Why Gibson doesn't want to make Les Paul Jr and DCs
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- #knowyourgear #podcast #guitarpodcast
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You’re right about the strategy. Juniors could be churned out because they’re simple and effective guitars. If priced fairly they would be huge sellers, but that would only detract from the potential sales of their higher-end guitars.
Same with these Modern Lites now priced at $1500 for rough open-grain mahogany with no filling to the pores and cheap colored paint slapped onto it that's gonna flake off in five minutes. Lots of people would love to have a mahogany slab singlecut LP type guitar the thickness and weight of the SG. They could sell a ton of those guitars for $800-900. GC had them on blowout for $899 a few months ago and they flew out. Or, they could offer that same guitar with a nice heritage-cherry stain and nitro finish and P90s or something like Burstbuckers or whatever, for the $1500. But they're not doing either of those things. They're not going to give you the $1500 guitar without insulting you with sub-Melody-Maker build and finish.
DC Junior is by far my favorite guitar I own!
I've been wanting a Double Cut, I'm looking at okd Japanese Yamaha or Hammer
Does anybody, remember the Faded series? (Gibson used to make some player-grade stuff before 2018, but I think they decide to commit to being a blues lawyer/doctor guitar. Remember to play authentic you only need 3k lol
I had 2 of the faded guitars from the early 2000's. A flying V and a special DC. Paid $500 each brand new from Musicians Friend. I wish I still had them.
They did faded SGs too, mainly red or brown. They were inexpensive for a Gibson and had the name, pickups, fixed neck etc. without all the fancy embellishments.
@@Kommander_Rahnn I still have the V I bought all the way back then at the time it was the most expensive guitar I ever bought (I think it was $850 ish at Guitar Center). I never thought it would go up in price like it did haha I wish I had bought a DC or Melody Maker (the MM were like 400 bucks) back then.
@@paulketchupwitheverything767 I was surprised they made some variation of the SG Faded (albiet without the half moon inlay) basically up until the present. It was still a pretty good deal all these years laters
Yup, still have my special faded SG
I got my DC 2015 model for 555 new. The neck is a bit wider than usual, but I am very pleased to have it.
Just picked up a ‘19 DC Jr. faded in TV Yellow for a great price. I love the simplicity of it. Wrap around bridge, one pickup, volume, and tone. If Gibson sold those and the Specials in a gloss finish at $1,500-2,000 I think they would sell a ton of them.
I would certainly buy a Gibson USA double cut special new for $1799 if they made them. Especially in black, white, or cherry.
What is annoying is there should significantly less manufacturing costs for Jrs. No carved maple top. Significantly less routing. Less parts (2 less knobs, 1 less pickup, 2 less pickup rings). Therefore the idea of charging 2800 is ridiculous. It should be significantly less than the price of a Standard. They sold em for 1500 for a few years recently, and when I got my black Jr, and I think that was totally reasonable.
Eastman SB 55 DC is the best version I've ever tried!
Saw one at GC for 2800 used, hard pass.
@@rocketpigrecords3719 I got mine for $1100 used mint.
That's weird because they are $1399 new.@@rocketpigrecords3719
Best guitars I have owned were a 1996 Les Paul double cut special and an Edwards double cut junior.
The Gibson double cut is back for 1699 in dark walnut.
Lol never trust a UA-camr, everything is clickbait. Many of these nerds rely on alogging Gibson to make rent, their opinions are worth less than nothing.
@@rocketpigrecords3719they’re selling them direct and I’ve heard some bad stories already fwiw.
Do the headstocks fall off twice as fast on the double cutaways?
About an hour ago I started making an X by Y graph here to illustrate the Gibson models types of those models available. When I listed the types, or variations of each, the most popular was 10. That's when I realized the full page was not going to be enough room! LOL The SC and DC are available, just not in every variation. They likely looked at sales, and determined the SC was a better seller, and made that in more/different variations. Like the SG are/were? When another company copies Gibson, its 1 variation of 1 model usually. Gibson can have 10 variations of that model. All that is a lot of "different" guitars to keep track of! At some point, they have to decide what to make. With so many possibilities, they can't make everything all the time. Well, that was hard, I looked at a lot of stuff, page after page of kinds and options. I hope it made some kind of sense. Peace --gary
Charlie Starr’s signature was ridiculously priced…but they only made a few hundred. I want a simple black Jr for $999
Plus, the specials and juniors from the custom shop get close to the price of a USA Les Paul.
I think he’s right on this.
That being said, that portion of the market is shrinking rapidly.
As a for instance, the Fender/Squier brand has gotten to the point where $400-500 buys you a very good Tele or Strat. They can be played right out of the box 90% of the time and will do a great job. They can also serve as a “mod machine” which can be tweaked into a beast of a guitar for a few hundred bucks.
If you want to drop a couple of grand or more for the authentic “Fender” to treat yourself, no problem. Just keep in mind that what you’re buying isn’t necessarily the best bang for the buck.
I think they'll keep doing runs of limited colors like the Rick Beato DC models and, for example, the midnight purple Special or whatever color they come out with for certain dealers like GC, AMS, etc. That way, they keep the lines alive, don't have to make a ton of them, and keep customers happy with what winds up being a kinda rare guitar down the road. And the prices aren't crazy compared to LP Standards at all.
the gibson les paul special tribute or tribute special w/ P-90 pickups is awesome, $899 new, I think from 2019.
🤫 shhhh. Just kidding. They’re awesome!
I have a honey burst Tribute. Not the special. They were $1299 but discontinued. I own one and it’s a GREAT guitar!
I got one brand new from guitar center for $600!! One of my favorites ever!
I played a bandmate’s TV yellow DC special from around the early 2000s at an out-of-town gig and loved it. I have been GASsing for one of those ever since. The custom shop did a version a couple of years ago. I played two or three of them and could not persuade myself that they were worth the CS price. (It’s not that I’m against the CS or its prices; I’ve got a CS 336 and 335, both of which I love and both of which were well worth the money.) I would probably jump immediately at a TV yellow DC special in the regular range. But I don’t know, maybe my tastes are just weird.
Anybody remember the 2000 Gibson LP Standard Lite? I still have mine. It was sort of a prototype guitar. It has a chambered body, what they called a “492R” PU in the neck position, and an “asymmetrical slim taper” neck. Double cut body. The bridge pickup is the ‘57T.
02:37 sums it all up… they are not into low production run, low margin guitars. Understandable. Porsche doesn’t make those either nor do they have to.
Man, I just wish they would make lap steels again. I love my 52 Gibson BR-9
Phil, Gibson probably doesn't really want to make SGs because the "low" price dilutes their brand logo aspirations!
Gibson makes all their profits from Epiphone and only builds Gibson LPs to keep the logo/brand alive and aspirational to players. Epiphones are really quite good. Some players hate on them because they want the Gibson Logo ... so they are the ones who pay up.
The only think that dilutes the brand is the chinese knock offs that lie about being usa
I think demand is not high enough for the DCs and Jrs. An Epiphone version of the Jr is available, and they just released a SG model. If they sold the fire out of them, they might do a small run. However, Gibson keeps production down to preserve brand value. Similar to how clothing companies and shoe companies only do small batches of items so the items are worth more.
Exactly my thoughts.
Fender, Gibson, PRS and others - have transformed into huge woodwork businesses. Marketing depts do all to maximize sales and prices. Financial and business do all to reduce production costs everywhere. At the end of this process marketing urges that we buy cheap furniture at the skyscraping prices. Next stage is plastic furniture.
or plastic guitars!😀
The Double Cut just doesn't sell well, most people don't like them so low production Custom Shop is the only way it makes sense to them! Gibson doesn't make instruments anymore, they make Guitar Shaped Designer Possessions!
Wow
What utter unadulterated garbage!
@@johnblack9037 Is a $10-20,000 Les Paul an instrument or a Guitar Shaped Designer Possession?
They're no longer instrument. They're guitar shaped collectibles. People buy them as investments. Players don't buy them because actually using them to make music, and all that entails, reduces the perceived value.
@@S-T-E-V-EUh…you know they make ones cheaper than that, right? Because you sound like an expert.
It’s really sad that these companies are just trying to squeeze out as much money out of their customers as possible still in this day and age where most people don’t have that kind of money. If they haven’t yet, they’ll start losing customers due to their greediness. They think the brand name is all the reason to keep the prices a ball buster. Not just guitar companies, but just every company in general and it’s sad because they’ll be bankrupt most likely in our lifetime. That’s just my two cents. I’ve always wanted to own a Gibson Les Paul.
Buy and Epiphone LP about $600 and you will not be disappointed. If you have less of a budget I recommend Harley Benton but the higher end ones. $250 - $400 usually. You'll be surprised.
Same applies to Martin; they could sell their guitars for cheaper, but like you mention, that's not the game they're in
I bought a DC junior custom shop about 4 months ago. It’s an awesome guitar but to expensive.
Somebody has to make the high end versions.
I’ll take one
While making limited custom shop runs does make financial sense. It's also about maintain value through scarcity. If they made standard DC and Les Paul Juniors and sold them for 12-1300, no one would buy a custom shop plank of mahogany for 3-4K. I don't think there's a lot less demand for DC and Les Paul Juniors as some in the comments have suggested. I genuinely think they could go into Gibson's regular rotation for a few years and sell well. But again, that would inform the guitar buying market of what they're actually worth. Which as Phillip suggested, Gibson have no interest in playing that game.
I will add, I bought one of those DC junior tributes new a few years ago, and it was pretty awful. The fretboard was dry as 3 month old dog poop when I got it and had shrunk badly. Awful fret sprout and the wood used on the neck itself was awful looking. There was a real lack of care to it. I tried conditioning the fretboard for close to a year, but I just sold it as new, as I really didn't bond with it after that and I didn't want to put any work into it. I'm sure there were great ones out there like every guitar run, but mine was not one of them. I bought mine for 600ish euros on clearance and there's guys trying to sell them for 3 times that now. I'll stick to my LP standard.
My 2004 faded TV Yellow double cut special is awesome. When I saw Beato was using his as the basis for a new signature I got excited till I saw the street prices ...... ouch. No thanks. Maybe in a few years someone might let one go for a decent deal. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
This is why I miss Hamer. They made what Gibson would not.
I snagged an Eastman dc because of this issue, its awesome so not to disappointed
Leaning that way myself but not big on that varnish that will wear off ASAP.
I wonder why Epiphone doesn't make a Les Paul Standard Gold Top with P-90s or a Les Paul De Luxe with Mini Humbuckers. Or why does The Heritage not offer an SG style Guitar? I can't see a strategy. BTW there is a Harley Benton DC-60 Junior for less than 200 Bucks.
Everything resumes to profit! I think we all agree companies should and have to make a profit but to abuse in prices against customers is not good.
1) Pick a design that actually has a distinct sound/ character
2) Rumour to discontinue, while making a slew of them in odd colors, etc. claiming signature associations
3) Stop making that design entirely and eradicate matching repair components on all other platforms
4) Franchise some of the design characteristics to Chinese, but deny all, like fretboard wood access or exclusive fabricational constructions
5) Authorise Custom shop as only access to desired builds, then make quantities increasingly smaller.
6) Rebrand upscaled as (Dietrich, from Firebird origin, like Maybach for instance) to compel repurchase of favored instrument to get label to display
7) Start process all over again.
I'd like you to do a video on the Harley Benton SC 550 II. It has the new Tesla pickups and I know you have no skin in the game so your opinion would be cool. I happen to think they are, not just good, but great guitars for the money. I think the higher end HB's are just as good as your $500 - $600 Epiphones and Squires but that's MY opinion. I'm not a professional like you and you are a luthier too.
DC Special is the only Les Paul I actually like. I can’t stand the standard Les Paul body shape.
Waited and when it became available around 07, I bought a brand n ew Gibson dc jr in cherry. Opened it and in that ugly white cotton lined case was a purple smelly heavy junior. The purple covered the side dots on the neck, the finish was like 1/8 thick and played like it was covered in glue. “Can they make it cheaper” I think they did that at $2k doesn’t get much worse for the money.
Gibson headstock design is a tuning nightmare. Music Man guitars have strings in perfect straight line from saddle to tuners. No tuning issues.
I have two 2019 dc tribute specials. Got them on clearance. Killer guitars.
I have one. It’s cool.
I had one and yes they are rock and roll machines!!!
Gibson is "in the game" of charging as much as they possibly can, they don't care at all about servicing musician's needs. That is why I hate what they have become.
Have you ever seen a decently priced usa guitar? Sorry pal, its not just gibson
One word answers most questions like this “Money” theres your answer. Thats all. Nothing more nothing less. Its a business. They do what they do to make money. That is all.
Quality comes at a price.
Other manufactures make better quality for 1/3rd the price. Gibson is a " Look what I can afford and you cant" brand now.
@@damham5689 Absolutely! Spot on my man.
Don’t they currently make Jrs?
Only the Rick Beato signature and the Custom Shop.
Having worked there for 5 years I can tell you for certain that Gibson USA could sell every guitar they make for 1k and still make millions a month. On average they make 7 mil a month.
They also pay workers shit wages while CEO and top investors buy mansions and yachts.
Nonsense. They don't make enough guitars to achieve that profit.
@@ChrisShortyAllen $7mil a month divided by an average of $3.5k is only 2k. You don't think it's possible they make and sell 67 guitars a day...?
@@Msantor1605 I’d venture to guess it’s far more than that.
I’d love to have a DC standard. Binding and all.
I sold my lefty double cut jr tribute I regret it.
They also don’t want to make Hollow Body’s or Archtops anymore
They stop making studios I think
Gibson has been cutting models back for a while now. I think they cut all hollow and semi hollow except the 335.
Soon Gibson will make only the Les Paul and ask $30k for a standard.
I would simply call this having a bad character, period.
Cause they can’t command the kind of prices the OG Les Paul does
The Les Paul double cut? Meh. I'd rather just play an SG. If I'm gonna play a Les Paul, I want to play a classic single cut Standard with Humbuckers or P90s. Possibly a two pickup P90 single cut. Les Paul junior guitars are more suited to the Epiphone brand anyhow. They're supposed to be beginner guitars, historically speaking, no?
Isn't the Maestro lp made by Gibson
Premium brand? What is so "premium" about the sub-standard QC of products shipped?
Broken headstocks?
you can always tell which commenters actually own Gibson guitars and which ones don't. The ones that do own them love them, the ones that don't actually own them go on about bad QC (that I've never experienced despite owning several) and broken headstocks (that I've never experienced despite owning several)
This is like saying about Fiat "Fix it again tony". Things do invariably change over time. Perceptions take a bit longer though.
But the thing is, they don't make an Epiphone DC jr either
*Laughs in Duesenberg*
its all about stock holders making more money. gibson made guitars by hand and the they were worth paying good money for.now there made by cnc machines
how does that make them so much more expencive and quality has droped sence sence the norlan days.an epi is as good as any gibson now.
I guess if you want a DC with P90’s you can buy a Gibson SG Special 🤷♂️
Yea but single pickup guitars resonate more. At least so they say.
There isn't enough profit for them period.
Gibsons are cheaper now then the 1950s in real terms . All guitars are.
Greed?
they are furiously trying to position their brand as an aspirational logo. That's what the big price is for, the logo. Clip that top 1/3rd of the headstock off and no one cares about the rest of the instrument.
Unfortunately, Gibson has become a brand primarily reserved for collectors and resellers. A true player wouldn't buy one as there are so many better value-for-money options elsewhere, like Schecter if you want a Les Paul shape
Oh yeah? I own 5 custom shop Gibsons and they all get used and gigged regularly. I bought them to play and not hang on a wall.
I have a les paul standard, junior, and a 61 sg standard and they're just about the only guitars I play, so at least in my experience, you're wildly wrong.
Epiphones are not cheap Gibsons they are cheap Chinese made Epiphones owned by Gibson. The Gibson custom shop supposedly collaboration with Epiphone is an expensive joke, they didn't have the decency to use the bell truss rod cover. I'm through buying Gibson guitars.
Greed
F Gibson. They dont have much to offer.