The Moonraker antennas are yagis with quad reflectors. The old PDL II was a great little 2 element quad with a very unique gamna feed system making it a hybrid yagi feeding a quad element allowing for switchable vertical and horizontal polarized signals.
The moonraker 4 was a great antenna back in the 70’s till ice storms hit. A guy actually had a moonraker 8 and it was huge. My ground plane was a Astro Plane and it held up for years. All out of business now.
A few notes on true quads. A quad will have a tighter front to side ratio and lower static than a yagi. Quads when compared to yagis mounted the same height, will have a lower radiation angle which is critical for 11m. Fun fact The quad antenna was originally developed to solve corona flash issues at a shortwave broadcast station.
Thanks for that. So there are even more benefits. I should do a video on angle of radiation. I think height above ground being an even greater factor if I'm not mistaken. I appreciate your input.
@@Z28videogates I worked with Signal Engineering from 1990 to 2010. I was responsible for the design of the Lightning 8 by beefing up the boom and the more complex truss system over the L6 design. When SE went out of business due to owner health, on of the workers there took over the quad manufacturing hence the Lightning antennas you see now.
Glad you liked it! I think all of them handle legal limit (1500 watts) but the issue I had and why I didn't cover power is many offer options for higher power. Example, Maco offers 5kw, 10kw gammas etc. so more power is always an option. But I hear you, some do have higher power handling out of the box than others.
I like how the Innov (and another antenna) have accurate claims. Obviously the down side with these antennas is in practicality, they'd be quite sensitive to direction with such a narrow beamwidth. For me, the perfect balance with gain, rejection and usability is a 4 element LFA. Plus, they're quiet.
I find my L 10 laser like and I love it.I also don’t measure or am I fussed about DB gain,gain to me is a tight pattern and a narrow lobe,just the way I like it,for example the difference between an 8 and a 10 is quite noticeable as I’ve had an 8 element as well
Nice to see that Motormouth Maul is doing it with the antenna as well. So he's the complete package, audio, power, and gain. I hear him here in Australia.
I use 27:025 to see if the conditions are good, that about all I listen to the "Super bowl" . But I have heard this motor mouth maul here in Tennessee and have to say his rig is the best sounding one I have heard on 27:025 .
I heard .64 is the ultimate before the pattern starts collapsing on itself but then another argument against it is apparently the peak gain angle of radiation is higher. It never ends does it? LOL. I say try and it and I'm sure it will do well. Here is info on someone who did modeling on the .64... www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/4j7mvd/64_wavelength_secret_can_anyone_attest_to_its/
@@Z28videogates I'm in the process of buying a 6+6 Cross Jogunn. The 4 Star Jogunn appeared to be the best performer. The 8 stars rejecting n was so high it was extremely difficult to hear other stations.
You would need 15m spacing or so between the yagis. so it means a big 60m high tower or a very large H-frame. You could probably hear your own echo via EME with low sky noise and a kilowatt..
There used to be another beam manufacture called Gizmotchy. They made 11 meter beam antennas, like up to 6 elements but they also sold element add-on kits. So I guess you could customize your antenna and add as many elements as you like. It was a pretty nasty antenna too. I had a friend who had a 9 element that lived 3.5 miles away from me and when he'd point it at me, he was able to cover up my neighbor who lived only 10 houses (1,000 feet) away from me. I dunno if they are still in business but their website is still up.
Thanks for the reply! I checked and I missed looking them up. I guess I lucked out though - I checked and they wouldn't have made the list here anyway. The biggest antenna they list is only 20 feet .... www.gizmotchy.com/10and11MeterBeams.html
Oh ok. I was just checking out their site and it looks like they make larger ones than the 6 but they don't list them or their specifications. It says contact them regarding those. In the "EXTREME GIZMOTCHY" section, there's some photos of a 12 element. Maybe those are just like custom built now?
just completed a 11 element vertical , will be putting up soon ,dont like quads , too much wire , our winters up in Canada are a bit extreme , ice storms , high winds etc
11 elements! How big is the boom on that? Curious what did you run before and how do you like this new antenna vs. the old one? What did you most see a difference of?
Hello my friend , good video , using my wifes youtube , I have been into 11 meters since 1972 , about 5 years ago got my ham ticket , but have always come back to 11 meters , have used many antennas , flatside and vertical , and just finished doing some comparisons between beams on both polarities , remember now that 90 % of all communication done on 11 meters is vertical , mobiles to mobiles , bases to bases , etc, when the solar cycles pick up is when DX is achieved , this means anything beyond the 150 mile radius , when there are no conditions its local traffic only within that radius , most people put up an easy to erect vertical such as Antrons , big sticks , 5/8 , etc. , I found no advantage to a flatside except its a little quieter , the eleven element is 68 foot boom , 3 inch square aluminum on vertical, chat soon cheers from Canada @@Z28videogates
I ran a lighting l4 it was a total pos ran it for a week took it down sold it put the maco m104c back up 188 snow beast put up a lighting l8 and his gizmotchy 8 would stomp absolute shit stains in the quad so im not impressed with lighting quads but I can't lie the build quality was super nice
This is not a fact. Only thing "quad" a moonraker offers is the reflector is in a diamond shaped loop configuration. It is a gamma fed yagi. L6 in s voltage fed antenna. Basically a dipole feeding a full wave loop. 2 completely different designs.
@@roynorman3650 Yes you gain about 1.5dBi. But adding the 4th element, you really increase the size and weight of the antenna. Unless you have a lot of space and don't mind it sure but it might not even be worth it. You can use this to get an estimate of gain www.changpuak.ch/electronics/yagi_uda_antenna_DL6WU.php
How do these company's stay in business? Consider the small percentage of people who actually buy these monster antennas then out of those how long the antenna lasts before that operator buys another. The manufacturer must make most of their money on smaller antennas that keep getting destroyed by lightning or tornados/ etc, etc and so on.
@@Z28videogates No sir. The more rejection the less the receive from other directions. When your talking skip you want to be able to have less rejection to hear stations outside your rejection range.
@@michaelgilreath1025 I think for most people, more rejection is actually what they want with a beam so typically the more the better - or you might as well just go to using a vertical and hear everything.
The radiation pattern for any directional antenna is teardrop shaped. The specifications for "rejection" are typically given for the side and rear of the antenna. The whole idea of a directional antenna is to focus on the direction that the antenna is pointing.
Got a homemade 2 element quad and frequently talk from Ohio to Hawaii or Europe on very little wattage. My problem with CB is the toilet bowl (ch.6) guys bleeding 10 channels up or down running trash radios with 50,000 watts. Push what you want but for God sakes get a decent radio that don't pollute the whole band. Sad when local guys can't talk 100kz away from you because your radio is trash and you sound like a broken record.
Yeah I know what you mean, in the 70's I had an 80 watt modified 26/27 mhz Johnson Viking 4740 running through a 200 watts amp that caused heaps of spatter. 🙄
@@lilbump406 I hear ya. Lot's snake oil in the CB radio world. Notice the dB gain numbers that are more close to reality than what is claimed. It seems they all do it, some more than others. Can't really defy the laws of physics.
@@Z28videogates Sorry to say, but the antenna manufacturers engaged in "puffery" decades ago too. Case in point: Antenna Specialists touted their Starduster as having "5db gain" and a "zero up angle of radiation". Well, it didn't work out for me like that. For years I had an original Penetrator on a 30 foot tower. When the tower failed due to rusted legs I put up a Starduster on the house at the same height as the Penetrator. The first thing I noticed was that I could no longer hear the trucks on the Pennsylvania Turnpike some 20 miles away. Local stations on the fringes of the Penetrator also disappeared. I couldn't hear them and they couldn't hear me. I kept the Starduster up for five years before replacing it with a Super Magnum. The Turnpike truckers returned, along with the locals that I used to talk to. The bottom line is that despite all of the puffery the Starduster is little more than a halfwave dipole. Antennas must obey the rules of physics; people who write ad copy don't, and apparently they still don't. The bottom line is that the larger the antenna the more area it has to capture the signals.
Happy with my Maco 4 element yagi. Best contact was Eastern Europe on 5 Watts pep on 38 LSB. Anything over a 4 element is overkill. Notice in HF most multi banded yagi's are usually 3 or 4 elements. Only in CB are monster 6- 8+ elements a thing.
Moonraker 6 was a bad ass quad back in the day!!
Yes it was!
I helped a friend raise one many years ago and it was amazing how much area was taken up in his back yard during assembly.
The Moonraker antennas are yagis with quad reflectors.
The old PDL II was a great little 2 element quad with a very unique gamna feed system making it a hybrid yagi feeding a quad element allowing for switchable vertical and horizontal polarized signals.
That was a very interesting video, thanks for that it’s nice to see my L 10 on top of the list,regards Danny world Radio 677 Tasmania
Do you have a lightning antenna, Danny?
535.
@@arconeagain Hi Jeremy yes I do it’s a lightning L 10 mate
The moonraker 4 was a great antenna back in the 70’s till ice storms hit. A guy actually had a moonraker 8 and it was huge. My ground plane was a Astro Plane and it held up for years. All out of business now.
A few notes on true quads. A quad will have a tighter front to side ratio and lower static than a yagi. Quads when compared to yagis mounted the same height, will have a lower radiation angle which is critical for 11m.
Fun fact
The quad antenna was originally developed to solve corona flash issues at a shortwave broadcast station.
Thanks for that. So there are even more benefits. I should do a video on angle of radiation. I think height above ground being an even greater factor if I'm not mistaken. I appreciate your input.
@@Z28videogates
I worked with Signal Engineering from 1990 to 2010. I was responsible for the design of the Lightning 8 by beefing up the boom and the more complex truss system over the L6 design. When SE went out of business due to owner health, on of the workers there took over the quad manufacturing hence the Lightning antennas you see now.
Thank you for this video . Beams are cool- LOL. 21 Old Radio Night
Nice. Very informative video.
If you do a follow up I'd really like to know the power handling capabilities of those monsters.
Glad you liked it! I think all of them handle legal limit (1500 watts) but the issue I had and why I didn't cover power is many offer options for higher power. Example, Maco offers 5kw, 10kw gammas etc. so more power is always an option. But I hear you, some do have higher power handling out of the box than others.
I like how the Innov (and another antenna) have accurate claims.
Obviously the down side with these antennas is in practicality, they'd be quite sensitive to direction with such a narrow beamwidth. For me, the perfect balance with gain, rejection and usability is a 4 element LFA. Plus, they're quiet.
I find my L 10 laser like and I love it.I also don’t measure or am I fussed about DB gain,gain to me is a tight pattern and a narrow lobe,just the way I like it,for example the difference between an 8 and a 10 is quite noticeable as I’ve had an 8 element as well
Nice to see that Motormouth Maul is doing it with the antenna as well. So he's the complete package, audio, power, and gain. I hear him here in Australia.
I use 27:025 to see if the conditions are good, that about all I listen to the
"Super bowl" . But I have heard this motor mouth maul here in Tennessee and have to say his rig is the best sounding one I have heard on 27:025 .
He really has a good station, love listening to him, soldier boy (101) on UA-cam good Dxing 73s.
The laser 400 is 31ft and is a 6 element standard. 12 element, dual polarity.
Yeah I realized that too after the vid - I put that in the description. Good catch.
Great video. I would be interested in seeing how some of the better smaller ones compare to those
The 4,6,and 8 element lighting qubicle quads work very well,as I’ve head them on air
I built my own six ele. Moonraker good antana flat and vertical 😊
Very interesting and informative.soldier boy 101 on UA-cam, keep up the good work 👍.
Thanks!
Well done . Thank you
Try a sirio 27 4 element beam vs other 3 to 4 element beams on the market for those of us who can only afford them thanks!
Dan
Howdy doody 😊
Got myself a Crossbow .64 I hope to get up someday.
I think that’s the best I can do……..for now.
10-4 on those big beams though.
I heard .64 is the ultimate before the pattern starts collapsing on itself but then another argument against it is apparently the peak gain angle of radiation is higher. It never ends does it? LOL. I say try and it and I'm sure it will do well. Here is info on someone who did modeling on the .64... www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/4j7mvd/64_wavelength_secret_can_anyone_attest_to_its/
CUBEX QUADS Antennas have some good Antennas that you did not mentioned
Thanks! I never heard of them. I'll check it out.
Thank you for the comparison! I have owned several Jogunns but the 8 Star wasn't a good performer.
Which one was your favorite? What beam are you using now?
@@Z28videogates I'm in the process of buying a 6+6 Cross Jogunn. The 4 Star Jogunn appeared to be the best performer. The 8 stars rejecting n was so high it was extremely difficult to hear other stations.
I'm determining that the 6+6 Cross will be a excellent performer due to the balance between the large Jogunn and the smaller ones.
Dang I never knew they made such big antennas.
imagine like 4 of these long yagis combined, that should have about 18dB gain. on top of a mountain that will hear whatever there is on the frequency.
You would need 15m spacing or so between the yagis. so it means a big 60m high tower or a very large H-frame. You could probably hear your own echo via EME with low sky noise and a kilowatt..
6x Moonraker 6 phased in a H Stack, on a 100ft tower, estimated gain 21dBi
Some them boys down in Texas have a few large home brew beasts.
True!!
Innov Antennas 4 element 27MHz LFA-Q Quad Beam
I like my 4 ele LFA too, but I hear the Q's are good. Is your Q insulated from the boom, or is it like a plumber's delight?
There used to be another beam manufacture called Gizmotchy. They made 11 meter beam antennas, like up to 6 elements but they also sold element add-on kits. So I guess you could customize your antenna and add as many elements as you like. It was a pretty nasty antenna too. I had a friend who had a 9 element that lived 3.5 miles away from me and when he'd point it at me, he was able to cover up my neighbor who lived only 10 houses (1,000 feet) away from me. I dunno if they are still in business but their website is still up.
Thanks for the reply! I checked and I missed looking them up. I guess I lucked out though - I checked and they wouldn't have made the list here anyway. The biggest antenna they list is only 20 feet .... www.gizmotchy.com/10and11MeterBeams.html
Oh ok. I was just checking out their site and it looks like they make larger ones than the 6 but they don't list them or their specifications. It says contact them regarding those. In the "EXTREME GIZMOTCHY" section, there's some photos of a 12 element. Maybe those are just like custom built now?
@@emerituse3390 Dang now I see it and they got some custom monsters! Thank you for sharing. Maybe I gotta do some updates!
Gizmotchy is still running strong.
@@michaelgilreath1025 I emailed them and no reply back over a week ago. Bummer.
just completed a 11 element vertical , will be putting up soon ,dont like quads , too much wire , our winters up in Canada are a bit extreme , ice storms , high winds etc
11 elements! How big is the boom on that? Curious what did you run before and how do you like this new antenna vs. the old one? What did you most see a difference of?
Hello my friend , good video , using my wifes youtube , I have been into 11 meters since 1972 , about 5 years ago got my ham ticket , but have always come back to 11 meters , have used many antennas , flatside and vertical , and just finished doing some comparisons between beams on both polarities , remember now that 90 % of all communication done on 11 meters is vertical , mobiles to mobiles , bases to bases , etc, when the solar cycles pick up is when DX is achieved , this means anything beyond the 150 mile radius , when there are no conditions its local traffic only within that radius , most people put up an easy to erect vertical such as Antrons , big sticks , 5/8 , etc. , I found no advantage to a flatside except its a little quieter , the eleven element is 68 foot boom , 3 inch square aluminum on vertical, chat soon cheers from Canada @@Z28videogates
What about the Avanti MOONRAKER 6?
Yessir!.. that was a bad boy back in the day
Back in the day a run a moonraker 6
I ran a lighting l4 it was a total pos ran it for a week took it down sold it put the maco m104c back up 188 snow beast put up a lighting l8 and his gizmotchy 8 would stomp absolute shit stains in the quad so im not impressed with lighting quads but I can't lie the build quality was super nice
Size matters, but just like poker, a pair of 4s will beat a 10.
The Lighting Antenna L6 is a copy of the old school 80's Moonraker 6
This is not a fact. Only thing "quad" a moonraker offers is the reflector is in a diamond shaped loop configuration. It is a gamma fed yagi. L6 in s voltage fed antenna. Basically a dipole feeding a full wave loop. 2 completely different designs.
What beam should I choose?
Best bang for the buck is the Maco 103C in my opinion. If you can afford more, do it but if it's your first beam, it's a great beam to start with.
@@Z28videogates i hear adding an element only gives 1 db, is this true?
@@roynorman3650 Yes you gain about 1.5dBi. But adding the 4th element, you really increase the size and weight of the antenna. Unless you have a lot of space and don't mind it sure but it might not even be worth it. You can use this to get an estimate of gain www.changpuak.ch/electronics/yagi_uda_antenna_DL6WU.php
@@Z28videogates I have a crank up tower but nothing to mount on it yet, so getting ideas. Do you own any towers?
@Z28 Do you have a contact for CB shop talk?
Can you provide more detail?
Cool Video you can't go past a QUAD
Peter Gore Seer,
These Antana, Need Lift And Power, A mobile Antenna On A Tin Can Work As Good With Lift.
How do these company's stay in business? Consider the small percentage of people who actually buy these monster antennas then out of those how long the antenna lasts before that operator buys another. The manufacturer must make most of their money on smaller antennas that keep getting destroyed by lightning or tornados/ etc, etc and so on.
On the right is a Jogunn 8+8 Star not conventional. The rejection is so high you can't hear anything.
Can you explain more? I thought you "want" to have rejection?
@@Z28videogates No sir. The more rejection the less the receive from other directions. When your talking skip you want to be able to have less rejection to hear stations outside your rejection range.
@@Z28videogates No way to contact you out of here or could go into greater depth.
@@michaelgilreath1025 I think for most people, more rejection is actually what they want with a beam so typically the more the better - or you might as well just go to using a vertical and hear everything.
The radiation pattern for any directional antenna is teardrop shaped. The specifications for "rejection" are typically given for the side and rear of the antenna. The whole idea of a directional antenna is to focus on the direction that the antenna is pointing.
Wilson had a 20 element (10 each side) back in the 1970s.,
If you have a link to any history or manual, please share. Thanks!
dBd is the way to go. dBi could be compared to coax in a mud puddle
Pretty much. You know the 2.14 dBi thing but dBi sounds better, it makes the gain value a bigger number so it looks better. 73!
I have a Laser 500 brand new in box if anyone is looking.
Narrow Ears on the Big Boomers
👋
😎😀 nobody allows those in the the neighborhood anymore the neighborhood association and have me fireballs
Got a homemade 2 element quad and frequently talk from Ohio to Hawaii or Europe on very little wattage. My problem with CB is the toilet bowl (ch.6) guys bleeding 10 channels up or down running trash radios with 50,000 watts. Push what you want but for God sakes get a decent radio that don't pollute the whole band. Sad when local guys can't talk 100kz away from you because your radio is trash and you sound like a broken record.
Yeah I know what you mean, in the 70's I had an 80 watt modified 26/27 mhz Johnson Viking 4740 running through a 200 watts amp that caused heaps of spatter. 🙄
Next time plz turn up your mike gain. Ps I only had a 3 element yargi on 26/27 mhz.
Your calculated gain figures are wayoff..
You could not pay me to run a Jo gunn antenna. Just a bunch of snake oil.
Curious, what happened?
@Z28 Videogates Too much false advertisement. They do not perform. Cost twice as much. Jo gunn should be ashamed on how they advertise their antennas.
@@lilbump406 I hear ya. Lot's snake oil in the CB radio world. Notice the dB gain numbers that are more close to reality than what is claimed. It seems they all do it, some more than others. Can't really defy the laws of physics.
@@Z28videogates Sorry to say, but the antenna manufacturers engaged in "puffery" decades ago too. Case in point:
Antenna Specialists touted their Starduster as having "5db gain" and a "zero up angle of radiation". Well, it didn't work out for me like that.
For years I had an original Penetrator on a 30 foot tower. When the tower failed due to rusted legs I put up a Starduster on the house at the same height as the Penetrator. The first thing I noticed was that I could no longer hear the trucks on the Pennsylvania Turnpike some 20 miles away. Local stations on the fringes of the Penetrator also disappeared. I couldn't hear them and they couldn't hear me. I kept the Starduster up for five years before replacing it with a Super Magnum. The Turnpike truckers returned, along with the locals that I used to talk to.
The bottom line is that despite all of the puffery the Starduster is little more than a halfwave dipole.
Antennas must obey the rules of physics; people who write ad copy don't, and apparently they still don't.
The bottom line is that the larger the antenna the more area it has to capture the signals.
Happy with my Maco 4 element yagi.
Best contact was Eastern Europe on 5 Watts pep on 38 LSB.
Anything over a 4 element is overkill.
Notice in HF most multi banded yagi's are usually 3 or 4 elements.
Only in CB are monster 6- 8+ elements a thing.