Bare Shaft Tuning a Recurve Bow | How To: Recurve Archery Bareshaft Tuning | Tuning Series Ep 10
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- How do you tune a Recurve Bow? With Bare Shaft tuning! It really is not complicated, I break down how top level archers tune their recurve bow using the bareshaft tuning method. How to fix arrows that are too weak, too stiff, nock high, nock low, etc. All of these things are covered in this video and I help you understand why each change takes place.
I find that if someone understands why bare shaft tuning requires adjustments, they can better understand the optimal way to achieve that perfect arrow flight using bareshaft tuning methods laid out here.
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Jake this is such a great video - clear and very helpful advice, you explain these concepts so well - thank you 👍
I'm glad you made this video Jake! I wasn't sure I tuned my bow correctly because there are a lot of people in my club giving tuning advice from their own (mostly very limited) experience. Like that it doesn't really matter where your bareshaft lands as long as the arrow flies nicely, or that the plunger tension is the biggest factor in your tune, or that one or two twists up or down on your string will absolutely kill your tune.
Stuff like that.
I'm happy that we have this structured, logical guide to follow now.
I've started to do my own research a couple years ago on all of this stuff and just more or less disregard the "native" advice. I haven't looked back since. Keep up the good work brother!
Jake, how about the weight difference as you don't have the vanes on the bare shaft so it's weight (distribution) is different and will react weaker.
Edit: forgot to say great video as always!! Thanks
Eh, it’s not that much. I’ve added tape to the back and didn’t see much of a difference. It’s a couple of grains. We don’t use the heavy vanes that compound do, the mylar type
Vanes we recurve shooters use are roughly 7-9 grains in total.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery thanks, still shooting cheap arrows so vanes are a bit heavier. I use some tape to tape them away. Seems to work well with my current form and faster then cutting them off :)
Thanks again (and quick reply!!!!)
So the question of vane weight compensation occurred to me this past week wile tuning some new VAP .166's. I'm using Bohing X Vane 2.25" which weigh in at app. 15 gr. for three. Adding an equivalent amount of duct tape, 3.5", resulted in a 8-10" spread at 30 yds. between weighted and unweighted bare shafts. So I'm not sure which I should tune to. Thanks for replies!
@@buzzhooker8398 If you have the time you could try both to see what works better. But seeing Jake's reply without is probably good enough, most videos i see are just bare shafts without any additional weight at the back :)
Do you prefer a dead-on bareshaft tune or do you like to have it slightly weak/strong or low/high? Does this change when you go from indoors to outdoors?
Thanks for this info very helpful
Great video once again. Thanks!
Hey Jake, i don´t understand how you can tune an arrow of 36,5 inces while your draw length is much shorter??? Can i also use 36,5 inces arrow while my draw lengthis 30 inces???PLEAS explain this to me because it drives me crazy.THANK YOU IN ADVANCE BIG FRIEND!!!
Hi, what about the plunger spring tenssion, how should it be, when tuning bareshafts and adjusting center shot using walk back method.
1- Stiffness
2- Bow Weight
3- Arrow length
4- Point Weight
5- Nocking points (maybe)
6- Plunger
I shoot a 47 pound trad bow , I shoot UNCUT 340 and 400 spine through it , I don't even know the weight of the field points that I screw on the end of these shafts, and at 20 plus yards I have great groupings .
Who has an explanation?
The Easton arrow selection chart for target recomandes at 34 lbs and 27,5" the ACE 780R or 720R.
The right handed archer (last indoor competition result 575) tested both at 30 m and the result was very surprising. The 720 bareshafts were constantly to the right in the black rings an the 780 bareshaft also to the right, but close to the group or in the 9.
Hi Jake, thanks for another great episode.
One question which is bothering me for a while: When adjusting vertical tune i.e nocking point height, shouldn't the bareshaft land slightly higher than fletched arrows due to the drag of the vanes that slowing them down slightly? I bet if someone would measure arrow speed just before it hit the target at 30 m or more there would be small but noticeable difference. What do you think?
At 30m it’s not enough to notice as far as drag is concerned.
I’ll shoot some arrows at 30m through my chronograph. And do a vid for you.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Cool! Thanks!
I have a qustion concening plunget tension at the beginning of bareshaft tuning. The method is described by Peter Gabriel as "arrow flight on rails". He suggests to aline limbs, center shot and lining the sight pin to the string. Then flatshed shafts should be shot on 30 meters. He says to adjust the plunger tension to compensate for left and right until the aming spot is hit. Then he recommened bare shaft tuning exactily the way you explained in the video followed by walk back tuning. Woud you recommend this method to find the plunger tension to begin with?
Thanks and keep on going! :)
I personally don’t recommend that. I’d rather have better grouping arrows and move my sight in the middle rather then have arrows that hit behind the pin and group bigger. I’ll expand on that more further down the line.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thaks for your recommendation. I´m looking forward to dig deeper into it!
Hello Jake, I enjoy your engineering point of view on the art of archery. But why do you on your bare shaft tuning not compensate the weight of your removed fletching of the bare shaft. Without this compensation your nodes will not be the same, also speed etc. Maybe a test with and without weight compensation ?
In all my testing, it doesn’t make enough of a difference to matter.
I use vanes that weigh so little maybe 5-7 grains top in total including the dried glue residue.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thanks, clear answer !
Hey Jake, you’ve probably answered this already, but what arrow shafts are those?
Is it possible to do only bareshaft tuning { without using fletched arrows at all} just aiming at a certain point?
what is your thoughts on nock tuning?
Great video again. One thing is important for me: You never can get a bareshaft properly into the group by only changing plunger pressure. This might be able at one specific distance, but not for all distances. Because of this I always do the bareshaft test at 18 and 30 metres. If the fletched arrows and the bareshafts match at both distances, this is going to be the best setup, and the walkback test is going to run properly either.
But, Jake, what's about taping the bareshafts to get the same FOC as at the fletched arrows? What's your experience about this?
FOC stands for F*%#*+= Over Complicated imho 🤷🏻♂️
In all honesty the tape method is ok, but the resulting tune I saw wasn’t enough of a difference to warrant the effort and time. Fine tuning results in a much tighter grouping bow then bare shaft tuning alone
@@JakeKaminskiArchery, thanks. This is similar to my experience. But you often read about taping the bareshafts as an important method. If I tune without taping I know that my setup is slightly at the stiffer side. Another thing is that the tape can touch the plunger, what makes the test useless.
I Saw your reply, but are you talking about bare-bow. I shoot Olympic recurve with a clicker. Cutting my arrows by even that 1/4 inch would alter my draw length when I come to anchor.
Just move your clicker for the change In arrow length. Simple.
Hi jake, May I ask you if I do the bareshaft and fletch shaft test, the bareshaft is left of fletched and nock left, what is that mean? Thanks a lot
If you are right handed it means they are weak.
@JakeKaminskiArchery Right handed, but bare shaft is hitting left to fletch～
Let’s say you have a lower bow weight of 38-40 lbs, is it at all possible to tune something like an RX-7 or an X23 for indoor? Or are they just too stiff for a light setup
After arrow stiffness, you said the easiest change is to adjust draw weight. Doesn't that change brace height and nocking point?
Not nocking point, brace yes. Minimal, but easily adjusted to bring back to spec
If fletchings add straighness and forgiveness , why does everything seem to point to smaller rather larger fletchings ?
Wind drift.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery thank you.
Long for indoors 18m, short for out, 50m....barebow ?
Its funny, l stopped using long tall fletchings because l could see marks on my riser rest....but, my short short fletchings leave a mark as well.
Great information...helping a lot as l reconnect .
I found that in the beginning, tunning was an interesting journey but frustrating and gave up because well my form wasn't consistent enough to make tunning tell me anything.
Thanks
Is there a tiller video yet? The link was for nocking point.
I talk about tiller and nocking point in the video I linked. Tiller is coming
Jake Kaminski You did! Tiller is something that I “get” but don’t understand how to tune it. So, as you might have guessed, I am looking forward to your video on it 😊. Thank you for doing these videos, they truly are an amazing resource, they have already been a massive help to me in all areas. Thanks again!
I never did catch where you did a tiller video
ua-cam.com/video/xoZSRPqpS3E/v-deo.html
Changing your arrow length will affect your draw length and hence your shot process
Incorrect. Arrow length has nothing to do with your draw length. I have anywhere from 29”-34.5” arrows I shot, all with the same draw length and technique. Move your plunger out to compensate for the arrow length change.
Brace height: higher wakens the spine?
Correct.
This channel is a treasury of knowledge. Thanks Jake.
1 thing I love about your videos you dont BS and you dont keep any secrets to your self. I think you would make a fantastic coach keep it up If I was 1/2 way around the world ( Oz) I would love to meet you and get some coaching
Thanks for the support.
I'm so confused, i have both several compound bows and a recurve bow. Whenever i paper or bareshaft tune, the freaking arrows dont react to any changes i make! For example i have a nock high and right tear. I unglue my insert, take off 100 grains of weights that were screwed into the back of the insert and re-glue. I also turn my adjustible nocking point around the string to move the nocking point down. I shoot again and get the same tear! Nock high and right! Same with my compounds, except on the compounds i get a nock left tear no matter what i do, i've moved the rest into every possible position, i twisted the yokes and still i get that nock left tear (i dont have facial pressure on the string, i checked for that).
Your sound just got a lot better. 👍👍 Glad you got a Lavalier mic!
If I can't hit my target at 30 meters then I need to practice more before I can bare shaft tune? But I need to bare shaft tune to hit my target at 30 meters. Irony can be so painful.
Yeah. You have to have consistent form.
Yes.
Relatively new archer here. A little confused on something. If shooting bareshafts provides the "true" flight of an arrow and adding fletchings only obscures that, why do we even use fletchings? Apologies if this is stupid.
Tuning with Bare shaft its all about plunger button and nocking point?
Tell me when you start talking about the subject
If bare shafts are perfectly tuned why add vanes at all?
For someone new to tuning, a ballpark estimate of how much you can increase/decrease poundage with limb bolt adjustment might be useful here. 6 full revolutions anticlockwise from all the way in is usually max out and you've got roughly a 10% (of the rated limb poundage) gain in weight from there with clockwise adjustment to all the way in. (5% with 3 revs etc)
Great Vid ! Thanks. Can't wait for the sideways flying arrows video. My biggest problem is that as a lefty, my arrows are consistently flying point right (tail left). Bare shaft is worse. They fly this way even if I remove the plunger! Uggggggg! If only this was as easy as rolling a kayak!
Cheers,
Chris
Great Video - very informative! I have some issues with my Easton x10 bareshafts (Spine: 550) - all of them are on the right side of the fletched group (about 30-40 cm away) - so the arrows are definitely too weak - should I choose 500 or better 450 for X10? I’m not really sure...
Have you checked a spine chart?
Yes, I checked it - I should take 500-550 for 45 lbs (28” arrow lenght) - but the 550 are too weak - and I’m not sure whether the 500 are stiff enough to get closer to the fletched group... It’s all about eliminating a 30-40 cm space...
Joshua Merz it usually says the letter R next to the spine you should use with a recurve. Especially if they give you two spines like that. And usually it’s the stiffer arrow needed on a recurve.
@@scryptjo9247 My 500 with 40,5 lbs, 28" arrow length and 120 grain points fit well.
Bareshaft Tuning, Low Poundage Recurve , Field.
When tuning my 28# Barebow Recurve with VAP 1000 spine+80 gr, points, I found that when shooting 3 bareshafts and 3 bareshafts that were taped, (taped in the same place as the vanes on the fletched shafts) the 3 bareshafts always landed RIGHT of the fletched. The TAPED bareshafts always landed LEFT of the fletched.
First I adjusted my nock point. Then I increased my draw weight to bring the taped shafts toward the fletched shaft because I wanted the greatest distance for arrow flight. I found that I can aim on the target with 28# Draw weight using the riser shelf. When the bow is tuned using the (weaker spined) bareshaft the bow doesn't shoot as far.
I have not tested for group size,
Hi Jake, thanks so much for your amazing videos. I try to find advice about the centershot and plunger setup for bareshaft tuning. Centreshot you have covered. I can't find if it's OK to stiffen up or make the plunger rigid, e.g. with a match instead of the spring just for tuning... Then roughly bareshaft tune and then what? keep it stiff for further tuning or let it back to soft plunger?
@jake another great video. I have read you Tuning for performance book and watched this video. I adjusted the bow weight and got the bare shaft to fall withing the group but my group has now moved to right. Is this normal? Do I know move the sight pin back to the gold? Thanks Mark
I recommend you always say that this tuning is for shooting with fingers, does not apply to anyone shooting a release. If someone just watches one of your random videos that youtube suggests they might not realize that.
If the string pushes forward on the rear on the arrow, why does the arrow bend sideways? This is the critical difference between using fingers and using a release. With fingers the string pushes forward on the arrow but also it pushes sideways on the end of the arrow and this sudden sideways push is what makes the arrow start its bend. This doesn't happen shooting a release.
In the old days we didn't do the walk back tuning and we didn't have adjustable poundage so all we could do was change the arrows or the plunger. This might be why we sometimes had plungers out left of centershot.
Best explanation on youtube. thanks
Another great video 1 way I remember about weak / stiff high / low is everything is reversed . By that I mean say your right handed so your right hand is the strongest left hand weaker but you reverse it where the bare shaft hits ( same can be done for a left hander ie left hand strong / right hand weak same with high nock point the arrows are reversed ie hit low & visa a versa for for low nock point .
Jake, where do you set the sight pin when your setting up a bow to bare shaft? I was always taught to set the sight pin above the centre of the arrow, then adjust plunger pressure to centre the fletched group on the target, then bare shaft from there and not adjust the button at all.
Unfortunately in winter we don't always have access to 30m distance. So bare shafting at 18m is our only choice.
Hey how do you tune fat arrows without destroyin them while bareshaft tuning... i broke half
a dozen while tuning
Great video. Just take the wind muff off your lapel mic. You don’t need it indoors and it will help your audio a little. 👍
This is a very informative video ... THANK YOU for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us 😃 🙏🏻
interesting opinions from you, esp about adjusting draw weight ahead of blunger
I don't like that you're calling my bare shafts weak. They're trying their best!
Best target out there is the matrix that specific Rinehart is the number two best
Hi Jake,
again many thanks for your work!
Well done, go on, please!
I'm trying to figure out why my arrows stick out at different angles when I shoot at different distances. For example, I just shot 8 arrows in my garage from different (close distances). Probably lie 2 meters, 4 meters, and 6 meters. At each distance the arrows consistently stick out at completely different and opposite angles. E.g. arrows at 2 meters stick out with tails left. At 4 meters, the stick out with tail right. Then it flips back again at 6 meters. Do I have a spine issue? Center shot issue? Definitely stumped.
Have you seen this video? ua-cam.com/video/JA8yw_HXscU/v-deo.html
Another great video! I tune my arrows by the order you recomend. I have a (silly) doubt: if I increase the strength of the bow to make the arrows weaker, shouldn't the arrows and the bare shaft go both to the right, keeping the distance between the groups? Thanks!
It will, a tiny amount. But not together in unison.
Jake, awesome video and I learned a lot from it. Please continue the awesome series. My doubt with this video is that you didn't mention anything about the sight pin. Does it stay constant throughout the bare shaft tuning? If yes, then where would I place my sight pin, to start the bare shaft tuning? Amateur such as me would adjust my sight pin to correct the arrow to fall on the center. I have absolutely no idea right now if my arrows are stiff or not, if my nocking point is high or low. Right now, I would adjust the sight pin to correct the errors to make surer the arrows land in the center. How would bare shaft tuning help me differently from what I am doing right now?
When tuning, where your arrows land in relation to the target doesnt matter, where the bareshafts land compared to the fletched shafts matter. Ignore the target, but you have to aim at the same spot so it helps to have one up, and dont move your sight during the end to compare the arrows to eachother.
I'm shooting barebow and for 30m I need to do string walking.
For bareshaft tuning at this distance, do you recommend using string walking or switch to a gap-shoot and try to anchor next to the arrow.
I'm wondering if tuning using string walking will be valid when adjusting the crawl for other distances, like 50m.
I’m not 100% on that yet because I’m a barebow virgin relatively speaking. I do know that they crank their plunger tension up and down depending on the distance they are shooting to keep their impact point left and right the same, this is partly due to the change in tune.
Hi Jake! Thanks a lot for another one great video! I have a question, my bare shafts landed to target not perpendicular, but with some angle (similar for all arrows). Is it normal? Thanks!
Got a video for that, check it out. ua-cam.com/video/JA8yw_HXscU/v-deo.html
Ok, I know this video Has been around for a while and it’s a darn good one, but I’m confused about adjusting “bow weight “ on a recurve . Is this a mistake is this more for compound bow archers?
Bow weight here is the same as Draw Weight or the amount of weight on your fingers at full draw.
Hi Jake Easton recommend weighting the back of the bareshaft with tape to the same weight as the vanes to get even results. What's your view on that, thanks Mike
Not worth the time or effort imho.
I always get better groups from fine tuning then just bare shaft tuning alone.
Great content!
Would all of these same rules apply to bare shaft tuning a compound bow? Assuming one has proper form, and a good centershot
Yes I believe so.
When you bare shaft tune do you lock out the plunger at center shot? If so, what is the best way to lock it out? Thanks in advance.
I do not lock out the plunger. some do and use a match stick. I prefer not to.
FYI, Rino cubes are no longer available on Amazon
Ill find you a replacement
Dear Jake,
I have a question about the location of the arrows during bareshaft tuning.
If my bare and fletched are in a group but off the center in the left or right. What do I do? Sight right? I'm confused because my new club coach said to change the plunger tension.
Are you shooting recurve? If so, just move your sight. My sight is NEVER right over my arrow when looking from behind. Most shops say this because they are familiar with compound, not recurve. If you adjust your plunger tension, your tune will change.
However if you are shooting barebow, then yes adjust the plunger tension to make them go in the middle and keep adjusting the bow weight to maintain the tune you want. Unless you can adjust. your string alignment and like where it would need to be in order to shoot them in the middle.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thank You Much for producing free content and answering answers for us 😁
Can you tell me why i am getting vane strikes on my bow hand?
Shelf or Arrow Rest?
Great video Jake....... can't wait to see the next video of why it lands at an angle. I suspect incorrect release to be a factor.
Check it out, just uploaded it.
Already devoured it lol. Thank you Jake.
Thanks for another great video! Do you ever add any weight to the back of your bareshaft to match the fletched arrows?
Eh not worth the time or effort imho.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery :Hello Jake surprised you say that. Even three small vanes can weigh 6 grains. I shoot barebow with 2 inch vanes here in the UK and always my fletched arrows flew really well but the bareshaft always left indicating too weak (I am left handed) I added insulation tape to my bareshaft where the vanes should be so that both fletched and bareshaft were balanced at exactly the same point along the arrow shaft. Now bareshaft groups with fletched arrows. The extra weight of the tape has made the arrow stiffer. Try it one day just to see if it makes any difference.
Jake, do a video on spine alignment.
Planning on it.
Great video Jake.... Do you use a stiff plunger or plunger with mid range tension when starting bare shaft tuning?
I know where mine needs to be but might as well start in the middle range if I had to make a suggestion to others.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery thanks....so you wouldnt recommend the stiff plunger method?
I prefer the walk back method for setting center shot
Archery Nut you can do that, seems a bit redundant to me since you essentially set your center shot twice. I just don’t find it necessary, potentially someone who in unfamiliar with their setup or tuning potentially that may be needed.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery This is the method I was referring to.
1.Put a stiff plunger in so button doesnt move at all.
2. set arrow centershot directly in line with string.
3. Line the string and sight and arrow up.
4.Shoot bareshaft and fletched at 20 yards minimum.
5. Adjust tiller bolts on bow until bareshafts and fletched land in same group. (if you cant get this to happen, arrows will not work for this current limb poundage).
6. when bareshafts and fletched group together anywhere ( left, right center of target etc) Then replace plunger with normal working plunger.
7. adjust centershot of arrow to just outside of string. Move sight over arrow ( if X10 or barrel shaft, leave arrow centered and sight centered).
8. Adjust plunger tension until arrows hit in center of target.
9. walkback tune from 50 yards to 5 yards. (FIFTY YARDS TO 5 YARDS) no more, no LESS.
10. adjust CENTERSHOT for arrows to hit centered at all distances. ( this is assuming your sight is straight up and down).
Hi Jake,
First of all, nice video. Second, i have a "little problem" with my bareshaft tuning. If i set my sight in the vertical center my bareshafts hit right behind the pin BUT my fletched arrows hit +-0,5m left (RH archer) and i don't know what to do with it. Can you please help me?
Kind regards Yannick
The sight left to right is irrelevant imho tune the bow, get the best group and move to sight to get the arrows in the middle. It has adjustments for a reason, otherwise we would have sights that didn’t move.
Hi Jake, I would like to ask about selecting arrow point. What or how much weight should I use to shoot 70m and 60m distance using 34 poundage or higher.
First I would like to thank you for the time and effort you are putting into these videos. When bareshaft tuning what would cause the bareshaft and the fletched shaft to impact in the same spot but the bareshafts were at a slight angle nock left compared to the fletched shaft for a right handed shooter?
You should wait for the next video.
Super detailed video, but I’d appreciate a very brief explanation of what bareshaft tuning means before getting to thanks and Patreon etc. I’d like to hear and explanation like:
“What is a bare shaft tune and why do you need to do it?” Maybe I’m watching the wrong video as a beginner and trying to figure out what to do. I do however appreciate your detailed videos and look forward to getting better from them!