Chris from Olivia's trains here. you say the loco tender connection worked fine on other models. trust me it didn't the amount of returns for the connection breaking or tabs snapping inside it was silly. so with that said we are 1 shop with a lot of problems from the connection i assume Hornby got a lot more complaints for the same issue, so i am assuming they have reversed back to the 4pin plug until a better design is made
I’m assuming they went back to the four pin plug because this is the original b17 chassis with a new body, so they didn’t bother changing the tender connection
@@Alpha-oo8 agreed just use the old design, it worked so why change it. i still hope they have done a reversal on the new connections. as a person who has had to repair many there awful, cheap and as delicate as i am very very easy to break
@@chrishaynes1804 such a shame… Hornby do seem to struggle a bit with innovation. Like, they don’t do enough R&D. The ideas are good, like the tender couplings, the removable working lamps, but they seem to have problems that more development time may have fixed. How are the tender couplings from the other manufacturers? In your experience, do they have similar problems to the Hornby one, or do they work most of the time?
@@Alpha-oo8 off the top of my head i cant think of any having any issues which means there doing there job. the only 1 that does come to mind that did have a few issues was the Rapido Stirling single it was a bit floppy and very delicate. but other than that example there all pretty solid. if there is any you are specifically wanting info about i would be happy to give you my thoughts
@@chrishaynes1804 it maybe that the b17 is not made in the same factory as the other designs with the silly push together (hope the traction forces don’t stress the contacts) draw bar. However I think it is logical to take the decision to use the existing proven harness design on a chassis design which also has been previously used if requiring som updates for the new model. Why introduce expenditure on a feature which is unproven (or proven to be unreliable depending on dates of freezing the design) which would not threaten sales of omitted? Olivia’s is a first class shop by the way - well done!
I love how this loco is so small yet also streamlined! It looks so unique because of that, despite the fact it basically just looks like a mini A4 (or mini Rebuilt W1)
Dude, every time ya said b17 instantly made me think I was watching a video about WW2 bomber planes. I've been on a bit of a war history binge these days. Lol
Hold their feet to the fire,make ‘em smoke!!!’ You would think fire box flicker, etched name plates, smoke unit wouldn’t be asking too much. Premium prices need premium features.
It's a nice looking loco - but the price is insane!! (Plus due to rise tomorrow!) Deffo won't be buying unless it's seriously reduced. Does look fantastic in the green though.
Well, I do have to say it is a good looking locomotive and an excellent runner. Your assessment was fair but I think a D would have been more concise. Hornby is very close to folding and needs to stop the bleeding. I think they should appeal to the masses and tell them exactly why the price is so high and stop blaming inflation as the only cause. Once Hornby and other manufactures opted to move production to China the clock started ticking. Nostalgia and loyalty can save a company, but the company has to trim the fat and that starts at the top. I wish I had better news for the future of this hobby, but all things change. Time for a beer, cheers! Great review and video, Jersey Bill
Thanks a lot for sharing Bill, appreciate your thoughts! I think trimming the fat is really what Hornby needs to do - job loss is terrible and not at all desirable... but if they don't fix this and go out of business, everyone loses their jobs! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I agree. The whole thing wreaks of poor management and their commercial strategy has big holes all over it. I'm all for variety and a strong British manufacturing base (Moving production to China, whilst saving them money was a poor business decision given that the company, for our hobby, has always represented the very best of British!) but the unnecessarily high pricing alienates their base market, the one they have always been able to rely on in the past. I applaud them for the vision of TT but to introduce it as they did, in a market where the vagaries and the confusion of Brexit were completely predictable, just didn't make any sense at all. I really want Hornby to survive but, as it stands, if current marketing trends and policies continue, I don't think they stand a dog's chance. Far better to knock managerial heads together now, bring the production back from China, and save some long-term jobs and skills rather than to let the whole thing go to the wall and lose part of our model railway heritage. I'm happy to pay a small premium for Hornby models but this B17/5 is just a step too far.
I bought a new R3171 Hornby P2 class last month for under £98 shipped. That had a flywheel in it. And while it didnt have a firebox flicker or a diecast body, it also didn't have near Hornby Dublo tier pricing. I've really been wanting a modern model of an LNER 4-6-0 tender engine too and would like this to join the other streamlined A4s and Hush Hush I have, but that price and the features make it hard to justify. That cab interior is, however, spectacular.
Hi Sam. Another excellent, forensic review. Your process-focused approach is "best in class". I always search for your review on any loco I intend to buy prior to shelling out my cash. As an enthusiast living in East Anglia I would have definitely bought this loco, especially after tour review, but the damn price is just a deal breaker. Oh well... I wouldn't disagree with anything you said. But I think your final rating of an E is harsh. Keep up the good work, sir.
@@SamsTrains Your welcome. Regarding watching your reviews before I buy, Derails was offering the Hornby Sentinel for £59 (Inc postage!), so I re-watched your review from 2022 and decided to give it a miss. It was a close-run thing, as the price does make it more attractive, and I could fix the pickups. But I decided against it.
Hi sam! I just got back from a model trainshow! I got twelve working used locos and three cars for the same price as two new hornby locos, your guide on used models really helped thanks!!
Is it just me that sees the 3 engines in the following as the A4 family 😂😂😂 The rebuilt hush hush is just a a4 with extra set of trailing wheels on the rear The A4 is just a A4 Then we got this engine here bring a A4 with the rear pony wheels being removed and shortened in length 😂 One big One regular One tiny Get it now . We need a triple header with these 3 biggest to smallest eventually in a running session someday . This is what’s we all need Bye sam
I have bought this loco, mainly because it's just so unique. However because of the high price I chose to buy this instead of the Black 5. Had both locos been at a more reasonable price I probably would have bought both, and it's the same with a lot of other Hornby products where I choosing to buy one over another rather than both, or going to another manufacturer entirely.
Good review Sam. Funny you reflect my feelings exactly. I was fortunate enough to pre order this loco when club members got 10% off so I only paid £188.99. I like the loco but it doesn't give me the buzz that say an Accurascale one does. As you say it is lacking in features which is exactly what I thought and I asked myself "would I have paid much more for this loco". The answer was definitely no, even worse is a Accurascale or Dapol Manor with sound is not much more than Hornby's recommended retail price. The lack of Firebox flicker really got me, virtually all their competition's locos have it. Interestingly I have been adding it to A4s I convert to decoder in tender. The circuit board they make, makes joining that 4 way they use to the loco pickups easier.
i like how the numbers and letters have a 3d effect., long before that would ever be a term. not so much for the model more for the prototype, but you know what mean it makes you think.
what a cute little baby A4! Pretty good looking, the detailing is perfect, but the price is clearly over-the-top... It should be what a regular model looks like, not a premium priced one.
I like it Sam. In the bus world it would be classed as midi bus...skipping round corners/curves... Be great if you could strip off the cladding like an Airfix Snapkit
This is a pretty good model, but for such a price, I don’t want to have to repaint the green, fix the lining and boiler bands, fit decent wheels, fit decent valve gear and coupling/connecting rods, make a decent cross head, fit decent buffers, and on top of all of that, fix a lot of soft moulding. I’d be happy to do all the previous if the price didn’t make my wallet beg for mercy, but I don’t like the sound of a sobbing wallet enough to justify purchasing this model. By the way, the cable on the left side is the whistle cable, and the small brass valve connected to it is the whistle valve, Hornby slightly botched the detail, and it should look a bit more like how it is on the A4s (whistle cable on the A4s ran under the ejector pipe to the brass valve). Thanks as always Sam!
High price probably reflects that as a niche loco it will have a small production run and possibly no repeat, meaning the fixed costs have to be shared between fewer models.
Not a model train set owner, but none the less enjoy watching ST's channel. The cost of these locomotives and ancillaries are almost approaching lease/financing territory!
I’ve definitely been looking forward to this; everyone seems to want these streamlined B17’s! Regrettably I am not so convinced as I hoped to be. The smooth motion and diecast body are truly marvellous, as is the plastic coal load - for a change. Effort has been made to some degree and thankfully those merits show. But, regrettably with no new drawbar, firebox flicker, old motor without a flywheel, nor nameplates, I’d say this model is worth £180. Honestly I am chronically disappointed in Hornby’s price increase and this will only turn model makers towards the likes of Rapido, Dapol and Accurascale. Frankly, Hornby’s years are numbered. I, and multiple modellers haven’t been able to take Hornby seriously for a good number of years now. This new price says it all.
Hey Sam! Not sure if it's my eyes playing tricks, but I'm pretty sure the tender green and the loco green are different. I could be wrong, but you may wanna look closely at that.
It's a very beautiful made model, the paint is probably a bit thick on the metal body, making the detail a bit soft, but the texture, lining and printing are very good. Very nice wheels also and a good cab detail. I also did run fairly well on you layout with good control. The lack of any extra features like lighting, fire box flicker or a speaker is what lets it down, the mechanism is a direct carry over from the old B-17 but yet these features could have been included without a lot of redesign to the mechanism. However, while almost £250,- RRP is expensive but still relatively affordable compared with models on the continent nowadays. I recently did see the surprise model from Märklin for this year, the French 141R 2-8-2 class locomotive. While this model looks the part with lots of separate parts, smoke (sadly not dynamic), DCC sound, fire box flicker and head, tail and cab lights and even lights under the running boards €680 really is a price that puts me off, I could buy 2 or 3 UK models for that money even with the current pricing. This doesn't speak Hornby free of maybe unfair price increases, or is it the wages in China going up that much?
Hi Sam, Gresley had introduced the B17 class in 1928 for the East Anglican area of the L.N.E.R, 73 engines were built in total, replacing Holden's B.12 class. Where his A3 class couldn't run due to the strict axle loading restrictions, adding to the fact that the they also were too long for the turntables. Gresley's successor Edward Thomson motivated by wartime constraints he had rebuilt a number of B.17s with 2 cylinders to the extent that these became B.2s
So to sum up, very nice to look at, maybe not the diamond standard but still good quality, die-cast boiler, runs very well, it is way better than the new Hornby Black Five, and would be lovely to have... ...but it costs a couple of kidneys... Real tough one on this. Thanks for your reviews as always. The detail you go into makes it very helpful for deciding on what to get.
A fair and informative review as always, Sam. A very desirable loco which, despite its imperfections, might have found a place in my collection but for Hornby's 'over-ambitious' price, which is presumably even higher as of today (1.9.24).
I'm not keen on the stubby streamlined look in green, but I saw one in all black on AGR Model Railway Store's in-shop test track and that did look good.
I am glad they at least re-did the base keeber plate and contact wipers so they can be fully removable. I expected at least working lamps (in the express headcode) to be fitted even if it uses the old B17 chassis. I also expected a pre-fitted speaker at that price, and it wouldn't be difficult just to wire existing parts to this loco without raising the price.
While working lights would have been nice many pictures of the 2 B17/5s show them with headcode discs setup for express passenger apart from a couple of exceptions when it hauled a different train, there are a couple of photos where lamps are fitted but the majority of the time pictures show headcode discs.
One problem with the final presentation of metal bodies is the need for a primer layer of paint and its thickness. The paint dulls the sharpness of the detail (and this happens on 1/1 scale items also). A feature that should be noted on all models is the relative axial and vertical movement of the wheels relative to each other. This is the only way to get round corners and changes in gradient. Too rigid on corners, slow or derail, too rigid vertical will rock on the the centre axel over peaks and lift over troughs.
Maybe when Hornby goes under, Dapol or Accuscale can pick up the license for the micromist "smoke" system. Maybe even dye the water and add "dirty" smoke to the diesels? Maybe, to push the envelope even further, include crew members? Oh, and still be affordable models?
Hi Sam another useful review. I'm guessing with the tender-to-loco connection they used the existing tender so went with the old wire connection to avoid the cost of a newly tooled tender, which is understandable. Similar with not having firebox flicker if they used the existing B17 chassis. Another reason why some recent Hornby locos have new features and some don't is because some models were designed before these features were available and some after. The length of time between the initial plans for a model being drawn up and the finished article arriving in the shops can vary due to various factors such as: - How long it took to finalise the design. - If any issues were found when checking the pre-production prototype which needed correcting. - Which of the various factories Hornby uses was making it. Different regions of China have faced different periods of lockdown so some factories have had their production times affected more than others. Additionally I understand that some have faced issues with getting materials. A good example was the 2MT which took 5 yrs to finally arrive and so didn't feature Hornby's latest innovations. However I do agree the price should reflect that and one bug-bear I have with both Hornby and Bachmann is how they price some basic old tooled models the same as ones brand new tooling and new features. The 8F and 9F are a good example. Both have an RRP of £250. The 9F has a new tooling, diecast body, high level of detail, firebox flicker, etc. In contrast I believe the tooling for the 8F is pretty old, I think it might even date back to Airfix. It has poor detail, a plastic body and no features. It really should be in the railroad range. There doesn't seem to be much logic or consistency in how Hornby and Bachmann price some of their models.
Thanks very much - yes that's right it's the same solution as on the old model... I suppose I was hoping to see some updates for the money! They also used the existing loco chassis without updating it, which also explains the lack of features! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The new Hornby LNER B17 with the streamline casing looks very nice and its performance is fantastic. Shame that it is very expensive now and its mechanism along with its body are quite basic but it is a pretty good model Sam.
18:42 - Found a huge oversight by Hornby: the number on the tender is different than the one on the loco, clearly belonging to the other streamlined class member.
No this is not an oversight from hornby as it’s a builders plate you are being shown in the shot, let me explain, locomotive builders plates are not normally the same number that the locomotive was given, Mallard for example may be numbered 4468 but it’s builders plate lists it as 1870. A builders plate lists where the locomotive was built, it’s serial number and year of manufacturer and where it was built so for Mallard for example,it was built. By the London and North Eastern Railway Co, it’s serial number is 1870, Built at Doncaster in 1938, Mallards current tender is numbered 5642, yes this tender does have the number of the other locomotive but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is for that locomotive, another scenario is if the tender is actually for City of London at some point it may have been paired up with East Anglian, back when steam engines were running it wasn’t uncommon for locomotive and tenders to be swapped round if there was work being carried out on the loco or tender so maybe at one time East Anglian may have ran with the tender City of London had while the original tender East Anglian had may have been being worked on.
my one look good run poor at first but very weedy at pulling my pullman train i had to double head class 60 behind both run well together . and i am analogue.
A beautiful model, while expensive it is a quality item modelled extremely well, for enthusiasts of the line these two locomotives worked I think this is worth it. Expensive but nice, unusual and nobody needs a fleet of them. Personally I would rather accept a high price for something nice than a good value model which doesn't really rock my boat.
I had this on order. But a couple of months ago I cancelled the order due to cost. Hornby are over pricing the customers. They need to look after their customers
I must say, having heard you rave about die-cast bodies before on reviews of plastic bodied locos, I expected more when I saw this. I think I'd prefer plastic bodies with just some lead weights to put the weight up.
Ciao Sam, bella recensione! Condivido le considerazioni che hai fatto...per oltre 200 sterline, mi aspetterei come minimo un volano ed illuminazione delle lampade....nel 2024 dovrebbero essere caratteristiche e funzioni standard.... Un saluto!
Have you reviewed the tt version yet. Falcon is a nice looking engine. I've got an issue with willy white balancing on the centre drive wheels. The bushes obviously aren't going in or the rods are pulling it out. I'm not sure whether to open it or send it back, and whether to send the set back or locomotive only. Any advice ?
It's a very interesting and unique model Sam. I remember the old one had a problem with its front bogie, it looks like Hornby has fixed that. Cheers Jasper & Willow
now modelling 1930's LNER, not the East Anglia region specifically - not convinced on this due to the price, sub £200 maybe, if I see one on a decent discount I may grab one. cab lighting etc I can live without, currently ditto sound. Do wonder why it needs a 21 pin decoder given short of a speaker and the motor it doesn't exactly tax the number of wires. level of detail is decent from what you have shown, pity on the lack of crew though. does seem a bit of a step back very fair review, on a discount I can see this on my layout, just not at full price
It is a difficult model - Just 2, relatively unknown locos built in Pre-war LNER green. Plain black is the only other livery choice. Will look amazing with a teak Quad art set ( also very niche, but never likely to be done again). Will the B17/5 be done again, probably not, unless they do City of London in the green - hopefully they will not be tempted to do 'What If' blue and silver versions like the W1 in LNER Lined green. I hope this project doesn't burn them to a point that they no longer take these risks and just stick to the old favourites.
I don't see it's worth at $530 nz not inc p&p even if it had all the things you mention. I'd be curious what the profit margin is on it. I can't help but wonder if making bodies with cnc from billet would be cheaper to make rather than casting & the issues that arise from it depending on the reject rate when casting
Sam, I've bought a Heljan Metropolitan Bo-bo. It doesn't have any quality issues whatsoever. It's weird how some Heljan models are so good while others suck.
It's probably a production issue in the factory like cars some are built better than others. I have 3 heljan locos class 86 , 58 , 33 dating back to 2011 with no problems. I would advise to not use cheap decoders if running on Dcc 😊
Looking at the wheel layout of this loco it makes me think that despite it having 6 driving wheels it would be better described as a 4-4-2 or even a 4-4/2-0 as to me it doesn't look like a true 4-6-0
I much prefer the un-streamlined B17. I have a project coming soon where I got the BR green Railroad version for 43£ and will combine it with the BR Apple green body, named Sheffield Wednesday. All for less than this new release. I think its okay, the metal body was a huge surprise for me and demonstrates that Hornby can do streamline bodies out of metal (still sad that the Hush Hush has a plastic one). But holy crap over 250£ RRP is borderline insane. The Turbomotive, 9F and the Accurascale Manor are way cheaper or thw same price, but much larger or more feature packed. A shame, but at least the model itself is well built and looks stunning in it's unique way. Great review, Sam 👍
@@stephendavies6949 I mean technically sure. I tried Fox Transfers once. A bit pricey but their name plates and number decals are really top notch. Idk about removing numbers though. I just put the new name and number plate on my Hall Class back then, but surely, you can somehow remove the old number without damaging the paintwork.
I understand this model is a product of its time, in development longer than the models it released with. I’d say it’s true peers are the first bout of updated A1s and A3s. I’m happy with the modern features being left off, but that comes with leaving off the modern price tag. In terms of the drawbar, bit if a mixed bag, even with the new one working. For tight radius curves I think the new one does look better; however, the lack of a close coupling option makes it worse for more realistic layouts. In my opinion at any rate. If Hornby could solve that issue, then I’d be all for the new design.
I bought one of those A1/3s new for £122 from TMC. Rather different from the price of this model. I'd pay £160 - £175 for it. Who knows? There may be a "flash sale" of excess stock in a few months.
@@stephendavies6949 hopefully. Even now, there are some versions of the A1 going for less than £180. Heck, a Dublo Scotsman is going for a pent off £200 at Kernow at the moment. But, maybe I shouldn’t say that considering I am considering picking one up myself.
Good review but you'd probably take off another star for value if you did the review today as it's now gone up to £274.99 on the Hornby website! I found that the 21 pin holder needed lowering in order to fit a sound decoder.
It’s crazy to think that I paid £109 for a standard B17 just four years ago😨I have to agree that it’s a very beautiful locomotive but for £250 it’s just not worth it!
Sam, will you be getting Hornby’s LNER Coronation coaches to review? I really like them, especially the observation car and I really want to get them to run with my Mallard, but I’d like to see an objective review from someone before I do, given Hornby’s recent unreliability with models
Yep. As an enthusiast now living in East Anglia, I'd have definitely bought this if it wasn't so damn expensive! PS: I'm a ex-Pat from South Wales, and judging by your YT name, you probably have connections to that part of the country too? I see you pop up on various channels. OOBill just fixed my 56xx. It'll be waiting for me to try out on the layout when I get back to the UK early next week.
@@stephendavies6949 Hi Stephen, yes indeed, in Barry, me. I started modelling 50s SW steam freight but now I also do 80-90s diesel freight, US freight and a bit of passenger stuff of all eras and places. I have a few 56xx around the place - my neighbour when I was a boy was a 56xx driver who had switched to class 37s so my channel is named in his memory. Enjoy your tank Collett goods lol
@@Valleys56xx Barry: I'm just about old enough to remember the Scrapyard and walking round it in awe as a boy when on daytrips to Barry Island, not knowing at the time what I was looking at really. Now, of course, I bump into at least one of those former rusting hulks every time a visit a heritage line. I guess no self-repsecting model railway enthusiast from South Wales should be without a 56xx (or 57xx and a class 37 for that matter). Happy modelling.
Good video Samstrains keep up the great work. It better to been host about the price there lies about it. Plus I got the black do run but better over time but i have the same problems. Plus point of review to give good and bad point. Think is over price . Can get new sonic k class four cheap plus it can with fire box glow etc..yes details is ok but not amazing. Give gade 7 out of 10. Hornby Model Railways want to get 10 fit fire box glow and flywheel etc.
Hornby need to decide what they are. They are trying to cater to all markets, but instead cater to none. They need to decide if they are premium then they make premium and all the comes with it. Or they say, we are mass market producers, our models will be good quality but will lack some of the details of some of the more expensive brands. We will be decently priced, but not the cheapest in market. In the end the joe average hobbyist just wants a train that runs well, and if we do decide to pay the extra money then we expect the detail and bang for buck. Look at toyota, their cars are boring, but they are well made and are quality where it counts so lots of people buy them. Hornby have no direction and dont know what they are or where they sit in the market.
Sam I was looking at real life coaches and I noticed the roof had Matt finish. Maybe this might influence your opinion on some coaches? You should try out some second hand OO gauge graham farish stuff, like a pannier!!
Hi Sam I’ve basically stopped buying hornby.due to there excessive prices.i buy accurascale. And bachmann. As there models are better priced and better quality.
Since Hornby is a loss making business it seems quite sensible to reuse a chassis design and make the model more profitable. If they don't start making money soon we will lose them. Would that be a good thing? Maybe/probably not. My main issue with hornby isn't that they reuse bits of previous investment, it's more that their QC seems to be very poor. I can forgive efficiency savings if things work, not if they don't.
@@DanthehorseYes the coaches in this video are teaks and they are made by hornby, I did a short video on my B17 and ran it with the same coaches if you are interested, the only difference with mine is I have a smaller rake of coaches compared to Sam.
nice loco and it is nice to see diecast from hornby but it is what you pointed out lack of details. but one has to remeber that hornby is clarley struggeling with money. and is shows on some models but not on others. 🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hello I do like your reviews etc. and watch your videos regularly. However, as a very mature and price conscious pensioner, I can’t understand your price expectations. I moved to H0 mainly German three rail some time back. Their prices would give you nightmares. Yes, the metal castings are superior and all have digital fitted even smoke on most too. Hornby, are certainly struggling in sales within the market. You are correct in that the mechanics are weak and behind, but price, plastic or die cast are very reasonable, compared to the industry. Love the channel, please give us more…… best regards TonyH
You can't compare Hornby with other manufactures for their (heavy) 'structure' is completely different - resulting in higher price politics. At least this seems a well made and nice running locomotive.
On the price, a vendor tries to charge what the market will bear, without killing the market eg getting it to go to substitute products. Given that these are being reported as sold out, even at these very high prices (comparatively speaking), might indicate the Hornby priced it correctly and got their volumes right. Given that the model is relatively niche for those seeking authenticity, the very high price may not turn off potential customers who want something else for their layout or collection. Next time they announce a forthcoming model for pre-order, some of those who waited for your review before buying - and so missed out - might pre-order to avoid disappointment.
This poses a problem for the value-conscious customer. Some manufacturers restrict the volume produced in order to stampede customers into pre-ordering when they don't know whether the quality will be worth the price. Manufacturers who do this are being too clever by half. It annoys customers and in the long run works to the disadvantage of the manufacturer. Could this help explain why Hornby's books are in the red?
@@robmckenzie2538 That is very true but if Hornby has decided to segment their customers, they can price differently for the well healed collector or the niche modeller. The value modeller can look to Hornby’s lower priced offerings.
I missed the original announcement so didn’t preorder but was able to find one of the last few at Hornby. Since I am not in the UK I got the price down close to want sam paid, but the currency conversion made up for that in spades. I see these as a niche model which Hornby priced as a collectors item and that is reflected in the apparent limited production run as well. The Accurascale Manors are a much better loco at a significantly lower cost along with many other models, so I don’t really see why Hornby is struggling. Hope they don’t go under but I bet there will be another company out there ready and willing to pick up the pieces at a bargain price.
@@blueridgebonsai9155 I ordered Hornby's 9F 'Black Prince' two days before their price increase (my first and only 9F in decades of collecting!). Together with shipping, it cost well over Au$400 plus the inevitable "foreign exchange fee" imposed by the banks. Hornby's better models are fine, but with their new prices this might be my last purchase. Their problems in recent times seem to stem from poor decisions, including the "three tier" treatment given to retailers. My Accurascale Manor is not a smooth runner at slow speeds. The three-pole motor should surely be a thing of the past in the 2020s!
Doesn't work for me like the shortened version of the 747 Jumbo Jet - very odd to look at. Dunno - if Accurascale can do what they do without you having to remortgage your house to buy them then what is going on? As for having crew figures why don't they include that Royal Mail coach guy doing a shit off the back of the wagon? Appropriate? 👍
A good looking model definitely, but the price now is pushing people out of the hobby. Think I'll wait till it starts appearing on the pre owned market.
If you want or need a B17/5 for your layout, then yes, this is the best way of getting one. Kits are rare, and not great, the Hornby model is worth it for the paint finish alone.
Chris from Olivia's trains here. you say the loco tender connection worked fine on other models. trust me it didn't the amount of returns for the connection breaking or tabs snapping inside it was silly. so with that said we are 1 shop with a lot of problems from the connection i assume Hornby got a lot more complaints for the same issue, so i am assuming they have reversed back to the 4pin plug until a better design is made
I’m assuming they went back to the four pin plug because this is the original b17 chassis with a new body, so they didn’t bother changing the tender connection
@@Alpha-oo8 agreed just use the old design, it worked so why change it. i still hope they have done a reversal on the new connections. as a person who has had to repair many there awful, cheap and as delicate as i am very very easy to break
@@chrishaynes1804 such a shame… Hornby do seem to struggle a bit with innovation. Like, they don’t do enough R&D. The ideas are good, like the tender couplings, the removable working lamps, but they seem to have problems that more development time may have fixed.
How are the tender couplings from the other manufacturers? In your experience, do they have similar problems to the Hornby one, or do they work most of the time?
@@Alpha-oo8 off the top of my head i cant think of any having any issues which means there doing there job. the only 1 that does come to mind that did have a few issues was the Rapido Stirling single it was a bit floppy and very delicate. but other than that example there all pretty solid. if there is any you are specifically wanting info about i would be happy to give you my thoughts
@@chrishaynes1804 it maybe that the b17 is not made in the same factory as the other designs with the silly push together (hope the traction forces don’t stress the contacts) draw bar. However I think it is logical to take the decision to use the existing proven harness design on a chassis design which also has been previously used if requiring som updates for the new model. Why introduce expenditure on a feature which is unproven (or proven to be unreliable depending on dates of freezing the design) which would not threaten sales of omitted? Olivia’s is a first class shop by the way - well done!
I love how this loco is so small yet also streamlined! It looks so unique because of that, despite the fact it basically just looks like a mini A4 (or mini Rebuilt W1)
haha I know - I think that's exactly what makes it look so odd... love it!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Almost unique.
There was another one, 'City of London'.
Dude, every time ya said b17 instantly made me think I was watching a video about WW2 bomber planes. I've been on a bit of a war history binge these days. Lol
Also, as an american who doesn't know much about British locos, this model looks like an A4 that was shrunk in the drier.
Hold their feet to the fire,make ‘em smoke!!!’ You would think fire box flicker, etched name plates, smoke unit wouldn’t be asking too much. Premium prices need premium features.
Yeah I think so too - I certainly don't think those features are necessary, but at this price it should have had them!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It's a nice looking loco - but the price is insane!! (Plus due to rise tomorrow!) Deffo won't be buying unless it's seriously reduced. Does look fantastic in the green though.
Thanks mate - yeah the price is the worst aspect of this... not looking forward to the price rise!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Well, I do have to say it is a good looking locomotive and an excellent runner. Your assessment was fair but I think a D would have been more concise. Hornby is very close to folding and needs to stop the bleeding. I think they should appeal to the masses and tell them exactly why the price is so high and stop blaming inflation as the only cause. Once Hornby and other manufactures opted to move production to China the clock started ticking. Nostalgia and loyalty can save a company, but the company has to trim the fat and that starts at the top. I wish I had better news for the future of this hobby, but all things change. Time for a beer, cheers! Great review and video, Jersey Bill
Let's hope you're wrong, but I fear you're right.
As long as the Rivarossi Allegheny engines are released before they fold.
@@JerseyBill-x9r Yes, I'd have given en it a D too
Thanks a lot for sharing Bill, appreciate your thoughts! I think trimming the fat is really what Hornby needs to do - job loss is terrible and not at all desirable... but if they don't fix this and go out of business, everyone loses their jobs!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I agree. The whole thing wreaks of poor management and their commercial strategy has big holes all over it. I'm all for variety and a strong British manufacturing base (Moving production to China, whilst saving them money was a poor business decision given that the company, for our hobby, has always represented the very best of British!) but the unnecessarily high pricing alienates their base market, the one they have always been able to rely on in the past. I applaud them for the vision of TT but to introduce it as they did, in a market where the vagaries and the confusion of Brexit were completely predictable, just didn't make any sense at all. I really want Hornby to survive but, as it stands, if current marketing trends and policies continue, I don't think they stand a dog's chance. Far better to knock managerial heads together now, bring the production back from China, and save some long-term jobs and skills rather than to let the whole thing go to the wall and lose part of our model railway heritage. I'm happy to pay a small premium for Hornby models but this B17/5 is just a step too far.
I bought a new R3171 Hornby P2 class last month for under £98 shipped. That had a flywheel in it. And while it didnt have a firebox flicker or a diecast body, it also didn't have near Hornby Dublo tier pricing.
I've really been wanting a modern model of an LNER 4-6-0 tender engine too and would like this to join the other streamlined A4s and Hush Hush I have, but that price and the features make it hard to justify. That cab interior is, however, spectacular.
Hi Sam. Another excellent, forensic review. Your process-focused approach is "best in class". I always search for your review on any loco I intend to buy prior to shelling out my cash.
As an enthusiast living in East Anglia I would have definitely bought this loco, especially after tour review, but the damn price is just a deal breaker. Oh well...
I wouldn't disagree with anything you said. But I think your final rating of an E is harsh.
Keep up the good work, sir.
Thank you so much Stephen really appreciate that. Yeah worst thing about this is the price - pity about that!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Your welcome. Regarding watching your reviews before I buy, Derails was offering the Hornby Sentinel for £59 (Inc postage!), so I re-watched your review from 2022 and decided to give it a miss. It was a close-run thing, as the price does make it more attractive, and I could fix the pickups. But I decided against it.
Great review, honest as always and very detailed.
Thank you Sam.
Thank you so much - glad you liked it!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi sam! I just got back from a model trainshow! I got twelve working used locos and three cars for the same price as two new hornby locos, your guide on used models really helped thanks!!
Certainly is a beauty, it's a shame that the prices on hornby's models has gone up. Excellent video Sam, keep it up😁
It sure is - yeah pity about the price, otherwise it's a wonderful loco!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Is it just me that sees the 3 engines in the following as the A4 family
😂😂😂
The rebuilt hush hush is just a a4 with extra set of trailing wheels on the rear
The A4 is just a A4
Then we got this engine here bring a A4 with the rear pony wheels being removed and shortened in length 😂
One big
One regular
One tiny
Get it now . We need a triple header with these 3 biggest to smallest eventually in a running session someday .
This is what’s we all need
Bye sam
I have bought this loco, mainly because it's just so unique. However because of the high price I chose to buy this instead of the Black 5. Had both locos been at a more reasonable price I probably would have bought both, and it's the same with a lot of other Hornby products where I choosing to buy one over another rather than both, or going to another manufacturer entirely.
Good review Sam. Funny you reflect my feelings exactly. I was fortunate enough to pre order this loco when club members got 10% off so I only paid £188.99. I like the loco but it doesn't give me the buzz that say an Accurascale one does. As you say it is lacking in features which is exactly what I thought and I asked myself "would I have paid much more for this loco". The answer was definitely no, even worse is a Accurascale or Dapol Manor with sound is not much more than Hornby's recommended retail price. The lack of Firebox flicker really got me, virtually all their competition's locos have it. Interestingly I have been adding it to A4s I convert to decoder in tender. The circuit board they make, makes joining that 4 way they use to the loco pickups easier.
My class 28 Met Vic CoBo.is 1962 vintage, boxed and it runs well
Ahh fantastic - can't beat the old ones!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
i like how the numbers and letters have a 3d effect., long before that would ever be a term. not so much for the model more for the prototype, but you know what mean it makes you think.
what a cute little baby A4! Pretty good looking, the detailing is perfect, but the price is clearly over-the-top... It should be what a regular model looks like, not a premium priced one.
Thanks Damien - I think so too - over the top price, but a very decent model!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I like it Sam. In the bus world it would be classed as midi bus...skipping round corners/curves... Be great if you could strip off the cladding like an Airfix Snapkit
haha! Yeah it'd be interesting to see it without the cladding wouldn't it?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This is a pretty good model, but for such a price, I don’t want to have to repaint the green, fix the lining and boiler bands, fit decent wheels, fit decent valve gear and coupling/connecting rods, make a decent cross head, fit decent buffers, and on top of all of that, fix a lot of soft moulding. I’d be happy to do all the previous if the price didn’t make my wallet beg for mercy, but I don’t like the sound of a sobbing wallet enough to justify purchasing this model. By the way, the cable on the left side is the whistle cable, and the small brass valve connected to it is the whistle valve, Hornby slightly botched the detail, and it should look a bit more like how it is on the A4s (whistle cable on the A4s ran under the ejector pipe to the brass valve). Thanks as always Sam!
High price probably reflects that as a niche loco it will have a small production run and possibly no repeat, meaning the fixed costs have to be shared between fewer models.
Not a model train set owner, but none the less enjoy watching ST's channel. The cost of these locomotives and ancillaries are almost approaching lease/financing territory!
Hi Sam, I got mine direct from Hornby at the original pre-order price of £188.99.
That engine looks like Mallard but with different collors 😃
I’ve definitely been looking forward to this; everyone seems to want these streamlined B17’s! Regrettably I am not so convinced as I hoped to be. The smooth motion and diecast body are truly marvellous, as is the plastic coal load - for a change. Effort has been made to some degree and thankfully those merits show.
But, regrettably with no new drawbar, firebox flicker, old motor without a flywheel, nor nameplates, I’d say this model is worth £180. Honestly I am chronically disappointed in Hornby’s price increase and this will only turn model makers towards the likes of Rapido, Dapol and Accurascale.
Frankly, Hornby’s years are numbered. I, and multiple modellers haven’t been able to take Hornby seriously for a good number of years now. This new price says it all.
Yeah that's right - the basics are right, but at this price it should have more than the basics - pity really!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
when I read the title before seeing the thumbnail I thought he had reviewed the B-17 Flying fortress 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Sam can you actually do that
Hey Sam! Not sure if it's my eyes playing tricks, but I'm pretty sure the tender green and the loco green are different. I could be wrong, but you may wanna look closely at that.
It's slightly easier to see at 17:33, assuming I'm not just going bonkers.
It's a very beautiful made model, the paint is probably a bit thick on the metal body, making the detail a bit soft, but the texture, lining and printing are very good. Very nice wheels also and a good cab detail.
I also did run fairly well on you layout with good control. The lack of any extra features like lighting, fire box flicker or a speaker is what lets it down, the mechanism is a direct carry over from the old B-17 but yet these features could have been included without a lot of redesign to the mechanism.
However, while almost £250,- RRP is expensive but still relatively affordable compared with models on the continent nowadays. I recently did see the surprise model from Märklin for this year, the French 141R 2-8-2 class locomotive. While this model looks the part with lots of separate parts, smoke (sadly not dynamic), DCC sound, fire box flicker and head, tail and cab lights and even lights under the running boards €680 really is a price that puts me off, I could buy 2 or 3 UK models for that money even with the current pricing.
This doesn't speak Hornby free of maybe unfair price increases, or is it the wages in China going up that much?
Hi Sam, Gresley had introduced the B17 class in 1928 for the East Anglican area of the L.N.E.R, 73 engines were built in total, replacing Holden's B.12 class. Where his A3 class couldn't run due to the strict axle loading restrictions, adding to the fact that the they also were too long for the turntables. Gresley's successor Edward Thomson motivated by wartime constraints he had rebuilt a number of B.17s with 2 cylinders to the extent that these became B.2s
Didn't exactly replace the B12s, they were still around and the last ones went out of service after the B17s had gone.
So to sum up, very nice to look at, maybe not the diamond standard but still good quality, die-cast boiler, runs very well, it is way better than the new Hornby Black Five, and would be lovely to have...
...but it costs a couple of kidneys...
Real tough one on this. Thanks for your reviews as always. The detail you go into makes it very helpful for deciding on what to get.
A fair and informative review as always, Sam. A very desirable loco which, despite its imperfections, might have found a place in my collection but for Hornby's 'over-ambitious' price, which is presumably even higher as of today (1.9.24).
Thanks a lot Rob - yeah very much so - over ambitious indeed but a lovely loco!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I'm not keen on the stubby streamlined look in green, but I saw one in all black on AGR Model Railway Store's in-shop test track and that did look good.
I am glad they at least re-did the base keeber plate and contact wipers so they can be fully removable. I expected at least working lamps (in the express headcode) to be fitted even if it uses the old B17 chassis. I also expected a pre-fitted speaker at that price, and it wouldn't be difficult just to wire existing parts to this loco without raising the price.
While working lights would have been nice many pictures of the 2 B17/5s show them with headcode discs setup for express passenger apart from a couple of exceptions when it hauled a different train, there are a couple of photos where lamps are fitted but the majority of the time pictures show headcode discs.
One problem with the final presentation of metal bodies is the need for a primer layer of paint and its thickness. The paint dulls the sharpness of the detail (and this happens on 1/1 scale items also). A feature that should be noted on all models is the relative axial and vertical movement of the wheels relative to each other. This is the only way to get round corners and changes in gradient. Too rigid on corners, slow or derail, too rigid vertical will rock on the the centre axel over peaks and lift over troughs.
Maybe when Hornby goes under, Dapol or Accuscale can pick up the license for the micromist "smoke" system. Maybe even dye the water and add "dirty" smoke to the diesels? Maybe, to push the envelope even further, include crew members?
Oh, and still be affordable models?
Hi Sam another useful review.
I'm guessing with the tender-to-loco connection they used the existing tender so went with the old wire connection to avoid the cost of a newly tooled tender, which is understandable. Similar with not having firebox flicker if they used the existing B17 chassis.
Another reason why some recent Hornby locos have new features and some don't is because some models were designed before these features were available and some after.
The length of time between the initial plans for a model being drawn up and the finished article arriving in the shops can vary due to various factors such as:
- How long it took to finalise the design.
- If any issues were found when checking the pre-production prototype which needed correcting.
- Which of the various factories Hornby uses was making it. Different regions of China have faced different periods of lockdown so some factories have had their production times affected more than others. Additionally I understand that some have faced issues with getting materials.
A good example was the 2MT which took 5 yrs to finally arrive and so didn't feature Hornby's latest innovations.
However I do agree the price should reflect that and one bug-bear I have with both Hornby and Bachmann is how they price some basic old tooled models the same as ones brand new tooling and new features.
The 8F and 9F are a good example. Both have an RRP of £250. The 9F has a new tooling, diecast body, high level of detail, firebox flicker, etc.
In contrast I believe the tooling for the 8F is pretty old, I think it might even date back to Airfix. It has poor detail, a plastic body and no features. It really should be in the railroad range. There doesn't seem to be much logic or consistency in how Hornby and Bachmann price some of their models.
Time-to-market is a key element of success. This is not how it seems to be for the industry in general and Hornby in particular.
Thanks very much - yes that's right it's the same solution as on the old model... I suppose I was hoping to see some updates for the money! They also used the existing loco chassis without updating it, which also explains the lack of features!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That is lovely and as an East Anglian I especially like it.
The new Hornby LNER B17 with the streamline casing looks very nice and its performance is fantastic. Shame that it is very expensive now and its mechanism along with its body are quite basic but it is a pretty good model Sam.
I think so too Bryan - thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great Video Sam , You said it as it was.
I am sorry to see where this is headed. But I really want to say, you guys are so lucky to have such beautiful trains available to you.
18:42 - Found a huge oversight by Hornby: the number on the tender is different than the one on the loco, clearly belonging to the other streamlined class member.
Ahh very interesting - I missed this, well spotted!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
No this is not an oversight from hornby as it’s a builders plate you are being shown in the shot, let me explain, locomotive builders plates are not normally the same number that the locomotive was given, Mallard for example may be numbered 4468 but it’s builders plate lists it as 1870.
A builders plate lists where the locomotive was built, it’s serial number and year of manufacturer and where it was built so for Mallard for example,it was built. By the London and North Eastern Railway Co, it’s serial number is 1870, Built at Doncaster in 1938, Mallards current tender is numbered 5642, yes this tender does have the number of the other locomotive but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is for that locomotive, another scenario is if the tender is actually for City of London at some point it may have been paired up with East Anglian, back when steam engines were running it wasn’t uncommon for locomotive and tenders to be swapped round if there was work being carried out on the loco or tender so maybe at one time East Anglian may have ran with the tender City of London had while the original tender East Anglian had may have been being worked on.
I think the obvious reason for the old style tender connector was so that the chassis didn't need any retooling at all.
=
It’s all subjective, a friend of mine has one and he loves it. There again he is an LNER aficionado.
my one look good run poor at first but very weedy at pulling my pullman train i had to double head class 60 behind both run well together . and i am analogue.
Awesome video today Sam what a such good looking locomotive
A beautiful model, while expensive it is a quality item modelled extremely well, for enthusiasts of the line these two locomotives worked I think this is worth it. Expensive but nice, unusual and nobody needs a fleet of them. Personally I would rather accept a high price for something nice than a good value model which doesn't really rock my boat.
Looks nice good review Sam👍🏻
I had this on order. But a couple of months ago I cancelled the order due to cost. Hornby are over pricing the customers. They need to look after their customers
I must say, having heard you rave about die-cast bodies before on reviews of plastic bodied locos, I expected more when I saw this. I think I'd prefer plastic bodies with just some lead weights to put the weight up.
Ciao Sam, bella recensione! Condivido le considerazioni che hai fatto...per oltre 200 sterline, mi aspetterei come minimo un volano ed illuminazione delle lampade....nel 2024 dovrebbero essere caratteristiche e funzioni standard....
Un saluto!
Have you reviewed the tt version yet. Falcon is a nice looking engine. I've got an issue with willy white balancing on the centre drive wheels. The bushes obviously aren't going in or the rods are pulling it out. I'm not sure whether to open it or send it back, and whether to send the set back or locomotive only. Any advice ?
Hi Sam I saw a video yesterday about TT120 ROCO seam to be doing models in it wonder if you know Dave.
It's a very interesting and unique model Sam. I remember the old one had a problem with its front bogie, it looks like Hornby has fixed that.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Thank so much - ahh the old B17? That's good to hear!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
If you're desperate for one, why not but a used B17, acquire a used A4 body and do a bit of good old kit bashing!
Odd one out is the Stanier Mogul at 35:40, isn't it?
now modelling 1930's LNER, not the East Anglia region specifically - not convinced on this due to the price, sub £200 maybe, if I see one on a decent discount I may grab one. cab lighting etc I can live without, currently ditto sound. Do wonder why it needs a 21 pin decoder given short of a speaker and the motor it doesn't exactly tax the number of wires.
level of detail is decent from what you have shown, pity on the lack of crew though. does seem a bit of a step back
very fair review, on a discount I can see this on my layout, just not at full price
It is a difficult model - Just 2, relatively unknown locos built in Pre-war LNER green. Plain black is the only other livery choice. Will look amazing with a teak Quad art set ( also very niche, but never likely to be done again). Will the B17/5 be done again, probably not, unless they do City of London in the green - hopefully they will not be tempted to do 'What If' blue and silver versions like the W1 in LNER Lined green. I hope this project doesn't burn them to a point that they no longer take these risks and just stick to the old favourites.
The odd one out is the Bachmann 5P Stanier Mogul, the LMS 2965
I don't see it's worth at $530 nz not inc p&p even if it had all the things you mention. I'd be curious what the profit margin is on it. I can't help but wonder if making bodies with cnc from billet would be cheaper to make rather than casting & the issues that arise from it depending on the reject rate when casting
No not at all - I'd be very curious to know that too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hornby goes headhunting at Ticketmaster.
haha!!
Sam, I've bought a Heljan Metropolitan Bo-bo. It doesn't have any quality issues whatsoever. It's weird how some Heljan models are so good while others suck.
All their steam engines suck and their diesels are generally adequate. Being a steam fan this triggers me so bad.
cant agree on heljan quality wheels fall off the 47 and to co bo derails far to easily being top heavy when run at anything but a crawl
@@alfiewenn9440 Well I mean, at least some of their diesels work!
@@xavierlu5849 the bachmann and accurascale are far better
It's probably a production issue in the factory like cars some are built better than others. I have 3 heljan locos class 86 , 58 , 33 dating back to 2011 with no problems. I would advise to not use cheap decoders if running on Dcc 😊
Nice I'm going to stick to G scale for now .... OO prices have already skyrocketed here.....
The coca cola diesel shunter set is now $200 here
haha - I bet G scale will be cheaper soon!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam i have a question about your models, do you ever take them to like mode railway club layouts? Or do you just keep them in your attic?
hi sam, its expensive because i believe hornby is £7 million in the red !
More than that I think!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Looking at the wheel layout of this loco it makes me think that despite it having 6 driving wheels it would be better described as a 4-4-2 or even a 4-4/2-0 as to me it doesn't look like a true 4-6-0
There is an alternative to this, golden arrow models sells a resin body kit to replace your existing B17 body and tender ?
Ahh that sounds good - I'd be interested to see that!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I much prefer the un-streamlined B17. I have a project coming soon where I got the BR green Railroad version for 43£ and will combine it with the BR Apple green body, named Sheffield Wednesday. All for less than this new release. I think its okay, the metal body was a huge surprise for me and demonstrates that Hornby can do streamline bodies out of metal (still sad that the Hush Hush has a plastic one). But holy crap over 250£ RRP is borderline insane. The Turbomotive, 9F and the Accurascale Manor are way cheaper or thw same price, but much larger or more feature packed. A shame, but at least the model itself is well built and looks stunning in it's unique way. Great review, Sam 👍
It is possible to buy the necessary items to rename/number the B17s. I'm planning to do it with one of mine soon.
@@stephendavies6949 I mean technically sure. I tried Fox Transfers once. A bit pricey but their name plates and number decals are really top notch. Idk about removing numbers though. I just put the new name and number plate on my Hall Class back then, but surely, you can somehow remove the old number without damaging the paintwork.
How do you film your videos do you use a video cam or a phone
I understand this model is a product of its time, in development longer than the models it released with. I’d say it’s true peers are the first bout of updated A1s and A3s.
I’m happy with the modern features being left off, but that comes with leaving off the modern price tag.
In terms of the drawbar, bit if a mixed bag, even with the new one working. For tight radius curves I think the new one does look better; however, the lack of a close coupling option makes it worse for more realistic layouts. In my opinion at any rate.
If Hornby could solve that issue, then I’d be all for the new design.
I bought one of those A1/3s new for £122 from TMC. Rather different from the price of this model. I'd pay £160 - £175 for it. Who knows? There may be a "flash sale" of excess stock in a few months.
@@stephendavies6949 hopefully. Even now, there are some versions of the A1 going for less than £180. Heck, a Dublo Scotsman is going for a pent off £200 at Kernow at the moment. But, maybe I shouldn’t say that considering I am considering picking one up myself.
Good review but you'd probably take off another star for value if you did the review today as it's now gone up to £274.99 on the Hornby website! I found that the 21 pin holder needed lowering in order to fit a sound decoder.
It’s crazy to think that I paid £109 for a standard B17 just four years ago😨I have to agree that it’s a very beautiful locomotive but for £250 it’s just not worth it!
I have you beat - I paid £81 5 years ago for my standard B17!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, will you be getting Hornby’s LNER Coronation coaches to review? I really like them, especially the observation car and I really want to get them to run with my Mallard, but I’d like to see an objective review from someone before I do, given Hornby’s recent unreliability with models
They should call them the Mini Mallards, even though they are not that much smaller.
Fair scores there accross the board for me. The price is very dissapointing but unsurprising. Thanks Sam.
Yep. As an enthusiast now living in East Anglia, I'd have definitely bought this if it wasn't so damn expensive!
PS: I'm a ex-Pat from South Wales, and judging by your YT name, you probably have connections to that part of the country too? I see you pop up on various channels. OOBill just fixed my 56xx. It'll be waiting for me to try out on the layout when I get back to the UK early next week.
@@stephendavies6949 Hi Stephen, yes indeed, in Barry, me. I started modelling 50s SW steam freight but now I also do 80-90s diesel freight, US freight and a bit of passenger stuff of all eras and places. I have a few 56xx around the place - my neighbour when I was a boy was a 56xx driver who had switched to class 37s so my channel is named in his memory. Enjoy your tank Collett goods lol
@@Valleys56xx Barry: I'm just about old enough to remember the Scrapyard and walking round it in awe as a boy when on daytrips to Barry Island, not knowing at the time what I was looking at really. Now, of course, I bump into at least one of those former rusting hulks every time a visit a heritage line.
I guess no self-repsecting model railway enthusiast from South Wales should be without a 56xx (or 57xx and a class 37 for that matter).
Happy modelling.
Good video Samstrains keep up the great work. It better to been host about the price there lies about it. Plus I got the black do run but better over time but i have the same problems. Plus point of review to give good and bad point.
Think is over price . Can get new sonic k class four cheap plus it can with fire box glow etc..yes details is ok but not amazing. Give gade 7 out of 10. Hornby Model Railways want to get 10 fit fire box glow and flywheel etc.
Maybe I missed it but you said you search a loudspeaker but not sure if you did? Maybe I am wrong.
Not filled. Space for it in the tender
Hornby need to decide what they are.
They are trying to cater to all markets, but instead cater to none.
They need to decide if they are premium then they make premium and all the comes with it.
Or they say, we are mass market producers, our models will be good quality but will lack some of the details of some of the more expensive brands. We will be decently priced, but not the cheapest in market.
In the end the joe average hobbyist just wants a train that runs well, and if we do decide to pay the extra money then we expect the detail and bang for buck.
Look at toyota, their cars are boring, but they are well made and are quality where it counts so lots of people buy them.
Hornby have no direction and dont know what they are or where they sit in the market.
Sam I was looking at real life coaches and I noticed the roof had Matt finish. Maybe this might influence your opinion on some coaches? You should try out some second hand OO gauge graham farish stuff, like a pannier!!
I wonder why...
Hi Sam I’ve basically stopped buying hornby.due to there excessive prices.i buy accurascale. And bachmann. As there models are better priced and better quality.
Bachmann locos are not cheap: the new 08 is a case in point.
A nicely made model,except for no flywheel,and a firebox light would save a lot of work later
Well, if the extra profit from the higher price and reduced sales volume numbers are good, than that's why they a doing it !
Since Hornby is a loss making business it seems quite sensible to reuse a chassis design and make the model more profitable. If they don't start making money soon we will lose them. Would that be a good thing? Maybe/probably not. My main issue with hornby isn't that they reuse bits of previous investment, it's more that their QC seems to be very poor. I can forgive efficiency savings if things work, not if they don't.
Did anybody else hear a whistle at 41:14? It's a shame that locomotive is so expensive, the price seems to be a real letdown of the model.
Are those Honrby teak coaches?
@@DanthehorseYes the coaches in this video are teaks and they are made by hornby, I did a short video on my B17 and ran it with the same coaches if you are interested, the only difference with mine is I have a smaller rake of coaches compared to Sam.
Is the O.O.O. the black 5?
I'm going to Bachmann as there going DCC sound at the same Price, Unless you want a Class go esle where
My first trainset contained the old b17
I love my old B17s.
nice loco and it is nice to see diecast from hornby but it is what you pointed out lack of details.
but one has to remeber that hornby is clarley struggeling with money.
and is shows on some models but not on others.
🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hello I do like your reviews etc. and watch your videos regularly.
However, as a very mature and price conscious pensioner, I can’t understand your price expectations.
I moved to H0 mainly German three rail some time back. Their prices would give you nightmares. Yes, the metal castings are superior and all have digital fitted even smoke on most too. Hornby, are certainly struggling in sales within the market. You are correct in that the mechanics are weak and behind, but price, plastic or die cast are very reasonable, compared to the industry. Love the channel, please give us more…… best regards TonyH
Hiya - I like the B17 Locos - but I specially these newer Streamlined B17 - looks like a bit like the Mallard!!! 😉🚂🚂🚂
You can't compare Hornby with other manufactures for their (heavy) 'structure' is completely different - resulting in higher price politics. At least this seems a well made and nice running locomotive.
A very fine model, apart from the price...I wonder how much it'll be costing from tomorrow?
Im surprised he actually got one those sell out fast
On the price, a vendor tries to charge what the market will bear, without killing the market eg getting it to go to substitute products.
Given that these are being reported as sold out, even at these very high prices (comparatively speaking), might indicate the Hornby priced it correctly and got their volumes right.
Given that the model is relatively niche for those seeking authenticity, the very high price may not turn off potential customers who want something else for their layout or collection.
Next time they announce a forthcoming model for pre-order, some of those who waited for your review before buying - and so missed out - might pre-order to avoid disappointment.
This poses a problem for the value-conscious customer. Some manufacturers restrict the volume produced in order to stampede customers into pre-ordering when they don't know whether the quality will be worth the price. Manufacturers who do this are being too clever by half. It annoys customers and in the long run works to the disadvantage of the manufacturer. Could this help explain why Hornby's books are in the red?
@@robmckenzie2538 That is very true but if Hornby has decided to segment their customers, they can price differently for the well healed collector or the niche modeller.
The value modeller can look to Hornby’s lower priced offerings.
I missed the original announcement so didn’t preorder but was able to find one of the last few at Hornby. Since I am not in the UK I got the price down close to want sam paid, but the currency conversion made up for that in spades. I see these as a niche model which Hornby priced as a collectors item and that is reflected in the apparent limited production run as well. The Accurascale Manors are a much better loco at a significantly lower cost along with many other models, so I don’t really see why Hornby is struggling. Hope they don’t go under but I bet there will be another company out there ready and willing to pick up the pieces at a bargain price.
@@blueridgebonsai9155 I ordered Hornby's 9F 'Black Prince' two days before their price increase (my first and only 9F in decades of collecting!). Together with shipping, it cost well over Au$400 plus the inevitable "foreign exchange fee" imposed by the banks. Hornby's better models are fine, but with their new prices this might be my last purchase. Their problems in recent times seem to stem from poor decisions, including the "three tier" treatment given to retailers. My Accurascale Manor is not a smooth runner at slow speeds. The three-pole motor should surely be a thing of the past in the 2020s!
I wonder what Hornby will do now that they’ve run out of streamlined LNER locomotives to make?
The ones that didn’t get made. Streamlined V2, V4 anybody?
Doesn't work for me like the shortened version of the 747 Jumbo Jet - very odd to look at. Dunno - if Accurascale can do what they do without you having to remortgage your house to buy them then what is going on? As for having crew figures why don't they include that Royal Mail coach guy doing a shit off the back of the wagon? Appropriate? 👍
Thank God Hornby haven't used those horrendous front lamps as added to the Black 5.
A good looking model definitely, but the price now is pushing people out of the hobby. Think I'll wait till it starts appearing on the pre owned market.
If you want or need a B17/5 for your layout, then yes, this is the best way of getting one. Kits are rare, and not great, the Hornby model is worth it for the paint finish alone.
Great review Sam. The model looks lovely, if only it were less expensive.
35:33 odd one out?