Piety has a gain switch on the back and sounds best on high gain. It is a micro amp that uses Schitt's Continuity circuit also found in Aegir. It was produced by Nitsch, based on a Schitt prototype.
It was on low (just checked). I'll give it another listen today/tomorrow and post a short or a micro review if I feel it warrants a correction. Thanks for drawing this to my attention
@@PassionforSound to my ear it magnifies the openess of the soundstage about 4 or 5 times. In my living room I'm streaming with a WiiM mini into the Piety as a preamp to an old NAD 711 feeding a pair of AJ pioneer speakers. I like the acoustic dimension it adds to the NAD. I will probably add a J2 to this chain and then update the speakers next.
Great review. For the longest time I was very confused by the differences of all these schitt products. I feel I finally have a better handle on what to expect between these devices without actually having listened to them.
Love the review! Nice work. I really enjoy my Piety on the high gain setting. I found that the difference between the two settings was not subtle. The Piety has found a home on my bedside headphone system. I've used it with the HE-R9, Sivga SV021, and the Emotiva GR1, and Sennheiser HD650 headphones. The new sound is so much fun, yes completely tube-like.
That's great to hear. Peyton (the owner of the Piety) suggested that I check the gain and it was on low. In my rush to get it into the review, I didn't check it thoroughly for the switch on the back. I'll take another listen in high gain and post an update if warranted.
THANK YOU! Love your channel. As for Schiit: my gateway into headphone amps and dacs was the first generation Magni. Since then ive purchased many products from Schiit and always been happy with them. Its great to see them continuing to update and improve their entry level offerings.
Lachlan doesn't just speak of his observations, he speaks about them, exploring the edges and boundaries, the inside and the outside, in same way we might walk about a town. This oppositional language is nuanced and very helpful when considering what to try next. Or making you want to buy them all and go on the journey with him... Or just dream about it.
As expected, a highly articulate description of similarities and differences between DACs and amps. Micro systems are a great way to explore your preferences without breaking the bank. Passion for Sound is an excellent benchmark.
So glad you liked it! That's a great point about exploring preferences with gear like this before going all in on higher end devices (or just staying with some of these because they are plenty good enough for many people)
Thanks so much for this video, helps me tons! I'm someone who is really into the hobby but suffers from tinnitus in the high frequency range, so I appreciate all the help I can get on choosing gear that leans more warm than bright. I think I've settled on the modi mb/vali/loki stack along with a pair of hifiman 4xx =]
That's great, Jared! I'm so glad I can help. That sounds like a great chain and you can always tweak the sound with the Loki to make it as warm and easy on your ears as you need.
Such a great video with _so_ much information easily digestible by a Schiit newbie like myself. I had heard of Schiit before, even the story about the creator in his garage and his wife nagging him to stop playing with his Schiit and get inside for dinner. But! I wasn't sure until I watched multiple videos all lauding the quality of Schiit. The consensus is I can't go wrong with this Schiit.
Maaaaaan thank you, I actually thought because the heretic amp was a "terrible measuring amp" that sounded good, I had just ASSUMED that it was nice and warm. I figured it would be in-between the Magni and the Piety. I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the Heretic, luckily now I'll go for the Magni+ since I def won't be able to get ahold of a piety.
Great reviews! The Modi+ seems to come out as the overall DAC winner in this video given the budget price tag. I agree with others to give the high gain on the Piety a try and see if that changes what you think. How would you compare the Cayin RU6 to the Modi+ and MM2? Cheap Audio Man pronounces Schiit like "skit" which is something to consider instead of bleeping out the sound.
I'll quickly test the Piety in high gain when I get the chance and post an update if needed. Unfortunately, I don't own the RU6 to test it (it was a loaner). I started off trying to change the word, but it was taking too much brain power while I was trying to also formulate what I needed to say (I don't read from a script, just a high level outline and some bullets)
Sorry Mike! I think it was Vérité Open from ZMF. Basically, any fast-sounding (i.e. short decay, tight punchy bass) headphones or headphones that lean towards cool/lean tonalities will sound great with Piety.
I do want to say I'm a big fan of your content I've been watching you since You're very 1st video Big Shout up to you and your amazing content I am definitely going to buy the schiit magni heretic With the silver and red Man that looks Really good with the red and silver I can't wait for you to review the schiit RAGNAROK 2 On its headphone amp Performance That would be awesome to see I love the duck Squeaks good choice and the Schiit x Nitsch Magni Piety Headphone Amp has 1 watt at 32ohms btw
Glad you're liking the content and thanks for the long term support! I'm not likely to get Ragnarok 2 for review because it's more speaker amp than headphone amp and it's been around a long time now (relatively). Thanks for the info about the Piety amp's power. I wasn't clear when I talked about power because I was only referring to the true Schiit amps then.
Glad you liked it! I didn't directly talk about the DACs and amps in combination because that's going to come down to people's preferences of what they want to mix and match. Personally, I'd pair Magni+ with Modi MB2 to make the most of the soundstage depth. Pairing the Heretic with MMB2 or Magni+ with Modi+ would of course sound great and will offset some of the warmth/richness of that's what people want, but will lose soundstage depth so it's all about what people value.
I'll buy your Piety off ya 😉 I left mine in the cart and missed out on that collectible. Great comparisons as always! I think the final thing to do (which would be really helpful for the HQP people) is compare 192khz upsampked HQP filters to the MB and 2/64 in NOS modes
Ended up going the Jot and Bifrost for future proofing at this stage. Got the Arya V3 on the way 🤘🏻 As a fellow Aussie, if you end up talking to the Gishelli peeps again are you able to hit them up to include an Australian plug as an order option?? Love the look and the reviews for them have been great.
Hope you love your stack and the Aryas! I'll definitely be chatting to Geno and Sherri in the future so I'll see what they say. They've got a new amp coming so I'll see about an interview with them...
Thanks for the detailed video (and many more for the timestamps!). I currently run the Fiio K7 but am considering making the jump to single ended only before expanding my collection. Do you think the Magni+/Modi+ or Modi Multibit 2 is an upgrade in any way?
Sorry about the slow reply. Yes, I think the Magni/Modi stack (any combo) would be a nice upgrade. The key benefits you'll get are a fully discrete amp with the Magni+ and the Modi+ might give you a touch more detail. Modi Multibit 2 might also give a bit more soundstage depth with the Magni+ can make the most of. The K7 produces a relatively 2-dimensional soundstage despite being very good in general.
I didn't. I don't know if the NOS mode firmware was available at the time. That said, I'm also not a fan of the Schiit DACs in NOS mode as I really enjoy what the Schiit filters do for the sound.
Great review as usual, so thank you! Question, which of the Modi+ and Modi MB2 would you pair with Sennheiser 660s2 ? I find the Fiio K7 that i have a bit too smooth with the 660s2. Thanks again :)
How would the Magni+ Headphone amp compare to the Mojo 2’s headphone amp ? I’m torn between the two 😕 thanks for the amazing effort and time you give 😊
That's an interesting question. I think the Mojo 2 amp stage is probably going to be more transparent than the Magni+ as an amp, but it's also a lot less powerful (if that matters). It's very hard to really test this though because you can't isolate the Mojo 2 DAC and drive the Magni+ without the Mojo 2 amp stage in the circuit
Thanks for great review. Sold on the Modi+. Adding how different types of music are handled would be helpful such as rock or pop. How about bass, I like heavy bass but not drowning the rest. How about streaming TV, drama or action movies like FastX, how do these hold up and which is better. Technical details and neutral and fun are great for experts, but I'm not one, so you'd need to talk down to me and perhaps many others and also a section on best use and if make difference. Actually, I do lookup and learn but still wonder about best for my use. Home office, calls, music(loud), rock with strong bass, and action sci-fi movies which can output optical, as can my PC.
A DAC might have some slight character to its sound (warmth, dryness, smoothness, etc.) but it won't alter its performance between different music or media genres. If you're looking for a particular type of sound like extra bass or extra detail, etc. then your choice of amplifier and/or speakers/headphones will have much more impact
Randomly noticed that the Modi Multibit 2 has a swappable opamp socket. That is pretty cool. I bet a punchy opamp would give the impact back that it's missing.
It's not missing impact as such - just the transients are not as sharp as the Modi+. I didn't see if it what chips were where so there's a chance it's not an op-amp in that socket too.
@@PassionforSound It looks like a dip8 socket so I'm guessing its an opamp for the output stage, but I guess they could be using some other kind of weirdness in there.
A bit of a newbie question. Does DAC choice matter with tube amps? Is R2R/multibit DAC a better pairing with tubes than ESS/other chip DAC? Is the former better than tube rolling? I understand the pairing will vary individually, but I am wondering from a categorical point of view (maybe, let's say, does it differ at this Schiit price point). Personally, I love tube sounds but I do wonder whether I am missing out of the right DAC pairing. Thanks for your interesting take on audiogear on this channel - One of the best, with some ASMR tickle, in the world.
I agree with Warren. It really comes down to your tastes, preferences and amp. Delta sigma, chip-based DACs are almost always going to sound flatter in the soundstage. Tubes will help to add some space back in, but Multibit/R2R/Chord DACs will start with more depth and then the tube just adds to it from there. One final point is that delta sigma chip-based DACs will generally sound a little more aggressive so if you have a very rich/warm tube amp, a delta sigma DAC might help to prevent it getting too thick.
Dear Sir, I’ve tried to reach out to Schiit about this connection issue and haven’t been able to get a response, maybe you can help, the unit uses usb-c to iPhone 15 promax usb-c, my phone came with short charger cable(usb-c to usb-c) but on their website it says u need different dongle from apple, very confusing, I’m using the short supplied apple cable and it works, but not sure if I need something different like a lightning cable by apple, please help🤦♂️
I think Apple devices need the camera connection kit (or something similar) to connect out to external devices. This is probably a question for Apple experts rather than Schiit or me (I'm an Android user)
I have the modi plus and in reference to the dac in my oppo 105 player ..the treble is less airy and not as smooth ..however the schitt has a better mid bass punch … i prefer the more expensive oppo for my system but the schitt is decent for the price 👍
Even more questions, I apologize. It's what happens when it takes a while before things can be bought 😄 Modi Multibit 2 or Modius? Thinking with the Midgard. I know the Midgard has balanced in and the Modius has that out (though the Midgard's XLR out is for the Halo function, not balanced headohone out, if I got it right)
There's no problems running the RCA input into the Midgard - it works equally well with both and won't influence the headphone output. As for which DAC to choose? That's harder! I'd probably choose the Multibit, but it would also depend on future plans. If you're likely to get another amp in future, the two outputs from the Modius would be handy. It's a safe choice either way.
@@PassionforSound Yes I will report back with my "findings". Also your video here is a massive service to the community considering the popularity of Schiit products and the huge void of information surrounding the differences between Magni and Heretic specifically! Thank you!
Nice comparisons. I’ve been considering a little stack for the office. Did you notice any difference in temperature between the Heretic and Magni+? I see they added some more ventilation to the case. Just wondering if it’s equally necessary on the two models and how hot they get on top.
I didn't specifically notice so there might be some difference, but not enough to worry about. They produce identical power output so the heat dissipation should be similar. They get warm, but not hot
the ventilation holes on the Magni+ & Heretic are an actual cosmetic improvements from the previous models. 60% more holes, including the sides. Imo, there are no worries about temperature, as PFS stated, they definitely do run warm. If you can spare the extra investment, there are beautiful mini stack cabinets you can buy 2 or 3 units in height.
Here in europe the modi + is around 25% more expensive than the e30 ii. Also the e30 ii has a screen and a remote and that is a big plus in my opinion. If the difference is 1% i guess i prefer the topping. Would have been nice if you'd included the l30 ii as well.
I did and didn't. I think if you're paying more for the Schiit options then the Topping or SMSL are the better value. The reason I didn't specifically include the L30II is that it's significantly more expensive (based on global RRP in USD) than the Magni+.
@@PassionforSound i understand. here in europe, american gear is significantly more expensive and sometimes not even available.(importing is a hassle) In my case, i can get l30ii for less money than its us competitors.
Yep. It's similar here in Australia quite often. For the same money or less, the L30II is a better choice than Magni Heretic. Magni+ is a bit different again because it's discrete
Just call it Poo Audio and most people will figure it out. 🙂 *Added later: just to be safe, you might want to wink when you say it. 🤔 BTW - Love my Lokius!
I started trying a different way of saying it initially for this video, but the brain power required to substitute each time was making it too hard for me to think about what I need to say/describe. I don't use a script so my brain is always running at full capacity when recording to translate my bullet points into connected and coherent statements 😁
I’m wondering, when you plug in any steamer into a dac, do you have to increase the volume of that streamer to full volume to get the dac to work, or the dac does the work for you without the excessive volume?
Generally speaking, most streamers outputting to a DAC will bypass the volume control of the streamer so the DAC will do all the work in that regard. It's possible that this can vary on some models, but that's generally been my experience.
Interesting I actually found the piety to have rougher treble and an overall thinner sound but the stage was great where as the magni+ had meatier bass and sweeter mids and more detailed smoother treble.
@@PassionforSound I have no idea but I used the modi+ as well, the only difference is I used the HD650 which I’ve had for years and I know them very well it’s my only headphone.
Excellent comparison. I am lucky that by instinct and without real knowledge I have made the decision to order a Modi+ as a base a DAC and a Geshelli J2 AKM as a slight upgrade for it's balanced outputs. This is my first venture into the DAC territory. Looking forward to use the Modi+ with my desktop/laptop and the Geshelli on my living room stereo. I am still doubtful about any possible improvement on the stereo which is consisting of an Adcom GFA 555, Adcom GFP 915, Yamaha TX 492 tuner and 2 Yamaha 585 CD changers running into a pair of Klipsch La Scala speakers. This is a fairly good setup as it is for music listening in my opinion. How and what improvement could an additional DAC bring? What do you think?
I don't know the specific products in your setup, but getting a better DAC will generally bring better resolution of details in the music, better separation of the individual sounds, and possibly better soundstage size and shape.
@@PassionforSound I enjoyed the review but would have loved to hear your take on how the magni 3 plus compares to the Asgard 3 since they're both a discreet design and the Asgard is more than twice the price. Thanks
That's a good question. I had to draw the line due to length of the video as it was, but the answer to that is that I find Asgard 3 a little richer and warmer sounding than Magni+. It's also more spacious and a little more resolving so I'd say it's a better amp overall so long as you're happy with the extra warmth.
I'm a newby and I have a question...Can the Schitt Mani I think it is...the headphone amp can that amp power speakers and I can attach my laptop to them? Or would I need to buy another amp or pre amp? Thanks in advance
Hi Robert, the Magni is a headphone amp and pre-amp only - no speaker outputs. Schiit have just released a couple of desktop speaker amps I believe so they might be more what you need and could perhaps be paired with a Magni for headphone and preamp duties
I still don't get what's the difference between the modi+ and the modi heretic. Why choose one over the other? Schiit website isn't clear either. At least not for a beginner.
The Modis are DACs (Modi+ and Modi Multibit 2) and the Magnis are the amps (Magni+ and Magni Heretic). The difference between the DACs is the type of processing used. Modi+ is a regular decoder like most DACs on the market. The Modi Multibit 2 uses Schiit's own in-house decoding approach. For the amps, the Magni+ is what's called a discrete design where the circuit uses individual components. The Magni Heretic is what's called an integrated design where a silicone chip is used to do the work. The end result in each case (DACs and amps) is a slightly different sound, but beyond that, there's no right or wrong.
I haven't tried the HE560, but based on what I have heard about it, the Magni+ might be the better amp choice for a little extra weight in the sound. The Heretic won't be bad and Modi+ is great so it just depends on your preferences.
Great channel. I really love your interviews. Speaking with others in several forums it would be great if you could choose someone ( not the guy from Schiit since you already interviewed him). But someone who is a real guru on DACs who can walk us through all the workings or a DAC. What I mean is that what makes the differences in sound in DACs? Why do some use a linear supply ? How much does the PSU used contribute to the sound and why? What is the differences using op amps compared to a discreet class A analog output? Do the op amps sound worse because of the intense negative feedback used? Or the slew rate the op amps produce? Do different and better ‘ audiophile ‘ components in a DAC play a role? Forgive my long message, but it would be great to have these questions asked. Something beyond what different filters do to the sound Much appreciated ! Cheers
All great questions and I definitely would love to find someone to discuss that. I'm always on the lookout for new opportunities so if I can find the right person, I'll gladly explore some of that.
@@PassionforSound I can’t tell you how much I would and others would appreciate that. I found that when I was modifying my Marshall tube guitar amps and changing components , values etc , that gave me the knowledge to tell someone what does what to the sound and feel of the amp. I feel like someone who builds DACs could answer the same. Because they do have a specific layout which they have for making their DAC, then they tweak it. Well what do they hear when they tweak it? Or tweak certain parts of it? What changes sound wise? And a good question also would be to one of these manufacturers , “ if price wasn’t a variable, what would you do to make the absolute best sounding DAC you can?” I mean we have got to the point where there are now measurements. You made an excellent video with three other people including Goldensound, going over that aspect. Which was smart. Hats off to you. But which measurements make a difference and how? When we say, “ one dac had good weight to the instruments”. Well what contributes to that? It’s obvious from that conversation you had and the point we are at, that many more questions need to be asked and for those to be answered. Here’s another question “ can negative feedback be measured in an analog output stage of a DAC? If it can, what affect does that have ? I think Currawong also eluded to Slew Rate. Why is that not measured in the analog output stages of DACs? I am pretty sure that does make an audible difference in attack. Anyway mate, I know you get where I am coming from. SINAD has got to a point where it’s almost not worth looking at, unless something is seriously wrong. There is more here that we need to find out. And that video you did on Beyond measurements was about the BEST video created for this subject. I super appreciate even that fact that you read my comment and respond. Hope all is well Cheers
@@PassionforSound Also forgot to tell you. Brother, you really need to try the Marantz HD DAC1. You will only find it used now. As a headphone amp it’s ok, but as a DAC it’s great. Not typical Marantz rolled off. Yes it’s old but I still haven’t found a DAC that I like more and I’ve tried a lot. For me it excels at timbre. It’s cheap now used and from one musician to another trust me on this one. It’s good. It does benefit a bit from an USB galvanic isolator my ears tell me. But I think you will be surprised
Weird I thought the J2 and the Modi+ sounded really really different, with the J2 having a lot more treble and muscle and it took me a while to get used to coming off the Modi+. Though I did have the AKM version of the J2. The Modi+ sounds more “normal” to me, while the J2 sounds more powerful and detailed but was less relaxed and comfortable to me, and more harsh. (I ended up replacing both with the 2/64 which I think clocks them both.) I paired all of them with the RebelAmp.
I considered getting the J2 but turned out they do not ship to my country, so I settled with Modi Multibit 2. I heard the J2 has more clarity and details, but I am very satisfied with the Modi Multibit 2 as they sound so natural and engaging, I believe it is called having a great timbre in the audiophile community? But I was thrown off at how terrible it sounded out of the box, the mid-bass is so bloated it muddied the music up. I was very disappointed, left it on over the night and I don't really know what happened but the mid-bass lighten up and the soundstage opened up. Funny experience, I have read a lot of Modi Multibit users experiencing the same.
I've got the J2 AKM coming soon so I can include the Modi+ in that review as a comparison. As for the MMB2, the warm-up time is minimal and it doesn't change significantly after powering on (once burned in), but the initial burn-in can take quite a few hours on some devices. I just ran MMB2 and Modi+ pretty consistently on my desk for a few weeks before this review so I didn't test the sound immediately to notice the burn-in or lack of. I DID notice it on the Bifrost 2/64 upgrade card though and that was with an already burned-in output stage.
I think it depends on what you're after. For FPS games and similar, BF2, Gumby and Yggy could all work well I think because they're less smooth than MMB2, but those wanting a really sharp and detailed sound for placement of sounds might prefer delta sigma DACs still. I'm not a big gamer these days so apologies that I don't have a firm answer.
I can't imagine using a Multibit for gaming. I'd go with the sharper, faster Modi delta sigma for that. I use the Multibit for deep, immersive listening to ultra-well recorded music (Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Alan Parsons, jazz, classical, acid folk, etc) as it's microdetails really come out without visual stimulation in a dark room while I use the delta sigma Modi for harder and more modern sounds.
I can still hear "Schiit" 🤣🤣 Was a good move moving the pot away from the HP output; distortion problems with the Magni3+, pity they didn't do that + the 3 gain stages before. After 7 Schiit purchases, I probably wont get anymore; left with obsolete second rate version's that sell for a lot less second hand. Good review, thanks 👍👍
Yeah, my theory was that the noise would just prevent UA-cam's bots from getting cranky about the language and demonetising me. As for the products, Schiit have released a few updates to the micro range I've the last few years, triggered by a couple of factors as I understand. Their higher level gear seems less prone to these updates, but I understand the concern.
@@PassionforSound Yes they haven't updated Freya+, Gungnir MB or Aegir's...yet. Like Topping, they do offer great value for money. Thank you for your response ✌😎✌ BTW, I bought Verum1 mk2 on the strength of your review, so thanks again! 👍 please keep up the good work.
hey, do you think that a stack like this(or any stack/ dac/amp, or dongle) can match or beat the chord mojo2? Specifically for the HD800S, u12t, and ie600(which I ended up getting with based on your recommendation) ? I am based on pure sound quality and synergy for my lineup, Ideally something without micro USB and perhaps cheaper than the mojo 2(650usd)? Thanks
Thanks, I was not sure about the Mojo 2 but it sounds like a nice pairing for my headphone and iems, especially to get the most out of the HD800s; I was really tempted with the Schiit or SMSL SU-6 & SH-6 stack, but the fact that mojo has the desktop mode can make it my one and only solution@@PassionforSound
@@PassionforSound Thanks! Just one more thing if you can. I came across a Diana v2 for under 1.8 USD. I like the form factor because it's somewhat portable, I know you don't recommend it for 3.5k, but what about 1.8? and does the Mojo 2 drive it to their potential?
So none of these have USB-C as input? How would one connect an iPhone via Lightning? I want to use my iPhone to stream Lossless music but I am bit beginner in which Schiit model to choose as a single device without the need to stack.
The Modi+ and Modi Multibit 2 both use USB-C input. I don't use apple so I'm not sure what's required to connect to a USB-C DAC. In case you're not aware, the DAC will need an amp after it as these don't have any kind of headphone output built in. You can buy devices that have both DAC and headphone amp though so consider exactly what you need and feel free to ask more if it's unclear still.
@@PassionforSound love that you are helping your commenters. Kudos. I watched Joshua Valour’s review of IEMagni and it that video he explains that you can just use Apple Lightning to 3.5 mm dongle and connect it directly to Magni without the need for Modi. I also read that some people say that the output voltage from the Apple Dongle is a bit on the low side so they are not impressed how it works with just using the IPhone with the dongle connected to a Magni Amp. If you have tried that in one of your videos pls let me know.
Ah, yes. You can definitely do that with any amplifier. Whether it's the ample dongle or another compatible one. If you max the volume on the phone (or at least 95-99%) it should be plenty loud enough for most headphones.
hi.. im waiting for the 6xx witch i m gonna drive with a fiio k5 pro ess.. do you think the topping dx5 beat the fiio by far in general terms and if you can suggest some other upgrade over the fiio i will pleased to hear.. thanks
FiiO K5 Pro will be great. I haven't compared it to the DX5, but the DX5 might be a little better. Beyond those two, something like an SMSL M500 Mk3 is probably the next step.
@@PassionforSound thanks.. Has plenty of power and i m running thr beyer 250 ohm without problems.. But I hope for thr 6xx thr quality of thr dac can bring thr best
You won't quite get the very best from the HD6xx, but it will sound wonderful with the K5 or DX5 and then you can go even higher in the future if you want to - the HD6xx scale incredibly well
I don't think so. Neither is overly lean or aggressive. I'd probably go for the Modi+ and Magni+ myself for the best of both worlds, but no reason to avoid the Modi/Heretic combo
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the reply--I already have an Asgard 3 which is probably similar to the Magni+, thinking the Heretic would give a bit more speed/clarity.
Yes, the Heretic will definitely do that. Asgard 3 is a bit richer and warmer than the Magni+ so it depends on how far you want to go back towards neutrality/'clinicality' (you can't go wrong with Magni+ or Heretic IMO)
@@PassionforSound Were you able to compare the Heretic to the previous Heresy? Just curious if there's a noticeable difference(or improvement). Certainly nice to have the new protection circuit.
The K7 is great (I'm reviewing it right now), but the Schiit Stack (Modi+ and Magni+/Heretic) will perform slightly better. I'll discuss in my review how the K7 and Schiit Syn compare. The Syn is kind of like a Modi+ with a Magni in the same housing so it's a good indicator.
I think you could connect an amp to the 2i2 using the outputs on the back, but I've never tried. You'd need TRS to RCA cables or adapters (TRS out of the 2i2, RCA into the amps)
bro thank you so much for responding, you think i can just connect the magni to the scarlet headphone slot (not the ones on the back) you think it will work or not at all, i wanted to use the normal trs channel because im using the back ones on some monitor speakers
I think you could. You'd just need to setup the headphone monitoring volume to a suitable level for the downstream amp. You'll need to play with that a bit to get it right
A DAC takes the data provided from a computer, phone, or other device playing music files (including streamed music from Spotify, etc.) and turns that data into the signal that our headphones/speakers can play for us to listen to. DAC stands for Digital to Analog Converter: Digital - the data on our computers, etc. Analog - the musical waveforms that we want to listen to
They're quite different. J2 ESS is more like Modi+ only a tiny bit more resolving so the MMB2 vs Modi+ comparison is much the same as the MMB2 vs J2 ESS
@@PassionforSound that’s understandable. In your experience do different EQs sound different? Like say you tuned everything identically would the Lokius sound different than the Loki Max? Since they’re both 6 band EQs Are you really paying $1200 extra for a remote and an upgraded potentiometer? I apologize that it’s off topic or if it’s an obvious answer but the thought has been in my mind lately. Thanks in advance
Yes, that will sound great! The HD600 can sound even better with higher level gear, but you don't NEED to go higher as the Modi/Magni stack will be wonderful as it is
@@N1ubility with HD600, something like an xDuoo TA-26S is lovely, but somewhat limited for other headphones if you plan on getting others. The Schiit Asgard 3 is also great or the Geshelli Labs A3 Pro is amazing!
There is a post on another audio review channel that has an email from Schiit reps stating that their DACs are designed with no intended audio differences. There is no output difference between top end Ygg and bottom end Modi
That's complete rubbish (sorry to be blunt). Jason discussed in an interview on this channel that they ran blind testing with their three current Yggy versions and how all three sounded different.
@@PassionforSound no apology necessary for bluntness, I was posting about this to engage in discussion. There is a large contingency of people who say all DACs sound the same and should sound the same, with expensive DACs being an intentional scam. As someone who was considering a BF2 I'd be pretty disappointed if there's no intended difference between it and any other of their DAC products (not including ports etc)
Sadly, the people making those claims fall into one of two categories: a) they've never actually tried these DACs for themselves or b) they are so firmly wedded to the idea that they are tricking themselves into hearing no difference. Actually, there's also a third possibility which is that they might be trying a high end DAC with a lower level amp and/or headphone that's restricting the maximum performance. There's no doubt to me that DACs have less of a dramatic improvement from top to bottom than amps and then even more so with headphones, but the BF2/64 is a great example where the difference is not subtle compared to either Modi+ or MMB2 🙂
Yeah. I don't really like my Magni 3+. A have topping L30 and xDuoo MT-602 (amongst a few others) and I like the Magni 3+ the least. I didn't really find a reasonable usage for it where it would excel the other ones. All my stuff makes preamping better and sounds better with headphones. I didn't really understand the hype of it. Maybe it pairs the best with the Sennheiser HD 6xx headphones amongst my ones. I like their power with the HD 6xx headphones. Those hungry bst@dz can learn their real places with the Magni. Which power doesn't show using it as a preamp. I wouldn't throw it away (I like it's look :), but I had to put fate in Schiit to get the Loki after the Magni. But I have Loki Mini+ as well, and that gives exactly what was promised and expected by me. I don't have any other EQ, so maybe it's not so great in a global sense, but I like it very - very much. It is really transparent (for my ears, not a measurement) when it is switched off or bypassing, and it gives a significant, easily controllable clean tone shift when it's switched to do that. It's a very precious thing. I like it very much. Oh, and a last complaint. What is this idi@cy not putting on/off switches on the front panel ? They designed it to be always on, or they think that anybody will reach the switches at the rear panel ? It seems absolutely stpd to me.
The power switch on the back has been talked about to death. It keeps the circuit simple and clean (not running power back and forth across the PCB) and is kind of a thing for Schiit now (I'm not a fan either). As for the Magni+, it sounds like you would prefer the Heretic if you like the L30II more, but because you have the L30II, there's no need to get the Heretic 🙂
@@PassionforSound _"... It keeps the circuit simple and clean ..."_ Yeah. I'm not satisfied with that answer, sorry Schiit. :) It's like making the gearshift at the back seats if the engine is at the back. _"... and is kind of a thing for Schiit now ..."_ Yeah. Let us make it to be a style now. :) And the Apple mouse is charged with a cable plugged from the bottom of the mouse while you cannot even use it while charging, FFS. :) _"... there's no need to get the Heretic ..."_ Yeah. Finally I got a bunch of cheap amps, I'm pretty happy with them. I need no more.
Hello, I have a marantz 6006 and Klipsch RP500 M speakers. What DAC do you recommend to connect to my laptop. I currently have an e30. Budget up to 300-400 dollars. Thank you and all praise.
I don't know your amp and speakers, but for that kind of budget, the Topping E50 is really nice as are the Geshelli Labs J2 and Schiit Modi Multibit 2.
Piety has a gain switch on the back and sounds best on high gain. It is a micro amp that uses Schitt's Continuity circuit also found in Aegir. It was produced by Nitsch, based on a Schitt prototype.
Oops! Clearly I didn't explore it enough (re the gain switch) 🫨
Thanks for the info, Peyton. I'll get the unit back to you in the next week or so.
@@PassionforSound no hurry.
@@PassionforSound you might want to check to see if the gain was up (on) or down (off). Given the low voltage it's better on high.
It was on low (just checked). I'll give it another listen today/tomorrow and post a short or a micro review if I feel it warrants a correction. Thanks for drawing this to my attention
@@PassionforSound to my ear it magnifies the openess of the soundstage about 4 or 5 times. In my living room I'm streaming with a WiiM mini into the Piety as a preamp to an old NAD 711 feeding a pair of AJ pioneer speakers. I like the acoustic dimension it adds to the NAD. I will probably add a J2 to this chain and then update the speakers next.
Great review. For the longest time I was very confused by the differences of all these schitt products. I feel I finally have a better handle on what to expect between these devices without actually having listened to them.
That's great news! So glad I could help
Love the review! Nice work. I really enjoy my Piety on the high gain setting. I found that the difference between the two settings was not subtle. The Piety has found a home on my bedside headphone system. I've used it with the HE-R9, Sivga SV021, and the Emotiva GR1, and Sennheiser HD650 headphones. The new sound is so much fun, yes completely tube-like.
That's great to hear. Peyton (the owner of the Piety) suggested that I check the gain and it was on low. In my rush to get it into the review, I didn't check it thoroughly for the switch on the back. I'll take another listen in high gain and post an update if warranted.
THANK YOU! Love your channel. As for Schiit: my gateway into headphone amps and dacs was the first generation Magni. Since then ive purchased many products from Schiit and always been happy with them. Its great to see them continuing to update and improve their entry level offerings.
So glad you're enjoying the channel! Thanks for watching and commenting! 🙂🙂
Can't wait for the J2 AKM review.
Fantastic review roundup. Really smart and articulate in your comparisons. This is why you’re one of my favourite reviewers. Great stuff!
Lachlan doesn't just speak of his observations, he speaks about them, exploring the edges and boundaries, the inside and the outside, in same way we might walk about a town. This oppositional language is nuanced and very helpful when considering what to try next. Or making you want to buy them all and go on the journey with him... Or just dream about it.
Thanks Rick and Peyton! Glad I've been able to help 🙂🙂
As expected, a highly articulate description of similarities and differences between DACs and amps. Micro systems are a great way to explore your preferences without breaking the bank. Passion for Sound is an excellent benchmark.
So glad you liked it! That's a great point about exploring preferences with gear like this before going all in on higher end devices (or just staying with some of these because they are plenty good enough for many people)
Schitt also produces Vali, a micro version of a tube amp, priced at $150 USD for those wanting a warmer amp.
I have the 2++ and it is amazing(especially for the money).
Thanks so much for this video, helps me tons! I'm someone who is really into the hobby but suffers from tinnitus in the high frequency range, so I appreciate all the help I can get on choosing gear that leans more warm than bright. I think I've settled on the modi mb/vali/loki stack along with a pair of hifiman 4xx =]
That's great, Jared! I'm so glad I can help. That sounds like a great chain and you can always tweak the sound with the Loki to make it as warm and easy on your ears as you need.
Thank you for the review I bought the modi +, magni + and the Loki mini + eq, all good enjoying them here in Melbourne Australia.
Nice stack!
Recently purchased the modi multibit 2 and I have to confess my modius is gathering dust now. Sounds great
That's cool that you're enjoying the MMB2 so much!
Such a great video with _so_ much information easily digestible by a Schiit newbie like myself. I had heard of Schiit before, even the story about the creator in his garage and his wife nagging him to stop playing with his Schiit and get inside for dinner. But! I wasn't sure until I watched multiple videos all lauding the quality of Schiit. The consensus is I can't go wrong with this Schiit.
I'm so glad you liked the video and that you've jumped on the Schiity bandwagon 😉
They make some great gear!
Great review of their current product portfolio! Anybody entering the hobby should watch this video.
Thanks Ace!
Maaaaaan thank you, I actually thought because the heretic amp was a "terrible measuring amp" that sounded good, I had just ASSUMED that it was nice and warm. I figured it would be in-between the Magni and the Piety. I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the Heretic, luckily now I'll go for the Magni+ since I def won't be able to get ahold of a piety.
So glad I could help! What you're describing as what you wanted is definitely the Magni+, not the Heretic 🙂
Great reviews! The Modi+ seems to come out as the overall DAC winner in this video given the budget price tag. I agree with others to give the high gain on the Piety a try and see if that changes what you think.
How would you compare the Cayin RU6 to the Modi+ and MM2?
Cheap Audio Man pronounces Schiit like "skit" which is something to consider instead of bleeping out the sound.
I'll quickly test the Piety in high gain when I get the chance and post an update if needed.
Unfortunately, I don't own the RU6 to test it (it was a loaner).
I started off trying to change the word, but it was taking too much brain power while I was trying to also formulate what I needed to say (I don't read from a script, just a high level outline and some bullets)
@@PassionforSound Sounds good. It sucks the UA-cam monetization is so schiity. They want to strip content creators of any $ they can.
I don't know that it's actually UA-cam doing that so much as the advertisers being hypersensitive in our world as it is.
Had a difficult time hearing what headphones you said paired well with the Piety. I heard open. Thanks for all you do.
Sorry Mike! I think it was Vérité Open from ZMF. Basically, any fast-sounding (i.e. short decay, tight punchy bass) headphones or headphones that lean towards cool/lean tonalities will sound great with Piety.
Good sound comparison between the Heretic, Magni+ and Piety, thanks.
My pleasure!
I just bought a modi+ and it was a huge jump in sound quality
Over the dac in my cd player
Which im using as a transport
That's great news! Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I do want to say I'm a big fan of your content I've been watching you since You're very 1st video Big Shout up to you and your amazing content I am definitely going to buy the schiit magni heretic With the silver and red Man that looks Really good with the red and silver I can't wait for you to review the schiit RAGNAROK 2 On its headphone amp Performance That would be awesome to see I love the duck Squeaks good choice and the Schiit x Nitsch Magni Piety Headphone Amp has 1 watt at 32ohms btw
Glad you're liking the content and thanks for the long term support!
I'm not likely to get Ragnarok 2 for review because it's more speaker amp than headphone amp and it's been around a long time now (relatively).
Thanks for the info about the Piety amp's power. I wasn't clear when I talked about power because I was only referring to the true Schiit amps then.
Small correction on the Modi Multi-bit: It is not a DC barrel connector! It's a 14-16VAC connector.
Good point - thank you! Barrel connector, yes. DC, definitely not 😁
Finally SRV gets some love on thee audiophile channels!
Yeah, love me some SRV!
Useful and interesting as usual! I may have missed it, but did you talk about using the Modi DACs with the Magni and Peity amps?
Glad you liked it! I didn't directly talk about the DACs and amps in combination because that's going to come down to people's preferences of what they want to mix and match. Personally, I'd pair Magni+ with Modi MB2 to make the most of the soundstage depth. Pairing the Heretic with MMB2 or Magni+ with Modi+ would of course sound great and will offset some of the warmth/richness of that's what people want, but will lose soundstage depth so it's all about what people value.
I'll buy your Piety off ya 😉 I left mine in the cart and missed out on that collectible.
Great comparisons as always! I think the final thing to do (which would be really helpful for the HQP people) is compare 192khz upsampked HQP filters to the MB and 2/64 in NOS modes
The Piety isn't mine - sorry. As for HQP, I'm not a regular user of it so that's a whole extra setup for me and I don't currently have the time.
@Passion for Sound and a license fee ☠️
I could live with that if it was something I'd use 🙂
@Passion for Sound it really is for the R2R crowd so they can take advantage of the 1024khz PCM and dsd rates with poly/sinc/PGGB stuff.
Its back in stock!!
Ended up going the Jot and Bifrost for future proofing at this stage. Got the Arya V3 on the way 🤘🏻
As a fellow Aussie, if you end up talking to the Gishelli peeps again are you able to hit them up to include an Australian plug as an order option?? Love the look and the reviews for them have been great.
Hope you love your stack and the Aryas! I'll definitely be chatting to Geno and Sherri in the future so I'll see what they say. They've got a new amp coming so I'll see about an interview with them...
Thanks for the detailed video (and many more for the timestamps!). I currently run the Fiio K7 but am considering making the jump to single ended only before expanding my collection.
Do you think the Magni+/Modi+ or Modi Multibit 2 is an upgrade in any way?
Sorry about the slow reply. Yes, I think the Magni/Modi stack (any combo) would be a nice upgrade. The key benefits you'll get are a fully discrete amp with the Magni+ and the Modi+ might give you a touch more detail. Modi Multibit 2 might also give a bit more soundstage depth with the Magni+ can make the most of. The K7 produces a relatively 2-dimensional soundstage despite being very good in general.
@@PassionforSound thanks!!
Thanks for the review! Did you test the Modi MB2 in NOS mode?
I didn't. I don't know if the NOS mode firmware was available at the time. That said, I'm also not a fan of the Schiit DACs in NOS mode as I really enjoy what the Schiit filters do for the sound.
Great review as usual, so thank you! Question, which of the Modi+ and Modi MB2 would you pair with Sennheiser 660s2 ? I find the Fiio K7 that i have a bit too smooth with the 660s2. Thanks again :)
If you want less smoothness, I'd go with the Modi+. 🙂
@@PassionforSound Thank you
Love the Piety!!!
Glad you're loving it. It's like a little Asgard 3 (and that's a big compliment)
@@PassionforSound It puts meat on the bone. The last few years, of choking feedback on chip amps? It's a breath of fresh air.
I agree. It's why I love the Magni+ too
The Piety does take some break in time for best performance on the high gain setting in my opinion
Great review. Is the Modi MB more rich and full bodied vs. the new Bifrost? Thanks
Yes. It's a little less extended sounding/detailed in the treble which gives it a greater sense of warmth and richness
How would the Magni+ Headphone amp compare to the Mojo 2’s headphone amp ? I’m torn between the two 😕 thanks for the amazing effort and time you give 😊
That's an interesting question. I think the Mojo 2 amp stage is probably going to be more transparent than the Magni+ as an amp, but it's also a lot less powerful (if that matters). It's very hard to really test this though because you can't isolate the Mojo 2 DAC and drive the Magni+ without the Mojo 2 amp stage in the circuit
Thanks for great review. Sold on the Modi+. Adding how different types of music are handled would be helpful such as rock or pop. How about bass, I like heavy bass but not drowning the rest. How about streaming TV, drama or action movies like FastX, how do these hold up and which is better. Technical details and neutral and fun are great for experts, but I'm not one, so you'd need to talk down to me and perhaps many others and also a section on best use and if make difference. Actually, I do lookup and learn but still wonder about best for my use. Home office, calls, music(loud), rock with strong bass, and action sci-fi movies which can output optical, as can my PC.
A DAC might have some slight character to its sound (warmth, dryness, smoothness, etc.) but it won't alter its performance between different music or media genres. If you're looking for a particular type of sound like extra bass or extra detail, etc. then your choice of amplifier and/or speakers/headphones will have much more impact
Randomly noticed that the Modi Multibit 2 has a swappable opamp socket. That is pretty cool. I bet a punchy opamp would give the impact back that it's missing.
It's not missing impact as such - just the transients are not as sharp as the Modi+. I didn't see if it what chips were where so there's a chance it's not an op-amp in that socket too.
@@PassionforSound It looks like a dip8 socket so I'm guessing its an opamp for the output stage, but I guess they could be using some other kind of weirdness in there.
Yeah, probably not big enough for a DSP chip or the R2R chip, but I didn't want to get anyone's hopes up 🙂
A bit of a newbie question.
Does DAC choice matter with tube amps?
Is R2R/multibit DAC a better pairing with tubes than ESS/other chip DAC? Is the former better than tube rolling?
I understand the pairing will vary individually, but I am wondering from a categorical point of view (maybe, let's say, does it differ at this Schiit price point). Personally, I love tube sounds but I do wonder whether I am missing out of the right DAC pairing.
Thanks for your interesting take on audiogear on this channel - One of the best, with some ASMR tickle, in the world.
I thought it may be the case but not really. Bought the multibit 2 for my tube amp but found I enjoyed it more with my asgard 3.
I agree with Warren. It really comes down to your tastes, preferences and amp. Delta sigma, chip-based DACs are almost always going to sound flatter in the soundstage. Tubes will help to add some space back in, but Multibit/R2R/Chord DACs will start with more depth and then the tube just adds to it from there.
One final point is that delta sigma chip-based DACs will generally sound a little more aggressive so if you have a very rich/warm tube amp, a delta sigma DAC might help to prevent it getting too thick.
Great video, which Magni would pair better with Mojo2 ?
Glad you liked the video! I'd always choose the Magni+ with any DAC because I think it's the better amp thanks to the discrete design.
Great reviews! Multibit is what I chose and it’s surreal on my vintage system,
I'm glad you like the reviews! Schiit's Multibit DACs are wonderful. I'm so glad you're enjoying yours.
Dear Sir, I’ve tried to reach out to Schiit about this connection issue and haven’t been able to get a response, maybe you can help, the unit uses usb-c to iPhone 15 promax usb-c, my phone came with short charger cable(usb-c to usb-c) but on their website it says u need different dongle from apple, very confusing, I’m using the short supplied apple cable and it works, but not sure if I need something different like a lightning cable by apple, please help🤦♂️
I think Apple devices need the camera connection kit (or something similar) to connect out to external devices. This is probably a question for Apple experts rather than Schiit or me (I'm an Android user)
I have the modi plus and in reference to the dac in my oppo 105 player ..the treble is less airy and not as smooth ..however the schitt has a better mid bass punch … i prefer the more expensive oppo for my system but the schitt is decent for the price 👍
Thanks for the comparison. The Oppo gear has always had an excellent reputation so that makes sense.
Even more questions, I apologize. It's what happens when it takes a while before things can be bought 😄 Modi Multibit 2 or Modius? Thinking with the Midgard.
I know the Midgard has balanced in and the Modius has that out (though the Midgard's XLR out is for the Halo function, not balanced headohone out, if I got it right)
There's no problems running the RCA input into the Midgard - it works equally well with both and won't influence the headphone output. As for which DAC to choose? That's harder! I'd probably choose the Multibit, but it would also depend on future plans. If you're likely to get another amp in future, the two outputs from the Modius would be handy. It's a safe choice either way.
Good timing, Magni+ is on the way to my home as we speak. Pairing with 560S and future proofing any upgrades after!
Lovely. You're in for a treat. Enjoy!
@@PassionforSound Yes I will report back with my "findings". Also your video here is a massive service to the community considering the popularity of Schiit products and the huge void of information surrounding the differences between Magni and Heretic specifically! Thank you!
My pleasure 🙂
Nice comparisons. I’ve been considering a little stack for the office. Did you notice any difference in temperature between the Heretic and Magni+? I see they added some more ventilation to the case. Just wondering if it’s equally necessary on the two models and how hot they get on top.
I didn't specifically notice so there might be some difference, but not enough to worry about. They produce identical power output so the heat dissipation should be similar. They get warm, but not hot
the ventilation holes on the Magni+ & Heretic are an actual cosmetic improvements from the previous models. 60% more holes, including the sides. Imo, there are no worries about temperature, as PFS stated, they definitely do run warm. If you can spare the extra investment, there are beautiful mini stack cabinets you can buy 2 or 3 units in height.
How difficult is it to purchase a Piety on the secondary markets? Any advice?
I'm yet to see one come up in Australia, but the US and Canada might be different
Here in europe the modi + is around 25% more expensive than the e30 ii. Also the e30 ii has a screen and a remote and that is a big plus in my opinion. If the difference is 1% i guess i prefer the topping. Would have been nice if you'd included the l30 ii as well.
He kind of did by reference.
I did and didn't. I think if you're paying more for the Schiit options then the Topping or SMSL are the better value.
The reason I didn't specifically include the L30II is that it's significantly more expensive (based on global RRP in USD) than the Magni+.
@@PassionforSound i understand. here in europe, american gear is significantly more expensive and sometimes not even available.(importing is a hassle) In my case, i can get l30ii for less money than its us competitors.
Yep. It's similar here in Australia quite often. For the same money or less, the L30II is a better choice than Magni Heretic. Magni+ is a bit different again because it's discrete
Just call it Poo Audio and most people will figure it out. 🙂 *Added later: just to be safe, you might want to wink when you say it. 🤔 BTW - Love my Lokius!
I started trying a different way of saying it initially for this video, but the brain power required to substitute each time was making it too hard for me to think about what I need to say/describe. I don't use a script so my brain is always running at full capacity when recording to translate my bullet points into connected and coherent statements 😁
I’m wondering, when you plug in any steamer into a dac, do you have to increase the volume of that streamer to full volume to get the dac to work, or the dac does the work for you without the excessive volume?
Generally speaking, most streamers outputting to a DAC will bypass the volume control of the streamer so the DAC will do all the work in that regard. It's possible that this can vary on some models, but that's generally been my experience.
Shanling UA5 Vs Magni+ Modi+ Stack
In terms of sound quality, which is better for high impedance headphones?
A desktop stack will always beat a dongle in my experience
Super review.
Glad you liked it!
🫵🏿Amazing round up review 👏🏿👍🏿
What about my old modi 3+😝?
Cheers!
Never got my hands on the previous 3+ 🙂
Glad the roundup was helpful!
Interesting I actually found the piety to have rougher treble and an overall thinner sound but the stage was great where as the magni+ had meatier bass and sweeter mids and more detailed smoother treble.
That's very curious. I wonder why we heard such different sounds?
@@PassionforSound I have no idea but I used the modi+ as well, the only difference is I used the HD650 which I’ve had for years and I know them very well it’s my only headphone.
I have the Piety and LOVE it!!!
Glad you're enjoying it so much! 🙂
Excellent comparison. I am lucky that by instinct and without real knowledge I have made the decision to order a Modi+ as a base a DAC and a Geshelli J2 AKM as a slight upgrade for it's balanced outputs. This is my first venture into the DAC territory. Looking forward to use the Modi+ with my desktop/laptop and the Geshelli on my living room stereo. I am still doubtful about any possible improvement on the stereo which is consisting of an Adcom GFA 555, Adcom GFP 915, Yamaha TX 492 tuner and 2 Yamaha 585 CD changers running into a pair of Klipsch La Scala speakers. This is a fairly good setup as it is for music listening in my opinion. How and what improvement could an additional DAC bring? What do you think?
I don't know the specific products in your setup, but getting a better DAC will generally bring better resolution of details in the music, better separation of the individual sounds, and possibly better soundstage size and shape.
I agree about Piety. I didn't think it was that special. My Asgard 3 blew it away.
That's exactly what I just said to a patron. Just buy Asgard 3 for a rich, fun sounding solid state amp 🙂
@@PassionforSound I enjoyed the review but would have loved to hear your take on how the magni 3 plus compares to the Asgard 3 since they're both a discreet design and the Asgard is more than twice the price. Thanks
That's a good question. I had to draw the line due to length of the video as it was, but the answer to that is that I find Asgard 3 a little richer and warmer sounding than Magni+. It's also more spacious and a little more resolving so I'd say it's a better amp overall so long as you're happy with the extra warmth.
I'm a newby and I have a question...Can the Schitt Mani I think it is...the headphone amp can that amp power speakers and I can attach my laptop to them? Or would I need to buy another amp or pre amp? Thanks in advance
Hi Robert, the Magni is a headphone amp and pre-amp only - no speaker outputs. Schiit have just released a couple of desktop speaker amps I believe so they might be more what you need and could perhaps be paired with a Magni for headphone and preamp duties
I still don't get what's the difference between the modi+ and the modi heretic. Why choose one over the other? Schiit website isn't clear either. At least not for a beginner.
The Modis are DACs (Modi+ and Modi Multibit 2) and the Magnis are the amps (Magni+ and Magni Heretic). The difference between the DACs is the type of processing used. Modi+ is a regular decoder like most DACs on the market. The Modi Multibit 2 uses Schiit's own in-house decoding approach.
For the amps, the Magni+ is what's called a discrete design where the circuit uses individual components. The Magni Heretic is what's called an integrated design where a silicone chip is used to do the work. The end result in each case (DACs and amps) is a slightly different sound, but beyond that, there's no right or wrong.
It is confusing. Wait until Schiit releases their Singularity thing. 😅
Has anyone tried the Modi Multibit 2 with an upgraded power supply? Zero-Zone has an AC power supply made for this DAC. Thanks!
I haven't, but that would be interesting
Hello!
A fast question, is the magni+ compatible with hd6xx headphone?
Absolutely and will sound great!
I would like to see power switch on the front and 32 bit 768 kHz capability.
I agree about the power switch. Schiit have talked about a potential capability for higher sample rates in future Unison USB products, but not yet ☹️
would you say the Magni Heretic/Modi+ be a good stack for the Hifiman HE560?
I haven't tried the HE560, but based on what I have heard about it, the Magni+ might be the better amp choice for a little extra weight in the sound. The Heretic won't be bad and Modi+ is great so it just depends on your preferences.
Great channel.
I really love your interviews.
Speaking with others in several forums it would be great if you could choose someone ( not the guy from Schiit since you already interviewed him). But someone who is a real guru on DACs who can walk us through all the workings or a DAC.
What I mean is that what makes the differences in sound in DACs?
Why do some use a linear supply ? How much does the PSU used contribute to the sound and why?
What is the differences using op amps compared to a discreet class A analog output? Do the op amps sound worse because of the intense negative feedback used? Or the slew rate the op amps produce?
Do different and better ‘ audiophile ‘ components in a DAC play a role?
Forgive my long message, but it would be great to have these questions asked. Something beyond what different filters do to the sound
Much appreciated !
Cheers
All great questions and I definitely would love to find someone to discuss that. I'm always on the lookout for new opportunities so if I can find the right person, I'll gladly explore some of that.
@@PassionforSound I can’t tell you how much I would and others would appreciate that.
I found that when I was modifying my Marshall tube guitar amps and changing components , values etc , that gave me the knowledge to tell someone what does what to the sound and feel of the amp.
I feel like someone who builds DACs could answer the same. Because they do have a specific layout which they have for making their DAC, then they tweak it.
Well what do they hear when they tweak it? Or tweak certain parts of it?
What changes sound wise?
And a good question also would be to one of these manufacturers , “ if price wasn’t a variable, what would you do to make the absolute best sounding DAC you can?”
I mean we have got to the point where there are now measurements. You made an excellent video with three other people including Goldensound, going over that aspect. Which was smart. Hats off to you.
But which measurements make a difference and how? When we say, “ one dac had good weight to the instruments”. Well what contributes to that?
It’s obvious from that conversation you had and the point we are at, that many more questions need to be asked and for those to be answered.
Here’s another question “ can negative feedback be measured in an analog output stage of a DAC? If it can, what affect does that have ?
I think Currawong also eluded to Slew Rate. Why is that not measured in the analog output stages of DACs? I am pretty sure that does make an audible difference in attack.
Anyway mate, I know you get where I am coming from. SINAD has got to a point where it’s almost not worth looking at, unless something is seriously wrong.
There is more here that we need to find out. And that video you did on Beyond measurements was about the BEST video created for this subject.
I super appreciate even that fact that you read my comment and respond.
Hope all is well
Cheers
Great points all round!
@@PassionforSound aaaaand I talk way to much for a 53 year old. Lol
Have a great weekend man !
@@PassionforSound Also forgot to tell you. Brother, you really need to try the Marantz HD DAC1. You will only find it used now. As a headphone amp it’s ok, but as a DAC it’s great. Not typical Marantz rolled off.
Yes it’s old but I still haven’t found a DAC that I like more and I’ve tried a lot.
For me it excels at timbre.
It’s cheap now used and from one musician to another trust me on this one. It’s good. It does benefit a bit from an USB galvanic isolator my ears tell me. But I think you will be surprised
Weird I thought the J2 and the Modi+ sounded really really different, with the J2 having a lot more treble and muscle and it took me a while to get used to coming off the Modi+. Though I did have the AKM version of the J2. The Modi+ sounds more “normal” to me, while the J2 sounds more powerful and detailed but was less relaxed and comfortable to me, and more harsh. (I ended up replacing both with the 2/64 which I think clocks them both.) I paired all of them with the RebelAmp.
I considered getting the J2 but turned out they do not ship to my country, so I settled with Modi Multibit 2. I heard the J2 has more clarity and details, but I am very satisfied with the Modi Multibit 2 as they sound so natural and engaging, I believe it is called having a great timbre in the audiophile community? But I was thrown off at how terrible it sounded out of the box, the mid-bass is so bloated it muddied the music up. I was very disappointed, left it on over the night and I don't really know what happened but the mid-bass lighten up and the soundstage opened up. Funny experience, I have read a lot of Modi Multibit users experiencing the same.
@@kato2395 ive heard MMB needs substantial burn in. Can you tell how long the warm up time is?
I've got the J2 AKM coming soon so I can include the Modi+ in that review as a comparison.
As for the MMB2, the warm-up time is minimal and it doesn't change significantly after powering on (once burned in), but the initial burn-in can take quite a few hours on some devices. I just ran MMB2 and Modi+ pretty consistently on my desk for a few weeks before this review so I didn't test the sound immediately to notice the burn-in or lack of. I DID notice it on the Bifrost 2/64 upgrade card though and that was with an already burned-in output stage.
@@peytonsnead3114 mine took overnight of it being turned on to get it nice and clear sounding
@@muahaha5929 Thank you!
The new Depeche Mode album will sound great through the heretic ….I have the modius and magnius
Really appreciated your gaming perspective. Would you say the Multibit sound in general isn't great for gaming, or just the MM2?
I think it depends on what you're after. For FPS games and similar, BF2, Gumby and Yggy could all work well I think because they're less smooth than MMB2, but those wanting a really sharp and detailed sound for placement of sounds might prefer delta sigma DACs still. I'm not a big gamer these days so apologies that I don't have a firm answer.
I can't imagine using a Multibit for gaming. I'd go with the sharper, faster Modi delta sigma for that. I use the Multibit for deep, immersive listening to ultra-well recorded music (Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Alan Parsons, jazz, classical, acid folk, etc) as it's microdetails really come out without visual stimulation in a dark room while I use the delta sigma Modi for harder and more modern sounds.
That makes total sense!
I can still hear "Schiit" 🤣🤣
Was a good move moving the pot away from the HP output; distortion problems with the Magni3+, pity they didn't do that + the 3 gain stages before. After 7 Schiit purchases, I probably wont get anymore; left with obsolete second rate version's that sell for a lot less second hand.
Good review, thanks 👍👍
Yeah, my theory was that the noise would just prevent UA-cam's bots from getting cranky about the language and demonetising me.
As for the products, Schiit have released a few updates to the micro range I've the last few years, triggered by a couple of factors as I understand. Their higher level gear seems less prone to these updates, but I understand the concern.
@@PassionforSound Yes they haven't updated Freya+, Gungnir MB or Aegir's...yet. Like Topping, they do offer great value for money. Thank you for your response ✌😎✌ BTW, I bought Verum1 mk2 on the strength of your review, so thanks again! 👍 please keep up the good work.
So glad I've been able to help! 🙂🙂
Thanks for this video. I was trying to decide between the Modi+ and the MB2. I guess the Modi+ it is...
Glad I could help! Hard to go wrong either way 🙂
hey, do you think that a stack like this(or any stack/ dac/amp, or dongle) can match or beat the chord mojo2? Specifically for the HD800S, u12t, and ie600(which I ended up getting with based on your recommendation) ? I am based on pure sound quality and synergy for my lineup, Ideally something without micro USB and perhaps cheaper than the mojo 2(650usd)? Thanks
The Mojo 2 is about on par with the Bifrost 2 so a Magni/Modi stack is still a fair way behind on sound quality I'm afraid.
Thanks, I was not sure about the Mojo 2 but it sounds like a nice pairing for my headphone and iems, especially to get the most out of the HD800s; I was really tempted with the Schiit or SMSL SU-6 & SH-6 stack, but the fact that mojo has the desktop mode can make it my one and only solution@@PassionforSound
Yep. That's what I would choose of those options. Enjoy!
@@PassionforSound Thanks! Just one more thing if you can. I came across a Diana v2 for under 1.8 USD. I like the form factor because it's somewhat portable, I know you don't recommend it for 3.5k, but what about 1.8? and does the Mojo 2 drive it to their potential?
For that money, I'd personally prefer the DCA Aeon Noire. I can't bring myself to recommend the Diana at any price really...
So none of these have USB-C as input? How would one connect an iPhone via Lightning? I want to use my iPhone to stream Lossless music but I am bit beginner in which Schiit model to choose as a single device without the need to stack.
The Modi+ and Modi Multibit 2 both use USB-C input. I don't use apple so I'm not sure what's required to connect to a USB-C DAC.
In case you're not aware, the DAC will need an amp after it as these don't have any kind of headphone output built in. You can buy devices that have both DAC and headphone amp though so consider exactly what you need and feel free to ask more if it's unclear still.
@@PassionforSound love that you are helping your commenters. Kudos. I watched Joshua Valour’s review of IEMagni and it that video he explains that you can just use Apple Lightning to 3.5 mm dongle and connect it directly to Magni without the need for Modi. I also read that some people say that the output voltage from the Apple Dongle is a bit on the low side so they are not impressed how it works with just using the IPhone with the dongle connected to a Magni Amp. If you have tried that in one of your videos pls let me know.
Ah, yes. You can definitely do that with any amplifier. Whether it's the ample dongle or another compatible one. If you max the volume on the phone (or at least 95-99%) it should be plenty loud enough for most headphones.
hi.. im waiting for the 6xx witch i m gonna drive with a fiio k5 pro ess.. do you think the topping dx5 beat the fiio by far in general terms and if you can suggest some other upgrade over the fiio i will pleased to hear.. thanks
FiiO K5 Pro will be great. I haven't compared it to the DX5, but the DX5 might be a little better. Beyond those two, something like an SMSL M500 Mk3 is probably the next step.
@@PassionforSound thanks.. Has plenty of power and i m running thr beyer 250 ohm without problems.. But I hope for thr 6xx thr quality of thr dac can bring thr best
You won't quite get the very best from the HD6xx, but it will sound wonderful with the K5 or DX5 and then you can go even higher in the future if you want to - the HD6xx scale incredibly well
Great review. Would the Modi+/Heretic combo be a bit too lean/bright sounding?
I don't think so. Neither is overly lean or aggressive. I'd probably go for the Modi+ and Magni+ myself for the best of both worlds, but no reason to avoid the Modi/Heretic combo
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the reply--I already have an Asgard 3 which is probably similar to the Magni+, thinking the Heretic would give a bit more speed/clarity.
Yes, the Heretic will definitely do that. Asgard 3 is a bit richer and warmer than the Magni+ so it depends on how far you want to go back towards neutrality/'clinicality' (you can't go wrong with Magni+ or Heretic IMO)
@@PassionforSound Were you able to compare the Heretic to the previous Heresy? Just curious if there's a noticeable difference(or improvement). Certainly nice to have the new protection circuit.
I reviewed a Heresy in the past, but I don't recall the version and didn't have it on hand to compare. I did like the Heretic more though 🙂
what about the schiit stack and the J2 dac with the AKM chip?
I'm hoping to receive the J2 in the near future and look forward to reviewing it then
could I trust the magni+ modi+ combo for professional work ? looking to drive my lcd-x with it
I think it will be a great option for pro work. Clean, detailed and neutral while not getting harsh for extended use.
How does this stack compare to fiio k7? Thanks for the video
The K7 is great (I'm reviewing it right now), but the Schiit Stack (Modi+ and Magni+/Heretic) will perform slightly better. I'll discuss in my review how the K7 and Schiit Syn compare. The Syn is kind of like a Modi+ with a Magni in the same housing so it's a good indicator.
@@PassionforSound definitely will watch and like (;
Thanks for the reviews
🙏
How would you say Magni? compares to Jotunheim 2?
They're clearly related, but Jotunheim 2 is punchier and more resolving 🙂
@@PassionforSound Would you say the magnitude of difference is akin to that of Modi => Bifrost?
I haven't compared them side-by-side, but yes, that's probably about right
It’s now 2023 and their website still says out of stock. That’s bad management
Sorry to hear that they're still out of stock. I wonder if it's run by Schiit or a third party (not making excuses, just curious)
you think is possible to connect this to a scarlet 2i2?
I think you could connect an amp to the 2i2 using the outputs on the back, but I've never tried. You'd need TRS to RCA cables or adapters (TRS out of the 2i2, RCA into the amps)
bro thank you so much for responding, you think i can just connect the magni to the scarlet headphone slot (not the ones on the back) you think it will work or not at all, i wanted to use the normal trs channel because im using the back ones on some monitor speakers
I think you could. You'd just need to setup the headphone monitoring volume to a suitable level for the downstream amp. You'll need to play with that a bit to get it right
What does a DAC do?
A DAC takes the data provided from a computer, phone, or other device playing music files (including streamed music from Spotify, etc.) and turns that data into the signal that our headphones/speakers can play for us to listen to.
DAC stands for Digital to Analog Converter:
Digital - the data on our computers, etc.
Analog - the musical waveforms that we want to listen to
@@PassionforSound does it take sound from a streamer such as a Wiim?
Absolutely. You can output optical or coaxial to the DAC depending on the version of the WiiM you're using. (WiiM Mini only has optical)
The Wimi Pro has an upgraded DAC that is noticeably better than the DAC in the Wimi mini.
How’s the J2 vs MMB2?
They're quite different. J2 ESS is more like Modi+ only a tiny bit more resolving so the MMB2 vs Modi+ comparison is much the same as the MMB2 vs J2 ESS
What about the Loki and the Lokius?
They are equalizers.
@@mariodrv I know, would still be nice to see a review of them sometime
@@StoneColdClassics
Then the Loki Max too.
I would love to try the EQs, but also try to not ask for too much as Schiit have already been very generous sending these out for review
@@PassionforSound that’s understandable. In your experience do different EQs sound different? Like say you tuned everything identically would the Lokius sound different than the Loki Max? Since they’re both 6 band EQs Are you really paying $1200 extra for a remote and an upgraded potentiometer? I apologize that it’s off topic or if it’s an obvious answer but the thought has been in my mind lately. Thanks in advance
Is magni plus/modi plus a good choice for HD600？
Yes, that will sound great! The HD600 can sound even better with higher level gear, but you don't NEED to go higher as the Modi/Magni stack will be wonderful as it is
@@PassionforSound thank you！🙏
@@PassionforSound I'm just curious. If I want to go further, what would you recommend?
@@N1ubility with HD600, something like an xDuoo TA-26S is lovely, but somewhat limited for other headphones if you plan on getting others. The Schiit Asgard 3 is also great or the Geshelli Labs A3 Pro is amazing!
@@PassionforSound Thank you so much！😘
Please review Fiio K7 and compare it to Multibit if possible
I'll see if the opportunity presents in the future
Holy squeak! I get having to blank it out, but that sound just rips through my ears. Sorry, passing on this video.
Sorry about that! Thankfully, UA-cam have changed the rules again so I can go back to being uncensored.
@@PassionforSound No problem. I like your videos in general.
I gave up on this company a few years ago as I couldn’t buy any of there products in Uk. There uk website always out of stock products
They had a tough run of supply through COVID. Things might be different now, but I'm not sure.
There is a post on another audio review channel that has an email from Schiit reps stating that their DACs are designed with no intended audio differences.
There is no output difference between top end Ygg and bottom end Modi
That's complete rubbish (sorry to be blunt). Jason discussed in an interview on this channel that they ran blind testing with their three current Yggy versions and how all three sounded different.
@@PassionforSound no apology necessary for bluntness, I was posting about this to engage in discussion. There is a large contingency of people who say all DACs sound the same and should sound the same, with expensive DACs being an intentional scam.
As someone who was considering a BF2 I'd be pretty disappointed if there's no intended difference between it and any other of their DAC products (not including ports etc)
Sadly, the people making those claims fall into one of two categories: a) they've never actually tried these DACs for themselves or b) they are so firmly wedded to the idea that they are tricking themselves into hearing no difference. Actually, there's also a third possibility which is that they might be trying a high end DAC with a lower level amp and/or headphone that's restricting the maximum performance.
There's no doubt to me that DACs have less of a dramatic improvement from top to bottom than amps and then even more so with headphones, but the BF2/64 is a great example where the difference is not subtle compared to either Modi+ or MMB2 🙂
I WISH the VALI was in the mix on this review
Yeah, I still haven't heard a Vali.
Is there a dog with a squeaky toy there?
Yes. I think Lachlan steps on it at all the right moments, well, almost the right moments.
@@peytonsnead3114 I hope he doesn't step on the dog..
@@razisn well if we hear a bark...
🐕
Yeah.
I don't really like my Magni 3+.
A have topping L30 and xDuoo MT-602
(amongst a few others)
and I like the Magni 3+ the least.
I didn't really find a reasonable usage for it
where it would excel the other ones.
All my stuff makes preamping better
and sounds better with headphones.
I didn't really understand the hype of it.
Maybe it pairs the best with the
Sennheiser HD 6xx headphones
amongst my ones.
I like their power with the HD 6xx
headphones.
Those hungry bst@dz can learn
their real places with the Magni.
Which power doesn't show using
it as a preamp.
I wouldn't throw it away
(I like it's look :),
but I had to put fate in Schiit
to get the Loki after the Magni.
But I have Loki Mini+ as well,
and that gives exactly what was promised
and expected by me.
I don't have any other EQ,
so maybe it's not so great
in a global sense,
but I like it very - very much.
It is really transparent (for my ears,
not a measurement)
when it is switched off or bypassing,
and it gives a significant, easily controllable
clean tone shift when it's switched to do that.
It's a very precious thing.
I like it very much.
Oh, and a last complaint.
What is this idi@cy not putting
on/off switches on the front panel ?
They designed it to be always on,
or they think that anybody will reach
the switches at the rear panel ?
It seems absolutely stpd
to me.
The power switch on the back has been talked about to death. It keeps the circuit simple and clean (not running power back and forth across the PCB) and is kind of a thing for Schiit now (I'm not a fan either).
As for the Magni+, it sounds like you would prefer the Heretic if you like the L30II more, but because you have the L30II, there's no need to get the Heretic 🙂
@@PassionforSound
_"... It keeps the circuit simple and clean ..."_
Yeah.
I'm not satisfied with that answer,
sorry Schiit. :)
It's like making the gearshift
at the back seats if the engine is
at the back.
_"... and is kind of a thing for Schiit now ..."_
Yeah.
Let us make it to be a style now. :)
And the Apple mouse is charged
with a cable plugged from the bottom
of the mouse while you cannot even use it
while charging, FFS. :)
_"... there's no need to get the Heretic ..."_
Yeah.
Finally I got a bunch
of cheap amps,
I'm pretty happy with them.
I need no more.
You could try pronouncing, “Schiit” another way by saying the word, “hit” clearly after the “Sc”. Silent “c”…😁
I started off doing that, but it took too much brain power while I was also trying to discuss the ins and outs of the products
So funny, lol
Schiit!!! 🤣
🍴🦆
Eating duck?
@@PassionforSound 👍
37+minutes of oddiophil bs
Schiit: "Say my name"
😂
Hello, I have a marantz 6006 and Klipsch RP500 M speakers. What DAC do you recommend to connect to my laptop. I currently have an e30. Budget up to 300-400 dollars. Thank you and all praise.
I don't know your amp and speakers, but for that kind of budget, the Topping E50 is really nice as are the Geshelli Labs J2 and Schiit Modi Multibit 2.
@@PassionforSound I am in Europe and they are very difficult to find, and American products are much more expensive. Thank you
Lachlan 👍👍👍
You are great at making youtube reviews! First video i've seen of you :)🎉
Thank you! I'm glad you liked the video 🙂