Feminism Under The Microscope with Mary Harrington
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2024
- My guest today is Mary Harrington. Mary is a writer and contributing editor at UnHerd. She's the author of a great book called Feminism Against Progress. In this episode, we talk about her general critique of feminism, we talk about what she calls progress theology, we talk about the changing social status of motherhood, we talk about the Barbie movie, gender dysphoria, and much more.
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Colman is such a warm and engaging interviewer . He immediately makes the guest comfortable. He comes across as a really decent person
I am convinced Coleman’s background as a jazz musician gives him remarkable timing. He takes his time.
These conversations show his skills as a jazz improviser
Yes , he is a thoughtful person ...
Agree with above that his jazz musician background helps make him a good interviewer
I am stunned that Coleman is only 27. How can someone so young be so seasoned?
Having a child is a revelation you can't explain to someone who hasn't gone through it. It's an important transformation that many people these days are avoiding like it's the plague.
I have three. I love them dearly. I think you grow up in a way you don’t any other way. BUT it’s not for everyone and it’s okay not to have kids too. Isn’t that the point? Do what we feel.
@robinalexander5558 it's ok to not have kids but I think a lot of people are being lead to believe they don't want kids, which can be a devastating, irreversible decision you may some day find yourself dealing with for the rest of your life. And I don't think "do what you feel" works in most cases.... otherwise, I'd be sitting in my parents' basement playing video games, drinking. Deferred gratification is a huge part of long-term happiness. Most of the time, what feels good in the moment, costs you in the end. Most people could use some more responsibility in their lives, not less.
@@llIIIIlllIIIllI I didn't mean "do what you feel" as in be a child and be irresponsible. No, in that way I absolutely agree with you. I meant more that if you know you don't want kids, then you shouldn't be shamed or pushed into it. As far as people being led to believe they don't want kids, that opens up a whole other Pandora's box. It's unfortunate that some people are that easily influenced. What's become of us? What happened to logical/rational thought, exploring possibilities, weighing pro and cons, knowing who you are, and making a valid decision? Unfortunately, whatever road you take, there are 12 others you can't take. Anyway, good talking with you.
@@robinalexander5558 My experience is that many many, most in fact, of women who do not 'want' children, had extremely selfish mothers. So, don't really not want kids, really don't want kids to go through what they went through, and don't trust they willbe better. Lotas of don'ts in there. A false decision.
@@jackdeniston59 Again, lots of people WANT children for the "wrong" reasons too. All I'm saying (and btw I have three of them) is that this is a personal decision and people should develop enough understanding of themselves, rational thinking and the rest of it, and be allowed to make their choices without society shaming them. Now, if you choose to have kids, there's good and bad that goes with that. If you DON'T have kids, there's good and bad that goes with that. We can't have it all. Each path has its benefits. End of story, no?
It's very refreshing how much and how willing Mary is able to hold herself accountable for past wrong-doings and ill-natured beliefs. Introspection and humility is sorely lacking in much of today's discourse which in turn eliminates anything resembling nuance and good faith. I hope to see many more with her degree of self-reflection rising up in the intellectual and political landscape.
Well said and so true
Coleman Hughes is an example of how speaking slow with no substance reveals nothing and solves no problem.
I never get bored of listening to Mary Harrington. I would have been happy if this had gone on for another 2 hours too. Great chat as always Coleman! And i like the new mech :)
Did a new mech suit drop?
He meant merch!😂
She strikes me as always trying to be radical. The way she describes what she was like as a young woman and now with this turnaround where she is a reactionary feminist. And Coleman should know it is quite different for a woman to parent than a man. It is a much bigger burden for women.
Men are the drivers of the hookup culture. It is men's sexual preferences winning out. Women don't want to be shamed for their sexuality, but most don't enjoy hookup culture either. They don't have the power to take control. At least we have birth control and abortion. We may need better methods and many of us don't take the pill because of negative side effects and use other methods.
Harrington is an intellectual that can talk a good talk about choices that work for her, but her arguments wouldn't work for me and many other women. I don't want to be in her cage.
@@jacobstammHe upgraded the heat sink and the shields
@@jacobstammGundam?
this is a ridiculously fascinating conversation. Even by the very high standards I expect of Coleman, this is an exceptional pod. It is interesting to me that people who are worth listening to don't fit into the 'right/left' dynamic. I'm glad that Coleman brings nuance to complex issues instead of choosing a tribe and jamming shit down people's throats. Bravo man. Keep it up.
Get over yourself.
no@@LeekowalskiWalker
She is a person that is very open about herself, as Coleman remarked. Liked the conversation very much.
Mary Harrington is both wicked smart and delightfully weird. I love her awkward random giggles at things she finds funny.
And Coleman, having kids will be the most important thing you ever do. That it has come to be seen as a negative among so many young people is the mlst glaring sign that our culture is deeply sick.
Her giggles are everything! Earnest and sincere ❤
"Women and femenists are responsible for the breakdown of the family"- in my experience, it has been the men who abandoned or abused the women who caused the breakdown of the family, leaving women alone to work and raise kids.
In individual cases, certainly, you are right. She is referring to the cultural idea that the nuclear family has been devalued by those movements. A strong stance, and I'm not sure to what extent I agree, but it's worth contemplating.
A pop statistic for perspective: In the US in the 1960s roughly 10 or fewer white children were in a one parent home; today that is around 25%.
In the 1960s roughly 25% of black children were in a one parent home; today that is around 70%.
These phenomena must be reckoned wit, and the first step to reckoning is to theorize and then to see how well the theory fits events and data.
Very best to you!
No, others don't stop having families because of a few failed families / relationships
my father , my siblings and i were abused by a very powerful and effectice sociopathic/narcissistic mother. it would be incorrect of me to say that because we were abused by her means or is the reason that women have abused and/or ruined society (the devouring mother archetype) and have made feminism into an anti-life organisation. likewise, to say that because there are examples of men behaving badly is proof of all men is false.
And yet civilization has had strong family values up until the feminist movement and now women are suffering from chopping off their noses to spite their face. It's almost like the filtering of historical trial and error produced what was most efficient for families to live, thrive and survive.
I agree. Women are often left to do too much of the upbringing. This isn't fair. However, the broader argument I think is what Mary is referring to.
Harrington is so insightful, in both a theoretical and a personal way, and her voice is so warm and genuine: it's always a pleasure to hear her.
I find it so fascinating how people have to study and study and study different theories to discover things that are blindingly obvious. People spend their whole lives following a journey to where anyone with common sense began.
This is an interesting comment. I understand what you mean, and have thought similarly, but there is something missing. It's part of the enlightening journey perhaps. Understanding WHY we do things and then choose how to act, not just follow the unconscious river flowing from the past.
Haha. Well said. Reminds me of the Orwell quote. Some ideas are so stupid only intellectuals believe them. She was able to get out of the cult. Thank God.
I think that’s the snare of high intellect and curiosity. Like all things, they’re a fantastic gift, but all things in moderation and with wisdom.
Us average folks are blessed with age old wisdom, tradition and culture, and even religion to guide our lives to prosperity and peace.
But thank the gods for those who are curious and brave enough to challenge status quo, when society becomes too narrow, rigid and oppressive. Or we’d have never established, democracy or individual liberty.
@scartissuefilms This is kinda my impression after reading a psychology book.
It was either bleeding obvious or just rather theoretical.
As a college professor I agree. The amount of nonsense I've read through my younger years just to find out in the end that most of the answers I was looking could be found in any country song or over dinner with a drunk uncle.
I'm male, but with such an upbringing, disposition, and education to make me familiar and interested in feminism. I'm reading more about the movement all the time, both the pro-feminists and those more critical of the movement. I think Mary Harrington is one of the most rational, cogent speakers on this topic. She definitely brings a different perspective on the topic, offering recognition for the feminine problem and compassion for women in the 21st century that conservative voices too often lack, but offering more than talking points and herd mentality that Feminism typically presents.
A very thoughtful interview, sir.
its a kancer, just to make it easy for you, ya simp
Really enjoyed this conversation. I immediately downloaded the audiobook of her book “Feminism Against Progress” and started listening - great stuff.
Thanks for having conversations like this Coleman!
It’s a beautiful thing when a woman is unafraid to be a woman, and to let men be men.
What is that even supposed to mean? Seriously I don't get it
@@Kelly_KC Well then, I'm a little sad for you (and your man, if there is one). Maybe you will grow wiser with age.
@@Relayer56 when men get catty ☠️
This was good. Mary is an extremely insightful social critic with a timely message that people should engage with, whether they're largely in agreement or not. Coleman has become a fantastic interviewer. He keeps his guests and their ideas in focus; even when he's inserting personal anecdotes, they're highly relevant and genuinely additive to the conversation, not self-aggrandizing. The one time I remember him getting a bit testy was with Neil deGrasse Tyson, who's pomposity was so unbearably performative during that discussion that Coleman had to put his foot down, but his default disposition is one of humility and grace and appreciation for the thinkers that he speaks with, and it makes for really revealing explorations of the ideas that they contend with.
So the woman who enjoys being a mother wants to restrict the rights of women who don’t want to reproduce. She’s an eloquent speaker but dead wrong.
How is she wrong? Explain
I’ve read a lot of Mary’s work on Unherd and enjoyed a lot of her podcast interviews.
So great to hear a little more of her backstory- can much better understand how and why she thinks the way she does. A very important thinker, indeed.
"How did we end up with a mother shaped blind spot?" What a line!!!
@@vivienneb6199 Mothers get everything paid for them either by their husband or by the government. What are you talking about?
@@vivienneb6199 Lol, if I have to pay for the kid that falls out of you for the rest of it's and yours life, then I am the one who bears the biggest (not most, learn how to English) cost for sex, aren't I?
@@vivienneb6199 So you're agreeing with me that mothers get everything paid for them by someone else. Your resources are given to you by someone else. Wtf are you even doing here lol? You're adorable xD
Feminism hates motherhood
Feminist detected@@vivienneb6199
This was one of the easiest to relate to, most compelling interviews you or anyone has ever given. Bravo to you and to your guest. She is a thinker who has in fact actually, truly, really thought deep thoughts and then explained them clearly and convincingly to the likes of me. At least for me, this interview is now the gold standard against which all others are measured.
We have created a culture where humans exist for the economy rather than designing the economy to serve human beings.
But notice that neither the Left nor the Right has advocated mandatory accounting in the schools since Sputnik.
If schools created too many independent thinkers, the existing corporate overlords would constantly be displaced.
@@skylinefever
Is there really such a thing as a non-independent thinker?
The only way to think is to do it for yourself otherwise a person is just a pseudointellectual parrot spouting the ideas of others.
perfect point. ı never understand for example why everyone glorify Japan. It is horrible that Dispense should work to dead drop dead because someone would say ohhhh how wonderful they are rich . But ı was in Japon it is not true at all.Th buildings are ugly and poor looking so on.. yes , they are perfectness so food looks good and very good.
I was asked when I ran for Parliament if I was a 'feminist'. My answer was that it depended on your definition. Mine answer was, 'feminism is women living life as much as possible on their own terms, our society providing the tools (legal and substantive) for that to be possible, and that this would liberate men at the same time.' I wonder if Mary would agree. Great interview and book.
I was unemployable for 20 years. I knew it at the time. I fought like hell for the grace that I needed to maintain employment. It is a sucky place. It doesn’t always get better.
Best book I read this year!! ❤ God bless you, Mary.
I have her book and could listen to Mary for hours. Thanks for having her on, Coleman, and Happy New Year!
I'll listen wherever i notice MH has landed. It did seem like Coleman got more from her than I've heard before.
Just for example, i believe i hadn't heard her link unemployability & ideology yet. So now her twenties are a cautionary tale I could've used in my twenties.
Mary's great, so is Louise Perry, pls have on LP. I'm 32, I'd almost say my fav ppl are Louise, Coleman, Yeonmi Park, mainly because they're close to my age, and either high profile intellectuals doing great work, or nearly Ayaan-level heroes (Yeonmi).
With that said, it doesn't mean I always agree. I tend to follow Louise's work more closely, who's a little more my generation. However, I'm a US Centrist Liberal, which pretty much matches Coleman. I'm not a moderate Conservative, either UK or US (like Mary, or Louise).
Therefore, I'd appreciate if Coleman would consider engaging debate a little more, with Mary or Louise in future convos (to reiterate, these are a bunch of my fav ppl. Hearing the healthy disagreements helps me clarify my thoughts).
I couldn’t watch Barbie past the point where the little girls smashing the heads of their baby dolls was framed as a epically monumental step forward for civilization. That was so ugly.
“What I would love to see is a world where all babies are welcomed without that coming at the expense of their mothers’ personhood”
Most mothers and fathers are forever changed when their baby arrives, and life is about their child/ren more than about themselves. It doesn't mean that the parents can't still be their own people, but priorities shift, and willingly so. Some parents aren't like that, and they really shouldn't be having children.
Indeed ❤
Impossible. The very act of baring a child neurochemically changes a woman for life.
@@swcordovaf interesting! Have you got any links to articles about the neurochemical changes that birth brings with it?
@@stephen6851 Have you never met one ?
Excellent conversation! Thanks for the great content Coleman!
Our parents don’t want to babysit, considering as an eldest daughter I pretty much was the nanny for my brothers. Even if they wanted to, job opportunities don’t exist in our home states so we don’t even live close to them. Bring back the community model and extended families.
The father worked to pay for everything and so the mother had a different role. But, as a female, she could not see that and demanded that not only should the father giver her everything but take over her contribution as well. A true Feminist.
4:51: "Who does the dishes is the perennial question." There is another perennial question: Who goes to war and dies for his country; and who interposes himself between the sniper and the children, and takes the bullet to save his family?"
Groundnews - The idea of my first UA-cam channel which I didn't follow through as very soon I got burned out in scanning through all news and level of bias that becomes apparent in every para and choice of words. Thankfully someone has had wisdom and acumen to build a product out of it. All the best to them and hope there are more like them
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🔄 *Mary Harrington shares her journey from a liberal, postmodernist perspective in her youth to questioning those beliefs after facing personal and professional challenges.*
08:33 🔄 *The collapse of a startup she co-founded led to a profound reevaluation of her beliefs, and she transitioned from an anti-hierarchical, postmodern worldview to a more grounded and questioning stance.*
17:15 🔄 *Mary discusses the allure of the American dream's promise of total freedom, self-invention, and rebellion against norms but highlights the potential burden of endless self-searching and lack of anchoring.*
18:23 🔄 *Reflecting on feminism, Mary critiques the idea that one can construct their gender entirely divorced from the influence of their body, emphasizing the importance of accepting and working with the given aspects of our physiology.*
21:05 🔄 *Mary argues that accepting the inherent aspects of our physiology can be more liberating than attempting to escape them, as the latter leads to a perpetual pursuit that cannot truly be outrun.*
21:31 🤰 *The embodiment significantly influences how individuals perceive the world, and women's hormonal cycles can shape their unique relationship between object and subject.*
22:00 🤱 *The speaker found peace with her own body through motherhood, realizing the lack of control and the visceral connection to her child, challenging the notion of freedom as separateness.*
23:24 🤯 *The experience of feeling more than one person but less than two after childbirth challenges conventional notions of freedom and individuality, prompting a reevaluation of feminist ideals.*
29:36 💊 *The second-wave feminism, influenced by reproductive technologies like birth control and abortion, marginalized voices advocating for the importance of motherhood and care, favoring a pursuit of sameness.*
38:17 🩸 *The speaker highlights dissatisfaction with the pill among younger women, emphasizing the unexpected consequences of the sexual revolution, challenging the notion that it solely benefited women's freedom.*
43:16 🚺 *Mary Harrington initially leaned towards a "safe, legal, and rare" stance on abortion but later found that the legalization of abortion marked a decisive victory for the feminism of freedom over the feminism of care. She sees it as a clear expression of prioritizing individual freedom over the needs of a vulnerable dependent.*
44:37 🔄 *The legalization of abortion and the availability of the contraceptive pill are intertwined, with the societal changes brought about by the pill leading to a surge in unplanned pregnancies. Harrington argues that legal abortion becomes a consequential demand once reliable contraceptives are in place.*
46:02 🔄 *Abortion and the pill represent the entry into the transhumanist era, where medicine is not just about fixing things gone wrong but also breaking things that are working as they should, all in the name of personal freedom.*
49:15 🤔 *Harrington expresses concern about a society that grants personhood based on the extent to which individuals can escape their biological roles, particularly emphasizing the idea that freedom should not be defined by evading motherhood.*
54:19 🌍 *The declining birth rate is discussed, noting the challenges in Western societies where economic growth and progress theology make singlehood attractive while the experience of having a child and a family hasn't evolved significantly. The structural anti-natalist nature of the culture, economy, and politics is highlighted.*
01:03:21 🌐 *The movie's unexpected ending, keeping Ken as second-class citizens, reflects real-life struggles of men and women negotiating how to live together.*
01:03:50 🔄 *Fundamental discussions about men and women living together boil down to the reproduction of the next generation.*
01:04:05 🧬 *While not everyone must have kids, the meaning of life involves reproduction, a necessary aspect for life to continue.*
01:05:14 🚹 *The loss of male single-sex sociality, influenced by the push for unisex spaces, has been an undercounted cost, impacting men's social networks.*
01:07:16 🔄 *Feminism has contributed to the decline of male social spaces, and a more balanced approach is needed to preserve such spaces.*
Made with HARPA AI
What is "HARPA AI"?
I fckng hate that AI-generated verbiage.
@@richatlarge462 What AI generated verbiage?
My reply?
*@lomotil3370's* comment?
*Reply to:* _"I fckng hate that AI-generated verbiage."_
My reply was to OP. It's just one more way to separate us.
Awesome interview Coleman! Always insightful
Great discussion. I'll definitely look into Mary's book!
There are a few positions from people I truly cannot comprehend. One of them is the idea that we don't have enough people on the planet and that the slight decline in birth rates in developed nations is somehow a catastrophe waiting to happen, while in developing nations the birth rate is exponentially increasing.
I think the issue is that we built an economy/society that relies on constant consumption and production.
@@tomcoop9750 Also true. "They" want more people to buy products. Good point.
@@tomcoop9750viable alternatives are always welcome. You got one?
no, theyre dropping in developing coutnries too, and less kids has huge impact on next generation
No one thinks we don't have enough people on the planet. People do think that we shouldn't encourage a decline as we can't understand the unintended conséquences that will follow.
Brilliant insights, thank you for having her on. Such an important voice!
"Although it fits with my principles, I couldn't recommend that because it would change things so fast"
Things change quickly sometimes. Look at the massive drop in fertility rates after Roe was declared. Sometimes you just have to rip off the bandage, especially if it covers rot.
Fertility never changed.
What changed was women's rights were stripped away.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 The birthrate dropped by like 0.5 children per woman (below replacement), the year Roe was passed. My generation is a "sandwich generation", having to take care of both parents and children, as a result.
So yeah, Roe was a mistake, and repealing it was the best thing for America.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 You think people have the right to commit murder?
You're a monster.
@@jimluebke3869
Abortion is not murder.
It's a legal medical procedure.
Are you pro-gun ?
...but I do agree that people shouldn't murder.
@@jimluebke3869
Well Jimmy I'm on your same 'sandwich generation ' in which it was the WOMEN that did all the caring for children and then their own parents.
There is no obligation for women to procreate.
Yes Roe was repealed, and how many states voted for keeping abortion? LOL
70% of Americans are pro-choice.
It was always men I was dating who tried to convince me to go on the pill. I tried it twice, both times at the behest of men who casually said “Why don’t you go on the pill?” Because to them it was no big deal, and would make their lives more convenient. It made me depressed, anxiety riddled, and gave me terrible acne. The worst part? It absolutely destroyed my sex drive. Effectively medically castrating me. Part of me wondered if that was a feature, not a bug. It upset me that nobody seemed to think that was an issue. As long as it convenienced men, what was the problem if I no longer found any enjoyment in the act? Even my own mother made ignorant remarks about how “there’s no excuse anymore for a woman to become accidentally pregnant.” I didn’t bother correcting her that the pill is a horrible idea, and not at all effective if you can’t take it. I’m so glad to now stumble upon more and more young women who aren’t afraid to talk about how not ok the pull is.
Speaking as a man with a vasectomy, I think a vasectomy is actually much more convenient.
More than half my lifetime ago when I was a teenager, my girlfriend started on the pill; the cute and sweet girl I began dating ... well I'll just say she changed. But the one of the ways sex complicates things is that it ratchets up the seriousness of our relationships, so we stayed together way longer than we should have.
I believe that we're best off waiting until marriage to have sex. It's not easy to do, but it is better.
Well, waiting for sex works for some and not others.
Maybe the pill changed her. It is not that healthy of a birth control method as it can really change a woman.
One definite reason for a declining birth rate is that many men don't view a marriage or family as a viable option, regardless of whether or not they want it. While social attitudes and incentives do push many to remain single, also at fault is a complete failure between the sexes of communication, trust, and a broken legal system. Men see marriage as a scam, something in which they have everything to lose (kids, wife, money, house, etc.) to a broken legal system while women see it as a patriarchal con to be reverse-played. In such a situation, the question, really, is who WOULD get married?
Yep...the trust between the sexes is simply gone. We just don't trust each other anymore. We see each other as a means to get off either sexually, financially, as some travel companion. The moment shit gets tough it is everybody for himself. Why work on conflict resolution and compromise when you can start the cycle with somebody else again? Also, there is no long term vision to why you would be with someone.
@@Alnivol666Not just trust, I don't even like them. That distrust of strange men that we naturally have, that feeling is actually stronger in me towards women. Saying that as a man, too.
Women don't want to marry either
They're not "anti-hierarchy." They're authoritarian and opposed to any hierarchy they do not control ideologically.
The description of “who does the dishes” sounds out of the 1960s, not the 1990s. That was my experience as a kid in the 1960s, but by the time I had a child in the 1990s, cooking and doing the dishes were tasks equally shared by myself and my wife.
The answer should be robots.
It seems the mother didn’t work outside the home, so ‘castle’ care was her domain; however, her offspring should have been given chores to assist in her household duties.
Tons of men in my family act exactly as she describes. And the other half don't. Im not surprised at all that she experienced that.
Excellent! Once again. Coleman embodies the best of a thinking class.
My opinion is that all children should do chores of some sort ... And chores done should help the family out plus create discipline with humility for the kids ...
Such a great interview. I just discovered this channel and became an instant fan of them both.
Choice... Making music in the 90's, I went from 4 channels of bass, guitar, drums, keyboard to a computer with an infinite amount of channels and instruments. Six months later I stopped making music.
Interesting to hear a nuanced conversation about how transhumanism plays into this topic.
Mary is fantastic. Sweetly weird. And I can't wait for Coleman to have a bunch of kids. ❤🎉
The world needs many more little Colemans.
@@MorePlausible Yes! 😍
17:00 the irony of "rebelling against the norm" being a cultural norm... these are the seeds of nihilism.
She loses me when she is both anti-abortion and anti-pill. Abortion rates go down when you have access to birth control, no?
I have listened to Mrs. Harrington raising this point several times. It is based on statistics that have apparently demonstrated that female contraception has led to the rise of more abortions and of more single parent households. It seems paradoxical, but the logic isn’t flawed, because using birth control could lead to more risk taking, birth control aren’t foolproof, and casual sex is an activity that can be repeated at such high frequencies that even though the probability of pregnancy has been significantly lessened the sheer volume of these activities/behaviours may tend to overcome the odds.
Also, I should add that her main issues with birth control and abortion are ethical. She doesn’t base them off of utilitarian metrics (sacrifice the few for the good of the majority), rather she views artificially modifying the normal functioning of the human body through biotech as a form of transhumanism (I.e. birth control uses synthetic hormones to alter the human bodies normal functioning). Transhumanism is understood as a threat to bodily and moral integrity (and wholly unsustainable, as well as a potential driver of unprecedented inequality). Furthermore, when we weigh the method angainst the pursuit, which is to essentially indulge a cultural preference that stipulates that women should be able to work and live out their lives in the exact same way that successful male bachelors do; the goal doesn’t justify the harms caused by the process.
Abortion is unethical because it is the purposeful killing of one’s own offspring. In the realm of non-consequentialist ethics, the intention to kill any human being would be viewed as morally unjustifiable.
The argument against birth control bc of transhumanism could be made against most of modern medicine. It is a flawed premis.
Perhaps the rise in use of birth control correlating with an increase in abortion is due to both being made widely available during the same time period, not because one caused the other.
She’s referring to a WHO study where they found that “unintended” pregnancies rose after discontinuing any form of contraception. “Unintended” is not the same “unwanted” and is certainly not the same as abortion. Also, a women is often “extra” fertile the first few months after discontinuing hormonal contraceptives, so this is entirely predictable. Perhaps lack of information and education on the subject is the real cause. Not contraception itself.
Freedom comes with responsibility
Self responsibility. Not duties
Does it though?
I am hear after watching Coleman Hughes on Bill Maher. Coleman was very good. I am now a subscriber to Coleman's channel. Brilliant interview.
"Obviously, people who don't have kids can also contribute to society"
Yes, but having enough kids is enough of a burden that this can never be more than a tiny minority fringe of society.
So, any normative social order _must_ include motherhood / fatherhood, even to the point of ignoring others as a fringe.
People have to raise the kids right to. There is no upside to the communist Romania baby boom after the abortion and contraception ban.
20-16% of women don’t have kids. Hardly a fringe minority. Consider this: in 1900, 25% of women remained childfree.
Society? You mean the tax base
1:02:58 omg same.
When I saw Barbie I expected they would end up with equality. It felt wrong to me. Maybe that's because I was lucky enough to not grow up believing I was inherently inferior to men.
I’m a bit puzzled by the “dishes dilemma”. It doesn’t sound like any family I’ve ever known for the last 50 years. Just sounds like laziness, which has no gender bias.
Love both Mary and Coleman... I vote for another episode, 3 hours this time!!
Great interview!
Amazing interview! 🤯👏👏👏🤯
Thank You for talking for us who were put on the pill by people who were supposed to be caring for us.
1:00;00 Ha, the example of women not being there to vote for their own interest on day care made me think about what you said earlier about men prioritizing aspects of medicine around their own assumptions. One group not being aware of another's priorities is not specific to sex/gender.
Ah, the brilliance of youthful thinking. Mom should have required the boys to help. She only saw the work her mom did in the house to care for the family but did not see the work her father did outside the house to take care of his family.
Thank you our Beautiful Mary for attending unto our Beautiful and Heirs Hosts! Conversation come Here!
I’m glad to see you had similar thoughts about Barbie.
M.H. "I have no idea what men do when I'm not around."
C.H. "Play Call of Duty."
He didn't miss a beat. He had that answer on lock.
What we need to do is enhance the differences between men and woman. Something like power sharing rather than thinking we need to be one unit. That would probably takes us back to something like what it was. I think woman had their own power in the past.
💯 an egalitarian society
There’s a great book “Civilized to Death” where he talks about what life was like before agriculture transformed life for the worst. How tribes of Hunter-Gatherers lived off the land (no agriculture, no amassing huge amounts of wealth, no slaves or masters) and the whole tribe looked after & protected kids and not just the nuclear family unit
Another great episode ❤
I disagree regarding the banning of abortion of "snapping back to dead women". The cultural norms surrounding single motherhood have actually flipped. Single mothers are "boss babes" and "how dare you tell me I can't have it all". they can even use the system to their advantage, too.
Yeah, having to apply for government assistance despite working 1 or 2 jobs is so advantageous. I speak from experience. There are no advantages. It's all just survival.
37:40-38:38 is one of those string of statements that are so truthful and devastating you just have to laugh at the absurdity anyone believed otherwise.
Mary Harrington is so unique and incisive in her views. It is so hard to argue with her views. Coleman’s “diner” allegory is outstanding. To hear him want to be a father of multiple children once again gives me hope in the future world.
Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion! I would like to add (at mid-point) that abortion extremely discounts the psychological damage that results. A woman who miscarries is given the space to grieve and process. The woman who experiences an abortion has no such freedom - she must suppress in the name of “liberation”. Why aren’t women who say they care about women reaching out to to teach young, inexperienced women (and men) about the severe responsibility attached to a sexual union?
I think better health care is a bigger contributor to putting off motherhood than the pill. Now is a certainty that your baby is going to survive birth and reach adulthood. Before that, if you wanted to make sure that at least one baby was going to make it to adulthood, you had to start making a lot of babies as soon as possible. My grandma (she's now 94) is the youngest of 7 siblings. All of them died, but her. None of her siblings lived past 15 years old.
While that's true, those developments happened quite far apart in time. Infant mortality dropped in developed countries in the late 19th-early 20th centuries, whereas the pill came in the 1960s.
@@merrymachiavelli2041 Birth rates in Japan started to decline before the pill was even legal there. So the pill is not the main cause for low birth rates. I think people got used to have a lot of kids and then slowly realized it was not necessary.
My only cousins were the ten children my Uncle Dan and Aunt Pauline had. They were very poor with no indoor bathroom but my aunt made most food from scratch, better than any restaurant. Five girls first, then five boys. All survived and have been successful.
Great discussion!
@@annbrucepineda8093 My grandma had 8 kids, all of them sirvived to adulthood. But they had fewer kids themselves. And their kids, my cousins, are having even fewer kids.
And yes, I love this low birth rates discussions. Have a good one!
My wife is now teaching our kids that women will never have equity because of their periods, beauty standards, “workplace discrimination “, hormonal differences than men, etc etc etc. In the feminism context, what is this victim mentality referred as? I’m trying to find resources to equip myself with the knowledge to help steer them in a direction of acceptance that the sexes are different and men don’t necessarily have the easy road. TIA
What a Christmas treat ❤
What an amazing guest and what a timely conversation on topics that concern so many women today who are confused or mislead by the new wave feminist ideologies.
As an older middle-aged man, I am delighted to hear Coleman wants to have multiple children. Both excited on his behalf to try his hand at parenting and also that we get more Coleman copies :)
One of the most horrible parts of modern-day feminism is the fact that it’s deprived women of the experiences that Mary was describing at the beginning of the interview. Failures and disappointments, and also the capacity to self-critique and hold oneself accountable. We all go through shit, men and women. Most men and women just say “¯\_(ツ)_/¯ not my fault, somebody else fucked up not me” and dont change, women more so (due mainly to modern woke liberalism enabling them). Mary didnt though, she went through shit and blamed herself instead, and she’s better off because of it. Bravo to her, I have a ton of respect for her as a result.
I could never understand the militant feminism of the last decades. I always wanted to have a career, and ended up with a fairly successful one, but being a mother and a having a family was the most important job that I ever had. But I credit my feminist aspiration with being not just a biological mother, but rather being a respected and respectful friend for my child.
Great. A Coleman video in my stalking! Merry Christmas!
Does she ever say what her father's job was?
What if he was a plumber? What would that have to do with dirty work?
if you live in the era of anesthetics, cancer surgery, treated potable water, antibiotics, present era agricultural productivity levels, modern mobility and transportation, among many 1000s of other things that make life better and easier and STILL don't "believe in progress", sorry, you are just daft.
Mary harrington is one the greatest contemorary thinkers, its amazing.
Coleman I wish magic would happen and somehow media channels like the crap hill would get you on as a frontman, instead of the low quality propagandist interviewers that they push.
This was a brilliant interview. Thanks, Coleman and Mary!
Incredible conversation!! Thank you ❤️
Wow, what an unexpected, yet fully flushed out set of points.
It’s very hard to find any flaws in her arguments.
Well conducted, Coleman!
And now for something completely different: imagine how it must be - to be born(!) with a motivation, by your mother, "for her to come in peace with Her own body". Now, this is really hardcore. Or horror. Poor kid. 🥺😔🙏
My gracious! I must be getting old: these children of the 90s are truly crazy--both these people were so extreme in their descibed younger years (haha) and still are that I can't imagine how they are going to navigate their 60s as I am doing right now. They are such academics about the basics of being human they've turned themselves into pretzels, and others are giving them license to speak their nonsense. Hearing Mary describe being pregnant and giving birth like "going through the looking glass" and like "growing an extra limb" that has been removed and placed across the room in a crib is what was surreal to me. Or that feminism is "a mother shaped blind spot." What she describes has been argued about forever. PEOPLE: every one of us wants to be respected for the being that we feel we are inside our own heads and bodies. Isn't it that simple? Let people live their lives and stop all this academizing. The questions are not new; their pretzel making may be novel however. I wish you all well; I guess I've lived long enough to see that these same ole questions just crop up in the newest generations and still there are no answers. Yes, as Twain said, history sure does rhyme, and round and round it goes.
If you prefer, give me all your wealth and labor and I can choose for you. Do you really think that's not going to be worse than having too many choices?
The way I took the barbie movie was that the barbie world was a literal and metaphorical false reality of gender and the solution to escaping it was becoming an actual person.
This was fantastic
Thank you both sincerely 🕊
Are we awake now🕊
At approimately an hour in, MH mentions 'Schmidtean [?] logic'. Forgive my ignorance - what is she referring to here?
Outstanding stuff!!!!!
Not sure if I agree with her argument on abortion. Women were performing abortions thousands of years before we had birth control.
Love the socks Colman. Great conversation.
How can I play Coleman at 1.25x and Mary at 0.75x ?
Amazing conversation. I immediately ordered her book and can't wait to consume it.
Great guest❤
Great interview. Good luck with your distance running in the year ahead, Mary.
I am from TURKEY AND Turkish people bring their children everywhere.