This is probably the best video on youtube about the book of the new sun. For the first time I wish a video was like two or three times longer. *That said* ... I love BOTNS but only read the original 4 novels. Will read Urth of the new sun soon (took a break to read something else after book 4). The one thing I really disliked was the green man, the implications of the green man, and the also some of the ideas Gene had on humanity. It seems to me that Gene sees humanity and progress as a destructive force. The Ascians are an allegory for the USSR (they also aren't from Asia but from the north, so .. Russians/USSR) it seems but it's more than that. They are also an allegory for capitalism, democracy, progress in general. Gene seems to imply that we are too evil to be able to progress. That it's bad for humanity to cross the stars since we just bring our wars etc with us. Essentially the only good way forward is for humanity to be wiped out and another humanoid species to take its place. I mean they shut the roads, enforce class systems and just horrific abuses to make people completely docile, dumb and obedient. All in the name of a better future, not for their kids, not for their planet, not for the human species as we know it, but a completely new humanoid species that for all I know isn't even remotely related to us. So in that sense it's kinda what the God Emperor of Dune seems to do (I haven't read Dune yet because I've seen so much dune content I memorized much of the story). Enact this horrific period of suffering, repression, and dictatorship.. but more as a means to teach humanity a lesson. While the Autarch's seem to do it so humanity won't realize they are planning to wipe them out, and won't progress technologically or socially till then. Not only don't I agree with this sentiment. I don't agree how it's presented.. also find it weird that the Ascians are supposed to represent the progress ("destructive human progress") or at least "progress regardless of how". Lastly, as someone that is practically a carnivore .. I HATE any type of vegan future that is in books or media. The idea that vegan life styles are morally superior or something to strife for is one of my pet peeves in fiction.
Thank you so much for these videos, Marc! I've recently been reading through the archives of the Urth mailing list, and your posts (especially those wonderful Short Stories write-ups!) have definitely been a highlight. I greatly appreciate all the deep thought and hard work you've been putting into explicating the mysteries of Wolfe for all these years. As an aside, I couldn't agree more with you about the deficiencies of Peter Wright's Attending Daedulus -- the contortions he puts himself (and the reader) through to somehow stuff the Book of the New Sun into an atheistic framework would be impressive if it weren't so insulting. But anyway, please keep these coming! They really are terrific.
Thanks Shannon I appreciate it. Glad you had a chance to see some of the short story write ups, definitely the biggest project I have ever undertaken. I have about 103 more to go ... I hope to be able to finish it up this year. Thanks for listening and I think when I do a video of Long and Short Sun it will have slightly more focus than this New Sun discussion.
Hey, can you make a video talking about the plot of the four volumes and what and who represents in the Book of the New Sun? This is a really tricky book. Thanks again.
I have a question and it’s a serious one, (although I think and will accept “magic” as the answer) how does severian resurrect himself? If he has a power does that power not stop once he dies? Unless it’s not his power, as he seems to have no control over it. ( I am ignoring the claw too, I think the claw was a red herring )
long sun and short sun vids, the sixth and seventh videos, but they are not explicitly about New Sun except as that series intersects those. Spoilers beyond belief, of course.
Hey Marc great series, since this video ive watched all of your youtube content and its awesome. A quick question regarding Sword the Lictor. !(Spoilers)! In the end of the story, Terminus Est and the Claw are both destroyed. Severian finds pieces of the gem scattered below the castle, then miraculously, he finds a new claw (either in the bushes or in the ocean, the writing here is unclear to me) that has a different colored gem inside. Is this here to insinuate that the claw really has no power after all and that he is simply the one who is bringing these people back to life (by his choosing)? It seemed to me he reached a state where he no longer questioned the claw anymore, but rather was just happy to have a new one around his neck to give him that sense of comfort once again. Again it was hard to understand this ending because it happens in the span of a couple of paragraphs, but I went back and re-read it several times and still couldnt wrap my head around it. Thanks again, and cant wait for the next video!
Have you read Urth of the New Sun? When the gem broke, he picked up the thorn which was the "flaw" inside the gem ... this thorn was the "real" claw. It winds up in the altar of the Pelerines. Later, he will pick another thorn from a bush, and this will be saturated in his blood, and the mixing, thanks to a time loop in Urth of the New Sun, will be ensconced in a gem that becomes the claw. Thus the power is at least partially in Severian's blood, but the affinity the claw has for him (and the one that Severian has for the bush in the Botanic Gardens in Shadow of the Torturer)is a resonance of almost sympathetic magic. Severian probably resurrects Triskele, the smallest of "those dead", long before he gets the claw. However, much as the affinity for the White Fountain permits Severian's powers, the Claw might have some special characteriatics, despite the powerful denouement of Citadel, in which all thorns (and all things) are declared relics that have fallen from the hand of the Pancreator.
Marc Aramini Thanks for the quick response. The end passage where he finds the pieces of the gem makes alot more sense to me now, "Yet it shone, a claw as long as the last joint of my smallest finger, cruelly hooked and needle-pointed, the reality of that dark core at the heart of the gem, which must have been no more than a container for it." By referencing the parallels you presented, in that the story has all these reverse meanings, it makes sense that the "Dark Core" would produce such an intense White light. Then Severian sits there looking out at the waves and then back at the tiny claw with this "obedience without reflection", it seems to me he is very eager to obey this "real" claw, and even says it is not out of reverence (although I believe it is). I will have to check out Urth as well now upon your recommendation, there is just so much meat to these books, and it is a shame there isnt more of a community to discuss them because they really do invoke some excellent philosophical ideas and questions.
Thanks - I try not to say too much about New Sun because I feel it will always be commented upon by Wolfe fans, and I make more authoritative claims about his other less discussed books. Might do a few more videos soon. Glad you enjoyed it.
I was interested in picking up a copy of that hardcover SF Book Club edition of Book of the New Sun, but I remembering hearing something about it being poorly printed/printed on low quality paper. What're your thoughts on the edition?
Well it has slightly better art than the gollancz one volume with the curiously (nonsensically) titled Severian of the Guild. My favorite non limited editions are the latest sf masterworks ones with very colorful cover art but they are of course softback in the same configuration as shadow and claw/sword and citadel. The paper quality is ok On the sfbc book but it clearly isn’t a high end hardback book. I’d say if you really want a one volume hardback then it is the best option, but there aren’t any truly excellent options.
I really love the purple prose of the series, but the other Wolfe books that I've bought weren't written is this style and I didn't like them too much. Your analysis is excellent, but did Wolfe commented any of the "mysteries" in the Book of the new sun? The text feels too "open" - religious, deterministic etc interpretations could be all plausable.
Sorry for the delay in answering. There are various interviews collected online (one of the best of them is with James Jordan, where Wolfe's religious principles come to the fore). I think what you are looking for is actually answered in this explicitly section from the asimov, wolfe, and ellison video ua-cam.com/video/PpNbr4vupHk/v-deo.html Here he is saying that people have the freedom to be terrible villains or saints, and this is explicitly Catholic. We are not determined by our environment. I think Wolfe leaves his texts open for just such a reason, though he has a worldview and a solution in mind. I find Wright's readings, Naturalistic determinism, reductionist in the extreme and almost anathema to Catholic ideology. While Wolfe's narrators are not always good and are certainly subject to forces beyond their control, they way that they choose to respond either leads them closer to the divine or further away from it. Sometimes imitation leads to genuine redemption. In my mind the solar cycle is explicitly religious (while Pirate Freedom is ironically undercutting the casuistry of a priest who justifies his own evil to himself).
I hope so, but anti-intellectualism in general makes it a 50-50 gambit in my mind. He deserves a place in serious academia as more than a niche writer. I think colleges gravitate to utopian/dystopian or sf which easily fits a marxist or gender agenda, but in an artistic sense institutions which venerate the palimpsest of Joyce and Melville should make a place for Wolfe, who certainly deserves that veneration. I feel Sf programs must acknowledge him after the 2013 grandmaster award but that teachers fear the very real possibility of misreading him even by an intelligent reader and latch onto easier writers with either historical impact or trendier modern polish. His eccentricities make his art ( as for Joyce, Melville, or even the more modern but for some reason academically respected Pynchon) and I hope someday he is loved for the right reason, as a sincere but cryptic artist capable of very powerful emotional scenes and subtle plotting while referencing just about everything under the sun. Ironically the huge range of references in his work make it seem stranger than it often is, for publishing has exploded beyond the point where a man of letters can have working knowledge of everything. The huge, easy data dump of the internet makes reading Wolfe easier, but the joy of searching for a reference or a name I suspected was important when I was young in a weighty reference tome makes Wolfe feel like a uniquely personal writer to me, that we shared a world of common knowledge. Whether this is exclusive to more casual readers is the risk Wolfe runs, but I feel his plot is enough to carry him. After all, I loved his books even in the fourth or fifth grade. I am a bit appalled by some of the instant resistance to Wolfe some first time readers get, readers who should be capable enough to understand there is something behind the omissions and narrative breaks besides "sound and fury". Perhaps the one thing Wolfe does which is universal is depict the isolated and neglected youth who feels cast out. The short stories in The island of doctor death and other stories and other stories show this very well, and it may be in years to come that it is that, rather than his grandiose far future exploration of the redesign and evolution of man into something more, that simple feeling of longing loneliness, finding refuge in books and the eidolons of heroes and villains, will in turn immortalize Wolfe. Whether he ever gets the recognition he deserves, up there with Shakespeare, without hyperbole, is actually secondary to the gratefulness I feel that Wolfe lives in my time, an artist and a genius who speaks so well to the silence inside (for me, anyway).
@@marcaramini9794 your above response is beyond a doubt the best UA-cam comment I have ever read. That may not be saying much but it is something that matters to me. I am very moved. I liked the video as well and look forward to watching the next 4. I'm gearing up to reread this series whilst adhering to shelter in place recommendations (due to Covid-19).
Something fundamental here. It's been a long time, and I very much want to reread the series after watching your vid, but wasn't the Green Man from a future in which the New Sun never came? Wasn't the turn to using solar energy directly a result of there not being enough to grow food? I may be somehow mixing his timeline up with Ash?? argh. Must reread.
Marc Aramini, I've just finished "The Book of the New Sun" I really enjoyed it but was left confused, is it okay if you can help me with the following questions? Warning Spolers! 1.) Heathor was in book four with Vodalus, and we don't see Heathor ever again to my knowledge, do you know what happened to him? 2.) I understand why Dorcas left Sev, but we don't see her in the last volume, what is her fate? 3.) How did Vodalus die and how did Agia become ruler? 4.) Who was the opponent Sev was against in the battle in Vol 4? 5.) Is the Soldier Miles Jonas in a new body? 6.) What sort of mind game was Sev in when he tries to become Emperor? 7.) Does Thecla and Sev stay as one person? 8.) Who did the female soldier at camp marry for the greatest story? 9.) I still do not understand Baldanders's experiments and the three creatures that visit him in the castle, who/what are they? Thanks again for your help.
Hi Aaron. Sorry for the late response it is a hectic time of year for me. I will answer the ones I am sure of off the top of my head and get back to you on the others. 1) Hethor is Agia's "man" - I do not recall that he perishes in those final fights, and might at last be rewarded for his following of Agia, though I am not entirely clear on that one and need to look in the book. 2. We see Dorcas briefly when he returns on the boat at the end of Citadel, caring for the body of the old man who was her husband in life, who sought out her body at the lake of lost birds. She has returned to her shop, and I believe Severian entrusts a laser weapon to her son, the waiter Ouen (and most probably Sev's father), to defend her 3. Agia killed Vodalus with one of her poisoned weapons, usurping his power. 4. I am not sure which battle you are referring to. He is with the autarch when it is shot down and Vodalus captures them, but they are fighting the Ascians. Earlier, when they go to war, there is a strange moment when they make a deal with the Ascians for the contents of the transport, so that the sides are confused, as they also fight among each other quite a bit, from the looks of things. War is chaos. 5. I have never been entirely convinced it is actually Jonas. When Sev has a vision, he sees the face of a woman, but it could very well be the obsession that Jonas had for Jolenta or Sev's relationship with Severian. Once I fancied that Thecla was acting to resurrect a soldier lover from the past but Sev's subconscious desires intervened, but there is little to no textual evidence for that. Could be Jonas until someone thinks of a better explanation. 6. The analeptic alzabo does seem to somehow preserve cellular memories, which, according to the pseudoscience of Ultan the Librarian, in which a man is in his smallest cell, which can be "activated" somehow, but in Wolfe "spirit" is real and has an ambiguous relationship to matter. I think the psionic struggle between the man in the north and Sev when he still has little Sev (in volume 3) is evidence that mental extrasensory powers "work" in New Sun. 7. Yes, they are interwoven, though at one time I considered the possibility that Theclas might have fled into the body of Miles, but Sev still seems to have her memories. I don't think he enters the memory fugues as frequently after the third volume. 8. The camp ... I think she made her choice and everyone wound up being slaughtered, making the competition moot. I need to re-read that section. 9. The three creatures are the Hierodules, who travel backwards in time seeking to find the paragon of the human race who can be sent to the trial to redeem the planet earth and its offspring. The humans of this or a previous cycle eventually evolved into something called the Hieros, ascending to Yesod or elsewhere, a higher energy level. They raised up the Hierogrammates (Tzadkiel, the creature SEverian sees in the Autarch's mirror), who created the Hierodules, who are seen with their masks in the book of the new sun. They are seeking to manipulate humanity so that the Hieros can arrive, helping it achieve its destiny. Baldanders self-experiments are something of a dead end in emulating the sea powers, and are not truly transcendent. Hope that helps. I will research a few of these more. Sorry for the delay.
fire made the tent of the pelerines in the sky rise up? i thought it was the "last house" that he visits, where he tries to lead the old man outside and he disappears, that he sees. the one the pelerines send him to and tell him to bring the guy back if even by force. could you please explain? love your videos!
Hi Bobby. The last house is in a quite distinct geographical location (though what is a distance of space when time is involved, I suppose?) The fire which inadvertently begins when they crash into the tent of the pelerines eventually heats the air enough for the entire edifice to rise up, like a hot air balloon. The meaning in the text is of course that sometimes the numinous and mysterious symbolic explanations are much easier to discern than actual physical cause and effect (though, Wolfe being Wolfe, that cause and effect are usually there, even if at first the explanations on a rational level are simply not available - something can be miraculous and symbolic and still have a mechanistic explanation within the boundary of reality). The sovereign destiny which Severian has embarked upon is every bit as important as (or more important than) its herald, a tent becoming a castle in the sky.
thanks a lot for your response! i don't know anyone that likes these books as much as me except for you, so i really appreciate you making these videos.
Thanks so much. Something I never thought about before is the nifty trick Wolfe plays on God's promise to Noah in Genesis 9 "...Neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.” Of course, this flood didn't destroy the earth - it created it.
Maybe, but I think it was after if for no other reason than the smattering of 20th century artifacts in the books. Of course that's not a slam dunk argument considering that things/beings travel in both directions.
+Justin Robillard Coming back to this after a reread and thinking, I believe we can see it through a lense of multiple worlds in a different hierarchy, Urth being beneath ours. Sort of like in The Wizard Knight.
I will try to film it this week. I think it will be a good one, but I believe it is time to open up the big can of worms I have not mentioned in the videos to any degree ... Wolfe and gender representation. The Christian concept of original sin and the symbolic nature of Wolfe is, I feel, oversimplified by his critics, and I wanted to look at various audience responses to his work ...I have been putting it off but I hope to sit down and do it very soon.
Do you mean the way he writes female characters? I see people object to that a lot about him, as if it discredits him from being truly 'literary' or whatever, but no one ever says that of Henry Miller or Cormac McCarthy. I think people just home in on it because Wolfe is an easier target for it, being a writer easily relegated to the genre bins. I look forward to the next video, it sounds interesting.
shadow and claw is an omnibus that includes both volume 1 shadow of the torturer and volume 2 claw of the conciliator ... I dont recommend my videos if you haven't read Wolfe once or twice, in general. Originally The Book of the New Sun was 4 volumes, but in the 1990s Tor reprinted them as 2: shadow and claw/sword and citadel.
+Marc Aramini Oh okay Thank you so much. I just ordered my copy of Shadow and Claw... so i'm hoping it will be great!. In fact this will be my first book i will read from Gene Wolfe :). Thanks for the reply once again
this is the kind of question I so rarely field in my discussion of Wolfe, but a good one because how we feel about the characters forges our connection to the text. I like Dr. Talos quite a bit, Hethor a bit more, and Severian very much. Baldanders is too plodding for me - as a reader I relate to the little, quick psuedo-villain in general. Do you like them? Talos's lines are genuinely funny. Thanks for watching.
I can't remember Hethor, can you remind me? As for Dr. Talos and Bladanders I like a lot. They are a mystery and their names are cool. In Volume I do not undertand what happened to Jonas when he and Severian were captured. Also was Jolanda a Siren of sort?
*In Volume II I meant to say with Jonas and that other dude with the the other guy who joins at the end of volume I, can't remember his name but he had the mule and weak chin.
*Sorry again for the confusion. I just remembered Hether, he's the one with the weak chin and stutters. "I the old captain," I'm halfway through Vol III right now and can't remember what happened to Hethor and Jonas in captivity.
+aaron chanenko yes Hethor is the stuttering fellow. i dont want to spoil the book for you but eventually in Claw Jonas finds the mirrors after Sev uses Thecla's memory to escape the waiting room and returns to "somewhere", vaguely promising to return. Hethor avoids him for reasons which should be clear during volume 3. all the best.
I love this book, but religion is so easily picked apart,what is cool is the attempt to expand religion into something bigger than our universe, that could just be science. But let’s be real the green man sucks
This is probably the best video on youtube about the book of the new sun. For the first time I wish a video was like two or three times longer.
*That said* ... I love BOTNS but only read the original 4 novels. Will read Urth of the new sun soon (took a break to read something else after book 4). The one thing I really disliked was the green man, the implications of the green man, and the also some of the ideas Gene had on humanity.
It seems to me that Gene sees humanity and progress as a destructive force. The Ascians are an allegory for the USSR (they also aren't from Asia but from the north, so .. Russians/USSR) it seems but it's more than that. They are also an allegory for capitalism, democracy, progress in general. Gene seems to imply that we are too evil to be able to progress. That it's bad for humanity to cross the stars since we just bring our wars etc with us. Essentially the only good way forward is for humanity to be wiped out and another humanoid species to take its place.
I mean they shut the roads, enforce class systems and just horrific abuses to make people completely docile, dumb and obedient. All in the name of a better future, not for their kids, not for their planet, not for the human species as we know it, but a completely new humanoid species that for all I know isn't even remotely related to us. So in that sense it's kinda what the God Emperor of Dune seems to do (I haven't read Dune yet because I've seen so much dune content I memorized much of the story). Enact this horrific period of suffering, repression, and dictatorship.. but more as a means to teach humanity a lesson. While the Autarch's seem to do it so humanity won't realize they are planning to wipe them out, and won't progress technologically or socially till then.
Not only don't I agree with this sentiment. I don't agree how it's presented.. also find it weird that the Ascians are supposed to represent the progress ("destructive human progress") or at least "progress regardless of how".
Lastly, as someone that is practically a carnivore .. I HATE any type of vegan future that is in books or media. The idea that vegan life styles are morally superior or something to strife for is one of my pet peeves in fiction.
This is one of the best discussions I've ever seen on BoTNS
Thank you so much for these videos, Marc! I've recently been reading through the archives of the Urth mailing list, and your posts (especially those wonderful Short Stories write-ups!) have definitely been a highlight. I greatly appreciate all the deep thought and hard work you've been putting into explicating the mysteries of Wolfe for all these years. As an aside, I couldn't agree more with you about the deficiencies of Peter Wright's Attending Daedulus -- the contortions he puts himself (and the reader) through to somehow stuff the Book of the New Sun into an atheistic framework would be impressive if it weren't so insulting.
But anyway, please keep these coming! They really are terrific.
Thanks Shannon I appreciate it. Glad you had a chance to see some of the short story write ups, definitely the biggest project I have ever undertaken. I have about 103 more to go ... I hope to be able to finish it up this year. Thanks for listening and I think when I do a video of Long and Short Sun it will have slightly more focus than this New Sun discussion.
One minor correction - he reaches Thrax and the costume party with Cyriaca is in Sword of the Lictor, not Claw of the Conciliator.
I love the parallel of Talos and Baldanders being the Antichrist and the False Prophet
I totally missed that.
I bought a big freaking sword because of this book.
Hey, can you make a video talking about the plot of the four volumes and what and who represents in the Book of the New Sun? This is a really tricky book. Thanks again.
Just buy his book, Between Light and Shadow. It has on-point analysis of much of Gene Wolfe's best work.
Nice to see a straightforward analysis of the work, rather than a postmodern denigration of it.
Thanks, the green man was something that baffled and bothered me, but I will re-read in the light (no pun) of your comments.
Well done! And most enjoyable.
I have a question and it’s a serious one, (although I think and will accept “magic” as the answer) how does severian resurrect himself? If he has a power does that power not stop once he dies? Unless it’s not his power, as he seems to have no control over it. ( I am ignoring the claw too, I think the claw was a red herring )
Is there a Part 2 for this? I can't find it. The next video appears to cover Wolfe and gender stuff.
long sun and short sun vids, the sixth and seventh videos, but they are not explicitly about New Sun except as that series intersects those. Spoilers beyond belief, of course.
Thanks for the reply. Maybe I shouldn't watch those yet... These are great videos by the way.
Hey Marc great series, since this video ive watched all of your youtube content and its awesome. A quick question regarding Sword the Lictor.
!(Spoilers)!
In the end of the story, Terminus Est and the Claw are both destroyed. Severian finds pieces of the gem scattered below the castle, then miraculously, he finds a new claw (either in the bushes or in the ocean, the writing here is unclear to me) that has a different colored gem inside.
Is this here to insinuate that the claw really has no power after all and that he is simply the one who is bringing these people back to life (by his choosing)?
It seemed to me he reached a state where he no longer questioned the claw anymore, but rather was just happy to have a new one around his neck to give him that sense of comfort once again. Again it was hard to understand this ending because it happens in the span of a couple of paragraphs, but I went back and re-read it several times and still couldnt wrap my head around it. Thanks again, and cant wait for the next video!
Have you read Urth of the New Sun? When the gem broke, he picked up the thorn which was the "flaw" inside the gem ... this thorn was the "real" claw. It winds up in the altar of the Pelerines. Later, he will pick another thorn from a bush, and this will be saturated in his blood, and the mixing, thanks to a time loop in Urth of the New Sun, will be ensconced in a gem that becomes the claw. Thus the power is at least partially in Severian's blood, but the affinity the claw has for him (and the one that Severian has for the bush in the Botanic Gardens in Shadow of the Torturer)is a resonance of almost sympathetic magic. Severian probably resurrects Triskele, the smallest of "those dead", long before he gets the claw. However, much as the affinity for the White Fountain permits Severian's powers, the Claw might have some special characteriatics, despite the powerful denouement of Citadel, in which all thorns (and all things) are declared relics that have fallen from the hand of the Pancreator.
Marc Aramini Thanks for the quick response. The end passage where he finds the pieces of the gem makes alot more sense to me now,
"Yet it shone, a claw as long as the last joint of my smallest finger, cruelly hooked and needle-pointed, the reality of that dark core at the heart of the gem, which must have been no more than a container for it."
By referencing the parallels you presented, in that the story has all these reverse meanings, it makes sense that the "Dark Core" would produce such an intense White light. Then Severian sits there looking out at the waves and then back at the tiny claw with this "obedience without reflection", it seems to me he is very eager to obey this "real" claw, and even says it is not out of reverence (although I believe it is).
I will have to check out Urth as well now upon your recommendation, there is just so much meat to these books, and it is a shame there isnt more of a community to discuss them because they really do invoke some excellent philosophical ideas and questions.
Great analysis, thank you.
Thanks - I try not to say too much about New Sun because I feel it will always be commented upon by Wolfe fans, and I make more authoritative claims about his other less discussed books. Might do a few more videos soon. Glad you enjoyed it.
I was interested in picking up a copy of that hardcover SF Book Club edition of Book of the New Sun, but I remembering hearing something about it being poorly printed/printed on low quality paper. What're your thoughts on the edition?
Well it has slightly better art than the gollancz one volume with the curiously (nonsensically) titled Severian of the Guild. My favorite non limited editions are the latest sf masterworks ones with very colorful cover art but they are of course softback in the same configuration as shadow and claw/sword and citadel. The paper quality is ok On the sfbc book but it clearly isn’t a high end hardback book. I’d say if you really want a one volume hardback then it is the best option, but there aren’t any truly excellent options.
I really love the purple prose of the series, but the other Wolfe books that I've bought weren't written is this style and I didn't like them too much.
Your analysis is excellent, but did Wolfe commented any of the "mysteries" in the Book of the new sun? The text feels too "open" - religious, deterministic etc interpretations could be all plausable.
Sorry for the delay in answering. There are various interviews collected online (one of the best of them is with James Jordan, where Wolfe's religious principles come to the fore). I think what you are looking for is actually answered in this explicitly section from the asimov, wolfe, and ellison video ua-cam.com/video/PpNbr4vupHk/v-deo.html Here he is saying that people have the freedom to be terrible villains or saints, and this is explicitly Catholic. We are not determined by our environment. I think Wolfe leaves his texts open for just such a reason, though he has a worldview and a solution in mind. I find Wright's readings, Naturalistic determinism, reductionist in the extreme and almost anathema to Catholic ideology. While Wolfe's narrators are not always good and are certainly subject to forces beyond their control, they way that they choose to respond either leads them closer to the divine or further away from it. Sometimes imitation leads to genuine redemption. In my mind the solar cycle is explicitly religious (while Pirate Freedom is ironically undercutting the casuistry of a priest who justifies his own evil to himself).
Also do you think that Wolfe will in time be recognized as a classic? How important is he considered to be in academic circles?
I hope so, but anti-intellectualism in general makes it a 50-50 gambit in my mind. He deserves a place in serious academia as more than a niche writer. I think colleges gravitate to utopian/dystopian or sf which easily fits a marxist or gender agenda, but in an artistic sense institutions which venerate the palimpsest of Joyce and Melville should make a place for Wolfe, who certainly deserves that veneration. I feel Sf programs must acknowledge him after the 2013 grandmaster award but that teachers fear the very real possibility of misreading him even by an intelligent reader and latch onto easier writers with either historical impact or trendier modern polish.
His eccentricities make his art ( as for Joyce, Melville, or even the more modern but for some reason academically respected Pynchon) and I hope someday he is loved for the right reason, as a sincere but cryptic artist capable of very powerful emotional scenes and subtle plotting while referencing just about everything under the sun. Ironically the huge range of references in his work make it seem stranger than it often is, for publishing has exploded beyond the point where a man of letters can have working knowledge of everything.
The huge, easy data dump of the internet makes reading Wolfe easier, but the joy of searching for a reference or a name I suspected was important when I was young in a weighty reference tome makes Wolfe feel like a uniquely personal writer to me, that we shared a world of common knowledge. Whether this is exclusive to more casual readers is the risk Wolfe runs, but I feel his plot is enough to carry him. After all, I loved his books even in the fourth or fifth grade. I am a bit appalled by some of the instant resistance to Wolfe some first time readers get, readers who should be capable enough to understand there is something behind the omissions and narrative breaks besides "sound and fury".
Perhaps the one thing Wolfe does which is universal is depict the isolated and neglected youth who feels cast out. The short stories in The island of doctor death and other stories and other stories show this very well, and it may be in years to come that it is that, rather than his grandiose far future exploration of the redesign and evolution of man into something more, that simple feeling of longing loneliness, finding refuge in books and the eidolons of heroes and villains, will in turn immortalize Wolfe. Whether he ever gets the recognition he deserves, up there with Shakespeare, without hyperbole, is actually secondary to the gratefulness I feel that Wolfe lives in my time, an artist and a genius who speaks so well to the silence inside (for me, anyway).
Things that push agendas have as far as I know in long term lost all or most of importance so hopefully the void will be filled with Wolfe.
Marc Aramini That last paragraph is maybe the most beautiful things I've ever read.
@@marcaramini9794 your above response is beyond a doubt the best UA-cam comment I have ever read. That may not be saying much but it is something that matters to me. I am very moved.
I liked the video as well and look forward to watching the next 4. I'm gearing up to reread this series whilst adhering to shelter in place recommendations (due to Covid-19).
Something fundamental here. It's been a long time, and I very much want to reread the series after watching your vid, but wasn't the Green Man from a future in which the New Sun never came? Wasn't the turn to using solar energy directly a result of there not being enough to grow food? I may be somehow mixing his timeline up with Ash?? argh. Must reread.
Andrew Rose ash is where it never comes, the green man implies the sun is much brighter in his time.
thanks!
Also the green man is severian in an alt universe
Marc Aramini, I've just finished "The Book of the New Sun" I really enjoyed it but was left confused, is it okay if you can help me with the following questions?
Warning Spolers!
1.) Heathor was in book four with Vodalus, and we don't see Heathor ever again to my knowledge, do you know what happened to him?
2.) I understand why Dorcas left Sev, but we don't see her in the last volume, what is her fate?
3.) How did Vodalus die and how did Agia become ruler?
4.) Who was the opponent Sev was against in the battle in Vol 4?
5.) Is the Soldier Miles Jonas in a new body?
6.) What sort of mind game was Sev in when he tries to become Emperor?
7.) Does Thecla and Sev stay as one person?
8.) Who did the female soldier at camp marry for the greatest story?
9.) I still do not understand Baldanders's experiments and the three creatures that visit him in the castle, who/what are they?
Thanks again for your help.
Hi Aaron. Sorry for the late response it is a hectic time of year for me. I will answer the ones I am sure of off the top of my head and get back to you on the others. 1) Hethor is Agia's "man" - I do not recall that he perishes in those final fights, and might at last be rewarded for his following of Agia, though I am not entirely clear on that one and need to look in the book.
2. We see Dorcas briefly when he returns on the boat at the end of Citadel, caring for the body of the old man who was her husband in life, who sought out her body at the lake of lost birds. She has returned to her shop, and I believe Severian entrusts a laser weapon to her son, the waiter Ouen (and most probably Sev's father), to defend her
3. Agia killed Vodalus with one of her poisoned weapons, usurping his power.
4. I am not sure which battle you are referring to. He is with the autarch when it is shot down and Vodalus captures them, but they are fighting the Ascians. Earlier, when they go to war, there is a strange moment when they make a deal with the Ascians for the contents of the transport, so that the sides are confused, as they also fight among each other quite a bit, from the looks of things. War is chaos.
5. I have never been entirely convinced it is actually Jonas. When Sev has a vision, he sees the face of a woman, but it could very well be the obsession that Jonas had for Jolenta or Sev's relationship with Severian. Once I fancied that Thecla was acting to resurrect a soldier lover from the past but Sev's subconscious desires intervened, but there is little to no textual evidence for that. Could be Jonas until someone thinks of a better explanation.
6. The analeptic alzabo does seem to somehow preserve cellular memories, which, according to the pseudoscience of Ultan the Librarian, in which a man is in his smallest cell, which can be "activated" somehow, but in Wolfe "spirit" is real and has an ambiguous relationship to matter. I think the psionic struggle between the man in the north and Sev when he still has little Sev (in volume 3) is evidence that mental extrasensory powers "work" in New Sun.
7. Yes, they are interwoven, though at one time I considered the possibility that Theclas might have fled into the body of Miles, but Sev still seems to have her memories. I don't think he enters the memory fugues as frequently after the third volume.
8. The camp ... I think she made her choice and everyone wound up being slaughtered, making the competition moot. I need to re-read that section.
9. The three creatures are the Hierodules, who travel backwards in time seeking to find the paragon of the human race who can be sent to the trial to redeem the planet earth and its offspring. The humans of this or a previous cycle eventually evolved into something called the Hieros, ascending to Yesod or elsewhere, a higher energy level. They raised up the Hierogrammates (Tzadkiel, the creature SEverian sees in the Autarch's mirror), who created the Hierodules, who are seen with their masks in the book of the new sun. They are seeking to manipulate humanity so that the Hieros can arrive, helping it achieve its destiny. Baldanders self-experiments are something of a dead end in emulating the sea powers, and are not truly transcendent.
Hope that helps. I will research a few of these more. Sorry for the delay.
I kept trying to figure out what he was trying to do. all the way through.
Carl Jung would enjoy those books a lot. There are so many alchemical & hermetical symbols in here.
fire made the tent of the pelerines in the sky rise up? i thought it was the "last house" that he visits, where he tries to lead the old man outside and he disappears, that he sees. the one the pelerines send him to and tell him to bring the guy back if even by force. could you please explain? love your videos!
Hi Bobby. The last house is in a quite distinct geographical location (though what is a distance of space when time is involved, I suppose?) The fire which inadvertently begins when they crash into the tent of the pelerines eventually heats the air enough for the entire edifice to rise up, like a hot air balloon. The meaning in the text is of course that sometimes the numinous and mysterious symbolic explanations are much easier to discern than actual physical cause and effect (though, Wolfe being Wolfe, that cause and effect are usually there, even if at first the explanations on a rational level are simply not available - something can be miraculous and symbolic and still have a mechanistic explanation within the boundary of reality). The sovereign destiny which Severian has embarked upon is every bit as important as (or more important than) its herald, a tent becoming a castle in the sky.
thanks a lot for your response! i don't know anyone that likes these books as much as me except for you, so i really appreciate you making these videos.
You’re one of our remaining links to him.
Thanks so much. Something I never thought about before is the nifty trick Wolfe plays on God's promise to Noah in Genesis 9 "...Neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.” Of course, this flood didn't destroy the earth - it created it.
And of course all of this could have happened long before Noah...
Justin Robillard I think it was before Christ.
PinkyIvan And before Noah
Maybe, but I think it was after if for no other reason than the smattering of 20th century artifacts in the books. Of course that's not a slam dunk argument considering that things/beings travel in both directions.
+Justin Robillard Coming back to this after a reread and thinking, I believe we can see it through a lense of multiple worlds in a different hierarchy, Urth being beneath ours.
Sort of like in The Wizard Knight.
Any idea when the next video is coming?
I will try to film it this week. I think it will be a good one, but I believe it is time to open up the big can of worms I have not mentioned in the videos to any degree ... Wolfe and gender representation. The Christian concept of original sin and the symbolic nature of Wolfe is, I feel, oversimplified by his critics, and I wanted to look at various audience responses to his work ...I have been putting it off but I hope to sit down and do it very soon.
Do you mean the way he writes female characters? I see people object to that a lot about him, as if it discredits him from being truly 'literary' or whatever, but no one ever says that of Henry Miller or Cormac McCarthy. I think people just home in on it because Wolfe is an easier target for it, being a writer easily relegated to the genre bins. I look forward to the next video, it sounds interesting.
Yes, Henry Miller was going to be one of my examples ... good lord, there's a real sexist.
Please someone answer.... what is the difference between shadow and the claw compared to The Shadow of the Torturer, They say they are both volume 1
shadow and claw is an omnibus that includes both volume 1 shadow of the torturer and volume 2 claw of the conciliator ... I dont recommend my videos if you haven't read Wolfe once or twice, in general. Originally The Book of the New Sun was 4 volumes, but in the 1990s Tor reprinted them as 2: shadow and claw/sword and citadel.
+Marc Aramini Oh okay Thank you so much. I just ordered my copy of Shadow and Claw... so i'm hoping it will be great!. In fact this will be my first book i will read from Gene Wolfe :). Thanks for the reply once again
crazyvideoguy1 hope you enjoy them! Wolfe is a unique artist.
+Marc Aramini Hopefully once i'm done with this one.. i will move on to volume 3-4. Btw is there any need for me to get The shadow of the torturer ?
+crazyvideoguy1 no it is all included in Shadow and claw
Do you like Dr. Talos and Baldanders?
this is the kind of question I so rarely field in my discussion of Wolfe, but a good one because how we feel about the characters forges our connection to the text. I like Dr. Talos quite a bit, Hethor a bit more, and Severian very much. Baldanders is too plodding for me - as a reader I relate to the little, quick psuedo-villain in general. Do you like them? Talos's lines are genuinely funny. Thanks for watching.
I can't remember Hethor, can you remind me?
As for Dr. Talos and Bladanders I like a lot. They are a mystery and their names are cool.
In Volume I do not undertand what happened to Jonas when he and Severian were captured. Also was Jolanda a Siren of sort?
*In Volume II I meant to say with Jonas and that other dude with the the other guy who joins at the end of volume I, can't remember his name but he had the mule and weak chin.
*Sorry again for the confusion. I just remembered Hether, he's the one with the weak chin and stutters. "I the old captain,"
I'm halfway through Vol III right now and can't remember what happened to Hethor and Jonas in captivity.
+aaron chanenko yes Hethor is the stuttering fellow. i dont want to spoil the book for you but eventually in Claw Jonas finds the mirrors after Sev uses Thecla's memory to escape the waiting room and returns to "somewhere", vaguely promising to return. Hethor avoids him for reasons which should be clear during volume 3. all the best.
namaste
yeah... Gene Wolfe was brilliant. lets hope he will be left alone....
I love this book, but religion is so easily picked apart,what is cool is the attempt to expand religion into something bigger than our universe, that could just be science. But let’s be real the green man sucks