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reacting to your unpopular pretty little liars opinions from reddit! 🧡
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2022
- todays video is me reacting to the pretty little liars unpopular opinions you left for me on reddit!😊
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🧡 @laurendaisy27
lauren x
#prettylittleliars #PLL
the drunk moms being locked in the basement was my favorite moment
Ezra being A I think could’ve been a very interesting concept. What if his motivation was he was a passionate writer who was running out of ideas but then he met Ali and realized there was a story so he became A so he could create an interesting story based on the events playing out like he was writing the PLL books
Imagine Ezra being A, manipulating Aria into joining him and then have her play double agent to take him down and have him rightfully sent to jail or something
I totally can see it since the way he knew both Alison and aria was so convenient but the issue is he had no motive to harass the girls through text and blackmail the way mona did
I feel like emily and Ali should of never happened! They was so toxic for each other! I don't think it's reliastic after emily said how much she hurt her in the past x
Also A would of never let Aria get away with her cheating on Ezra with his younger brother! Aria was in the wrong for that!
yeah but Ali really liked Emily you could tell she loved her, i think it was the idea of liking a girl is why Ali acted the way she did.
They were toxic when they were young but not when they were adults
@@laurenkeen8687 i think this is one of the reasons why the Aria is A theory makes so much sense. yes she got her fair share of bs but nowhere near as much as the other girls. she constantly got away with fairly big stuff like cheating on Ezra even though A would have been ON that immediately
Aria was the MOST selfish and delusional liar. She was my fave during the original airing but now as an adult rewatching the series she was almost unbearable. Most entitled for someone who suffered the least. And her parents should’ve been charged for allowing an adult to groom their child. There’s no excuse for not taking action against Ezra. He knew how old Aria was when he first met her and when he was involved with Ally she was around 14 smh. At that point it’s a pattern so it’s safe to say he’s a PE*O. It pisses me off on rewatch that the writers didn’t write their story differently
100% agreed. Couldn’t have said it better myself
Aria is selfish and delusional yet you didn’t state one reason why she was girl bye y’all love to pick and choose who to hate as if what hanna did to Sean in season 1 wasn’t worser than anything aria has ever done!!
@@Kippenn.1girl bye? 😂 this is fiction it’s never that serious
but your the one lying on a fictional character make it make sense??@@ChasityR17
may have suffered the least when it came to A but outside of A the same cant be said an thats on that!
this isn't necessarily an unpopular opinion but the *biggest* reason the show went downhill was because the writers were too worried about the fans. partially regarding ships and partially regarding the mystery since they were so afraid of people figuring it out so they wrote all these crazy red herrings and then made the reveals themselves equally as crazy.
absolutely! I am 10000% convinved they had other plans for A, too but changed things around because some fans had suspicions. they were more worried about shocking fans than creating a well-crafted mystery
Watching the show as an adult, Aria was overall the most selfish in the friend group. She only ever cared about herself and Ezra, while Hannah and Spencer were literally willing to go to jail to save the others. I can see why she gets a lot of hate
This is also why it fully would make sense if aria had been A
yes! and in flashbacks you can really telll she was closest in character to Alison when she reigned her rule of terror. Aria willingly participated in bullying, destruction of property, manipulation etc. as long as it suited her. she is nowhere near as innocent as some people make her out to be
and remember the time the girls thought about who the best liar was and all pointed to Aria? kinda telling
PLL could have been the perfect series if they did it all in 4 seasons (not THE actual 4th season of the show, but in general) and if A was a character on the first episode, even after Mona.
I completely agree!!
Ezra deserved jail… period
Yes!
yeah. i wish they made a scene where he gets caught for dating aria
all the grown men on this show should've gone to Jail
@@terissa96 !!!! Yes lol
The shift to Spencer being the main character and still Aria gets the big wedding is odd to me.
I say this as a Spencer Hastings Enthusiast, 90% of my love for her character comes from how good of an actress Troian is
i feel like the writing suffered in many ways from the fact that the writers clearly didn't want to break up any of the 'ships' and upset people, rather than what would serve the storylines best. i really loved the Ezra as A subplot and think they should really have stuck with and ran with that rather than totally backtracking on it. plus it just seems unrealistic to stay with the same people for so long; especially after a time jump!
If Paige hadn’t tried to drown Emily she would be fine. Not great but fine
It would be so cool if cece was still Allie’s sister, but her mum cheated on her dad and got pregnant with cece. Allie’s dad finds out when cece is a couple years old and being so distraught about Jason, unable to accept two children not his own, sends cece away to an orphanage. When she’s older, cece gets jealous of Jason and Allie for having the happy family she never received and goes out for revenge
Way better plot!!
yeah also the thing that confused me is that when cece was A why was it only Ali and the other girls only tortured by her why was Jason or their dad not because he was the one that wanted Cece in Radley and then Jessica had to lie to him that Cece was actually dead
I think it’s funny when people bring up how betrayed Ali must’ve been by her family member trying to harm her and forget that 2 of the A’s were related to Spencer as well. That fact gets overlooked in my opinion
That's why I'm always like if Cece was A why wasn't also Jason and Ali's dad targeted as well it kinda made no sense because Ali's dad was the reason she got sent to Radley in the first place and I know that Jason was a kid but he also kinda forgot that he had a sibling and believed that Cece - originally Charles or "Charlie" was just his imaginary friend. I guess I kinda understand for why Alex was only going for Spencer rather than her parents as well because she was the one who got a chance at a better opportunities to live and her parents didn't know she had a twin and even then they were still targeted in some way or form. Also I do remember there was one point where Jason was targeted which was in the elevator with Emily and it collapsed but to me it just didn't make sense after Mona was A why all 5 friends were targeted by A but also at the same time I guess it kinda hides who the possible identity of A is
I would've been okay with Ezra not going to jail if they worked in him being A (but if they did that A would've found a way to get out) but since that didn't happen they should've stuck with the original material and had him get arrested. I feel like Aria's storylines would've opened up a bit because her entire character revolves around her relationship with him.
Wren and Melissa would have been a good duo to take over for A. It would have connected red coat and having a team, something that makes it more probable for some of the plot holes that needed people being in more than one spot.
Also, didn't Melissa being pretty much written off happen because the actress got a lead role in one of those Chicago shows, Med. or something?
Yeah i remember watching one of those and when I saw her I screamed MELISSA lol 😂
I loved this PLEASE consider doing another one of these videos!! It feels like I’m sitting with my girlies discussing the show
I'm so glad you like it that's exactly the vibe I wanted! 😊
i think they could have made Alex Drake work if they had gone about it way way differently. have it set up a season or two in advance, have little scenes here and there that show Spencer (but really, it's Alex) act slightly out of character. Make us question Spencer, maybe make the girls more and more distrustful of her and cast her out of the group etc. the impact of it could have been quite big but it ultimately just felt cheap.
I have a theory that when Mona said the liars took Hanna from her, that her and Hanna were best friends before she became part of the liars group. I think when Alison stole Hanna away from Mona, that was the spark that started her down the 'A' path.
I think the show did Mona dirty too because after she got help, she saved the liars asses so many times, yet they never gave her the time of day after. All she wanted was to become their friends, but they all shot her down over and over.
yeah that's what I was kinda thinking like before high school or something they used to be friends and I totally agree I actually really grew to respect Mona yet the Liars would always use her and actually never fully appreciated any of her help and if it wasn't for her they'd probably never had even made it out that dollhouse.
@@madisonbusby1457it was Alison who saved them from the dollhouse not Mona. Mona was the reason they were there in the first place 😂😂😂
totally agree with the one about pam!! i'm so happy they didn't just automatically make her accepting, because that is such a sad reality for so many people like you said, but i'm also happy they showed that growing to become accepting is completely possible! her and em's relationship by the end of the show is one of my favorites
hating on characters in season 1 and 2 is a bit harsh, especially the liars because they are going through so much and they’re just 15-16 and it’s so easy to look at their faults and pick them out bc it’s a show but i don’t think i would’ve been able to cope as well as any of the liars did 😭
Personally I think that when Emily found out that Ali was alive those old feelings she had towards Ali came back and clouded her judgement which is which she became so toxic and prioritised Ali over everyone else despite how much Ali hurt her in the past. I think it was worst for her to then become reattached to Ali because she got her hopes up and even though Ali said she changed she was still kind of the same person who would keep secrets and try to be independent even though it just made situations worse for her and could have just asked for help from the girls except allowing it to strain her relationship with the girls especially Emily
it's been a while since i watched the show and idk if i'd feel differently now but back in the day i was a big paily shipper and i liked paige a lot. was she a bully? yes. did she try to kill emily? sure. but as a teenage lesbian reading and watching all kinds of media where the straight love interest was always a toxic bad boy, i feel like paige was that for me lol. for others it was allison pre-return. it hasn't aged well of course but it's what it is. same with aria and ezra.
Lucas would have been the worst option. Like you said, he was so jealous and mean when Hanna liked anyone or hung out with anyone when in reality, she didn't owe him anything for his feelings. It is his problem that he romantically liked her, she only saw him as a friend
My unpopular opinion: I didn't ship ANY of Emily's relationships. I felt like the writers didn't know how to write wlw relationships. It seemed like they never put any effort into them and they just threw little breadcrumbs in there to fulfill their diversity quota and get representation points.
Maya was the best of them, but their relationship wasn't fully fleshed out and there were still issues. She pressured Emily into smoking with her, didn't really make an effort to keep in touch while she was away, and was rude to Emily's mom after she finally came around, knowing how important Pam's acceptance was to Emily. They were cute, but for as little as we saw of them they didn't have the best relationship.
Paige literally bullied Emily for being gay and then tried to drown her. And she forced a kiss on her. That would be enough for them to be toxic asf, but she also never got along with Emily's friends and was just overall unlikable. I also absolutely hate the trope of a closeted gay person bullying another gay person and then ending up together. It's never been cute. You don't have to be homophobic just so you can stay in the closet.
With both Samara and Talia, their stories ended too quickly and they were never that serious. Both of them had potential to be good partners, but I guess the writers didn't wanna let Emily be happy and only knew how to write toxic relationships.
Alison might have been the most toxic. She weaponized her sexuality against her. She was literally playing with Emily's emotions to see how far she could push her. Alison never loved Emily, she loved that Emily loved her. Then when she comes back, we're supposed to believe that she really loved her this whole time? She still only "loved" her because Emily was taking care of her, and was still manipulating her into being close to her by playing the victim card.
agreed! plus Emily never really had anywhere close to the same kind of relationship like the other liars.
the writers for sure didn't know how to write these relationships and reverted to toxic stereotypes
1) Writers shouldn't have thought thwy could outsmart the audience and follow the PLAN.
2) I think Emily and Jenna would be a good couple (i know, don't judge me).
3) It's unreal for 4 liars to end up with their first love interests.
4) Not an opinion but a question: I still don't get why Elison chose Aria to be her friend and included her to the group. It's clear about other liars but not her. And we haven't forgotten bout Aria's photos Ali'd taken.
5) It's too much of a family drama. The 1,2 seasons didn;t have such a deep stories like family tree and parent cheating, it was just sms, dreses and parties.
6) Anothr question: WHEN DID A TAKE SO MUCH MONEY?
7) I find the liars carrers unrealistic. Like, they're 22 or 23, how did take high positions and have REALLY good jobs at such young age? And didn't anyone recognise them? I think they could make only 1 or 2 liars successful.
8) I liked Mona and Caleb together (haleb forever but it eas interesting)
9) Ezra turned out to be A and really rich made no sense.
10) Popular opinion: I love your channel. I found it 2 days ago and subcribed because your videos are interesting so is PLL
omg please explain why you think emily and jenna would be good together!! i've never heard that opinion before and i'd love to hear why!!
@@ry-ig6tv there's no any theiries or reasons, I'm just a shipper so I ship everything weird. And also people wouldn't expect it so why not?
i rememered it the season 2 Halloween episode Ali asked if Emily liked the new girl Jenna. Since Jenna was as cool as Ali, I suppose, Emily would like Jenna too.
And they're just pretty together, Em was never a b!tch to Jenna and vice versa.
No because in that Halloween episode when em was watching Jenna dance im like oooo👀👀
as a trans person i don’t think the story was just mishandled i think it was transphobic. no hate to anyone who disagrees but i was so sad that was the twist when i was younger. and i’m almost positive she was only A because aria couldn’t be. i think it’s kinda gross and her being trans adds nothing to the story except bad rep for trans people.
like it is not only awful trans representation but having the only trans character being a villain is similar to how they have the only black characters painted in a bad light. it might’ve not been intentional and i still watch the show it is just very sad it’s so racist and transphobic
@@user-ji9if5gh2pdon’t forget how they treat the other lgbtq characters, the ones that don’t die are main characters so instead of that they get tortured
@@Isthatthegrimreaper170 i also think it's interesting that Emily in the books was actually bisexual and dated both girls and boys but they completely did away with that, too. overall, there was sooo much mishandling when it comes to lgbt rep
@@IlkaWaffy they made Jenna bi and had all her partners/exes die, I think that was super fucked up
That girl just could not catch a break
"A" wasn't the main antagonist of season 1 and was actually more of an anti-hero
i love the intro with john cenas voice !😭 unfortunately we couldn’t see no one
Haha thank you!!
@@laurendaisy27 can’t wait for that gossip girl video i just found your channel recently & im obsessed for a fact
Pam's storyline was their way of keeping in some of the book. A lot of season 1 was influenced by the book but the way it turned out was based on fans reactions (i.e., Ezra staying with Aria instead of being sent to jail) but based on the time the book was written, it was very realistic that a lot of people who came out to their parents were sent to camps to "be fixed" so Pam's behavior was a toned down version of the book
a great reference for aria being A is the grazing hell podcast episode with shanspere i wasn’t in to the theory before it. idk if she should’ve been A but she definitely was supposed to be with the way she was written
I very much enjoyed the cece reveal until i realized how PLOT HOLES there were
hanna had it the worst, then spencer, then emily, then aria but they all had it bad
I think Alex Drake would have worked better if it had never been Spencer that returned to Rosewood. If Alex had kidnapped Spencer before she got back to Rosewood. So from the time jump on it would have been Alex pretending to be Spencer.
I think the Dollhouse was badly done. All the effort that Cece had to put into making that and it is done in two episodes? That should have been longer.
Alison was portrayed as a sociopath until they go to her in New York. They should have kept that up. Alison was this larger than life monster to so many people, but then she gets back and she is suddenly so weak.
I think Alison did worse things to Emily than Paige did. And Lindsey Shaw did not deserve the harassment she received.
Ezra should have been arrested. The show’s need to push the line that 20+ year old men going after 14-16 year old girls is ok is very problematic. Spencer would have been 14/15 when Ian was hitting on her. And everyone blamed Spencer but not Ian.
I think they didn’t explain very well that Cece was crazy because she was raised in isolation in Radley, and not because she was trans. Radley was not set up for children.
I think Veronica and Ashley are the best moms. As someone that had a bad coming out with my mom as a queer teen, my relationship with my mom never recovered, I could never fully trust her again.
I don’t like Aria. She cheated on every love interest I can think of. It’s hard to root for someone like that.
All the parents suck for not making the girls get intensive PTSD therapy.
You're the only person I've seen to say the dollhouse kinda suck and I agreed. There wasnt much there and I dont really know why it was so "iconic" when it was just something the girls went through. There should have been more and had their trauma more explained.
I think Spencer should've been bisexual
agree
lowkey
Emily is in the source material
but i also get big bi vibes from Spencer. i would have liked for her to have a relationship that truly showed her not to rely on pleasing (older) men, to fully acknowledge she was groomed. but then again if they had done that they would have also had to acknowledge Ezria being straight up illegal
loved the video and your mug is so cute!!
i think ezra being AD could have been really interesting and it would have evened up the aria getting it so easy but i will die on the hill that they were going to make aria a hill
The seeds were planted throughout most of the series that Arya was supposed to be the final A. King just got ticked that people figured it out and came up with the ridiculous evil twin story. I mean, genetically, twins that run in a family usually skip a generation. Why would Mary who was a twin have twins?
can't wait for the second long gossip girl video
19:37
I looked into the Aria being A theory and I never once believed it. Every point people made never made any actual sense from an overall standpoint for me personally. So I agree with you there
Exactly
For me, it was one of those things that was a fun fringe theory/alternate universe, but the more popular it became for everyone to insist that they were DEFINITELY going to do it (and later that they changed it because too many people guessed) just… left it not that interesting anymore. I can think of a much simpler explanation for like… every “Aria is ‘A’” hint people point toward.
I think the Wren theory works if you take out the romance with him and Spencer. He could have been the twin. The Radley connection put him in a great spot o be running things.
I liked Spencer and Toby together….
48:35 what? Wasn't AD torturing the girls for Cece/Charlotte's death? Alex only kidnapped Spencer in the very last episode because she wanted to kill her off and take her place unlike Cece who became A and tortured the girls FOR Alison.
I liked Emily's relationship with Toby it was a sweet friendship they had . sometimes I did like when the liars would interact with others love interests like Spencer interacting with Caleb , or Emily with Toby and how the friendships sometimes were as nice and sweet as the relationships
ella is the best mum
Ashley is the best mum i think. I only liked Ella cause she disapproved of Ezra
@@youwonderwhyimbitter i don’t think she disapproved ezra enough. she should’ve reported him to the police but other than that, love ella
Maybe a hot take? I think Ashely is a very sympathetic character who clearly loves Hanna a lot, but there’s an unhealthy component where she’s willing to do ANYTHING (like bribe a police officer with sex, steal from the bank, hit Wilden with her car, etc.) if she thinks it will protect Hanna and it’s just… not always necessary. Yes, Hanna getting caught shoplifting in season one was a bad situation, but she (especially as a privileged young white woman-not saying that’s how it should be, just that it seems likely) likely would have gotten community service at most. Ashley’s protectiveness was sweet, but at times it verged on enabling and set a bad example for her daughter. Their relationship sometimes really showed the unhealthy side of an “I would do anything for you” mentality.
Which video of your was it where you mention Hannah had a dog in the books?
my most unpopular opinion is that i love the books and the show (while a culture milestone) doesnt even come close to them
unpopular opinion: spaleb worked. they had good chemistry and they seemed like kindred spirits. it was weird that them together was used just as a catalyst for hanna and caleb to get back together and just poor writing imo.
It is aria that says we’re your friends not your punching bags I’m also team aria ❤
- i dont like paige with emily but i do like paige she's definitly not my fav but she gets way too much hate
- if they had planned for cece to be A from the begining i think she would've been a much better reveal
- i forgot abt mike half the time but he was good in season 5 and i like the dynamic it created with aria when he got with mona. his arc with his parents divorce was honestly one of my favs for some reaosn. i wish he had an appearance in the time skip or at least a mention of some kind
- hanna just has more interesting plotlines than aria does but aria is definetly the main character in the beginning
- pam was such a realistic character in season 1. in 2010 it was more normal for ppl to be homophobic but at least she came around it's better than her not changing at all
- i think ella is definetly the best mom honestly
- no?
- i think the twin plotline being crammed in and explained in one episode was a bad idea. if it was revelaed to the audience sooner i think it migh/ve worked. wren 100000% should've been wren AD
- i love that they got back together
- thats the only excuse i can see for them not calling the police. that has to be such a tricky situation as a pareent bc even if they did areia probably would've run away so i think it's realistic that they didn't do anything honestly
- i think wren being A made sense bc he was SO suspicous for no reason they keep doing it and it made me mad they did the same thing with Melissa but at least she did some things
- every single relatiuonship emily was in besides Samara was so incredily awful i so wish Samara had stuck around they were really cute
- if ali wasn't treating them so badly they wouldn't have had any reason to suspect her
- jaria only works if they had gotten together post timeskip where theyre both adults
- cece wasn;t much worse than mona as an A tbh her motive actually makes more sense than mona's motive
- they all have their bad friendhsip moments but tahts what makes their friendship so realistic
- im so neutral about sara harvey honestly like she diodn't really do anythung
- spencer's my fav liar so..
- i thought they had revaled her as A in season 3 so i was so confused when it was still her in season 6
- ella and ashley are definetly some of the best mothers
- i hate that they gave ali a redemption arc and the only reason they gave her one is bc of sasha gaining weight and they didn't wanna make an overwight girl evil
- i wish aria and noel ended up together
- aria is a teeager she made mistakes like every other liar
- byron kinda sucks he's one of my least fav parentys
- i wish ezra was A so bad it's so obvious they wanted to make him A but wanted to keep him as a love interest
- i don't think that debatable honestly
- haleb is the most healthy couple but all the bad parts about haleb are kinda hanna's faut. caleb may have been a little too overprotective at times but it wasn't unwaranted
- i loved liam the scene where he says that ezra groomed her is gold but it was obvious he wasn;t gonna last
- i love pll i think the show should've ended after they graduated
- sydney was such an intersting character
- jason was barely a brother let alone a bad brother
- melissa was a bad sister but i think that comes from their parents constantly
- ali was done so dirty like why did EVERYONE have beef with a 14 year old girl
- they never should've gotten back together
- i don't think they really knew what to do with toby
- i alwasy watch 4 and 5 theyre my favs
- i think cece had the best motive for being A. mona claims that "they took hanna from her" but they didn't grow closer until A started tormengtig them they already weren't friends at the begining of season 1 she already had hanna
- alison WAS the plot of pll
- as much as i love the aria is a theory im happy with just aria just joining the a team
- SHE SHOULD'VE BEEN REVALED SOONER
There was no reason regardless to suspect ali of being A or killing Mona
That’s not the reason they gave ali a redemption arc
i agree with almost all of this!
A little late, but I feel as if Charles being transgender worked well. I don’t feel as if we were being tricked because him possibly being a woman was hinted at. Hence why he had the dress on. It was foreshadowed I think it’s great.
Ezria or Wren would have made great A reveals. Emison was toxic, Paige gets way too much hate. I get tired of the bi or trans characters being evil. I wouldn't have minded Cece, Allison, or Jenna as representation if they had balanced it out a little bit more with some good characters as representation. I love Mike and Mona, they did them so dirty. I also love Lucas and Hannah and still wish they were endgame.
agree with everything except hanna and lucas!
They were toxic when they were young but not when they were adults
i will go to BAT for hanna and haleb. season 6B-7 do not interact
paige was also written off due to the actresses substance abuse problems.
first second the mug that is a mugshot tho haha i want one now how clever
Ezra should’ve been Charles and Cece should’ve been Bethany
i read the books in middle school (there’s like 12 of them) and there was a lot of content in the books that should’ve been used but wasn’t imo
What I don’t get it why people hate Paige. She was horrendously bullied by Alison; being called Pigskin, teased about her sexuality and even being threatened that her over religious dad would find out. Alison tormented Paige to the of being s*icidal, of course she is gonna still be resentful towards her. If someone hurt me to get to that point, I would as well. Everyone brings up Paige “drowning” Emily - which is wrong, I’m not justifying that, but the fandom forgets all the stuff Alison put Emily (and the girls) through. I think fans only hate Paige because they wanted Emison as end game, it’s quite biased tbh
I can't stand Paige but I didn't want Emily to end up with Ali either because I wanted the writers to keep Ali toxic.
I think people hate Paige because she was constantly getting in Alison’s business. She literally ordered Emily not to have contact with Alison anymore then intentionally put her in danger by telling Holbrooke she was alive. Let’s get into season 7 when she insecure that Emily and Alison were whispering in the hallway
alison and paige both suck as love interests lmao no bias there
@@wowjennawow true.
Aria ate that show up and idc what anyone says!!
I think Paige as a character was so irrelevant and was representing nothing major on the show
Hate hate hate PAIGE like ive never liked paige from the second she came on screen
SPENCER IS AN ICON
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My unpopular opinion:Caleb was with Alex & not Spencer!
My unpopular opinion is : lucy hale is a bad actress in this show. I might be nitpicky but she had these ticks that I cant ignore every time I saw them
i do not believe there is a problem having minorities being antagonists/villains, not even tying their motivations to their identities. diversity is portraying marginalized people in all sort of ways just like straight/cis/white/neurotypical/able-bodied/men are, simply because is nature. cece was very clearly the show's twist on the alison/courtney storyline and inspired by ‘psycho’ from hitchcock, the go to transgender murderer text book even though being pointy explained in the film itself that norman bates is neuroatypical and not a transgender. i remember enjoying the reveal quite a lot at the time since that was most likely the first non-cisgender character i had ever seen on television, cannot grasp exactly how the full storyline plays out as it has been a good while i’ve watched the show but it is understandable why people side-eye this portrayal. the transgender twist is played out, and offensive, torture porn, not even employing a transgender actress in a show already stacked with cisgenders and very obviously treating the character with way less respect than the previous -a who happened to be a cisgender character was, which have nothing to do with maintaining cece a villain. all of that could have been very easily fixed with more thought being put into it, hiring a trans writer would have certainly benefit the show as well as hiring a trans actress. i do still look back fondly having said all that, it was a very complex portrayal even if flawed and dated.