Im just here to validate my decision to try healing with Holy Paladin. I just love the whole aesthetic and class fantasy. Glad Ill be able to be useful in challenging group content.
I mained rdruid for AGES, but swapped to Hpal when my guild needed one mid-BFA... have NEVER looked back!!! I still love my rdruid because she is my OG baby girl... but hpal is just my absolute fav now.
I like have the 'specialization' personally. It means you might have a slight advantage in bringing something like Mage, Shaman, etc. DPS if you can't cover a specific affliction.
I just can't play specs without an interrupt. Watching dangerous casts go off that you would have interrupted if you had an interrupt yourself = suffering. And because Druid has to shapeshift to use their interrupt that they also have to specifically spec into, I include them as not having an interrupt.
I miss the good old days when Schism > Penance > Solace > Smite spam was enough to do meaningful healing to a party. I don’t like how much of disc’s throughput is centered around mindbender. I think the mindbender window should be more like a powerful healing cd and less like what other healers can do all the time
Yeah except mindbender's uptime is practically 70-85% depending on haste. So i mean, if you have mindbender up for pretty much every damaging mechanics coming out then whats the issue? lol
@@christaylor3604 It’s only like that because of your current tier set bonus and, news flash, that tier set bonus is history. in the war within, you will have 40% uptime on mindbender and you’ll heal like a wet noodle outside of that because so much of your healing is based on mindbender
@@bscheur7412 news flash; that is absolutely incorrect. Clearly you haven’t played beta at all. Quit talking out of your ass. I’ve been healing +12 keys on beta the past 3 weeks and disc priest absolutely has high uptime on mindbender, almost the same as current retail patch with voidreaver hero talents. And not only that, voidreaver is HUGE with how it changes your mindbender into a totally different thing. It also changes your smite into a shadow spell which increases healing because it’s shadow, obviously. By the time mindbender ends there is only 10-15 seconds left on the mindbender CD and that’s WITH phase 1 gear and haste. Yes other healers are currently “better” in that they can do the highest keys easier. But I guarantee you’re a sub 3k player and won’t feel a thing. Get a grip. Learn your class.
So, I'm really glad you mentioned hpally BTW as a top 3 people aren't paying attention to every 1.5 you have a almost 20% party Dr and for pugs that's huge. With am and faith becon (we will be playing that 80% of the keys) but even on the really rough ones that have single target healing we have so much for that as well
I really wish disc was the Blood DK of healers . When they first got reworked as the damage super hard to play healer I thought it was super cool that damage was their thing since it was so hard to play. As the years have gone on tho and now since every healer does damage it’s sad I can just play holy spam holy fire and out dps disc. I feel like disc should just always have the highest healer damage due to the skill ceiling.
Agreed, disc should always have the highest healer damage. That is their whole class fantasy. & they should certainly NEVER have worse damage than Holy.
disc doesnt have a "high" skill ceiling. Its actually a very a simple healer to play. you quit literally just put atonements on everyone, in a group you can easily do this with radiance, then use squid, mind blast into penance, SW:D, smite spam, use penance when its back up, and use SW:D when its back up. thats it, rinse and repeat. It's literally a 3 button rotation and keeping up a single dot lol. Also, what makes disc different is the fact it heals through doing damage. not that it does a lot of damage. if you want disc to have extraordinary damage for a healer, then the healing has to be balanced to not be the greatest and kinda mid. because if disc does extraordinary damage and does top healing compared to other healers then whats the point of playing any other spec aside from disc in m+? No, the proper thing to do is to make its damage good and healing good and just leave it at that.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 No, their class fantasy isnt doing the highest healer damage. Their class fantasy is doing damage which then translates into healing using shadow and holy damage. Disc priest embraces the shadow as much as the light and use both to their will. Thats it. The amount of damage compared to other healers is irrelevant so long as their actual healing itself is good.
Smite extending atonement should be the default for disc. The other part of the set where smite deals double damage I think was a mistake because casting Mind Blast should feel impactful/worth it during squid.
Lot of dungeons have tight hallways where players are forced to be in range. It’s really not too bad. Couple exceptions like ara kara for sure but with how strong echo is for the spec good players can play around it
As someone who plays main disc priest, I will continue to play disc priest, if I leave it because it is not in the meta, I will think that I have done wrong to myself and my main, but one day the day will come when they will understand the value of disc priest.
mained disc in S3 and 4 and was the most fun ive had in healing for a long time, gonna go resto druid for s1 war within but ill be back to disc it def stuck with me.
Was looking forward to play disc priest until i realized i was so used to the tier set and without it disc just feels terrible if you are not having your sweet lil shadow puppy up.
I am very happy that they have for the most part left fistweaving be since season 3 df. Been playing mw since mop and it's been a long brutal road to get back to this point to truly be viable as a healer fistweaving again.
Hey Jak, longtime fan of your videos, just needed to throw this out there. I genuinely appreciate the attempt at optimism for rdruid, but - imho, as a resto one-trick since Cata - I fear you significantly undersold how awful it feels to play our spec right now, especially for the upper end (CE/title-keys). Yes, of course, that content is technically doable, and some of us will muscle through it, but the truth is our spec design has gotten progressively worse throughout dragonflight, our talent tree is a mess, and - maybe the worst sin of this xpac’s launch - our hero talents are just fucking lame. I hate being this negative, because I genuinely love RDruid, but I know I’m not the only one that feels like this. I wish I didn’t have to swap mains - for the first time in over a decade - but it’s so profoundly unfun right now that, until the spec is fixed, I dont see any other option. We’ve given exhaustive feedback on the forums throughout the beta, and it’s gone all but completely ignored. You and the other influential healing voices are the only hope we have of a fix/rework :( anyway, sorry for the rant, your content has been great for a while and even better lately, i just hope you’ll reconsider the “solid” label because, as much as it breaks my heart, right now we’re anything but
Fair enough! I really tried to paint it as the “base” kit of utility/dispels/stops being powerful but the healing element not though I appreciate your perspective and write up! Druids definitely my weakest healer so more insight is always appreciated
Not to mention the button bloat Druid has, even more so now that we lost balance form for our DPS buttons. What's the point of giving us "fluid form" if we don't have a caster form to use it?
As a main holy priest, i really tried Disci but I find it so overwhelming. Like be sure that atonement is on people because I tend to have a tunnel vision and start blasting, only to realise nobody got atonement... Holy is my comfort spe
I played disc in S3 DF the first time and it was the opposite from what you experienced. With holy I have to react and watch group frame to triage instantly, whereas disc I just used the group wide attonment spell (radiance?) and switched to my damage rotation allowing me to lean back for these time windows and dont focus on healthbars. Disc in M+ felt more relaxing than holy, less "panic" mode situations. Raids on the other side is a complete different story.
I agree all except druid. I think it is more that it is a different play style than the others. I also disagree with the talent choices that have been hand picked. I have always been big on playing around the human factor and not numbers...therefore, producing better numbers. lol To each their own on that one. I think they bring utility and keep hp rolling. They also do a fair amount of dps for heals sake. They aren't resto shaman level, but better than solid. They are good. Just not everyone's cup of tea. Thank you, Jack for all the wonderful work you do for us healers out in Azeroth
As the main character of the universe I am here to inform you that you have mistakenly placed resto druid in something other than 'Best tier' so your list is wrong.
the fact you dont have to talent into all of your utility buttons at once is nice eventually u can get into a bit of a rotation of like "okay i only ever have 1 of these 2 at a time so itsa the same keybind"
I’ve played disc main since BFA. Was so excited for more void and shadow things- THATS what drew me in. A healer with this dark energy unlike the others. Then, season 3 tier set happened at the same time as the rework, and it’s almost like we all foresaw the future again 😂. In my opinion, besides from a few little tweaks, Nothing they’ve done has improved discipline and has rather ruined it. I remember when ultimate penitence came out, and the utter excitement my friends had for me. I was not so excited. The talent was a tragic addition compared to what they should have been focusing on; serious issues like mindbender and the weak heals outside of shadow covenant, plus the fact that the CDs such as rapture feel weak, etc etc, talents that have been dead since inception etc. we’ve all felt these things a very long time. When I got on beta, I was really disappointed. I’ll still be playing voidweaver discipline priest, but I expected more. Also I really dislike the rapture changes and the shields are WEAK! Addition to that, it’s not fun at all. The struggle is real.
Did anyone else notice how healing has not changed at all moving into TWW when compared to DF´s healing? Health bars are dancing from close to 100% to close to 10% over and over lol... I believe we'll never see a healing/health pools balance again.
What are you expecting to see? if health bars moved down slowly it would become very boring. in M+ i believe that is the way it *should* be. It should be a constant challenge and thinking about cooldown management. Thats what m+ is for.
A bit off topic, but I'm stuck on Healing challenge for Mage Tower. Which spec and Hero talent do you think is best for that? An answer would be much appreciated
You hit the nail on the head with disc. I love disc priest but playing with burst windows just isn't fun healer gameplay. The spec feels more like a dps spec than a healer.
Tbh, I think oracle disc with "light build", especially with aegis of wrath can have some hidden potential, juicy absorbs and penance pew pew during premonition of insight is really fun 😁
I ended up dropping off mistweaver after playing it all of dragonflight. Not because it's bad in TWW, but because it doesn't really have a niche I feel like. Yeah, you could do a physical heavy group, but why? It's very unlikely I'll end up in that situation. The throughput took some nerfs overall vs when it was strong. Also, make no mistake here -- mistweavers will be doing a ton of enveloping mist hard casting in TWW S1. The damage output of packs/bosses is extreme, and without Chi Harmony into Enveloping + Vivify it doesn't do enough healing output with just fistweaving alone (not even close). It's a ton of setup on the group as a whole before big blasts of unavoidable damage that I just didn't enjoy. It makes things like Peer Into Peace + the soom damage reduction important too, and that's a playstyle I abhor. It felt like playing Disc without power word radiance or a more annoying version of druid. I hate that it got pushed into that direction but mistweaver design has always been a weird mishmash of the two sides where the talent trees are kinda jumbled up too between the two playstyles (fistweaver/caster) and I'm pretty sure that's most of the reason for it. There's no real fistweaving replacement for the high throughput you get from the caster side at the moment when crap really hits the fan (or is about to).
I'm making a crazy gamble this season. I think Resto Shammy will be nerfed (& maybe over-nerfed) within the first few weeks of the season & disc will be buffed (maybe over-buffed). & I think once the players learn the dungeons, disc will shine more.
Shammy getting nerfed still leaves many other very strong options above disc. You'd have to have a significant buff to disc to bring them anywhere near
@@MsPagman Yeah that's true, but I do have a feeling disc will be buffed or maybe even redesigned in 11.0.5. I just like disc & worst case scenario there's still holy which is already decent enough to get KSH I think. Plus let's be real, Ima have one of each healer regardless.
@@MsPagman if anything id add just put your time into learning the more difficult raid and dungeon playstyles of Holy instead of forcing disc if u like both specs lol
Man idk what I’m doing as holy paladin I just feel like my heals outside of gcds are garbage, holy shocks don’t feel powerful eternal flame doesn’t feel powerful, outside of you’re wings holy paladin doesn’t feel strong idk what I’m doing wrong I struggle to keep people alive outside all my gcds
really sad to see priests at bottom of tier, I main disc/hpriest since legion. hope blizz can fix the poison dispels trouble, or adding a interrupt/nice cc. Harsh times. Btw, nice video as always, Jack ♥
Nah there will always be specs at the bottom and specs at the top. In reality the difference might be so minute it doesn’t matter until you push the 1% key. And it is always fun to bring a non meta class and do extremely well.
Why doesn't every healer have universal dispel. Take utility dispell from fps and give universal to healers. Give each tank a utility self dispel (warrior bleed, prot pal/brew disease poison, dk magic, etc.). Everyone's happy ezpz
Disagree, lets not start making all the healers be able to do everything. Thats boring. I like the idea of even an ele shaman/enhance/mage being able to remove a curse etc and other classes being able to remove enrage. Makes people think about their group more when making one and gives the dps something to do other than tunnel vision and stand in fire
Make atonement last 5 seconds longer when applied, add a silence, increase healing through atonement by 25% in dungeons. Bake in s4 tier set to help reduce CD on pet via smite and extend atonements. = maybe viable and competitive with other healers but still B tier
I think instead of continuing to buff disc’s atonement in dungeons, they should consider buffing disc’s damage. Disc priest should not be the lowest dps healer; it’s ridiculous that it is. If this requires nerfing atonement’s healing transfer in raid to even things out, so be it. Disc could seriously have a 40% aura buff to its damage and not be overpowered. It doesn’t bring nearly the utility that other healers do, and it doesn’t have the throughput either.
you're high as a kite if you think those changes would make disc "competitive". It wouldnt make disc competitive, it would downright make disc the best healer in the game by an absolute shit ton and it wouldnt even be close. clearly you havent done any high beta keys with disc. because disc can still hang with the other healers. This tier list is representative of keys at like a +14 lvl and higher. You fools also dont realize how reliant disc is on haste and at the beginning of the xpac we have low haste percentages. once you get gear, disc is still a good healer.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 yeah this dude is smoking something. the 25% increase healing through atonement alone would be insane enough to make them shoot to SSS tier lol
@@bscheur7412 i mean im fine with disc not being insane OVERALL damage but like its an almost entirely single target dumping spec why are we not cranking on priority/bosses lol
I love how over the years they never made a proper solution to the dispel problem. Mass dispel is good->Priest is a god and necessary every group. Mass dispel bad/many curses and poison->priest sucks to play. Well, I was already gonna pass on season 1 because of time constraints but this at least makes me feel better about skipping as a disc main lmao.
Now will we get a video about the hero talents toer list. I know you finished your disc and holy articles. Also thanks for the info in them articles it will help what i should play for hero talents
@@AutomaticJak sadge, at least the light smith part, wish it had something more worth it. Still gonna play Hpal tho. I mean ... Have you seen the sets they get, arathi, raid, and anniversary ... God dayum. Anyway... THANKS for answering!
disagree with the disc rating - maybe traditional voidweaver pet style feels that way but oracle disc with more mastery and ignoring shadow cov and mindbender while going aegis of wrath and weal and woe, harsh discipline and ulti P with CD reduction feels very comfy to play. May have a bit lower dmg but the throughput feels strong for M+ (good spot heals as well with PW Life)
Oracle doesn't have near the throughput as void. I would say its probably the least throughput of all healer hero trees in the game at the moment. One thing that oracle does correctly though is the uptime on atonment. Can pretty much perma keep up atonment which I like. Oracle will struggle on the large start of dungeon lust pulls where huge throughput is needed. Outside of that though the design behind Oracle I like
Can we just salute the fact that Master of Harmony might be the only spec in the game that is still absurdly underperforming and makes no sense at all in terms of design for Mistweaver despite the beta being over? It honestly looks like it's still a placeholder. It's comically undertuned, has no reason to proc from Thunder Focus Tea instead of Expel Harm (or any other spell honestly at that point) and is just really poorly designed. I'm not even asking the hero talent tree to be OP or even good, but just usable would be a good start. It's frustrating to feel like there's no choice for Mistweaver especially when the alternative pushes you to play with at least 1 (and honestly 3) capstone talents by forcing the use of Sheilun's Gift. It feels like Mistweaver is playing with Covenant restrictions while every other spec in the game is playing with hero talents it's just bizarre.
What about healer dps? i feel like sometimes it plays a big part on the meta. Who is kicking the meters? Isn't it holy priest? (and that's without taking power infusion into account)
I can remember times when it was the exact opposite. I think out of all classes, priests saw the least new design in the beta, which bodes well for their prospects of getting attention early in the season.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 counterpoint they just got touched at end of DF and are at the bottom of the prio list for buffs. whether there's a prio list for upcoming class tunings can be debated but logic dictates priest aint getting any love for quite some time
@@earthwormhimmy Nah, I don't think so. In fact I believe I remember hearing them talk about a plan to work on priest in S1, though I don't remember where. A good rule of thumb is that whenever the WoW community is dooming, they're over-dooming.
Wake up, Jak posted his healer tier list
Gm
Idgaf how they accurate they are - I just love tier list season ❤
i just like hearing the thought process behind. Some tier lists are junk, Jak's is NOT!
Im just here to validate my decision to try healing with Holy Paladin. I just love the whole aesthetic and class fantasy. Glad Ill be able to be useful in challenging group content.
After S3 and s4 of DF, playing Hpal in TWW feels so so right.
I mained rdruid for AGES, but swapped to Hpal when my guild needed one mid-BFA... have NEVER looked back!!! I still love my rdruid because she is my OG baby girl... but hpal is just my absolute fav now.
They should make all healers dispel work on poison/disease/curse.
This would put my holy paladin in S tier, agreed.
I like have the 'specialization' personally. It means you might have a slight advantage in bringing something like Mage, Shaman, etc. DPS if you can't cover a specific affliction.
What would be the point to bring different healer classes? You're idea for class fantasy?? No thanks.
@@Lunarae-y7j Yes because the only difference between healers is what they can dispel.
No. Stop making all specs the same!!
Time to use this as an absolute guide for who to accept or decline from my keys (/s)
Pls don’t decline me
You should release a tier list of how many tier lists is the best number of tier lists.
A tier list on which tier list is the best tier list
All this man does is work! We appreciate you Jak
Zug zug
@@AutomaticJak 😂
Excited for MW coming from a melee/tank player. Im comfy in melee but I want to learn to heal! Thanks Jak
Have fun!
I just can't play specs without an interrupt. Watching dangerous casts go off that you would have interrupted if you had an interrupt yourself = suffering. And because Druid has to shapeshift to use their interrupt that they also have to specifically spec into, I include them as not having an interrupt.
Does the Hightmountain Tauren charge count
Watches healer tier list.
- Ends up playing caster Mw monk all expanion anyways, like last many expansions :D
Based
I miss the good old days when Schism > Penance > Solace > Smite spam was enough to do meaningful healing to a party. I don’t like how much of disc’s throughput is centered around mindbender. I think the mindbender window should be more like a powerful healing cd and less like what other healers can do all the time
Yeah except mindbender's uptime is practically 70-85% depending on haste. So i mean, if you have mindbender up for pretty much every damaging mechanics coming out then whats the issue? lol
@@christaylor3604 The issue is that is no longer the case in TWW without the set bonus and less haste
@@christaylor3604 It’s only like that because of your current tier set bonus and, news flash, that tier set bonus is history. in the war within, you will have 40% uptime on mindbender and you’ll heal like a wet noodle outside of that because so much of your healing is based on mindbender
Anyone who says news flash is automatically in the right.
@@bscheur7412 news flash; that is absolutely incorrect. Clearly you haven’t played beta at all. Quit talking out of your ass. I’ve been healing +12 keys on beta the past 3 weeks and disc priest absolutely has high uptime on mindbender, almost the same as current retail patch with voidreaver hero talents. And not only that, voidreaver is HUGE with how it changes your mindbender into a totally different thing. It also changes your smite into a shadow spell which increases healing because it’s shadow, obviously. By the time mindbender ends there is only 10-15 seconds left on the mindbender CD and that’s WITH phase 1 gear and haste. Yes other healers are currently “better” in that they can do the highest keys easier. But I guarantee you’re a sub 3k player and won’t feel a thing. Get a grip. Learn your class.
Great video Jak! Super well informed tier list where it's really clear you tested them all a lot.
Hey, thanks!
"Holding onto your squid for dear life." That was hilarious.
"Now, the foil to Resto Druid..." My English teacher heart is happy.
I always love Jak's random vocab
Weird
Rdruid is really solid. This is just his opinion. Most other streamers are putting rdruid in high A tier.
@@Austin-zg5mo My comment isn't about his assessment-- it's his use of the term "foil." Just play what you enjoy; it's not that serious. 😂
@@CharlieVictor212 Indeed.
Discipline is getting buffed about 10-12% overall m+ healing through atonement.
what gives me hope to play priest, is that jak is maining it
So, I'm really glad you mentioned hpally BTW as a top 3 people aren't paying attention to every 1.5 you have a almost 20% party Dr and for pugs that's huge. With am and faith becon (we will be playing that 80% of the keys) but even on the really rough ones that have single target healing we have so much for that as well
I really wish disc was the Blood DK of healers . When they first got reworked as the damage super hard to play healer I thought it was super cool that damage was their thing since it was so hard to play. As the years have gone on tho and now since every healer does damage it’s sad I can just play holy spam holy fire and out dps disc. I feel like disc should just always have the highest healer damage due to the skill ceiling.
True Story 💪🏻
Agreed, disc should always have the highest healer damage. That is their whole class fantasy. & they should certainly NEVER have worse damage than Holy.
@@dr.zoidberg8666blizz really fucked up disc - so much i will reroll evoker this expansion (thanks for 14 good years as priest)😢
disc doesnt have a "high" skill ceiling. Its actually a very a simple healer to play. you quit literally just put atonements on everyone, in a group you can easily do this with radiance, then use squid, mind blast into penance, SW:D, smite spam, use penance when its back up, and use SW:D when its back up. thats it, rinse and repeat. It's literally a 3 button rotation and keeping up a single dot lol.
Also, what makes disc different is the fact it heals through doing damage. not that it does a lot of damage. if you want disc to have extraordinary damage for a healer, then the healing has to be balanced to not be the greatest and kinda mid. because if disc does extraordinary damage and does top healing compared to other healers then whats the point of playing any other spec aside from disc in m+? No, the proper thing to do is to make its damage good and healing good and just leave it at that.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 No, their class fantasy isnt doing the highest healer damage. Their class fantasy is doing damage which then translates into healing using shadow and holy damage. Disc priest embraces the shadow as much as the light and use both to their will. Thats it. The amount of damage compared to other healers is irrelevant so long as their actual healing itself is good.
Smite extending atonement should be the default for disc. The other part of the set where smite deals double damage I think was a mistake because casting Mind Blast should feel impactful/worth it during squid.
I felt so validated hearing about disc priest, I thought I was horrible - i might just be bad
Same 😢
Not sure about Pres for PUGs. DPS loves to stand in Africa.
Yeah prevoker is not a good healer for pugs
😂😂😂
Lot of dungeons have tight hallways where players are forced to be in range. It’s really not too bad. Couple exceptions like ara kara for sure but with how strong echo is for the spec good players can play around it
@@AutomaticJak agree there
@@naft3RYou rescue them in, when they don't get the message they die.
There it is 🎉 u talked so much about this vid coming soon... I am so excited to watch it! Thank you!!!
You are so welcome!
Priest continuing to be the only healer without a kick. RIP.
rdruids you waste 3 globals so not really ideal
plus you need to be in close melee, fine if you in cat doing dps otherwise utter torture
and Priest is the only healer with fear, mind control and mass dispell... 🤷
@@martin9202monk has mass dispel
@@martin9202 ah yes fear and mind control the things we use constantly in M+ to great levels of use 👀
Man I’m sad about the disc situation. I’ll level my disc, but looks like I’ll either level a Resto, or I’ll switch my ret Pally to holy.
As someone who plays main disc priest, I will continue to play disc priest, if I leave it because it is not in the meta, I will think that I have done wrong to myself and my main, but one day the day will come when they will understand the value of disc priest.
Disc and pres the most fun. But priest has no interrupt. Absolutely unplayable
mained disc in S3 and 4 and was the most fun ive had in healing for a long time, gonna go resto druid for s1 war within but ill be back to disc it def stuck with me.
Keep it strong, played holy paladin in dragonflight s1 and s4, skipped the s2 (rip me they were god tier) s1 was at the top and s4 rock bottom haha
@@kingtut8367 not if you run with competent tank/dps
It’ll get buffed throughout the expansion. Play what you enjoy. Never deviate.
Dat thumbnail tho. _“Uncle Jak Wants YOU”_ (to play Holy Pally).
Jak be steppin' up his game lately! Loving all the high quality content mate. Looking forward to the raid tier list. Bless!
Posted 5 min ago and I already know it’s a banger
Was looking forward to play disc priest until i realized i was so used to the tier set and without it disc just feels terrible if you are not having your sweet lil shadow puppy up.
if you go voidweaver you can still have very high uptime on mindbender.
Disc Priest went from top dog to dog shit 😭
I am very happy that they have for the most part left fistweaving be since season 3 df. Been playing mw since mop and it's been a long brutal road to get back to this point to truly be viable as a healer fistweaving again.
Hey Jak, longtime fan of your videos, just needed to throw this out there.
I genuinely appreciate the attempt at optimism for rdruid, but - imho, as a resto one-trick since Cata - I fear you significantly undersold how awful it feels to play our spec right now, especially for the upper end (CE/title-keys).
Yes, of course, that content is technically doable, and some of us will muscle through it, but the truth is our spec design has gotten progressively worse throughout dragonflight, our talent tree is a mess, and - maybe the worst sin of this xpac’s launch - our hero talents are just fucking lame.
I hate being this negative, because I genuinely love RDruid, but I know I’m not the only one that feels like this. I wish I didn’t have to swap mains - for the first time in over a decade - but it’s so profoundly unfun right now that, until the spec is fixed, I dont see any other option.
We’ve given exhaustive feedback on the forums throughout the beta, and it’s gone all but completely ignored. You and the other influential healing voices are the only hope we have of a fix/rework :(
anyway, sorry for the rant, your content has been great for a while and even better lately, i just hope you’ll reconsider the “solid” label because, as much as it breaks my heart, right now we’re anything but
Fair enough! I really tried to paint it as the “base” kit of utility/dispels/stops being powerful but the healing element not though I appreciate your perspective and write up! Druids definitely my weakest healer so more insight is always appreciated
@@AutomaticJak I totally understand, and your point is an important one too! thanks for listening, and for the response; Keep up the great work :)
Not to mention the button bloat Druid has, even more so now that we lost balance form for our DPS buttons. What's the point of giving us "fluid form" if we don't have a caster form to use it?
imagine if disc could have their pet stall the atonements for the duration
this would be so cool if it just extended the atonement duration during it wtf lol
As a main holy priest, i really tried Disci but I find it so overwhelming. Like be sure that atonement is on people because I tend to have a tunnel vision and start blasting, only to realise nobody got atonement... Holy is my comfort spe
I played disc in S3 DF the first time and it was the opposite from what you experienced. With holy I have to react and watch group frame to triage instantly, whereas disc I just used the group wide attonment spell (radiance?) and switched to my damage rotation allowing me to lean back for these time windows and dont focus on healthbars.
Disc in M+ felt more relaxing than holy, less "panic" mode situations. Raids on the other side is a complete different story.
Voting Jake for president! Superb video! Kudos and good luck in the new expansion!
You too!
I agree all except druid. I think it is more that it is a different play style than the others. I also disagree with the talent choices that have been hand picked. I have always been big on playing around the human factor and not numbers...therefore, producing better numbers. lol To each their own on that one. I think they bring utility and keep hp rolling. They also do a fair amount of dps for heals sake. They aren't resto shaman level, but better than solid. They are good. Just not everyone's cup of tea. Thank you, Jack for all the wonderful work you do for us healers out in Azeroth
As the main character of the universe I am here to inform you that you have mistakenly placed resto druid in something other than 'Best tier' so your list is wrong.
Button Bloat kinda putting me off playing the Resto Shaman
Shaman brought to you by razer naga!
@@maltezzlol pretty much aye
the fact you dont have to talent into all of your utility buttons at once is nice eventually u can get into a bit of a rotation of like "okay i only ever have 1 of these 2 at a time so itsa the same keybind"
U have to make the raid one Jak!!
Perhaps it’s time to make disc a support spec. Like an augmentation evoker.
I’ve played disc main since BFA. Was so excited for more void and shadow things- THATS what drew me in. A healer with this dark energy unlike the others. Then, season 3 tier set happened at the same time as the rework, and it’s almost like we all foresaw the future again 😂. In my opinion, besides from a few little tweaks, Nothing they’ve done has improved discipline and has rather ruined it. I remember when ultimate penitence came out, and the utter excitement my friends had for me. I was not so excited. The talent was a tragic addition compared to what they should have been focusing on; serious issues like mindbender and the weak heals outside of shadow covenant, plus the fact that the CDs such as rapture feel weak, etc etc, talents that have been dead since inception etc. we’ve all felt these things a very long time. When I got on beta, I was really disappointed. I’ll still be playing voidweaver discipline priest, but I expected more. Also I really dislike the rapture changes and the shields are WEAK! Addition to that, it’s not fun at all. The struggle is real.
Did anyone else notice how healing has not changed at all moving into TWW when compared to DF´s healing? Health bars are dancing from close to 100% to close to 10% over and over lol... I believe we'll never see a healing/health pools balance again.
What are you expecting to see? if health bars moved down slowly it would become very boring. in M+ i believe that is the way it *should* be. It should be a constant challenge and thinking about cooldown management. Thats what m+ is for.
nothing puts a smile on my face like seeing my cute resto shaman being awesome again, for one season before they nerf him for the rest of the xpac
"Hey, baby. You wanna hold onto my squid?"
pls make video about healers in raid (tier list).... great video jack
Coming soon!
@@AutomaticJak ty dude you are awesome
Me, a shaman main, used to being C tier for most of the seasons I played : "🦋 is this meta ?”
Noooo I want to play disc priest..
I will in nhc and hc raids, but holy in M+
Good and Solid are interesting choices. They mean the same thing for me.
Solid is actually better for me haha
just think of it as "good" and "fine" imo
Help disc Blizzard! Jak is waiting
Excited to play shaman, haven't touched it since legion and the interrupt feels great as a healer
A bit off topic, but I'm stuck on Healing challenge for Mage Tower. Which spec and Hero talent do you think is best for that? An answer would be much appreciated
I'm most excited for preservation evoker and mistweaver monk. Paladin losing glimmer took a lot of the interest out of it for me personally.
It was a neccesary loss. The class now feels good to play after 10 months of misery.
When every healing class is "solid" at worst, we're in a pretty good spot
You hit the nail on the head with disc. I love disc priest but playing with burst windows just isn't fun healer gameplay. The spec feels more like a dps spec than a healer.
The tier list is good content, the glasses are excellent content.
Tbh, I think oracle disc with "light build", especially with aegis of wrath can have some hidden potential, juicy absorbs and penance pew pew during premonition of insight is really fun 😁
I ended up dropping off mistweaver after playing it all of dragonflight. Not because it's bad in TWW, but because it doesn't really have a niche I feel like. Yeah, you could do a physical heavy group, but why? It's very unlikely I'll end up in that situation. The throughput took some nerfs overall vs when it was strong. Also, make no mistake here -- mistweavers will be doing a ton of enveloping mist hard casting in TWW S1. The damage output of packs/bosses is extreme, and without Chi Harmony into Enveloping + Vivify it doesn't do enough healing output with just fistweaving alone (not even close). It's a ton of setup on the group as a whole before big blasts of unavoidable damage that I just didn't enjoy. It makes things like Peer Into Peace + the soom damage reduction important too, and that's a playstyle I abhor. It felt like playing Disc without power word radiance or a more annoying version of druid.
I hate that it got pushed into that direction but mistweaver design has always been a weird mishmash of the two sides where the talent trees are kinda jumbled up too between the two playstyles (fistweaver/caster) and I'm pretty sure that's most of the reason for it. There's no real fistweaving replacement for the high throughput you get from the caster side at the moment when crap really hits the fan (or is about to).
honestly imagine they just turned essence font into like an aoe HoT applicator with a decent length cooldown instead of getting rid of it lol
as someone who wants to get the title on disc this seems rather hopeless
Thanks, Jak.
I'm making a crazy gamble this season. I think Resto Shammy will be nerfed (& maybe over-nerfed) within the first few weeks of the season & disc will be buffed (maybe over-buffed).
& I think once the players learn the dungeons, disc will shine more.
Shammy getting nerfed still leaves many other very strong options above disc. You'd have to have a significant buff to disc to bring them anywhere near
@@MsPagman Yeah that's true, but I do have a feeling disc will be buffed or maybe even redesigned in 11.0.5.
I just like disc & worst case scenario there's still holy which is already decent enough to get KSH I think. Plus let's be real, Ima have one of each healer regardless.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 everything is decent enough to get KSM/H to be fair! You seem pretty bent on playing priest so I’d say go for it!
@@MsPagman if anything id add just put your time into learning the more difficult raid and dungeon playstyles of Holy instead of forcing disc if u like both specs lol
Hey, what’s going on, Jack? It’s guys.
all healers should have kick and all be able to remove all the same debuffs
Man idk what I’m doing as holy paladin I just feel like my heals outside of gcds are garbage, holy shocks don’t feel powerful eternal flame doesn’t feel powerful, outside of you’re wings holy paladin doesn’t feel strong idk what I’m doing wrong I struggle to keep people alive outside all my gcds
Several tier list put Druid resto not in good place, but I think the number will be adjusted in the launch.
really sad to see priests at bottom of tier, I main disc/hpriest since legion. hope blizz can fix the poison dispels trouble, or adding a interrupt/nice cc. Harsh times. Btw, nice video as always, Jack ♥
Nah there will always be specs at the bottom and specs at the top. In reality the difference might be so minute it doesn’t matter until you push the 1% key. And it is always fun to bring a non meta class and do extremely well.
The real problem to Pres Evokers will be Aug Evokers XD
Why doesn't every healer have universal dispel. Take utility dispell from fps and give universal to healers. Give each tank a utility self dispel (warrior bleed, prot pal/brew disease poison, dk magic, etc.).
Everyone's happy ezpz
Disagree, lets not start making all the healers be able to do everything. Thats boring. I like the idea of even an ele shaman/enhance/mage being able to remove a curse etc and other classes being able to remove enrage. Makes people think about their group more when making one and gives the dps something to do other than tunnel vision and stand in fire
Thank you Jak. o.0 A whole new world....
Make atonement last 5 seconds longer when applied, add a silence, increase healing through atonement by 25% in dungeons. Bake in s4 tier set to help reduce CD on pet via smite and extend atonements.
= maybe viable and competitive with other healers but still B tier
WoW players are so dramatic. All of those changes together would make disc turbo-S tier & you know it lol
I think instead of continuing to buff disc’s atonement in dungeons, they should consider buffing disc’s damage. Disc priest should not be the lowest dps healer; it’s ridiculous that it is. If this requires nerfing atonement’s healing transfer in raid to even things out, so be it. Disc could seriously have a 40% aura buff to its damage and not be overpowered. It doesn’t bring nearly the utility that other healers do, and it doesn’t have the throughput either.
you're high as a kite if you think those changes would make disc "competitive". It wouldnt make disc competitive, it would downright make disc the best healer in the game by an absolute shit ton and it wouldnt even be close. clearly you havent done any high beta keys with disc. because disc can still hang with the other healers. This tier list is representative of keys at like a +14 lvl and higher. You fools also dont realize how reliant disc is on haste and at the beginning of the xpac we have low haste percentages. once you get gear, disc is still a good healer.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 yeah this dude is smoking something. the 25% increase healing through atonement alone would be insane enough to make them shoot to SSS tier lol
@@bscheur7412 i mean im fine with disc not being insane OVERALL damage but like its an almost entirely single target dumping spec why are we not cranking on priority/bosses lol
Thank you as always
So as a new healer wanting to focus on M+ eventually should I focus on learning resto shaman since it has more utility than holy priest?
Jak, next time start with help and finish with Excellent tier 🤣 people will watch entire video this way 🤣
I love how over the years they never made a proper solution to the dispel problem. Mass dispel is good->Priest is a god and necessary every group. Mass dispel bad/many curses and poison->priest sucks to play. Well, I was already gonna pass on season 1 because of time constraints but this at least makes me feel better about skipping as a disc main lmao.
I simply can't figure out why Holy Priest can't have a better kit, a healer that won't be able to dispell 4 out of 8 dungeons is insane.
It’s so close man
It's because PI, fort, and mass dispel exist.
I've never enjoyed hpal so much in my life :3
Now will we get a video about the hero talents toer list. I know you finished your disc and holy articles. Also thanks for the info in them articles it will help what i should play for hero talents
I can't take this list seriously when a priest main says both priest specs are consecutively dead last 😂
Holy crap Paladin changed so much since i played last time. Not sure if i like all this melee dmg doing thing right now
disc priest in HELP section im dead LOL
Hey Jack! As of this week we got a lot of changes. Do you think lightsmith becomes the way to go for Holy paladin? Could holy jump up in the ranking?
Nah not atm
@@AutomaticJak sadge, at least the light smith part, wish it had something more worth it. Still gonna play Hpal tho. I mean ... Have you seen the sets they get, arathi, raid, and anniversary ... God dayum. Anyway... THANKS for answering!
Good video Jak
Ty bestie
Are you going to do a healer tier list for raid?
disagree with the disc rating - maybe traditional voidweaver pet style feels that way but oracle disc with more mastery and ignoring shadow cov and mindbender while going aegis of wrath and weal and woe, harsh discipline and ulti P with CD reduction feels very comfy to play. May have a bit lower dmg but the throughput feels strong for M+ (good spot heals as well with PW Life)
Oracle doesn't have near the throughput as void. I would say its probably the least throughput of all healer hero trees in the game at the moment.
One thing that oracle does correctly though is the uptime on atonment. Can pretty much perma keep up atonment which I like.
Oracle will struggle on the large start of dungeon lust pulls where huge throughput is needed. Outside of that though the design behind Oracle I like
I hate so so much how they made disc a pet class.
Do you do Yoga? because that was a big stretch!
Yeah, me too. I loved the penance shielding style, but can't fit when the party suffer about 60% hp in a second. I miss lich king healing
I will play palading and then evoker. Shammt just if I suck too much. But I'm playing those because of the tier set aesthetic lol
Can we just salute the fact that Master of Harmony might be the only spec in the game that is still absurdly underperforming and makes no sense at all in terms of design for Mistweaver despite the beta being over? It honestly looks like it's still a placeholder. It's comically undertuned, has no reason to proc from Thunder Focus Tea instead of Expel Harm (or any other spell honestly at that point) and is just really poorly designed. I'm not even asking the hero talent tree to be OP or even good, but just usable would be a good start. It's frustrating to feel like there's no choice for Mistweaver especially when the alternative pushes you to play with at least 1 (and honestly 3) capstone talents by forcing the use of Sheilun's Gift.
It feels like Mistweaver is playing with Covenant restrictions while every other spec in the game is playing with hero talents it's just bizarre.
Mistweaver gets a bump to Mythic+ when played by me.
Am sad, was thinking about coming back after leaving mid-legion, checks Disc Priest and Aff-Lock and turns back around.
does disc need help in raid too ? (other than warlock portals and evoker rescue for last spider boss)
What about healer dps? i feel like sometimes it plays a big part on the meta. Who is kicking the meters? Isn't it holy priest? (and that's without taking power infusion into account)
@AutomaticJak ?
Priest is THE most classic healer class so it feels a bit weird that none of the specs can perform very well... Blizzard pliz fix disc
Thanks Jak! For raiding any different?
it's time for priester to become meta again
Scared of the first heroic week where the Excellent healer get hard nerfed
As usual priest.....the only healer without poison dispell lol. Are we adding this to the "but you have power infusion excuse?
I think its a "if your team are dying to a poison - its not a dispel issue"
Hey whats going on jak, this is guys ❤
HeyGuys
@@AutomaticJak you might have to redo the video for disc priest 😜 finally some buffs in m+
Disc being gutted like this is mind boggling…. Like look at shammy and see the fucking difference in their power 🤦🏻♂️
I can remember times when it was the exact opposite. I think out of all classes, priests saw the least new design in the beta, which bodes well for their prospects of getting attention early in the season.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 counterpoint they just got touched at end of DF and are at the bottom of the prio list for buffs. whether there's a prio list for upcoming class tunings can be debated but logic dictates priest aint getting any love for quite some time
@@earthwormhimmy Nah, I don't think so. In fact I believe I remember hearing them talk about a plan to work on priest in S1, though I don't remember where.
A good rule of thumb is that whenever the WoW community is dooming, they're over-dooming.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a resto shaman rank this high
season 1 of dragonflight. they were the best healer in the game by far.
Late in the season yea. Lotta tier lists didn’t rate them high before the season but they got buffs halfway thru
vesper totem was meta one season in SL no?
@@Essjaybee2934 is that the one that would store healing and then burst? Sounds familiar
waiting patiently for raid tier list so i can show my raid i should play evoker :)
Rise of the Shamans!!!