I watercooled an NVME SSD... These results were unexpected!
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2022
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What I got from this video is that Jay should make a "water cooled everything" system since he doesn't recommend it and none of us ever will
I second this motion
Third
4th.
Revenge of the 5th. Do it meow!
Three loop system :
1 - CPU
2 - GPU(s)
3 - RAM and NVME
Sit back with your favorite adult beverage and watch Jay's brain come apart running hard tubing - lol
Just watched this video. I'm a former SSD FW engineer and currently do lots of storage device testing. What you're seeing with the low writes is because you filled up the SLC write cache. You should look at graphs of the bandwidth over time, you can add HWInfo and HWMonitor parameters into MSI Afterburner or pickup a testing utility.
And the DRAM in an SSD is predominantly used for the FTL mapping table, there's very little space allocated for caching.
I'd recommend running windows 10's defrag between tests to trim the drive, then wait a few minutes for the SSD to complete it's cleaning. Otherwise it's gonna runout of it's write cache and your testing cache instead of temp effects. Think this is a good idea?
@@DarkAlaranth Cliff is a former Star Ship Destroyer, Forward Warp engineer, Keiran. He doesn't have time for replies... Also, SSDs are fast, but c'mon. We all know we haven't reached FTL warp yet
@@DarkAlaranth defragging an ssd is not a good idea
@@YY15UPC Defrag in Windows is safe. It only trims, rather than reallocates data.
would you recommend any sort of heatsink for pcie5 or 4 gen drives?
Anvil's Storage Utility has an endurance test mode that runs indefinitely. He created it back in the earlier days to see how many writes different SSDs could take before failure.
I was just about to say the same thing. Exactly!
You also have to be careful about write cache on these drives distorting your readings. For instance, if the test is writing less than the size of the units write cache, you may get numbers that are not indicative of normal long-term operation for the drive. So if you want to test how temps affect the read / write speed of the drives, just make sure you remove all other possible variables first.
Thanks for your videos! Always look forward to them.
The reason for the varying of write speed is the SLC cache filling out. 980 pro is a TLC drive, which means there three bits stored per memory cell. With SLC cache, data is written only 1 bit per cell until all the cells run out. During this the speed is extremely fast. Once you start writing multiple bits per cell the write speeds are slowed down significantly.
The SLC cache, unfortunately, is the Achille's heel of most M.2 SSD's. I'm wondering though, is there an easy/usable/quick way to flush the SSD's write cache so that we can (hopefully quickly) get back to full speed?
@@ChrisM541 Yeah, don't write 200 GB all in one go. The cache rebuilds itself during periods of inactivity. The time it takes varies per drive but usually isn't too long (
@Pyro-Lyro :)
@Pyro-Lyro Do NOT defrag an SSD. M.2 or SATA. All it does is waste write cycles and will provide no performance boost whatsoever. Windows doesn't even give you the option to do it.
@@ChrisM541 No, there is nothing you can do to flush the SLC write cache, the drive's controller will empty the SLC cache as it can in the background as long as the drive has enough free space. The best you can do is make sure you don't overfill your drive and make sure your drive and OS are using TRIM correctly.
Fun fact, if the nand gets cool enough it's speed goes down a tad, though longevity does go up. There actually is an optimal temp for speed in the Nand. The controller you want as cool as possible like most other IC's.
source? (genuinely interested)
@@AKAtheA Gamers Nexus has said this over and over and over again.
@@AKAtheA Tech Jesus...AKA Steve at gamers nexus.
@@AKAtheA I really don't recall exactly. This was discussed several years ago and I recall I read it in some analysis and related technical document. Though I think a few you-tubers have mentioned it. I'll do a quick check and see what I can find.
@@AKAtheA There is multiple videos and posts about it on the internet from different people regarding this phenomenon. The big problem is the controllers are only getting faster and in turn hotter which leads to the throttling and performance issues. So actively cooling the controller without activley cooling the NAND is the best overall for the SSD in terms of performance and longevity.
techquickie (Is COOLING Your SSD A MISTAKE?) has a good video about it with advice gained from Intel and how the science works behind it.
TL:DR Cool the controller as much as possible with a little cooling on the nand is the best way to do it.
Interesting results !! Thanks for the awesome video Jay & company !!
For testing try out HardDisk Sentinel PRO. You can do various surface tests ("write only" too), with user defined data, patterns, block-range (or whole disk), and times (up to 9999). Also great for Smart reading and logging.
I just wanted to say the same. HDS or ATTO. HDS surface test works closer to block level. ATTO is file level.
I would like to see the "all watercooled" build but without monoblock. Separat blocks for SSD, RAM, CPU, power supply, GPU, VRMs.....
Same
All watercooled but no fan, that would be awesome! Gonna need a huge rad though.
@@wherearemytesticles how u gonna cool rad without fan when fan is the core component for every type of cooling
@@suryakisku3895 passive cooling
@@zkilla4611 passive cooling altogether is different kind of cooling if u r water cooling u will be needing fans to help remove heat from rad
OG Title, "I watercooled and NVME SSD... These results were unexpected!"
forever saved in internet history
@Coolio_Wolfus an
But it should be "a" SSD... Not "an" SSD..
- Grammar Police 2022
@@emmaorion I think it's still an, since S makes a vowel sound (es).
@@emmaorion You say 'an' before a vowel sound. "ess-ess-dee" begins with the vowel sound "ess".
- BSc English Language Studies, Cambridge University 2009
To saturate and stress the NVME you could use a program called HDTune (The PRO version) in it, if a drive is completely wiped, (can use windows tool diskpart to do it) you can do a write test (on the benchmark tab) which is already very demanding, but if you go to file -> options -> benchmark and select full test (something along those lines I'm writing from memory) you will be doing a even more demanding test, this is the way I have found to stress test nvme drives as much as possible although when the test ends you still have to start it again but from my experience it takes a lot longer then crystaldisk, I hope this helps you guys!
Edit: Don't forget to select the right drive you wanna test, on the drop down menu
iometer is free, but a little clunky
My go to for filesystem benchmarking/stressing are IOR and MDTEST. Both are MPI based tests. IOR specifically drills on read and write performance. MDTEST is designed to hammer on the metadata performance. Usually these are done against large networked filesystems, but they can be run against a local filesystem as well. Just be careful not to fill your OS drive by accident.
Ive always appreciated Jay taking us along for the ride as he learns. Some of the other channels spoil the fun knowing everything about it.
I don't remember having seen any SSD stress tests tbh. One thing you could do, especially with Phil, is that you can write a small shell script or a batch script that does it for you, like read a 4 GB file then copy it then delete it then do the whole thing again while measuring speed, latency, etc. I do not think it would be too complicated. Maybe even a fun video idea?
Awesome video man I said awhile back on twitter I love the myth buster style video’s!!!!!love to see you do stuff to your hardware that I can’t do in fear of breaking parts and not having replacements… hope these videos do well cause I dig them!!!!!!
Glad you made this video. I have been wondering my NVMe's temps and keep forgetting to look. Mine is using the stock x470 Taichi MB heatsink and it's sitting (idle) at 48-50C. It's in a 5000D Airflow, and a junky GPU (for now) so it's not getting much heat off that even when gaming.
In Windows, "cipher /w:c:\" on the command prompt will overwrite/encrypt all unused disk space on the C drive. It's for rendering data on free space irrecoverable, and also causes 100% disk usage.
Pretty sure that doesn't work on SSDs though.
@@Mr.Morden Just tested this on a 970 Evo Plus. Temperature went from 63°C to 83°C.
@@saucyscone Remember that SSDs don't write to the block containing the information to be wiped. It merely marks the block as blank and then writes to the next most unused block. That's wear leveling. Only mechanical drives will respond to commands to overwrite the same block. SSDs require a special tool from the manufacturer to wipe, and then the whole drive will be cleared, not just free space. There are also third party tools that do it, and tools on Linux. There are some drives that support secure erasure but the drive controller has to support it and you need software that uses that specific feature.
@@Mr.Morden It's not wiping the drive though, it's running an encryption algorithm over the current data in the drive.
@@Bonekinz As I said, that's not how a SSD functions, that's only possible on mechanical drives. The SSD file operations occur at the OS level, this method also kills lifetime write durability on the drive and does not wipe anything in the filename table either. Wipe operations function at a low direct hardware level and they can only wipe an entire drive securely. SSDs have no way to correlate the physical location of a file on a SSD with the NTFS/EXT etc filesystem entry. Slack space within each block is also not addressable. Using these tools only kills the lifetime of the drive and does not result in a complete wipe.
I've only been using nvme 2 years. I think the highest I've seen is 70s in a Coffee Lake i9 laptop, loves to run hot. My other Samsung 970 evo, and now 980 Pro have never got beyond the 60 C range.
my 980 pro was hitting 60-65. used a pci-e riser on my gpu, and the temps dropped to 45-50. I think the M.2 junction would be better somewhere else. But hey, if we can liquid cool it!
@@PeteJonesViciousKid 😂 truth
@@PeteJonesViciousKid I always wondered why they put a drive there. I have never really watchd temps on my NMVe drives, though.
Thank you for all your effort, very informative
Great video. I loved the work you put into it.
Fun fact: NAND flash has it's operating temperature little bit higher than anyone would expect. But I heard that Intel and Micron's 3DXPoint, as in older Intel's 900 and 905 SSDs has to heat up every single cell to 400°C for write. I purposefully mention cell, as during the write more than one bit is affected (between 9 and 16 if what I heard is accurate). This is why it's so power hungry.
Damn, Imagine cooking on a pile of the mentioned ssds when they reach 400c Lol
@@user-gu4tr7wp5k LOL give him a break ✌
Funnily enough, NAND prefers to be a bit warmer, especially for good data longevity. Excessive cooling does your SSD no favours.
Running things outside of their operating temp can be destructive, this also goes for running things cold. not everything works better with excessive cooling. Car engines and transmissions wear far quicker when they are cold.
I purchased a heatsink for my nvme ssd in the server as it was sitting at like 45c and was spiking to something like 60c+. Despite the server being a 1ru with 7 fans giving plenty of air flow over the drive. I got the heatsink to stop those heat spikes. The drive sits at like 32c and peaks at like 40c. But it only gets that hot after copying over 100gb to it. Server kept throwing alerts at me.
@@Ziogref Probably should've just disabled the server alerts regarding the SSD, but whatever, as long as it works.
Most consumer SSDs start throttling somewhere upwards of 70°C (on the controller), not sure about server SSDs.
@@Steamrick I wish it just throttled, the boot drive in my laptop causes a bsod with no meaningful error code and no crash logs when it goes over 70, which was a pain in the ass to troubleshoot.
It's lowers the lifespan. These misconceptions are annoying. A cooled one will survive way way longer than a throttling one. 70c is worse than 40c.
Only super low degrees can be a bit bad. But heat is still worse
Maybe H2testw will work. It was originally designed to test USB sticks and to identify counterfeit sticks that were labeled with higher capacity than they really are, so it tries to write to the stick/disk until it's full.
It seems to work for disk drives as well, so probably also for NVMes.
You just have to keep in mind that depending on the type of flash memory used, write speed might drastically reduce after a certain amount of used space.
To be honest, I loved this video😅
Investigation of such things and searching for pros and cons is one of the thing why I am watching these videos. coz I can't check it by myself.
Thanks!
Now you have to do what you said: Do a whole water-cooled system
with time we'll get to watercool an usb stick.
Very useful set of tests... Thanks
At 7:11
Back in the day, a program called "Eraser"was used to erase hard drives. It had the ability to set a 32 loop of various data in order to ensure the data was erased. I never used that because it took hours. If you filled your hard drive with various data, (You are a UA-camr with gigabytes of video data laying around, you can find data to just fill an SSD), then set it to its Max and wait it will fill it with all zeros all ones several times and mixed with various zeros and ones and it will take a while....no matter how fast the drive is.
There's a reason there's no software out there to stress test an SSD; stressing an SSD legitimately shortens its lifespan. SSD's have a finite number of reads and writes. Debaurer has great vid on SSD life expectancy relating to new cripto types. Its a real concern and shouldnt really be attempted if you actually want to use the SSD afterwards
Yeah but doesn't really apply to Jay or any techtubers whose job is to push things to their limit and see what happens then report the results to us.
Average users definitely shouldn't be stressing their drives to see how hot they get, but videos serve the purposes of demonstration and testing so we don't have to :P
Yeah but that's the same for gpus and cpus besides yhe fact they can cost thousands of dollars and an ssd can be under $100
Who better to have that type of program than the UA-camrs that don't always plan on using the products they get sent. I think someone at LTT wrote one up for one of their videos.
@@Adroit1911 I remember that one, the $20 SSD video. I believe it was Anthony, I recall some Linux wizardry
Every drive has a finite number of everything. SSDs just have a pretty well defined limit on writes. You won't kill them with a hand full of stress tests tho, even most consumer drives nowadays are rated at 100s to 1000s of TBW. The MP600 has 1.6 PBW, meaning you'd have to *fully* write it 1600 times to even get close to the end of the lifespan. So you'd have to constantly write a 1TB MP600 for multiple weeks before you'd get anywhere near the end of it's lifespan.
It's good to see that even the big UA-cam channels occasionally make an editing error, not just me. 12:53, 13:00. BTW, any chance of testing some of the fan-equipped NVMe cooler, like the "Titanium Micro TMHSFM3 Nitro M.2 NVME 2280 Heatsink Dual Cooler with 30mm PWM Fan"?
yeah i'm surprised though. i really wouldn't expect a channel that is so big to make those mistakes. I guess this is partly why Linus has like 50 employees lol
@@techboy95 channel is 3+1, big only in sub/views numbers..
My testing on gen 3.0 and 4.0 drives shows no need for a fan on nvme as long as you have good thermal pads, a decent heatsink (pure copper is best), and a little airflow (minimal, but not stagnant air pocket in case).
I tested many nvme and many heatsinks.
Jay.exe probably got caught in a brief loop again.
Another well made and informative video that's going to save me money in my next build. Thank you.
Great video!
I started looking at the temps of my Intel 670p Series 2 TB NVMe SSD only because someone referred me to an article by Patrick from STH and I was getting prepared to deploy said NVMe SSD in the MinisForum HX90.
I ended up using a EK heatsink (not the waterblock), and that performed took it down from the projected 73 C max temp (as reported by STH) down to ~45 C (based on my initial CFD analyses/simulations/projections).
(That was under peak load/max temps. At idle, it was a lot lower than that, somewhere around the mid 30 C range, IIRC.)
Sidebar: SOME motherboards only have ONE of the included M.2 NVMe plates for ONE of the drives, even if the motherboard has three M.2 slots. (e.g. both my Asus Z690 Prime-P D4, and my Asus X570 TUF Gaming Pro WiFi motherboards are like that).
And in the MinisForum HX90, if you order it barebones, it doesn't come with one. (Not sure if it would come with one even if you ordered it with a NVMe SSD drive.)
re: "thermal mass"
The heatsink, I would think, should have more "thermal mass" because you literally should have a bigger hunk of metal with the heatsink than you would with just that plate.
But as the data shows though, it would appear that the flat plate is better for natural, convective cooling rather than forced convection.
re: application of the motherboard included plate or heatsink
Also from the CFD simulations that I performed, if you applied the heatsink over top of the sticker so as to not to void your warranty, the max temps would be, I think it was something like 2-3 C higher than if you took the sticker off said NVMe SSD. (In my physical tests in the HX90, I kept the sticker on, so as to not void said warranty.)
So that will also be another consideration as well.
Great video though!
re: stress testing your NVMe SSD tool
You might want to try the Flexible I/O tester (fio) tool.
I don't think that it has a pretty GUI like CrystalDiskMark, but it would be a lot more potent than CrystalDiskMark for stress testing the drive for max temps.
You might even have been able to get away with just using `dd` if you were just writing a gigantic, sequential file (which you can use by enabling Windows Subsystem for Linux in Windows 10) and installing pretty much ANY Linux distro just to be able to get access to `dd`.
Again, doesn't have a pretty GUI like CrystalDiskMark, but it might serve this purpose, better.
1) I have always believed, that it is the controller chip you need to cool down, rather than the memory chips.
2) To test a SSD based drive, try copy/paste from a similar sized drive, using HWINFO 64 to record results. I guess you could have similar results if you did a full backup and then a restore to test.
Yeah memory in SSD's always runs warm... it's the controllers that burn!
One could write a shell script to do this in linux. It would just write over and over to the drive logging the time it took to write, time it took to read, and the temp before/after, flushing cache after every one. I have no idea if linux under windows subsystem has that kind of direct drive access though, to do the same there.
Yep, dd and sync are your friend. On a large write you can hit dd with a USR1 interrupt to get ongoing stats.
Really interesting and useful! Clearly, a vaned heatsink is - and I think it's obvious why - superior to a flat one, as long as there's good airflow. No point (yet) in using watercooling - the benefit doesn't (yet) outweigh the hassles.
"Our open air test bench without a fan blowing on it is kinda the worst case scenario here and its still not overheating" thought I was going crazy 🤣 @ 12:53
Nice to see some validation that cooling is largely unnecessary on nvme drives. Suggestion, refrigerate it and show when write speeds throttle at low temperatures.
I agree, and you probably won't find yourself in a scenario of constantly writing to your drive over and over again very often. One thing to keep in mind though is that in a "real" build you might have considerably higher ambient temperatures depending on your case.
NOT EXACTLY , I have had 2 SSD's NVME Burn out just playing a few of the more modern games. Got 2 SSD coolers one with fan and temp gauge other just heat sink... The ssd without my heatsink and fan just heatsink only .. will over heat when playing certain Titles. As i have fried a couple already I refuse to use an SSD and Game without a cooler. IT IS NO JOKE!
@@Bryanhaproff Either you had some lowest quality junk SSD or your SSD's were faulty, had all of my games on SSD's for about close to 3 years now. Currently i have 3 SSD's in my pc and i have never needed to replace or switch any of them. One of them is about 5 years old and its still perfectly working
@@legendaryjimbob7685 No Man's Sky PC .. That game in particular and Satisfactory on Steam Will over heat your drives. I've not had a single SSD make the cut without a heatsink. Skyrim. Fine though, game is great on SSD
@@legendaryjimbob7685 Oh WD BLACK is not a bottom tier SSD
Try using an old Samsung 960 Pro (512GB). Even with a Heatspreader AND a Fan blowing on it, mine still gets over 60°C. Without Heatspreader and Fan it throttles at over 90°C.
Those Temps don't come from benching it, it is that hot just by being my bootdrive...
Many M.2 are also used on ITX-Boards and mounted to the Backside...those cook quite nicely as well in CPU Heatsoup^^
Yeah I am sitting here with a 960 just idling and it's over 50c with an EK heatsink.
I love these types of video's! Makes my choice of motherboard worth it. I have a ASRock X570 Taichi Razer edition and my Gen4 SSD runs a nice 35º at desktop and 55º under load
I've got a 970 Evo that throttled due to thermals during writes because of how the motherboard's M.2 slot was laid out. The motherboard designer, for some reason, decided the best place to put an M.2 drive, with no cover, was directly under the primary GPU's slot. Soon afterwards I changed the motherboard to one were the M.2 slot is above the GPU slot and had a heatsink cover and it dropped down to 78C full tilt.
So the conclusion is that even without a heatsink, it's not running hot enough to actually slow down enough too make any difference in real world gaming situations. So these coolers are just a waste of money.
The way they are marketed, absolutely. But it could be useful for use on an NVME used as a video editing drive for 4k 60 fps footage where the drive is being read/written to almost 24/7.
I feel like I have been seeing way more failures of loops on Reddit time for another how to watercool video. Show how to mix and test the pH of liquids.
For longer storage tests try the Microsoft Tool DISKSPD it's for testing storage via cli on servers and if I remember right Chrystal disk mark uses it on its core.
The tools allows for long tests which you usually have to do to on enterprise grade storage to fill up all the caches
The Varying Write Speed is because of 4k file writing, it does normal, 2k and 4k in sequence.
I would have done the test while cloning a drive. 2 tb to 2 that is a real worst case scenario.
When you are so early the title is wrong 😂
The black magic hard drive test might be a good idea for this testing as it just does a constant read write hammering of the drive from when you hit test until you tell it to stop
12:54 tripped me out when. Heard the same sound bit 2x in a row.
I foresee motherboard manufacturers integrating raised NVME SSD slots to accommodate cooling blocks on both the top and bottom for drives with storage chips on both sides. But as you said, it leaves more room for failure with added cooling blocks within a cooling system. Sooner or later we're gonna reach a point where we'll need even more cooling to cool the cooling system!
I was in a micro center discord and everybody was telling me that PCI4 isn't worth it and I was trying to tell them that makes no sense. I left that group.
Depends on what you're going, but it's going to be less true going into the future as consoles have it, and game engines intend to take advantage.
Love all your videos, always so helpful inspired me to build my own pc finally and make the switch from console
You might want to try using HdSentinel for this, It's not for running the test, but it can give you a lot of details for the hard drive or ssd, plus a graphic showing you the temperatures.
Jay: "I change drives kind of a lot..."
Yeah, you're the only one, I've had the same NVME for like 3+ years now.
from what i've seen throughout the years since i've been using ssd's, cache, capacity, number of nands on a drive, how full/empty it is, and how efficient the controller is at spreading the data over the nands themselves (like not bunching it all on one chip), is what impacts speed (the write speed that is, read is not affected). if a drive has 4 nands and 1 is full (256 x 4), the write speed will drop.
i have a cheapo china made nvme that has 3500 read/3300 write, and if it has above 260 gb written on it, write speed drops by 25% ... because most likely the controller is bad at managing the spread of data on the chips, and it just bunches it together on the first one.
temps really don't matter that much, unless you have a larger drive and you are moving hundreds of gigs. and even then ... i mean, come on .... it takes seconds to move hundreds ...
might be worth seeing if there's a firmware update that addresses that issue. i'd check the drive manufacturer first then the controller chip's OEM if that falls short.
heck, it might even be your OS not realising it's an ssd cause your bios is all "nah brah das a spinny boi" so double checking that + TRIM being enabled for a sanity check could be a shout
Great video, practical applications.
I got 3 of the EK heat sinks for my new build, for two reasons:
1: Not entirely confident in the two slower drives being left uncovered, since the mobo only came with one SSD plate that only fits in 2 of 3 M.2 positions.
2: I think the nickel fins fill out the board's appearance a lot better than the SSDs on their own would.
I have a somewhat long history dealing with HDD going back to the mid 90's. In my experience, they don't do well with temps above 35C. 40C is the limit for more recent drives, as I still use them for storage due to cost issues and data volume. I wonder if these NVMe drives degrade over time due to these sorts of temps. I would like to see a controlled test using the different scenarios you have used above to see the long term effects. I realize this is a big ask due to both the time frame like involved and the end result being somewhat like you have done here today. TY.
NVMe are rated at total bytes written (TBW), and mostly, the more expensive drives have higher TBW.
Sustained writes on smaller and cheaper drives will induce failures faster than larger and/orore expensive drives.
Anything using QLC will wear out faster than TLC.
Bottom line, writes will likely kill a drive before hear will, unless the NVMe is running 70 C or hotter.
@@JasonW. I am well aware of all of this. The question I posed is different. As is well known, electronics work best in a given temperature range. I am asking as the effect of high heat on NVMe over time and use. I am quite familiar with the effects of these on HDD. Too much and they die. Cool at about 30C and they last quite a bit longer, in my experience between 5 and 10 years under daily use.
7:20 I wanted to do some temps tests on my NMVEs, so I was uninstalling and reinstalling games on Steam. That got temps up pretty good, even only at 1GB/S.
I built a second PC with a $150 11600k from Micro Center and an ASUS Prime z590M(which has no "heatsinks"). I wanted to test it all out and realized my 1TB Inland Performance (gen 4x4) hit 80C. So I went back to Micro Center and bought some low pro sinks (since the bigger ones can't fit) and it dropped the temp down to 50C.
I got that same microcenter inland m.2 but in 512gb, used the stock heatsink plate that came with my asus x470 mobo for the boot drive, but put the microconnections heatsink on the 2nd m.2 512gb, its my game drive, it only runs 2 degrees hotter
Hello Jay,
You are the main culprit in building a water-cooled PC. And my best teacher regarding water-cooling until today.
I am an usual old (54) Romanian guy but I still love to upgrade and build PC"s.
In my water-cooled system I have a Samsung NvMe SSD, and it never worked according to specs. until I cover it with a EK heat-sink.
Let me share my two cents: SSD to cool - bad, SSD to hot - bad. There is a middle spot temperature and they will work fine.
i've had issues with my NVME due to heat issues. just random OS issues. turns out that the fan for the nvme cooling system was looking for the temp of something that doesn't exist. so i adjusted the fan curve that was close to the NVME and is more sensitive and haven't had any issues since. also the write speed flucations may be os/drive optimizations where the files are cached after the first write.
Isn't it so, that NAND cells have a recommended operating temperature of about 40°C?
Cooling it to much might shorten the liefetime of the cells.
So these coolers sometimes are designed to cool not to much, so the heat from the controller heats up the NAND chips a bit.
1 thing you shouldnt forget, when looping this in with your GPU and CPU, chances are you will make you SSD run HOTTER than having it just cooled by the motherboard plates!
I love this kind of videos. Testing stuff without knowing how it will go in advance. ^^
Jay - a couple of things, 1 about this vid & 1 about an older 1.
This vid - for stressing an NVME, if HWInfo can monitor throughput/performance, & not just temps, then you could use it for that, & make some sort of batch script to repeatedly write, delete, write again to the drive as many times as needed.
Older vid - so I happened to watch that vid where you were modding a plastic model of an engine into a case, & saw the way you went about bending the acrylic (or whatever type of plastic it was, I forget exactly). If you wanted to do stuff like that more often, you could get (or maybe even make your own) acrylic bending machine. If you're not familiar, they do them on Amazon.
this brings a new meaning to 'water cooled pc'
Should have included runs with the GPU under load, curious to see temps when the GPU is blowing hot air onto the MOBO.
i have exactly this issue when gaming, boot drive is right above the gpu back plate which gets rather hot.. the secondary drive is right where the gpu exhausts its dirty air...
I was thinking the same thing! Most motherboards I've seen have the m.2 boot drive above the gpu. but 2,3 slot mb's have them essentially parallel-underneath gpu. Feel like it would be the same as the hair dryer method lol
I found that a good way to "stresstest" an ssd is actually to run a backup on the OS. Depending how big your C drive is, it will definitely take longer than running crystaldiskmark 9 times. Im currently using macrium reflect and the ssd goes up to 100% load during backup. 60c (19c ambient) during load with EK heatsink ontop of 970 evo plus.
Cool... I loved the test and just more info to learn from.
Funny coincidental moment at 18:22 when Jay blows on the drive to cool it down after having hit it with the heat gun and the RGB on the mobo *just happens* to cycle red --> orange --> yellow, so it looks like blowing on campfire ashes, which blowing on makes hotter xD
A few years back I said I'd never build a complicated hardline custom loop again.
Was building a complex custom hardline water loop with expensive distro plate and managed to destroy it when I slipped getting a tube off and snapped the fitting out of the plexi.
I've a simple soft tube setup running now that was zero headaches to get running.
Thanks, Jay!
I was looking forward to water-cooled my NVME, but thanks to your review. It saves me money from buying one.
Good to know that it aint necessary to have any more cooling than maybe a fan from the side of the chassi. Important experiment and an interesting aproach with the heatgun. Throttle comes at about 85 degrees i see
On Windows you can use the Cipher comand with the overwrite option.
cipher /w:D:\
For a drive mounted on D. It will write all 0s, all 1s and then random numbers on UNUSED space.
So, you could fill up the drive beforehand and test on the unused space.
I got two bequiet m.2 heatsinks just for the looks. My wd sn550 actually increased from 39c to 41/42c during idle, but that also was directly under my gpu.
16:20 "watercool everything"
I've tossed around the idea in my head of a theme build with that in mind. Half red, half blue flex tubing everywhere. The pump/reservoir would have a fake heart covering it with the tubing going in and out through the heart valves. Even better if I could do it in a case similar to the demon case from the Your Pretty Face is Going to Hell series.
I've got a Sabrent Rocket 4.0 500GB for my OS. Crystal Disk Info shows temps stay under 50C when running read/write tests via Crystal Disk Mark. She came with a pretty beefy heatsink with copper tubing.
Slightly different scenario, but I have encountered thermal throttling when using an M.2 SSD within a USB-C Enclosure plugged into a MacBook before.
However, this was mainly when I put it under huge load... (Encrypting/Decrypting the entire drive, formatting etc).
Great video. I love this type of video. My 1tb Samsung 970 evo did get hot enough to make the text on the label distorted but the drive never seemed to throttle or slow down that I could detect or notice.
Its always a small victory to see the video before it's renamed. I will forever remember you water-cooled and nvme for about 3 hours
Very good by the way, always wondered. Had no issues just using thermal pads.
Thank you hitting this topic.
Thanks for the info.
This was most def a interesting video, was not expecting the results from all the test.
No problems with ones on 4.0 compiling huge C++ files. Manufacturers test with covers in layout and design of the module. FET junctions work more on voltage (potential) transfer instead of current. Storage is a charge, so refresh uses current. Current is work (e.g. electron/hole movement) and produces heat. Operating at lower temperatures may show longer life, as storage cells are disabled over 5 - 10 years in consumer grades. Covers can provide good RF shielding in a dirty localized RF field. Now, CPU/GPUs are another matter.
Thanks for the ''further away point of view'' ! I was wondering what was the brand of your test bench. Ordered one lol
18:01 That’s what we call “branding”, Jay XD
That mythbusters approach is the best, i hope you do this on future tests as well. Push these stuff to its limit!
Hey Jay, you could also compare your results by running a performance test to the drive with Samsung Magician also.
I got one of those small EK nvme heatsinks, and it lowered my idle temps with like 9-10c. Wasn't an issue, but I use two nvme's and one of them ran cooler since the motherboard had a heatsink on that slot but not the other. So the temp difference urked me, I didn't have high hopes for those tiny heatsinks but I was pleasantly surprised. Plus it looks a little nicer now... :)
12:55 you can say that again... oh wait you did at 13:02... 😂
One quick production suggestion -- check out a stabilizer or gimbal for your video camera. The camera movements are sometimes slightly jerky and it can be really noticeable at times. Also monitor screen shots don't appear to be white balanced (sorry I used to do some post production work) :) I do like the background of your setup with the multi colored dim lights. That's a really nice touch.
Anyway, thanks as always!
If you set your video card to not stop its fans at idle, wouldn't they help cool the SSD (at least in your case)? Obviously that would depend on where the SSD is located on each motherboard.
You the Man JayZ T
SSD manufacturers’ utilities (e.g. Samsung Magician, ADATA SSD Toolbox, etc.) will also give temps, often on regular HDDs too.
I've seen ATTO give pretty in-depth tests for drives but obviously not still SSD-specific. Might be worth a try. I think AIDA 64 also has some disk stressing tools.
I've had success with plain old air since upgrading my ASRock Z97 Extreme6 (from 2013-14), with 2 NVMe SSD's, big for it's day & earned a Tom's Hardware Product of the Year badge. Never have used either of the M.2 slots (one 3.0 x4 at 32Gbps max & another at 10Gbps), rather used a $12 Sintech PCIe adapter found on Amazon.
Installed my first NVMe, the 1st Samsung retail model 512GB 950 Pro. With fan under load runs 15-16 degrees less than with fan not installed, so certainly worth the $12. Now it's cooling in the same PC a 512GB Samsung 970 Pro, their last model NVMe with true MLC (2-bit) technology. And for now, the smallest fan in the build, believe 50x50x15, original was only 10 thick. That's the only and inexpensive needed upgrade on adapter, a fan with double ball bearings, as the rifle one included begins squealing in less than 2 months at boot.
So this is why it's not a great idea not to place an NVMe SSD underneath a large GPU. Give it some airflow (or love), just as with the rest of components, won't throttle when needed the most!
Blackmagic Disk Speed Test will do what you want. Tests up to 10TB in size and I'm fairly sure it just sits there and loops continuously until you tell it to stop. I'm too paranoid to actually let it do more than a few loops, so I've never actually tested if it will loop forever, but that's the feeling I get from the UI. The primary use is to show you which video formats your storage is capable of reading/writing. Currently tests for resolutions up to 12K/60, so you'll still have to monitor your temps with other software, but at least you'll really be putting the SSD through the wringer like you want.
Every time Jay says "Nine times", I think of Ferris Bueller's Day Off and the principle telling the mom how many absences Ferris had.
The overlooked issue with these kinds of things is the pressure & flow consequences caused BOTH by adding another component to the loop and especially in the case of a tiny component like this is the cross-sectional area of the heat sink.
There is always a tradeoff with components in a loop. Pressure drops will occur when you keep adding more components to the loop. If the cooler has the smallest cross section (which could very well be likely), that's going to restrict your overall flowrate.
That was a good test something I have wondered about for a while.