For years super cars were faster then the average sports cars now there are so many cars that are not even sports cars that are just as fast and e/v cars Then the fact that some of these cars are 300 thousand dollars 💸 and it’s not speed now but exclusivity and drivability 😊
For me as a 17 year old affordability hasn't been a problem since ever since I can remember I've thought i would never afford one. For me the thing is they're not special anymore. And i think this is due to a variety of factors. 1.) Ive got older. Simple reality of life a kid will get more exited at things usually. I doubt this is the whole thing though. 2.) Supercars are no longer a special thing to see anymore. They've been trivialised by videogames and social media for me. If im constantly seeing new supercars in the news and all over social media on top of owning and being able to drive near on 100s in videogames. This kinda normalises them id assume. Wheras back in the day when i was a child supercars were much more special to me because the only chance i would get to see them is on top gear. I would be wowed because i didn't know they existed. Seeing one in real life would be a shocking moment I would remember instead of nowadays when its just "ooo a Ferrari" and then i move on. In terms of videogames i didn't play as many of them and I couldn't even unlock them in a lot of cases so they felt rarer and more unattainable which added to the cool factor. 3.) The cars themselves simply aren't special anymore. It feels like everyone and their mum is making supercars or high tier sports cars. Power numbers are gradually becoming more inflated for seemingly no reason which just feels stupid and pointless (especially in the ev market). Fast cars have been trivialised and no longer special nowadays since they're all fast. Also i feel like the whole industry has fallen into what i would call the McLaren problem. McLaren have a habit of releasing about 900 special editions of the 720s each year. When you make so many things and claim they are "special" nothing is special anymore. And i feel like this mentality has hit me across the whole market nowadays. There's so many "special" cars being released none feel special anymore. Ive been more exited about a GR Corrola than any recent supercar I can think of. The Mustang GTD is probably the most exiting new supercar because it feels special and different in a world where everything feels the same. Anyway thats my way too long essay on my mentality around supercars
@@swheelman7231 I don't care about performance personally tbh. One of my attainable dream cars is a cappuccino and that thing is dead slow. Might own a bike at some point but I don't see myself getting one any time soon
@@akilh340 yep. Aventador and 720s are the worst offenders. The 911 is also mildly getting it as well. Edit: forgot about the dodge challenger. A car which has like 4 special edition demons which is already a special edition in the first place.
For most people these are dream cars. A person can have just as much fun in older, more affordable sports and sports sedan cars lik the Alfa Romeo 156, Saab 93 Aero, BMW M3, MGTF etc
Not the same but still a problem, obtaining a fast/dream car is also getting harder and harder. For example when the C63 launched I was 20 years old and thought "if I work hard I can one day own this". I could buy one today, but actually own one is much harder with todays fuel prices (2,20 in euro for a liter!) together with road taxes and road speeds going down, increased traffic and speed bumps its just not fun to drive a car you care about anymore.
There’s a lot of great roads out there you just need to leave the built up areas behind :) Fuel price is actually quite cheap when you account for inflation
A supercar is a magnetite grey 2022 Subaru WRX with type R rear wing & an STI & D-spec body kit. It’s parked downstairs in the basement car park. In 6 & 1/2 hours I’ll push that starter button & my supercar will roar into life & take me home then sit in my garage until I go back to work tomorrow. 👍
I think at the end of the day it's all names and titles, some claim a first gen r8 is not a supercar, others claim that a first gen nsx is a supercar.. i mean it feels like it's all very subjective, supercar looks, supercar performance, supercar presence etc.. so many variables which mean different things for different peoples
I’m old enough to remember when the Countach, 512 BB, and 930 were the three masters of the car universe. Countach was frighteningly expensive at $105K, the Boxer was unavailable in the US, and the 911 Turbo was the race car for the road. Today, I think the “supercar” designation is pointless. There are many sub-4-second 0-60 cars, some of which carry groceries. All recent McLarens, Lotuses, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and even the Corvette C8 look similar - at first glance the C8 and LaFerrari share a basic shape and configuration. A Tesla Plaid is quicker, and a GT3 RS is the master of the Nurburgring - neither falls into your “supercar” definition. Maybe call them “boutique” cars due to rarity. There aren’t many, so performance stats aren’t all that relevant: Koenigsegg, et al.
Perhaps it's the term 'supercar' that's dead. There are just so may capable cars now and it's simply down to how much feedback a driver gets - all about feeling, rather than the figures.
I’ve always struggled to put my finger on what makes a great car for me but in recent years it has become crystal clear. The sound. People tend to dismiss it as an afterthought “oh yeah sounds nice but it’s slow” but the sound is what creates soul in a car, as well as the feeling of being connected to it. For this reason I’d choose my 2011 Boxster S which cost me less than a new golf over any new supercar available right now. It’s about as fast as an average hot hatch these days but delivers so much drama and excitement even below the speed limit. A Mazda MX5 might be even better within the speed limits but the flat 6 engine feels so much more characterful than any inline 4 could
Agree, but I’d add the immediacy of being in a cockpit rather than sitting in a cabin. Your Boxster does this well. That said, a Carrera GT is more exclusive, so closer to the “supercar” concept… although there are so many “supercar” now it’s kind of played out. Pagani, Koenigsegg, Prodrive, Lotus, Maserati, Ferrari, McLaren, Aston Martin Valkyrie, etc.
The Boxster is a perfect example of a great sports car except for the 4 cylinder cars. Losing the flat 6 howl takes so much away from the experience. I miss my old 986 Boxster S every time the sun shines and sometimes when it doesn’t.
My 1972 lotus Europa special with 130hp feels like a super car. Ok a very old one. But I feel like I’m back in the 70,s driving down our A &B roads between 30 - 70 mph.
The cost of entry and ownership is a big part of the demise. They used to be a dream for everyone who was interested in cars, for me it was the Countach. My parents drove me about 40 miles away to see one that was given away by Alpine stereo in the 80s. At the time it was an 80k new car. I could wrap my head around that number and dream about buying one. To buy that same car today would cost 750k? I just can’t imagine a life where that is obtainable. I’ve seen conflicting reports on the driving experience of Countach’s, but I’m positive the buy in and upkeep would never be worth it to me, when I’m positive there are infinitely better vehicles for a fraction of the cost. The posters and dreams of a child’s mind were legendary though.
Back when I was young (well, 20 years old back in 2013), I always thought "If I work hard in the college and found work in aerospace engineering and earn good money, maybe one day I can have a second-hand 911 GT3 or SLS". Nowadays both cars have been priced out of contention and all I dream of is having a normal life and... I don't know, a GBP1000 Honda Civic?
Im learning as I progress throughout this automotive journey that performance stats mean very little for a true enthusiast. I personally have found that a specific power/weight ratio is more important for me. My 1996 Viper is still by far the most engaging driving experience that I can find in that realm, manual, analog etc. I love my F355 but it is almost too easy to drive and lacks involvement compared to Viper. These things are all relative as well. The feeling you get in Viper is just legendary and I think it boils down to a few things. The car weighs near 3000 lbs and has an 8.0L engine with 500 ft. Lbs of torque. It has a stiff, tube frame chassis, and as importantly the Viper has an amazing hydraulic steering rack that is very precise. This gives the driver a high level of body control at all times and at all speeds. This ability to give the driver that ability and feeling of controlling the car in every way from the sharp steering to the super sharp throttle response. This overall response from chassis, engine and suspension are where the really special cars rise to the top. Few cars can match all of those areas in response, weight etc. like the Gen 2 Viper. Every true car enthusiast should own an early Viper that is properly sorted. Nothing like them if an unforgettable driving experience is what you are looking for.
The trouble is that regular petrol cars have caught up with the performance of supercars, let alone EVs. Add in noise regs making modern supercars sound bland and ever more stringent speed restrictions and I think that sadly you are right, the day of the super car has passed. The most enjoyable performance cars I think are older cars, I had a 997.1 and it was perfect for today’s roads. You really don’t need more performance than that and you can actually push it on the road unlike, say a McLaren 720s. Beyond that you need to turn to trackdays for fun, that’s what I did and don’t regret it. But Anthony is spot on about motivation, a stack of car mags and encyclopaedic knowledge of 0-60 times kept me going through medical school😁
INTIMIDATING: this is what supercars have to be. Maybe for the speed, power, price or difficulty to drive it. They can't allow the driver to feel 100% comfortable with it like a cheap and practical car would do
We've definitely passed the golden age of the supercar. There seems to be a push for more and more horsepower and speed, which is kind of pointless when the roads aren't getting any wider and 1000cc bikes exist.
The F type with 550hp is a supercar....amazing looks, great drive, huge sound, ... And it is "the" definitiion of theatre....just that is supercar defining.
Great video, thank you chaps. I’m 100% with you on this. When you consider what is available for 100k it makes the current crop of super cars a step that is hard to justify. I personally put my money into a 2015 Vanquish. Not a supercar but a car that feels and sounds really special. If I didn’t need a small amount of practicality then I’d be looking at 430’s, F12’s etc
Realistically I could maybe reach a 430 - just about, but honestly I think if I don't do it soon I won't ever get there, settling for my Alfa Quadrifoglio instead, which is hardly a bad place to settle I guess. I lived out of bins from round the back of supermarkets when I was 16, and stealing milk.......I've worked hard.
What I bemoan is the fact that you can’t even really get anything special for a reasonable price any more. Even if you weren’t rich you could quite easily pick up something like a Lotus Elise and run it on peanuts. Can you say the same for an Emira? As you say the £200k supercar bracket is a pretty empty one these days, nobody wants to make a 6 figure supercar any more.
Bad roads, the closest raceway is a daytrip away, the cost of fuel increases almost daily and you are unable to pick up your friends. Also some of the supercars won't have enough space to go grocery shopping. Driving an '21 Audi Q2 I can surely say I'm happy to trade the F1 performance for every day practicality. It's not like one is able to utilize 650hp rear wheel drive on intercity driving.
I'm sitting here listening to your conversation and the fun factor is a very big thing for me ! I am not in any kind of position to buy a supercar of any kind , but i absolutely hate the fact that almost nobody is still doing proper 3 pedal manual cars and for me it is a very important part of the fun of driving ! Of all the cars i have had in my life , the one i missed the most is my old 1974 MINI 1275 GTS (granted it was very very modified) It was bloody noisy , it was not a smooth ride , it was very comfortable for the driver , but it was superbly quick and incredibly tactile . You could feel the road surface through all the controls and your rear end !
It's a combination of things, I think. The McLaren Artura is not being talked about because it was just too late to the game. The Ferrari 296 is just impossible to get because it was sold out for the entire production run, so a person in that position to buy one is not going to be talking about it if he can't attain it. It's hard to get excited for something you can't have. Lamborghini's platforms go for too long, 10 years, it's been yesterday's news no matter how many iterations they come out with. The McLaren 750S is just an updated 720S. So we are sort of in a Supercar funk right now.
Nice video guys! I think the main issue is we still compare petrol cars to electric with the same stats. Yes, we know most of these electric cars have 1000hp but if you use all that power (in a blast down the autobahn) your range drops ridiculously. We need a new way to compare cars. Hopefully the biofuels will be here soon, and save the ICE.
It will move to electric cars and some people with a lot of money will still buy all of them no problem. The people that don't like EV's will just keep buying old supercars instead. They will probably go up in value a lot.
I drive a powerful electric car (no, not a Tesla). I've just bought a larger garage so I can add a fun car. It will probably be an old MX-5 since investors have made every old air cooled beater with a Porsche badge an "investment."
Is it possible that an average car is less desirable due to overall costs? I have only had my driving license for less than a year and I am honestly thinking of hanging it up after my my first year of driving. Too expensive.
Is The Supercar Dead? I hope so - then their values will drop, and real enthusiasts, rather than entitled investors, will be able to afford, drive enjoy and care for them. As for this one, the interest in Super Cars and performance has gone, preferring to waft along in pure luxury and comfort, enjoying the car, while others break the speed limit and defy the Laws of Physics.
I don't know, that Maserati is incredible. listen that engine note and the speed of the gearshifts with the backfire in-between gear changes. I love that sound
If you buy a car for the driving experience then it should be no need to pay 200k. If the manufacturers wanted, i am sure they could come up with something a lot cheaper. A miata sized Ferrari with a fast reving V6 or small V8 would be a lot cheaper. But, ppl like to swing their dicks and the fanufacturers know it.
Interesting vid thanks for sharing. One thought for me is the badge, that’s why brands like Toyota differentiated with Lexus. The R8 has the credentials of a super car but perhaps parked in any European car park with many Audi badges on display somehow dilutes it, but hey, Armani jeans and Levi’s are still jeans…..
What the supercar world needs is something like a 65-75% T.50 that only costs a couple hundred thousand dollars, and that can be produced in decent numbers from a major manufacturer.
Nice to listen to this chat. And I can't think of a single thing I disagree with, which for a specialist in disagreement like myself is rather surprising. As they say back in the Antipodes where I grew up; you're not wrong.
The Supercars conversation. I've always felt the TVR Tuscan is a Supercar. Blistering performance. Amazing looks. Mid mounted engine behind front wheels. Designed only for the drivers driving experience. And the Tuscan R 215 mph. Ticks all the boxes for me. Sound. Rarity. Speed. Looks.
The added benefit of a motorcycle is that they deliver super car performance for a 10th or more of of the price. The aspect of theatre is nice but necessary.
Your definition of Supercar rules out front engined V12 Ferrari's (not rear mid mounted). I have one (a 2013 FF), I can assure you it's super. It sounds awesome. In fact right out of the factory is was louder and more tunefull than the F12. Agree with you on prices, now daft. But in a world where M3 or M5 Tourings are £100k to £150k's then Supercars have to be appropriately higher. I'm now in a car that I can't possibly replace. Nothing on sale interests me more than the FF. There are faster cars, more comfortable cars and easier cars to live with but none of them are a V12 Ferrari. I can't use the performance I have now, what can I do with more? Jeremy Clarksons review of an F12 on old Top Gear sums it up perfectly. Of course you can enjoy it in the UK, you just can't enjoy all of it. I've owned mine a little over a year now and drove it 11,000 last year. I bought it to use. I'm an oddball and understand that if I ever came to sell it it would be worthless as it's actually been driven. So I guess I'm just going to have to keep it. It's an event every time I get behind the wheel.
I kind of feel that high End sports cars like AMG gt63s or M8 competition now are so dam quick, sub 3 secs 0-60 with all the luxuries in the interiors and proper boot space etc that a super car these days just seems pointless. 200 grand extra for 0.3 secs quicker to 60 with just 2 seats. I just can’t justify spending that much on a Lamborghini when I can buy a second M8 competition for a fifth of the price which is only a tiny bit slower.
This comment hits the nail on the head.....Everything is fast today !! If only judged on speed , many categories of performance cars can claim Supercar level's of performance , ie : Sportscar ~ 992 turbo s , Super saloon ~ M5 Comp , Super SUV ~ DBX 707 , GT ~ 812 Superfast , Classic ~ tuned 300bhp+ 20VT { Straight line of course }.....If we're talking theatre and drama , nothing will match a Supercar........So for me , the Supercar wont die.
It makes me cry... had an r32gtr as an import back in 2004, it cost £4500 to import and road register in the uk.. Sold it a few years later for about 8k. move on 15 years and they are more money and less performance than a gr yaris
Definition of a Super car (all "for the time"): 1. top 5% performance figures (meaning the engine has to be in the "stupid" category of power output). 2. Only affordable by people in the top 5% pay range (for the UK at least). 3. Produced in low volumes. 4. Makes extensive use of exotic materials. 5. Uses cutting edge technology (for the chassis, transmission or engine), meaning the engine is either a) unique to that car or b) derived from one already in another supercar. 6. It's got to make normal people turn heads to look at it. For me 3 is the reason the R8 (of any guise) will never be a true super car, despite the fact that I remember when it came out and personally I lusted after it. But that was based on it's looks alone before I understood actually how vanilla it was. Similarly 5 is why the Emira isn't a supercar (apart from how it looks there really is nothing special about it - that's not to say it isn't a great sports car). Basically a supercar needs to have taken at least one major aspect of it's engineering "to the extreme" in order to classify in my view. It needs to be expensive, very fast in a straight line and handle at least very well and haves something about it's engeering that makes you go "wow". Plus it goes without saying that it need to look special enough to catch peoples attention just standing still. (of course much will depend on where you live, if you see Lambo's or Ferrari's every day/week in your area you'll not give them a second glance after a while). Also, sorry but i'm going to have to disagree on the sound thing. Whilst I love a good exhaust sound, it's just not a criteria to being a supercar in my mind. The Rimac Nevera is 100% a supercar.
Sound is so important for a Supercar. I am not saying my Elise is a one in the least. However, it does look like one and the sound out of the Larini Stage II exhaust emulates one. After a triple digit play with an AMG GT on the way to Cars and Coffee they came over to compliment my exhaust note. And on the 'Fun Factor' it is an "11". It is why EVs will always be antiseptic.
Sadly the environment to own and enjoy Supercars is fading. Sticker law enforcement with new advances speed cameras appearing almost everywhere, much higher purchase prices and higher finance costs. Not to mention that they newest Supercars are just too fast for the road if used to even 40% of there potential. For me the sweet spot is (used) Sports cars. Sadly this genre also seem to be dying out as well (Bye F Type)😢. As James said “let’s enjoy then whilst we can”.
For the first time in 20 years I am down to just my daily driver. I can no longer justify the obscene insurance costs. Even after searching around the increase in premium is not acceptable so either my second car went or one of my motorbikes went. The bikes won.
that is the coolest thumbnail i've seen in awhile, the rest of the video is great but wanted to thank you for that as well, sadly rare thing these days.
Enjoyed the conversation and the soundtrack accompanying you! I pretty much agree with you, I have a 996.2 C4S, it's my supercar because I always promised myself a 911. But, I acknowledge that its not a supercar as I agree with your definition, somewhat. They need to make you go, WOW 👌.
As a teenager, I had posters of Countach & Testarossa on my wall. Now I have teenagers, and they don’t seem at all interested in cars. Something seems to have changed with today’s teenagers. i think there is a place for EV’s, im not an EV hater. Many EV’s have super car 0-60 times, if not top speeds (but as said in this video, road cars are limited to the national speed limits these days anyway)….the EV manufacturers can even dress the EV’s up in a lovely body, however, the relative lack of sound, leaves them pretty dead to me as a sports car. I’d rather have something like an F355 with its pedestrian ~4.8 0-60, than a Model 3 performance with its ~3s 0-60. The MG Cyberstar, looks great, but I don’t lust after one, largely because of the lack of sound & dramatics a good sound track sound brings.
The chapter about fun factor is something I think us petrolheads should really think about. Driving experience is more important than being fast... at least in my opinion. I mean, in my experience, even just from the passenger seat, I remember having much more fun in an R8 V8 Tronic than a brand new V10 performance. I found the 991.1 C2S to be as fun, if not more fun than a 458 italia and the manual F430 to be on par with the scud. All in terms of experience.
Driving experience differs vastly by car. But speed is experience. Driving experience in an MX-5 is much better than in a R8 Spyder at the same speed. But if you see James May driving a Veyron at top speed this surely beats the MX-5 experience .😅
"What defines a supercar?" Thats a hard and complicated question...Would the Bugatti Type 35 or AC Cobra qualify? I think the former would, but not sure about the Cobra....yet another car powered by a muscle car engine would (i.e. the De Tomaso Pantera). 🤷
Where are the affordable Supras and RX7? Where are the beginner sport cars like MR2 or civic? Where are all the supercars with nice NA engine and manual gearbox? Where are the light cars without 8 zone AC or whatever!? The market just shifted. We dont have affordable sports cars anymore, because they are not affordable anymore. Stupid regulations are impacting low volume sports cars, while motorcycles are still ok? We dont have such a variety of options when we want to buy a real drivers car. And if we want to buy one, we better prepare a fortune for it. All my motivation in life is just to buy a supercar/racecar one day, Ant described it perfectly!
I feel superbikes have already arrived there. Monstrously fast, expensive, painful (for me at least) to ride, and without the emotive connection. I’ve never owned a superbike but that’s going to change next year. Hopefully. And it will be an older one that I won’t be frightened to pull out the garage and do some miles on. How many supercar garage queens are there? And don’t get me started on Porsche GT! I think we may even see some more interesting GT and sports cars, hopefully with some more interest, or maybe it’s wishful thinking. If noise is all that’s needed though, I’ll stick a loud exhaust on my M2. That thing is already eventful!
Anthony next time I see you we need a more in depth chat. I was also homeless before all this it would be great to swap stories. Hopefully I’ll be attending with jay in the 16th/17th this month
The Porsche GT3 is a supercar and looks mutch better then a lot of other Supercar. My GT3 was parked next to a Ferrari 296GTB and 7 of 10 liked the Porsche GT3 moore
Oh my do I remember the days when you could get an F355 for 30-35k, a 993 turbo for similar money - i bought a 993 c4 cab for what is now cheap as chips about 15 years ago but do regret not upgrading to an F car or 993 turbo when I had the chance. The last bargain i came across was the SLS - when new mercedes couldn't shift them, and you could easily get one for sub 100k. I'm nearly 40 now, and when I talk about cars to kids in the Gym, or my neighbours kids in their late teens or 20's, they see me as an Anachronism! They like EVs, not ICE cars and they follow the EV world like Apple Fans watch WWDC eagerly. My cars are seen as dinosours, which only my elder millenial/genx neighbours are interested in - this may serve as a hint to where we're headed. In addition back to the cost of cars, i assume many people buying the highest end hyper cars aren't even into cars, they are luxury goods, to go with a high end lifestyle.
I think it might be dead but not totally, I've seen a lot of people not care about super cars or hyper cars because who cares about cars you will never be able to buy, so I've seen people just focus on regular sports cars like the 911 and the Emira :) But there are people who still dream with them! For instance, sure, I am mostly focused on the GR 86, Civic Type R and 911 GT3, but to me the top will always be a Lambo with a V12 🥰❤️ (Even the Revuelto, but that's pretty much the only one I really care about now. 🧐 And yes, it has A LOT to do with the engine and it's sound 🥰❤️)
I think it comes down to priorities. At the end of the day pound for pound most people's money does not go as far as it used to. When the average household is struggling to buy food and keep a roof over their heads, the luxury items like cars are the first thing to scale back on and even moreso with supercar. Another thing I would say is that there has been a lack of iconic supercars like there was in the past. The average non car guy will probably think the 458 is still in production and is Ferraris flagship car. The Aventador was an icon but that's all but gone now and all mclarens are too similar for the average person to distinguish between a 540c and 750s. We need modern icons on the road and in media and they just aren't getting t by at love.
Isn’t it all in some way connected with the general population trends going in some strange direction? Simple example is the music. How hard it is now to find some track that will blow your mind? There are nice tunes, they can even make you smile, are even not that bad and they are loved by many but they are all forgotten very fast. Where are the classics that are amazing even after many years. That is the difference. Same with the supercars. The recipe was very obvious. Create the car that was making your journey mind blowing. Now of course the idea is the same but the expected effect is different. The chase for more HP, more carbon, more options just to stand out is driven by the fact that some of the buyers will not even drive them but will say “my car has 1000 HP” “How is it to drive it?” “Great, the acceleration is amazing”. Sometimes it is not a passion but the mix of the show off and the investment perspectives. The customers are driving it. Is F8 better than Scud? Of course it will make better almost everything. But which one will be enjoyed by you? We will not change the world. Great that still we can drive and buy the more pure ones. Maybe the future will show that the people will start to miss the emotions, purity and one day we will be surprised by some engaging electric or hydrogen car that will kick, bite and like the passionate lover will push you to do anything just to get it.
I think a lot of it is due to changing social issues around climate change and air quality. You could drive a super car past a high school 20 years ago and everyone would have smiles and break their necks looking and pointing. Now you’d be met with shaken heads and frowns if you did that. The main point of a super car is for the theatre, if the show isn’t being well received people aren’t going to want to buy the ticket 😂
I think the Audi R8 v8 and v10 are a crossbreed, sports car/super car. Bit like the labradoodle. It’s officially a mongrel as it’s two pedigree dogs bred together and sometimes not official pedigree dogs either. But it commands pedigree money. Similar to the v10
The comment about overpriced Supercars/Hypercars is absolutely killing the dream is spot on, over priced cars that are made to be never seen on the roads are such a shame, bring back the affordable Supercars that we can dream of, my Tuscan is my affordable dream car that is within reach of most people and gives the same thrills at only 30mph, I wish this hypercar nonsense would stop
The problem for todays supercars is back in the time of the Countach the difference in every way to regular cars and even Mercs and Beemers was huge. Even regular cars today have decent performance and look great. Whereas compare a Countach and a Cortina and the difference is stark. Supercars just don’t feel that super in comparison. Believe me I take no pleasure in say this.
I've owned a couple of Porsche in the past and now have a Tesla and can categorically tell you that the "supercar's" end is nigh! In today's world it has become even more pointless to own a "supercar" than in the past. Owners of "supercars" are essentially, a single "nail" away from being confined to circling race tracks the privilege of which will cost them dearly i.e. until they're [supercars] ultimately, banned and confined to museums! Just like the "choo-choo" the "vroom-vroom" will eventually become a nostalgic relic!
Not sure I care if Supercars are dead or not if all we're going to be offered is an overweight, over complex, unserviceable automatic hybrid or BEV that just about keeps up with a knuckle dragging ignoramus in his or her Tesla. Price notwithstanding, Gordon Murray is on the right track with what he's designing. If a more mainstream manufacturer takes on board his philosophy - light weight, maximum driver interaction, beautiful detailing - I could get excited about supercars again. It used to be the case that if you designed a sports or supercar for people who COULD drive them properly, idiots who couldn't would queue up to buy them. Now they're designed from the outset to suit the idiots. In the meantime, there are tons of used supercars from the 80s, 90s and 00s to choose from.
My 992 GT3 parked up in Puerto Banus attracts constant attention and people taking photos. I believe any porsche GT is in that category. The new ones certainly.
Easy monetary policies, the hidden tax of inflation, asset bubbles - these are partly the answers of your questions about rising prices of supercars, how come so many multimillionaires etc.
Audi R8: the lack of a bespoke engine is what makes the R8 NOT a member of the supercar club, even for the V10. The V10 lambos are SuperCars but the R8 isnt. Why? I don't know. But that's how my enthusiast heart feels about it.
My take is simple. Supercars are the poster on the bedroom wall of millions of young lads. There are only 2. Lamborghini Countach Ferrari F40 They created insanity in a world that was radically different. In the age of social media, even the most extraordinary vehicles are not awe inspiring.
Ok so 911 not a supercar, but supercar by your definition is a car just for going fast... so fastest production times around NBR is GT2RS and GT3RS, beating almost all supercars you mentioned... so 911 isn't a supercar?
We didn't say it was just for going fast. We laid out our definition across a number of dimensions. For example, a BMW M3 CSL is faster than a Ferrari 488 GTB around the ring... Does that make the M3 a supercar? -Ant
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For years super cars were faster then the average sports cars now there are so many cars that are not even sports cars that are just as fast and e/v cars Then the fact that some of these cars are 300 thousand dollars 💸 and it’s not speed now but exclusivity and drivability 😊
For me as a 17 year old affordability hasn't been a problem since ever since I can remember I've thought i would never afford one.
For me the thing is they're not special anymore. And i think this is due to a variety of factors.
1.) Ive got older. Simple reality of life a kid will get more exited at things usually. I doubt this is the whole thing though.
2.) Supercars are no longer a special thing to see anymore. They've been trivialised by videogames and social media for me. If im constantly seeing new supercars in the news and all over social media on top of owning and being able to drive near on 100s in videogames. This kinda normalises them id assume. Wheras back in the day when i was a child supercars were much more special to me because the only chance i would get to see them is on top gear. I would be wowed because i didn't know they existed. Seeing one in real life would be a shocking moment I would remember instead of nowadays when its just "ooo a Ferrari" and then i move on. In terms of videogames i didn't play as many of them and I couldn't even unlock them in a lot of cases so they felt rarer and more unattainable which added to the cool factor.
3.) The cars themselves simply aren't special anymore. It feels like everyone and their mum is making supercars or high tier sports cars. Power numbers are gradually becoming more inflated for seemingly no reason which just feels stupid and pointless (especially in the ev market). Fast cars have been trivialised and no longer special nowadays since they're all fast.
Also i feel like the whole industry has fallen into what i would call the McLaren problem. McLaren have a habit of releasing about 900 special editions of the 720s each year. When you make so many things and claim they are "special" nothing is special anymore. And i feel like this mentality has hit me across the whole market nowadays. There's so many "special" cars being released none feel special anymore. Ive been more exited about a GR Corrola than any recent supercar I can think of. The Mustang GTD is probably the most exiting new supercar because it feels special and different in a world where everything feels the same.
Anyway thats my way too long essay on my mentality around supercars
Try a motorcycle bud. All the performance and scary excitement with much lower cost
@@swheelman7231 I don't care about performance personally tbh. One of my attainable dream cars is a cappuccino and that thing is dead slow.
Might own a bike at some point but I don't see myself getting one any time soon
As a 29 year old dude, I fully agree.
When you get 6+ versions of an Aventador, nothing stands out
@@akilh340 yep. Aventador and 720s are the worst offenders. The 911 is also mildly getting it as well.
Edit: forgot about the dodge challenger. A car which has like 4 special edition demons which is already a special edition in the first place.
Exactly this, you're spot on!
For most people these are dream cars. A person can have just as much fun in older, more affordable sports and sports sedan cars lik the Alfa Romeo 156, Saab 93 Aero, BMW M3, MGTF etc
Not the same but still a problem, obtaining a fast/dream car is also getting harder and harder. For example when the C63 launched I was 20 years old and thought "if I work hard I can one day own this". I could buy one today, but actually own one is much harder with todays fuel prices (2,20 in euro for a liter!) together with road taxes and road speeds going down, increased traffic and speed bumps its just not fun to drive a car you care about anymore.
That’s where I’m at with the Jaguar XKR , I can now afford one but petrol is $3.20 a litre
There’s a lot of great roads out there you just need to leave the built up areas behind :)
Fuel price is actually quite cheap when you account for inflation
@@mitchbuchannon6637keep it as a weekend car! Don’t commute or go shopping in it
@@bwdrives Ever been to The Netherlands? :')
You have to pay to play, if you want a car enough it's fuel consumption won't be the deciding factor
A supercar is a magnetite grey 2022 Subaru WRX with type R rear wing & an STI & D-spec body kit. It’s parked downstairs in the basement car park. In 6 & 1/2 hours I’ll push that starter button & my supercar will roar into life & take me home then sit in my garage until I go back to work tomorrow. 👍
I’m not sure what the correct definition of a supercar is but for me, my 2014 DB9 looks super, sounds super and makes me feel super when driving it. 😂
Good one 😏
@richardharrold9736i’ve had a vanquish too and it doesn’t feel like a supercar. just feels like a gt car
I think at the end of the day it's all names and titles, some claim a first gen r8 is not a supercar, others claim that a first gen nsx is a supercar.. i mean it feels like it's all very subjective, supercar looks, supercar performance, supercar presence etc.. so many variables which mean different things for different peoples
@richardharrold9736 “Some say the DB9 is not a supercar, all we know is that it’s the only car to ever be given it’s own fridge on the cool wall!” 😎
Then my friend that is a super car
I’m old enough to remember when the Countach, 512 BB, and 930 were the three masters of the car universe. Countach was frighteningly expensive at $105K, the Boxer was unavailable in the US, and the 911 Turbo was the race car for the road. Today, I think the “supercar” designation is pointless. There are many sub-4-second 0-60 cars, some of which carry groceries. All recent McLarens, Lotuses, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and even the Corvette C8 look similar - at first glance the C8 and LaFerrari share a basic shape and configuration. A Tesla Plaid is quicker, and a GT3 RS is the master of the Nurburgring - neither falls into your “supercar” definition. Maybe call them “boutique” cars due to rarity. There aren’t many, so performance stats aren’t all that relevant: Koenigsegg, et al.
Perhaps it's the term 'supercar' that's dead. There are just so may capable cars now and it's simply down to how much feedback a driver gets - all about feeling, rather than the figures.
I’ve always struggled to put my finger on what makes a great car for me but in recent years it has become crystal clear.
The sound. People tend to dismiss it as an afterthought “oh yeah sounds nice but it’s slow” but the sound is what creates soul in a car, as well as the feeling of being connected to it.
For this reason I’d choose my 2011 Boxster S which cost me less than a new golf over any new supercar available right now. It’s about as fast as an average hot hatch these days but delivers so much drama and excitement even below the speed limit.
A Mazda MX5 might be even better within the speed limits but the flat 6 engine feels so much more characterful than any inline 4 could
Agree, but I’d add the immediacy of being in a cockpit rather than sitting in a cabin. Your Boxster does this well. That said, a Carrera GT is more exclusive, so closer to the “supercar” concept… although there are so many “supercar” now it’s kind of played out. Pagani, Koenigsegg, Prodrive, Lotus, Maserati, Ferrari, McLaren, Aston Martin Valkyrie, etc.
The Boxster is a perfect example of a great sports car except for the 4 cylinder cars. Losing the flat 6 howl takes so much away from the experience. I miss my old 986 Boxster S every time the sun shines and sometimes when it doesn’t.
drama, sound: f-type
My 1972 lotus Europa special with 130hp feels like a super car. Ok a very old one. But I feel like I’m back in the 70,s driving down our A &B roads between 30 - 70 mph.
The cost of entry and ownership is a big part of the demise. They used to be a dream for everyone who was interested in cars, for me it was the Countach. My parents drove me about 40 miles away to see one that was given away by Alpine stereo in the 80s. At the time it was an 80k new car. I could wrap my head around that number and dream about buying one. To buy that same car today would cost 750k? I just can’t imagine a life where that is obtainable. I’ve seen conflicting reports on the driving experience of Countach’s, but I’m positive the buy in and upkeep would never be worth it to me, when I’m positive there are infinitely better vehicles for a fraction of the cost. The posters and dreams of a child’s mind were legendary though.
Back when I was young (well, 20 years old back in 2013), I always thought "If I work hard in the college and found work in aerospace engineering and earn good money, maybe one day I can have a second-hand 911 GT3 or SLS".
Nowadays both cars have been priced out of contention and all I dream of is having a normal life and... I don't know, a GBP1000 Honda Civic?
Im learning as I progress throughout this automotive journey that performance stats mean very little for a true enthusiast. I personally have found that a specific power/weight ratio is more important for me. My 1996 Viper is still by far the most engaging driving experience that I can find in that realm, manual, analog etc. I love my F355 but it is almost too easy to drive and lacks involvement compared to Viper. These things are all relative as well. The feeling you get in Viper is just legendary and I think it boils down to a few things. The car weighs near 3000 lbs and has an 8.0L engine with 500 ft. Lbs of torque. It has a stiff, tube frame chassis, and as importantly the Viper has an amazing hydraulic steering rack that is very precise. This gives the driver a high level of body control at all times and at all speeds. This ability to give the driver that ability and feeling of controlling the car in every way from the sharp steering to the super sharp throttle response. This overall response from chassis, engine and suspension are where the really special cars rise to the top. Few cars can match all of those areas in response, weight etc. like the Gen 2 Viper. Every true car enthusiast should own an early Viper that is properly sorted. Nothing like them if an unforgettable driving experience is what you are looking for.
The trouble is that regular petrol cars have caught up with the performance of supercars, let alone EVs. Add in noise regs making modern supercars sound bland and ever more stringent speed restrictions and I think that sadly you are right, the day of the super car has passed.
The most enjoyable performance cars I think are older cars, I had a 997.1 and it was perfect for today’s roads. You really don’t need more performance than that and you can actually push it on the road unlike, say a McLaren 720s.
Beyond that you need to turn to trackdays for fun, that’s what I did and don’t regret it.
But Anthony is spot on about motivation, a stack of car mags and encyclopaedic knowledge of 0-60 times kept me going through medical school😁
INTIMIDATING: this is what supercars have to be. Maybe for the speed, power, price or difficulty to drive it. They can't allow the driver to feel 100% comfortable with it like a cheap and practical car would do
We've definitely passed the golden age of the supercar. There seems to be a push for more and more horsepower and speed, which is kind of pointless when the roads aren't getting any wider and 1000cc bikes exist.
It is still between bikes with high capacity and motor cars, and the bikes are still the winners here.
The F type with 550hp is a supercar....amazing looks, great drive, huge sound, ...
And it is "the" definitiion of theatre....just that is supercar defining.
Great video, thank you chaps.
I’m 100% with you on this. When you consider what is available for 100k it makes the current crop of super cars a step that is hard to justify. I personally put my money into a 2015 Vanquish. Not a supercar but a car that feels and sounds really special. If I didn’t need a small amount of practicality then I’d be looking at 430’s, F12’s etc
Realistically I could maybe reach a 430 - just about, but honestly I think if I don't do it soon I won't ever get there, settling for my Alfa Quadrifoglio instead, which is hardly a bad place to settle I guess. I lived out of bins from round the back of supermarkets when I was 16, and stealing milk.......I've worked hard.
What I bemoan is the fact that you can’t even really get anything special for a reasonable price any more. Even if you weren’t rich you could quite easily pick up something like a Lotus Elise and run it on peanuts. Can you say the same for an Emira?
As you say the £200k supercar bracket is a pretty empty one these days, nobody wants to make a 6 figure supercar any more.
Bad roads, the closest raceway is a daytrip away, the cost of fuel increases almost daily and you are unable to pick up your friends. Also some of the supercars won't have enough space to go grocery shopping. Driving an '21 Audi Q2 I can surely say I'm happy to trade the F1 performance for every day practicality. It's not like one is able to utilize 650hp rear wheel drive on intercity driving.
I'm sitting here listening to your conversation and the fun factor is a very big thing for me ! I am not in any kind of position to buy a supercar of any kind , but i absolutely hate the fact that almost nobody is still doing proper 3 pedal manual cars and for me it is a very important part of the fun of driving ! Of all the cars i have had in my life , the one i missed the most is my old 1974 MINI 1275 GTS (granted it was very very modified) It was bloody noisy , it was not a smooth ride , it was very comfortable for the driver , but it was superbly quick and incredibly tactile . You could feel the road surface through all the controls and your rear end !
It's a combination of things, I think. The McLaren Artura is not being talked about because it was just too late to the game. The Ferrari 296 is just impossible to get because it was sold out for the entire production run, so a person in that position to buy one is not going to be talking about it if he can't attain it. It's hard to get excited for something you can't have. Lamborghini's platforms go for too long, 10 years, it's been yesterday's news no matter how many iterations they come out with. The McLaren 750S is just an updated 720S. So we are sort of in a Supercar funk right now.
Nice video guys! I think the main issue is we still compare petrol cars to electric with the same stats. Yes, we know most of these electric cars have 1000hp but if you use all that power (in a blast down the autobahn) your range drops ridiculously. We need a new way to compare cars. Hopefully the biofuels will be here soon, and save the ICE.
But a Veyron at full power empties it's fuel tank in 12 minutes and has a range of 51 miles.
EVs have made supercars irrelevant.
@@nakoma5
Really?Even though EVs offer the worst driving experience ever?
@@peterdejong5456 The fact that even an EV crossover can out accelerate an exotic ICE supercar while also taking the kids to school, yeah.
@@nakoma5
Figures the occupants never experience because they are engulfed by vacuum cleaner noise and the superheavy vehicle handles like a boat.
It will move to electric cars and some people with a lot of money will still buy all of them no problem. The people that don't like EV's will just keep buying old supercars instead. They will probably go up in value a lot.
What a great Adult ( petrolhead) conversation. So many great points and airing our worries and concerns. I really enjoyed this convo!
I drive a powerful electric car (no, not a Tesla). I've just bought a larger garage so I can add a fun car. It will probably be an old MX-5 since investors have made every old air cooled beater with a Porsche badge an "investment."
Good conversation… some very valid pub talk :)
Is it possible that an average car is less desirable due to overall costs? I have only had my driving license for less than a year and I am honestly thinking of hanging it up after my my first year of driving. Too expensive.
Is The Supercar Dead? I hope so - then their values will drop, and real enthusiasts, rather than entitled investors, will be able to afford, drive enjoy and care for them.
As for this one, the interest in Super Cars and performance has gone, preferring to waft along in pure luxury and comfort, enjoying the car, while others break the speed limit and defy the Laws of Physics.
I don't think the supercar will ever die
I live in South Wales as from the 19th September the speed limit is being reduced to 20mph. Super car territory 😂😂😂😂😢
Didn't they try this a year or so ago and change their mind rather quickly?
@robchaloner7534
Back then it was just talk..but the powers that be have spoken 😂🤔🤪
On country lanes?
I don't know, that Maserati is incredible. listen that engine note and the speed of the gearshifts with the backfire in-between gear changes. I love that sound
If you buy a car for the driving experience then it should be no need to pay 200k. If the manufacturers wanted, i am sure they could come up with something a lot cheaper. A miata sized Ferrari with a fast reving V6 or small V8 would be a lot cheaper. But, ppl like to swing their dicks and the fanufacturers know it.
USA - "Grab me my sledgehammer,"! European - "Grab me my scalpel". LOL love em all.
Interesting vid thanks for sharing. One thought for me is the badge, that’s why brands like Toyota differentiated with Lexus. The R8 has the credentials of a super car but perhaps parked in any European car park with many Audi badges on display somehow dilutes it, but hey, Armani jeans and Levi’s are still jeans…..
What the supercar world needs is something like a 65-75% T.50 that only costs a couple hundred thousand dollars, and that can be produced in decent numbers from a major manufacturer.
GT4RS? 500hp, engine in the middle, crazy looks, best sounding car on sale today…
Nice to listen to this chat. And I can't think of a single thing I disagree with, which for a specialist in disagreement like myself is rather surprising. As they say back in the Antipodes where I grew up; you're not wrong.
The Supercars conversation. I've always felt the TVR Tuscan is a Supercar. Blistering performance. Amazing looks. Mid mounted engine behind front wheels. Designed only for the drivers driving experience. And the Tuscan R 215 mph. Ticks all the boxes for me. Sound. Rarity. Speed. Looks.
James! I have watched your main channel for a long time and never realised you hve this other one at all! Make sure to give it a plug now and again!
Some strong points but it really comes back to one point they just don't make them like they used to. That wild nature has gone.
The added benefit of a motorcycle is that they deliver super car performance for a 10th or more of of the price. The aspect of theatre is nice but necessary.
Your definition of Supercar rules out front engined V12 Ferrari's (not rear mid mounted). I have one (a 2013 FF), I can assure you it's super. It sounds awesome. In fact right out of the factory is was louder and more tunefull than the F12.
Agree with you on prices, now daft. But in a world where M3 or M5 Tourings are £100k to £150k's then Supercars have to be appropriately higher.
I'm now in a car that I can't possibly replace. Nothing on sale interests me more than the FF. There are faster cars, more comfortable cars and easier cars to live with but none of them are a V12 Ferrari.
I can't use the performance I have now, what can I do with more? Jeremy Clarksons review of an F12 on old Top Gear sums it up perfectly. Of course you can enjoy it in the UK, you just can't enjoy all of it.
I've owned mine a little over a year now and drove it 11,000 last year. I bought it to use. I'm an oddball and understand that if I ever came to sell it it would be worthless as it's actually been driven. So I guess I'm just going to have to keep it. It's an event every time I get behind the wheel.
When I was in college an R34 was VERY affordable and I got a decent job and all that to eventually buy one. Now I can't touch it.
I kind of feel that high End sports cars like AMG gt63s or M8 competition now are so dam quick, sub 3 secs 0-60 with all the luxuries in the interiors and proper boot space etc that a super car these days just seems pointless. 200 grand extra for 0.3 secs quicker to 60 with just 2 seats. I just can’t justify spending that much on a Lamborghini when I can buy a second M8 competition for a fifth of the price which is only a tiny bit slower.
This comment hits the nail on the head.....Everything is fast today !! If only judged on speed , many categories of performance cars can claim Supercar level's of performance , ie : Sportscar ~ 992 turbo s , Super saloon ~ M5 Comp , Super SUV ~ DBX 707 , GT ~ 812 Superfast , Classic ~ tuned 300bhp+ 20VT { Straight line of course }.....If we're talking theatre and drama , nothing will match a Supercar........So for me , the Supercar wont die.
It makes me cry... had an r32gtr as an import back in 2004, it cost £4500 to import and road register in the uk.. Sold it a few years later for about 8k. move on 15 years and they are more money and less performance than a gr yaris
Just found this other channel, love the format. Subscribed
Definition of a Super car (all "for the time"): 1. top 5% performance figures (meaning the engine has to be in the "stupid" category of power output). 2. Only affordable by people in the top 5% pay range (for the UK at least). 3. Produced in low volumes. 4. Makes extensive use of exotic materials. 5. Uses cutting edge technology (for the chassis, transmission or engine), meaning the engine is either a) unique to that car or b) derived from one already in another supercar. 6. It's got to make normal people turn heads to look at it.
For me 3 is the reason the R8 (of any guise) will never be a true super car, despite the fact that I remember when it came out and personally I lusted after it. But that was based on it's looks alone before I understood actually how vanilla it was. Similarly 5 is why the Emira isn't a supercar (apart from how it looks there really is nothing special about it - that's not to say it isn't a great sports car).
Basically a supercar needs to have taken at least one major aspect of it's engineering "to the extreme" in order to classify in my view. It needs to be expensive, very fast in a straight line and handle at least very well and haves something about it's engeering that makes you go "wow". Plus it goes without saying that it need to look special enough to catch peoples attention just standing still. (of course much will depend on where you live, if you see Lambo's or Ferrari's every day/week in your area you'll not give them a second glance after a while).
Also, sorry but i'm going to have to disagree on the sound thing. Whilst I love a good exhaust sound, it's just not a criteria to being a supercar in my mind. The Rimac Nevera is 100% a supercar.
Sound is so important for a Supercar. I am not saying my Elise is a one in the least. However, it does look like one and the sound out of the Larini Stage II exhaust emulates one. After a triple digit play with an AMG GT on the way to Cars and Coffee they came over to compliment my exhaust note. And on the 'Fun Factor' it is an "11". It is why EVs will always be antiseptic.
Sadly the environment to own and enjoy Supercars is fading.
Sticker law enforcement with new advances speed cameras appearing almost everywhere, much higher purchase prices and higher finance costs. Not to mention that they newest Supercars are just too fast for the road if used to even 40% of there potential.
For me the sweet spot is (used) Sports cars. Sadly this genre also seem to be dying out as well (Bye F Type)😢.
As James said “let’s enjoy then whilst we can”.
For the first time in 20 years I am down to just my daily driver. I can no longer justify the obscene insurance costs. Even after searching around the increase in premium is not acceptable so either my second car went or one of my motorbikes went. The bikes won.
that is the coolest thumbnail i've seen in awhile, the rest of the video is great but wanted to thank you for that as well, sadly rare thing these days.
Enjoyed the conversation and the soundtrack accompanying you! I pretty much agree with you, I have a 996.2 C4S, it's my supercar because I always promised myself a 911. But, I acknowledge that its not a supercar as I agree with your definition, somewhat. They need to make you go, WOW 👌.
As a teenager, I had posters of Countach & Testarossa on my wall. Now I have teenagers, and they don’t seem at all interested in cars. Something seems to have changed with today’s teenagers.
i think there is a place for EV’s, im not an EV hater. Many EV’s have super car 0-60 times, if not top speeds (but as said in this video, road cars are limited to the national speed limits these days anyway)….the EV manufacturers can even dress the EV’s up in a lovely body, however, the relative lack of sound, leaves them pretty dead to me as a sports car. I’d rather have something like an F355 with its pedestrian ~4.8 0-60, than a Model 3 performance with its ~3s 0-60.
The MG Cyberstar, looks great, but I don’t lust after one, largely because of the lack of sound & dramatics a good sound track sound brings.
The chapter about fun factor is something I think us petrolheads should really think about. Driving experience is more important than being fast... at least in my opinion.
I mean, in my experience, even just from the passenger seat, I remember having much more fun in an R8 V8 Tronic than a brand new V10 performance. I found the 991.1 C2S to be as fun, if not more fun than a 458 italia and the manual F430 to be on par with the scud. All in terms of experience.
Driving experience differs vastly by car. But speed is experience. Driving experience in an MX-5 is much better than in a R8 Spyder at the same speed. But if you see James May driving a Veyron at top speed this surely beats the MX-5 experience .😅
@peterdejong5456 that's what I'm saying. It's about how the car makes you feel and communicates with you.
YES YES YES YES Finally someone on youtube talk about this
"What defines a supercar?"
Thats a hard and complicated question...Would the Bugatti Type 35 or AC Cobra qualify? I think the former would, but not sure about the Cobra....yet another car powered by a muscle car engine would (i.e. the De Tomaso Pantera). 🤷
Where are the affordable Supras and RX7?
Where are the beginner sport cars like MR2 or civic?
Where are all the supercars with nice NA engine and manual gearbox?
Where are the light cars without 8 zone AC or whatever!?
The market just shifted. We dont have affordable sports cars anymore, because they
are not affordable anymore. Stupid regulations are impacting low volume sports cars,
while motorcycles are still ok?
We dont have such a variety of options when we want to buy a real drivers car.
And if we want to buy one, we better prepare a fortune for it.
All my motivation in life is just to buy a supercar/racecar one day,
Ant described it perfectly!
Great video men. Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel superbikes have already arrived there. Monstrously fast, expensive, painful (for me at least) to ride, and without the emotive connection. I’ve never owned a superbike but that’s going to change next year. Hopefully. And it will be an older one that I won’t be frightened to pull out the garage and do some miles on. How many supercar garage queens are there? And don’t get me started on Porsche GT! I think we may even see some more interesting GT and sports cars, hopefully with some more interest, or maybe it’s wishful thinking. If noise is all that’s needed though, I’ll stick a loud exhaust on my M2. That thing is already eventful!
Anthony next time I see you we need a more in depth chat. I was also homeless before all this it would be great to swap stories. Hopefully I’ll be attending with jay in the 16th/17th this month
The Porsche GT3 is a supercar and looks mutch better then a lot of other Supercar. My GT3 was parked next to a Ferrari 296GTB and 7 of 10 liked the Porsche GT3 moore
No it's not it is a fast 911
Very interesting and entertaining video, although my main take away from this will be the hip-hop lawnmower!
It has been a while since we last seen James Dean.
Oh my do I remember the days when you could get an F355 for 30-35k, a 993 turbo for similar money - i bought a 993 c4 cab for what is now cheap as chips about 15 years ago but do regret not upgrading to an F car or 993 turbo when I had the chance. The last bargain i came across was the SLS - when new mercedes couldn't shift them, and you could easily get one for sub 100k.
I'm nearly 40 now, and when I talk about cars to kids in the Gym, or my neighbours kids in their late teens or 20's, they see me as an Anachronism! They like EVs, not ICE cars and they follow the EV world like Apple Fans watch WWDC eagerly. My cars are seen as dinosours, which only my elder millenial/genx neighbours are interested in - this may serve as a hint to where we're headed.
In addition back to the cost of cars, i assume many people buying the highest end hyper cars aren't even into cars, they are luxury goods, to go with a high end lifestyle.
Has it stopped making that noise? When ULEZ is nationwide that will be an ussue
I think it might be dead but not totally, I've seen a lot of people not care about super cars or hyper cars because who cares about cars you will never be able to buy, so I've seen people just focus on regular sports cars like the 911 and the Emira :)
But there are people who still dream with them! For instance, sure, I am mostly focused on the GR 86, Civic Type R and 911 GT3, but to me the top will always be a Lambo with a V12 🥰❤️ (Even the Revuelto, but that's pretty much the only one I really care about now. 🧐 And yes, it has A LOT to do with the engine and it's sound 🥰❤️)
Loads of good points made… but a 360/430/r8 aren’t supercars, they just aren’t nearly mad enough.
I think it comes down to priorities. At the end of the day pound for pound most people's money does not go as far as it used to. When the average household is struggling to buy food and keep a roof over their heads, the luxury items like cars are the first thing to scale back on and even moreso with supercar.
Another thing I would say is that there has been a lack of iconic supercars like there was in the past. The average non car guy will probably think the 458 is still in production and is Ferraris flagship car. The Aventador was an icon but that's all but gone now and all mclarens are too similar for the average person to distinguish between a 540c and 750s. We need modern icons on the road and in media and they just aren't getting t by at love.
Isn’t it all in some way connected with the general population trends going in some strange direction? Simple example is the music. How hard it is now to find some track that will blow your mind? There are nice tunes, they can even make you smile, are even not that bad and they are loved by many but they are all forgotten very fast.
Where are the classics that are amazing even after many years. That is the difference. Same with the supercars. The recipe was very obvious. Create the car that was making your journey mind blowing. Now of course the idea is the same but the expected effect is different. The chase for more HP, more carbon, more options just to stand out is driven by the fact that some of the buyers will not even drive them but will say “my car has 1000 HP” “How is it to drive it?” “Great, the acceleration is amazing”. Sometimes it is not a passion but the mix of the show off and the investment perspectives. The customers are driving it. Is F8 better than Scud? Of course it will make better almost everything. But which one will be enjoyed by you? We will not change the world. Great that still we can drive and buy the more pure ones. Maybe the future will show that the people will start to miss the emotions, purity and one day we will be surprised by some engaging electric or hydrogen car that will kick, bite and like the passionate lover will push you to do anything just to get it.
Sadly the ‘Driven, Not Hidden’ rule has been forgotten, and replaced by ‘Profit over everything’
I think a lot of it is due to changing social issues around climate change and air quality. You could drive a super car past a high school 20 years ago and everyone would have smiles and break their necks looking and pointing.
Now you’d be met with shaken heads and frowns if you did that. The main point of a super car is for the theatre, if the show isn’t being well received people aren’t going to want to buy the ticket 😂
What’s the coastal road from the very beginning of the video!?
I think the Audi R8 v8 and v10 are a crossbreed, sports car/super car. Bit like the labradoodle. It’s officially a mongrel as it’s two pedigree dogs bred together and sometimes not official pedigree dogs either. But it commands pedigree money. Similar to the v10
Great content guys but too many ads, it’s spoiling the enjoyment of these videos
Lamborghini Muira, Ford GT40 and Ferrari Daytona (365 GTB).
The comment about overpriced Supercars/Hypercars is absolutely killing the dream is spot on, over priced cars that are made to be never seen on the roads are such a shame, bring back the affordable Supercars that we can dream of, my Tuscan is my affordable dream car that is within reach of most people and gives the same thrills at only 30mph, I wish this hypercar nonsense would stop
The problem for todays supercars is back in the time of the Countach the difference in every way to regular cars and even Mercs and Beemers was huge. Even regular cars today have decent performance and look great. Whereas compare a Countach and a Cortina and the difference is stark. Supercars just don’t feel that super in comparison. Believe me I take no pleasure in say this.
I've owned a couple of Porsche in the past and now have a Tesla and can categorically tell you that the "supercar's" end is nigh! In today's world it has become even more pointless to own a "supercar" than in the past. Owners of "supercars" are essentially, a single "nail" away from being confined to circling race tracks the privilege of which will cost them dearly i.e. until they're [supercars] ultimately, banned and confined to museums! Just like the "choo-choo" the "vroom-vroom" will eventually become a nostalgic relic!
Not sure I care if Supercars are dead or not if all we're going to be offered is an overweight, over complex, unserviceable automatic hybrid or BEV that just about keeps up with a knuckle dragging ignoramus in his or her Tesla. Price notwithstanding, Gordon Murray is on the right track with what he's designing. If a more mainstream manufacturer takes on board his philosophy - light weight, maximum driver interaction, beautiful detailing - I could get excited about supercars again. It used to be the case that if you designed a sports or supercar for people who COULD drive them properly, idiots who couldn't would queue up to buy them. Now they're designed from the outset to suit the idiots. In the meantime, there are tons of used supercars from the 80s, 90s and 00s to choose from.
good convo 👍
Jay needs to do super bikes too
The smaller engine new cars will make the older big engine cars value go up
Soon all cars are dead just boring big SUVs
Supercar doesn’t have to be loud exhaust anymore
I don’t get these arguments. You can get a mclaren 720s for 130k and it’ll crush most HyperCars
Brilliant video
My 992 GT3 parked up in Puerto Banus attracts constant attention and people taking photos. I believe any porsche GT is in that category. The new ones certainly.
And there’s Ferraris around that get ignored a lot of the time…. They are quite common here though, strangely.
Easy monetary policies, the hidden tax of inflation, asset bubbles - these are partly the answers of your questions about rising prices of supercars, how come so many multimillionaires etc.
Prices up... interest rates up... everyone is starting to notice the economy crashing.
Go to Piston heads and just put ferrari, there are over 1000 for sale, say no more, say no more, a nods as good as a wink to a blind horse.
Audi R8: the lack of a bespoke engine is what makes the R8 NOT a member of the supercar club, even for the V10. The V10 lambos are SuperCars but the R8 isnt. Why? I don't know. But that's how my enthusiast heart feels about it.
Exotics and supercars have become a commodity in number and a joke in performance (1000+ hp) for the road
My take is simple. Supercars are the poster on the bedroom wall of millions of young lads.
There are only 2.
Lamborghini Countach
Ferrari F40
They created insanity in a world that was radically different. In the age of social media, even the most extraordinary vehicles are not awe inspiring.
The Tesla makes your super car look slow😂 think this may be the issue 🤷♂️
Super cars have peaked its only downhill from here
I watched through the whole thing anticipating a mention of the C8 or Z06. I am disappoint
Ok so 911 not a supercar, but supercar by your definition is a car just for going fast... so fastest production times around NBR is GT2RS and GT3RS, beating almost all supercars you mentioned... so 911 isn't a supercar?
We didn't say it was just for going fast. We laid out our definition across a number of dimensions. For example, a BMW M3 CSL is faster than a Ferrari 488 GTB around the ring... Does that make the M3 a supercar?
-Ant
Anything over 250k£ on the market is a super car