Provent 200 Catch Can - How well does it work??
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- Catch cans are supposed to stop manifold build-up by removing oily blow-by fumes. But do they actually work?
UPDATE AUGUST 2022: Follow-up 20,000km later: • [RESULTS!] Provent 200...
I installed a Provent 200 catch can in our 2012 Mitsubishi Pajero, then clocked up 18,000kms travelling through Western Australia, Northern Territory and South Australia, and here are the results!
0:00 - Introduction
0:20 - What causes manifold build-up?
1:25 - How a catch can tries to fix this problem
2:08 - The Provent 200 kit
2:44 - 2000km test
4:07 - 7000km test
6:32 - 18000km test
7:18 - Initial conclusion
7:57 - Future work required
8:49 - Recommendations - Навчання та стиль
![[RESULTS!] Provent 200 Catch Can - does it stop manifold gunk?? 40,000km road test!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7mfqRSkopXY/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for the detailed videos. By chance I just installed the Provent 200 and was now looking for tips to clean the manifold and came across your other videos. Just subscribed and will be keen to see the ongoing results.
Glad I could help! Most likely a physical remove and clean is your best bet in a few thousand km once the rest of the intake's blown itself clean. Welcome aboard!
Love the Provent 200 air oil separator. I've been using one for about a year in my 2023 Jeep Ecodiesel. It works and I love it.
Great to hear! They certainly do a good job at separating out oil and air. Doesn't fix the manifold gunk but if that's not the priority it's a good product.
Brillant video, appreciate the effort that went into this. Just subbed and looking forward to your other videos.
Welcome aboard! Glad it was helpful, look forward to sharing more with you!
Thanks for informative videos sir..
You're welcome, glad you found it helpful! Please share on your social media! 🙂👍
I found those catch cans start to work properly after the filter has collected some oil. The vapor likes to stick more to an already oily surface. So what you said about doing the manifold clean after your catch can has been on for a while is spot on 👍
Probably want to squirt a can of liqui moly after replacing the provent filter coz the new dry filter will let the vapours pass through again
Thanks for the tip, that could well be the reasoning!
It is a good idea to use some air filter mineral oil sprayed onto the filter when installing. This helps speed up the process.
I doubt that is the case.
Dont expect oil to immediately start building up in the hose after a fresh filter.
The filter membrane works by catching the oil vapour and gradually collecting it until there is enough to build into drops that are heavy enough to drop down into the hose.
Until that has built up, the filter itself will have a capturing capacity.
@slickstrings Doubt away, it's very well known. Just have a look at how much comes out of your catch can exit hose after a new filter compared to an oiled up one while its idling. If you even have a catch can
@@JOSH1657 erm, i do and again, completely unscientific and anecdotal.
Did you do flow tests? did you repeat the experiment? did you check multiple times on multiple days with the same atmospheric humidity level and at the same engine temperature since an engine will get more blow by while cold? has your study been published? The manufacturer says the efficiency is measured at between 90% and 98% depending on the mass of the weave when its CLEAN. Do you think your eyes can spot an 8% difference especially when atmospheric conditions influence how much vapor you can visibly see, especially when the actual composition of crank case vapour varies depending on so many factors? Did you weigh each filter to assess the variation between filters used?
Instead of saying its 'well known' why dont you just say i think because i saw it once.
Hi Greg, I love your testing methods. I agree....the dry carbon build-up in the manifold after the catch can installation won't be a problem. To build up carbon you need oil. Look at a truck exhaust, they get a layer but that layer never grows and becomes a problem. It may "self clean" as dry carbon needs oil to stick.
I had a 2012 dmax with 140,000 kms and upon selling it I noticed some oil seepage at a hose connector on the manifold. I didn't have a catch can, this was after the intercooler so imagine how much could have been in the intercooler being that it is mounted sideways and doesn't self drain.
Very true! Yep I don't think there'll be any more build-up but I'll check it out in a little while. We've just towed a van from Adelaide to Perth via Pt Lincoln so have put another 4000km on it, so I'll take a look in another month or so and see how it's looking.
Before I bought this Pajero at 186000, I looked at another with 220000 which had oil seeping out around the air hose leading out of the turbo. At the time I didn't know what it was from, I assumed they were oil pipes or something, but it might have been similar to your Dmax!
Cheers,
Greg
My boss’s 2021 dmax has an oil leak on the air intake from blow by oil. 70,000kms techs can’t find the leak but it catches dust and drools enough for trails in it
@mustangdude Check out the 40,000kms follow-up video - the carbon did in fact build up!
Hi Greg found this very interesting. I have a QF Pajero Sport and put one on at 20,000kms now 31,000. I would love to see you do an update video from where you left off?
Cheers
Thanks for the comment Brock. I'm currently heading up to the north of WA so have put on about another 20,000km since the video. Stay subscribed and I'll see if I can shoot an update.
Cheers,
Greg
Really keen to see how much carbon build up you get after installing the catch can.
Cheers I'll be posting the final video in this series soon, so stay subbed!
Thanks for taking the time to post these videos and test the age old question "are catch cans any good or a myth" I have the same catch can ready to install but haven't due to all the "professional advisers not to install them" "stick to the manufactures engineers design and R&D" etc...is there any truth in my understanding that the blow by return is connected ( without a catch can installed) on the air intake to the turbo therefore the oil residue (and soot ??) goes through the intercooler as well ???... I look forward to an update to your research... thanks heaps... Liked and subscribed
Hi G Man,
Thanks for the comment and subscription, I appreciate it!
I'm not sure which vehicle you have, but yes the blowby return is normally connected back into the air intake prior to the turbo. At 2:22 you can see me connecting this hose into the catch can, and previously it was connected to that clean port just to the right of my hand in the top of the rocker cover. So yes, all that oil residue goes through the whole intake path from that point, including the compressor side of the turbo and the intercooler. I believe this is why in the 2000km test I still found oil build-up in the manifold after installing the catch can, as this residual oil in the intake path was being blown on towards the inlet manifold.
In terms of the comments you've heard, here is my take:
"professional advisers not to install them" - that depends on who the professionals are and how the installation's done. Any aftermarket modification has the potential to cause unforeseen problems which is why caution and thought is often called for. One potential problem with catch cans is that if they block up then the blowby gases will start to pressurise the crankcase, and that pressure will start pushing oil out through gaskets, in particular the rear main seal. But that's why it's important to choose a catch can with a pressure relief, which the Provent 200 has, as this mitigates that risk. If chosen properly and installed properly I don't see an issue. But I was disappointed about the kinked hose in my install as this could cause a problem over time.
"stick to the manufactures engineers design and R&D" - anyone who has spent time in cars knows this is largely a lot of twaddle. If engineers could design the car the way they would like it, the accountants and marketers would reject it as it would cost too much. So everything has to be a compromise. A catch can is just another piece of equipment they have to pay for, and they would see little benefit. While a blocked manifold would often cause power or economy to suffer, as shown in the manifold cleaning videos showed, manufacturers have simply gotten around this by getting the turbo to deliver more boost to overcome any intake restriction. It's a much cheaper solution for them than paying for a catch can, and the only penalty is increased load on the turbo. By the time that causes a problem it's well out of warranty. However if it's your own vehicle and you value having a clean manifold and reduced turbo load so it lasts you 30 years instead of 15, then you may well be happy to invest the $300 for the catch can.
Cheers,
Greg
@@TheMusingGreg Thank you so much on a very detailed reply, much appreciated taking the time to help others who dont have the day to day experience of vehicle do's and don'ts and defiantly not wanting to make any expensive mistakes or mis-advised.... I have a ML Triton 3.2 (very similar to your set up) with a Provent and hose set to suit ready to put on, I installed an aftermarket Provent knock off and it did catch oil and seem to work well but took it out(was concerned about any chance a cheap knock off might not work as well and the pressure valve may fail and destroy my engine) and purchased a Provent complete set to suit, but never installed it, got spooked by the do, don't do out there. Your posts have been by far a real insight to the reality of a catch can's worth and impact...thank you mate, I'm glad I found and subscribed to your channel. you have a very real, un-bias and in depth look (both technical and practical) at what is good for certain vehicles i've seen so far.............. I look forward to bingeing on your posts , thanks again
BTW I'm now very focussed on installing the Provent , is it a good idea to install a EGR blank (with or without a 7mm hole) as well ?? have a good idea where to install it but not much info out there the right place/how to install it on a ML Triton 3.2 L
@@GMans-World Brilliant, glad to hear it was helpful mate, that's what I'm here for so I'm glad to hear the videos are hitting the mark! I think you have little to worry about with the Provent, the install is not difficult to do, just try to avoid kinked hoses. Good luck!
@@GMans-World Because I'm still in the final stages of testing the manifold build-up I've not done that yet so can't speak from experience.
Blanking off the EGR is technically illegal so be aware of that, but it's not hard to do. If you look right at the beginning of the video, you can see the spot you need to install the blank. Just to the left of the catch can lid and partly hidden behind the catch can is a pipe which looks like it's covered in alfoil, and to the left of that is a solid silver pipe welded onto a flange with two nuts. That's the EGR pipe which leads to the EGR valve, so you just undo those two nuts, pop the EGR blank in and put it back together.
However from what I understand the computer will have a bit of a tantrum if you don't have a hole in the EGR blank (and possibly also in the throttle butterfly plate), and with a hole it will not completely stop the problem. A better alternative from what I've heard is the resistor mod in the airflow meter, as this apparently keeps the EGR valve closed via the ECU without blanking off the EGR.
Good luck!
Thanks very interesting. I have bought the same. Unfortunately there is no room in the engine compartment. I have now clean the intake and the egr unit with heat exchanger. Volvo 2017. I will try ones more to make room for the occ. 😊
Good luck, I hope you fit it in!
@@TheMusingGreg thanks
Good work , if you get the Ryco RC200F filter element its interchangeable with the Provent 200 filter. Ryco testing proved their filter is more efficient at crankcase residue/ oil removal. Ryco have their own catch can system now. Own testing showed a Nissan NP300 with 2.3l single turbo engine makes around 80ml of oily residue in 10000kms.
Thanks for the tip!
@@TheMusingGreg Mate no matter which filter you use in the Pro vent 200 some oily residue still gets past the filter. Even with the Ryco RCC200F (Sorry typo in last comment this is correct Ryco part no) The "oily residue" consists of all sorts of nasty items best not remaining in the inside of the engine or in the crankcase oil or coating the inside of the inlet air tract. e.g. all related to piston ring pressure bypass or blowby - burnt lube oil from thin films on cylinder walls, soot, diesel fuel, water at times if engine temps are lower than normal due to short trips. Many claim the "oily residue" removal promotes valve face/valve seat wear- this is crap as OEM valve stem oil seals actually meter oil down the guides for proper valve guide/stem lubrication. This is not commonly known that this metering occurs- take a look at SKF as their valve stem seal literature talks a lot about adjusting valve guide oil flow, mostly directed at OEM's as this oil flow contributes to emissions.. Both petrol and diesel engines can digest their blowby but diesels sure pump out the catch can residue due to combustion pressures being higher. Hope this helps all who read it.
@@stevebliss3600 Thanks mate, I can't imagine why oily residue would help prevent valve seat / face wear. The stem maybe but as you say they are already lubricated by design. I think the biggest issue is the EGR soot getting mixed in with the oil in the manifold, but neither really belong there!
@@TheMusingGreg Spot on mate you are onto the issues for sure, why I said about valve seat wear is there are" experts" out there who do not understand lubrication principles of engines. Crankcase ventilation has been around since 70's so we live with it.
@@stevebliss3600 Haha cheers mate, yep there are many benefits to having pulled apart engines as a kid / younger bloke, it's so much easier to picture what's going on!
As an answer to one of your latter videos all the catch can is supposed to do is keep the oil away from the intake. The deposits on the intake manifold will remain as dry as the exhaust manifold
Thanks mate! Yes the catch can seems to do that well.
Interesting issues you had....I also have a 2012NW, and also just installed the exact same catch can at 220000km. Did not have either of the issues you mentioned with the kinked hose or leaking valve. I did find the hoses weren't the best fit though. Interestingly, I'm yet to really see anything that needs to be drained....I don't put many km's on mine though.
Cheers
Thanks for the input mate. How far have you gone on yours since you put the catch can in, and what sort of driving? I was towing a van for most of that time through WA and NT so a fair load in the engine.
@@TheMusingGreg I've only put around 5000km on mine since installing it and driving is low load. My engine also seems to have a lot less blowby compared to yours...not sure why, but similar kms overall.
@@Cowardlyduck Mine's been towing most of its life so that may be why. Although most people sound to have similar blowby to mine so I don't think mine is in poor condition. But check out ua-cam.com/video/aKb1Nwewy6A/v-deo.html and see how yours compares (if you haven't already). There's an example of a 20,000km Pajero's blowby at ua-cam.com/video/BXUnbrvVAwI/v-deo.html
Can you try using a second catch can but for the egr, and fill with granulated charcoal this will absorb the soot and noxs essentially cleaning the air before it go's back... I reckon a handful would last 5000miles but you find out man... Thanks for the videos :)
Interesting idea! It would have to be a metal catch can, not a plastic Provent 200, to stand the high temperatures of the exhaust system, and also the installation would be a much bigger hassle because the EGR circuit uses metal piping, not rubber hose like you can get away with for the EGR system. But if you could get it set up it might work. I'll keep it in mind!
Not sure if the Provent 200 Catch Can could handle the volume of blow-by comming from a Ford 2008 - 10 6.4 Super Duty. I'm curently working on a much larger canister an idea I got from a 1964 bus. Maybe the displacement of the larger can will be enough to slow down the vapors through the filtration system and ataching them selves to the various baffles and screens I have in place. Because I could see vapores comming out the exit port in the first prototype. It did trap a goodly amount of goo. The search for perfection goes on. But plugging up and narowing intake ports is a costly indever to clean
Agreed, you'd need something bigger I reckon
What about crankcase overpressure because the filter stops the gas from passing through easily?
It's a good consideration, but the Provent 200 has a pressure relief valve built into its filter so if the pressure starts to rise inside the catch can it will open and just bypass the catch can completely. I'm working on a separate test to look at exactly this, so stay tuned!
Any updates Greg ?? I've just purchased a blank with 7mm hole and have my catch can ready to install, but am waiting for your verdict ??? hope to hear for an update... hope all is well...thanks mate
Yep stand by mate I recorded the follow up a few days ago and should have it published in a week or so when I'm back in town (still in Broome at the moment). Let me know what you needed to know and I'll make sure I cover it if I captured the relevant info, as we discussed a few things last time!
I know you've found it but for anyone else reading this, the follow up is ua-cam.com/video/7mfqRSkopXY/v-deo.html
@@TheMusingGreg9:26
Did you do any more update video after this?
Yes mate there is this one ua-cam.com/video/7mfqRSkopXY/v-deo.html
I believe I have the perfect engine to do these CCV and EGR tests and Catch-Can tests. The problem is how do you stop (zero) emissions going back through the intake manifolds. This just starts the flour and water scenario all over again. Unless you vent the can itself back into the atmosphere or😢 the road. Not really the perfect scenario. I have a Ford F 350 08 6.4 diesel this thing has a huge blow-by from new and only gets worse in a relatively short time. Because of the EGR CCV and regeneration of the DPF system carbon build-up makes the life expectancy of this very expensive engine quite short. When diesel engines are expected to have a much longer life expectancy. However, I will not give up on my Catch-Can system, and as this very seldom if ever leaves the farm it is now completely deleted. As I understand the Government ( military ) etc. Never had these systems installed in the first place. A well-serviced running diesel engine will run surprisingly clean. More attention should be given to the cold air intake filter. The stock one just chokes the life right out of the engine and after-market filters get easily plugged up so attention to cleaning, washing, Or replacing these filters must be more routine. I could go into a rant about the much larger piston ring gap on the numbers 7 and 8 cylinders and the fuel being dumped past the rings and into the crankcase oil reservoir causing fuel wash to destroy
rings and bearings. But who would listen? Did I say I will never give up my Catch-Can?
Sounds like a plan!
But its not a diesel exhaust system now is it or is the EGR some how comming into play.
Yes EGR definitely is the issue I think
Catch cans create back pressure into the crankcase by not allowing the bypassing fumes to scape as quick as they are supposed to exit. This back pressure into the crankcase will worn the block seals and many inner components much faster. You might be extending the life of your valves at the expense of other inner components...
That can happen depending on the catch can design. But stay tuned as I've got something coming on exactly that!
@@TheMusingGreg Can't wait to watch it
a properly designed one that is maintained does not have this issue.
There are vacuum tests conducted on the provent and it shows a negligible level of restriction.
Same thought.. that blowby pressure needs to release as quick as possible...
To get a true result, at over 200,000 kilometers you need to have fitted new or reconditioned injectors prior to the before v after test. This may have been done and mentioned in the video, as I skipped thought it quickly.
If the injectors are old and tired that black buildup in the intake will reflect what's going out the tailpipe. And that engine sure seems to have a LOT of crankcase blow-by. In my Prado 120 with a Provent 200 and similar mileage, towing a 2 tonne caravan back and forth though the mountains for 8000 kilometers (engine working REAL hard) I drained about two tablespoons of oil.
Hi John, no I hadn't changed the injectors but that's not necessary on the Pajero like it would be for a Prado of that age. Pajeros don't seem to have the same issue of injector seals leaking and creating extra blowby.
I think the difference is just that the Pajero is reported to be a pretty heavy breather. I've got two other videos of Pajero oil fumes coming from the oil filler, one on a 20,000km engine and one on mine at about 230,000km and they were very similar.
Thanks for the comment!
@@TheMusingGreg My Prado 120 is pre common rail with what is know as the 1kz-te old school engine (fully mechanical injectors). The injector seal problems only stated when they changed to common rail type injectors.
At 200,000 km (and well before that) I was aware of excessive smoking under hard acceleration because looking in the rear view mirror at night you could clearly see it in the headlights of a close following car. Since changing the injectors, no more smoke/soot. If there is less smoke/soot coming out the exhaust pipe, has to be less going into the intake manifold via the EGR valve.
From that experience I reckon those who promote doing injectors and glow plugs (where applicable) at around every 100,000 K are on the right track. One glow plug was completely missing the tip.
Car definitely pulls harder when towing since doing the injectors, and that's important as the 1kz-te engine while pretty bullet proof aren't all that powerful.
Ah gotcha, I thought all 120's had the 1KZ-FTV engine with that injector issue (I learnt something today!). I have actually noticed exhaust smoke in the lights of following vehicles on my car too so maybe I'll look into injectors. That said, the heavy breathing aspect of the 4M41 engine in the Pajero still sounds to be normal so I'm not surprised at the amount of oil in the catch can; it's just the amount of black exhaust in question, which as you say would affect how much is going through the EGR circuit and into the manifold.
Cheers John!
@@TheMusingGreg Bought my 2004 Prado 120 just before they changed to common rail. At first I was disappointed, but that quickly changed as soon as I heard of the injector problems in the common rail engines.
I bought reconditioned injectors from Hi Tech Diesel in Adelaide. No problems, delivery was quick, and core deposit retuned without drama. Will use again.
Doing the injectors and glow plugs in the Prado 1kz-te was very straight forward for anyone of moderate mechanical ability, and good appropriate tools. I have a bit of a head start on most, being a qualified heavy vehicle mechanic (left the trade to do other things later in life).
@@johnwoodrow8769 Thanks for that John, very interesting. Mine are electronic injectors but I might look into it nonetheless. Cheers!
I believe yes
It certainly does something, but it's unfortunately not the whole solution to manifold build-up.
I’ve had Provent 200’s on a 2017 Ranger Wildtrak, 2020 79 Series and now a 2016 NX Pajero. They work. The Ranger and the 79 Series fill up like nobodies business. The Pajero was bought secondhand at 150k and it’s barely leaving anything. Now to be fair I installed a Munji EGR delete at the same time.. That might have something to do with it ;-)
That's interesting mate, I've heard the DI-D in the Pajero is a 'heavy breather' so I assume that must be compared to Toyota diesels, but your experience seems to be the opposite.
Interesting note about the EGR delete but I don't think that should have anything to do with it. The amount of engine blowby will be the same regardless of whether exhaust gas is getting back into the engine, and the blowby content itself is mainly crankcase oil fumes. Maybe your Pajero's had a very easy life or is simply very tight on its piston ring clearances. Either way I'd be happy with your situation! How much do you collect in say 10,000km?
Cheers,
Greg
How long does the filter last do you think
Good question Ross. They reckon 40,000km, but in correspondence with them it seemed a bit of an arbitrary figure based more on operating time in other industries which they then adapted to automotive. It isn't actually a 'filter' though, it's a coalescence medium which means it shouldn't block up like a filter does. One day I'll get to finish a video I started 6 months ago examining whether running it longer actually matters, or if it's just a money spinner for them! I can't say when I'll get it finished as I have more testing to do but make sure you subscribe and notify if you'd be interested in more info on that when it comes.
No catch can on the market stops 100% of the oil vapor, some always goes through. The only way to stop the carbon buildup is by doing an egr block
Yep I think you're right
Save the planet or save the truck..... I chose the truck.🤔☺☺
👍👍
Interesting perspectives Kevin, thanks for sharing! I don't think the Prevent 200 would handle that much blowby but they may have a larger size that would suit your vehicle. Or as you say make your own but the Provent catch cans do work pretty well and have a valve to prevent a build-up of crankcase pressure in case the filter blocks, which you might miss if you made your own. Good luck in the research!
Catch update? How is everything going?
This is 40000 km on ua-cam.com/video/7mfqRSkopXY/v-deo.html. I have it disconnected at the moment to gunk up the manifold and test another manifold cleaning product, and then it'll be going back on. Stay tuned!
Unless you remove or block your egr valve, you will always have carbon soot in the inlet manifold. It pumps hot recirculated unburnt fuel & Air back into the inlet manifold to lower emissions. The only way Is Catch can and full egr removal.
Yes that's what I'm finding. Stay tuned!
It’s enough to have the catch can. Look at how the exhaust manifold is. A thin layer of carbon and nothing more
@@gheorghinacov6008 that will be from your PCV valve which is attached to your inlet manifold for crank pressure. Unless you block off EGR and install a catch can you will always have Carbon build up as the EGR valve is Circulating unburnt fuel back into your manifold Common sense! Your Catch can just catches blow by off your PCV valve or crank case Breather. Again common sense
@@MONEYLAB001
You know that an oil catch can is mounted in between OEM PCV and turbo intake, right? Oil remains in the catch can, EGR deposits remain dry and thin, as in the exhaust manifold. No need to delete the EGR unless you want a shiny intake. Common sense
@@gheorghinacov6008 they do not Remain Thin, and they do not Remain Dry Because it's unburnt fuel which has partly been combusted which is now mixed with oil being recycled into your inlet manifold..... use your brain please! Also a catch can, can be plumbed back into inlet to help crank case pressure or be left to vent to atmosphere it doesn't matter. But your EGR valve is still putting unburnt fuel into your inlet manifold which is acting like an exhaust please have some Common sense!
Good stuff thanks 😉😊. Mine has over 300.00 now . Pajero not catch can ? 🤣🤣
Cheers Peter, haha a 300,000k catch can now that would be a thing!
@@TheMusingGreg yes a bit HIGH but I think it has been driven well ????? . It goes like stink still ? . Not sure if it has had a re map ? . But goes noticeably better than my mates 2010 model same spec Pajero . I wanted a good base for a project vehicle ?? . It wad a country vehicle so I assume it didn't do any short trips ??? .
@@ThePopypete Nothing wrong with 300,000km, I've heard they'll easily do half a million if looked after and that's probably low too. You might have had a remap, if you check my first liqui-moly video I did a 0-100 at the beginning (with 5 people and some cargo mind you) in case you wanted to compare.
@@TheMusingGreg I will do a check .😉🤗🤭
The problem is the EGR system, if they wanted to cool an engine, they could of used a simple water spray, instead of injecting exhaust gases back into your engine.
Yeah they could, but that's another reservoir to fill up much like the modern urea tanks. EGR is simpler and probably cheaper for the manufacturer to make. Unfortunately the cheapest way to get the job done often wins out, because we as consumers reward those manufacturers by buying their cheaper product.
@@TheMusingGreg At the cost of the engine, it was only last year I had to rebuild the Ford ranger 3.2L diesel, $18K later it was working again, manufactures don't care about what we have to do to maintain their machines, a water bottle and a spray pump may have been an extra $300, do you think this might of saved my vehicle? I got rid of that vehicle, I have another 2.3L in a Renault Master van, and I'm more impressed with this engine than the Ford. Cheers, have a good one
Cheers mate look it's possible, depends on what caused the failure. I 100% agree I'd prefer my engine to run without EGR think it would be better for it, but at the same time if it was a consistent cause of failure there'd be a much wider trend of failure.
Anyone thinking about this be super cautious of the level in the can.. if it ever fills your pcv valve looses suction and your cam shaft , crank shaft and oil pan seals get pressurized... gets really expensive fast.. 😫
Good point Ashoud. Mann+Hummel recommends emptying the catch can every 5000km, and in that time it's very unlikely the catch can would be full unless the engine's absolutely shot. The times I did mine the drain hose wasn't full up, let alone the catch can itself. So if it's emptied regularly you'd be fine.
@@TheMusingGreg it fills faster in areas with high humidity. I had mines fill up very fast and my seals all blew out . I had no compression issues with the pistons. Engine runs better without it after all the repairs I had to do.. I'm not putting this on any of my engines.. ever
@@Ashoud_Anobetah Yep high humidity would contribute to it but I'm surprised yours filled up that quickly. How long was the drain hose attached to the bottom of your catch can?
However you're right that if it did for whatever reason start filling into the catch can it could cause those problems. I guess the lesson here is that if you install one, check how full the drain hose is regularly and make sure it's not filling into the catch can. Then drain it regularly up until after the filter is saturated with oil and measure how much you're getting out so you know how often to drain it from then onwards. Thanks for the input!
Wouldn't this come from your engine oil? Wouldn't you now need more oil since you have taken it out?
Hi Richard, yes it is partly oil fumes from the crankcase as well as some diesel exhaust and water vapour mixed in with it. But you don't need to top up the oil any more than usual, because it wouldn't normally get back into the sump anyway. Normally this stuff would get sucked back into the combustion chamber and burned out the tailpipe.
Do an ECO fumes test now on the car, it should be a lot better now.
What do you mean by an ECO fumes test?
@@TheMusingGreg ECO test on the exhaust. Maybe it pollutes less now.
Oh right. I don't have an easy way of doing that but I'm not sure it would be too much different. The air-fuel mixture will still be the same, it's only manifold pressure which will be a bit different and that shouldn't affect emissions.
@@TheMusingGreg I think it should benefit emissions a little bit. Need to clean the DPF filter if it has one tho.
You might be right, but as I said a partially blocked manifold doesn't change the air: fuel mixture so I can't see how it would help. DPF's do need regular cleaning, especially after cleaning the manifold with a solvent, but my vehicle doesn't have one
Need to block off the egr valve to get rid of the soot.
Yes that's something I'll be looking at once I've verified whether the soot continues to build up. For the Pajero there are equivalent mods which don't involve physically blocking the EGR valve as that messes up the ECU.
Agree. After I got my inlet manifold professionally cleaned I installed a can and did the resistor mod to keep the egr closed.
Yep that's the mod I intend to do. But in the interests of research I'm delaying it for a bit to find the answer to this question first.
@@TheMusingGreg i look forward to your research Greg
@@GMans-World Cheers!
It’s the soot that’s the problem and less of the oil .. dry soot will still damage seals!
Probably right. Although the oil will keep it slippery and less abrasive so maybe it's better to only use it if the EGR is already out of the picture.
I'm always of the opinion if the car needed a catch can it would have came with one. I'm not convinced these are needed, but great video anyway.
I initially thought so too, but remember a car isn't everything the engineers might have wanted, it has to meet financial and marketing targets too. It's common for a product to not be exactly what the engineers want as it would be too expensive. From my experience, I don't think catch cans fit this category, but I'm still of the view that just because it doesn't come with it doesn't mean it can't benefit someone who's willing to spend the extra money.
@@TheMusingGreg I get that, but the fact that not a single car comes with one suggests to me it's probably not needed and a waste of money.
@@aleks0001that’s stupid way of thinking buddy, exactly the type of customer car manufacturers are after.
@@Mistabushi so the fact a single car doesnt have a catch can is a stupid way of thinking. But buying products based on nothing more then marketing claims with zero proof if they even work is smart. You keep being so smart and buying crap that you dont even need.
No catch can on my 2004 Hilux 3.0 TD…I just did a EGR and intake manifold clean out then did an EGR delete using the metal blocking plate with a hole through the centre immediately after….that was at 217000kms…now its done 283000km….no dash light.. no overheating issues nothing….gone from Syd to Perth and back 3 times…on one trip back to Sydney DID NOT turn the engine off the whole time even when at the servo…just switched drivers…if i was going to have an overheat or blowback issue its there….NOTHING….just sayin!
Thanks for sharing Russell. Yeah I wouldn't expect any overheating issues from an EGR block. It would be interesting to know how much manifold gunk it's preventing.
remove & replace your intercooler if it sits lower than your turbo and intake manifold.....being the lowest part in the intake system, it will have collected oil before you fitted the catch can.....i will bet that when you take it out, you will get a litre or more of oil out of it.....
Yeah i was expecting that she have that coming in a future video, but actually found it was pretty clean.
Powder dry is not good, dry soot docent seem good further down in the engine. A regular spray with cleaner and oil changes would work better I think
Not sure about that Richard. You could be right, but I think I'd rather have a dry smooth sooty surface on the intake than one which gets sticky and blocks up over time. I found the Liqui-Moly product didn't do too well with dissolving soot, so using that during oil changes probably isn't going to help much anyway. What's the problem with a thin layer of powder dry soot on the inlet manifold, valves and intake ports? Once you get to the combustion chamber you'll have engine oil in the cylinder to keep it moist.
You have to plug the inlet back into the intake from the outlet of the provent and reroute it to the intake airbox before the filter. There is less suction before the filter and also it won't affect your vacuum because you plug the inlet where it usually connects back to the intake system.
EGR and crankcase ventilation throws off the air/fuel ratio because they enter the engine after the mass airflow sensor so if you reroute it to the airbox BEFORE the filter and Maf sensor, you will have an overall smoother and more efficient, clean burning engine. Deleting that whole system will put you more into savings and out of environmental hypocrisy which is based on ignorance.
OK I get your point; I guess if you have a catch can installed then that won't be so much of a problem since most of the oil fumes will have been taken out.
However as far as PCV throwing out the air/fuel ratio, yes in theory that's correct but the blowby is plumbed in after the intake by design from factory, so I would imagine this is already taken into account by the ECU even if it's not getting measured by the air flow meter. There's still the MAP sensor in the manifold which the ECU can draw data from to work out the air volume (fresh + blowby) actually passing through the system. Have you personally and quantifiably seen a smoother and more efficient engine by replumbing like this?
1. It takes energy to move fluids through hoses by adding catch can you've adjusted the crankcase pressure by adding friction which causes crankcase pressure to increase which causes more oil to blow out of the engine. The catch can is causing more oil to blow out of the engine and damage the engines oil seals and enter the piston rings. Your engine is now consuming more oil through the piston rings. E.g. the oil level after X9999 miles will be lower with the catch can installed and detonation resistance has decreased and the piston rings will collect more oil eventually light hydrocarbon chains leave and the oil control rings stick causing excessive cylinder wear and eventual blow-by and failure.
2. You cannot perform a test like this without measuring crankcase pressure and comparing idle, cruise, wot crankcase pressure with or without modifications and this includes the air filter which is a key component of PCV system pressure control feature. Nobody seems to understand this when you adjust the filter you are changing the PCV system.
Catch cans can ruin the engine over time if you do not measure and set the crankcase pressure properly when modifying an engine. The same can be said for air filters because of the same reason. You measure tire pressure, fuel pressure, oil pressure, transmission pressure, coolant pressure, boost pressure, etc... but neglect the crankcase pressure then you are blind to oil system related inclusion carbon cycling failure.
It's interesting you make this observation, because I'm planning on doing a crankcase pressure test very similar to what you've described in an upcoming video. I would say though that while technically you're correct, my current feeling is that I don't think the extra hosing would add very much pressure to the crankcase, and not enough to create any appreciable difference. But time will tell, so stay tuned!
If you are testing pressure difference you must measure at the wide open throttle side aka the venting side of the crankcase where kinetic energy is limited. At wide open throttle appreciable length of hose will absolutely have an influence based on air filter pressure drop and crankcase blow-by mass plus hose friction. And keep in mind as crankcase pressure increases the blow-by will also increase, so measuring pressure with a given ring performance is not linear with respect to differences in pressure e.g. there are low pressure crankcase values which maximize ring performance and allow the OEM Pistons to drain properly. In other words the piston cannot drain oil properly if crankcase pressure is balancing inertial ring force with cylinder wall friction force which is trying to pull the ring up, unseat depending on ring tension. Crankcase pressure at the end of power stroke rising below the piston forces the ring to unseat and now is blowing by, accumulating oil in the ring pack, then people complain they don't drain properly and get stuck seized with carbon and ruin the engine. Its not the ring design guys its the crankcase pressure unseating the ring seal at the end of power stroke causing excess blow-by. @@TheMusingGreg
@@Wabits Cool thanks I'll make sure I test those conditions when I come to do the testing. Cheers!
I think 2 catch cans is better than one.
It probably would be but that's an extra $300 and more space in the engine bay. One certainly deals with almost all the oil residue, so I wouldn't think the cost would be worth it for the small amount of vapour which might get by the first one. Maybe a different story if you're talking about a cheap catch can that doesn't collect as much, but then you have more chance of back pressure which could cause oil leaks in your engine.
Like a lasagne hah
Weird sauce though hey?! 😄
Loophole why return the hot air back to your engine??.... you dont. thats the loophole. then zero oil moist will come back to your manifold.
You're right, but it also sends all that oil mist out to atmosphere which is why it's illegal to do it. A billion cars blowing oil fumes isn't great
$300+ for a crappy piece of injection moulded plastic.....shameful!
I do agree it looks expensive for what it is. Note however that it comes with a $80 filter which itself has a pressure relief valve and spring built into the bottom, so it's a part of some complexity. To do that and get it all patented would have been pretty costly. I'm not saying that makes it worth $300, but it is more than just plastic.
But this is one of best which have least flow resistance that can release pressure of crank case. According to experiment on yt clip I saw
Get moshimoto.
EGR the cause
Yes the EGR is part of the problem, although as you'll see in a soon-to-be-released video, getting rid of the oil vapour stops the build-up and just leaves you with dry black soot which isn't as clogging as the oily residue. Stay subscribed so you don't miss it when it comes!
If I haven't done that yet to install the oil catch can... Right now I prefer it to block the egr and the breather blows it out into the air... as a result all channels stay clean.
@@takesihultra2820 Yep you can do that, but it's illegal so you're in strife if you get caught with it like that. Also on the Pajero, an EGR block throws a fault code unless you also modify the throttle body. It's not great for the environment to blow all those oil fumes out to atmosphere. That's why Positive Crankcase Ventilation was invented, and of course it's a pain on diesels with EGR added into the mix, but a catch can removes that residue without adding to air pollution.
Great video! Thank you! I was going to install a catch can until I saw the following video and now I'm confused 🤔ua-cam.com/video/hDx09voTlbw/v-deo.html
Unfortunately there are no great and legal solutions. If I was starting again I would not install a catch can. If it was a short term car I would leave it as factory. If it was a long term car I would pull the manifold off every 100,000km for a full clean. If I was willing to be illegal I would stop the EGR circuit somehow to get rid of the carbon as that's the hardest issue to deal with. To date, i've not found any cleaning products to be very effective at maintenance although they're minimally useful, but not enough to figure as a key factor in manifold maintenance.
@@TheMusingGreg Thanks for the info! Yea, it seems like a solution-less issue
I'm still hopeful there may be some good product out there but so far I've not found something that works well enough to recommend.
@@TheMusingGreg What I'm thinking is it would have to be a catch can with a very short tube no longer than the factory one
Carbon must be filtered not the oil. Wrong approach
Catch cans like these are advertised as being a fix to manifold gunk which is what I'm addressing. My findings so far support what you've said, but I wanted to have gard data to support it, not just theories.
catch cans are the biggest waste of money and don't do anything
It depends what job you want it to do. It definitely pulls oil out of the intake air, that much is clearly demonstrated. However it's not going to completely stop manifold build-up on its own, so if you bought one purely for that purpose which is often how they're advertised then yes it's not going to be money well spent.
edit: "most" catch cans....the Mann and Hummel Provent series are proper devices. The China copies don't do much in comparison to be sure....and all the empty cans do stuff all.
put a provent 200 on my truck when i put a new intercooler on still get oil vapour after the can
That's odd, where were you seeing it? It could have been oil elsewhere in the plumbing getting blown through perhaps?