Find the Plot Behind the Plot | Writing Thrillers
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 чер 2020
- I'm going over an essential factor of writing thrillers--knowing the plot behind the plot! This is either a drafting/outlining or revision tool, depending on where you are in the process.
I'm sharing what this is and why you need it, as well as more exact methodology for doing it.
How To Write A Damn Good Thriller book review: • A Damn Bad Craft Book:...
Add THE IVIES, my YA thriller featuring competitive college admissions & murder, out in 2021, on Goodreads! / the-ivies
+OTHER PROJECTS+
Support NovelTea Show on Patreon! We're launching a podcast, with your support. / novelteashow
+BUY MY BOOKS+
Add THE STARS WE STEAL (Jane Austen + The Bachelor, in space) on Goodreads: / the-stars-we-steal
Buy BRIGHTLY BURNING from Book Depository (ships worldwide!): www.bookdepository.com/Bright...
Buy BRIGHTLY BURNING on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Brightly-Burni...
Get Brightly Burning on Audible.com! www.audible.com/pd/Brightly-B...
+LINKS+
Goodreads:
/ brightly-burning
Twitter:
/ alexadonne
Instagram:
/ alexadonne
Newsletter Sign-Up:
alexadonne.com/newsletter/
Website:
alexadonne.com/
Wattpad:
www.wattpad.com/user/alexadonne
+FILMING SPECS+
Camera: Canon t6i
Mic: Rode VideoMic Go Light
Lighting: Limo Studio Soft Kit
Editing Software: Pinnacle Studio 22 - Навчання та стиль
And we're back! Sorry for having this up and then reuploading: an astute viewer caught a freezing error I missed! :)
Well, I'll just have to mark it as a fave twice then.
Was super confused to see this twice lol
Oh, like in music! There is the main beat, then the best of the words
Thank you so much, Alexa! I decided to start writing my first murder mystery last fall. Discovering your channel and all your thriller tips have been super timely! I’m so grateful for the content you provide :)
Is that why I was told by UA-cam that it was a private video when I clicked on it? Because you had to remove it for a bit? It annoyed me to find it in my list and yet not be able to watch it the first 3 times I tried.
But all's well that ends well. Thank you for the video, I definitely have to see if I'm doing this in my writing!❤
So, tips for filling in all those "hidden scene" moments for the antag at the end so it all makes sense for the reader--WITHOUT the villain monologue moment, or a "little did you know" situation?
Make every written scene imply the "hidden scene" so that when you read the ending, it all connects and falls together.
I think this important for any genre where you have a twist than involves a villain reveal. My YA fantasy story has my MC battling a "decoy villain" for most of the story, with the real villain being revealed just before the Break Into 3. So much fun to have a plot brewing secretely in the background!
Thank you for your videos, Alexa!
This is very helpful in my manuscript. It's a fantasy, not a thriller, but there are things going on behind the scences. I think many writers forget that antagonists continue to exist when they are not on the page. I write up a list of what the antagonist(s) is doing behind the scenes start to finish to see if it makes sense and there's enough trickling into the actual scenes.
Fully fleshed out antagonists are very critical. The stronger and better the antagonist, the more the protagonist has to struggle to win. Even better is if the antagonist is right (ie not the stereotypical baddie).
Susan Dennard has an excellent system for revising a book. I adapted her index card system into a digital list and did as she suggested, reducing EVERY scene in the book to 1-2 sentences. Then I teased out all subplot and behind the scenes events and put them into lists as well. Then I read through these simplified lists end to end. It really shows what is there and what is not and if it makes any sense at all.
@spill the hot chocolate No problem. I felt totally lost with revisions until I found her website. I hope it goes well!
Can you give me the link to the revising method please? I would love to check it out!
@spill the hot chocolate I hope it works out for you. What are you working on at the moment?
Okay, watching this, I had the idea to split my ridiculously huge novel (150K literary romance lol) into two separate books. It’s already two mostly separate but parallel storylines, and this might actually strengthen it by letting me keep each one more cohesive. No idea if it’ll work, but I think I’ll give it a shot!
i dont really read thrillers but this was really insightful. i always love digging into books like this
I started watching your videos a few weeks ago and I decided to check out your book and I'm getting it today!! I'm so excited! Keeping doing what you're doing! Thank you for inspiring and helping writers like myself
I've added this to my "Novelcraft" playlist because it's so important to Cogitate on this for the craft. Funny how the current string of videos are doing more than the crop of published craft books available. I'm currently inhaling Save the Cat Writes a Novel & loving it. There are some interesting connecting fibers to Dan Harmon's Plot Embryo & Randy Orton's And But Therefore framework. So much annotation & footnoting opportunities. It's become a great Prep-CampNaNoWriMo read. My iBooks iPad it getting the test.
Looking forward to the next post Alexa 🤗
Thanks for the idea of a novelcraft playlist.🙂
Sold! I’m a pantser, but for my first attempt at a thriller I do want to do more planning than usual. It will be... fun? terrifying? revealing, at the very least, to get into my villain’s head and look at the story from his angle, where he thinks of himself as the hero.
I always use this technique but not knowing I use it 😂. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for uploading! I'm taking notes while watching your videos because I find it helpful. 💜❤️
This could not have come to me at a better time, I’ve been struggling to understand how to outline my book so that it fits the image I have of it in my head bc it seemed so complex but you worded it perfectly 😭💓💓
I just watched this tonight. I got to thinking about my antagonist and decided to write her story to explain her actions throughout the mystery book I'm writing. I couldn't believe how helpful it was. I discovered so much more about her character and events that will take place in the book and other characters who are connected to her. It also led to a better ending for my story. I could not believe how truly devious she became. It was exhilarating! Thank you!
Hello! This is my first time commenting on your video and I just notice your channel this morning and I really love it♥
This is amazing advice, thank you!! Obsessed with your videos. I'm just about to finish 1st draft so I've been looking for revision tips so I have a plan ready to go :)
This is life-saving advice. Bless you
This is such an interesting way to describe this particular crafting tool! I had to take notes. I’m thinking of ways I can use it in my Adventure and Romance books too. Thanks for sharing Alexa.
This is super helpful. I'm a pantser and into my first draft revision right now. Just finished doing my scene-by-scene plot for the story and am totally going to do the same for my plot behind the plot. Your timing with the video is perfect 👌🏻
This helps me a LOT, Alexa! Thank you!
That double plotline is such an awesome idea!
Thank you for tackling this, I took a lot from this video. I think a great supplement to the idea of the story behind the story is the (very spoilery) breakdown of the movie "Ex Machina" from the YT channel Lessons from the Screenplay. It also gave me great insights on how to obscure things from the audience.
This will help tons. Thank you.
Thank you!
I normally create a timeline before writing a story. From the year the character (both MC and antagonist) was born until the present time. I note any significant event that might have happened in a particular year or month. This also helps solidify their personalities. I love backstories. It makes writing the actual story feel more authentic.
I've been doing this but confusing the two plots as one! I'll go fix it right away.
Thank you a lot for that advice! It's funny that I use that technique for my novel at work, but the actual plot point kinda mixed up with the plot behind the plot. Will separate them from now on.
Another good video. I’ve heard this described as "The Story as it Happened (background plot)," and "The Story as it is Told." And that the first story is as or more important than the second, at least in preventing logic gaps. It doesn't have to be as flowery (just the facts, ma'am) but should be more detailed.
Uuf this is the hardest part about writing for me. I don't write thrillers, but most of my stories have a mystery thread of some kind. I always get story ideas for the MC's experience plot line first and completely fall in love and then have to figure out how to create a plot-behind-the-plot to fit my darlings.... Unsurprisingly, it never works. It's like building a house and then trying to lay the foundation. I am pretty familiar with crafting the reader experience/MC's plot with Save the Cat beats etc, but if you have any tips for coming up with the content of what actually happens in the plot-behind-the-plot, I'd love to see more videos on this topic.
Have you tried plotting the story from the villain's POV, with them as the main character? Then, the things they do will line up and make sense, in relation to their own motivation. After that, all you have to do is braid the two stories (hero's and villain's) together and make them react appropriately to each other, but the only way we see the villain's reactions on the page is when they affect the hero (as we're in their POV).
I read and write thrillers, I definitely agree with plot behind the plot method. You can always feel the main plot building in your mind while reading other plots(chapters & Scenes).
But my question is how thick the main foundational plot should be, sometimes I get too deep in foundational plot I forget about main plot and get stuck on writing .?
Question!!! How do you find beta readers or approach the idea of traditional publishing or find an agent?
Hey Alexa! Thanks for the tutorial, or tip... Can I ask you a question? (If you said 'No' I am very sorry since I am going to ask anyway. )
(I'm talking abt Frame stories btw) How can I fuse an inner story to the main story? Cause I searched all over the internet, but there wasn't one result, and also I was too shy to ask my professor, shes really strict.
The best advice is what Alexa suggests around two-thirds through the video: line up the plot in two (or so) columns with background details/actions that aren’t going to make the cut, and see how they can work together. Some rows will only have one event as one plot’s actions will take place between the other’s. The truth of all writing is that you need to just dive in and start, so then you will have material to edit and tweak. There’s no other way - even a theoretical plot plan will likely fall apart if not executed!
You’re so pretty! Thanks so much for all your input
Yes, like a cute owl from Duolingo 🐙)))
I have a question, I have seen the figure of 250 words a page tossed around a lot on the net. However I'm about 75,000 words into my manuscript and my average word count it over 450 per page. Is there some weird font used for publishing? Or do books just use like size 15 font?
RevanJager Gaming I believe the font is Time New Roman.
If you count the words in books per page I think 250 is average, but not the rule. It's just how publishing companies keep track of a set page count in the page limit they set on authors rather than going by the page count that the author tells them. Hence asking for the word count of your WIP rather than the page count. Over 100,000 words? Too long of a book for the company who publishes 75,000, even if your page count on your computer lead you to believe your 300 page book was in the page limits.
At least this was what was explained to me by a publisher. (No I did not get published, though, as I didn't write fiction with the slant they had in mind. A fact that they only tell you after you query them.)
@@kanashiiookami6537 That makes sense, so the words per page don't matter as much as word count. But if 100,000 is to long, I'm going to have to figure out a way to split my manuscript, into two books. I'm up to 85,000 and I'm not quite at the half way point...😅
Random video idea: plotter vs pantsers, what is the difference?
Haven't really been able to find a article / video that goes into the deep end about.
Just mentioning it, never explaining it.
Plotters make a bullet list of all major scenes before they start writing the book. Pantsers don't, so they discover the story in the process of writing.
And people who are both pantser and plotter (like myself) do a rough outline of where they might want the story to go, make notes of dialogue they think will fit (even if they change it) but leave enough wiggle room to have fun with so that they aren't strictly set to write one type of story.
It doesn't mesh with the original idea? The ending changed drastically from what you thought? The MC took control at some point and took the story in a direction you never saw coming? Good, it means that your story will have life rather than be bound and gagged by an outline you realised halfway into the book you didn't like.
If you are unsure which you'd rather be: a pantser who gets overwhelmed/confused by where the story is/should be going but you have no clue how to get there? Or a person who outlines the crap outta your book to the point tossing in dialogue and description is the only thing keeping it from being finished. Try a mix, write the random notes and scenes that pop into your head, but don't go overboard with outlining beyond giving yourself a vague idea of where to end up. This can make writing so much more enjoyable when compared to being strictly one or the other. At least for me it is. ❤
Plotter and pantser/discovery is mostly a spectrum between a person who makes a super detailed outline before they draft and someone who only knows the large basics of the story (or even less) before they draft. (I'm a strict plotter, I do drafts of outlines so I know where everything is supposed to be with a one to sentence to one paragraph description of what's supposed to happen. This doesn't make me feel obligated to the outline, though. If it goes someplace different or something doesn't work, that's fine. Some people do feel like an outline obligates them, though. It's all a matter of how it effects you personally.)
Ellen Brock has a fantastic video on the subject where she clearly outlines the different camps and helps you figure out where you might fit: ua-cam.com/video/eryQEZImm6Y/v-deo.html
I think Alexa has a video on Plotters, Pantsers, and misconceptions of each? I know she's addressed it in some form.
I don't get this technique
Hi Alexa, thanks for all your help. I asked a question before but unfortunately it’s in a video you did a while ago. Could you address language usage such as bad language used by villains? Is foul language a definite no no? Your videos have been a valuable tool!
Only in young adult fiction, usually. Or in religious fiction I suppose. Adult thrillers certainly have foul language.
It's fine! In YA too. My YA thriller has over 100 instances of the f-word in it so... It's upper YA.
So basically the Snowflake Method?
Also, how many times do I have to say Sociopaths are not a monolith?
yeah, it is a commen mistake authors make, staying with their main character all the way instead of beeing aware, what the rest of the cast does at the same time. It leads to vanishing characters, logic leaps, nonsensical timeline wierdness . . .
First