First Class For Free In London
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2018
- On many trains in London (and across the country too) there is what's known as 'Declassified First Class'. In layman's terms: the train used has a first class area on a route where no first class ticketing is available, which means that you can sit in the first class bit, on a standard class ticket.
We thought we'd show you where some of them are in London - there's a complete list below. If you know of any others, please tell us in the comments.
In all these cases, CHECK THE TIMETABLE to see if there is a '1' in at the top of the column. If there's not - there is no first class on this train, but there may be First Class seating. We're not responsible if you get it wrong!
Southern:
Have declassified first class on all their inner London Suburban metro routes. If you find yourself on a long train with ten carriages instead of eight, it'll most likely have first class. Check the timetable and there won't be a '1', so you can sit in it.
South West Railway:
Trains that go round the Hounslow Loop and to Windsor & Eton can have a first class area that is declassified - look out for the 450 or 458 trains.
Greater Anglia:
Services that run to Hertford East often have a declassified first class section.
Great Northern:
King's Cross to Welwyn Garden City often use trains with a first class area, but again this route does not have first class tickets.
Thameslink:
Is ALWAYS declassified on the Sevenoaks and Sutton loop trains, or just the back of the train on Bedford/Brighton trains.
Romford to Upmister (Emerson Park branch)
If they're using a 317 train, there's an area that is standard class, but still has the old first class style seats.
GWR
There are some services out of Paddington that use trains where first class has been converted to standard class, but the superior seats remain.
Thanks to EVERYONE for Subscribing and getting us to 100,000 subs!
Londonist Ltd no thx man good job on getting the 100000 subs
Cheers :)
Yay :DD Excited to see your play button.
congrats!!
Londonist Ltd For the 1st class overground just come to Liverpool street, most(If not all ) 317 have first class
Liverpool St to Hertford East is operated by a 2 class 317 with declassified 1st class, with the occasional 370
I recently went from Poole to Southampton on the train with a standard class ticket, but there were no seats available. The train guard said "Go and sit in First Class - plenty of seats there" ... so I did.
"...we're going to have to be slightly nerdy and look at some train numbers."
Oh yes.
Nah, nerdy is when you start talking headcodes e.g. “Well Geoff, of course it’s declassified - you travelled on 2M44 which has never had an operating first class compartment, except prior to 1988 when, under the code 2D45, the consist carried a DMFL which was classified first etc. etc...”
🍆
He may be looking at train numbers, but he isn't writing down train numbers.
69 likes
“Oh, mama....@
"First class"
You get an armrest. Oh wow.
@@incognito9292 and a thing on your chair
In a 465/9, you get 2+2 seats, which are more comfortable, an armrest, carpet, napkin and a table. In 375s a napkin is all you get 🤣
“Sometimes they use the long distance trains on the local suburban metro services” That aged well as it is not rare
Word of the day: "this thing" is an Antimacassar. Somewhere I have an old one from the Great Northern Railway (Ireland).
Richard Huss. Indeed, and as you probably know (but others may not) was derived from macassar oil which was a common hair "gel" in the 19th century. Thus an antimacassar was used as a covering on chair backs to protect them. It's the same sort of thing on a sailor's uniform dating from the days when sailors commonly wore their hair in a "queue", otherwise known as a pigtail.
I was going to say that, but thought I would check to see if anybody else had mentioned that they are antimacassars. I know that checking first to see if a point has already been made isn't they way things are usually done in comment sections, but I'm old fashioned like that.
Christopher Luxford Thank you for checking. I Hate it when a good portion of the comments are morons too lazy to check. 👍
@@luxford60 Same and same!
I got a weird feeling that this video is totally pointless for me but enjoyed it nonetheless
This is a first class video, except when it's in Orpington.
I'm on a train from Basingstoke to Reading and I am sitting in a declassified first class compartment on a class 166! Had proof from the guard but it doesn't happen often
Oh Londonist, there's an error in the description. Should be 458 not 258.
The beef I've always had with First Class travel on the UK rail network is eight times out of ten it's rarely much of an upgrade compared to standard class. Seats aren't much different to standard, features are usually equal or minimal as well. This is even worse on the Electrostar trains and 458/5s where there are no doors between the areas separating them.
I don't know what to expect, really. I don't need Emirates A380 swivelling seats in a First Class train from London to Bracknell. But at the same time the current standard seems like a bit of a quiet scam for double the price.
I feel the main function of 1st class is that you have a higher chance of actually getting a seat.
Maverick Hunter Daniel Yeah would be nice if they would have wifi or a slight recline in First, or something.
As Geoff mentioned, amenities tend to sum up to a table, an armrest, and a cloth-thingy behind your head. And maybe an outlet.
On the shorter london bound services the only benefit 1st class gives you is you are pretty much guaranteed a seat and so it is used by 1st class season ticket holders only for the most part.
You can usually get a seat on busy services
The Luton to Rainham (Kent) Thameslink service, introduced in May 2018 (still only Kentish Town to Rainham at weekends) also has fully declassified First Class, at both ends of the trains.
Until they started running the new electric trains as stoppers from Paddington, almost all (if not all) the GWR stoppers had turbos with first class on a standard only service. The seats on them (they still run a few, but mainly from Didcot northbound) are actually not just visually different but WAY more comfortable! Softer seats, slightly wider, plus sometimes tables or trays, overhead lights, plug sockets, luggage space. GWR Nerd here, over & out.
I want to respond under and in just to confuse people.
I now live on the other side of the pond and have never lived in London yet I'm hooked on these videos!
Geoff - the Romford branch now only uses 315 units. However the class 317 units are now mainly used on the London Overground routes out of Liverpool Street where all first class is declsssified and on some units you can see the sealed up toilets and defunct buffet bar
Well Done for 100,000 subs; it is a joy to watch your videos. Thanks for all your hard work :) !
The 315s and 317s on the Romford to Upminster Line are all but a memory now!
Good job in getting 100K! I’ll be here until you reach 1M!
Haris Holmes probably
Interesting video Londonist and nice to see Geoff presenting.
The 315 at the end could play a starring role in a power washer video on here. Filthy.
On C2C (Shoeburyness to Fenchurch St), they have leased class 387 trains with a first class section (partition doors, thicker seat padding, larger tables and more space) though again the line does not have 1st class at all. This is a new train and the "1st" sections are in the quiet zone as such it is a really nice ride. Luckily I live by the terminus since it fills quickly, and people rarely stand in that section too!
Congrats on 100k, you all earnt it. Been watching for ages and love your content, here's to 1 million!
Great video Geoff, A few weeks ago, I went onto the new Thameslink Class 700 train from Hitchin to St Pancras and I got on the wrong carriage onto the first Class and was about to walk through to the standard Class Carriage and I bumped into the ticket inspector and I was told I could sit in the first class carriage as far as Finsbury Park and when the train arrive at Finsbury Park, must travel in the Standard Class carriage.
Another great video and very informative.
Congratulations on reaching a milestone 100,000 subs.👍
Great video. I travel on 377/1s and /4s all the time and they hmare gradually being fitted with plugs on 1st only. I think /6s and /7 might have them so there's a reasonable reason to travel in declassified 1st!
I don't even know what you're doing.
But I like it.
I’ve done this quite a few times! The most recent being the 15:12 York - Barrow-in-Furness (pre May 2019 timetable change). It was formed of a former ScotRail 158, and I also had that same unit on the 09:19 Leeds - Carlisle today!
We have this on some trains in Scotland as well, my usual train route most of the time operates trains with decommissioned first class, it’s great
The advantage of a first ticket apart from the seat etc is the ability to use first class lounge facilities at either end. I found Virgin lounge in Euton to be pretty decent as well as Liverpool first class lounge, unlimited coffee, fruits, pastry, pop etc plus a different ambience.
mmm - yes, make me into a walking paddling pool of top notch caffeine. and then slosh along tracks as necessary.
Very interesting video. That's a First Class YT channel! Congratulations for reaching the 100k subscribers goal!
In the "old" days, this was fairly rare but there were some mainline trains which had more first class on than could be justified by the loadings and staff would stick "for use of 2nd class ticket holders" on the windows. Mostly on HAPs as I recall.
Good to see you on Londonist Geoff. This is how I found your own channel in the first place.
EDIT: More secrets of the Underground!
Hello There, cheers for the video, a really decent series of coverage and how you can get a bit more comfort for less. Cheers Peter
Absolutely fascinating, thanks for the heads up Geoff!
100,000 subs. Brilliant achievement.
How they have the nerve to call those awful seats First Class, I do not know.
You can also travel aboard a London Overground Class 317 in the First Class cabin on the following routes:
* London Liverpool Street - Hackney Downs - Cheshunt
* London Liverpool Street - Hackney Downs - Chingford
* London Liverpool Street - Hackney Downs - Enfield Town
NOTE: You cannot travel aboard a Greater Anglia Class 317 or Class 321 in the First Class cabin unless you have a valid First Class ticket. Kind regards, Peter Skuce.
Unless it's on the Hertford East branch, they are declassified
The Class 465/9s used to be Class 465/2s when they were new in the 1990s - but 201 to 239 were refurbished around 14 years ago and became /9s
This class 465/9s replaced the life expired class 423 VEP slam door stock which was withdrawn in october 2005
Another one - very obscure though - is a handful of the Greater Anglia 321s. Some that are in the old National Express Grey/White livery have standard class seats which used to be first class, but are no longer marked as so (This is because the first class used to be in 2/3ds of the end carriage, but to synchronise them with the rest of the fleet, this was reduced to 1/3rd. Nobody could be bothered to change the seats though.). Unfortunately, it's quite rare that one comes around...
Yay! My train is declassified! I can party (or sit) in first class!
I always travel declassified first class, on thameslink/ great northern class 700s
This is a awesome youtube channel
Awesome Video!
Don't worry about getting geeky with the numbers, Geoff!
I love the sound of the 465
Don’t apologise for geeking...I love it...bring it on!
Apologize
London Overground lines to Cheshunt and Enfield also have former first class seats (like on the Romford to Upminster Services) on some trains
The only difference in Germanys local commuter trains (they mostly all have a first class section)- they really doesn't have more things than a wider seat with leather instead of the classic dirty textiles. No special service at all.
But you benefit from the inability of Germans riding with a wrong ticket... Like literally, the whole train is overcrowded. They get pressed onto the door dividing second to first class, and nobody ever tries to get through that door without the right ticket... - And upgrade tickets are mostly sold to have some spare ones in the wallet. If you recognize a possible overcrowding you can simply use one of your spare upgrades and you at least get a seat in a silent compartment and nobody is touching you at all, instead of when getting into the trains.
But they nearly all ask you to make sure you don't enter the wrong class before letting you through - if you're not dressed like the matrix movie Agents...
But the best benefits and anomalies of german commuter trains: They work literally reverse. If second class is overcrowded due to holidays, first is nearly empty - and if you're right in the middle between two holiday seasons, you could have trouble to find a seat in first class and the silence isn't really different, just the speaker topics change... It's not the last holiday or what people have cooked, it's about how a companies department needs to be structured, about how to save a company from bankruptcy, about how to choose the right people who applied to a job... - Even then it's more interesting to ride first class...
You get to sit away from the riffraff, which is good 😌👍
DID YOU KNOW GEOFF:
The Class 315 trains originally operated on TFL Rail when it was taken over by TFL. The Class 345’s then replaced the 315’s and I do believe the TFL Rail 315’s went to the Overground
In Serbia, on 493 bus line it was just a lottery.
You could get:
Rusted, loud and torn bendy bus.
Normal suburban bus
City solo bus
High riding coatch with leather seats
Urban double decker
Long distance double decker
You can do this in Glasgow from queen street station on a 170 to dumblane,Stirling and Alloa
There's also one or two trains running on the Liverpool Street to Chingford Overground line that have declassified 1st class seats.
Occasionally you get lucky and can nab a nice big seat!!
The Liverpool Street overground line with the old trains still have first class seats but they're not labelled as such an you can see the difference between what used to be first class and standard
OMG your voice over narration reminds me of Rob Curling.
Oh Geoff, you told everyone the big secret! If I don’t have a declassified 1st class seat on Monday I’m blaming you! 😂
On the GWR Electrostars they have one section of of each carriage which has a doorway segregating it from the other half of the carriage, before GWR had the 387s cascaded from GTR, not really declassified first class but I do like riding in it.
I just love this Londoners astuce videos
So wierd I googled this 3 days ago.. it's like you knew!
Southern used to have the info screens state first class is declassified in the suburbs, but they stupidly got rid of it a couple years back. They really should publicise it more.
In GWRs case, they sometimes put a first class coach that is replacing a standard class coach that has a fault. This therefore means the first class carriage is declassified and is standard class. Look out at Paddington for a first class coach in the middle of the train (HST only this is, this doesn't happen on the new IETs)
Correction: Class 317s are put on any Lea Valley Line Overground service and are declassified on all.
Even the ex-Stansted Express units, which have huge first-class seats
Yes
317's are frequently to be seen on the Liverpool Street to Cheshunt and Chingford services, seldom on Enfield Town for some reason, they're nearly all 315's
321 services on Greater Failure lines also have some seats on some trains that clearly used to be 1st class but aren't anymore and they offer a lot more bum room than normal seats
Could you do a video on Future Tube Lines or potential Lines that Could be built in the future ?
I tried this out on thameslink from St Pancras to Blackfriars
Same with class 222s on the lincoln to leicester
Already mentioned is the Chingford to Liverpool Street line.. the Enfield Town branch also has some trains with permanently declassified 1st class sections
My South Western Railway timetable doesn't have the 1s at the top of the column, but does say in the legend that all services in bold type have first class accommodation, and guess what...all are in bold :-)
Also i have seen with SWR they run 458s and 450s on the Reading line and the Shepperton Branch
321s have the same thing as the 317 in some of them. Nice comfy first class seats that are no longer in first class. Saying that the regular seats there are pretty good too.. Though the refurb has really uncomfortable ones.
Done this once or twice with the Turbos (165/166) that go from Oxford to Paddington (less now), most people don't understand the 1st class is declassified, so free space for me :)
There are reasons why the trains are numbered the way they are if anyone didn’t know. 1 usually for diesel mechanical units. 2. Diesel electric multiple units although rare this classification is used these days. 3 is generally for AC only EMUs a pantograph. 4 traditionally for DC only units.
These days they use the different numbers presumably because a lot of the class 400 series old Southern Region EMUs have been scrapped with the exception of the sliding door units. And also different classes are used because a lot of the numbers have been taken up. It’s known as the TOPS number scheme dating from the late 60s early 70s I believe. The /9 in the 465 series is known as the subclass and is used to denote the various types of unit. In the 465s case the /0s and /1s were built by BREL and ABB in the early 90s. And the /2s and later /9s built to a different design both compatible with each other. GEC Alsthom built the /2s. /9s to denote the first class units. The 5 in the numbers is to avoid confusion. Train units have these numbers for this reason. Same sort of details go for every other type of multiple unit in the country.
Just forget about the Lea Valley Lines which also get 317s...
that's fine guys!
Not exactly the same thing, but the very front seats in the front carriage in standard class on the Braintree to Liverpool Street line are often first class seats. Presumably they made the first class area smaller, but didn't bother changing the seats in standard class. I find them more comfortable, but my partner doesn't!
i dunno why you only showed romford-upminster line for overground, all of the overground trains out of liverpool street sometimes use the 317s as well
Greater Anglia from Stratford to Bishops Stortford also has declassified 1st class
I do the same in the north west which northern doesn't have first class on their trains but when a class 185 or 319/4 comes in then it's first class for me. If a class 319/3 comes in then I find the areas behind the driver's cabs has more legroom.
The Class 377s on the Southern service are now being used on the London Suburban Metro Services at all times replacing the whole fleet of the Class 455s which were withdrawn in May 2022 as well as all Southern services on the entire Southern network apart from the servives on the non-electrfied lines from Ashford to Eastbourne and the London Bridge to Uxfield
You can also sit in first class on the Heathrow express free shuttle service between terminals.
You can also on the GWR line from West Ealing to Greenford and on chiltern in and out of Marylebone on the class 165s
robbie morrison No. Chiltern have been standard only since 2003. Their new 68 loco hauled sets are even standard I’m afraid. Although they are very lavish I must agree. As for the 165/1s used by GWR they have had first class removed. Some of the seats remain.
Chiltern run no First Class on any of their normal trains, only "First Class" they have is Business Zone on the 68 hauled sets. To be honest, the normal Mainline trains they run are First Class quality in themselves :p
166s still have first class seats but declassified too, around the Bristol area on GWR.
The class 458's had their first class temporarily declassified, however they have been reinstated after being put back onto the Reading to Waterloo Line from the Chertsey loop service.
The 458s are standard class throughout on every service (except the 23.42 Reading to Ascot)
I always use the first class of the thameslink every time I go on it
Also, on southern 377/4s the whole front and rear carriage is technically first class because they have the same seats and the only difference on those trains in first class is that there is a first class badge and that’s it
They actually have plug sockets
GWR unfortunately don't have anywhere near as many as before since the 2nd January upgrade which saw 95% of the Turbo services (which did have first class) replaced with all standard 387s, although there are still a couple out there.
Fun fact: the "thing" on the back of the seat that says "first class" is called an "antimacassar." The more you know!
London Overground run old declassified 1st class on lots of their newer lines, such as the Chingford line.
Geoff. For Thameslink services with the First at the back de-classified, does this apply on Thameslink services between London Kings Cross and Cambridge?
I sat in First Class all the way from Clapham Junction to Southampton the other week! No-one even bothered to check my ticket, granted it was the 01:15 service..
Another anomaly is if you’re blind and give the guard the confused blindy look. My friend sat in first class on an XC from Southampton all the way to stoke on a standard ticket! Doesn’t always work but it’s fun trying!
On my local train in Germany, even second class seats are more comfortable and all have sockets.
In France,we don't have 1st class on our commuter/suburban trains since 1999 and regional/interregional trains are getting rid of it.
You can travel first class in Grand central trains running cross country north as well.
I went on SWR first class in Kingston once. They don’t normally have those trains
Geoff the subclass of 377 that you were on is a suburban Variant if the class 377 is 5 cars in length its a suburban Variant but if its 3 or 4 cars in length its a long distance variant, but you are right that they do sometimes use the long distance 377s on the local suburban metro services but you were on a suburban 377
You can also get the 317 on the Liverpool Street to Chingford Enfield town and chesunt
Where I live trains have seats, not classes. The standard seats are a step above UK first class, too. (Bombardier double deck carriages)
Can you make a video about the class 710 Overground Trains
It's not just tables,armrests and the white things the southern trains have plug sockets so Geoff always look under the table.
I remember that trains coming down from Birmingham are declassified upon leaving Watford Junction and heading towards Euston - train guards would announce it on the PA. Definitely on the slow train but could have also been the case on Virgin. However this was before the refranchising. Is that still the case?
Interesting. Here in Germany they don't tell which trains have First Class, because most of them have and you don't get free First Class rides. Sometimes when the train is very full, the driver announces that you can go into the first class.
Usually it's nothing special, except that you have higher chances to get a seat and they are bigger. For longer rides, it might make sense. One example might be the ICE Train. You get more benefits and WiFi but with wifi there is (or was) a trick. Just sit near the first class and get the free Internet as well. Still using the train is not a good option, when you want be on time or want to get it cheap.
More trains videos plz