BMC must've thought Joe Ehrlich had some good ideas, in 1953 (I think it was) they paid him £5000 in advance royalties for his engine work as an outside consultant...and he only had to work two days a week! He finished working for BMC in 1958, by which time a water cooled 2-stroke with fuel injection, fitted to an A35 gearbox was running in the prototype A20, which was a smaller, lightweight version of the A30/35. Ehrlich took the A20 with him, sadly it was scrapped in 1975. The A20 had covered several thousands of miles in testing, Ehrlich often using it to travel from Longbridge to London.
The Austin A20 was much like the A30 except it didnt have a conventional rear boot. In the place where the boot opening is usualy situated a spare wheel was mounted outside. Though it did have a boot space, accessed by folding the rear seats forward. Apparently the prototype had many faults, so perhaps that why they never continued with it. I wonder if Ehrichs was the only prototype and if any have survived?
Josef Ehrlich had turned up at Longbridge with designs for a complete micro car... BMC had a history of taking up ideas from inventors to keep them from the opposition, the Duncan Dragonfly being another example...This engine was tested in the prototype A30 Convertible that survives at Gaydon Museum, which explains the additional air vents fitted alongside the grill and on the wings... A water cooled version of the Ehrlich engine was installed in a prototype A20, which was basically a lightweight A30... That engine also survives at Gaydon...
With all the nonsense going on around the world if we could just make a pilgrimage to Ivan's Shed, tinker and fettle about for a day, I'm pretty sure we could solve all the world's problems. Now, with 8 billion or so of us, we'd need to make a little more room...maybe move some cars against the wall, sweep the place up a bit, shouldn't be that big of a problem...
I had the pleasure of meeting Dr Joe when his design concept of a variable compression engine was built by me (designed by prodrive) in the early 2000's . Also met Sir jack Brabham there too , who had investment in the project. Loads of great stuff in the workshop including one of those bicycles that had trick backwards steering. Lots of 2 stroke development stuff there too, I hope it still exists.
Wonderful to spend some time with you Ivan! Thank you, I remember my older brother telling me about prototype engines for the Minis. Being a lifetime Mini fan this is brilliant.
My late brothers in law who died in 2020 at 82 worked for Joe Erlich and emc when I first met him. He was called Ted Snook. Their works rider at that time was I believe Rex Butcher. Ted had been an aircraft apprentice at De Haviland and was a brilliant "natural" engineer ending his career as a Chassis engineer at Aston Martin. What a fascinating video. Thank you.
@@christianmccollum1028 Ivan is such a knowledgable person and his discussions are so interesting. Totally agree that you can listen to Ivan for hours. Hope he does a coulle of podcasts.. :)
Quite an interesting discussion. Sad the the man’s engineering endeavors and personal footnotes to automotive and motorcycling history were lost. It’s a damn shame!
My wife has already told me that upon my passing she's going to throw all my tools & bits into a "Everything's $1" bin and toss the rest. I'd better enjoy this now while I can. Mean old lady.
Thanks Ivan...really enjoy your channel...my first view of you was when you and John built the two cylinder engine stand...then you got it running...looking forward to seeing this one run...like your philosophy of selling everything, then spending all the money before you go...I hope that is in the distant future...you surely have quite a few laps left around the track....wm
You need to have more "special guest stars" on the show in the future.. nice interview and a good bit of motorcycle history. It's been a while since I last thought or heard the name "Mike the Bike"... an Isle of Man legend. Cheers,
In the November 3 2018 issue of RealClassic magazine, it was mentioned in an article about the EMC Prototype 500 that Joe Ehrlich was indeed of Jewish extraction and interestingly was also said to have developed a reed-valve 2-stroke powered unmanned flying bomb that was rejected by the Air Ministry for being contrary to the Geneva convention, six months prior to the Nazis launching their similar V-1.
Erm EMC. A friend had one. Yes great design.Serious quality issues. Shame. Apparently stuff like brake plates hubs ECT were poorly made. On top of that the engine seized on a regular basis.
Some story and bit of motor history. I learned to ride on what was a Puch machine, a 175cc sold by Sears & Roebuck in the U.S. It was a '54 model, very clean and was incentive to finally get my own motorcycle the next year ('57) though it wasn't an Allstate/Puch. IIRC, the brand was from the Styr-Daimler-Puch company. There were also 250cc models, one of which was an over-the-counter sports model called the "grand prix" - looks like some bits of this special engine came from it. Never saw one other than in advertisements.
I'd like to see more details about the porting... My old Puch (250 single/twingle) had the carb on one cylinder, and the exhaust on the other...Does that block split into a few pieces? Is the centre section the wrong way 'round? The carb being under the exhaust makes little sense..
Look inside the block. The crankcase end of the cylinder bores may be tapered to allow the piston rings to compress as the pistons are pushed into the bores. No ring compressor would be needed for assembly.
Just found your channel by chance brilliant will be subscribing are you by chance related to the Dutton family who ouned the nursery in Norwood lane iver heath ? now called flower land
Come on Ivan, get John to build expansion chambers to make this thing sing !!!.. Weld thin sheet steel in the right shape and blow them up with a pressure washer.. Easy peasy 👍
Never heard of the "Twingle split engine" before. Learnt something new today. This video looks to have the same head. ua-cam.com/video/18KLEnO9tTE/v-deo.html
What a knowledgeable chap, thanks for sharing the conversation with us Ivan. I've now realised, I've been pronouncing Puch wrong for over forty years. I've always said it as Puck not Pooch. I always learn something from your videos. Best wishes, Dean at Retromeccanica, Oxfordshire.
You still got it wrong and both of them, of course pronounce it wrong. The correct pronunciation is [pʊχ] . You can listen to it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puch
I remember the Puch split singles from my youth, they were still running around doing pharmacy deliveries up until the late 60's in Cape Town, as was a side valve Harley Davidson Trike who's spark plugs looked like they had welded themselves to the cylinder heads there was so much rust. Just love you channel Ivan, keep them coming.
Blimey. Tens of thousands of two stroke minis, all trying their best to start on a damp & frosty morning - with Lucas electrics? Forget the daily 'Dagenham Death Rattle', with these things finally fired up, the Channel would clog with blue smoke & leave the French to assume they were now parked across from some manic steel band contest. We were so lucky : )
The two stroke engine experiment pre dates the Mini. It was intended for a smaller version of the Austin A30, to be known as the A20. By the time Joe Ehrlich finished at BMC in 1958 there was a prototype running, Ehrlich took it with him, which was eventually scrapped in 1975. The 2 cylinder A series was intended for the Mini, but was not considered satisfactory, which why we ended up with the A series/gearbox in sump idea...and the rest is history, and pretty good too.
Your guest seems to think that Ehrlich being an Austrian was a defence against anti-German sentiments at the time. Well you should know that Hitler himself was an Austrian, and not a German!
I truly love these videos. Even when you don't accomplish anything the discussions are educational and historic. I personally know very little about Norton, Enfield and several other British manufacturers and would like to learn much more. Also, Morgans have been little if not a novelty over here in the U.S. but the Brits seem to love them. Didn't they use twins on the three wheelers?
In 1980 I visited Ehrlich Engineering to use a large lathe and saw a three cylinder version of the Triumph Dolomite Sprint 4 valves per cylinder engine which they had developed for BL. Hanging on my workshop wall today is the three cylinder Sprint head gasket, complete with BL part number!
I'm sure I have a book somewhere that has a similar DKW? split single two stroke motor pictured in it. I can't wait to see how this engine works out...
maybe explain how the split single works - I went and looked it up and its pretty smart, single combustion chamber shared by 2 pistons running slight out of sync on the same crank. Puch used it until 1970.
So glad your still with us terribly rude of someone to just cut us off from all you have too share . Men in sheds are priceless and must be allowed to educate us .
Thanks for the history lesson. It's a shame all the engineering drawings and such were thrown out. Thank goodness this engine was saved. I can't wait to hear it run.
An A30 would make more sense as this engine was tested in the prototype A30 Convertible that survives at Gaydon Museum, which explains the additional air vents fitted alongside the grill and on the wings... A water cooled version of the Ehrlich engine was installed in a prototype A30, which was basically a lightweight A30... That engine also survives at Gaydon...
My dad who was mad keen on Morris minors said he thought the engine bay was designed for a flat four but they decided to use the A series as they were already in production, any thoughts on this?
Alec Issigonis intended to use a flat four in the Minor, they had a lot of trouble to get it smooth and reliable and, with time slipping away it was decided to use the 918cc side valve engine from the Series E. The A series was put into the Minor after the merger of Austin and Morris. Morris had developed an OHV version of the 918 engine for use in a Wolseley, but had hardly got the OHV Minor running when the merger happened. It made production sense to use the A series, but the Austin gearbox was woeful in the Minor as the ratios didn't suit it at all. Thus the Minor series 2 was born, and the best thing about that was that finally it became the Minor 1000.
If he was my uncle or family of any sort at all I wouldn't be able to bring myself to sell a single item what he has collected and brought together under that one roof is nothing less than incredible. It is upsetting to see a collection like this be parted out because the family doesn't feel any sort of connection to it if it were me you would have a very hard time pulling me out of there . It would be my absolute favorite place to be. I don't know how people bring themselves to do away with something that someone has put so much time effort , effort , emotion and themselves into it's very sad really what if the next person doesn't love it and care for it ? I know it belongs to them now but still it would bother me deeply.
BMC must've thought Joe Ehrlich had some good ideas, in 1953 (I think it was) they paid him £5000 in advance royalties for his engine work as an outside consultant...and he only had to work two days a week! He finished working for BMC in 1958, by which time a water cooled 2-stroke with fuel injection, fitted to an A35 gearbox was running in the prototype A20, which was a smaller, lightweight version of the A30/35. Ehrlich took the A20 with him, sadly it was scrapped in 1975. The A20 had covered several thousands of miles in testing, Ehrlich often using it to travel from Longbridge to London.
The Austin A20 was much like the A30 except it didnt have a conventional rear boot. In the place where the boot opening is usualy situated a spare wheel was mounted outside. Though it did have a boot space, accessed by folding the rear seats forward. Apparently the prototype had many faults, so perhaps that why they never continued with it.
I wonder if Ehrichs was the only prototype and if any have survived?
That was a very precious eight and a half minutes by anyone's standards. Does Arthur have a channel?
Josef Ehrlich had turned up at Longbridge with designs for a complete micro car... BMC had a history of taking up ideas from inventors to keep them from the opposition, the Duncan Dragonfly being another example...This engine was tested in the prototype A30 Convertible that survives at Gaydon Museum, which explains the additional air vents fitted alongside the grill and on the wings... A water cooled version of the Ehrlich engine was installed in a prototype A20, which was basically a lightweight A30... That engine also survives at Gaydon...
With all the nonsense going on around the world if we could just make a pilgrimage to Ivan's Shed, tinker and fettle about for a day, I'm pretty sure we could solve all the world's problems. Now, with 8 billion or so of us, we'd need to make a little more room...maybe move some cars against the wall, sweep the place up a bit, shouldn't be that big of a problem...
I agree. The only truly sane people I know are in the various vintage and one make clubs.
I had the pleasure of meeting Dr Joe when his design concept of a variable compression engine was built by me (designed by prodrive) in the early 2000's . Also met Sir jack Brabham there too , who had investment in the project. Loads of great stuff in the workshop including one of those bicycles that had trick backwards steering. Lots of 2 stroke development stuff there too, I hope it still exists.
Look forward to you getting it running! Great stuff Ivan. Love the engineering history lessons 👌
A Sunday with Ivan! Thank you for everything and your knowledge that you bring to us all.
Wonderful to spend some time with you Ivan! Thank you,
I remember my older brother telling me about prototype engines for the Minis.
Being a lifetime Mini fan this is brilliant.
My late brothers in law who died in 2020 at 82 worked for Joe Erlich and emc when I first met him. He was called Ted Snook. Their works rider at that time was I believe Rex Butcher. Ted had been an aircraft apprentice at De Haviland and was a brilliant "natural" engineer ending his career as a Chassis engineer at Aston Martin. What a fascinating video. Thank you.
Most garage fun on UA-cam. Great one again Ivan.
History saved again thanks to Ivan, John, cameraguy and their mates.
Incredible channel. So glad I found these chaps. Could listen to Ivan go on about his machines all day. 👍
@@christianmccollum1028 Ivan is such a knowledgable person and his discussions are so interesting. Totally agree that you can listen to Ivan for hours. Hope he does a coulle of podcasts.. :)
Quite an interesting discussion. Sad the the man’s engineering endeavors and personal footnotes to automotive and motorcycling history were lost. It’s a damn shame!
All that history thrown in the skip, what a great shame,
Wonderful! Particularly the idea of selling it all and enjoying it before you die! - Love it!
My wife has already told me that upon my passing she's going to throw all my tools & bits into a "Everything's $1" bin and toss the rest. I'd better enjoy this now while I can. Mean old lady.
Thanks Ivan...really enjoy your channel...my first view of you was when you and John built the two cylinder engine stand...then you got it running...looking forward to seeing this one run...like your philosophy of selling everything, then spending all the money before you go...I hope that is in the distant future...you surely have quite a few laps left around the track....wm
You need to have more "special guest stars" on the show in the future.. nice interview and a good bit of motorcycle history.
It's been a while since I last thought or heard the name "Mike the Bike"... an Isle of Man legend.
Cheers,
It's pronounced "pook"
I reckon building another engine display stand wouldn't tax your fabrication skills all that much.
In the November 3 2018 issue of RealClassic magazine, it was mentioned in an article about the EMC Prototype 500 that Joe Ehrlich was indeed of Jewish extraction and interestingly was also said to have developed a reed-valve 2-stroke powered unmanned flying bomb that was rejected by the Air Ministry for being contrary to the Geneva convention, six months prior to the Nazis launching their similar V-1.
Erm EMC. A friend had one. Yes great design.Serious quality issues.
Shame. Apparently stuff like brake plates hubs ECT were poorly made.
On top of that the engine seized on
a regular basis.
So far I haven't seen any dogs in these videos.
btw. the German manufacturer's name rhymes with "book".
Some story and bit of motor history. I learned to ride on what was a Puch machine, a 175cc sold by Sears & Roebuck in the U.S. It was a '54 model, very clean and was incentive to finally get my own motorcycle the next year ('57) though it wasn't an Allstate/Puch. IIRC, the brand was from the Styr-Daimler-Puch company. There were also 250cc models, one of which was an over-the-counter sports model called the "grand prix" - looks like some bits of this special engine came from it. Never saw one other than in advertisements.
I'd like to see more details about the porting... My old Puch (250 single/twingle) had the carb on one cylinder, and the exhaust on the other...Does that block split into a few pieces? Is the centre section the wrong way 'round? The carb being under the exhaust makes little sense..
When you said you were going to sell everything and spend the money, that bald fellow in the background gave you sidelong glance.
Look inside the block. The crankcase end of the cylinder bores may be tapered to allow the piston rings to compress as the pistons are pushed into the bores. No ring compressor would be needed for assembly.
Just found your channel by chance brilliant will be subscribing are you by chance related to the Dutton family who ouned the nursery in Norwood lane iver heath ? now called flower land
You always teach me something Ivan!
Come on Ivan, get John to build expansion chambers to make this thing sing !!!.. Weld thin sheet steel in the right shape and blow them up with a pressure washer.. Easy peasy 👍
I see that's an air cooled engine, wont you need duct work around it to ensure proper cooling.
i can say but one thing 'WOW' , and thank you
What sort of cooling fan are you planning to use?
Hitler was also an Austrian who liked champagne, as it happens...
He didn't build interesting two strokes though......
@@fernacticus That is a fascinating engine. Must research how it worked. When I was a lad Puchs were everywhere. Teen tiny mopeds, though...
nice pice of history, thanks.
What an intriguing engine. Do you have a secret plan to put it in some sort of chassis? That would be an interesting thing. Love your channel.
Never heard of the "Twingle split engine" before. Learnt something new today. This video looks to have the same head. ua-cam.com/video/18KLEnO9tTE/v-deo.html
Thanks for the great history lesson . It's amazing what is worked on and then forgotten 👍
10/10 to both gentlemen in their knowledge. Also my utmost thanks for everyones effort in all this work , awesome!
What a knowledgeable chap, thanks for sharing the conversation with us Ivan. I've now realised, I've been pronouncing Puch wrong for over forty years. I've always said it as Puck not Pooch. I always learn something from your videos.
Best wishes, Dean at Retromeccanica, Oxfordshire.
You still got it wrong and both of them, of course pronounce it wrong. The correct pronunciation is [pʊχ] . You can listen to it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puch
My Puch 250 was 45mm bore x78mm stroke with dual spark plugs.
Brilliant stuff. Thanks for bringing to light a forgotten and overlooked designer.
I remember the Puch split singles from my youth, they were still running around doing pharmacy deliveries up until the late 60's in Cape Town, as was a side valve Harley Davidson Trike who's spark plugs looked like they had welded themselves to the cylinder heads there was so much rust.
Just love you channel Ivan, keep them coming.
what a nice bloke is ivan
Blimey. Tens of thousands of two stroke minis, all trying their best to start on a damp & frosty morning - with Lucas electrics? Forget the daily 'Dagenham Death Rattle', with these things finally fired up, the Channel would clog with blue smoke & leave the French to assume they were now parked across from some manic steel band contest. We were so lucky : )
The two stroke engine experiment pre dates the Mini. It was intended for a smaller version of the Austin A30, to be known as the A20. By the time Joe Ehrlich finished at BMC in 1958 there was a prototype running, Ehrlich took it with him, which was eventually scrapped in 1975. The 2 cylinder A series was intended for the Mini, but was not considered satisfactory, which why we ended up with the A series/gearbox in sump idea...and the rest is history, and pretty good too.
It deserves it's own trolley
Wonderful ❤️👍
Another fabulous episode!
Your guest seems to think that Ehrlich being an Austrian was a defence against anti-German sentiments at the time. Well you should know that Hitler himself was an Austrian, and not a German!
I truly love these videos. Even when you don't accomplish anything the discussions are educational and historic. I personally know very little about Norton, Enfield and several other British manufacturers and would like to learn much more. Also, Morgans have been little if not a novelty over here in the U.S. but the Brits seem to love them. Didn't they use twins on the three wheelers?
superb stuff!
Fanbloodytastic history lesson thanks Ivan 👍👨🏻🏭
Fascinating story, really enjoying these videos 👍🏻
Very interesting !
Very interesting, will be great to see the engine run
In 1980 I visited Ehrlich Engineering to use a large lathe and saw a three cylinder version of the Triumph Dolomite Sprint 4 valves per cylinder engine which they had developed for BL. Hanging on my workshop wall today is the three cylinder Sprint head gasket, complete with BL part number!
I'm sure I have a book somewhere that has a similar DKW? split single two stroke motor pictured in it. I can't wait to see how this engine works out...
TWN of Germany built an inline 197cc split single, very advanced design for the year.
love the channel Ivan. Keep 'em coming !! 👍👍
Thank you again Ivan and great job Arthur - Regards
Wonderfully interesting
I read a book about two young men who rode a split single,motorcycle around the world. But I can’t remember the name of it.
there is no tsj in puch..., carry on !
maybe explain how the split single works - I went and looked it up and its pretty smart, single combustion chamber shared by 2 pistons running slight out of sync on the same crank. Puch used it until 1970.
Will piston rings from a puch 250 fit he used the heads maybe the pistons as well. All the best peter
So glad your still with us terribly rude of someone to just cut us off from all you have too share . Men in sheds are priceless and must be allowed to educate us .
Thanks for the history lesson. It's a shame all the engineering drawings and such were thrown out. Thank goodness this engine was saved. I can't wait to hear it run.
Split single/Twingle very old design to help scavenging, really interesting engine 👌🏻😎
2 strokes and BMC history, 2 of my favorite subjects
A real sharer of information and inspiration! Only Bad Chad comes close.
Super video Ivan as usual. Cheers from OZ
Gotta get that engine in an original old mini, I reckon it will go like stink!
An A30 would make more sense as this engine was tested in the prototype A30 Convertible that survives at Gaydon Museum, which explains the additional air vents fitted alongside the grill and on the wings... A water cooled version of the Ehrlich engine was installed in a prototype A30, which was basically a lightweight A30... That engine also survives at Gaydon...
Keep it up great content
Great
My dad who was mad keen on Morris minors said he thought the engine bay was designed for a flat four but they decided to use the A series as they were already in production, any thoughts on this?
Alec Issigonis intended to use a flat four in the Minor, they had a lot of trouble to get it smooth and reliable and, with time slipping away it was decided to use the 918cc side valve engine from the Series E. The A series was put into the Minor after the merger of Austin and Morris. Morris had developed an OHV version of the 918 engine for use in a Wolseley, but had hardly got the OHV Minor running when the merger happened. It made production sense to use the A series, but the Austin gearbox was woeful in the Minor as the ratios didn't suit it at all. Thus the Minor series 2 was born, and the best thing about that was that finally it became the Minor 1000.
If he was my uncle or family of any sort at all I wouldn't be able to bring myself to sell a single item what he has collected and brought together under that one roof is nothing less than incredible. It is upsetting to see a collection like this be parted out because the family doesn't feel any sort of connection to it if it were me you would have a very hard time pulling me out of there . It would be my absolute favorite place to be. I don't know how people bring themselves to do away with something that someone has put so much time effort , effort , emotion and themselves into it's very sad really what if the next person doesn't love it and care for it ? I know it belongs to them now but still it would bother me deeply.