 billion years ago until a collision ripped a chunk of the earth off. Our sun formed 4.6 billion years ago just like all other stars in our universe form, by clouds of gasses , not magic. No magic required. Nothing was "created", they form naturally, we can use telescopes and watch it happen in other parts of our universe. Open a science book once in a while and put away your need to believe in magic. MAGIC ISN'T REAL. You are reading about ancient superstitions that have been proven false and you stupidly refuse to learn the truth. This isn't 2000 B.C. anymore, try to act a little smarter than the cave dwellers.
DAAAAAAMMMNNN what a smackdown. Alex has become a beast in debating religious people.
This guy obviously isn’t the best to debate genesis but Dr Huge Ross explains why Genesis is right on the order of creation.
When guessing if the universe had a beginning or not completely at random you will get the correct answer 50% of the times... And plenty of cultures completely separate from judaism have creation myths on their own, they believe that the universe had a beginning.
It is the details of that begining what is much harder to guess your way around and so... Every single one of those cultures have got the details wrong.
It is like if I predicted that queen Elizabeth would die sometime next year, due to a fatal wolf attack at a zoo. The queen died that year but I got all the details wrong, am I still a miraculous prophet?
It’s not as intuitive as you’re making it seem since even many scientists got it wrong for a long time and believed the universe had always existed.
The Genesis account of creation doesn’t say the Sun was created after the Earth.
The account is written from the perspective of an observer standing on the surface of the Earth. It tells you the order in which things became visually manifest; what could be seen in which creation epoch. The reference to God making the “two great luminaries for dominating the day and dominating the night” is pointing to what was happening visually. During the first day light diffuses through the atmosphere but its source could not yet be seen. Only until the fourth creation epoch did the Sun and the moon become discernible from the Earths surface.
@@maambomumba6123
Okay... i am afraid that is also wrong. As the earth was first a rocky planet as it was slowly formed from the collision of debris, with the atmosphere and the ocean coming much later.
So the sun was completely visible at all times during the formation of the earth. If there was a time of complete darkness due to the atmosphere that would necessarily come later. The story would have to say that the sun was turn off and the turn on again.
But besides... What is even the purpose of telling the story in such a way that would confuse the reader? Isn't the purpose of it to understand how things come into existence? But it is told in a way in which you could never reach the correct conclusion from it. That the sun indeed existed way before the earth and the moon. Why even mention the creation of those two things if the reader wouldn't even get the correct information from it?
To me it really doesn't matter that much if there is a possible way to read it so that it makes sort of sense... To me what matters is that whoever read the story would always get the order of events wrong. Would come out with a wrong understanding of how these things came into existence and in what order
@@diegog1853 the darkness is only referred to after the Earth is formed. If the Sun is visible at all times why would Genesis describe the surface of the Earth as dark?
@@maambomumba6123 why would genesis describe it like that? Well I don't know... My guess is that the author didn't know anything about planet formation and so he got it wrong, the surface of the earth wasn't dark at all. It could have some darker/colder periods of course. But it is an on and off situation and it is completely arbitrary to start from there.
But more important than that...
Even if You can find a contrived scenario in which the content of the book can be said to be true. Why would the book be written in a confusing way which will convey the wrong information to the reader? Anyone that reads it will get the wrong information out of it, that the earth existed first and then the sun. Right?
Like to me it really doesn't matter if you can find a way in which it can be technically correct (and I disagree you did it), what matters is if it conveys the correct information to the reader, and it doesn't... It fails completely at that.
What is even the point of the book if the readers comes out misinformed about the actual order of events.
I didn't know Daniel Radcliffe was a philosopher! 😂
They are both wrong. First day there was light! The light was not of the sun, which was created later by God.
light comes from stars
this is one way to look at it.
@@mhamedkhattabi5863 true. And?
@@mhamedkhattabi5863 the created light was on day 1. Sun, moon and stars are day 4. Essentially out of darkness came light.
@@onestepaway3232 from where comes light , if the sun moon and stars have not been created yet
That Dinesh carried on believing what he believes with no pause after this exchange tells you everything you need to know about how much rationalization, rather than post-rationalization, is involved.
If anyone is listening, the Genesis creation accounts are not stories of material origins. They are functional origins stories, in dialogue with the prevailing ancient Mesopotamian worldviews of their contemporaries.
That's a nice way to say fictional...
@@danielkeizer4174 No, I'm saying it's a home story, not a house story. Homes are made from relationships, memories, hospitality, atmosphere, etc. It has more to do with the people that live together in the house-which itself is made of wood or bricks or stone, and has a history of its own. Neither story is necessarily wrong or fictional.
@@JosiahTheSiah that's a false analogy. And it doesn't adress the problem with the biblical claims not being backed up by observations. So either that didn't happen and it's just a fictional story that's just based on cultural appropriation of myth. Wich is fine ofcourse, but makes it that creation story can't possibly be correct. Or it is descriptive and how this supposed god actually made it, wich isn't what can be seen. Can't harmonize these contradictions.
@@danielkeizer4174 that's a false dichotomy.
@@JosiahTheSiah is it? Prove that then.
This video has more cuts in it than a suit pattern
The writers of Genisis DON'T know that they are assuming that because everything they SEE has a beginning. So Alex should have said "How do you know that they KNOW that? All you know is that they are SAYING that .They could be lying, teasing, mistaken, guessing."
This guy is an absolute fraud. I'll try to watch because it looks like Alex is handling him nicely, but he's such a charlatan.
He's a grifter.
Alex is also a charlatan.
This is not disproving Genesis, no matter how smug this atheist is about it. Genesis states that there is light before the creation of the sun: “And God said, let there be light”. This light is coming from God, an all-powerful being. The physical sun however was not created until God’s fourth ‘day’ as described by Genesis 1:14. So tell me, how is this contradictory to modern science?
Haven't read genesis in a while, have you?
Each day of creation ends with "and the evening and morning was" the 1st, 2nd, 3rd day
Basically in the book it says the sun was created on the fourth day, coming after the first day, when the earth was made, this is false because the sun was there before the earth, there weren’t 4 days where the world sat there with no sun, I believe in god but this part of this book isn’t adding up
The sun is around 500 million years older then the earth
@@mattshepherd1736 The source of the light (equivalent to the sun) in the first four days was from God himself. If God created the entire universe, how is it unplausible that he could have produced this light? What else is meant by "Let there be light" on the first day?
Lol my dude grow up. Might as well read Harry Potter or a Spiderman comic.
Beginning and end are constructs of consciousness, and the universe is under no obligation to be confined to such notions.
This is so embarrassingly easy to counter I'm pretty sure God said let there be LIGHT FIRST 😂😂
So we know sun existed before earth, but bible says opposite. your counter to that is "but light existed before earth"
We are talking about THE SUN.
Amazing reading and listening comprehension.
5 stars. For effort that is.
God created light in verse 3 of King James version. Guess what happened in verses 1 and 2?
@@tatiana4050 Verse 1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Heavens first, then earth. It’s obviously a metaphor. It’s a way simplified way of explaining creation in a flowery style. It’s an artistic expression. God didn’t write it and neither did a scientist. It probably started as a verbal story.
People can make fun all they want and knit pick stupid points .. Believing in God will radically change your life for the better, and by your own standards you will be better off
@@Sweet_T4u well that's not what the person in the video argued.
And kjv is a very poor translation.
And actually working to improve your life will help a lot more than believing in some magical fairy
@@Sweet_T4u Wow, that was a wild ride.