Stop Blaming Vatican II
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The Church today is not what it was 75 years ago. Many have tried to come up with answers why, but the most common day is a simple one: it's Vatican II's fault. Although convenient, I believe that this answer makes no sense at all. The Church DOES has some serious problems, but wasting time fighting about a council most have never heard of is not going to get us anywhere.
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“Stop Blaming Vatican II ?”. No, you stop trying to rescue Vatican II, please.
Religion is stupid.
Vatican II doesn’t need saving. Its a perfectly fine Catholic ecumenical council
@@christopherjohnson9167 Ha ha, this is hilarious! Vatican II is beyond saving, fixing or salvaging. It's a perfectly broken, un-catholic council. You're in complete denial.
@@yagi3925I would really like to understand what your reasons for this opinion are.
“Napoleon Bonaparte once taunted a Catholic cardinal by threatening: “Your Eminence, are you not aware that I have the power to destroy the Catholic Church?” To which the cardinal quipped: “Your Majesty, we Catholic clergy have done our best to destroy the Church for the last eighteen hundred years. We have not succeeded, and neither will you.”
Damn this is good bro
@@user-lr6hw4dq4t - I hope this is not unduly harsh, but I think honest, direct feedback to this video (and others by this priest) is in order, and I'd prefer to do it under your comment, where I feel I am at least in my arena. if that is OK. . With all due respect for his priesthood.this priest is NOT qualified to condescend and pontificate to the masses the way he does, presuming to be an authority on the broader issue. . V2 staved off a complete collapse?? Ridiculous Blame Game.? I'm getting way more Justin Trudeau vibes than those of a devout , sincere, authentic priest. Tidy argument wrapped in platitudes and barbs, is very limited in content and scope, and sophomoric at best (in the overly confident, limited content way)., His hubris is off the charts and really hard to believe, even in this day and age. My reply is devoid of content about v2, but that its bc I know better than to try to even attempt it with such brevity as is necessary here. Presents as the polar opposite of my Trad pastor of the same age, yet my pastor seems decades older in knowledge, humility and wisdom.
@@finallythere100 Well said.
“Here, a disconcerting picture opens up before our eyes, that of religions, the religions invented by man; attempts that are sometimes extremely daring and noble …”
- Paul VI, General Audience, Jan. 12, 1972
“... that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy … Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion, they reject it …”
- Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, No. 2, Jan. 6, 1928
Nice✊👌🔥
I am a convert and have been Catholic for almost 30 years now. All I knew about Catholicism I gleaned from films made before Vatican II. But, I came into the church with the priest facing us, praying the Mass in English, accepting communion in the palm and lay ministers at the altar and altar girls. I do attend a Latin Mass because I like the quiet, meditative, smaller attendance. We say the Rosary and have the Litany of the Saints after. I like both the Latin Mass and the Vernacular Mass, so it doesn't trouble me if I have to attend the ordinary English Mass. I think the only thing I am a bit more traditional about is my Marian devotion because I have a special love for Our Mother. But I don't think my religious faith suffers and my closeness with Christ is as close as ever. I appreciate the opportunity to just go to Mass, whether it is a Latin Mass or an English Mass. Okay, so the Latin Mass is more elegant and in many ways more....thoughtful, contemplative, but the English Mass works just as well.
I like English Masses myself because I want to understand what is being said. I would love to attend a Latin Mass, but I want to understand, especially as a person who is just learning the Order of the Mass.
@@tiffanyvoss3966 I recommend if you are new to the church you go to the English Mass...or the Mass of one's language....then visit a Latin Mass with a missal in both English and Latin, so you can follow.
@@tiffanyvoss3966 You sound like you may be new to the Faith so I don't want to sound sarcastic, but have you ever heard of a missal? A missal is a printed book containing all of the liturgy for every day of the year. There are Novus Ordo missals and there are Tridentine missals. The Tridentine one will have both the Latin and the English translation printed side by side so that you can understand what's being said. That is what people used before Vatican II. It's not as if everyone knew Latin back then. Latin missals are available through Traditionalist sites or you can find used ones on Ebay and so on. Get one and see if that doesn't improve your experience.
Jim Newland I wouldn’t even know where to find a Latin Mass in my area.
I am actually very new to the Faith, attending RCIA now, granted it will be 1-2 years before I can do my Sacraments. I have been going to Mass for about 3 months, missed one Sunday due to a family emergency.
@@tiffanyvoss3966 please do not get carrier away in the discussion over language and faith. It is better to understand the mass then to just hear it in a language foreign to one. I am a native Konkani speaker in India, but i prefer to hear mass in English as thats the language of my education.
I hear the Pope's mass once in a while, but with full translation on as i do not want to miss any part of the mass.
Young catholic here...I was born and raised in a place (south America) where the second council led the local parishes to do the craziest stuff during masses- including mixing camdoble chanting during liturgy??- I never went to mass for the love of God or church. I went because my parents made me go. When I went to my first traditional LATIN mass I cried, because in many years I felt welcomed and at peace in a Church .I could not believe how low and distorted things could get because of people trying to adjust mass to our conveniences. I blame the vatican council 2 and modernism for my lukewarmness and my ignorance. No more novus ordo for me.
Me too
Me too. I first time attend to Tridentine Mass in 2012 when I was 16 years old, and I never want to return to New Mass. I read many books and articles about crisis in the Church and Novus Ordo is huge reason of losing the faith.
YE RESPECT THE TRUE TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC CHURCH FROM JESUS CHRISTTO NOW ! YE ARE A SPIRITUAL BREATH OF AIR H K !!! MORE LIKE YE THIS WOURLD WOULD COME BACK HOME TO THETRUE CHURCH , AND LEAVE EVIL VATECAN II BEHIND THEM ! AMEN & AMEN ! PLEASE REQUEST ME AS SPIRITUAL FRIEND ! A GOOD GODLY HEART YE HAVE :) ++++++
Imagine this: Ordinary Form Latin Mass.
Amen on that!
"Church is not what it was 75 years ago" - yes, that's the f---ing problem! Stop changing things that are supposed to be eternal!
Amen! I grew up without faith, encountered God at age 40 and progressed over the next 20 years from God to Christ to a random selection of Protestant churches...and finally...to the Catholic church. My worship and praise of God is amplified by my ability to understand the Mass. Thankfully, for those who miss the Latin Mass, it is available in our area. No matter the vernacular...Christ is one...one Holy and apostolic Catholic Church. Had the church enforced Latin for Mass, I would still be a struggling protestant looking for the fullest expression of my faith but unable to connect with Catholicism.
“Our world even today experiences his great impact on history.”
- John Paul II, talking about Martin Luther, Oct. 31, 1983
“But later even more care was required when the Lutherans and Calvinists dared to oppose the changeless doctrine of the faith with an almost incredible variety of errors. They left no means untried to deceive the faithful with perverse explanations of the sacred books …”
- Pope Gregory XVI, Inter Praecipuas, May 8, 1844
Those quotes doesn't contradict with themselves.
I also am thankful to understand mass in our own language but vatican 2 did more than just allow for mass in other languages... thats the issue and as catholics we should stand up for the holy church of Jesus christ and call our heresy especially when it's coming from within .. we need to understand and be prepared for the attacks of Satan because he will obviously want to destroy the one true church ..i truly see the book of revelation unfolding before our eyes ..in the last days there will be a one world religion and from what pope Francis has said recently and even not so recently seems like he's ushering it in ... didn't God warn his people not to mix with false religions and we are doing the same thing isreal done .. we need to stand up for the truth we need to stand up for the church and our Lord Jesus Christ
I agree with your arguments, Father. But we should point out that this Latin Mass ‘frenesi’ maybe is a response to the terribly driven celebrations of the new ordinary rite, where - unfortunately- many priests act pretty much as cheerleaders, backed up by terrible music service with drums and musicians acting like rockstars-to-be. It is said that the sense of sacredness was so usually offended that many pious people came to the conclusion (to which I don’t endorse) that the mass was progressively transformed into a Protestant-like cult. I don’t see things that way, but I understand what many people feel: when they come to see a Latin Mass, they don’t find clapping hands or choreography, but all aesthetics directed to what is sacred and Holy.
To that I would say that *BEAUTY* is the only thing that can save the world from the profanities and the spirit of desacralization.
If you see how the mass is celebrated in Church buildings that look like an auditorium or a sports gymnasium or anything built to the new architectural concepts, poorly decorated with pious catholic iconography (both statuary and paintings of the angels, saints, Our Lord Jesus and any passage of the Scriptures), and then see how beautifully the new ordinary rite is usually celebrated in a very beautiful church building that resembles the Catholic piety in all its dimension and glory, it becomes clear that Novus Ordo masses in beautiful churches are undoubtedly much more solemn and surrounded in mystery and thus pointed toward sacredness than in ugly buildings or installments. So BEAUTY matters - like Roger Scruton says -, and it matters even to the point of saving our faith, preserving its sense and its core spirituality.
P.S: I try to attend only to Mass in Church buildings that look like beautiful church’s with “church atmosphere”, even if it is the new ordinary rite, which I prefer to attend to on regular basis (I don’t appreciate this irrational traditionalism that represents all things in Latin to be beautiful and all things in vernacular language to be profane) because of the tendency of having beautiful liturgy and respectful celebration in a graceful place filled with sacred and inspiring art.
Come to Spain! We have tons of very old cathedrals and churches 😎
Robert Baraecus Wow, I was there for 30 days in Salamanca this January prior to the pandemic scenarium. When I left Spain things then started to be bad. Lucky me, I would say. Well, I appreciate what you say: Spain is a fantastic country with astonishing beautiful constructions. During my time there I attended to Mass in Saint Esteban Church (el convento dominico de San Esteban), in “Plaza del Concilio de Trento”. How about the statue “To Francisco de Vitoria, the city of Salamanca”?! What a genius he was! Besides, that Dominican’s church is one of the most beautiful my eyes have ever seen.
I am Brazilian, my friend, and I was there to study criminal law in the 800 years-old University of Salamanca! Thanks for posting it.
Greetings from Brazil.
@@masterchief8179 hahaha niceee. I am from the province located in the north of Salamanca XDD. For me a 800 years romanic building is pretty normal.
Robert Baraecus 😀😀😀 One of the most fantastic experiences of my time there was to visit (besides Salamanca) Ávila, Alba de Tormes, Segóvia and many places that Saint Teresa of Ávila, Saint John of the Cross and other religious of the Carmelites order lived and did their missionary job.
@@masterchief8179 I am reading Santa Teresa de Jesús right now. I can tell you that the personality of Castilians hasn't changed in 500 years, we are the same people, so now you can imagine how were Santa Teresa and San Juan de la Cruz!
As some have commented, I too see the “healthiest” parishes tend to be the most likely to hold to liturgical tradition. Now that could just be my experience, but I do travel to a fair variety of parishes in the two diocese in my area and have “seen it all” so to speak. I’ve heard, correct me if I’m wrong, that the FSSP is having a major boom in vocations as well. I say look where a church is able to retain its youth, and raise many more. In my experience those are rarely those 1970’s parishes. In fact, I’ve seen plenty of young adults (early to mid 20’s) attending parishes that have more traditional Liturgical expressions and architecture than those designed in the decade or two after Vatican II. Now I’m not saying Vatican II itself is to blame, nor am I saying a novus ordo Mass somehow can’t be celebrated reverently, but for a council called specifically to address “the times”, it certainly missed the mark if I were to be so honest. If anything, the implementation of the council led to plenty of changes never called for by the actual council herself. Now I suppose you could say this just proves that it wasn’t the ACTUAL council’s fault, and that we are on par in decline with Protestant denominations as alluded to in this video. However, the council certainly was the gate that “opened the Church to the world” loosely quoting council fathers. Sadly, I believe that gate also unintentionally brought worldliness itself into the Church. A secularization so to speak.
So does blame rest squarely on the documents of the council? I suppose not. But was the interpretation of the council from clergy and laity alike a catalyst for other changes and revisions to take place BEYOND that of the council? Most certainly as can be seen by walking into many parishes today and simply looking around.
Let’s not get lost on the path of semantics as this video tends toward. We don’t need to ardently attack or defend the council, but we should be able to open our eyes and see that the affects of the decades after have led to a Church very distant from it’s pre-1960’s self. I’m not going to pretend the council is squarely to blame, but I’m also not going to pretend it is somehow completely unrelated. I think both those views are extreme and inaccurate.
Thank You!
You just said what I said, but more eloquently.
While you are very correct about the good fruits from FSSP, Our Lord said "you cannot be a servant of two masters" you cannot be right and wrong at the same time. Either we call it out as it is, and say "the council is responsible for this mess" or "no they are not responsible for this mess" we cannot be on both sides of the fence and say "it is their fault but it isnt" at the same time.
Well said. I agree. Complex issue. I would put more blame on the "errors of Russia" that Our Lady of Fatima warned about and, to be honest, the gradual destruction of Western Christendom since the Protestant Reformation as being the cause of all these worldly turmoils that the Church was forced to deal with. That being said, I'd love to see a return of our Catholic traditions. The Latin Mass is amazing and so rich. Isn't "intense" faith, love, and hope, the faith we should be striving to have?
Bravo and Amen! 👏🙏
Isn’t what happened to the church in the last hundred years a prophecy of Our Lady of Good Success? Thank you in the meantime.😇🙏
With respect, Father, I was alive and a seriously practicing Catholic in 1955 and can credibly say that VAT2 was, is, and always will be the cause of our present spiritual malaise. But as Groucho Marx would say: "Who you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"
I'm 75 and used to serve daily Latin Mass in 1955. Vatican II had some great ideas but once the leftists took over the Church-BOOM!-today's problem.
I think the problem is that the ones saying "don't blame V2/popes" actually aren't capable of believing their own eyes because they lack the perspective to see the totality of the changes and the organized deliberateness of the crisis. It's naive trustingness in exactly the same spirit as the people who can't see the organized deliberateness behind the current global medical and financial crises. The father in this video talks about all the different social and political revolutions that occurred in the 60s as of they were all natural, organic, and not what they actually were, a consequence of the good guys losing WWII to judeo-bolshevism and a mystery Babylon takeover of the true church. They would rather deny reality and avoid puting 2 and 2 together because it's just too big and scary for them to accept.
@@catholiccrusader5328 God Bless You. Gloria Patri May you have a Happy,holy and friendly 2023
It didn't cause it, but it didn't stop it. Once you change foundational practices, people are logical and ask "well why can't I convene my own personal Vatican 3"?
Are you a priest to say, what the catholics shall do?
Thank you for putting into words what I believe about Vatican II.
I am of the few lifelong, practicing Catholics who actually lived in the time of the Latin Mass. If you think people were “ holier “ back then, I would say to you - human nature has not changed. There were things that were not wonderful and there were unkind Catholics.
Nothing seemed to change for me. If you were a devout and practicing Catholic before Vatican II, then it should not have changed your usual practice.
I was so happy to hear the Mass in English - I thought it was lovely. So wonderful to know what we were saying and hearing.
The preaching, as far as I remember, was usually hit and miss. Then and now. Some priests are great preachers; some not at all.
But now we can go online to hear excellent preaching from Bishops, other priests. 🙏✝️
And people sinned, had abortions, practiced birth control, abused youngsters, covered it up, fooled around, got drunk waged war dropped atomic bombs on civilians……..
This was a great commentary, Father. I think people who go to latin mass these days, when they talk about great reverence and superiority of it, overlook the point that they are part of a very niche community in which all members are very devoted and make an effort to go to this particular rite, thus making it a very special experience. maybe if they were transported back in time when this kind of rite was usual and attended by much more diverse kind of Catholics, they would see a different picture. the attendance of the mas before vatican 2 doesn't necessarily reflect actual belief, but also much stronger pressure from family and society to fit into their beliefs and customs. also, it seems to me that a lot of these critics of the council overlook the fact that they are seeing problems from american/western point of view, and that the events post council might reflect more the culture and society of their countries, and that the situation might be different in other parts of the world, and they do not speak for the whole church. it's the same for the criticism of the Pope. He comes from very different part of the world and to him the most important issues might not look the same as to the average american.
Yes!! I have talked to a lot of people about mass pre VII and most of them just went because they had to, but they used that time to make a grocery shopping list or anything else, because they didn't understand but knew they had to go. It is not that easy.
Agree. I think people can't handle progress in the Church at large, or the fact that the Holy Roman Catholic Church wants to merge the old and the new. Don't blame the Papa, don't be a doomsday prophet, and don't blame the Democrats. We aren't all evil pro-abortion voters. God bless you, Father. Good points, on this post....
@@dawnlapka2433 a Democratic vote IS a pro abortion vote, tho. Fact.
Dawn Lapka Progress towards destruction is regression from salvation.
I enjoyed your comment. I feel that those who go to Latin mass want to stand out, have their own religious language, cermony and feasts...in a sense Jewish lol. But se must remember that God is not a feeling, he is always there, even when we can't feel him.
Both types of mass should be allowed.
every church should offer both
It's true that Vatican II is not the problem, the problem is the excesses that occurred because of it. An extreme relaxation of the liturgical norms, an extreme secularization and a loss of solemnity are just some of the factors. And if we add to these factors a very poor education on all of these issues, we have a recipe for disaster that yields exactly what we have seen in the last decades. I believe that the fact that traditional communities are been fueled mostly by young people should tell us a lot about where the solution is.
Fr. Casey, it was my mom who instilled the faith in me. Now, I'm raising my kids in the faith. "Learn the lessons of scripture, cause when you break the rules...you'll know." Seriously, I want them to know that in Christ there is Salvation...now pack your bags. (You said that) My life is grounded in faith each and everyday...Trying to share the church and make it more meaningful for them. Peace be with you.🙏✝️
A well crafted piece.
I think Father Casey and Dr. Taylor Marshall should have a youtube dialogue does anyone else agree? Thank you Father Casey for all your wisdom.
nope only you ...
Jrwid....:
I am in agreement with you!
Father Casey's audience needs another viewpoint, but I'm not holding my breath.
I am waiting for “Vatican III- Return to Trent”
Dipsey I just found out vat 1 was never closed,so vat2 ?? Well Fr Pope Paul V1 laid down his papal tiara to the UN, the priest who helped change it from Latin to English publically apologised for his part in it, 6 protestant ministers helped change it.
Marie Miller Annibali Bugnini openly stated we must remove any obstacles four our Protestant brethren. Pope Benedict even said of Vatican II that is was the French Revolution in the church
Favorite comment award!!
Vatican III: Trent strikes back
@@theoriginaljohn ...which brings up the question of prequels and renumbering...
Latin Mass is too modern for me. I prefer the Koine Greek rite.
Is this Rite using Aramaic like Christ used in the first Mass?
Byzantines still do that today.
Paul Benedict The Chaldean Church, in union with Rome, worships in Aramaic.
Peter and Paul most likely celebrated the Eucarist is Greek when they got to Rome. The roman liturgy evolved more during the 3rd century.
LOL As the Roman Rite contains the Kyrie - and, by rights, the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed may be sung in Greek (thus minus the Filioque .. though in full accord with its proper meaning). God bless.
Thank God for you! Like St. John Paul ll tought us Faith and Reason are 2 wings that go together!
Fr. Casey OFM,
That is an excellent analysis. I’ve had similar thoughts when Catholics, even priests lament the downturn in the church by blaming Vatican II. It’s a false argument for the reasons you stated so well. I remind them that the percentage of votes in favor of every single Vatican II document was in the high 90s. Whereas at Vatican I, papal infallibility, a substantial dogma of our Church, was voted in favor by only 75% of the bishops. Thank you for your excellent work.
BTW, we were holding a blood drive at my church and the nurse checking me in at the bloodmobile was an atheist. He said that he was very impressed with your videos and articulation of the faith, “A worthy opponent“ he said with a friendly smile. He asked if I’d heard of you. I told him I was familiar with your work and that you do speak very well for our faith. He and I had a very pleasant conversation. He was great about respectful dialogue. I just thought you would like to know that you have fans in a lot of circles. Keep up the good work!
Famous historian Eric Hobsbawm had already pointed out in the 60's in his famous book "the era or revolution: 1789-1848", that catholicism and most protestant denominations had been in decline pretty much since the 18th century, and the decline persisted even more during the 19th century
I love Latin Mass. It's so refreshing and I'm able to focus more. I don't understand why so few parishes offer Latin Mass.
I am 61 years old. Please let me understand fully. Without hesitation all that is spoken, prayed, and worshipped in the Mass. It may sound more Pious. But, Jesus, and the apostles did not speak latin. The Mass, and the scriptures were translated into Latin. I want to be able to focus on my absorbing liturgy. Not trying to figure out what was just said. 🙏🙏
Hello Fr.! I am from Asia and Vatican II has certainly been fruitful here! 😇😇😇 God bless your works! 😍
I know quite a few people who dislike the vatican ii but ive never heard any of them blame the council on those things you mentioned...
Fr. Casey, would you please do a video on the official teaching of Lumen Gentium art. 16? It seems to be a stumbling block for many and there are a lot of interpretations floating around. I would appreciate the official explanation of this passage, as I'm sure many would! Thank you for all the great work you've done so far!
To be honest, my Church History is very generalized with the exceptions of some particular time periods / subject matter. For me, I tended towards the era of the Early Church, in particular the writings of some of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, so going from the ancient Church to the current era has loads of perceived inconsistencies (whether wrong or right I cannot say). I haven't done much research on Vatican II so I can't comment entirely on it; most of what I've gotten is hearsay, so yes, reading official documents is the way to go. With that said, I grew up with the Novus Ordo, was bored out of my mind, left and only in my mid-twenties decided to give the faith of my fathers a fair shake. I went to the Novus Ordo and it was kind of like what I remembered. Then I gave this thing called a "Traditional Latin Mass" a try and was completely blown away. When I traveled for work and had the opportunity I visited some of the other rites like the Melkites, Ukrainians, and Maronites and loved their liturgies as well. This is not to suggest that Novus Ordo is terrible, but it really depends on how it's conducted. The basic format isn't an issue, so much as it's an execution on parish by parish basis and may be more symptomatic of certain cultural problems here in the West. The TLM and to some extent, Eastern rites typically attract the more conservative and forgive me for stereotyping, knowledgeable and orthodox Catholics. However, the number of parishes are significantly smaller and those parishes themselves tend to be more close knit and familial.
I will say this, for all of the issues attributed to Vatican II, mostly due to the influence of modernist heretics, people forget, the heresy of modernism was something that was being condemned and addressed in the 19th century with Pope Pius IX's Syllabus of Errors. I'm sure that the psychological fall-out of not just one but TWO world wars didn't help things since the Church began the move to exit from a militant Fortress Mentality to adopt a more conciliar attitude and reconcile the various peoples of what had once been the heart of Christendom.
Why was the index of forbidden books abrogated? What about Pope Leo XIII's vision of the devil attempting to destroy the church? Isn't he in action yet? Kindly enlighten us.
you have it wrong, the Catholic church is not supposed to wane with the rest of the world, and yet they did.
Ye shall know them by their fruits… Poorly understood, poorly implemented. Sorry it’s all been downhill since the Council. 2000 years of tradition and liturgical beauty was thrown out in favor of hootenanny Masses and clown Masses. And the people left…..
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
Father, this messafe is so important. Please continue on this topic. There is much confusion on this topic. You are a clear voice on this. Thank you. Praise God!
Vatican II in away affected the declined of Catholic Church attendance because of drastic doctrines reforms.
I participate in the Latin Mass. I don't like taking part of NO masses in general. And I agree entirely with what you said. Anyone who questions Vatican II should look thoroughly at Church history... We are one Church. NO attending Catholics are my brothers and have a right to participate in any mass permitted by the Magisterium without being harassed. Latin Mass Catholics have the same right and shouldn't be harassed. I think your position is perfectly orthodox.
@Ian Maybe it's a regional issue, because where I live is the exact opposite. I have heard people say flat out that I am going against the will of the Church for going to a Latin Mass, while everyone I saw from the Latin Mass was fiercely loyal to the Pope and if anyone tried to even come close to criticizing him or Vatican II would swiftly be told off to stop being rebellious. I'm from Brazil by the way. Here things are pretty strict in this regard. The laity does _not_ argue against the Magisterium here. If they try they are shot down by the rest of the laity immediately. But I have noticed this Holier-Than-Thou Vatican II criticizing attitude among Latin Mass American UA-camrs, so it might be a regional phenomenon.
@Ian As a convert I learned a lot from the LM Brazilian Catholics. When I converted I was all firey and wanting to be "proactive". I once suggested doing a petition and giving it to the Bishop with something people wanted. They told me point blank "This is the Church, this is not a democracy. If you have a problem, you pray. God will do the rest. We don't do this sort of thing here." It was a very transformative time for me, because I learned to be much calmer and humbler (I'd even say happier). I am very grateful for it.
I am thankful you published this content, it really needs to be said! I attend both services and see the benefits of each. We need to stop blaming popes, bishops and Councils for the churches problems. We are the church we are the problem. This current culture and philosophy has to stop looking down and blaming. We must look up shoulders square and take on the hard impossible tasks! Love and Prayers and virtual hugs
We are the Church yes, but why does that mean that we’re the problem? And even if we are what is the harm in trying to trace that problem back to its roots?
Maybe kids are still not learning their faith at their parochial school or with any real interest. Some try the classical education style. The fact is, most favs not cared to institute only that which changed over 50 years, so they need to stop pointing fingers at thisd who look to a time when they at least had the structure for a reverent Mass and education. We don’t see how things are now and blame the republic or the Constitution. We acknowledge those were fine; thd generation in charge of maintaining it failed them and us. We can go back and do it right unless we unleashed chaos and got concerned what other nations thought of our system of government and our version of doctrines.
Praying for the Restoration of Traditional Latin Mass
Then you should restore the proper order of the sacraments of initiation, stand during Mass, offer the cup, no Filioque, Fast from midnight, don’t receive Communion often, oh which era is the correct traditional one?
@@RPlavo Just before Vaticanum II
What happened is, that on the Conclave held after the death of Pope Pius XII, the Papacy was hijacked by enemies of the church who had infiltrated long before and had reached positions of power (cardinal). The valid Pope of the October 1958 Conclave was Joseph Siri, the former archbishop of Genoa, he was elected on October 26, he accepted, and took the name of HH. Gregory XVII. Few people know this. Immediately after his "accepto" he came under fierce attacks of the rebellious cardinals, who wanted to change the church from the inside, and they demanded that he'd not be Pope. There were death threats, and Siri backed down. He didn't abdicate, but he said; "if you don't want me, then chose somebody else". A Pope under duress can not legally abdicate, even if he should wish to step back. Two days later on Tuesday, October 28 Angelo Roncalli was elected, but Siri remained the valid Pope (that means that John XXIII was an Anti-Pope). Joseph Siri died May 2, 1989, and before his death he managed to appoint bishops and cardinals in secret. So he has a succesor, and this succesor was elected on May 3, 1991. I don't know who he is, or his whereabouts, but that man is the true Pope of the Catholic church today.
Liberation Theology ALL over.
I would rather attend to a mass where our Lords Sacrifice is honored and reverend than to atten to a social club that dumb down the liturgy of faith. We need priest that would speak up and defend Truth. Rather than to be loved by the world.
Its not illogical to say the decline the Catholic Faith came after Vatican II. Yes Vatican II was a catalyst
What evidence that V2 prevented a complete collapse?
I think the problem here is not that the documents of Vatican 2 were inherently problematic, but that they were so open to interpretation they let so many abuses to take place. Abuses which were left undisciplined, which grew and became accepted and the norm. The question is should the council have been written this way, or should it have made it more clear what it truly meant and intended.
Right.
Whether you like it or not, Vatican II is the greatest problem. And you Fr, a modernist in a habit.
I am a pre Vatican II Catholic, but when the Vatican II was promulgated I was full of excitement and wonder and awe as to what's new that will come out to my Church. I happily accepted every change that came out with more freedom, joy and responsibility.
Wow i wish there are more catholics (before Vatican 2) who obeyed Vatican 2
Are you delighted with Communion in the hand, standing?
Missed the mark on this one. I'm sure you would form a different opinion if there were restrictions placed on the Valid Mass you celebrate. Or what if your order had restrictions?
The Church has not followed its own "Spirit " of Vatican II. So many Liturgical abuses in the N.O.
You can make the Novus Ordo reverent, but you can't make the Traditional Latin Mass irreverent.
2:45 - "The entire world went through a complete revolution at that same time. Surely, revolutions of sexuality, gender, orientation, race, societal norms, war, and communications, all happening at the same time, is going to have an effect on the average worshiping Catholic, and might just influence church attendance and seminary enrollment."
5:06 - "Vatican II anticipated all of that."
Hmm...
Not even Catholic (yet?), just find it odd.
I really believe what Emerit Pope Benetic XVI said in the 60's, when he was a priest. The Church will be small but full of faithful people. The Church will have to start close over again, and these people will change the world.
The Holy Spirit is who is guiding the Church. We have the Word of Jesus on our side. This comfort me a lot. 🙏
Father, you have very good podcast hosting skill ❤️.. god bless you father ❣️
@@davidhawkins5329 ok man he just made a mistake. He didn't do it on purpose. Let's all keep calm.
David Hawkins dude. Chill. I don’t think the OP had Ill intent
It's meaningful in my own language and I can fully participate with heart, mind and spirit. Moreover, I interpret mass into sign language for the Deaf. If the only mass available was in Latin, I be wouldnt to do that, nor would any of the ASL interpreters I know. And the deaf would lose out again. I appreciate the Orvis Novo mass and Vatican II for other reasons, too. Getting guilt trips from pro-Latin folks is increasing and I wish it would
stop. We don't need the decision, our mass is valid and holy. The Holy Spirit was present at Vatican II.
I meant to say that I wouldn't be able to do that. (Interpret the mass into ASL)
Getting guilt trips from Latin folk?!...."Let not your heart be troubled"
@@tomgreene2282 Thank you!
What matters is not quantity, but quality!
I agree, the numbers and growth in church attendance means very little next to quality of faith- it tells me Casey believes more in the Church as an organisation rather than as a vehicle for praise.
Wake up to what Fr Casey is doing. He’s straight forward in his criticism of the tradition of the Church
Lex orandi lex credendi lex Vivendi..
Don't lie to yourself! The way you worship changes your beliefs and the way you live. I know this personally as when I attended the Novus Ordo I wasn't fed well.. I kept leaving feeling hungry.. the air of the novus ordo churches are different.. you don't see a sense of revrence and faith.. when I began attending a traditional church eveyrhing changed.. I finally believed that God is present at Mass and that there is a mighty and loving God.. this ancient Mass has put fear and love into my heart and not to forget faith.
So don't lie to yourself and say the Novus Ordo has no problems.
'On October 30, the day after his seventy-second birthday, Cardinal Ottaviani addressed the council to protest against the drastic changes which were being suggested in the Mass. "Are we seeking to stir up wonder, or perhaps scandal, among the Christian people, by introducing changes in so venerable a rite, that has been approved for so many centuries and is now so familiar? The rite of Holy Mass should not be treated as if it were a piece of cloth to be refashioned according to the whim of each generation." Speaking without a text, because of his partial blindness, he exceeded the ten-minute time limit which all had been requested to observe. Cardinal Tisserant, Dean of the Council Presidents, showed his watch to Cardinal Alfrink, who was presiding that morning. When Cardinal Ottaviani reached fifteen minutes, Cardinal Alfrink rang the warning bell. But the speaker was so engrossed in his topic that he did not notice the bell, or purposely ignored it. At a signal from Cardinal Alfrink, a technician switched off the microphone. After confirming the fact by tapping the instrument, Cardinal Ottaviani stumbled back to his seat in humiliation. The most powerful cardinal in the Roman Curia had been silenced, and the Council Fathers clapped with glee.' - Fr. Ralph Wiltgen's The Rhine Flows into the Tiber.
Our lady of. Fatima said Do not change the liturgy
I don’t get why there can’t be both at every church. I’m not sure why I’m forced to drive 45-60 minutes each way to Mass when I could drive 10 blocks to a beautiful stone cathedral style church.
I disagree, Vat 2 diluted our faith, incorporated aspects of other faiths i e protestant into it. It changed wording in prayers, allowed communion in the hand - sacriledge really. The laity lost out.
Only sacred hands should touch what is sacred. AMEN!
Can we not agree that VII did actually have errors in it's texts though? Obviously this was not a good thing for the Faith.
Read Bella Dodd, I blame the Bishops being silent.
Thank you! I would love to hear more about why Both the 1st and 2nd councils were called to begin with. I understand vaguely that it was too being it into the modern era but I would love specifics!
It’s also interesting that when people blame VII for all the nonsense they forget that the priests and laity responsible for the early abuses were trained in the pre vii seminaries. I know of people who were told they could use birth control etc before the council published anything because they were ‘meeting to change all that’
So why is the traditional Latin Mass so full? Find a Latin Mass and see for yourself. You will never leave.
I do agree with what you are saying, most have not read any of the documents of Vatican II, but for those of us who have some will still have a different take on those documents. As those things concerning the Liturgy, I see in Sacrosanctum Concilium those things which were to be preserved, and in Lumen gentium the things that were to be reformed. Gaudium et spes is an absolutely beautiful document that every Catholic, Christian or non-Christian should read, the things expressed in this document are at the core of what it means to be human and how we are to live in a peaceful and just society. It seems that many from the 60's generation felt the church was over bearing in many ways, and felt they could flourish spiritually with the church less present, affording the laity the opportunity to take their rightful position within the church, but this hands off approach while well intended caused many of the ills we have today. Because many people want a return of a strong Catholic Identity, is why the Latin Mass has such appeal, many also want strong Bishops who are pastorally active, true, and trustworthy, priest who embrace their vocation, who are obedient and humble, because were there is love there is obedience. The clash between these generations is the driving force behind the turmoil. Many including myself, just want what Vatican II asked and said, and not the interpreted desires of some to do things the Council never mentioned. Many things went off the rails. So here we are 55 years after the council and we have much work to do to get it back on track, thanks be to God for St. Pope John Paul II, and Benedict XVI to help guide us on the correct path of what Vatican II asked of us, and for Pope Frances for being an example of living the council.
With all due respect he shares a lot of his opinions in a smug manner; just my opinion. God bless you and all.
Interestingly enough, at this same time, the Middle East saw what was happening in the west and went through an opposite revolution and saw the rise of the mullahs and their rad trads.
Deflection
Is it the world’s fault Church attendance declined? I’m pretty sure all those people stopped attending all on their own and stopped trying to teach their kids all on their own. War and economic oppression also probably had a lot to do with the breakdown of families and the loss of faith, but at the end of they day the answer has always been: hard-heartedness.
I Honedtly believe this move by Pope Francis will BACKFIRE! BIG TIME! ... I will still pray for him 🙏.
Your claim also denies the power of prayer in the liturgy. It dramatic changes are made to the liturgy wherein there is extensive removal of requests to God for His intercession, protection, etc - and it makes no difference in the world - it means the prayers have no effect to begin with.
Evangelicals made a major move on Catholics. The catholic church supported brutal right wing dictators around the world, specially in latin america. All these things made many people turn away.
Vatican II made me Catholic, i was a muslim
Great job. Subscribed!
Modernism, secularism, relativism, and especially liberalism, destroyed a good traditional moral world. Vatican II was not the cause of this. However I think the Church needs a “Vatican III” for a renewal in tradition, not a return to the Tridentine, but a new mass where there is strict teaching of faith, and more of a solemn and reverend setting with maybe some prayers in Latin and churches to be built like they used to be, in the shape of a cross with a beautiful high altar, we also need less laity in the mass, maybe communion rails would be a great addition again for more reverence and respect for the Eucharist, but not a church that is exclusively for the elect, where everyone is welcomed and knows the truth of the gospel, not a church that will shy away from “sensitive topics” a church were its bishops are charismatic and true defenders of the faith, not weak men who cower are the face of conflict and criticism, bishops who take up the cross like Peter and die for their people and face their persecution rather than run away from it. The church needs clergy that engage with their flock and wear the cassock or clericals in public, who show without shame that they are men of the cloth, think of the souls that would be saved if the clergy would show the world what they are. They act in persona Christie, think of the souls that Christ saved during his ministry, they could do the same by showing that they are him in the clerics. A church that focuses on the salvation of souls as it’s first and foremost duty. But that’s just my opinion.
Simon de Montfort the problem is that marxists and Freemasons and communists infiltrated the church, I believe they left their mark with Vatican II. But I agree Vatican II isn’t false per say, it’s just that it has allowed so much heresy to sweep in. Just wait though, Francis will ban the traditional Latin mass and there will be a schism. Every parish should invoke the Novus Ordo in a more traditional holy way, but every parish should also offer the Latin mass, the argument is always that we need to have access to liturgy that will feed the spiritual needs, then why do I have to drive an hour to go to a Latin mass, the simple fact is that most bishops hate the Latin mass. Again there’s nothing wrong with the Novus Ordo, I grew up with it, it filled much of my spiritual needs. But what we need is maybe not a complete return to the old ways but a renewal of old traditions. Hope that makes sense.
This is the most brilliant and profound analysis I have ever heard. I wish all Catholics would hear this. Thank you Fr. Casey.
Thank you Fr. Casey, I learn so much from your videos, my prayers with you. May the Holy Spirit always guide you and you feel God’s loving presence through your ministry.
As an atheist who is slowly exploring the faith I can say the novus ordo is a complete turnoff for me. All masses i have tried so far ar deplete of reverence, feel completely casual and honestly have me looking towards orthodoxy.
Before we have a full blown war in the comments, we should first seriously consider our own beliefs and that of our brothers with clean reason, and say everything with the Love of Jesus. There is nothing wrong with a debate, as long as we stick plainly to logic and not the so corruptible heart. By the Power of the Holy Spirit we can be One in the Church.
We've always been one in the Church but a healthy debate is meritted on this topic.
I think what bothers many people who attend Latin Mass and why they shift over is because of the following:
- the lack of reverence in the Ordinary Form (particularly receiving communion).
- the inconsistency and constant changes of the Ordinary Form (I grew up in the Ordinary Form and have witnessed these inconsistencies)
- the loss of tradition
- the idea that the Mass is an evangelization tool instead of a place for worship and spiritual revitalization
- the idea that we're their to celebrate a meal instead of re-witnessing the Holy Sacrifice
- how the hierarchy and other laity brush it aside as a piece of quaint, peculiar history that no longer has a place in the Church as if it did not nourish the lives of the faithful for around 1800 years and even St. Thomas Aquinas (a doctor of the Church) praised it and wrote about the intense beauty of the Extraordinary form
The Church has a broad liturgical history and tradition but one thing which sticks out like a sore thumb is the fact that the Ordinary Form is the only liturgy within the Church (including the Eastern Rites) where permission is needed by the conference of bishops to receive communion on the hand.
As I've stated, we've always been one in the Church, and we have a colorful mural of liturgical traditions.
I'm not completely certain where the vitriol is coming from (probably all sides) but I do believe that those who have been asking for more access to the Tridentine Mass have been sidelined, in particular, by the hierarchy and the priests who have followed their example.
The_Gaffer well said! Always be charitable towards each other.
Is receiving the Holy Eucharist by hand bad? or are we just making our own rules? In the bible Jesus didnt gave the Eucharist directly into his deciples mouth. He didnt said to only use Latin language in a mass. He just said " Do this in memory of me". So it doesnt matter what language we use in a mass as long as we attend the mass and recieve God's body and blood. Many poeple stop attending the mass because of poeple trying to say that novus ordo is invalid which is exactly what the devil wants. Think of all the Eucharistic miracles happening all around the world, were they consecrated using a traditional mass? I dont think so.
@pepe bastardes did Jesus gave the Eucharist directly to his deciples mouth? If you really follow tradition we should be following what Jesus exactly did. I have been recieving communion by mouth but recently i need to recieved it by hand because of covid. No ones forcing poeple to recieve by hand ,it is really up to you.
@pepe bastardes The Eucharistic miracles just shows that no matter what type of mass we attend novos or traditional Jesus is always there.
Thank you Fr Casey! I am a convert and thought I was joining a unified church and was deeply saddened to find all the same bickering and finger pointing here in the Catholic Church as I did in my Protestant ones. I’m also disheartened by people telling me that my love for the Novus Ordo is simply because I’m new and in time I’ll grow to love Latin Mass more. While I think the Latin Mass is beautiful and entertaining, I’m better able to worship with my whole heart when I understand what’s happening and able to mentally ascend and participate in the Mass. This, along with my daily rosary, morning prayer, and devotional reading truly shape me to become closer to Christ and more in line with God’s Word. I don’t think I’d find the same thing if all I was offered was the Latin Mass and in fact, don’t think I would have even been drawn to convert because I wouldn’t have known what was going on to even investigate it in the first place.
I’m a revert and totally agree with this!! A properly reverent Novus Ordo Mass is one of the most beautiful things on the planet
“It follows that these separated churches and communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have, by no means been deprived of significance and important in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ had not refrained from using them as means of salvation …”
- Paul VI, Unitatis Redintegratio, No. 3, Nov. 21, 1964
“Since however there is for both regulars and seculars, for superiors and subjects, for exempt and non-exempt, one universal Church, outside of which there is no salvation …”
- Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne
I'm a convert as well and the more I learn the faith and Church history, I am angered and hurt by what was taken away from us, the restrictions placed on the TLM, the liturgical abuses in the Novus Ordo, and the Church not actually following the "Spirit " of Vatican II.
Just look at the abuses and scandal of Our Holy Father Pope Francis. Pray the next Chapter in Our Church brings New Life and Unity, not more division
None of the Masses in any rite of the Catholic Church are about us
Novus Ordo is heretical and not Catholic
When the priest is devout and holy, the sheep are also.
Well said
Our High priest is indeed Holy and righteous and the beloved Son of God. Hence He interceeds for us, He is the perfector and finisher of our faith and we hope to be with Him where He is.
Sicut sacerdos, sic populo - Pope St Pius X
Maggie Patterson
So we can’t be devout if our priest isn’t?
That is nonsense - of course we can! And we should be praying for our priest if he is not devout.
@@pjsmith4369 No one is saying that; we're just emphasising the point that grace flows *downwards* through the hierarchy of the Church. From bishops to priests, and from the priest to his congregation. A holy priest is a *huge* help to one's own personally holiness, which is why, even today, people tend to follow priests around from parish to parish. It's also why everyone loved and is now devoted to John Paul II
In the end... After attending traditional or novus ordo mass, did you you become more like Christ?
Very good point!
Ultimately all that matters.
For me, novus ordo.
@@monmca9371 I must confess that I have seen problems in Novus Ordo even before I knew about the TLM. But after going through all the back and forth, I seem to think it just depends on the priest who celebrates the Mass. And maybe the TLM does not give much scope to the priest to put his own things into the Mass. Whereas in the NO Mass, its like free for all, so maybe that's why people are preferring TLM. Only If the Priest celebrates NO mass with reverence, I dont think there is any problem in that.
Jesus wasn’t a 1960s hippy
Father, I’m afraid you’re misrepresenting your opponents’ position. Their argument is not one of causality, rather they claim that the Church ought not have capitulated to the culture, and that has magnified the negative effect on the faith caused by the underlying social currents. It’s a far more subtle and nuanced argument...
No he`s not. Ive heard alot of what he is saying from antivavticanII believers. And he could add so much more of their nosense.
One criticism I have of Father's video is that he appears to miss a central point in Catholic home life:
When you orient your life around Christ, all else will fall into place.
I think this is where your criticism is crucial: that the Church has appeared to have capitulated to the culture.
Pope St. Pius X has declared modernism 'the synthesis of all heresies' and yet the council was concerned about the needs of "modern man", as if man is any different from when he was created by God.
I cant help but notice the people who commented negatively on your comment don't actually address the issue you raised
Jason Quick They can’t. Vatican II has caused serious problems, all they can do is push the issue to the side
@@anthonyburke3000 on point! I totally agree with you. Modernism is the synthesis of all heresies. As if the church needs changing. It is man's sinfulness that needs changing. Truth is never changeable... Truth that is God and God who is in His church ❤️
I’m not saying V2 contributed to the problem, but V2 contributed to the problem
It is all because we went from black and white to color TV’s.
Not really, but I wanted to be the first to say it.
Yeh, looking at a screen full of snow in color is much better than Black and White. Snow is thousands of tiny dots on your screen moving around, not the snow that falls from the sky. For those that don't know.
Word lol
Mama Bouchet says Buddy Holly and all the devil music that followed is to blame. That or Ben Franklin (but its a little harder to make that timeline work).
It’s all because mankind began space exploration....
You're wrong. It was Godzilla. Godzilla did this. He did it on purpose. And yet nobody knew....
You completely overlook the single most important factor: the complete collapse of rigorous catechesis, and the resultant failure to transmit the faith to the young that has occurred since Vatican II. This is the greatest scandal of all, and there is still no sense of crisis about it in the Church hierarchy. When 70% of churchgoing catholics don't believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, what meaning does it have to call them Catholic?
I hardly think that this is a larger factor than World War II.
I agree, the priests are no longer faithful and obedient to our Lord's command to baptise and hear confession of sins. Most vatican 2 catholics rarely go for confession and receive the eucharist without fear of God.
What about now do we have world war 2👎
@Joe Panico-- Re: "...the complete collapse of rigorous catechesis, and the resultant failure to transmit the faith to the young ..." What did Vatican II have to do with that? Was there some requirement that parishes eliminate all religious instruction proclaimed?
The reason the Church is declining is because we have lost our love & devotion to God. Man looks to himself as God in these modern times.
Vatican II made changes in the Mass and sacraments. The Mass became more of a banquet than a sacrifice. They Protestanised it. Shortly afterwards the Vatican II Spirit caught on and communion rails disappeared and communion inn the hand became common
Reverence for the mass declined. Proper worship facilitates greater belief. Changes in the liturgy and decline in reverence for the Eucharist constituted a significant negative development. Why did they mess around with the mass and sacraments? How is that good? This young priest should not have ignored this facet of Catholic devotion.
What was so great about the Council's documents. The church was already strong in its doctrine before the Council. Vatican II paved the way for greater infiltration of modernism and liberalism in the church.
Yes!
Novus Ordo focuses more on the Last Supper than what it truly is…
The commemoration of His death and Sacrifive at Golgotha.
Without our latin mass. We sound the same as protestant mass....we've lost our identity as Catholics.
Yup, I’ve been to masses where the only Catholic display was the Transubstantiation. The rest of the Mass? A Protestant mess. Shallow homilies that the priest put little to no effort in, female and/or male Eucharistic ministers, terrible music that made me feel like a baptist…. It’s a sad state out Church is in right now. The priests are meant to conform to the rules of the Mass, not the other way around. Latin mass for the win, things are done with reverence in that rite. I can’t say if it’s the same for other rites in the Church. I’ve only had exposure to the Latin and NO rite, but I’ve heard the other rites are devout.
Where I live Novus Ordo and only ONE variant of the Latin Mass are allowed in my city. Crazy times we’re living in.
@@Bellasobored the great composer wrote masses to be used in mass. Commissioned as well.
Nobody suggest to go back to the 1962 missal , just let us have the option of the TLM at our parishes. We want tradition with Christ not world political pressure from Rome .
This was really helpful to me as a Protestant with a primarily Catholic audience on my channel, many of whom really like to debate Latin Mass vs. Novus Ordo, and all of the criticism of Vatican 2 can be a bit head spinning as an outsider. Thanks for the work you're doing on this channel. It has really helped me in my understanding of Catholicism.
There is a division amongst Catholics and this is sad.
Delvin George Mostly in the USA, maybe the state of the Church in the USA was so bad that this radicalism seemed a sometimes reasonable rescue from the laxity on our faith. In Brazil it is not that sedevacantists or even hardcore critics of the Council of Vatican 2 are not significant; they seem to be pretty insignificant here.
Moreover I sense in their position some kind of “crypto-Protestantism” because their denouncing and criticizing are very similar to those ones that moved a young Augustinian friar named Martin Luther, that made not only one division more in the Church, but landed conditions on an everlasting divisive theology. So let’s not overemphasize nor underestimate this process or radicalism. Readings the documents (I simply love “Lumen Gentium” and “Gaudium et Spes”) is a way to understand that it is a radicalism to “protest” the Council even if we must pose against many of its applications on the hands of the relativists and bad politicized-radical-liberal clergy. That’s core to being a Catholic.
This is not Catholicism in general. This issue about TLM and Novus Ordo is isolated in the US. As the 3rd largest Catholic country in the world we never had this issue in the Philippines. Also, I asked my relative priests who are missionaries in Asia and Africa and they confirmed that there’s no debate between LM and NO in their respective countries they serve.
Love your channel 🙏🏻
@@marklouisondevilla847 Your right, it's especially contentious after the pandemic, which is still bad here in the US. There are a lot of arguments on both sides of politics on if you should or shouldn't go to mass right now, and TLM are the most prominent ones that are still in person, it's also a microcosm of larger political dissidence in the US.
The Left says that churches shouldn't meet in person so there is less spread but the right says that we should be going to church, and I've heard some likening it to going to mass under the threat of persecution.
Personally, I believe we should prevent the spread now and that there is a difference between you being hurt or dying and you AND YOUR family being affected, though I do understanding feeling spiritually deprived right now, I can relate.
I'll just put it this way; I went to latin mass for the first time. The latin mass is beautiful and so respectful. So no Vatican II didn't end the church. But, the implications of how the changes were put into place are plain to see.
“The Church also looks upon Muslims with respect. They worship the one God living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to humanity and to whose decrees, even the hidden ones, they seek to submit themselves wholeheartedly, just as Abraham, to whom the Islamic faith readily relates itself, submitted to God … Hence, they have regard for the moral life and worship God in prayer, almsgiving and fasting.”
- Paul VI, Nostra Aetate, No. 3, Oct. 28, 1965
"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, 'Three;' desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs."
- Qur'an 4:171
“For I firmly believe that the Holy Trinity, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit … the Creator of all creation, from whom all things, through whom all things, in whom all things which are in heaven or on earth, visible or invisible.”
- Pope St. Leo IX, April 13, 1053
@@John-jf8lw Paul VI was not saying "Islam is correct"
Father,
Fantastic video! The Church's problems and challenges run VERY deep. This goes all the way back to P. St. Pius X who presciently warned against Modernism, the "synthesis of all heresies," way back in the earliest years of the 20th C.
Keep up your gr8 evangelism, Father...
Dcn. Paul+
This "priest" is a modernist...
@@ACF1901
What do you base that on?
@@PaulTesta By their own definition, anyone that questions the TLM is a 'modernist and heretic'. They build their arguments on name calling rather than reason or to think 'outside of a box'
Pope Pius X was correct, what he warned us about has come to pass.
“... non-Christian religions, ‘which the Church respects and esteems because they are the living expression of the soul of vast groups of people …’”
- Paul VI, Message, Dec. 6, 1977
“For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils: but the Lord made the heavens.”
- Psalm 95:5
The youth of this priest must serve to pardon him somewhat..... But God preserve all us sheep from these wolves. Inadvertent though they may be.
This priest is a victim of the age. There are those who believe that the Church need to adjust to the world because they see the spirit of the world better than the spirit of Christ. The Church should be the beacon that the world look up too. Vatican II teaches inferior thought that we should adjust to the world. These people are unknowingly modernistic because of their being born, raised, and educated in this environment. Many of them are maliciously modernistic and want to change the Church to their image (rather than Christ's) as motivated by their human agenda. It is in the final analysis likely to be because of their problem against the teaching of the Church in sexual moral area.
Agree this man is a victim of this age; Vatican II didn't start the decline but it sure was a prime factor.
Terrible analysis of V2. Just terrible.
What lame answers Father. Jesus told us to judge a tree by it's fruit. The Vatican II tree has NO FRUIT!
Father, you are out of order! What happens the Church directly affects the world. I challenge you to explain to me how JP2 didn't break the 1st commandment hosting the Assisi meeting! That is a consequence of V2. You didn't mention the theological note of the council! The issue is doctrine not numbers!
I believe all are sinners, and that includes Popes and Saints (believe it or not) except the Virgin Mary
We know the just man falls seven times a day. These sins must be venial or he wouldn't be just. If it were mortal, then he would repent. Objectively speaking, the Assisi meeting was a grave sin and has never been repented of. In fact, they have been repeated. Worse has happened since. These are gross breaches of the 1st commandment.
Wow.
I am not a V2 expert, theologian or even attend TLM, but V2 wasn’t just some council. It had a huge impact. It completely changed the church so that an outsider wouldn’t even believe it was the same religion. This sounds like denial and an attempt at distraction. Thank you, but this is my first and last view of your channel.
Hold a debate with Taylor Marshall on traditionalism, Father Casey.
No thank you.
@@BreakingInTheHabit priests in the 340's: goes out on their own to preach the gospel to violent pagan villages.
priests in the 2020's: too scared to even talk to a conservative catholic.
..and you wonder why the catholic church is declining?
But think about it Father
There is actually need for a debate on this to settle once and for all, who is right .
Because you raise very valid points but for the faithful to fully get your side, your points must be able to withstand those of the Traditional side. Because honestly this is causing division among high ranking bishops which is not Good.
Division = not good
@@BreakingInTheHabit Got a genuine belly laugh out of me, sir.
Sadly you are too deceived by your own convictions. All read. Even historically Vatican II has greatly impacted negatively the Church. I will keep you in my prayers.
You have expressed an opinion without any supporting evidence. Would you care to elaborate and explain why you feel this way?
Values have changed!
Not many families unfortunately bring up their children, to go to church any more🤔 it's not fashionable.
It's happening across the board know matter, what denomination you belong too.
We are told in the scriptures that before Christ, comes again this would happen.
We are told this is why we need to be steadfast, in what we believe most of all we need to love, one another like Christ love's his church.
Thank you for the video, it was a good one👍
It gives you, much food for thought.
God bless you!
Stay safe.
Moira
From England.
Yes very true, also we have parents who drop their children off at CCE/CCD, and when asking the children if any attended Mass, only a few raise their hands. And I taught on a Sunday evening after Mass. So disheartening.
@@llnn1469
So kind of you, to do that👏💐
The key is not to give up! hoping things, may change again.
All things will turn out right, in the end🙏😊
We just need, to ride out the storm.
Stay safe, stay blessed, stay strong!
All the best.
Moira
From England.
Now that we could understand the liturgy, and the prayers. No one thought we might have questions. The Baltimore Catechism was not up to the task.
@Keith P. Gatto PhD Funny thing is I read it buy myself. That's why the asked, answered format. I didn't have anyone to ask questions of. I went to Mass More on Saturday morning, then Sunday. The New Catechism is heaven to a thirsty mind.
Amen to that. Values had a sharper generational shift during the beginning of the industrial revolution in the late 1700s than they did after Vatican II. Taking Father out of the home weakened the domestic church and shifted a lot of values.
The decline of Christianity has a major cause: Modernity and now Postmodernity.
That is certainly part of it. Refusing to react to it is another failure to the world and to God we have had. The Church's slow methodical pace was used against Her. With today's technology that should hopefully be less of an issue. Us beimg so aggressively niched against one another, that is something we must work through while we continue to moblize evangelization as we have been (Consider Word on Fire, St.Paul Institute, Lumen Christe Institute, Catholic Answers, Coming Home Network, etc Univ. of Steubenville. Napa Institute etc.).
Remember our Blessed Lord's final prayer to the Heavenly Father, that we might be one even as He and the Father are One. This is how the world shall know the Father sent the Son and loves us as much as He loves our Blessed Lord. Let us do as our Blessed Lord prayed for before His departure.
Yep, I also think it's mostly the slow reaction time. I guess eventually the cardinals will be accustomed to rapid social changes and technological advancements and when that happens the Church will start to recover.
Something else to keep in mind: it's impossible for the current technological explosion to keep this pace forever, mainly because the second law of thermodynamics doesn't allow that. Eventually technological innovations will slow down, and social changes will slow down as well (however I don't think the social changes will be ever as slow as before the industrial revolution, because fast communications allows quick social interactions and that speeds up everything).
@@luisoncpp Technological change honestly is more about us changing than physical changes. We are very far from running against entropy, our technology is grossly inefficient.
Though for other reasons I think you might still be right. I do believe this is a time of chastisement.
@@LostArchivist Catholics including myself (at one time) were lulled to sleep in the sea of" I'm a good Catholic, I don't judge others they're on a journey."
@@llnn1469 I am also a Catholic. To some extent we can not judge. A person's worth we can not, but deeds on their face we can and at times must.
When it comes to fraternal correction, consideration should be taken if your words are more likely to cause more harm than good, and if you have the authority to correct the person. A child for instance has no authority to correct their parent, St.Paul gives instructions for such occasions as correcting elders and our Blessed Lord, Jesus Christ gives instructions on this in general. There are practices we ought to follow in these matters.
God bless you, my sister.
Our grandparents and parents are very liberal, and now studies are strongly showing 20 and below is far more conservative than even the WW2 generation. Another thing we know is that as you get older, you get more conservative. Adding to that, conservatives are the only ones having children in any decent numbers. With border insecurities in the face of globalism, and the risk of complete culture loss I think all of this creates a strong combination to lead to a rise in our values, our traditions, and our faith.
Sources?
Not sure I buy that. There are a lot of lunatic 20 year olds attending the local propaganda mills, Oh, I mean universities, who are being shown on TV daily showing their very tolerant opinions.
Majority of conservatives I know have no more than 3 kids. Usually 2. Very small minority are having more than 4 or 5.
@@MrProsat a higher percentage of Gen z are conservative according to pew. It's Only 30 Percent But It's higher than the previous generations when they conducted the same poll. I think it was 21 percent of millennial were conservative at age 20 but as the posted mentioned, with age, you become more conservative.
@@kles44 clearly many become conservative as they age, but i dont buy the "more 20 year olds are conservative" meme.
After comparing the Pre-Vatican II traditional lenten practices with today's current lenten practices, I have to say the difference in devotion and sacrifice towards Jesus seems immense. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that today's generation, along with the current lenten practices, are obscenely relaxed in comparison to traditional practices. Would love to know what you think!
I agree with you.
Amen 🙏
It makes me sad to see the Mass/Catholicism/prayer etc being discussed as if they are mainly for the benefit of humans.....when they are primarily for the benefit of the glory of God, and secondarily for the benefit of us. How does relaxing lenten requirements not obviously switch those two things around, and put humanity before God?
And if we think, 'well God is just fine without us....He doesn't need us to be prioritising Him *ALL* the time', then we are even more foolish than has already been established over millenia 😂😐
I believe the Latin Mass is an answer. If we don't look for answers we will never fix the decline in our faith in this country. The Latin Mass's return to tradition has brought me back to the church and I was born after the second Vatican council.
Liking for support! I don't agree 100% but I can get behind the spirit of your answer. I believe the OF is a theologically and culturally rich dev't that is a seed for growth in liturgical expression
So I'm on board with the Cardinal Arinze and Benedict XVI way. Namely, to have both all older and newer liturgies develop each other, to follow the Mass rubrics closely, and to have stronger catechesis for priests and laity. Plus more ad orientem and communion while kneeling!
The Norvus Ordo actually looks a lot more like the early Church than we think it does.
@@akahimself7321 agree! It will not be a fix all. I attend NO as Latin masses are not really available in my country.
It is a reverence issue and if NO properly and reverently celebrated makes a huge difference!
European perspective:
It´s kinda weird that the traditional Latin Mass Communities aren´t so "popular" (but respected of course) in areas where the most catholics live (Poland, Hungary or East Bavaria). But to be honest, the difference between the Novus Ordo and TLM communities isn´t that large in those named countries either. Reality is often not that easy. Maybe people with an more rural and conservative livestyle aren´t that tempted to misuse Vatican II...
I think we europeans don't really know all the stuff that is happening in america :D they seem to have gone totally overboard with new rites. it's kind of weird to even have this huge controversy, it's basically only happening in american circles
@Alexis Gilfered I understand. We do have our own issues too, some very similar. And ultimately, finding some solutions in going back to traditions is good, it adds to beauty of diversity of worship in the church. I only dislike the conflict that looks so nasty, between people who should be like brothers ultimately.
Novus Ordo can be celebrated beautiful and incorporate a lot of Latin if you want. There are 2 priests in different churches in my city in Canada that celebrate the Novus Ordo with incense and some prayers in Latin and tremendous reverence and almost everyone receives Jesus on the tongue while kneeling and lots of women veil and everything is solemn and they wear beautiful vestments and from time to time even celebrate ad orientum (yes, Novus Ordo can be celebrated ad orientum and Pope Benedict XVI gave every priest the right to do so if they want to). In countries like Poland, Vatican II was well applied by literally St Pope John Paul the Great while he was a Bishop there. So they celebrate the Novus Ordo well. I think that a lot of people only like the Tridentine mass because they’ve never seen reverence in any other context, which is so sad. The Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom in any Byzantine Church, the mass of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St Peter, and a well celebrated Novus Ordo were all be good things for more people to see and realize that reverence and Tridentine aren’t synonyms.
@@malaMu3 That may be true, but I also would caution that UA-cam may not be the best place to form opinions on what is happening in the Catholic Church here in the U.S. I'm fairly active in my parish and diocese, and also here on UA-cam quite a bit. The two (real and social media) can seem like different worlds.
I am Italian and i don't really see many people being against V II, a lot of people go to Paul VI Mass and traditionalists are few and far between and not as vocal as in the USA
I think GagaV8 is right in the first paragraph of his comment, in Italy Protestantism was almost non existent, so the new mass would have been more welcome because people would have understood the mass.
Also i see that many of those Catholic influencer who go to Latin Masses are pretty young so they would have seen only the "newer" Latin Mass. I personally have no experience to speak of, i am just 18, but my grandparents told me what happened during a pre VII mass... it does not seem like what those influencers (expecially Brian Holdsworth) describe. People did not have the pampleths to read the Mass (those that could read) so they passed their time by reading or doing a rosary or chatting also the priest was wispering most of the time but probably the worst part was priests on side altars, so having multiple masses celebrated at the same time in churches creating more confusion.
I just remembered how, in a livestream with Blue Collar Catholic, Timothy Gordon said as a joke "i don't get why they had to change the Mass". Yeah, i would love to see the guy in an actual pre VII Latin Mass...