Thanks dude, your the only one that has shown me that I can set up jumper wires to test the combinations before I solder anything. I simply hadn't thought of that. cheers
Of all the Treble Bleed videos that I have seen, Yours seems the Most Natural as-far-as " Smooth Volume Taper " and Usable Range. I'm looking to do this to my Suhr with Lollar Dirty Blonde's. Great Information. Thanks.
This is so cool! Nice video with quick comparisson I would've liked to hear the combination of both Kinman and Duncan too But adding the jumpers directly to the guitar is clever, i think i'll try it myself
I agree with your updated comment. The last 75 years of electric guitar, there should be a zillion mods to choose from, but only a handful because those who experiment and explore, are mocked because Leo said so.
Thanks for putting this video out there. It helped guide me to decide to experiment on my own rig before jumping into what one guy might say is the right way.
Thanks... this saved me a lot of time. I like the Kinman circuit best...even though I have completely different pickups, it gives me a starting point that will be ahead of where I would be otherwise.
The Kinman and Duncan treble bleed mods actually call for resistor values of 100 to 270 kilo ohms (100,000 to 270,000 ohms). You're using 100 to 270 ohms. The resistor is mainly there to adjust the taper of the volume pot. When you put a treble bleed capacitor in the circuit it alters the taper of the volume pot. On some guitars it makes the volume pot practically useless. The resistor is intended to bump the taper back into stock/usable territory. With a resistor value that low you can likely eliminate it if you're happy with the volume pot taper and the tone of the guitar. It should have no effect on the sound.
This is super helpful. Now I'm going to have to pull out my resistors and report back as to their actual values (based on the color codes). It was certainly my intention to get KOhms resistors. We'll have to see . . .
You're absolutely right. That makes me wonder: If that's the case, then how would this have been affecting the sound so much (i.e., between Kinman and Duncan)?
Drum & Strum I see what could be making u get such a strange jump a differ sweep. Could very well be your using a .22 cap for your tone pots right. As that’s the norm these days for single. Which then confusing the treble bleed with the high range .22 on single coil it’d now finding the high then dropping sharper. I have found from old school techs that the .47 cap on your single as they are already a brighter sound and using a .22 on humbuckers as you do want to give a good range but really want to keep the thicker sound. So by using the .47 or .44 for you tone caps the higher bright single coils don’t have that ice pick if not using some pedal combo. Then your treble bleed with right range will be more consistent with the sweep. This is subject to your taste and set up. But don’t just follow what Fender buy In bulk and even unless artists set in even use the .22 thing on single in customshop. But take Eric Clapton famous women tone or brown tone. Achieved by using a heavier than .44/47 to a mid 50 for caps this allowed him to drop that tone sound with the gain up yet had a small treble bleed attached also. So he could lower tone knob dark then adjust volume around. Hence people been chasing it with pedals and amps combo for yrs. so if got time just see. As you pick ups are slightly hot from memory. So check your tone pots cap. Break tradition and try a .47 then try a treble bleed but also use your time knobs man. IF 10 on the tone I’d best you like well allow more 10 to darker 1 but the level your volume sweep. Use your pedals. But I bet you get a huge my variety especially with a clean amp to test as adding any effects is tranfering your colour and a fuzz or OD hugely then you throw a compressor and delay. Can each throw a difference to your pick up and tone setup. This is really wild but find the cleanest sound you can from your amp then use your volume to sweep to its maximum on the edge of even tiny dirt. Now engage a good compressor sustain wise not volume boost so in sync, hopefully you will be thinking nice now add a say real transparent overdrive not a distortion say a boss blues driver tone 12 gain 1-2 volume sync. Sounding strange as we still totally clean but things should be rich no high or low String pitch then I see u have a few pedals if u have a tremolo turn the trem 1, volume sync or 1 notch low you can do this with delay or reverb but little more fiddle. Now on a nice tube using your volume and tone. You should have a almost clean thick jazz or Blues with no break up that will just sound sweet as. This is what I’m trying to get across that testing especially for utube after a node and then halfway saying ohh that’s my clean amp but 5 min later yes I’m using a Hendrix fuzz face. You are robbing your self as any preamp adjustment is affecting your tonal palate. That’s why an OD and compressor with a tremolo pedal to get a real nice sustaining full string pitch with a fullness sounds strange. But if you did it and adjusted to keep it clean as I’ve not used your amp or no tubes or watts. But the cleanest jazz players loved the 100w tube amps as they could lower there volume to not break up have huge headroom then using a 335 style big semi open. Could get sounds and rhythm in huge clubs. So it’s crappy day here and I just thought I could pass on some stuff. Not to tell you to change or do anything. Your sound and tone is important to you. But this may show you the guitar the amp the caps the headroom. All are things that can either hide your mistakes or make it so clear a fantastic that you will quickly find any lazy spots and can over a week of saving your say private honest practices on flaws. Try it few wks your crunch distortion of it will pick up in as they say with the greats it’s there fingers. Yes as especially the older ones had no choice but to learn crystal clear. Then pass that on to there best understudies that they found that would listen. Clapton Hendrix BB king SRV EVH and so on all are masters. But you’ll always find they studied to death on the old original players. Which where often just as clean as they could be. Until there songs allowed then to start breaking up the tubes. Love to hear how things go. Also if your going to update your treble bleed video. As great approach but even now there be some confused people out there. As they may note read the comments like you can’t on the new tv utube. So they don’t know you made a mistake with the numbers and the parts. Probably still out there now going to the stores and buying what they have a paused utube photo on there mobile phones these days. Going into electric shops saying see this i want these see the colours they have to match. So be cool 😎 stay strong play hard. As it’s all what you hear. So as long as you not going to catch on fire or blow something up. There are some great choices to do. But remember to be honest with your self test your pedals later. But use your tone knobs and volume knob shape your guitar then add your pedals to achieve you goal. But buy nice guitars with good woods and nuts and bits then turn everything to max and dance around a pedal board but get the same thing. Be out here Shit no one would say yeah put your uni vibe in front of your OD and fuzz or cry baby in spots. Hendrix did it all the time depending on the songs the place and how he felt. Yet we not be using half the things if he didn’t break away from the normal. Cheer from Australia 🇦🇺🤟
I've been researching this subject as well, there is no "correct" value. If it does what you want it to then it's correct. Don't listen to naysayers, thanks for posting this video. I've only tried the Duncan Mod.
When you turn a volume pot down, you add a lot of resistance in series to your pickup signal (and at the same time you reduce the resistance to ground, but we can omit this here). High frequencies are blocked by resistance, while they travel easily across capacitors. Bass frequency behave the opposite way: they are blocked by small capacitors, while they travel easily across small to medium resistors. The cap in a treble bleed allows high frequencies to bypass that big resistance of the closing volume pot, and the bigger that cap is, the more those high frequencies will also be mid and then even bass frequencies: if you put a 10uF cap, it would allow about ALL frequencies to pass, so it will seem closing your volume doesn't change anything (not a clever mod...). Sometimes too little the treble bleed capacitor, too little highs are allowed to pass to be really useful, but too big that capacitor and the volume pot becomes a "bass roll off" knob, because both high and mid frequencies will pass through that cap even with your volume at 1, and only bass will eventually be blocked. So in the Kinman style, a resistor is also added in series with the capacitor, to "tame" the effect of what would be too big a capacitor to be used alone. In the Duncan style, instead, the resistor is added in parallel with the cap to allow mids-bass as well, to bleed through the closing volume pot. With the latter, if you use a big cap (the 0.022uF cap you picked is too big for any treble bleed circuit) and a small resistor (the 270 ohm, not Kohm, you used), you will allow about all your signal to pass through the closing volume pot until you reach very low volume settings, as you unintentionally showed in your video.
shredgd5 Excellent information. I’m thinking of taking down the video altogether for the ohms/Kohms inaccuracy. It isn’t very scientific, and it isn’t fair to the other types of designs, which may be more viable than I let on. I would love to use your information and make a better video at some point.
Using the Duncan mod is in fact placing a resistor parallel over the volume pot. So the logaritme of the pot is disturbed and it is now become a semi lineair pot. That makes the behavior different for our logaritmic ears. The Kinman is way better in this way.
Nice explanation, mate. Now I'm very confident I can do that mod on my guitar (Duncan TB is easy enough and give the best result for my ears). Now I just need to know how it actually sounds, because I'm hearing your pick on the strings more than the actual sound of the guitar. Maybe line recording could solve it? (also, why most of the best videos out there, with easy to understand info and well explained, usually has the worst sound capture/recording?)
@@blackpanther256, yeah, it’s so hard to make videos at all, but getting perfect sound and lighting adds orders of magnitude to the complexity. I’m just glad my son didn’t drop the camera! 😅
Yes my man you have just just proven my problem is with having the cap and resister in parallel is doing exactly like you say, making not a lot happen until you get to 2-3 on volume
Just be sure to take what I said with a grain of salt. As you will see in the video description, I completely botched my cap/resistor values! (Maybe you botched your values, too!)
Thanx. Also try 50s wiring, no need for a treble bleed. Cleans up even nicer. Makes volume and tone pot interactive so you can really dial in your tone. Although on Fender type single coils some say its too bright.
Hello again Drum&Strum, I finally have the parts in. At first I couldn't remember to which terminals you connected to, but then I re-watched your vid and saw that you did the Kinman mod correctly. Some folks fail to identify the caps Neg & Pos leads and I've seen where they solder the (+) lead of cap to the (-) Neg of pot, and (-) Neg to either #1 or 2 terms on pot. Rule of thumb is, that when you have the writing on the cap facing you, the left lead is Neg & right Pos. Aside from this you'd need electrical equipt to know. Well, I also have to replace my strings and set intonation after the kinman mod. Will post my results when I'm done. Cheers.
Well, Counselor, I must say I got great bright tone, which is a difference. However, I'm not sure if its bcuz of the spec number variation, but the vol level tends to remain the same from 2-1/2 up. And that I can't live with..lol. I guess it will take some more tinkering into the other tone pots before I get what I want. For now I'll remove it and research some more. Objection sustained.
Drum & Strum, yes single coil humbucker.. 3 pickups like yours. I also tried pos w/resis lead to #2 term and neg lead to top of pot and but the tone was much bassier. So I now moved pos lead to #1 term and kept neg lead on pot. However I haven't tried it bcuz I ran into a snag. My new strings (fender 250XS .08ga. It's all I use) I got "buzzing". So looked closer and discovered the nuts slots are pretty worn in. This obviously was going to turn into another project. So I cut same slot size pieces of the old strings and super glued them in, thereby raising the tolerance, and it worked perfectly. However I will opt to buy a new Fender Strat maple neck next month to replace this rose wood one. The frets do have indentation wear from the strings. But I am going to put back the pickgaurd and test the mod again... And that's the way the cookie crumbles...
Drum&Strum, my last attempt had no effect at all. However, I was amazed, the sound I got for the orig mod first attempt was VERY nice. I tell you it sounded Awesome. But what happened was that as I turned vol up. the vol showed no sound until it reached about 2 & half, then it just came on as a set vol level. It didn't matter if I turned it 3 - 10, the vol was the same. And lowering it was just the opposite. Once it reached 2-1/2 it lowered low until I turned it to 0. And at worship services I raise and lower the vol to compensate So I am now wondering what type vol pot I have, Linear or Taper. And why does the vol stays set. Also, could it be the type or value of the Cap and or resistor. Or perhaps leave the resistor off.. I feel, to get this down packed, I'd have to do extensive trials. Plus pull that pot out and test resistance bcuz the only thing I know is that its a 500K fender mini pot. Be in touch.
You’re using cap values entirely too high for the duncan mod. That’s why it got too dark. More common Duncan mod values would be for example a 1000pf (1.0nf/.001uf) cap and 100 or 150k resistor in parallel. The two caps you were using .022uf (22nf) and .047uf (47nf) are good values for tone pot caps but treble bleed cap values are tiny in comparison. Ones you were using were like 20-40x too large for a duncan type treble bleed.
Yup, I know. The values are a disaster, as I pointed out in the video description, which I all but beg everyone to read. (I really should redo this video!)
Thanks for the demo! Was just thinking if doing this mod! I just watched another video the other day that said the simple bleed was best for Telecasters. I guess they know something at the factory! I'm gonna try that one on my Tele and I think I'll try the combo. you found works, for my Strat. I liked the way it sounds! Thanks again!☺
Thanks for your post. Lot to think about. I have a prewired Strat pick guard from Lindy Fralin, with a Duncan Treble Bleed (their standard option). I got a King Tone Mini Fuzz that is way to bright with the Treble Bleed when rolled back. I had a push/pull pot installed to be able to disengage the Treble Bleed. I’m not that handy, or patient, but the Kinman mod seems provide the tone I’d like to be getting from my Treble bleed? Sounded more natural. I also have a Tele Deluxe with P-90’s and a Duncan TB...that isn’t working for me?
Good experiment. Nicely done. I liked both the Duncan and Kinman mod before used the compressor. With the compressor, the Kinman won hands down. The only thing I think worth mention is that the resistor values are in kohms, not ohms. But anyways, thanks for the nice demonstration.
That's precisely the upside. As you roll the volume down on a non-modded guitar, lows don't go quiet as quickly as the highs do. This mod is intended to make the highs get quiet more slowly, so they match the same rate as the lows. Of course, it's impossible to get it perfect through the entire volume sweep, but one can get it pretty darned close.
@@DrumStrum More often than not one just has to decide which one wants more, the highs or the lows. Many people try the Bleed then go back when they find it's taking too much away down low. Not a fix-all thing. Personal choice in the end. Please don't get me wrong. I thought it was worth pointing out that it's not for everyone. Yours is an excellent video and I may even have a candidate to try a Bleed Mod on myself. Of course it Would have to be a semi wouldn't it ... Might try it 1st on a similar guitar (pickup-wise) with easier access ... I'd be using your trailing lead idea to try for the optimum natch of values.
VERY good video, but please correct the resistor values: they are in in K Ohms, NOT Ohms! With a log volume pot, the best value for me is a 102 cap in parallel with a 270K resistor. With a linear volume pot I usually stick with just the 102 cap alone. Cheers !!!!!
I finally understand what treble bleed is. This is so cool thx! But I'm just going to wire my les paul in 50s style, that should do the trick as well I heard.
Just got a '58 reissue LP, and with the '50s-style wiring, it's so powerful. I absolutely love how the tone and volume interact. I need to try it on my Epi . . .
Of course - use right value resistors (k-ohms, no ohms!). It will provide not so bright "Kinman" tone and much brighter "Duncan" tone. All it is not so simple... because depends on pickup's impedance, Volume pot's value and taper, Tone pot's value, Tone cap's value, guitar's parasitic shunting capacitance (including cable), and next input's impedance. This circuit is not only changing the resulting tone at reduced positions of the Volume pot, but Volume pot's value (pickup's shunting load) and pot's taper parameters (taper's rotating feel) too. And all variations and component combinations of different "treble bleed" circuits are affecting it differently. I prefer Kinman's circuit for 250...300k pots, but using 500k or 1m pots it must be recalculated.
ROOKTABULA, I bought this Carvin amp about 20 years ago, and it’s pretty great! Not a music store. Just my house-technically, my dining room. (My wife is awesome.)
@@lionelb.1482 Of Course, but that's not what he used. His paper note shows just ohms, not K ohms, and if you pause the video at 3:20 you'll see the 3rd band of each resistor is brown (one zero), not yellow (four zeros).
With the pot's shaft pointing towards you with the solder lugs hanging down the lugs are from left to right lug 1, lug 2 and lug 3. On a volume pot lug 1 always gets grounded. What value is your volume pot? Typically the resistor value used for a treble bleed circuit is half of the volume pot's value. A 270K seems awfully high if you're using a 250K volume pot.
Hello Drum&Strum, very good 'show n tell" of the sound tone difference. And now for a silly question, I am under the impression this cap/resis mod is soldered onto the volume pot, for this tone mod. But I have also seen where the 2 tone pots also have that Sprague orange drop cap. Can this be done and if so, what might be the benefit? I am currently waiting on a sprague orange drop .047mf 100v cap and a 470ohms resistor in the mail, to perform the "Kinman" mod onto the vol pot. But i was considering the middle pot for a .022mf ww/ 270 resis mod as well. What can you tell me? Thx. John
J P, I am a lawyer, not an electrical engineer, so I’m afraid I am not going to be much help! I am not aware of a way to do a treble bleed on a volume pot, but I suppose the principle is the same. I hope someone with more knowledge can weigh in!
Ohh, my mistake, that's true, you did state your'e a lawyer not a elect-tech. You know, it's that you were so well into the topic, that man, you could pass as one..lol. Okay, so to confirm, this mod you did goes on the volume pot, correct? I look the other stuff up. Thanks all the same.
The tone pot capacitor uses a much larger capacitance value (.022 or .047 uF) than the treble bleed (around .001 or .002 uF). The tone pot is sending high frequencies to ground, using a 250k or 500k variable resistor in series to reduce the amount of treble being dumped to ground. The treble bleed circuit allows some of the treble portion of the signal to bypass the volume control on its way to the output jack. The treble bleed resistor is roughly 100k to 300k ohms. That k means kilo, so multiply by 1000. That is, 100,000 ohms to 300,000 ohms.
Also a code of 102 on the capacitor is actually a .001 and not .0012...Not that it makes a difference..Kinman mod is a 130k in series with a .0012 cap.I prefer his mod to Duncan's.
Hi, in the Kinman version, you say the capacitor is what affects the frequency and the resistor is how much it is allowed back into the output jack... does this mean the greater the value of capacitor, the higher the frequency that is bled back into the output? Or is it the greater the value, less treble is bled?
I'm a lawyer, not an electrical engineer, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt, but when I experimented, it seemed to me that that the higher the capacitor value, the more bass was let back in. And the higher the resistor value, the less overall effect there was. I'm sure someone trained in electrical engineering would love to slap me upside the head, but that's just what I subjectively came to believe in my case. Again, the point of this video is to demonstrate that experimenting is the key. Just as one would definitely twist dials on any pedal they put between their guitar and their amp, they should "twist the dials" on the capacitor and resistor they use for a treble bleed circuit. I don't have any way of knowing whether the values I chose for my components were 1-10 on the "dials" or if they were 5-6. I'm sure with a wider range of components (and 5 years of electrical engineering training!), I would be better able to answer your original question. I hope this helps.
Should have just wired it 50's style. Would have simpler. With a Vintage taper volume pot the entire volume sweep would be usable and you won't loos any clarity.
Potentiometers have a ring in the middle and a second ring outside it with a graphite taper with a set resistance and a brass or gold plated sweep attached to the knob. The volume pot works by creating a higher resistance the farther the sweep is turned away from ground towards the output lug, When it gets closer to ground it sends the signal to ground effectively cutting out the sound. When its near the output lug you get almost full sound, i say almost because some sound still gets thrown to ground because the taper doesn't completely block sound from going to ground when volume is set to 10. you can't add sound back into a circuit, you can only prevent sound from bleeding to ground. contrary to what some forums say regarding pot impedance not mattering with regards to tone, you can't short out the impedance when volume is set to 10 because the potentiometer will always be connected to ground at a set resistance no matter the potentiometer chosen.
I have a Fender USA HH strat with the S1 the pickups are just very bassy loud and dull sounding I'm planning to get a treble bleed mod tomorrow, so biting the bullet I think I will get the Kinman mod hopefully the Guitar center tech will know what I'm talking about when I ask him to do the mod
I the tech doesn’t know what it is, then I would take it somewhere else! Not sure whether you will see as dramatic of a result on humbuckers, but it’s worth a try. Good luck!
I had the treble bleed done to my guitar before and purchase a guitar that was already came factory modded I think it was regular TB I didn't know there were 3 choices you can have I thought it was the capacitors you pick and the tech who did the mod before didn't go into details about which was the best, The Fender HH strat sounds very dull and bassy I think it'd be cheaper upgrade from replacing pickups. The one I had treble bleed done was on a dimarzio Ibanez guitar and it was bright AH but it wasn't bad with the regular TB mod so I think I will try it and find out with the Fender USA HH strat with the Kinman treble mod, there's a new Fender commercial that has their own version paper oil treble bleed mod and it sounds a bit better
The .022 and .047 values are tone caps values...I think you meant .0022 and .0047 for the treble bleed values....Big difference there and it may mess someone up...Good video otherwise.
All the resistor and capacitor values on this video are completely bonkers. As another commenter pointed out, the resistor values are all way off from what I thought they were. I've thought long and hard about pulling this video, but I've decided not to, because its conclusion is clear that there are no correct resistor/capacitor values. Everyone should experiment with various values and configurations and come to their own conclusion. I was also very clear that what I chose to put in my guitar was the right combination in my personal case. I've also thought long and hard about redoing this video entirely. But to be honest, I'm not a UA-camr, and I just don't have the time or energy!
@@DrumStrum I still prefer the Kinman .001/.0012 and the 130k mod for both my single coils and even humbuckers...I always have a series/split/parallel mini switch on my HSS strats and so this value seems to work great and I find I use the Duncan JB bridge in split mode most of the time anyway...I do use a 500k volume pot and normally some Fat 50s for Neck and Middle pickups..Best to do the alligator clip and try different values as every guitar is going to be a bit different but we learn to hone in on certain values that we know will work...Great video though! Thx for that!
Great video, Thanks ! I know the principle for long from my '81 Ibanez Blazer ("Simple"), and implemented it - without too much research - in all my guitars. But i didnt know the duncan or kinman scheme, thanks for your great explanation ! And - please dont care for stupid people anyway ! Your video is a great help for anyone who is really interested - f##k the rest ;-) Cheers !!!
So you had the right idea, unfortunately, you misunderstood that the resistors used in a typical Duncan or Kinman treble bleed are on the order of *Hundreds of Thousands* of ohms, not just *Hundreds* of ohms like you used. You're off by 3 orders of magnitude! Your paper note shows you used 100 to 270 ohms, not 100k to 270k. And I can see than all of your resistors have a brown third band, not yellow. So, of course, the Duncan mod with it's *parallel* resistor didn't roll down the volume much at all because you're effectively shorting almost the full pickup voltage to output with a resistor that small. It only finally gets killed at "3" because the other side of the pot voltage divider finally shorts it to ground. Use a proper resistor, and you'll experience either mod as it was designed.
speedriff, to be pedantic, it’s actually 50hz here in Tokyo. The hum was way worse with the alligator clips that it usually is. I actually like a bit of hum. (Call me crazy.) It makes me feel like I’m really playing guitar!
@@DrumStrum Adding a couple feet of unshielded wire (those alligator clip leads) into your high impedance audio line sure does pick up hum and noise. But it worked fine for a quick demo.
DRUM & STRUM what is your definition of glassy? My definition of glassy is not a treble boost or passes only high frequency through. Glassy to my opinion it makes the guitar sound metallic tinny like a metal can. When you listen to SRV stevie ray vaughan live at montreux 1985 tin pan alley his guitar sound very tinny and metallic kinda of like a cocked fixed wah setting. Does SRV guitar sound he is playing in a metal can? ua-cam.com/video/AGPx-ekqZEo/v-deo.html I'm not sure when turning down the volume pot on the guitar (NO treble bleed circuit since SRV never added one ) it changes the impedance of the guitars output impedance to the Fuzz pedals input impedance and this is what is cause this Texas Glassy metallic tinny resonance SRV tone. So it can be an impedance mismatching or impedance degradation that is cause the fuzz pedal to be a "specialized frequency EQ pedal" and not a fuzz pedal. Have you compared the schematics from the stock 60's fuzz face and dunlop fuzz face pedals against the Cesar Diaz square face pedal to see why it only happens when using the Cesar Diaz square face pedal and "does not" happen using a stock 60's fuzz face or dunlop fuzz face pedal. When I turn my strats guitar volume down on a stock 60's fuzz face or dunlop fuzz face pedals it only will give a clean hendrix the wind cries mary clean tone or little wing clean tone. It "does not" give that Texas glassy metallic tinny resonance SRV tone Here is a youtube video of a guy using a Analog Mans Sunface pedal with his strat volume turned down ( no treble bleed circuit added in ) and its creating that Texas Glassy metallic tinny resonance SRV tone. The EE designer question is to narrow down what really is causing a fuzz pedal to create a Texas Glassy metallic tinny resonance SRV tone 1.) is it the fuzz pedal input impedance? 2.) is it the transistor types and part numbers? 3.) is it the front end capacitor values and resistor values? 4.) Or what really is it? ua-cam.com/video/C6LEjf3S8tY/v-deo.html
@@DrumStrum I'm asking in general because a treble bleed circuit give you have that GLASSY tones other guitarist say that is why they install it in their guitar.
Strange choice of capacitors for a treble bleed... ,022 and 0,047 mf. are not small enough for that, They are for the normal tone control, you should be be looking for 1000 pf or Less. FWIW
I prefer the Duncan.. More bells and lose less tone.. Values for mine are 680pF and a 150K resistor.. Gave me acceptabele range on the pot and great cleanup..
Man, you were suppose to use the resistors with the third color yellow or at last orange cause those range from 10k to 990k ohms(10k to 99k for orange, 100k to 990k for yellow), instead you used the 270 Ohms (red=2, purple=7, brow= x 10) resistor in the kinman, what pratically transform it in the "duncan" mod because the resistor is too low, and in your duncan mode test that is why the volume sensitivity changed so much, the lower the resistor in parallel to pins 3 and 2 the more non-linear the curve gets. Remind that a typical volume potentiometer ranges from 250k to 470k Ohms. Give a try with values ranging from 47k to 150k Ohms... Good video anyway.
The buzz is coming from the unshielded alligator connector wires. Only audible during testing. In other words, once I put it all back together properly, the buzzing immediately went away.
Thanks dude, your the only one that has shown me that I can set up jumper wires to test the combinations before I solder anything. I simply hadn't thought of that. cheers
Of all the Treble Bleed videos that I have seen, Yours seems the Most Natural as-far-as " Smooth Volume Taper " and Usable Range. I'm looking to do this to my Suhr with Lollar Dirty Blonde's. Great Information. Thanks.
This is so cool! Nice video with quick comparisson
I would've liked to hear the combination of both Kinman and Duncan too
But adding the jumpers directly to the guitar is clever, i think i'll try it myself
I agree with your updated comment. The last 75 years of electric guitar, there should be a zillion mods to choose from, but only a handful because those who experiment and explore, are mocked because Leo said so.
A small capacitor in parallel like nF value will also continue to sculpt the frequency. It also acts like a resistor and creates treble bleed.
Thanks for putting this video out there. It helped guide me to decide to experiment on my own rig before jumping into what one guy might say is the right way.
This is great. Also. I have motion sickness now.
Thanks... this saved me a lot of time. I like the Kinman circuit best...even though I have completely different pickups, it gives me a starting point that will be ahead of where I would be otherwise.
Love the way u did this test. Thank u sir🙏
The Kinman and Duncan treble bleed mods actually call for resistor values of 100 to 270 kilo ohms (100,000 to 270,000 ohms). You're using 100 to 270 ohms. The resistor is mainly there to adjust the taper of the volume pot. When you put a treble bleed capacitor in the circuit it alters the taper of the volume pot. On some guitars it makes the volume pot practically useless. The resistor is intended to bump the taper back into stock/usable territory. With a resistor value that low you can likely eliminate it if you're happy with the volume pot taper and the tone of the guitar. It should have no effect on the sound.
This is super helpful. Now I'm going to have to pull out my resistors and report back as to their actual values (based on the color codes). It was certainly my intention to get KOhms resistors. We'll have to see . . .
If you check the video at 6:38 the resistor bands are red, violet, brown. This is 270 ohms. 270 k-ohms would be red, violet, yellow.
You're absolutely right. That makes me wonder: If that's the case, then how would this have been affecting the sound so much (i.e., between Kinman and Duncan)?
Drum & Strum I see what could be making u get such a strange jump a differ sweep. Could very well be your using a .22 cap for your tone pots right. As that’s the norm these days for single. Which then confusing the treble bleed with the high range .22 on single coil it’d now finding the high then dropping sharper. I have found from old school techs that the .47 cap on your single as they are already a brighter sound and using a .22 on humbuckers as you do want to give a good range but really want to keep the thicker sound. So by using the .47 or .44 for you tone caps the higher bright single coils don’t have that ice pick if not using some pedal combo. Then your treble bleed with right range will be more consistent with the sweep. This is subject to your taste and set up. But don’t just follow what Fender buy In bulk and even unless artists set in even use the .22 thing on single in customshop. But take Eric Clapton famous women tone or brown tone. Achieved by using a heavier than .44/47 to a mid 50 for caps this allowed him to drop that tone sound with the gain up yet had a small treble bleed attached also. So he could lower tone knob dark then adjust volume around. Hence people been chasing it with pedals and amps combo for yrs. so if got time just see. As you pick ups are slightly hot from memory. So check your tone pots cap. Break tradition and try a .47 then try a treble bleed but also use your time knobs man. IF 10 on the tone I’d best you like well allow more 10 to darker 1 but the level your volume sweep. Use your pedals. But I bet you get a huge my variety especially with a clean amp to test as adding any effects is tranfering your colour and a fuzz or OD hugely then you throw a compressor and delay. Can each throw a difference to your pick up and tone setup. This is really wild but find the cleanest sound you can from your amp then use your volume to sweep to its maximum on the edge of even tiny dirt. Now engage a good compressor sustain wise not volume boost so in sync, hopefully you will be thinking nice now add a say real transparent overdrive not a distortion say a boss blues driver tone 12 gain 1-2 volume sync. Sounding strange as we still totally clean but things should be rich no high or low String pitch then I see u have a few pedals if u have a tremolo turn the trem 1, volume sync or 1 notch low you can do this with delay or reverb but little more fiddle. Now on a nice tube using your volume and tone. You should have a almost clean thick jazz or Blues with no break up that will just sound sweet as. This is what I’m trying to get across that testing especially for utube after a node and then halfway saying ohh that’s my clean amp but 5 min later yes I’m using a Hendrix fuzz face. You are robbing your self as any preamp adjustment is affecting your tonal palate. That’s why an OD and compressor with a tremolo pedal to get a real nice sustaining full string pitch with a fullness sounds strange. But if you did it and adjusted to keep it clean as I’ve not used your amp or no tubes or watts. But the cleanest jazz players loved the 100w tube amps as they could lower there volume to not break up have huge headroom then using a 335 style big semi open. Could get sounds and rhythm in huge clubs. So it’s crappy day here and I just thought I could pass on some stuff. Not to tell you to change or do anything. Your sound and tone is important to you. But this may show you the guitar the amp the caps the headroom. All are things that can either hide your mistakes or make it so clear a fantastic that you will quickly find any lazy spots and can over a week of saving your say private honest practices on flaws. Try it few wks your crunch distortion of it will pick up in as they say with the greats it’s there fingers. Yes as especially the older ones had no choice but to learn crystal clear. Then pass that on to there best understudies that they found that would listen. Clapton Hendrix BB king SRV EVH and so on all are masters. But you’ll always find they studied to death on the old original players. Which where often just as clean as they could be. Until there songs allowed then to start breaking up the tubes. Love to hear how things go. Also if your going to update your treble bleed video. As great approach but even now there be some confused people out there. As they may note read the comments like you can’t on the new tv utube. So they don’t know you made a mistake with the numbers and the parts. Probably still out there now going to the stores and buying what they have a paused utube photo on there mobile phones these days. Going into electric shops saying see this i want these see the colours they have to match. So be cool 😎 stay strong play hard. As it’s all what you hear. So as long as you not going to catch on fire or blow something up. There are some great choices to do. But remember to be honest with your self test your pedals later. But use your tone knobs and volume knob shape your guitar then add your pedals to achieve you goal. But buy nice guitars with good woods and nuts and bits then turn everything to max and dance around a pedal board but get the same thing. Be out here Shit no one would say yeah put your uni vibe in front of your OD and fuzz or cry baby in spots. Hendrix did it all the time depending on the songs the place and how he felt. Yet we not be using half the things if he didn’t break away from the normal. Cheer from Australia 🇦🇺🤟
Hello ebutube, What ohms would you use on Fender Noiseless Vintage and Fat 50s? Your advice would be appreciated.
Thank you for your very thorough and informative video on various treble bleed circuit combinations.
I was just going to do the duncan and the kinman is what I'm looking for. It keeps the integrity of the tone. Thanks.
Agree Daniel 100%
Yes this is great explanation
I've been researching this subject as well, there is no "correct" value. If it does what you want it to then it's correct. Don't listen to naysayers, thanks for posting this video. I've only tried the Duncan Mod.
When you turn a volume pot down, you add a lot of resistance in series to your pickup signal (and at the same time you reduce the resistance to ground, but we can omit this here). High frequencies are blocked by resistance, while they travel easily across capacitors. Bass frequency behave the opposite way: they are blocked by small capacitors, while they travel easily across small to medium resistors.
The cap in a treble bleed allows high frequencies to bypass that big resistance of the closing volume pot, and the bigger that cap is, the more those high frequencies will also be mid and then even bass frequencies: if you put a 10uF cap, it would allow about ALL frequencies to pass, so it will seem closing your volume doesn't change anything (not a clever mod...). Sometimes too little the treble bleed capacitor, too little highs are allowed to pass to be really useful, but too big that capacitor and the volume pot becomes a "bass roll off" knob, because both high and mid frequencies will pass through that cap even with your volume at 1, and only bass will eventually be blocked. So in the Kinman style, a resistor is also added in series with the capacitor, to "tame" the effect of what would be too big a capacitor to be used alone. In the Duncan style, instead, the resistor is added in parallel with the cap to allow mids-bass as well, to bleed through the closing volume pot. With the latter, if you use a big cap (the 0.022uF cap you picked is too big for any treble bleed circuit) and a small resistor (the 270 ohm, not Kohm, you used), you will allow about all your signal to pass through the closing volume pot until you reach very low volume settings, as you unintentionally showed in your video.
shredgd5 Excellent information. I’m thinking of taking down the video altogether for the ohms/Kohms inaccuracy. It isn’t very scientific, and it isn’t fair to the other types of designs, which may be more viable than I let on. I would love to use your information and make a better video at some point.
Leave it up. Even if the Duncan demo is an example of how NOT to do it, the conversation it sparked is enormously helpful.
thanks man, this is far clear than anything I´ve seen, Kinman for me was the best, one more time, thanks to take the time
Using the Duncan mod is in fact placing a resistor parallel over the volume pot. So the logaritme of the pot is disturbed and it is now become a semi lineair pot. That makes the behavior different for our logaritmic ears. The Kinman is way better in this way.
Nice explanation, mate. Now I'm very confident I can do that mod on my guitar (Duncan TB is easy enough and give the best result for my ears). Now I just need to know how it actually sounds, because I'm hearing your pick on the strings more than the actual sound of the guitar. Maybe line recording could solve it? (also, why most of the best videos out there, with easy to understand info and well explained, usually has the worst sound capture/recording?)
@@blackpanther256, yeah, it’s so hard to make videos at all, but getting perfect sound and lighting adds orders of magnitude to the complexity. I’m just glad my son didn’t drop the camera! 😅
Yes my man you have just just proven my problem is with having the cap and resister in parallel is doing exactly like you say, making not a lot happen until you get to 2-3 on volume
Just be sure to take what I said with a grain of salt. As you will see in the video description, I completely botched my cap/resistor values! (Maybe you botched your values, too!)
They should do that on all the strats, what a joy to have a dirt and clean sound by the twist of a knob. I'm doing that today
G&L (Leo Fender's last company) does it on all of theirs. Good luck!
Thanx. Also try 50s wiring, no need for a treble bleed. Cleans up even nicer.
Makes volume and tone pot interactive so you can really dial in your tone.
Although on Fender type single coils some say its too bright.
The best demonstration of treble bleed in you tube. Thank you.
Hello again Drum&Strum, I finally have the parts in. At first I couldn't remember to which terminals you connected to, but then I re-watched your vid and saw that you did the Kinman mod correctly. Some folks fail to identify the caps Neg & Pos leads and I've seen where they solder the (+) lead of cap to the (-) Neg of pot, and (-) Neg to either #1 or 2 terms on pot. Rule of thumb is, that when you have the writing on the cap facing you, the left lead is Neg & right Pos. Aside from this you'd need electrical equipt to know. Well, I also have to replace my strings and set intonation after the kinman mod. Will post my results when I'm done. Cheers.
I hope it works! I absolutely love this mod on my Strat and Tele (ASAT Classic).
Well, Counselor, I must say I got great bright tone, which is a difference. However, I'm not sure if its bcuz of the spec number variation, but the vol level tends to remain the same from 2-1/2 up. And that I can't live with..lol. I guess it will take some more tinkering into the other tone pots before I get what I want. For now I'll remove it and research some more. Objection sustained.
What kind of pickups are you using (single coils/humbuckers)? I’m curious.
Drum & Strum, yes single coil humbucker.. 3 pickups like yours. I also tried pos w/resis lead to #2 term and neg lead to top of pot and but the tone was much bassier. So I now moved pos lead to #1 term and kept neg lead on pot. However I haven't tried it bcuz I ran into a snag. My new strings (fender 250XS .08ga. It's all I use) I got "buzzing". So looked closer and discovered the nuts slots are pretty worn in. This obviously was going to turn into another project. So I cut same slot size pieces of the old strings and super glued them in, thereby raising the tolerance, and it worked perfectly. However I will opt to buy a new Fender Strat maple neck next month to replace this rose wood one. The frets do have indentation wear from the strings. But I am going to put back the pickgaurd and test the mod again... And that's the way the cookie crumbles...
Drum&Strum, my last attempt had no effect at all. However, I was amazed, the sound I got for the orig mod first attempt was VERY nice. I tell you it sounded Awesome. But what happened was that as I turned vol up. the vol showed no sound until it reached about 2 & half, then it just came on as a set vol level. It didn't matter if I turned it 3 - 10, the vol was the same. And lowering it was just the opposite. Once it reached 2-1/2 it lowered low until I turned it to 0. And at worship services I raise and lower the vol to compensate So I am now wondering what type vol pot I have, Linear or Taper. And why does the vol stays set. Also, could it be the type or value of the Cap and or resistor. Or perhaps leave the resistor off.. I feel, to get this down packed, I'd have to do extensive trials. Plus pull that pot out and test resistance bcuz the only thing I know is that its a 500K fender mini pot. Be in touch.
You’re using cap values entirely too high for the duncan mod. That’s why it got too dark. More common Duncan mod values would be for example a 1000pf (1.0nf/.001uf) cap and 100 or 150k resistor in parallel. The two caps you were using .022uf (22nf) and .047uf (47nf) are good values for tone pot caps but treble bleed cap values are tiny in comparison. Ones you were using were like 20-40x too large for a duncan type treble bleed.
Yup, I know. The values are a disaster, as I pointed out in the video description, which I all but beg everyone to read. (I really should redo this video!)
This is the Kinman treble bleed, not a Duncan
Thanks for the demo! Was just thinking if doing this mod! I just watched another video the other day that said the simple bleed was best for Telecasters. I guess they know something at the factory! I'm gonna try that one on my Tele and I think I'll try the combo. you found works, for my Strat. I liked the way it sounds! Thanks again!☺
How did you attach your wires to the volume pot for the testing phase - alligator clips or solder?
I managed to be able to use only alligator clips.
Thanks for your post. Lot to think about.
I have a prewired Strat pick guard from Lindy Fralin, with a Duncan Treble Bleed (their standard option). I got a King Tone Mini Fuzz that is way to bright with the Treble Bleed when rolled back. I had a push/pull pot installed to be able to disengage the Treble Bleed.
I’m not that handy, or patient, but the Kinman mod seems provide the tone I’d like to be getting from my Treble bleed? Sounded more natural. I also have a Tele Deluxe with P-90’s and a Duncan TB...that isn’t working for me?
Are you using Kohms or Ohms from the 270?
See the video description and some of the earlier comments. I totally screwed up and used the wrong values. Should be kOhms.
Very helpful that you showed a quick switch.
Good experiment. Nicely done. I liked both the Duncan and Kinman mod before used the compressor. With the compressor, the Kinman won hands down. The only thing I think worth mention is that the resistor values are in kohms, not ohms. But anyways, thanks for the nice demonstration.
Good point. This is why those providing comments should get paid the big bucks!
One Down Side is that the mod is a High Pass filter so you lose lows correspondingly.
But if it get's you the sounds you want ...
That's precisely the upside. As you roll the volume down on a non-modded guitar, lows don't go quiet as quickly as the highs do. This mod is intended to make the highs get quiet more slowly, so they match the same rate as the lows. Of course, it's impossible to get it perfect through the entire volume sweep, but one can get it pretty darned close.
@@DrumStrum More often than not one just has to decide which one wants more, the highs or the lows.
Many people try the Bleed then go back when they find it's taking too much away down low.
Not a fix-all thing. Personal choice in the end.
Please don't get me wrong.
I thought it was worth pointing out that it's not for everyone.
Yours is an excellent video and I may even have a candidate to try a Bleed Mod on myself.
Of course it Would have to be a semi wouldn't it ...
Might try it 1st on a similar guitar (pickup-wise) with easier access ...
I'd be using your trailing lead idea to try for the optimum natch of values.
VERY good video, but please correct the resistor values: they are in in K Ohms, NOT Ohms! With a log volume pot, the best value for me is a 102 cap in parallel with a 270K resistor. With a linear volume pot I usually stick with just the 102 cap alone. Cheers !!!!!
I assume that you mean 100k ohm, 150k ohm etc for the resistance? 100 ohm wil eat the whole signal in Duncan mode at 5:51
Cannot Thank You enough for putting this up for us!👍🙏
I HAVE A JOHN MAYER STRAT, DO YOU RECOMEND THE SAME KINGMAN TREBLE BLEED FOR IT? SINCE KLEIN S5 ARE A REPLICA OF BIG DIPPERS
Remember, tone is subjective and this is what makes you happy and that is OK.
I finally understand what treble bleed is. This is so cool thx!
But I'm just going to wire my les paul in 50s style, that should do the trick as well I heard.
Just got a '58 reissue LP, and with the '50s-style wiring, it's so powerful. I absolutely love how the tone and volume interact. I need to try it on my Epi . . .
This is a great comparison method. Good job.
How do you have those test probes hooked up to your guitar
SamYouPlays, I just clipped them onto the output knob in the same place where the treble bleed would be soldered in.
Of course - use right value resistors (k-ohms, no ohms!). It will provide not so bright "Kinman" tone and much brighter "Duncan" tone.
All it is not so simple... because depends on pickup's impedance, Volume pot's value and taper, Tone pot's value, Tone cap's value, guitar's parasitic shunting capacitance (including cable), and next input's impedance. This circuit is not only changing the resulting tone at reduced positions of the Volume pot, but Volume pot's value (pickup's shunting load) and pot's taper parameters (taper's rotating feel) too. And all variations and component combinations of different "treble bleed" circuits are affecting it differently. I prefer Kinman's circuit for 250...300k pots, but using 500k or 1m pots it must be recalculated.
A fellow Carvin gear man! LOVE their gear but my DC125 guitar, of 27 years, is THE best. You have any? And: Do you live in a music store??
ROOKTABULA, I bought this Carvin amp about 20 years ago, and it’s pretty great!
Not a music store. Just my house-technically, my dining room. (My wife is awesome.)
Are those supposed to k ohms?
270K OHMS of course !!!!
@@lionelb.1482 Of Course, but that's not what he used. His paper note shows just ohms, not K ohms, and if you pause the video at 3:20 you'll see the 3rd band of each resistor is brown (one zero), not yellow (four zeros).
@@randaji i know, but he made a mistake: if you use those values , this WILL NOT work! (feel free to try it and see for yourself!)
With the pot's shaft pointing towards you with the solder lugs hanging down the lugs are from left to right lug 1, lug 2 and lug 3. On a volume pot lug 1 always gets grounded.
What value is your volume pot? Typically the resistor value used for a treble bleed circuit is half of the volume pot's value. A 270K seems awfully high if you're using a 250K volume pot.
The resistor is in range. Depends on pot values. Disregard the keyboard experts. I like kinman but may try fender w two res
Hello Drum&Strum, very good 'show n tell" of the sound tone difference. And now for a silly question, I am under the impression this cap/resis mod is soldered onto the volume pot, for this tone mod. But I have also seen where the 2 tone pots also have that Sprague orange drop cap. Can this be done and if so, what might be the benefit? I am currently waiting on a sprague orange drop .047mf 100v cap and a 470ohms resistor in the mail, to perform the "Kinman" mod onto the vol pot. But i was considering the middle pot for a .022mf ww/ 270 resis mod as well. What can you tell me? Thx. John
J P, I am a lawyer, not an electrical engineer, so I’m afraid I am not going to be much help! I am not aware of a way to do a treble bleed on a volume pot, but I suppose the principle is the same. I hope someone with more knowledge can weigh in!
J P, sorry, I meant on a *tone pot!
Ohh, my mistake, that's true, you did state your'e a lawyer not a elect-tech. You know, it's that you were so well into the topic, that man, you could pass as one..lol. Okay, so to confirm, this mod you did goes on the volume pot, correct? I look the other stuff up. Thanks all the same.
The tone pot capacitor uses a much larger capacitance value (.022 or .047 uF) than the treble bleed (around .001 or .002 uF). The tone pot is sending high frequencies to ground, using a 250k or 500k variable resistor in series to reduce the amount of treble being dumped to ground. The treble bleed circuit allows some of the treble portion of the signal to bypass the volume control on its way to the output jack. The treble bleed resistor is roughly 100k to 300k ohms. That k means kilo, so multiply by 1000. That is, 100,000 ohms to 300,000 ohms.
Also a code of 102 on the capacitor is actually a .001 and not .0012...Not that it makes a difference..Kinman mod is a 130k in series with a .0012 cap.I prefer his mod to Duncan's.
Hi, in the Kinman version, you say the capacitor is what affects the frequency and the resistor is how much it is allowed back into the output jack... does this mean the greater the value of capacitor, the higher the frequency that is bled back into the output? Or is it the greater the value, less treble is bled?
I'm a lawyer, not an electrical engineer, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt, but when I experimented, it seemed to me that that the higher the capacitor value, the more bass was let back in. And the higher the resistor value, the less overall effect there was. I'm sure someone trained in electrical engineering would love to slap me upside the head, but that's just what I subjectively came to believe in my case. Again, the point of this video is to demonstrate that experimenting is the key. Just as one would definitely twist dials on any pedal they put between their guitar and their amp, they should "twist the dials" on the capacitor and resistor they use for a treble bleed circuit. I don't have any way of knowing whether the values I chose for my components were 1-10 on the "dials" or if they were 5-6. I'm sure with a wider range of components (and 5 years of electrical engineering training!), I would be better able to answer your original question. I hope this helps.
Yes i've seen the kinman version with a 130k resistor. Gonna do some experiments myself :)
Thank you Sir! This vid is a great help!
People search for "the best treble bleed" but the truth is it depends on your guitar and the pickups. Sadly, there is no "one size fits all"
Fender seemed not to agree :-) They made one for 250K pots, and one for 500K pots.
@@kimhansen6384 But . . . that's the same thing the OP said.
Should have just wired it 50's style. Would have simpler. With a Vintage taper volume pot the entire volume sweep would be usable and you won't loos any clarity.
Great Video!
You bought the capacitors from Akihabara Japan? Nice ;-)
ユークハウス・ウクレレ裏街道 I live in Tokyo! 東京に住んでいます！
Potentiometers have a ring in the middle and a second ring outside it with a graphite taper with a set resistance and a brass or gold plated sweep attached to the knob.
The volume pot works by creating a higher resistance the farther the sweep is turned away from ground towards the output lug,
When it gets closer to ground it sends the signal to ground effectively cutting out the sound.
When its near the output lug you get almost full sound, i say almost because some sound still gets thrown to ground because the taper doesn't completely block sound from going to ground when volume is set to 10.
you can't add sound back into a circuit, you can only prevent sound from bleeding to ground.
contrary to what some forums say regarding pot impedance not mattering with regards to tone, you can't short out the impedance when volume is set to 10 because the potentiometer will always be connected to ground at a set resistance no matter the potentiometer chosen.
ceramic will sound even better
I have a Fender USA HH strat with the S1 the pickups are just very bassy loud and dull sounding I'm planning to get a treble bleed mod tomorrow, so biting the bullet I think I will get the Kinman mod hopefully the Guitar center tech will know what I'm talking about when I ask him to do the mod
I the tech doesn’t know what it is, then I would take it somewhere else!
Not sure whether you will see as dramatic of a result on humbuckers, but it’s worth a try.
Good luck!
I had the treble bleed done to my guitar before and purchase a guitar that was already came factory modded I think it was regular TB I didn't know there were 3 choices you can have I thought it was the capacitors you pick and the tech who did the mod before didn't go into details about which was the best, The Fender HH strat sounds very dull and bassy I think it'd be cheaper upgrade from replacing pickups. The one I had treble bleed done was on a dimarzio Ibanez guitar and it was bright AH but it wasn't bad with the regular TB mod so I think I will try it and find out with the Fender USA HH strat with the Kinman treble mod, there's a new Fender commercial that has their own version paper oil treble bleed mod and it sounds a bit better
Hey man, could you give me a link on the Kinman, with the combination you used? Thanks for all the work, it helps a lot, saves me some time.
Thanks for your time and job for us .
kinman way, can i change the resistor with potentiometer (trimpot)?
Sure, why not?
Travis Bean guitars did this to all of their guitars starting in 1974..
And kinman TB is recently installed
Best video on this ever. Thanks!
The .022 and .047 values are tone caps values...I think you meant .0022 and .0047 for the treble bleed values....Big difference there and it may mess someone up...Good video otherwise.
All the resistor and capacitor values on this video are completely bonkers. As another commenter pointed out, the resistor values are all way off from what I thought they were. I've thought long and hard about pulling this video, but I've decided not to, because its conclusion is clear that there are no correct resistor/capacitor values. Everyone should experiment with various values and configurations and come to their own conclusion. I was also very clear that what I chose to put in my guitar was the right combination in my personal case. I've also thought long and hard about redoing this video entirely. But to be honest, I'm not a UA-camr, and I just don't have the time or energy!
I figured out how to update the video description. Hopefully, with that update, no one will be led astray on component values!
@@DrumStrum I still prefer the Kinman .001/.0012 and the 130k mod for both my single coils and even humbuckers...I always have a series/split/parallel mini switch on my HSS strats and so this value seems to work great and I find I use the Duncan JB bridge in split mode most of the time anyway...I do use a 500k volume pot and normally some Fat 50s for Neck and Middle pickups..Best to do the alligator clip and try different values as every guitar is going to be a bit different but we learn to hone in on certain values that we know will work...Great video though! Thx for that!
Congratulations , understandable perfect
Great demo!! Thanks for doing this.
Which volume pot do you use? 500k, 1M or 250k? And what are the values for R and C for your Kinman's choice? Thanks!
You didn't put a link in the description.
Can you remind me what the link was supposed to be for? Happy to update.
@@DrumStrum You said in the video "I will leave the link in the description"
I need to try this
Best video im gonna try it on my strat
Just tried duncan and i think i like kinman better
I love that but v treb was the new meta maybe
Great video, Thanks ! I know the principle for long from my '81 Ibanez Blazer ("Simple"), and implemented it - without too much research - in all my guitars. But i didnt know the duncan or kinman scheme, thanks for your great explanation ! And - please dont care for stupid people anyway ! Your video is a great help for anyone who is really interested - f##k the rest ;-) Cheers !!!
got a little dizzy looking at the video. nice camera job
So you had the right idea, unfortunately, you misunderstood that the resistors used in a typical Duncan or Kinman treble bleed are on the order of *Hundreds of Thousands* of ohms, not just *Hundreds* of ohms like you used. You're off by 3 orders of magnitude! Your paper note shows you used 100 to 270 ohms, not 100k to 270k. And I can see than all of your resistors have a brown third band, not yellow. So, of course, the Duncan mod with it's *parallel* resistor didn't roll down the volume much at all because you're effectively shorting almost the full pickup voltage to output with a resistor that small. It only finally gets killed at "3" because the other side of the pot voltage divider finally shorts it to ground. Use a proper resistor, and you'll experience either mod as it was designed.
Very useful. Thanks !
I think the best TB il PRS mode:only cap 180pf
Now you just need an Illitch Electrinics anti-hum backplate to get rid of that atrocious 60hz noise.
speedriff, to be pedantic, it’s actually 50hz here in Tokyo. The hum was way worse with the alligator clips that it usually is. I actually like a bit of hum. (Call me crazy.) It makes me feel like I’m really playing guitar!
@@DrumStrum Adding a couple feet of unshielded wire (those alligator clip leads) into your high impedance audio line sure does pick up hum and noise. But it worked fine for a quick demo.
At 0.14 you say you used 0.0012mf cap and at 4.48 you say .001mf. Is that a mistake or my lack of understanding ?
considering these devices are made with a tolerance from 1 - 10%, the difference of 0.0002 microfarads is minimal and unnoticeable.
DRUM & STRUM what is your definition of glassy?
My definition of glassy is not a treble boost or passes only high frequency through. Glassy to my opinion it makes the guitar sound metallic tinny like a metal can. When you listen to SRV stevie ray vaughan live at montreux 1985 tin pan alley his guitar sound very tinny and metallic kinda of like a cocked fixed wah setting.
Does SRV guitar sound he is playing in a metal can?
ua-cam.com/video/AGPx-ekqZEo/v-deo.html
I'm not sure when turning down the volume pot on the guitar (NO treble bleed circuit since SRV never added one ) it changes the impedance of the guitars output impedance to the Fuzz pedals input impedance and this is what is cause this Texas Glassy metallic tinny resonance SRV tone. So it can be an impedance mismatching or impedance degradation that is cause the fuzz pedal to be a "specialized frequency EQ pedal" and not a fuzz pedal.
Have you compared the schematics from the stock 60's fuzz face and dunlop fuzz face pedals against the Cesar Diaz square face pedal to see why it only happens when using the Cesar Diaz square face pedal and "does not" happen using a stock 60's fuzz face or dunlop fuzz face pedal.
When I turn my strats guitar volume down on a stock 60's fuzz face or dunlop fuzz face pedals it only will give a clean hendrix the wind cries mary clean tone or little wing clean tone. It "does not" give that Texas glassy metallic tinny resonance SRV tone
Here is a youtube video of a guy using a Analog Mans Sunface pedal with his strat volume turned down ( no treble bleed circuit added in ) and its creating that Texas Glassy metallic tinny resonance SRV tone.
The EE designer question is to narrow down what really is causing a fuzz pedal to create a Texas Glassy metallic tinny resonance SRV tone
1.) is it the fuzz pedal input impedance?
2.) is it the transistor types and part numbers?
3.) is it the front end capacitor values and resistor values?
4.) Or what really is it?
ua-cam.com/video/C6LEjf3S8tY/v-deo.html
I don't remember using the word glassy, but if I did, could you point out the time reference?
@@DrumStrum I'm asking in general because a treble bleed circuit give you have that GLASSY tones other guitarist say that is why they install it in their guitar.
Brilliant. Thank you.
Drunk handling a camera….
Guilty as charged. (My young kid helped me out.) 😂
That's nice man!
Distortion is better witbout treble bleed
Strange choice of capacitors for a treble bleed... ,022 and 0,047 mf. are not small enough for that, They are for the normal tone control, you should be be looking for 1000 pf or Less. FWIW
I prefer the Duncan.. More bells and lose less tone.. Values for mine are 680pF and a 150K resistor.. Gave me acceptabele range on the pot and great cleanup..
What guitar was that on? Different pickups and volume control values will have different results with the same treble bleed circuit.
@@JohnShalamskas on a strat, with low output vintage style pickups. Range from 5. 5 to 6. 4 Kohms.
@@jonghj Thanks for the data point!
that's a good video
thank you
We ear more strings then the effect of the mod...
Thank you! Straigh to!!!
Man, you were suppose to use the resistors with the third color yellow or at last orange cause those range from 10k to 990k ohms(10k to 99k for orange, 100k to 990k for yellow), instead you used the 270 Ohms (red=2, purple=7, brow= x 10) resistor in the kinman, what pratically transform it in the "duncan" mod because the resistor is too low, and in your duncan mode test that is why the volume sensitivity changed so much, the lower the resistor in parallel to pins 3 and 2 the more non-linear the curve gets. Remind that a typical volume potentiometer ranges from 250k to 470k Ohms. Give a try with values ranging from 47k to 150k Ohms...
Good video anyway.
Great video, thx
your camera man is turning shaky geezer!
now do it clean, and take care of the buzz
The buzz is coming from the unshielded alligator connector wires. Only audible during testing. In other words, once I put it all back together properly, the buzzing immediately went away.
great video
like like like !!!
Nice...