A Damn Bad Craft Book: How To Write A Damn Good Thriller
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2020
- I read the craft book How To Write A Damn Good Thriller and I hated it! I'm going over why it's not an effective craft book and I don't recommend you buy it. But don't worry in addition to salt, I do go into a few salient points so this review might be helpful to aspiring thriller writers regardless!
I did a whole live chat with Laura & Kevin reviewing this book: • Let's Talk Craft: HOW ...
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Two things I forget to mention: Not once does the book mention the word twist, which I would consider essential in discussing thrillers. He also claims that 99% of all thrillers are in 1st person past tense or 3rd person past tense, an incredibly outdated statement. A large number of popular, commercial thrillers today are in 1st person, present tense. 3rd person is rare.
Part of me wishes you would writer your own How 2 Write a Thriller book one day. But now that I think about it, it seems like writing a craft book is like retirement for a writer. It's the book you write when no publisher is charmed by your pitches anymore, and they want to throw you a bone. I did however hear from one writer that the sales from their How 2 craft book easily outstripped the sales from their actual novels.
@@hiplessboy Yeah I do think that is why many writers move into craft book writing. It can be lucrative, and also many of them are good... so if someone has a knack for it, why not! But in cases like this I think it's more of a red flag when an author hasn't written saleable fiction in 20 years.
Thank you Alexa 😃 As a newby writer, at one point I was obsessed with craft books. I think it was because of my insecurity and lack of experience. I read 'How to write a damn good novel' by Frey and thought it was good. Now I'm confused. Are there good craft books that you would recommend? And do you have any suggestions for improving your writing skills? There are so many books, blogs and posts about writing that it can be overwhelming at times. And it is not always easy to decide what are good tips and what are bad tips. Love your Channel and your Videos, it helped me a lot ❤
@@lachimolala9586 Hi, I may not be Alexa and it may not be a craft book, but Janice Hardy's blog, Fiction University has some of the best writing tips I've seen. The examples exemplify what they're supposed to, she provides useful guidelines and the posts have sparked my own eagerness to write several times.
I also recommend checking out the podcast Writing Excuses, which dives into craft, writing process, just about every element of storytelling, and even publication, in digestible chunks. They also give a writing exercise at the end of each session, related to the topic discussed.
These two sources have been tremendously helpful to me and boosted my writing level in a short amount of time.
I will also warn against craft book disease, though, which is, in my experience, a form of procrastination by consuming craft tips instead of actually writing. No matter how good the tips are, excessive reading may overwhelm and leave you afraid to put any words on the page at all, which will stagnate your writing instead.
As they say, everything in moderation.
Best of luck to you, and happy writing!
Wow, this one was a total dud! If you want to review another craft book, may I suggest Story Engineering and Story Physics by Larry Brooks? It’s geared towards plotting, but I thought it was an interesting read on the topic.
I’ve never read a thriller but I’m here for the tea ☕️✨
Cheers for this, I have been researching "how do i begin to write a book" for a while now, and I think this has helped. You ever tried - Yonallie Bookworm Blitzer - (do a search on google ) ? Ive heard some interesting things about it and my friend got great success with it.
I rarely read craft books...I've watched Brandon Sanderson's videos on UA-cam and the thing I've learnt is no matter how great the advice is, I won't go anywhere without actual practice. The advice could always be inspiring, but they aren't shortcuts to success.
Who are a thriller writer's two best friends? Paige Turner and Cliff Hanger.
Still waiting for a thriller writer to use one of these as a pen name. That would be an auto-buy for me. 😂
@@Pajali Oh yeah i dont even read thrillers but id read one by Cliff Hanger
Years ago, I was torn between this book and another one. I ended up buying the other one. I'm so glad I dodged this particular bullet!!!!
@@gnbonney I can't remember exactly which one I had meant at the time. But it was either The Writer's Digest Guide to Science Fiction & Fantasy, The Weekend Novelist, or Story (by Robert McKee).
This book is actually very good. No bullet to be dodged here. His other books are way better though, especially "The Key" and "How to write a damn good novel". I can't agree with the age-ism in this video, it seems quite ignorant to me.
@@janefaceinthewind6260 What ageism?
OKAY so what I'm hearing is... you loved this book? :P
just popping in the comments to compliment dat makeup again, lady!! Those shimmering pinks were a stunning choice.
I used the Colourpop Bye Bye Birdie palette :)
I used to be in a critique group with a couple retired guys, and one of them was addicted to craft books, but of course only of this sort--that is, written by older white men (like him). Any time I would try to explain how things have changed in publishing (having worked in publishing AND being a published author), he would reiterate that "we're all just learning the craft." Thereby mostly negating any experience I have. Of course, he only ever read sci-fi books from the 50s and 60s, so that's also the kind of thing he wrote... Then couldn't understand why he couldn't get published.
I'm part of a screenwriting group and we got some old retired guys as well. Awesome people but sometimes their ideas about the publishing industry are WAY out of date, constantly falling back on "I published x-amount of books." Yeah, back in the 80s!
@@froufroufeatherstone6291 - That's not what they said at all.
@@froufroufeatherstone6291 That's not what they said. Old people are more set in their old ways because they're old. It's not always a bad thing, but becau they are old, their methods are, commonly, outdated. It's unfortunate. But they are still valuable, and so are their books. They just wouldn't get published today because they are, again, outdated.
Just Some Mustache Without a Guy I would say don’t close your mind to them. There’s information to be gained everywhere and in unexpected places.
Have you considered writing a craft book? Like taking many of your points here and elaborating this into a full book? And could be something that more modern writers would be interested in reading.
I feel like I need to write and publish way more books before I could reasonably be considered an authority! I feel like I'm still learning so much.
I was literally about to suggest the same thing! Once you've gotten a few more thriller on your belt, you should consider writing a thriller craft book-- especially since there seems to be a need in the market that has been so far unfulfilled.
@@andreannelavoie660 I wish Dan Brown would write one. I'm watching his Masterclass and it's really good.
@@AlexaDonne I totally get it. Maybe start taking notes for one though. I have been doing that for another project.
I read this book and I liked it. My favorite part, and what I remember taking from the book in my own writing, was the “plot behind the plot” bit, which I also find useful for writing B plots and making them interact with the main plot in non-thrillers. I feel like most writers just hate craft books. I like them, though, and read a lot of them. Any one won’t give you everything, but I get something useful from every single one, without exception, including this one.
You're usually so positive and supportive, so watching you shit on a book (with valid reasons!) gives me such immense pleasure
I try so hard to see the good in books, and there was even some good in this one, but the vast majority of it was a literal waste of my money and that makes me sad :( (I'm very cheap)
She’s not right. I am reading his fiction book and it’s amazing!!
@@theartzscientist8012 It's not that she's not right, it's that you're pissy that she doesn't agree.
@@NightOwlReader2790 I’ve never been pissy. Lol
I love your assessments! I read his other book, "How to write a damn good Mystery," and Amazon keeps pushing this one on me. Both installments sound relatively similar, so I can understand why AMZ keeps suggesting this one, but seriously, the genre aspect is super important. One basic definition I like about these two genres - can't recall where I found it - is that they are timeline fiction. Mysteries deal with the past - trying to sort out something that's already happened. While thrillers deal with the future - trying to sort something out that's threatened to happen. Each includes elements of the other, and I've always wondered why there isn't more exploration specific to these genres.
Also, I've found lots of craft books by female authors. Classics like Bird By Bird by Anne Lamont or Artist's Way by Julia Cameron immediately come to mind. I know they're old, but both are still in print and updated with revisions or new forwards or whatever, and I consider them timeless. I know they're more about the creative process in general or esoteric aspects of prose, but I think reading a range of books on a subject gives one a more rounded perspective.
Hearing your distinction about trad-pub makes me wonder why that's important. I've read some terrible books over the years, both trad-pub and self-pub, but at the very least the contrast makes good books and their better advice stand out. If you find better craft books, I hope you'll share them. This was a fun subject and I really like your rapport in the live chat. I hope you're planning to do more of those.
The only craft book on writing I own is "How NOT to write a novel." It's hilarious and is great because is acknowledges that writing is subjective. Instead of telling you what is good, it has 200 funny examples of what can possibly kill your story, characterization, and more. However be warned; it's not for the thin-skinned.
I learned more from that book then all others combined. There's also a blog How to write badly, well. It's been a few years since I visited, so I don't know if it's still active, but it's worth checking out.
This is my first time commenting even though I've been lurking around since the start of this year. Just wanted to say I love the content in your channel, Alexa. There's genuine, solid information/ advice/ awesomeness in here (that I haven't seen anywhere else especially the ones about the industry and querying). Love your videos, Alexa!
Great points, Alexa! I skimmed this book as well, it was just...awful. One of my top 3 craft books is Mastering Suspense, Structure, and Plot. It's so so good and actually involves steps (ha!) and practical examples. I picked it up before writing my thriller, but this book outlines the principles for any genre, which I love.
Hallie Ephron's 'Writing and Selling Your Mystery Novel, Revised/Expanded' is an EXCELLENT guide on putting together a whodunnit that I'd recommend to anyone. She lays out every step for you take, tweak, or leave at your discretion from how to build your detective to plotting red herrings and just...ugh it's invaluable.
I adore this video and I’m so glad that you posted it. I struggled to read this book and thought I was crazy since so many people gave it five stars!
Hi,I'm a teen writor and I really love your videos!I'm having a bit of trouble with the middle of my thriller so can you make a video about going through that?Thank you !
Thank you for this comment! I'm a teen writer too and I have the exact same problem.
Saanvi T I’m not a teen writer lol but I am writing my first book. It’s a romance so keep that in mind. But I hit the middle of my book and I was struggling. So some things that helped me.
1. Character voice journals- like a free form diary I would just write about the characters experience in their voice, as though they were writing a diary entry. Won’t ever be printed, no one will see it. It’s just you writing about how your character is processing their environment. I wrote a new few paragraphs every chapter to see how my characters evolved. Eventually I hit a point where I knew my characters well enough to stop needing to do that.
2. Future scenes- I wrote a few future scenes right at the beginning. Beats I knew I wanted to hit. It gave me material to work towards. I had to edit it once I got there, but it was really helpful. I also threw a lot of these scenes in the trash. They didn’t work out, my characters changed, etc. it helped me realize the directions my book was taking away from my original outline.
3. Open plot point list- I have a tiny $1 notebook where I take notes. I keep a list of open plot points that need to be finished so I don’t lose any threads. It also shows me how much more I need to cover. This list has been the most helpful thing for me late game in my writing. It’s easy to lose plot points when you’re 200 pages into your book (which I am! Sorry I’m excited about it lol).
4. Different pov- so sometimes I write little scenes in a different character pov then the ones in my novel. Little bonus scenes so to speak. By jumping into a side character who I don’t normally inhabit (in my head space) I’m able to more fully process them and their own thought process. So say you only focus on your protagonist with the villain in the background. Look at a pivotal scene. Now rewrite it from the villains pov and see how that changes your perceptions of them or any plot holes you might find. I keep all my extra scenes in their own folder away from my main story. But rereading them helps me remember where my other characters are going. They can’t be standing still while only the two mains move forward. I’m trying to somewhat develop every side character. Giving them minor moments that still move them forward in time with the leads.
I hope this helps! -Hanna
Search my channel for both the word "middle" and "thriller beats"--I have two videos that should help!
Very thorough review. I like craft books, but I'm glad you pointed out the age of the author's last books. It's something I'll keep in mind for the future.
Have you read Plot and Structure by James Scott Bell? Maybe you could review that one....
Hiiii I've been binge-watching your videos ever since I've hit a writer's block, especially the ones about thrillers and I just wanna say thank you for the wonderful contents 😊
Honestly what is a thriller? Lol
I feel like im not alone in not knowing the difference between mystery, suspense, and thriller.
I've heard that it has more to do with marketing so thrillers are more fast paced and have a higher element of danger. But then books by Celeste Ng and the Lovely Bones are considered literary thrillers. So if the difference is not in the pace. What is it in?
I am halfway (about 50,000 words) through my 1st draft of my very complex thriller. Looking forward to your up coming videos. If you could address how many twist are too many and how many POVs are too many in one of these I would really appreciate it. Thanks for all you do
I suffered. But I forgive you :) I'm just glad to be vindicated in my one star review, and I'm glad that we could give that book more accurate reviews! It was drowning in praise before.
My most helpful sources for thriller and suspense are actually you! Another thing that was kind of helpful was Save the Cat Writes a novel, but specifically the genre chapters for "Whydunit" and "Monster In The House". They have some great examples and outline a few essential elements that can help with brainstorming.
I wonder, in this era of UA-cam and social media, if craft books are on the brink of extinction. There is so much free content available, I don't think they can compete. I could see Master Classes by famous authors taking over the space for paid learning to an extent. At this point, if you can't offer some one-on-one attention, what is your book gonna do that the internet can't to make it worth the money? The well-written craft books can become dated quickly.
Where were you six months ago!
I made the mistake of picking up this book and agree with you wholeheartedly. I am currently writing a psychological thriller and there is practically nothing in Frey's book that helped me. The handful of good nuggets that were in there can be found in other books on craft and on the internet. And they really weren't specific to the thriller genre anyway.
Looking forward to the upcoming videos that this problematic book inspires.
I think the best craft books are the ones that aren’t so much abt the formula of story but what a story is. I love Lisa Cron’s wired for story because it’s more about getting the story juices flowing than the sequence of events a book needs. I actually quite enjoy Anatomy of Story by Turbee and Story by McKee because theyre in that same vein. The best way to look at Craft books for me has been to think if that advice feels true or to see if its the same idea as another writing tip just phrased in a way that doesnt work for me.
As for this book specifically tbh not having Dan Brown in a craft book written after 05 feels wrong lol. My favorite thing abt Save the Cat Writes a Novel is that they use a popular novel, a classic, and a novel you wouldn’t think fits the idea but does in the context of that story (ie: the whiff of death in confessions of a shopaholic = losing her credit card).
Omg she has a whole online class through Linda, which is accessible through the public library online class resources
Truby's "Anatomy of story" is indeed amazing! I feel like it makes you understand WHY certain things work or don't instead of dictating what you should include or not in a story.
You know what IS damn good....that eye makeup look 😍 I spent the whole video staring at that gorgeous shimmery pinkness!
Commenting before watching.. read it last year and can’t remember anything from it. Can’t wait for your input
I was reading How To Write A Da*n Good Mystery and it said that after a detective finds clues and talks to suspects and knows who the murderer is then revealing why and explaining why to (Insert Person Who Is Apprehending Suspect Here) and who the murderer is is old and out of date. Apparently having the detective hunt and stop the murderer is the way to go. I planned on writing it the second way since the suspects are all detained (maybe not decided) and there was no need for hunting. What do y'all think?
I was reading one of those "how to write a damn good" books, and halfway through I thought I would read one of the author's fiction books to see where he was coming from. I think it was called "winter of the wolves." It was so laughably awful it was entertaining. He wrote pages of description where every sentence began with "the", soundrd like a police report. But there was one line of dialogue I thought was brilliant, I remember it word for word: "you ask me what kind of friend he was? I will tell you what kind of friend he was. He was the kind of friend that would not sell you out for the price of a cheap bottle of booze." Amazing......oh God who farted these words?
Have you read Rachel Aaron's "2k-to-10k" book? It's pretty short but very useful if you are okay with setting aside 10 minutes to pre-write.
This was a harsh review, but fair and thorough. Very informative for this writer (who does not write thrillers but might have written an Agatha Christie-inspired detective story back in the day).
I love good thrillers, and I love videos exposing bad ones and especially vids exposing really bad craft books! I'm strongly considering buying THE IVES when I'm less broke again because I need more thiller in my life. That being said, your videos are very helpful and inspiring! I want to become a published author myself and I can't really fully decide wether to go into horror, thriller or fantasy at first since I love all three of these genres very strongly! Do you maybe have advice on how to choose one's genre?
Have you read "Bird by Bird" by Anne Lamott? It's more for nonfiction, but I found it helpful for my fiction as well. She has a humorous style that isn't prescriptive at all.
I watched this livestream and loved all two and half hours of it
A bit off topic but I just noticed brightly burning at the bottom left corner of your shelf and I keep getting distracted and kept looking at it 👁👄👁
The best craft book I have read, and I have read a bunch, is The Anatomy of Story by John Truby. It is a screenplay book, but it is all applicable to fiction authors as well.
Not for the fainthearted. It was well worth buying and there's some good stuff in it but I think you'd have to either have had a film background or have already written a book or two in order to pin what he says to something solid. Thank God I was familiar with Casablanca and Tootsie.
I've been looking for craft books and now thanks to you I know exactly what not to buy
1. I am sufficiently expert on the Odyssey that I started blogging a commentary on reading it in the original Greek. (I only finished Book 1 before other commitments pulled me away.) I've never heard anyone describe it as a thriller before, although I realize you yourself did not.
2. Would the book have worked for you better if the author said upfront they were describing one specific approach to writing one particular style of thriller?
This was one of the first craft books I read (in 2010). I did like his Damn Good Novel better. Still, it kicked off some thaughts about my book into the right direction in the beginning. However, as my story continued to develop, and the more I learned, the more I came to the same conclusions you did.
I have yet to finish my book. I have had several periods of just setting it aside. However, Craig Johnston told me that's okay. He put his first book away for 10 years before being reminded to pull it out again. Life just got in the way. He encouraged me to keep going. He's a super nice guy and very 'down to earth'.... and had a great sense of humor. 🙂
I watched the live chat and I am glad I didn't read it. Loved your video and your view on topics.
It's for general stories and not thrillers but the only craft book i've read and really found useful is The anatomy of a story in 22 steps! :) But we live in a day and age where i'm more likely to search "how to" on youtube than in books.... and find this channel!
thanks for the review; once you find a good crafting book, could you rec it?
also, your eye makeup is SO Pretty!!!!!
Thanks Alexa, but this video is a little late for me. I started reading this book a few months ago and couldn't finish it. His excerpts of personal writing stopped me cold.
I love that you went and made that meme to channel the salt. And put it into the video.
Not specifically about trillers, but “Hello fruture me (youtube channel)” is one of my best sources of writing craft.
(He also does a lot of stuff with Avatar the last airbender and Legend of Korra btw. 😁)
I'm writing a thriller/crime/mystery at the moment and I'm worried it wont be marketable because she's kind of a hybrid. On the one hand, super feminist themes, every main character is a woman, people of colour do actually exist. But the themes are very...adult literature, as opposed to fluffy beach read. I'm basically using a genre I like and that's accessible to have a discussion about something we neglect to speak about but that is a bit 'high brow' (ugh, gross term) and I spend half of my writing time worried that its just not what a publisher wants. I can only hope I find an agent who gets my: thriller for the thinking woman schtick.
I have a similar dilemma!!! Currently I’m writing fantasy, but it fluctuates through into dark fantasy, suspense and at times brushes the surface of sci-fi ... Another odd habit I seem to have, which is similar to something Alexa Donne has done and talked about previously, is I write in fluctuating voices. Lately I’ve been obsessed with YA, and this style of writing has seeped into my normal narrative. I’m also afraid when (and if ever) I find an agent, I will be told that my voice is all over the place.
What do you think about "Don't Murder Your Mystery" by Chris Roerdon? Mystery focused, but pretty generally applicable-- I thought it was really helpful!
Alexa Donne. Not related to the video, but I just wanted you to know. I just read "Brightly Burning" and loved it. When I get a chance, I will read "The Stars We Steal." I love your channel, but now I am a book fan as well. ;)
Make her day, go to Goodreads and Amazon and have that to say.
@@kerneywilliams632 excellent idea. I listened to the audible version, so I reviewed the book on there and on Goodreads. ;)
Hi Alexa, I wonder what your take might be on ‘how not to write a novel’ by Sandra Newman and Howard Mittelmark. I found it far less prescriptivist than most craft guides, pretty funny, and accessible since it’s broken down into tropes (before TV Tropes was a ‘thing’). Despite the title, there is also a sense of acknowledgement that tropes are tools, and that the things they list are more “these are things which are easy to do badly.”
So I need to know! What brand and color is your lipstick?!!!
It's Charlotte Tilbury Hot Lips 2 in Dancefloor Princess! I love it so much I bought a refill which I have never done before! It's creamy and smells like chocolate too :)
I met James N Frey while on a book tour for my memoir in 2011. He attended a small Author signing in London. He was very Skeptical But he bought a book. I was very surprised when he gave me a good review on Amazon. Now I’m wondering if it was worth anything LOL.
Is there any chance you'll do a live Q&A or record video answering questions we post to comments?
What do you think about Truby's book? I think it's a decent guide, gives a writer a lot to think about regarding charcater connections, creating multi-dimmensional characters, etc, but it should be taken with a few grains of salt. However, I have seen his book praised as a useful tool to unstick mucky middles by many authors, including Susan Denard. I admit it has also helped me figure out my sticky spots.
I love what Stephen King has said about writing about writing:
"Most books about writing are filled with bullshit."
He came to the shelves in 1973 but I think he has stayed honest and humble.
Tbh all craft books should be taken with a grain of salt. None are a 100% truths but tools to pull out when needed. Brandon Sanderson says that a lot in his lectures. That he’s giving you like a screwdriver and telling you what it’s for but it’s up to you to choose when and how to use it
I feel like you took a hit for the team by reading this and going over it so we don’t have. Lol. Thank you for your videos!
Ooooh I was waiting for this one!!
I don't write thrillers but this rant was very entertaining 🤭
And unprofessional, and racist. Very taken aback as a writer myself. Wow.
"How to Write Mystery" edited by Lee Child is a great resource, for the thriller sub-genre, too. It highlights advice from a long list of accomplished mystery authors (old and young) so you get a range of advice; sometimes conflicting advice to show that something will not necessarily work for everyone yet someone can use either tip and still potentially become successful. It touches on the thriller sub-genre a lot and the advice for other kinds of mysteries also frequently applies. This book was just recently published, too.
That not good that the book is outdated. Guess I am donating that book. Bought it, because I wanted to join in the chat on that live stream, but could not make it. Only read a couple of pages. Great video.
Great advice as always.
Have you checked out the thriller writing craft book: "Suspense Thriller: How to Write Chase, Spy, Legal, Medical, Psychological, Political & Techno-Thrillers (Genre Writer)" by Paul Tomlinson?
If so, what are your thoughts on the book?
Can I request a video on the difference between suspense and thriller? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I often come across the term "high concept" when reading articles/books about writing thrillers. Maybe you can explain this term in your next video.
Police Procedural is what "Into the Woods" would be categorized as. And thank you for the video!
I love that book SO much
Is it possible that the lack of relevant references is a problem of definition? I remember I used to have a narrower, more action-oriented definition of what a thriller is, and I could accept someone referring to Agatha Christie, Gillian Flynn or Tana French as mysteries. Maybe the word shifted meaning somewhere around the year 2000?
That doesn't make the book good, of course, if it's too vague to be helpful even with that one type of thriller. But I'd give him the benefit of the doubt I guess?
The problem is this book was published in 2010...
@@AlexaDonne Yeah, I agree it's not good. But at least it makes a little bit more sense to me.
Alexa Donne And that makes Stephen King’s On Writing book quite IRRELEVANT? Yeah, okay. Sure. 🤔
This was deliciously salty. Please do Steven Pressfeild's The War of Art next, which features such jems as 'if people followed their dreams there would be no mental illness".
I got to the live chat late but besides many issues mentioned it seemed weird is you said he never mentioned James Patterson once. It's like writing How To Write a Horror and never talking about Steven King. You have to look at people in the field.
Also Homer- it's definitely not thriller. I've taught the book several times and we would NEVER EVER say it's a thriller. Someone did not thoroughly edit this book.
Yes! Patterson's another huge one. And I mean some Stephen King books also edge on thrillers--not mentioning him, either, is a choice. (as horror suspense is a popular subgenre of commercial thrillers)
There's one book that you might consider reading called The Story Grid, by Shawn Coyne. He's got experience as an editor. Occasionally he can be a little proscriptive because - for example, the main work he focuses on is Silence of the Lambs, a thriller, and he says there are 7 things that MUST be in your thriller, and I kinda agreed with those things. I liked the book, personally, because he laid things out very clearly, and said some things I had never heard before. For example, when he talked about the internal and external quests, he mentioned that in our lives, we have things that work out and things that don't, and that rings true for us. So if your character achieves the external quest, they shouldn't get the internal one. Or it shouldn't end positively. It should end ironically. He's a lot more articulate than I am. I'm paraphrasing here. But what's also interesting about this book is that Coyne has recruited some editors and now they do podcasts and videos and it's all part of the Story Grid family, and they "study" with him? And are then able to help people with their own work under his system? Honestly, it feels a little... too multi-level marketing for me, but at the same time, the people themselves are really knowledgable, smart and charming, so I don't know. Anyways, if you're looking for a craft book where the main book they study is a thriller, StoryGrid does so. Thanks for the videos! I appreciate the candor and chattiness.
The one dislike is James Frey himself.
I remember when action / thriller were pretty synonymous in the 90s (or at least I thought they were, given how it was all categorised in video stores), to the extent that I'm still not *entirely* sure I know now what a thriller even is, except that it's a word critics use when they're ashamed to say "horror"
When you started counting on your fingers in asl I almost screamed!
I learned in elementary school and have done it ever since :) I was also in signing choir though I have forgotten almost everything.
What are your top 10 YA thrillers someone should read before starting to write one of their own?
So the tricky thing w/ YA thrillers is there's a very limited canon of them so far. You generally want to read only recently released ones that reflect current writing styles/trends, and we're still in the rising part of the trend. So meaning of course there have always been YA thrillers but in terms of a highly recommended canon to help someone writing right now... it's limited. With that said, definitely start with the current bestsellers: One of Us Is Lying and A Good Girl's Guide to Murder. Read Kara Thomas; the one I most recommend is The Darkest Corners. Wilder Girls is speculative horror, but I think it's regardless possibly helpful to a thriller writer. A Danger To Herself And Others is an interesting one from last year. People Like Us by Dana Mele. Sadie. A bit older and by a friend of mine and didn't break out but man should have: Trust Me I'm Lying by Mary Elizabeth Summer. It also kind of depends on what kind of one you want to write? I actually have found reading select YA thrillers in combination with a TON of adult ones very helpful.
I enjoyed this video. Thank you.
I actually had an out-loud "WTF" moment when you mentioned he called the works of Homer a Thriller. I had to explain to my family that I didn't hurt myself and was just watching a video.
The Story Boom Equation by Susan May Warren is pretty nice. I was gifted it by someone in my writing group, and though I haven't read all of it, I do like it.
On Writing by Stephen King is a great craft book. It gives you the fundamentals in a succinct form. And encourages you to let go of anxiety and trust the reader more.
Also it's a great autobiography.
I've been meaning to read that one b/c people rave about it and everytime I see a writing quote from him I wholeheartedly agree with it! I think he and I have similar styles/opinions on writing.
Agree, I think this one's great!
It's a good book, but it's overrecommended and there are better craft books out there if you have tastes beyond King, Crichton and Koontz.
It's still surreal that an old screenshot from The Brave of Sun Fighbird caught on like that.
The best craft books I've read are the ones that ignite your passion, the worst craft books I've read are always the ones that are prescriptive and give you step by step guides. Which is annoying as I would really appreciate a step by step guide as there are so many aspects to writing that are difficult. The last one I read gave the advice to invest in a good dictionary. I mean, yeah I guess I could, or I could just use online dictionaries. Although saying that, I just bought 'How to write deep scenes' so hoping that it will be a good helpful read!
I read Elizabeth Georges Book about her process to write books, and I did enjoy that a lot, because it is very clearly about just how she does things and not a "this is how you have to work" thing. Basically, it felt like an interesting person giving me some tips and advice. (Though I have to point out I haven't yet read her books, I got this one as a present.
"Unity of Opposites" is a term that goes _way_ back to Lagos (pronounced L-eye-oh-sh) Egri's _Art Of Dramatic Writing_ (originally published in what, the 1940s? But its principles still hold up and it could easily be said that a certain show of recent years called _Game of Thrones_ basically failed in the end because it disregarded some of the basic principles in this book (mainly the idea of transition, where people change GRADUALLY, if a step is missing the audience will feel like something is off, and won't buy it)). It goes beyond "oh I just really don't like this person". An example one website gave was that if two groups of baseball fans (both siding with opposite teams) got in a brawl, there would be no unity of opposites because any mature adult could just walk away and agree to disagree. But if both sides have, say, money on the line (and serious consequences if they lose), then it's FAR more believable (and can more effectively create rising conflict).
I've read a lot of "craft" books, mostly cherry-picked what stood out for me and what didn't, and honestly the best books on the craft of writing in general (I mostly stick to screenplays and stage plays, very _very_ different from novels though there is some crossover) were those written with a focus on playwriting (there are FAR fewer books on this subject, say what you want but Egri's book and books of a similar vein feel far more genuine than 99% of books on writing).
amazing video
tbh I just recently read the Odyssey and I can see elements that could be excellent to use as examples of how to build tension (the setup for when Odysseus returns home and is planning to kill the suitors), but the Odyssey as a whole definitely isn’t a thriller.
I’m thinking about it now and the Odyssey actually has a LOT of thriller elements (not that it makes it a thriller or anything) but I could definitely see it being used as an interesting example to show how aspects of thriller writing can and should be used to great effect in other types of stories :0
doubt he did that tho lols
I love reading craft books, but only if they have information that someone who truly loves the craft is teaching from their heart, with honestly helpful advice coming from their own experiences. But the "bad" craft books (in my opinion) are the ones that sound like a cluster of tright "show don't tell" info they copied and pasted from Google.
I honestly think you should write a book on writing thrillers
I have the _How to Write a Damn Good Novel_ version, but I haven't read it yet.
THE BOOMER-IST OF BOOMERS!!!!!
I think I might have read an article written by this guy a while ago.
My question is - are these Tom Clancy world-is-at-stake type books still work in today’s market, with a more modern take, and way more gay? I realize my novel is more like Tom Clancy than Knives Out due to the scale involved.
Had to bring in ethnicity. So let’s go down that road if it had been old black, Hispanic or Asian me. It would of been acceptable or maybe even good right?
She obviously didn't pay attention, because he clearly said thrillers can be smaller, personal stories, such as "To Build a Fire," by Jack London, or "Strangers on a Train," by Patricia Highsmith, in which the stakes are just one man's life (and he's not the President!). He also discusses psychological thrillers.
Also, he thinks heroes have to be unambiguously good but referenced the first two Daniel Craig Bond films? I think he missed the Themes of both of those movies.
Ah, this is fantastic
The Odyssey... a thriller? Ah... you know what, when Penelope used weaving as an excuse to not chose a suitor, that was rather thrilling. I mean, weaving!! And Mr. One Eyes "my Daddy's gonna get you 😠⛲" also very thrilling. Not boring at all. Thrilling. Thriller. So many thrills. Wow. 😂
Absolute Power by David Baldacci was a better read than the Eastwood film based on the novel.
I feel like this book might have been helpful if it had been titled 'How to write a Damn Good Paranoid Thriller' or 'How to Write a Damn Good Political Thriller'.
Ha. I get the same crap when I try to find out the basics of writing a Horror story. . Its how I learned about structure. I google Horror, and look for hints on Pinterest. (I happen to love reading craft books)
You need to apply some caveats here Ms. "take a classic story and translate it into a sci-fi YA book" - Frey published 9 thrillers, 9! You have published 2 derivative YA books. Maybe you didn't like the book, but I think you need to be less glib, less "salty" as you would put it.
The Day of the Jackal is a thriller by Frederick Forsyth, you are just showing your ignorance by talking about it only as a movie.
BTW, being a boomer or white or a man could form the basis of a critique, but these bio details are not blameworthy attributes in themselves. If you're saying he's out of date, then what relevance does his masculinity or race have to do with it?
What about I Am Pilgrim by Terry Hayes?? The Bourne series? The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo?
These fit the moral hero, impossible odds requirements of Frey
Also the plot behind the plot is a useful tool for writing.
Being harsh may be fun, but being fair is better.
Love the salt 😂
Somebody needs to write a fanfic of this craft book that basically delves into the 7 pillars of a thriller. Like there are kernels of good advice there as you've said but if it's hiding under a blanket of inept advice? Oh dear.
7 MUST-HAVE THRILLER BEATS FOR BONUS POINTS! (1) An animal is killed or tortured as a warning to the hero. Maybe it could be the hero's pet. (2) Chase sequence! It doesn't matter who. Just someone is being chased! (3) Villain kills some rando. Just to show how impulsively evil they are. It could even be their own henchman. Or their white cat! (4) At some point the hero walks into a dark place. Like, literally. Like, a cave. Or a bathroom with no bulb. It's called FORESHADOWING. (5) Villain is evil, sure. But later on, show that they're also SEXUALLY evil. That's a way to up the ante on evil. And then to up the ante on THAT - make the villain have sex all around them, but have them IGNORE it. Like it's nothing. That's even more evil. (6) For the ultimate mind-fuck, have a scene where the villain is like, at Walmart, buying toilet paper. And then have them have a nice interaction with someone, and then they leave. We keep expecting them to like, kill someone. But they don't. They're HUMANIZED for us. MINDFUCK. (7) Always have the hero be the villain's last victim. You set up the sequel because the hero's kid grows up to avenge their dead parent when the killings mysteriously start again 15 years later.
Ps. Alexa, I feel like you could do a fantastic job of writing a thriller craft book!
Also: “and happy not reading this book.” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Whenever I think thriller I think psychological.lol This sounds like not a good book and I’m so sorry you had to read it.
What about a master class?