All the supplements were super interesting, great idea from GW. I went into collecting marines as my 3rd army because I wanted a heavy weapons army and a few years later the iron hands supplement popped. 9th customization has been so fun and I hope the detachments we'll get after index hammer are a little more flavorful and less "cinematic". I played a 6 heavy weapons list today and it was glorious fun (lost the game, barely).
I mean technically Prince Yriel, which is already a playable character for Iyanden, is the arguably greatest Eldar pirate Captain to ever live (eldritch raiders) . So if anything unless we get more characters, he should be good to lead corsairs
Yeah I'm hoping Yriel gets a resculpt and the anrathe get their own rules for themselves and more models. But atleast, datasheets to make them stand out more like the tyranid genestealer divide, like maybe their own take on wind riders and raiders that they can take with their own rules. Wed just need a generic captain and you can make Yriel an option for them and itd be sick
@@Some_Cool_Dude I personally prefer Duke Traevelliath Sliscus, the leader of the Sky Serpents. One of the rare individuals, that actually can cut through the plot armor of Space Marine protagonists and so won a duell against one in their own book and took one of the hearths as a souvenir. I agree it would be great to see some love for some corsair characters.
My local space wolf player is so happy he gets a unique suppliment. As an iron hands player I can’t help but be happy for him, but it but feel sad I will lose mine.
As a White Scars player, I feel the same. I've just watched GW give away to everyone else all the things that were unique to my army. But the Favoured are all going to get their own special stuff. Doesn't seem fair
@@craigbattson8436 bro im with you. i might have to sell my army at this rate. i spent years mastering a weak army to the point of being able to win 80 percent of my games no matter the meta. that pride is just being stripped away and now it seems we're just... a space marine chapter. honestly even worse than being mostly ignored. at least we had some cool rules that made us stand out and be fun to play.
@@aunderiskerensky2304 lol being able to win 80% of your games with a bottom meta army just means you were stomping casual players, not beating the people that win tournaments
Pretty ballsy of GW to say "no, it's weird to have epic heroes of different chapters fighting in the same army" when they just released a book in which the Blood Angels show up with both Dante and the Lion leading them.
I’m new to the hobby and picked ultras for their well-roundedness and flexibility. I know other players don’t want to just play green/white/yellow ultramarines, and I don’t really want them to either. Some of us picked our factions for reasons beyond the paint scheme. I was immediately drawn to the fall back and re-engage tactics, and thought it accurately depicted their lore as masters of strategy and adaptability, while not specializing in one particular thing. Now everyone gets access to this ability while simultaneously losing the rules that made them special. Just feels bad all around. I liked the different flavors that salamanders, iron hands, white scars etc brought with their army rules. I know I shouldn’t be complaining as an ultramarine player, we are as vanilla as it gets, but at least we still brought some unique tricks to the table in 9th.
You got every right to complain, buddy. It sucks to lose that uniqueness. However, you could also view the whole Codex as Codex Astartes? Laying out how to build different detachments from your Jack of All Trades Ultramarines! You really can do it all with all these detachments!
Proves all of my consternations regarding 10th right. It will be years before my faction gets touched again and when it does prepare for 11th Edition. This hobby goes out of its way to become forgotten.
well us Red Corsairs do have a named character and not only does he look like shit in his finecast glory but is also mediocre. oh and also we have the lowest play rate and win rate of the codex. oh and also the absolute worst relic/WLT/stratagem list of the codex. oh and also bikers are our core and their models come straight from the 90s. victory for the Tyrant of Badab either way, brother in treachery.
@@yaboifoxbeing a Chaos player has been pain for years 😂 we had a few months of being on top when our 9th codex came out but now it’s back to pain again 😂😂
@@nicobrady1596 And now the pain of being within the initial codex wave, so likely CSM players will get saddled with a more 'restrained' codex instead of getting to play the power creep game... Add to this CSM's got a healthy sized model release in 9th, despite most of it being a bunch of mortal trash - including the insulting fething JOKE of a Cultist kit. (...we seriously waited 10 YEARS for that pile of mono posed BS?!) Odds are CSM's will get just the token 1 model with their codex, and it probably will not be an actual, viable Chaos Lord kit. Yes, yes I know, "whiny CSM players are never happy, blah, blah, blah..." I'll just laugh when the 10th ed codex restricts every single Chaos Lord in the game to exactly a 'plasma pistol + thunder hammer' only, because "no model no rule - hurr-dur!" I mean, they've already done just that with our so-called Exalted Champion option. (combi-melta & power axe only - how dare you ask for options!) Thank god I jumped ship and moved onto Deathguard & World Eaters as my spiky boyz armies
I can't help but wonder if the reason why GW doesn't show support to the "codex compliant" chapters has to have something to do with popularity. And if that's the case I question whether the reason why chapters like Imperial Fists or Salamanders are less popular purely because people like them less, OR they're less popular because GW constantly shafts them, thus making them inferior choices which in turn leads to them being fielded less, then GW looks at the numbers and sees them not being played and says "Huh, guess they're not popular" As of right now I don't really see much of a reason to field my marines if the chapter's aren't getting specific stratagems. I field my marines as Salamander Successors currently, but if they take away the strategies that make them unique then I have no reason to play them. It sounds like the codex chapters are basically going to be Blue Marines or Green Marines instead of Ultramarines or Salamanders, and I'm not fielding Blood Angels for an entire edition just to feel unique
if thats the case, Im interested to see when the space wolf codex will be released then. index cards will be great. but being my first actual turn of the new edition im excited either way.
I suspect it could work like Age of Sigmar subfactions. Named characters with a specific Subfaction listed can still go into any other Subfaction, but only gain those rules if you're running their listed Subfaction. So Guilliman can run in Imperial Fists, but will only benefit from the Subfaction if it's Ultramarines.
There's no subfactions besides named characters. An Imperial Fist army led by Guilleman plays the same as an Ultramarines army led by Guilleman (assuming they picked the same detachment). Guilleman just excludes named characters from other chapters from being used.
It seems asinine to have some chapters be entire factions in themselves instead of just making them different in a few key ways. Give Ultramarines extra command points, give Ravenguard the ability to deep strike better than other factions, make Imperial Fists super good with bolters, etc. Little tweaks to make them different so you can make the characters slightly different to compensate. It’s so easy. It’s okay to have few differences if those differences are important.
This is kinda difficult for Space Marines but I'm really happy in regards to things like Orks and Eldar, where the subfactions mostly come down to being good at using an archetype of unit. Means you don't have to go for a new paint scheme if you want to expand into a new type of unit and still play optimally. Kinda feel especially bad for Iron Hands because they feel like they'll need less applicable to other chapters rules, but I guess they had their win with 9th.
And don't forget, I feel pretty confident that we are getting 2 NEW factions in 10th. Emperor's Children and Dark Mechanicum are almost certainly coming.
I picked Raven Guard becuase of their cool lore and unique tactics. I just started learning 9th when 10th was announced. I havent even played my first game yet and this bums me out.
I feel you (Salamanders player). But!! You may want to start your own Raven Guard Successor Chapter? Keep all the cool stuff but you can make your own too and use any detachment you want without feeling like you're not Raven Guard enough?
They will release specific stealthy detachment for Raven Guard playstyle and you still have a few unique character that distinct you as Raven Guard. It better that way, 9th subfaction gameplay was very swingy, with one subfaction clearly better then others and Raven Guard was on weak side, no longer the case now
I strongly suspect we'll get a detachment, but seems that if this is the case, we'll have to wait for the codex. Maybe they'll tease it in the run up to that release. Not the longest wait but would still be nice to confirm this rather than leave us hanging.
@@vittoriofinizzi824 We had no models? And there will be rules for the chapters. Think of the beginning of 8th. All is at low level, but than the power selling of GW gives us Power Rules for Faction, so dont worry, they will never change that.
I swear, the armies i have going are all raising thr biggest questions/alarms with the more info we get about 10th. First i was questioning what was happening to my Sisters of Battle, with combi weapons. Then my Aeldari army takes a massive hit to the psychic changes. Now im wondering whats going to happen with drukhari covens, cults, and Kabals.
Seems like there isn't really any incentive to run as a codex chapter other than Ultramarines, especially with the preview of Guilliman's rules and the additional characters and units they have, compared to the others.
As a Crimson Fists guy since Rogue Trader, at least they've been giving us Pedro Kantor in the past few editions, plus some extra rules of late. It's the 'make your own Chapter' guys that get totally shafted though.
@@matthewberry3055 Fair point, as an Imperial Fists player, at least I have a couple of characters with Tor and Lysander. The custom chapter folks get the short end of the stick for sure.
@@UEFwarhawk Fo sure man. It doesnt really bug me that much (we earn our victories the hard way in true Fists fashion) but I do feel for the peeps that go to great efforts to paint up 'your guys' and get shafted every edition.
In 5th edition and IRRC 6th edition, special characters didn't have any subfaction restrictions so you could totally have Kayvann Shrike and Marneus Calgar in the same army list. Was that a smart thing to do? No lol but you could do it.
But Ultramarines wasn't a thing. It was just SMs. My buddy had Grey Space Marines and he would swap out named Characters willy nilly. I'm glad I won't have to face off against BA led by BobbyG. If GW allowed divergent Chapters to mix and match HQs I would for sure quit 40k until 11th
I admire your optimistic undertones as you outlay a very deliberate informative video. If it is loyalty to GW or just the game itself, hats off to you sir. I however cant help but feel empty after hearing the 10thEd news. 18months of getting into 40k with my son and how he lit up with excitement when he grew his Iron warriors to decimate my White Scars. Now to find out the essence of tactics, doctrines, Strategem's that made our armies unique are now gone! Yes we can stay in 9th and see out our days but my son had dreams of tournament entries to build his self esteem and confidence. Alas our local stores have informed us they will have to stay by the GW rules and move to 10th once its out in full. Thankyou for delivering great content, we have enjoyed and learned so much from you. Stay safe and be true to yourself.
Faction rules are not going away, as we saw they will still be making Codexes for Space Marines sub factions. We still do not know what they are planning. Personally the changes to Doctrines are amazing for Marines.
Exactly! I really don't understand the over enthusiasm about dumbing the game down to the point where nothing will feel unique. This isn't some attempt to make 40K a smoother game to play with "less books" to go go through for rules etc. They just implemented Age of Sigmar as their rules approach. There will still be the traditional GW gaffs to rules for certain armies and units, but this time you won't have 20 options to choose from to deal with it.. You'll have two! Lol. All it will take is the first month to go by before you will start hearing the massive problems with armies in this game.. And wouldnt ya know, you'll have to wait two years again for your army to get a new book to hope and pray those issues are remedied
As a white scars player for the last 2 editions... I'm a bit worried my flavor of army and fact that they ARE painted as white scars and run em pretty fluffy won't make sense :( Man can't they give the white scars some love... A character or two new and a speeder or some shit idc anything plz. Still waiting on my 9th codex and now 10th comen out and I don't see white armor anywhere :'(
Hold fast brother, there are dozens of us worldwide! Jokes aside, I really wish they'd give those chapters more love. They are underloved because they get no attention I feel.
Am I understanding this correctly?: Only characters/unique subfaction units will be restricted by the subfacton rule, so you could have an army of white scar painted units led by Guilliman & other Ultramarine characters as well as ultramarine honor guards? And unless it's stated otherwise when the codex comes out, I presume this would allow you to basically run ultramarine-specific detachment rules with this army, since the paint on your normal units are pretty much for aesthetics only?
On your first point: yes, you could have a white scars painted force lead by ultramarines painted Roboute, Marneus, Tigerius etc. So long as you have no white scars characters like Ko'Sarro. You might get some funny looks, but that would be perfectly legal. On your second point, the detachments won't be locked to subfactions, per se. The codex will have a bunch of detachments which represent different ways of fighting, but none of them will be sub faction exclusive. For kind of an idea of this look at the current guard codex's army special rules; you have named special rules with fluff text saying what sort of army might be represented by the rule, like cult of sacrifice being associated with krieg, but you can run any guard units with that rule, cadians with cult of sacrifice is legal. In your example, there might be a codex space marines detachment which has a heavy emphasis on bikes. Its flavour text would say that the white scars favour this type of warfare, but you would likely be able to run Roboute Guilliman in the detachment.
Also it should be said that there will not be subfaction rules, as we know them now, inside a codex. White scars and ultramarines will not have different rules and can take the same detachments.
Wish we could mix blood angels and dark angels in matched play. They even did this in the latest warhammer plus battle report. I know soup leads to imbalance but it makes the hobby side far less repetitive.
I wish they would of kept the supplement version for divergent chapters. It made rule updates so much cleaner and kept weirdness out when they added more general units. I'm also not huge if they put Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights back in the same book after putting so much effort into differentiating them this edition.
makes some sense, to be honest I'm glad the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templars are all back to being unique again. It'll be interesting to see what they can and can't take going forwards, especially since historically Sternguard aren't something Dark Angels or Space Wolves can take and now they're in the launch box? I hope their ability to take bladeguard means they can, since I'd really like to paint those guys up in caliban green as primaris company veterans.
They've already stated in a Q&A that Space Wolves don't have Apothecaries but there's one of those in the launch box. It's possible Sternguard also won't go with some chapters. Guess we'll see
World Eaters can get a Chaos Lord _after_ my Craftworlds get the complete plastic Phoenix Lords & Aspect Warrior range to replace the derp that was designed in the 90s and otts. 😝
Seems odd to me that the original legions in the Iron Hands, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Salamanders and Raven Guard are just basically getting lumped in as general Space Marines (i.e ultramarines), whilst a successor chapter in the Black Templars gets to be their own unique faction. There should at least be a codex for all major space marine factions IMO to reflect their deep lore, differences etc. Space Marines are the most popular faction in 40k, pushing everyone who takes them to a handful of 'unique chapters' I think is not the right way to go, this will just lead to those other chapters like the White Scars being even less popular, and thus they will get even less minis/attention, which then in turn makes them less popular, rinse repeat I reckon. I personally think all the original space marine legions, plus the distinct traitor ones should be their own factions, plus then Black Templars and Death Guard. Also saying this as a BA fan.
Thank you man, fully agree. I've got nearly 10.000 points of White Scars painted and it's always fun to play with them and I love their lore, so seeing them just become "marines" is heartwrenching. They were one of the few legions to fight during the Siege on Terra. They are one of the original chapters. It's so silly it's become a popularity contest now.
@@RaengStinger Wow 10k points nice man, congrats on that alone. But yeh it's silly, part of the reason the other chapters are less popular is because GW doesn't give them much attention, particularly unique minis, so of course when people come to chose chapters and they see these cool minis for Dark Angels or Space Wolves or Black Templars etc. they are going to chose those factions. But when you look at the lore, how they fight etc. the likes of White Scars or Iron Hands etc. are really cool and deserve some more love. I'm just a lucky BA fan, I just chose them because well I like red (football related) and the really cool box art on the 2nd edition box way back when I started. But now I can go to GW site, and I can buy BA specific characters like Mephiston, Dante, etc. giving those chapters more attention, more minis, making them specific factions would get them more popular. For your sake alone I hope the Khan return rumours end up being true and you at least end up with a cool primarch model in 10th.
@@tajj7 A good friend of mine plays BA too, and he found out after year or so that he was in a pretty unique situation. He asked me why I never brought any "specific White Scar marine models" and he was shocked to learn there weren't any except for one HQ (Khan on bike was already discontinued). Hope we'll get some new love in the future. That said, Blood Angels are super cool too, you should be happy!! Fantastic Legion.
@@RaengStinger Yeh just looked, basically one dude. Don't know if you know but there is a very nice White Scars bike guy in Kill Team Cassius (Jetek Suberei, White Scars Biker Sergeant), but very expensive purchase for one model!
Of my favorite armies, AdMech and Grey Knights don't seem to get affected by this, but I'm really not happy that White Scars are bassically just White Ultramarines now -- especially when it feels like they're contradicting their own intent. If the point is to level chapters to the same power level, why are so many divergent chapters getting their own rules. It really kinda just stings all around.
I wanted to start a marines army in 9th but I had no clue what chapter I wanted to paint them as. The decision paralysis was pretty wild. Eventually I settled on painting them as Deathwatch not because I wanted to play them necessarily (though I still do), but I figured thematically and lore wise it would make sense for captains of different chapters to run their armies differently. That way I could play Fists one game, then Ultramarines or White Scars the next.
All the more reason to make my own edition of 40k... As if the psychic powers debacle and the loadout decimations (Oh, how i HATED the "accursed weapons" bs instead of just having lightning claws, power mauls, etc. on my Chaos terminators)...
For space marines I’ve been rocking ultramarines, blood angels and salamanders.. was about to pull the trigger on iron hands.(have plenty of non space marines. Sisters, alpha legion, tyranids, necrons, custodes, daemons) It really feels like they may just kill raven guard, white scars, salamanders, iron hands, imperial fists and the rest. Ultramarines have a primarch and it mostly just makes space marines consist of ultramarines, blood angels, dark angels, black Templar’s and space wolves. Many of you are now ultramarines, welcome :(
@@kahldris1228 And if it ends up being the meta detachment, you will have every space marine army using it, making white scars generic and no different from any other SM army.
Pain, when I saw Guillimans abilities changed from “friendly ultramarines” to “friendly Adeptus Astartes” I got exited about using him in my black Templars army with Helbrecht and Grimaldus 😂 that would’ve be been.
Well rip Raven Guard i guess , tho this means just build any list you like just dont expect your statagems to get buffed or to matter much. Will we at least know how much our chapter character will be worth points wise if he isnt blue, green, or red? Seems like more armies slip past their care to actually update . Thats cold gw
It seems Gullimans adopt the "Gabriel Angelos Protocol" acroos the space marines, so now every chapter can do anything and have specialists in every field.
Kind of excited by the prospect of a death watch standalone codex... A little voice in my Head tells me to think of how cool it would be if they added some Inquisition units directly to the deathwatch index/codex.... But surely we won't be so lucky 😅
Never underestimate GWs ability to completely ignore Deathwatch's mere existence Spinning them back off into their own faction almost certainly just means neglect, not special attention
I just want to point out that several armies just no longer exist in this game. Marine chapters and Chaos Legions without characters or unique models are back to simply being a paint scheme. They don't get their own rules. They get nothing. They're generic Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.
Maybe release unique Primaris Chapter Champions and make that Model Codex SM only so divergent chapters don’t get one. Give them an inbuilt rule each of each chapter’s favorite Smash Captain Warlord Trait
I think the Problem with that is, how to avoid beeing repetitiv and have them all in Balance. Special the balance is always a problem, so use your Known boys for all successor chapters seems to be the better way.
About? At least you are divergent and get DW specific rules. Codex might be a ways off but that's the nature of 40k. I play Sisters and Daemons. I've relegated myself to the realization that my 2 current armies codexes are a year off. Though I am starting Tyranids so at least that one is only about 2 months after 10th releases
This has never happened in any competitive game ever. There is always the top 10% of units, then 10% that is flex picked depending what u choose. Then 10% that is just below top tier but good enough that some use it because ppl aren't use to seeing it they like 70% inferior units.
I won't miss the 9e system, there were serious internal balance issues with my factions, not getting to play them exactly the way I wanted based on paint or meta optimization.
Overall I'm fine with the change. However, especially in CSM, it can still lead to the "paint scheme unlocks power" since currently Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors have no exclusive characters, which makes them "strictly worse" than Black Legion, Emperor's Children, Creations of Bile and Red Corsairs (even if those characters aren't that good, it's still an extra option over the others).
Two things I really liked about all the Chapters bring represented in a single codex was that 1. Every Chapter got access to every unit, with a minor list of exceptions, and 2. That these units were the same points and therefore get updated all at once if required. It did fall down though when certain armies had quite obviously better value units than others, such as Deathwing. Hopefully we don't lose access to certain units again, that'd be annoying!
What's even the point of the sub factions then if the flavour that comes from sub faction specific rules is just gone now. You have to pick from a curated list of leaders to have a sub faction with rules that are just the same as everything else.
I run an Iron Hands army and have done so for several editions now. With the new Chapter Tactics I can't see them being of any use to me. I'm not interested in advancing and shooting I'm interested in shooting and shooting
They haven't fixed the paint issue. Do you think the run of the mill detachments are gonna be anywhere near as good as the ones for GWs little favorite children?
I think thinking space wolves are never in a heavily armored detachment because they need it for a battle is a lil silly bud. Oh I dont just ABC? Must be ULtRaMaRInes
@Mason Lee the problem is that they're making everyone but the original chapters ultras. They're already making the sallies heretics in the newest white dwarf issue. They'll probably purge them at the end of 10th
If you talking about actually unique factions like Dark Angels or Death Guard they are unique enough to be their own main faction. But if talking about stuff like Ravenguard they were never unique in the first place, they are just straight numeric buffs with no actual mechanics or units.
Unique subfaction rules to literally every chapter/craftworld/band/younameit results in even more rules being blatantly better then others, makes them less meaningful and increases the bloat. And custom chapter is the whole other deal.
They totally could have. Just trim all supplements to be like the WE codex and it would have been perfect. They dialed from 11 to 3 instead of to 6 or 7.
Yep! The codex will show what units you can take (intercessors, for example) and you won't be able to take anything not in the Space Wolf codex (Apothecaries, for example).
I might be misunderstanding but I thought with 10th despite haing to choose a subfaction, the paint scheme can still be whatever you want. Like if I want a white scars fast attack vehicle spam army but Ultramarines are just way better at it because they have more support then I just say this is my Ultramarine army... that has a white and red paint scheme and lightning bolt iconography.
You have NEVER been locked to an army based on paint color. Though having obvious WS iconography might be a no go in official tournaments because even if you tell your opponent they are Ultramarines it would be easy to forget and think they were WS and play accordingly. Generally speaking color scheme doesn't matter but iconography does. If you were to remove/paint over the lightning bolts you would be able to call them whatever Chapter you want and no one can say "no, they aren't". The Tabletop Titans crew have a purple and white Iron Hands army. My Valorous Heart Sisters are Blue Silver armor with purple cloth. Because I don't have Order specific markings and they aren't painted in one particular Order's colors I can run them as any order I want.
You still can (Codex Divergent chapters excepted). You just can't put a White Scars named character in the same detachment as an Ultramarines named character.
I think the move towards detachments over subfactions is going to be really cool for Crusade games. In 9th, if you started, say, as Salamanders, you were playing the same Salamanders rules for the rest of the campaign, and if you wanted to play Ultramines rules, you'd have to work to expand your roster and add entirely disjoint Ultramarines models, and never field them together. Now, though, I imagine you'll be able to field a Gladius Strike Force once game, then turn around and field your army as First Company Veterans in another. And while some detachments might be more restrictive in the units you can field, there should at least be enough overlap that you can still pivot just by adding a few units to your roster. And that feels flavourful in its own way - being able to deploy your army in different ways to meet the needs of the mission ahead also feels thematic. If you play White Scars, maybe you play the "All Bikes All The Time" detachment 90% of the time, but for some games you play a Gladius that still heavily features Outriders and Storm Speeders. It's a Gladius, but a White Scars Gladius.
It is a big issue because it feels like a rather arberety line drawing again. "Your paint/chapter does not matter - Unless you want this character then it does". Frankly if they are going to go down this route of saying the chapters are all the same then fine let us use all the characters in a single army otherwise if your going to force a split then you need rules to support that.
So in theory you could run Roubute Guillermo with Salamanders as long as you dont include Adrax Agatone? Even though they are painted green it doesn't say salamanders on the datacards....
Being new to the hobby and still building my first army I put a lot of effort (gladly) into learning lore and flavor before choosing my faction. I get the game needs balance but this particular change kills a big part of the overall enjoyment experience. Guess that's my fault choosing a codex compliant faction. Even worse, my second choice is also in that category so I don't really want to someday build a second army that's going to play almost identical to my first.
Me too. I'm new but I'm nearly to 1000 points of painted Iron Hands, and 500 points of Salamanders. I like both for lore reasons and have had a hard time deciding. Now it's pointless.
@@jasonmiller7133 This is exactly my dilemma. Building Iron Hands because I always loved Dreadnought models. Love the lore of Salamanders (I build guns and love they're all their own artificers) and planned to do that next. Now I guess I'll just paint up a few here and there for variety sake.
I really, REALLY, dont get why people oppose to different paints having different rules.... its their identity, connected to the lore (fluff should you so wish). If the lore is not important to you, you dont have to use any paint, or even models. You are allowed to play with rocks if you wish. Either you give lore some importance or you dont. Dont claim to like lore and then complain when it effects your army. Its intended.
When subfaction codices inevitably come out, I hope GW just put all the available datasheets in that codex and not require the base codex as well, I play Imperial Fists so I just want an Imperial Fist codex and not the Space Marine codex AND Imperial Fist subfaction codex.
my biggest worry is with how we are getting custom chapters. before it was "just come up with a rule or two and a stratagem then go wild" Now Im worried we might just be forced into being differently colored imperial fists or dark angles without and of the unique customizable flavor you got before.
There's no chapter exclusive detachments. There's just some that are lore friendly. For example, it's lore friendly for Iron Hands to take the armored detachment. But any chapter can take the armored detachment without pretending to be Iron Hands, it's just their chapter's Armored company being used. As a custom chapter you're actually in a really good position to make use of any detachment and not be pretending to be someone else. 1st company detachment are your chapters veterans, Recon detachment is your chapters scouts and Phobos units, etc.
We first saw it in the 9th edition CSM codex. "Well, we were gonna make custom warband rules. But we didn't, so you need to just pick one of these legions and use those rules". And that's how this will be. You're a successor of somebody, just use their codex.
@@RSBurgener I mean, except in that not all of the detatchments will even be fluffed after past subfactions, they keep reminding us about the first company one coming.
Still no info on how chapter specific units work and Bobby G has the epic hero keyword which mean you should be able to take him even if you are not running Ultramarines just like you can now. It would be pretty crap if you are literally forced into playing UM or DA if you want to run a primarch. I totally think they should get more bonuses if they are in a UM or DA special detachment but should still be legal options for any chapter..
They called me crazy, they ALL called me crazy, i warned you, all of you! This is the age where they remove sugar from our cereal, and feed us bland oats that taste grey and dull!
I feel that this is a solution to a non-existant problem. Everyone was already playing whatever faction they wanted, regardless of colorscheme, even in high level tournaments. I saw Iron Hands with the logo of the Khan and Ultramarines with blooddrops etc. Instead now it's less fluff with more streamlining, which I think is a shame. Sure there'll be specific 'salamander style' detachments that focus on flamers or a 'mobile detachement' that seems like White Scars, but it won't have the unique and fun relics or stratagems that make it feel a little bit special and unique imo. A shame.
I haven't figured out if the epic characters are going to be linked to specific detachments or not? I feel like it might make sense that guilliman would be limited to gladius strike force, adrax agatone might be limited to "incineration expedition" and kayvan shrike might be limited to " infiltration vanguard" (or whatever the appropriate detachments are called). It might also limit there from just being an optimum combination of characters and detachment, to a small extent.
For Forgeworld models do we have to wait for Imperial Armour or will there be a drop of datacards straight away? I've a Minotaurs army and now have there 3 Forgeworld models, they haven't had their own proper edition specific faction rules since 7th, and have sort of been on life support in Legends.
They've basically confirmed they do not. Definitely not at launch or in the space marine codex. We have to just hope GW realizes how shitty this is and release subfaction supplements.
Oh no one army might have better characters than another so they won't be balanced. We could just balance the damn game, but no that's crazy. By 11th there with be exactly 2 factions in the whole game: light blue Ultramarines and dark blue Ultramarines. Perfect balance at the expense of everything else.
Welp it was fun having the mobility options when I did as RG alongside the cool ass relics and chapter spells. I'm certain w.e generic marine detachment they'll slide our way will be great when literally every other chapter can do it too and maybe depending on available characters be better. I'm certain these changes are going to put the boys in blue ahead of everyone thats codex compliant.
Do you not think that’s a bit of a weird take though? The Raven Guard still have tanks, the White Scars don’t ride bikes down the hallways of space hulks, Imperial Fists have an assault company and a traditional of fighting with swords etc. Like it or not they are Codex chapters that have the full array of wargear available to them, they can all fight in any way that is needed. My favourite example is from the 3rd Armageddon War, the Blood Angels armoured support for 3rd Company falling to the Black Rage as Tycho fought the Ork Warboss in the breach, great narrative but also shows the Blood Angels were able to deploy an entire Armoured Formation. They aren’t Iron Hands so would this be weird for someone to run in game? Also shout out to the Storm Giants, had the Blood Angels backs when it mattered!
@@jono_cc2258 I agree - a lot of people tend to forget that 90% of marine chapters are basically identical to each each other in makeup, and even the divergent ones don't JUST have their specialised units in them. There were just as many Devastator squads in the White Scars as in the Iron Hands, it's just that their tabletop rules meant you saw them a lot less. I don't know how much effect the 10th edition rules will have on competative gameplay, but it makes sense fluff wise the way they're doing it.
@@jono_cc2258 No it isn't ....having everything aside from unique characters gutted from your faction, to be replaced with nothing but generalist all rounder tactics and relics sounds like something made for ultras. Never once did I say that codex chapters don't use things that all the others do. It's the things that made them standout that mattered and that is effectively gone reducing them to just fancy looking ultras.
Hmmm, speaking of divergent chapters, since the DA are getting stuff redone and non-chaos fallen are joining the Primarch, will they be a separate entry in the codex, or will they be fully absorbed back (at least in terms of rules and profiles) in the mail DA "fold"?
So is it like custom chapters now? There will be a selection to choose from and you pick one or two? Also will there be space marine specific strategems? If so i guess you can make your army play like one of the space marine factions. Only problem is in competitive matches everyone will use what's best in every slot giving mostly mirror match ups
As a DA army builder I'm happy I'm not going to be forced to do nothing but Deathwing termies - can do some consecrators etc for rule of cool and they should still pack thew same punch right? Good times
I think they've just backed themselves into a corner when it comes to dealing with Space Marines. The divergent chapters get the special rules and units while the others just get lumped together. GW wanted to have their cake and eat it too, wanting you to buy new codexes and new HQ's, but not really giving the compliant chapters anything truly unique about them. It makes me somewhat sad as a Salamander player that my best boys in green are probably going to be boiled down to a single detachment involving a +1 to wound to meltas and flamers or something boring like that.
I play a Celestial Lions army using BT rules at the moment and for someone like me this update is really useful due to the fact that I can change that play style is needed fairly easily
This kinda reminds me of 6th edition, where my chaos marines had only the CSM faction, and there were several named characters that weren't really limited beyond the number of HQ slots in the detachment. But the characters had abilities like "if this character is in your detachment, units of chosen are troops instead of elites." So like, it's more limited than that now, but the idea that you would sort of make your own "legion" by including characters so you could run a bunch of one unit instead of only the 3 elites you're allowed to take, is pretty close to how this is explained. Just now, the characters are being limited instead of the other units.
can't wait for my freshly painted Alpha legion army to lose all of the unique weird stuff they have that gives them a different style in favor of becoming generic Chaos space marines again
As a Raven Guard player, not only did GW nerf our rules into oblivion, not only did they give us no new characters or support, but we held the lowest SW win rate for most of 9th. But at least we still had our fluffy mechanics. Nay, they've finally taken that too. Now we're just emo Ultramarines. Epic sadge.
I was a bit opposed to consolidating all the Marines together, but after thinking about it, this is just doing the same as the Chaos codex- the ones with really special rules get their own thing, and the rest are just slightly different flavors of the same.
Although I'm biased, I do think it's a good decision to limit the comical amount if marine codexes, but I'm also happy that black templars get their own codex. It would be strange with the 5 primaris kits they got in 9th to end up being generic after all that
All the supplements were super interesting, great idea from GW.
I went into collecting marines as my 3rd army because I wanted a heavy weapons army and a few years later the iron hands supplement popped. 9th customization has been so fun and I hope the detachments we'll get after index hammer are a little more flavorful and less "cinematic". I played a 6 heavy weapons list today and it was glorious fun (lost the game, barely).
Amazing
Might still be possible in a 2v2, methinks.
Fingers crossed, hopefully they'll allow Eldar characters to lead Anrathe units. Space Elf Pirates for the win!
I mean technically Prince Yriel, which is already a playable character for Iyanden, is the arguably greatest Eldar pirate Captain to ever live (eldritch raiders) . So if anything unless we get more characters, he should be good to lead corsairs
Yeah I'm hoping Yriel gets a resculpt and the anrathe get their own rules for themselves and more models. But atleast, datasheets to make them stand out more like the tyranid genestealer divide, like maybe their own take on wind riders and raiders that they can take with their own rules. Wed just need a generic captain and you can make Yriel an option for them and itd be sick
@@Some_Cool_Dude I personally prefer Duke Traevelliath Sliscus, the leader of the Sky Serpents. One of the rare individuals, that actually can cut through the plot armor of Space Marine protagonists and so won a duell against one in their own book and took one of the hearths as a souvenir. I agree it would be great to see some love for some corsair characters.
My local space wolf player is so happy he gets a unique suppliment. As an iron hands player I can’t help but be happy for him, but it but feel sad I will lose mine.
Why aren't we a divergent chapter? We're pretty Damm different from other space marines! Lol
As a White Scars player, I feel the same. I've just watched GW give away to everyone else all the things that were unique to my army. But the Favoured are all going to get their own special stuff. Doesn't seem fair
@@craigbattson8436 bro im with you. i might have to sell my army at this rate. i spent years mastering a weak army to the point of being able to win 80 percent of my games no matter the meta. that pride is just being stripped away and now it seems we're just... a space marine chapter. honestly even worse than being mostly ignored. at least we had some cool rules that made us stand out and be fun to play.
@@kahldris1228 That's what I thought, a whole Chapter of Adam Smasher Marines is pretty different from the regular "Fleshy Joes"
@@aunderiskerensky2304 lol being able to win 80% of your games with a bottom meta army just means you were stomping casual players, not beating the people that win tournaments
Pretty ballsy of GW to say "no, it's weird to have epic heroes of different chapters fighting in the same army" when they just released a book in which the Blood Angels show up with both Dante and the Lion leading them.
They were unbound. So no Command Points for them.
Not to mention just releasing an Imperial Guard Codex where mixing characters into other Regiments was not just possible, but a selling point.
This is entirely for matched play balance. You know you can play with whatever rules you would like for your own games, right?
My blood angels are happy, but my iron hands are getting the trigger fingers ready
Narrative battles dont count
I’m new to the hobby and picked ultras for their well-roundedness and flexibility. I know other players don’t want to just play green/white/yellow ultramarines, and I don’t really want them to either. Some of us picked our factions for reasons beyond the paint scheme. I was immediately drawn to the fall back and re-engage tactics, and thought it accurately depicted their lore as masters of strategy and adaptability, while not specializing in one particular thing. Now everyone gets access to this ability while simultaneously losing the rules that made them special. Just feels bad all around. I liked the different flavors that salamanders, iron hands, white scars etc brought with their army rules. I know I shouldn’t be complaining as an ultramarine player, we are as vanilla as it gets, but at least we still brought some unique tricks to the table in 9th.
You got every right to complain, buddy. It sucks to lose that uniqueness. However, you could also view the whole Codex as Codex Astartes? Laying out how to build different detachments from your Jack of All Trades Ultramarines! You really can do it all with all these detachments!
Same. Raven Guard just doesn't exist anymore. Theyr just black space Marines.
@@RBTGames Exactly, another big L for RG players unfortunately :/
New UM player as well. I feel the exact same way. Only saving grace we have is our selection of Characters.
Proves all of my consternations regarding 10th right. It will be years before my faction gets touched again and when it does prepare for 11th Edition. This hobby goes out of its way to become forgotten.
Must be nice to have named characters for more than one legion.
xoxo CSM
well us Red Corsairs do have a named character and not only does he look like shit in his finecast glory but is also mediocre. oh and also we have the lowest play rate and win rate of the codex. oh and also the absolute worst relic/WLT/stratagem list of the codex. oh and also bikers are our core and their models come straight from the 90s.
victory for the Tyrant of Badab either way, brother in treachery.
@@yaboifoxbeing a Chaos player has been pain for years 😂 we had a few months of being on top when our 9th codex came out but now it’s back to pain again 😂😂
@@nicobrady1596 And now the pain of being within the initial codex wave, so likely CSM players will get saddled with a more 'restrained' codex instead of getting to play the power creep game...
Add to this CSM's got a healthy sized model release in 9th, despite most of it being a bunch of mortal trash - including the insulting fething JOKE of a Cultist kit. (...we seriously waited 10 YEARS for that pile of mono posed BS?!)
Odds are CSM's will get just the token 1 model with their codex, and it probably will not be an actual, viable Chaos Lord kit.
Yes, yes I know, "whiny CSM players are never happy, blah, blah, blah..."
I'll just laugh when the 10th ed codex restricts every single Chaos Lord in the game to exactly a 'plasma pistol + thunder hammer' only, because "no model no rule - hurr-dur!"
I mean, they've already done just that with our so-called Exalted Champion option. (combi-melta & power axe only - how dare you ask for options!)
Thank god I jumped ship and moved onto Deathguard & World Eaters as my spiky boyz armies
@@yaboifox They added new loyalist bikes but not chaos?
I intend to use the goliath bikers from necromunda as my chaos bikers unless they do some amazing bikes for each chaos warband
I can't help but wonder if the reason why GW doesn't show support to the "codex compliant" chapters has to have something to do with popularity. And if that's the case I question whether the reason why chapters like Imperial Fists or Salamanders are less popular purely because people like them less, OR they're less popular because GW constantly shafts them, thus making them inferior choices which in turn leads to them being fielded less, then GW looks at the numbers and sees them not being played and says "Huh, guess they're not popular"
As of right now I don't really see much of a reason to field my marines if the chapter's aren't getting specific stratagems. I field my marines as Salamander Successors currently, but if they take away the strategies that make them unique then I have no reason to play them. It sounds like the codex chapters are basically going to be Blue Marines or Green Marines instead of Ultramarines or Salamanders, and I'm not fielding Blood Angels for an entire edition just to feel unique
this. its exactly whts happening with "less" played armies generally as well. "40% of the player base is playing sm..."
Ill be interested in seeing what happens to the grey Knights in regards to the new faction rules
if thats the case, Im interested to see when the space wolf codex will be released then. index cards will be great. but being my first actual turn of the new edition im excited either way.
I suspect it could work like Age of Sigmar subfactions. Named characters with a specific Subfaction listed can still go into any other Subfaction, but only gain those rules if you're running their listed Subfaction.
So Guilliman can run in Imperial Fists, but will only benefit from the Subfaction if it's Ultramarines.
I think this is what will happen...
There's no subfactions besides named characters. An Imperial Fist army led by Guilleman plays the same as an Ultramarines army led by Guilleman (assuming they picked the same detachment). Guilleman just excludes named characters from other chapters from being used.
It seems asinine to have some chapters be entire factions in themselves instead of just making them different in a few key ways. Give Ultramarines extra command points, give Ravenguard the ability to deep strike better than other factions, make Imperial Fists super good with bolters, etc. Little tweaks to make them different so you can make the characters slightly different to compensate. It’s so easy. It’s okay to have few differences if those differences are important.
I hope the other chapters besides Ultramarines get new characters. I can dream.
This is kinda difficult for Space Marines but I'm really happy in regards to things like Orks and Eldar, where the subfactions mostly come down to being good at using an archetype of unit. Means you don't have to go for a new paint scheme if you want to expand into a new type of unit and still play optimally.
Kinda feel especially bad for Iron Hands because they feel like they'll need less applicable to other chapters rules, but I guess they had their win with 9th.
And don't forget, I feel pretty confident that we are getting 2 NEW factions in 10th. Emperor's Children and Dark Mechanicum are almost certainly coming.
@Space Lizard
Model-wise, this is probably true as a release for the Astra Militarum. However, the OC was talking about factions, not models.
I picked Raven Guard becuase of their cool lore and unique tactics. I just started learning 9th when 10th was announced. I havent even played my first game yet and this bums me out.
I feel you (Salamanders player). But!! You may want to start your own Raven Guard Successor Chapter? Keep all the cool stuff but you can make your own too and use any detachment you want without feeling like you're not Raven Guard enough?
They will release specific stealthy detachment for Raven Guard playstyle and you still have a few unique character that distinct you as Raven Guard. It better that way, 9th subfaction gameplay was very swingy, with one subfaction clearly better then others and Raven Guard was on weak side, no longer the case now
The problem is many chapters don't have many unique units like ultra, blood, dark and wolves do so I think it requires the codex
I don't know how to feel about my Salamanders chapter, just not sure what the future will be with it.
Well it's effectively a giant middle finger to all those people who stacked melta and flamers.
I strongly suspect we'll get a detachment, but seems that if this is the case, we'll have to wait for the codex. Maybe they'll tease it in the run up to that release. Not the longest wait but would still be nice to confirm this rather than leave us hanging.
Vulkan Lives Brother!
Thats what we get for not choosing the best and most famous chapters i guess...we had no models and now we dont have rules either...
@@vittoriofinizzi824 We had no models? And there will be rules for the chapters. Think of the beginning of 8th. All is at low level, but than the power selling of GW gives us Power Rules for Faction, so dont worry, they will never change that.
I swear, the armies i have going are all raising thr biggest questions/alarms with the more info we get about 10th.
First i was questioning what was happening to my Sisters of Battle, with combi weapons. Then my Aeldari army takes a massive hit to the psychic changes. Now im wondering whats going to happen with drukhari covens, cults, and Kabals.
Same. I'm definitely skipping this edition. I'll stick with 9 until 11 comes out.
Seems like there isn't really any incentive to run as a codex chapter other than Ultramarines, especially with the preview of Guilliman's rules and the additional characters and units they have, compared to the others.
Good point
rip everyone who plays chapters without unique character models
As a Crimson Fists guy since Rogue Trader, at least they've been giving us Pedro Kantor in the past few editions, plus some extra rules of late. It's the 'make your own Chapter' guys that get totally shafted though.
@@matthewberry3055 Fair point, as an Imperial Fists player, at least I have a couple of characters with Tor and Lysander. The custom chapter folks get the short end of the stick for sure.
@@UEFwarhawk Fo sure man. It doesnt really bug me that much (we earn our victories the hard way in true Fists fashion) but I do feel for the peeps that go to great efforts to paint up 'your guys' and get shafted every edition.
In 5th edition and IRRC 6th edition, special characters didn't have any subfaction restrictions so you could totally have Kayvann Shrike and Marneus Calgar in the same army list. Was that a smart thing to do? No lol but you could do it.
What does IRRC mean?
But Ultramarines wasn't a thing. It was just SMs.
My buddy had Grey Space Marines and he would swap out named Characters willy nilly.
I'm glad I won't have to face off against BA led by BobbyG. If GW allowed divergent Chapters to mix and match HQs I would for sure quit 40k until 11th
@PallyK where irrc was a typo of iirc, in case that wasn't obvious
If that was a matched play game that'd get some raised eyebrows lol
@@KingBobbito ohhh okay that makes sense thank you
I admire your optimistic undertones as you outlay a very deliberate informative video. If it is loyalty to GW or just the game itself, hats off to you sir. I however cant help but feel empty after hearing the 10thEd news. 18months of getting into 40k with my son and how he lit up with excitement when he grew his Iron warriors to decimate my White Scars. Now to find out the essence of tactics, doctrines, Strategem's that made our armies unique are now gone! Yes we can stay in 9th and see out our days but my son had dreams of tournament entries to build his self esteem and confidence. Alas our local stores have informed us they will have to stay by the GW rules and move to 10th once its out in full. Thankyou for delivering great content, we have enjoyed and learned so much from you. Stay safe and be true to yourself.
Faction rules are not going away, as we saw they will still be making Codexes for Space Marines sub factions. We still do not know what they are planning. Personally the changes to Doctrines are amazing for Marines.
Exactly! I really don't understand the over enthusiasm about dumbing the game down to the point where nothing will feel unique. This isn't some attempt to make 40K a smoother game to play with "less books" to go go through for rules etc. They just implemented Age of Sigmar as their rules approach. There will still be the traditional GW gaffs to rules for certain armies and units, but this time you won't have 20 options to choose from to deal with it.. You'll have two! Lol. All it will take is the first month to go by before you will start hearing the massive problems with armies in this game.. And wouldnt ya know, you'll have to wait two years again for your army to get a new book to hope and pray those issues are remedied
10th isn't even out yet.. at least wait and see.
Gabriel Seth's fear came true. All marines are now just Smurfs in black, red, and yellow armors.
As a white scars player for the last 2 editions... I'm a bit worried my flavor of army and fact that they ARE painted as white scars and run em pretty fluffy won't make sense :(
Man can't they give the white scars some love... A character or two new and a speeder or some shit idc anything plz. Still waiting on my 9th codex and now 10th comen out and I don't see white armor anywhere :'(
Hold fast brother, there are dozens of us worldwide!
Jokes aside, I really wish they'd give those chapters more love. They are underloved because they get no attention I feel.
Am I understanding this correctly?:
Only characters/unique subfaction units will be restricted by the subfacton rule, so you could have an army of white scar painted units led by Guilliman & other Ultramarine characters as well as ultramarine honor guards?
And unless it's stated otherwise when the codex comes out, I presume this would allow you to basically run ultramarine-specific detachment rules with this army, since the paint on your normal units are pretty much for aesthetics only?
On your first point: yes, you could have a white scars painted force lead by ultramarines painted Roboute, Marneus, Tigerius etc. So long as you have no white scars characters like Ko'Sarro. You might get some funny looks, but that would be perfectly legal.
On your second point, the detachments won't be locked to subfactions, per se. The codex will have a bunch of detachments which represent different ways of fighting, but none of them will be sub faction exclusive. For kind of an idea of this look at the current guard codex's army special rules; you have named special rules with fluff text saying what sort of army might be represented by the rule, like cult of sacrifice being associated with krieg, but you can run any guard units with that rule, cadians with cult of sacrifice is legal.
In your example, there might be a codex space marines detachment which has a heavy emphasis on bikes. Its flavour text would say that the white scars favour this type of warfare, but you would likely be able to run Roboute Guilliman in the detachment.
Also it should be said that there will not be subfaction rules, as we know them now, inside a codex. White scars and ultramarines will not have different rules and can take the same detachments.
It seems so.
Gabriel Seth's concern came true... All marines are now just smurfs wearing black/red/yellow/etc armor.
Kinda wish we could mix chapters. Fingers crossed a flavorful last wall detachment, Hellbrect fighting alongside Kantor
Last wall or spearhead.
Wish we could mix blood angels and dark angels in matched play. They even did this in the latest warhammer plus battle report. I know soup leads to imbalance but it makes the hobby side far less repetitive.
I wish they would of kept the supplement version for divergent chapters. It made rule updates so much cleaner and kept weirdness out when they added more general units.
I'm also not huge if they put Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights back in the same book after putting so much effort into differentiating them this edition.
makes some sense, to be honest I'm glad the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templars are all back to being unique again. It'll be interesting to see what they can and can't take going forwards, especially since historically Sternguard aren't something Dark Angels or Space Wolves can take and now they're in the launch box? I hope their ability to take bladeguard means they can, since I'd really like to paint those guys up in caliban green as primaris company veterans.
They've already stated in a Q&A that Space Wolves don't have Apothecaries but there's one of those in the launch box. It's possible Sternguard also won't go with some chapters. Guess we'll see
I just hope world eaters get a chaos lord for a HQ again >.>
Me too, especially since I bought a terminator lord especially!
I hope the world eaters will get a second wave in 10th with Berzerker surgeon, Termi lord, Red butchers and a daemon engine
@@ragnarokivae6136 They'd BETTER! The last one was pitiful!
World Eaters can get a Chaos Lord _after_ my Craftworlds get the complete plastic Phoenix Lords & Aspect Warrior range to replace the derp that was designed in the 90s and otts. 😝
Your nephew would love it !
Seems odd to me that the original legions in the Iron Hands, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Salamanders and Raven Guard are just basically getting lumped in as general Space Marines (i.e ultramarines), whilst a successor chapter in the Black Templars gets to be their own unique faction. There should at least be a codex for all major space marine factions IMO to reflect their deep lore, differences etc. Space Marines are the most popular faction in 40k, pushing everyone who takes them to a handful of 'unique chapters' I think is not the right way to go, this will just lead to those other chapters like the White Scars being even less popular, and thus they will get even less minis/attention, which then in turn makes them less popular, rinse repeat I reckon. I personally think all the original space marine legions, plus the distinct traitor ones should be their own factions, plus then Black Templars and Death Guard. Also saying this as a BA fan.
Thank you man, fully agree. I've got nearly 10.000 points of White Scars painted and it's always fun to play with them and I love their lore, so seeing them just become "marines" is heartwrenching. They were one of the few legions to fight during the Siege on Terra. They are one of the original chapters. It's so silly it's become a popularity contest now.
@@RaengStinger Wow 10k points nice man, congrats on that alone. But yeh it's silly, part of the reason the other chapters are less popular is because GW doesn't give them much attention, particularly unique minis, so of course when people come to chose chapters and they see these cool minis for Dark Angels or Space Wolves or Black Templars etc. they are going to chose those factions. But when you look at the lore, how they fight etc. the likes of White Scars or Iron Hands etc. are really cool and deserve some more love. I'm just a lucky BA fan, I just chose them because well I like red (football related) and the really cool box art on the 2nd edition box way back when I started. But now I can go to GW site, and I can buy BA specific characters like Mephiston, Dante, etc. giving those chapters more attention, more minis, making them specific factions would get them more popular. For your sake alone I hope the Khan return rumours end up being true and you at least end up with a cool primarch model in 10th.
@@tajj7 A good friend of mine plays BA too, and he found out after year or so that he was in a pretty unique situation. He asked me why I never brought any "specific White Scar marine models" and he was shocked to learn there weren't any except for one HQ (Khan on bike was already discontinued).
Hope we'll get some new love in the future.
That said, Blood Angels are super cool too, you should be happy!! Fantastic Legion.
Couldn't have said it better!
@@RaengStinger Yeh just looked, basically one dude. Don't know if you know but there is a very nice White Scars bike guy in Kill Team Cassius (Jetek Suberei, White Scars Biker Sergeant), but very expensive purchase for one model!
Of my favorite armies, AdMech and Grey Knights don't seem to get affected by this, but I'm really not happy that White Scars are bassically just White Ultramarines now -- especially when it feels like they're contradicting their own intent. If the point is to level chapters to the same power level, why are so many divergent chapters getting their own rules. It really kinda just stings all around.
I wanted to start a marines army in 9th but I had no clue what chapter I wanted to paint them as. The decision paralysis was pretty wild. Eventually I settled on painting them as Deathwatch not because I wanted to play them necessarily (though I still do), but I figured thematically and lore wise it would make sense for captains of different chapters to run their armies differently. That way I could play Fists one game, then Ultramarines or White Scars the next.
Always flesh tearers! Rip and tear brother
All the more reason to make my own edition of 40k... As if the psychic powers debacle and the loadout decimations (Oh, how i HATED the "accursed weapons" bs instead of just having lightning claws, power mauls, etc. on my Chaos terminators)...
With Blackjack and hookers!
For space marines I’ve been rocking ultramarines, blood angels and salamanders.. was about to pull the trigger on iron hands.(have plenty of non space marines. Sisters, alpha legion, tyranids, necrons, custodes, daemons)
It really feels like they may just kill raven guard, white scars, salamanders, iron hands, imperial fists and the rest. Ultramarines have a primarch and it mostly just makes space marines consist of ultramarines, blood angels, dark angels, black Templar’s and space wolves. Many of you are now ultramarines, welcome :(
Like Gabriel Seth said "They will be Ultra Marines in our colors"
Not sure if Seth arguments hold if BA get their own codex, tho.
I do prefer the 9th system where every faction got rules.
Edit: I hope tyranids and GSC can be fielded to get her under the tyranid flag
You’ve used Raven Guard as an example a lot in this video, have they been on your mind more than usual lately?
My whites scars are now Mongolian ultramarines… feels bad 😢
Fantastic (sarcasm) - yet another reason for us White Scars not to bother having bikes or speeders. But at least we have one character - on foot.
There'll probably be a detachment that would benefit a white scar army.
@@kahldris1228 And if it ends up being the meta detachment, you will have every space marine army using it, making white scars generic and no different from any other SM army.
Pain, when I saw Guillimans abilities changed from “friendly ultramarines” to “friendly Adeptus Astartes” I got exited about using him in my black Templars army with Helbrecht and Grimaldus 😂 that would’ve be been.
Well we re not even sure of ho fielding bt epic carac will function. So let s wait. Possibly helbrecht may become really strong
Well rip Raven Guard i guess , tho this means just build any list you like just dont expect your statagems to get buffed or to matter much. Will we at least know how much our chapter character will be worth points wise if he isnt blue, green, or red? Seems like more armies slip past their care to actually update . Thats cold gw
It seems Gullimans adopt the "Gabriel Angelos Protocol" acroos the space marines, so now every chapter can do anything and have specialists in every field.
Though if you picked one character with 2nd faction keyword, you can't take another character with different 2nd keyword.
Kind of excited by the prospect of a death watch standalone codex... A little voice in my Head tells me to think of how cool it would be if they added some Inquisition units directly to the deathwatch index/codex.... But surely we won't be so lucky 😅
Never underestimate GWs ability to completely ignore Deathwatch's mere existence
Spinning them back off into their own faction almost certainly just means neglect, not special attention
@@studiotwilldee yeah I'm hoping the index is solid cause it feels like it'll be a good wait for the codex, and even then who knows.
I just want to point out that several armies just no longer exist in this game. Marine chapters and Chaos Legions without characters or unique models are back to simply being a paint scheme. They don't get their own rules. They get nothing. They're generic Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.
Add more characters to the other chapters =)
Maybe release unique Primaris Chapter Champions and make that Model Codex SM only so divergent chapters don’t get one. Give them an inbuilt rule each of each chapter’s favorite Smash Captain Warlord Trait
I think the Problem with that is, how to avoid beeing repetitiv and have them all in Balance. Special the balance is always a problem, so use your Known boys for all successor chapters seems to be the better way.
As Deathwatch player I’m really concerned and worried
Same. I've been having a bit of grief over it.
We were warning about this years ago and nobody listened :)
It's called the long vigil for a reason, for the glory of the imperium brother.
About? At least you are divergent and get DW specific rules. Codex might be a ways off but that's the nature of 40k.
I play Sisters and Daemons. I've relegated myself to the realization that my 2 current armies codexes are a year off.
Though I am starting Tyranids so at least that one is only about 2 months after 10th releases
Can't wait to use some Sautekh characters in an army and feel bas that I am missing out on rules
Unless they get plastic models I would bet my house that all Sautekh characters currently in resin are going to be moved to legends.
@@John-po9vg crap which ones are resin
I think that with points being their main balancing mechanism it should be possible to keep there from being one right answer for marines by & large.
This has never happened in any competitive game ever. There is always the top 10% of units, then 10% that is flex picked depending what u choose. Then 10% that is just below top tier but good enough that some use it because ppl aren't use to seeing it they like 70% inferior units.
I won't miss the 9e system, there were serious internal balance issues with my factions, not getting to play them exactly the way I wanted based on paint or meta optimization.
Overall I'm fine with the change. However, especially in CSM, it can still lead to the "paint scheme unlocks power" since currently Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors have no exclusive characters, which makes them "strictly worse" than Black Legion, Emperor's Children, Creations of Bile and Red Corsairs (even if those characters aren't that good, it's still an extra option over the others).
Two things I really liked about all the Chapters bring represented in a single codex was that 1. Every Chapter got access to every unit, with a minor list of exceptions, and 2. That these units were the same points and therefore get updated all at once if required. It did fall down though when certain armies had quite obviously better value units than others, such as Deathwing. Hopefully we don't lose access to certain units again, that'd be annoying!
BRO PLEASE DONT BURN YOURSELF OUT. We all love and appreciate your videos and you’re fast as but take care of yourself too my dude!!!??
As he sits at home and edits simple videos 😂
I collect for ultra marines, iron hands and iron warriors.
Kind of sad to see all 3 subfactions getting shafted.
Ah, I've been wondering about this, I was discussing subfaction rules earlier today.
All my sneaky beaky boy strats that were my favorite are going away to be generic marines 😢
What's even the point of the sub factions then if the flavour that comes from sub faction specific rules is just gone now. You have to pick from a curated list of leaders to have a sub faction with rules that are just the same as everything else.
I wonder if that list of index cards is the order in of future faction previews, after space marines and nids. If that's the case, guard will be next
Guess we'll find out this week.
next up is chaos space marines, it said that at the bottom of the nids preview
Yes it is. They will be showing all of them like everyday or every other day over the next month 👍
I run an Iron Hands army and have done so for several editions now. With the new Chapter Tactics I can't see them being of any use to me. I'm not interested in advancing and shooting I'm interested in shooting and shooting
They haven't fixed the paint issue. Do you think the run of the mill detachments are gonna be anywhere near as good as the ones for GWs little favorite children?
I think thinking space wolves are never in a heavily armored detachment because they need it for a battle is a lil silly bud. Oh I dont just ABC? Must be ULtRaMaRInes
well the ultras are in the generic detatchment pool so they will at least be decent.
@Mason Lee the problem is that they're making everyone but the original chapters ultras. They're already making the sallies heretics in the newest white dwarf issue. They'll probably purge them at the end of 10th
Too far gone
@@wonderfred I realize that, all I was saying is that as long as ultras are decent the others will be too during 10th at least.
Wouldn't it have been cooler if they just tried to balance the factions instead of scrapping what makes them unique?
If you talking about actually unique factions like Dark Angels or Death Guard they are unique enough to be their own main faction. But if talking about stuff like Ravenguard they were never unique in the first place, they are just straight numeric buffs with no actual mechanics or units.
Unique subfaction rules to literally every chapter/craftworld/band/younameit results in even more rules being blatantly better then others, makes them less meaningful and increases the bloat. And custom chapter is the whole other deal.
They totally could have. Just trim all supplements to be like the WE codex and it would have been perfect. They dialed from 11 to 3 instead of to 6 or 7.
So wait, as a Space Wolves player, we will have our own codex like "Space Marines" have their own.
Yep! The codex will show what units you can take (intercessors, for example) and you won't be able to take anything not in the Space Wolf codex (Apothecaries, for example).
Thanks for doing these man!
i'm planning to build an imperial agents army :D
so really hope they get their own army.
I might be misunderstanding but I thought with 10th despite haing to choose a subfaction, the paint scheme can still be whatever you want. Like if I want a white scars fast attack vehicle spam army but Ultramarines are just way better at it because they have more support then I just say this is my Ultramarine army... that has a white and red paint scheme and lightning bolt iconography.
Ya you can choose to play them however you want in 10th.
You have NEVER been locked to an army based on paint color. Though having obvious WS iconography might be a no go in official tournaments because even if you tell your opponent they are Ultramarines it would be easy to forget and think they were WS and play accordingly.
Generally speaking color scheme doesn't matter but iconography does.
If you were to remove/paint over the lightning bolts you would be able to call them whatever Chapter you want and no one can say "no, they aren't".
The Tabletop Titans crew have a purple and white Iron Hands army.
My Valorous Heart Sisters are Blue Silver armor with purple cloth. Because I don't have Order specific markings and they aren't painted in one particular Order's colors I can run them as any order I want.
You still can (Codex Divergent chapters excepted). You just can't put a White Scars named character in the same detachment as an Ultramarines named character.
What makes DA or SW different from Iron Hands or White Scars, that one get's to be different and the other dosnet?
I think the move towards detachments over subfactions is going to be really cool for Crusade games. In 9th, if you started, say, as Salamanders, you were playing the same Salamanders rules for the rest of the campaign, and if you wanted to play Ultramines rules, you'd have to work to expand your roster and add entirely disjoint Ultramarines models, and never field them together.
Now, though, I imagine you'll be able to field a Gladius Strike Force once game, then turn around and field your army as First Company Veterans in another. And while some detachments might be more restrictive in the units you can field, there should at least be enough overlap that you can still pivot just by adding a few units to your roster.
And that feels flavourful in its own way - being able to deploy your army in different ways to meet the needs of the mission ahead also feels thematic. If you play White Scars, maybe you play the "All Bikes All The Time" detachment 90% of the time, but for some games you play a Gladius that still heavily features Outriders and Storm Speeders. It's a Gladius, but a White Scars Gladius.
It is a big issue because it feels like a rather arberety line drawing again. "Your paint/chapter does not matter - Unless you want this character then it does". Frankly if they are going to go down this route of saying the chapters are all the same then fine let us use all the characters in a single army otherwise if your going to force a split then you need rules to support that.
So in theory you could run Roubute Guillermo with Salamanders as long as you dont include Adrax Agatone? Even though they are painted green it doesn't say salamanders on the datacards....
Being new to the hobby and still building my first army I put a lot of effort (gladly) into learning lore and flavor before choosing my faction. I get the game needs balance but this particular change kills a big part of the overall enjoyment experience. Guess that's my fault choosing a codex compliant faction. Even worse, my second choice is also in that category so I don't really want to someday build a second army that's going to play almost identical to my first.
Me too. I'm new but I'm nearly to 1000 points of painted Iron Hands, and 500 points of Salamanders. I like both for lore reasons and have had a hard time deciding. Now it's pointless.
@@jasonmiller7133 This is exactly my dilemma. Building Iron Hands because I always loved Dreadnought models. Love the lore of Salamanders (I build guns and love they're all their own artificers) and planned to do that next. Now I guess I'll just paint up a few here and there for variety sake.
Well this saves me money starting a raven guard army :(
I really, REALLY, dont get why people oppose to different paints having different rules.... its their identity, connected to the lore (fluff should you so wish). If the lore is not important to you, you dont have to use any paint, or even models. You are allowed to play with rocks if you wish.
Either you give lore some importance or you dont. Dont claim to like lore and then complain when it effects your army. Its intended.
This is really just SM catching up with everyone else in regards to subfaction. Welcome to how CSM have functioned for two whole editions SM players
When subfaction codices inevitably come out, I hope GW just put all the available datasheets in that codex and not require the base codex as well, I play Imperial Fists so I just want an Imperial Fist codex and not the Space Marine codex AND Imperial Fist subfaction codex.
So glad we gave up unique warlord traits, stratagems, auras, psychic powers and relics so everyone can get the same generic flavorless army.
my biggest worry is with how we are getting custom chapters.
before it was "just come up with a rule or two and a stratagem then go wild"
Now Im worried we might just be forced into being differently colored imperial fists or dark angles without and of the unique customizable flavor you got before.
There's no chapter exclusive detachments. There's just some that are lore friendly. For example, it's lore friendly for Iron Hands to take the armored detachment. But any chapter can take the armored detachment without pretending to be Iron Hands, it's just their chapter's Armored company being used. As a custom chapter you're actually in a really good position to make use of any detachment and not be pretending to be someone else. 1st company detachment are your chapters veterans, Recon detachment is your chapters scouts and Phobos units, etc.
We first saw it in the 9th edition CSM codex. "Well, we were gonna make custom warband rules. But we didn't, so you need to just pick one of these legions and use those rules". And that's how this will be. You're a successor of somebody, just use their codex.
@@RSBurgener I mean, except in that not all of the detatchments will even be fluffed after past subfactions, they keep reminding us about the first company one coming.
Custom chapter is basically no named characters and that's it. No other difference to any other chapter.
Still no info on how chapter specific units work and Bobby G has the epic hero keyword which mean you should be able to take him even if you are not running Ultramarines just like you can now. It would be pretty crap if you are literally forced into playing UM or DA if you want to run a primarch. I totally think they should get more bonuses if they are in a UM or DA special detachment but should still be legal options for any chapter..
They called me crazy, they ALL called me crazy, i warned you, all of you! This is the age where they remove sugar from our cereal, and feed us bland oats that taste grey and dull!
Bought up a sizable amount of marines ready for a white scars army. No idea what's to do them as now.. 😐
really hoping for some deathwatch love this new edition
I feel that this is a solution to a non-existant problem. Everyone was already playing whatever faction they wanted, regardless of colorscheme, even in high level tournaments. I saw Iron Hands with the logo of the Khan and Ultramarines with blooddrops etc. Instead now it's less fluff with more streamlining, which I think is a shame. Sure there'll be specific 'salamander style' detachments that focus on flamers or a 'mobile detachement' that seems like White Scars, but it won't have the unique and fun relics or stratagems that make it feel a little bit special and unique imo. A shame.
SM and CSM players are not too happy with those changes. They have distinct subfaction identities.
*cries in Emperor's Children*
EC should get their own codex soon-ish. All will be well, brother. Trust in the dark gods!
I haven't figured out if the epic characters are going to be linked to specific detachments or not? I feel like it might make sense that guilliman would be limited to gladius strike force, adrax agatone might be limited to "incineration expedition" and kayvan shrike might be limited to " infiltration vanguard" (or whatever the appropriate detachments are called).
It might also limit there from just being an optimum combination of characters and detachment, to a small extent.
For Forgeworld models do we have to wait for Imperial Armour or will there be a drop of datacards straight away?
I've a Minotaurs army and now have there 3 Forgeworld models, they haven't had their own proper edition specific faction rules since 7th, and have sort of been on life support in Legends.
I'll wait till the rule books actually drop, I love my Raven Gaurd, hopefully they still have something to make them unique
They've basically confirmed they do not. Definitely not at launch or in the space marine codex. We have to just hope GW realizes how shitty this is and release subfaction supplements.
Oh no one army might have better characters than another so they won't be balanced. We could just balance the damn game, but no that's crazy. By 11th there with be exactly 2 factions in the whole game: light blue Ultramarines and dark blue Ultramarines. Perfect balance at the expense of everything else.
Welp it was fun having the mobility options when I did as RG alongside the cool ass relics and chapter spells. I'm certain w.e generic marine detachment they'll slide our way will be great when literally every other chapter can do it too and maybe depending on available characters be better. I'm certain these changes are going to put the boys in blue ahead of everyone thats codex compliant.
Do you not think that’s a bit of a weird take though? The Raven Guard still have tanks, the White Scars don’t ride bikes down the hallways of space hulks, Imperial Fists have an assault company and a traditional of fighting with swords etc. Like it or not they are Codex chapters that have the full array of wargear available to them, they can all fight in any way that is needed.
My favourite example is from the 3rd Armageddon War, the Blood Angels armoured support for 3rd Company falling to the Black Rage as Tycho fought the Ork Warboss in the breach, great narrative but also shows the Blood Angels were able to deploy an entire Armoured Formation. They aren’t Iron Hands so would this be weird for someone to run in game?
Also shout out to the Storm Giants, had the Blood Angels backs when it mattered!
@@jono_cc2258 I agree - a lot of people tend to forget that 90% of marine chapters are basically identical to each each other in makeup, and even the divergent ones don't JUST have their specialised units in them. There were just as many Devastator squads in the White Scars as in the Iron Hands, it's just that their tabletop rules meant you saw them a lot less. I don't know how much effect the 10th edition rules will have on competative gameplay, but it makes sense fluff wise the way they're doing it.
@@jono_cc2258 No it isn't ....having everything aside from unique characters gutted from your faction, to be replaced with nothing but generalist all rounder tactics and relics sounds like something made for ultras. Never once did I say that codex chapters don't use things that all the others do. It's the things that made them standout that mattered and that is effectively gone reducing them to just fancy looking ultras.
Hmmm, speaking of divergent chapters, since the DA are getting stuff redone and non-chaos fallen are joining the Primarch, will they be a separate entry in the codex, or will they be fully absorbed back (at least in terms of rules and profiles) in the mail DA "fold"?
So is it like custom chapters now? There will be a selection to choose from and you pick one or two?
Also will there be space marine specific strategems?
If so i guess you can make your army play like one of the space marine factions. Only problem is in competitive matches everyone will use what's best in every slot giving mostly mirror match ups
As a DA army builder I'm happy I'm not going to be forced to do nothing but Deathwing termies - can do some consecrators etc for rule of cool and they should still pack thew same punch right? Good times
I think they've just backed themselves into a corner when it comes to dealing with Space Marines. The divergent chapters get the special rules and units while the others just get lumped together. GW wanted to have their cake and eat it too, wanting you to buy new codexes and new HQ's, but not really giving the compliant chapters anything truly unique about them. It makes me somewhat sad as a Salamander player that my best boys in green are probably going to be boiled down to a single detachment involving a +1 to wound to meltas and flamers or something boring like that.
So white scars and their stormseers are basically gone then?
I play a Celestial Lions army using BT rules at the moment and for someone like me this update is really useful due to the fact that I can change that play style is needed fairly easily
This kinda reminds me of 6th edition, where my chaos marines had only the CSM faction, and there were several named characters that weren't really limited beyond the number of HQ slots in the detachment. But the characters had abilities like "if this character is in your detachment, units of chosen are troops instead of elites." So like, it's more limited than that now, but the idea that you would sort of make your own "legion" by including characters so you could run a bunch of one unit instead of only the 3 elites you're allowed to take, is pretty close to how this is explained. Just now, the characters are being limited instead of the other units.
Divergent chapters as separate armies makes a lot of sense
can't wait for my freshly painted Alpha legion army to lose all of the unique weird stuff they have that gives them a different style in favor of becoming generic Chaos space marines again
Dawn of War Soulstorm players: first time?
Thanks for clearing this up.
Please tell me Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists are getting some loving!
foreal, I'm makin my first army the crimson fists despite how bad I heard they were, be nice to hear them get an upgrade
@@Boosttackleet more into the hobby and not the game. Its mot about the game. Read books, immerse yourself in the lore. The game isnt the point.
@@LongWarEnjoyer The game is a part of the hobby, there is more than just collecting and painting.
@@LongWarEnjoyer Oh I am, I just wanna play the game too. Was gonna go Crimson Fists even if they sucked.
@@Boosttackle Imagine Primaris Pedro or Cortez 😲😍
As someone who collects Imperial Fists I see this as an absolute win.
As Salamander player I’m really concerned and worried; green ultramarines using a sub-optimal amount of flamers.
Honestly feels awful.
As and iron hands player you have my full sympathy.
I liked have a feel no pain, and losing it will be sad.
As a Raven Guard player, not only did GW nerf our rules into oblivion, not only did they give us no new characters or support, but we held the lowest SW win rate for most of 9th. But at least we still had our fluffy mechanics.
Nay, they've finally taken that too. Now we're just emo Ultramarines. Epic sadge.
I was a bit opposed to consolidating all the Marines together, but after thinking about it, this is just doing the same as the Chaos codex- the ones with really special rules get their own thing, and the rest are just slightly different flavors of the same.
Although I'm biased, I do think it's a good decision to limit the comical amount if marine codexes, but I'm also happy that black templars get their own codex. It would be strange with the 5 primaris kits they got in 9th to end up being generic after all that