I feel almost the same way about characters dying in finales. If everyone survives I always feel like there is something missing, like the author wasn't "brave" enough to do that to the fans. I am especially annoyed, when there is a character who died and suddenly he's alive again, even though I'm happy at the same time ;P On the other hand I also don't like characters dying if I get the feeling they were just killed of to shock the reader. The Autor who always perfectly walks the line for me is Brandon Sanderson, there may be some characters who die but it always makes sense :)
dude yes, I honestly find crying to finales extremely cathartic and I love wrapups that really go for the feelings. I totally agree with the idea of loss in books. When theres a huge battle but no loss, I feel like it's a cop out on the authors part because they're afraid of upsetting fans- which is understandable but still!
I completely agree with you about head cannons being better. I am horrible at finishing series in general lol, but when I do, I'm always left disappointed. I have yet to give a finale anything over 3 stars.
I totally agree with you! Why would you be scared for these characters to die if you know they survive everything all the time? I loved THG so much because of that bittersweet ending. And that is also why I enjoy GoT so much. It's realistic and it keeps things excited. You are never sure who is going to survive. Love that!
It's a rare series that triumphs over a conclusion. Luckily those arw the most memorable. Reading is an exercise in finding those rare stories that embed themselves in your soul.
This wig/lipstick combo is very Evil Queen, which (aside from being amazing!) had me laughing so much when you were saying that you don't want bad things to happen to the characters, but.....you do. I definitely have issues with finales, probably for similar reasons to what you talk about. Since I usually read fantasy/sci-fi stuff, bad stuff is going down in these books, and when somehow every single person comes out of it on the other side, it doesn't seem genuine. I will say, there have been series where everyone lives and it seemed realistic, but those are rare, in my opinion. The Old Kingdoms trilogy, which I read in its entirety last year, had one of my favourite endings, and I won't pretend that the fact that I sobbed for like an hour afterwards didn't have anything to do with that. *sigh*
+thebookwitchscauldron THANK YOU :) Exactly! Especially if there is a large cast of characters, if everyone ends up surviving, I just don't believe it.
honestly you explained my feelings about finales so accurately. whenever I complain about the non-existent deaths in final movies or books my friends think I'm evil or that I enjoy watching my faves die. like no, I don't want them to die I just think they need to for a book to be realistic and emotional lol
I agree with absolutely everything you said. I struggle with finales when they feel unrealistic or don't hit me emotionally too. I also felt disappointed by The Winner's Kiss even thought everyone else seems to love it, so it's nice to see that someone agrees.
I feel the same way about finales and character dying. I never want character to die but at the same time they are often in dangerous situations and it would be expected to lose someone. So I totally agree with that! Also I love to be a pile of emotions. It just makes it better to me.
I totally agree with you. It makes sense for people to be lost in these 'epic' conclusions. If everyone survives I just feel like it's a cop out and not 'realistic'. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Totally agree with everything you said. For me in regards to the Winner's Trilogy my favorite is definitely the Winner's Crime as well. I really enjoyed the finale and appreciated how it ended but since the second was so strong it left me expecting a little bit more from the third. Still overall, such a well-done trilogy! I feel like I started to notice my lack of satisfaction with finales when it came to the Hunger Games trilogy. My favorite in the trilogy is definitely Catching Fire and for me I felt Mockingjay just lacked I didn't hate the book because of the deaths just felt it fell short compared to Catching Fire. Loved this discussion video xx
The beginning of MJ was just strange and super slow... like the whole first half when the other two there was so much more going on at that point. Which I think really brought it down Catching Fire is also my favorite.
I can have issues with that as well. A couple series that had amazing finales is the Gemma Doyle trilogy and Mistborn :) those give you the punch you want. I just also think too some series don't need to be trilogies...you can tell a vast, awesome story without stretching it thin into three books. I think that's one small problem with YA sometimes. Great video idea :)
I totally agree that books with huge wars and battles need a loss of a major character. I need that emotional reaction to connect to a series of books. With Winter, I was expecting a main character to die, but I was kind of relieved when it didn't happen. It's a weird feeling being pulled in two opposing directions. But in the case of Winter, I realized that Marissa Meyer made the choice possibly because the Lunar Chronicles is a fairy tale retelling and while she strayed from the classic fairy tales, the made the choice to keep the happily ever after intact.
I totally agree with you about character deaths. Like, I want them to be okay, but at the same time I don't because it's not really realistic if they are and I honestly love being a puddle of feels as well.😁
Watching this video hurts me more that you haven't finished the Mistborn series yet! I'm dying to hear your thoughts because I feel that that would be a "satisfying" finale bc I agree with everything you just said.
For the most part I'm usually happy with how series' and finales wrap up. There's normally the death of the evil character in fantasy series/trilogies. I don't read much YA contemporary because I get bored in them but with adult contemporaries there's normally a cute/hot male character to swoon over so that gets me through. Same with most of the fantasies that I like to read tbh.
My response to a finale depends on how emotionally attached I have been to the characters, sometimes I enjoy a book for the plot/world building and I have not invested in the characters to care. When I have been emotionally invested with characters and their struggles, I too enjoy a realistic ending and rarely accept happily ever after endings (unless it is expected from the style of book) - if the ending makes sense in the context of the world/story/plot/character arc then I accept it.
Not to be argumentative, but I personally found winter to be very satisfying. It ended beautifully with that scence with Kai and cinder. It was a great way to wrap up the series, in my opinion. I also loved cress and Thorne in that book. I think everyone will agree that they are so adorable!
+Thoughts on tomes The lunar chronicles are probably in my top five favorites list of all time. But I had a friend who read it and she didn't really like it because she found the robots and all the sci-fi stuff to be really weird. I was surprised, because we have very similar reading tastes. She liked the fault in our stars, (which I know you don't like, which breaks my heart! But, I still like your videos), the hunger games, and the selection, which I enjoyed. But, I get really defensive about the lunar chronicles when anyone insults it, lol...
I'm kind of in the same boat in that when second books are done well they are almost always my favourites. I think I'm usually pretty satisfied with finales but I totally get what you're saying - I've definitely felt it before. I had always put it down to just wanting to stay with the characters more. But what you said about expecting more character death is also so true. Sometimes it just feels too neat and happy considering how high the stakes were and it makes it unbelievable and takes me out of the story a little bit. I actually really appreciate it when an important character is killed off and like you said that's why Mockingjay is believable (I'm of the pretty unpopular opinion of loving mockingjay more than the first book what w/e).
I agree with you that if you have a long time to think about books, then they have the potential to disappoint you more. I sometimes pick up on what I think are hints within the previous book, and get excited about that direction, and then feel let down when I realise that the series wasn't going that way at all.
That was interesting :D. Well, from the things you said i got the feeling that you are mainly dissapointed for two reasons. The first one is because you have so big expectations for the ending combibing with the second one, which is wanting the finalle to be the peak of the storyline. Friendly tip, sometimes it is about the story and not the ending. Sometimes the ending is about what has already happened. We are complete opposites on this subject. I kind of like soft endings. Stress - free and kind endings, i love them. I have made up my mind everytime to just accept what may come in a book. This is what the person who has written this story has to offer me, this is what feels right, what feels good to them, i am willing to accept it and be thankful for it. I will not agree most of the time, but i will just sit for a while, try to understand. It's their brain, it's their idea, it's their work, it's their story. They just let us in, share it with us. They write bcz they need to, they write to put their souls on paper. Most of the time they cannot kill their characters and it just makes sense. We, as viewers, love the characters so much. Just think about how much the author loves them. If you created a character out of nothing, if it was yours from beggining to end, even when there would be many people reading the book, they would still be yours from begging to end. Would you just kill them for no reason? I am really sorry for the huge comment, i didn't intend it to be this big.
Oh cool, I'm about to start the Mistborn series! (finally finally FINALLY) And I absolutely loathe the first book of The Magicians trilogy, but I've heard the finale is great, so I'm thinking about giving the series another shot. Thanks for letting me know!
That's really interesting. I want finales that fit the build up for the book. SO like, with Winter, I was satisfied because it's a fairy tale retelling and it takes sense for things to be tied up as nicely as they were. But I would have liked more of a punch from Ruin and Rising, because of all the violence and threats built in to the plot over the previous books. I also generally marathon book series - I HATE waiting for books to come out. So, I think that it helps me to be more okay with the author's intention because I don't generally have time to build a head cannon. :)
Honestly my problem with Winter was how little romance there was in it, I mean I know that is not the main point of the story. But I was a little upset by the lack of it, then there was something involving Levana made me upset. Because it wasn't as climatic as I thought it would be, and I kind of wanted it to go differently as well.
+gracefulbooks same. i kind of wished there was more of a "wrap up" for Winter and Jacin. I know there relationship has been "on hold" for a decade, so it seems right that nothing more would have happened, but i still selfishly wanted more to have happened. And Levana was vanquished far too easily. After all that for her to finally break down and be defeatable? I don't know, i just didn't believe it
You know for a series which a whole lot of romance.... not one couple slept together which I think is a pity... it probably would have helped the finale. I was pretty underwhelmed with the wh
+gracefulbooks Winter was a struggle for me because she packed so many characters in it that none really got enough time. I think that's why the romance was so lacking. For a long book, she ran out of time.
I don't think anyone suffered as much as Cinder to be honest but either way. I had the most problem with the way the revolution was handled as a whole more than even the lavana thing. The blacking out and then not seeing it from another perspective I think was the worst tho.... That's what felt most abrupt. We didn't see aftermath.
Amelle Kyre I felt like Wolf suffered through way more than Cinder did, like Cinder basically had no recollection of her past life. Even after she got told what happened to her or she realized what happened. Wolf suffered through so much, he is permanently scarred in a horrible way-I know Cinder is a cyborg but thats better than being altered into a man beast and ripped away from he women you love only to be transformed more and turned into a puppet for evil. Like i admit Cinder went through some series crap but Wolf I feel went through so much more than her.
I think for book endings I usually feel satisfied. I don't think that I feel like it was a let down or that it didn't live up to my expectations - I think it usually exceeds them. But I understand where you're coming from and I think that it's interesting to see your perspective.
I agree so much about the losses! It makes it less realistic for me as well. Most recent example for me was Library of Souls. I haven't been in love with the trilogy anyway but in this one there was constantly something horrible happening and the villain finally took over and then someone came and saved the day and so on and so forth and in the end everyone (except the villain of course) came out fine. It's so weird and really doesn't make sense. And until this day I feel like the death at the end of Mockingjay was.. necessary. It's what makes this trilogy so.. tragic? And it really feels like a full circle.
I think if you are looking for something to really put at the heartstrings and leave you in a pile of feels Mistborn will be your series. I love the ending and yet scream in sadness
I also like the second book in a series so much more than any books! I usually do love the finale of a series a lot but they're a couple finales that aren't my favourites in the series. For example Mockingjay and Allegiant! I liked both of these finales but I preferred the other books more.
I completely agree when you talk about having time to theorize. It's almost like if I am given the time to come up with how I think the story should go (and how I hope and wish the author will take it!), I get attached to that idea even though that is not my choice to make. As for character deaths and losses, I'm interested in seeing them even before the finale. In these stories about wars and conflicts, I don't think that the deaths need to be tied up in the end to kind of solidify a point. From start to finish, those losses will occur in the "realistic" setting, and I want to see them from start to finish!
I know what you mean, I usually love first books the most though. I think that often authors build up such a bad situation for their characters that the ending feels unrealistic because they try to wrap up three books worth of problems in like 100 pages at the end. I'm the same as you though I think I get most disappointed when I have to wait for a book because I build up too much expectation for the finale, if I marathon a series I usually just go with it because I'm caught up in the story. I love your discussion videos by the way your topics are always things I'm thinking about but don't have anyone to vent to :)
I have separation anxiety, even with books. So I just cry and cry when I finish series (TV, books, and movies), for example: Harry Potter, Friends, The Infernal Devices, The Hunger Games etc.) I cried for DAYS after I finished the Harry Potter series and also Friends. Of course I can just re-read/watch the series but it's not gonna be the same, you know?
YES! Finales need death! Lol, sounds awful, but unless the series takes place in a contemporary setting, death is a needed part in fantasy/sc-fi. It just wouldn't make sense for everyone important to the story to make it out 100% fine after all the stuff they go through. Even if no one dies, I find it super unrealistic when the characters don't sustain major injuries (someone losing a limb, or maybe their vision etc). For a finale in fantasy/sci-fi there needs to be some sort of major loss for me to care about it. I really love the ending to Mockingjay because there are some hard-hitting deaths, and the characters left alive are also deeply changed after the events from the book. It had its flaws, but I think the author really took the risks needed with those deaths to make a meaningful conclusion.
So many finales have disappointed me and it is often because authors forget/drop major storylines which leaves me feeling underwhelmed because you've built x up but x didn't matter in the end? *sighs* Also the lack of loss is jarring, I like to get hit in the feels *shrugs*. I agree with many of your points. I still am a 100 pages into winter and have no desire to finish which is disappointing :(
I can relate to this so much! For me it's usually the epilogue that disappoints me. I just can't bare the idea of everything being ok in the end, after all that has happened. It feels so unrealistic...
You've expressed a lot of the same thoughts I have about second books and finales. Second books (or mid series sequels) are past that initial immersion into a new world, and usually work to build the stakes leading up to the final outcome. We know these characters and are invested at this point, yet there is still so much potential for how things play out. When done well, 2nd books are a great blend of familiarity and excitement. With finales, I'm always wanting character deaths if the series is about a war or revolution. Winter was completely unrealistic for me because it lacked the true stakes of war, which is what it was really about. Although, it's a fairy tale retelling so I guess it had to follow a formula, but I still feel ya on it just not taking it all the way there. The Winner's Kiss was my least favorite in the series too. It was a very thorough ending, taking time to wrap things up, but I didn't feel like it took many risks.
I found the ending to Winter disappointing because I developed a theory on how it was going to end based on one throwaway line part way through the book. And then it didn't end my way and I was grumpy... I also tend to love the middle book of a trilogy the most when it's done well, and - like you - Crown of Embers is a perfect example of that.
I agree 100%. I felt the same way for all of the series endings as you. And for Shatter Me, I stopped at the beginning of book 2. Guess I need to continue reading that! Met Marie Rutoski today. eek!!!!!!! #fangirl
I love or like finales usually.I think there is more original ways to invoke emotion then killing off characters or breaking beloved couples up.I have no problem with there being injuries to major characters in a battle just not deaths.
I had a similar thought about the lack of losses in Winter. I got about halfway through it and it dawned on me that one of the cast would die, and I was heartbroken and cried...and then I finished the book and everyone was still alive... Finales need to pack an emotional punch and I agree that Winter didn't deliver on that part!
See I could tell immediately no one was going to die it felt so obvious to me, but I thought the whole revolution thing just wasent very well done and I wanted to skip all of it and get to the "Happy Endings" cause I knew they were there.
I agree with you about the whole revolution. I really enjoyed reading Winter, but looking back at it, I can see that there were definitely a few faults.
I agree about the finales. The best series finale for me was The Deathly Hallows, and I think this was due to years of planning by J.K. Rowling. It's definitely realistic for prominent characters to die in a finale. I was sad about the deaths in Mockingjay but, it's The Hunger Games so it was expected. I think the thing with finales is some authors tend to stretch the story on for longer than they should go.
My struggle is feeling like these finales wrap up too neatly. Like the books before the finale in the series all had big climaxes that left me with a racing heart, and then the last book's finale is just like....well, everything's gonna work out because everything is going to neatly fall into place and the bad guy will be vanquished in a way that doesn't seem believable. This is not all series, but a lot of which I've read. And I just usually expect the big finale to constantly have me gasping and grabbing my chest. So if it doesn't, I'm kind of just like.....okay well, that was a nice ending i guess. And i don't want to say a book's last finale was just "nice". I want to say that it had me screaming, or crying, or dancing, or something else that will make me look insane to any bystanders. So I'm very nervous about The Raven King coming out in a few days!!! The series so far has been so perfect to me. I've never read a Maggie Stiefvater series before so I honestly don't know what to expect from her as a series finale. So my fingers are quadruple crossed!!
Just wait for The Hero of Ages by Brandon Sanderson..... You'll see. IT'S ONE OF THE MOST EPIC CONCLUSION I'VE EVER READ. It's my favourite closure just after the Deathly Hollows...
have you read The Mistborn trilogy? that's one series where the finale definitely met my expectations, and perhaps even surpassed them. such a conclusive and great ending to a wonderful series.
+WellDoneBooks I need to finish the series. I've read the first book and adored it but haven't gotten around to the other two. I'm so happy it has a satisfying conclusion. That motivates me to get to them even sooner.
Barring Legend, Half Bad, Septimus Heap and The Chronicles of the Imaginarium Geographica, finales tend to be my favourite books in series. I agree with you on deaths, but there are times when characters are killed just for the sake of having a character death such as in (spoiler) Crooked Kingdom, Angels Twice Descending and Half Lost. The deaths in those books were completely pointless. Mathias' death didn't even make sense for the story. He was literally the one character who had to survive to complete his arc, but no he died because he was the least popular of the six.
Usually finales are either hit or miss for me. I can't help having high expectations on it as much as I want to avoid it. Character deaths on finale = it depends. Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes... "it's wtf why?" The finale I'm really satisfied with is Into the Still Blue by Veronica Rossi.
I'm so torn between "it's a war or a battle, they can't all survive" and "Don't you dare let x die!" ;) - I can't decide so that's my struggle with finales because I feel I can't be pleased either way; but I totally get your point and I tend to not like it that much if anything comes together too nicely and everyone is a ball of joy at the end. And in general I don't do that good with endings.
For me it really depends on what it is and the feel of the series. If its something like The Lunar Chronicles where its a big romance thing and fairy tales and stuff I am totally okay if no one ends up dead. But if I'm reading something that feels darker and as such there should be death but the ending is a fluff fest I will be disappointed. I feel like it really really depends on the series.
Or if they really really build up the suspense like the constantly allude to the fact (in subtle ways) that not everyone can make out alive and you worry and then everyone does... It can be annoying to worry for nothing or the answer to everyone living is to simple just... I'm thinking of one particular Riordan finale.
I've only been let down by two sequels. One of them being "Beautiful Redemption" and that one is because I really hated the direction the story took. The other one that slightly disappointed me is "Champion" by Marie Lu. I did really enjoy the book but I needed more closure at the end. Overall though I usually adore finales. Lot's of times they end up being my favorite book of the series. And I think that is because I try not to overthink about the stories and build them up in my mind. The only finale I am terrified of is when Sarah J. Maas wraps up the Throne of Glass series.
I FELT THE SAME WAY ABOUT THE WINNER'S KISS but it really depends on the finale for me. I can either love or feel let down by finales but usually there's no in between, except for The Winner's Kiss, where I was satisfied with it and it was a good book but it wasn't as good as the other books for me.
I feel the same!!! Loved Siege and Storm thought Ruin and Rising was just good not great. I liked The Winner's Crime more than Curse (haven't read Kiss yet) and Winter... I gave it a three.... It felt rushed I mean the revolution happens in like two, three days.... and that was it. I'm frequently disappointed by finales as well. My Exception is The Seven Realms series. The Crimson Crown is my favorite finale ever and its one of my favorite series. I loved sooooo much which just doesn't happen with finales usually. The only other one would The Last Olympian for the Percy Jackson series. It is awesome. Of course it did leave me with a hint that there was more to come from this world.
I'm the same way. I prefer my finales to be Harry Potter/Allegiant death scenes because when the baddie dies and the goodies ride off into the sunset without much devastation, (Ruin and Rising/Breaking Dawn) it's like really? The second book is normally my fave, even when I love the finales. Although a lot of the time, I don't even finish series.
I don't read a ton of series, but I am usually pretty ok with the finales that I have read. The very end of the Hunger games not withstanding, and I felt that some characters in that were killed off for shock value. As a writer I definitely feel that every character you kill should mean something. I honestly hate the "and then he died, and she died, and he died, because this is WAR, son!" mentality. I know. I know. That way is more realistic, but I can never just kill of characters offhandedly in battle. It has to make sense for the story and be for a reason. Anyway, I digress. I personally like a lot of the drama and hardship to happen in a middle book. There should def. be some in the finale too, but middle books often slump, as you said, almost like they're afraid to do too much. Finales get shit done, but it could have been spread out into the middle book a bit more. Well look at that, I digressed again. I should probably stop before I don't make any sense at all.
I do get excited about finales but I usually find them really disappointing. And for me its normally because the main character and their love interest end up living happily ever after and I think that that is a massive cop out. For example, I loved Ruin and Rising it was a great finale until Mal lived and went off with Alina to have a happily ever after. Sigh. I disliked Mockingjay for the same reason. Whereas I liked the ending to Allegiant because there was a finality to it. I really enjoyed this and it really got me thinking about finales haha! :)
I'm totally opposite I don't like deaths in finales I just feel like there can be other ways to evoke an array of emotions without killing off everyone. I mean sometimes it's understandable in dire circumstanes; but other times I'm completely destroyed by it.
It really depeds on what the series is, how fast I'm reading it, what mood I'm in, how much time I hat to theorise before reading it, etc. For the most part, finales are kind of meh for me, the only exceptions to the rule being Dreams of Gods & Monsters, Mockingjay and maybe Gallagher Girls and Ignite Me. I haven't read that many series to begin with, but the ones I did read left me wanting more/less/a different thing all together. A prime example for this would be Ruin & Rising (still bitter about it) and the Harry Potter epilogue (please don't kill me). Like you said, I want everything to fit the story and if it's a war, I don't think everyone-is-alive-and-happy could be categorised as such. That's why now I think I wouldn't enjoy Cassandra Clare's endings as much, because she wraps everything up to please people, but it's not really realistic that way.. That being said, sometimes I like an ending a lot, sometimes I don't, but I can't really do anything about it - and there's always fanfiction to read if it all goes to hell.
I'm the opposite. When I do finish series and trilogy books, the finale is usually my favorite book. Winner's Kiss was the best book for me in the Winner's trilogy. Ruin&Rising was my fave book in the Grisha trilogy.
Thoughts on Tomes Maybe it's coz I don't get the books as soon as they're out and have to wait for the next? I usually end up reading book 2 and 3 in the same period lol. Maybe this is why people are coming out with duologies nowadays instead of trilogies.
I think my struggle with finales is the obvious one, I just don't want it to end. Kinda like a video game, you get pulled into that world and you fall in love with those characters....you don't wanna leave. I read for an escape and when the series ends....I'm lost for a little bit. Where'd my friends go?? hehe As far as what you are talking about, I'm most disappointed if a series...ties everything up in a neat little bow. I've read great finales, but they kinda rushed the end. I think the pacing could have been done differently to explain more and wrap up nicely. Does that make sense? Also, if questions are not answered...I'm furious! LIVID! Give me closure. Now, though I understand your point about people dying...cuz in real life...we don't all make it though the big nasty war....I'm heartbroken if someone dies and I don't wanna read anymore. Essentially, I'm a big baby lol I gave up on Game of Thrones because I heard no one is safe...and they aren't. Great chat!!! :)
Great discussion, Sam! What I can't stand is when a finale feels completely separate to where a series started. I mean of course it's cool if the story expands but if you start with A and B and you're expecting C and then somehow end up at Z you've lost me. I kind of feel like the Divergent series spiralled out completely from where it started and also the Bloodlines series by Richelle Mead kind of felt like that too, like she forgot where she started and the ending then was just kind of cheesy and fanservice-y and not in keeping with the earlier books. I think sometimes finales can be disappointing in terms of ships. I know the relationship aspect is not always the most important thing but you kind of want the main character to end up with who you want them to and with a second book there is still a mystery of who they're going to "decide on" if it's a love triangle. I kind of feel that way about Requiem by Lauren Oliver, I didn't like who Lena ended up with. Requiem's also a good case of "no ending at all!" which I HATE. I hate open finales, I know you can theorise yourself but it's the author's work and for me, they're the only ones who can decide how it ends. If it's left open I'm disappointed, especially if it's a series where I've waited each year as the sequels come out (which I did for the Delirium trilogy). All that waiting for a lacklustre ending is kind of disappointing. The End by Lemony Snicket was also no ending at all. I guess my favourite sort of endings are the bittersweet ones, where everything's not neatly wrapped up in a bow and perfectly happy (Breaking Dawn cough cough) but it's not this totally depressing thing where the ending is so depressing it actually ruined the previous books (Allegiant). It gives you feels but it doesn't ruin your life. Some of my favourite finales are Deathly Hallows, Clockwork Princess, Undivided by Neal Shusterman and Ignite Me. Sorry for this very long comment!
+MusicBooksTV I love long comments :) I completely agree. Bittersweet endings are my favorite because they are the most like real life. And they make sense for the epic stories we are reading. Also, having an ending that is reflective of what the first books promised is the goal as well. I hate when a series starts out one way and ends completely different.
I am not good with series... especially because finales let me down most of the time. And I have this weird urge to want to know more. I want to know how my beloved characters are in the future. and something completly different I am in love with your lipstick.
kill your darlings, is what you're saying. I don't really read or finish series and I'm just now getting into reading fantasy. I think the only series I read all the way through was a series of unfortunate events and that was pretty awesome for teenaged me. still very concerned about those kids
I have the same problem with finales. I always feel let down, be it with a final episode of a tv show or the final book in a series but I do think that's most likely due to having too high an expectation. Although you mentioned it as a good finale, I had severe problems with the Deathly Hallows ( I agree with your point about the deaths though, they were needed to make it seem more believable). In my head I had huge expectations of where it was going to lead, and just found it really boring and meandering for the most part. I had the same feeling with Mockingjay and The Return Of The King. However the finale I had no problems with was A Clockwork Princess, as I felt it built on the previous two books, while having an epic battle and closed of enough of the characters arcs that I was really happy with the ending. I think this dislike of finales is why I tend to start multiple series at once (especially if I like the first book in a series) because I'm worried that I'll be disappointed overall when they finish.
I feel you on the Mockingjay. But I've only Seen Return of the King as movie and that was fantastic. (I do plan on reading The Lord of the Rings) But I felt the same of CP2 as I do of most other finales it was a great book it really was and yet I still felt that finale disappointment that is so weird to place. Same CoHF although I LOVED CoG back when it was the finally so go figure.
This past year I read a lot of disappointing finales. I felt like nothing much was happening throughout the story and the ending was very abrupt and not satisfying. The finales I felt this way about are The raven king by Maggie Stiefvater, The last star by Rick Yancey and Midnight Star by Marie Lu. I think Cassandra Clare is an author who writes the best finales. They're emotional, satisfying and properly wrapped up.
I really hated epilogue in Harry Potter. As a kid seeing all my beloved characters aged 20 years in one second was so traumatazing. From people who I could relate to so deeply, they became complete strangers with their own famalies and kids. And it left me so disappointed:(
I feel a lot about the same thing, but my biggest problem is with 2nd books in the series being disappointing, and then the finale being better. Of course there are exceptions where the finale is even worse and more disappointing haha but usually thats how it happens for me
+Thoughts on Tomes Get to them ASAP lol.Can wait to heard your thoughs about them.Great video by the way,i am not big fan of the last book either,it is so hard to let them go isn't? x
That is different from what she saying here I think. Because it is a common and well known sorta-dispointment Its a good book but it just doesn't live up to a Riordan especially a finale. It felt so rushed!!! Especially the war.... The Last Olympian did it so well and BOO did not...
Thoughts on Tomes The thing is its quite a good book, but as a finale it seriously lacks. I don't know if its because it was rushed or honestly because we aren't done with the world. There is going to be a third series. So we aren't done with the characters. Also Magnus Chase We see one beloved character and I'm pretty sure we'll see more. So I'm guessing that's why. But the the books are so incredibly worth it even with that.
I guess with me, I unconsciously don't think how a book might end, so I don't really set expections cause I honestly don't think how a series or book might end. It's kinda weird, but that might be for some books why I'm not let down by my expections because I don't really have any.
sorry I'm replying to my own comment lol... anyways. the only finales I liked were Ignite Me, Isla and the Happily Ever After, and The One (if that is considered the last book)
Oh wow. I never knew I WANTED characters to be killed off in finales, but now, hearing you say all this... I guess... I... do? Here's the thing. In any series where relevant characters die, my FAVOURITE characters die. For SOME reason, the characters who get killed off are ALWAYS my favourites. BUT I don't mind when that happens in series finales. Or I do mind of course, I cry my eyes out, but crying over books is kinda fun and it often gives the character this extra depth? (Because they sacrificed themselves, or you find out stuff about them that you wouldn't have if they survived). Plus, the series is done, so you don't have to go on in a world without that character. It's SO MUCH WORSE when the character gets killed off halfway through the series (which also happens to me a lot. *COUGH* Mistborn *COUGH*. And then it's SO much more painful because you have to live on in that world without your babies. And it's ESPECIALLY frustrating when everyone just kind of moves on and forgets about it (honestly, one of the issues I do have with characters dying is that I often find portrayals of grief in YA unconvincing.) ANYWAY. This comment ended up being more about characters dying than about finales but basically I AGREE.
The favorite character dying only happened to me once! At least in a stayed dead sorta way I've had other but they came back and I saw it coming. I didn't cry but was and still an highly annoyed!!! I guess its because I tend to love Main Characters the most. Figures, the one time I like a side character best they get offed.... wait, I just remembered they kill of my favorite character in Naruto... but I haven't watched that yet I just got spoiled....
Amelle Kyre Really the moral of the story here is: NEVER fall in love with a side character. xD I do that all the time and they always get killed off. Especially the mentor/parent-substitute type character, which usually happens to be my favourite. They always get killed in order for the main character to 'grow up.'
nokiddingbrainless Lol, like I said I'm mostly safe. I tend to like main characters the most. Like HP (which I assume sucked for you with the mentor thing) My favorite is Ron.
Hahaha your life must be so easy. xD My favourite in HP is Lupin and I will never not be sad about it. (Sirius and Dumbledore were devastating too). But my other favourite is Molly, so at least ONE of them survived! =D
nokiddingbrainless Holy frig! That really is very sucky!!!! Only one man..... Hey have you read Percy Jackson? I think you could maybe be good on that one.
I have learned that if the series isn't finished I really should not start to read it. I have a tendency to read the books that are published and then never finish the series if the final books are not published within a few months. For example Diana Galbadons Outlander series. I have read up to The Firery Cross but at the time Breath Of Snow and Ashes had another 2 years till it came out. If/ when she ever finishes the series I plan to reread the whole thing. Character death is important. I hate when it happens but if no one dies the story feels almost anticlimactic.
Well for me it's a bit different. Great if characters are all ok, but it's just that if the previous events were terrible and traumatic (and that's usually the case) I hate it when it's suddenly Happy ending and that is it. I'm like wow wait but were is a long slow period of working that trauma out. I'm a sucker for a long boring for many people Return of the king type of endings xD
Consistent problems with bad finales I've seen: -Suddenly random or inconsistent themes being introduced. -Not enough characters dying in warring scenarios, or characters dying for stupid reasons/their death isn't given their proper dues. (Harry Potter, Buffy TVS, Samurai Jack, lots of graphic novels have this issue too.) -Deus Ex Machinas -Obvious fan pandering that does more harm than good. -Breaking established continuity with no sufficient build-up or explanations. -Villains ending up being a huge let-down. -Copious amounts of laziness and unanswered questions pivotal to the plot, character fates, etc. -Poor time management. There's probably more but those jump out at me first. I go into finales with caution because I've seen a lot more lackluster ones than good ones.
See, it was a great finale and I still felt disappointed like it was great but I never thought it was the Best like Sam says. I felt the same about CoHF.
Books Before Dudes You feel sorry for me?? That is not respecting an opinion. Especially on a video that is about this exact thing. I have finales that I that I like just this one left with the same feelings most of the others do. The Last Olympian for Percy Jackson was seriously great. As well as my favorite finale which is the Crimson Crown from the Seven Realms series. CP2 Just gave me the typical finale feel. I love the book but something about it... Its exactly what Sam was talking about which I why I even commented.
I feel the same way about how finales are just too perfect. Give me blood. Give me death. That's why I'm upset with both finales in Cassandra Clare's series. Huge battle sort of thing and it all just wraps up perfectly with like practically no loss? No thanks. For a finale to be realistic, SOMEONE HAS TO DIE.
Amelle Kyre We get a "he died, oh no just kidding, everything's perfect and everyone ends up happily ever after!" City Of Glass had the perfect bittersweet ending (considering it was originally supposed to end there), but Clockwork Princess and Heavenly Fire had too much of a perfect ending for me.
Tara Taillon What? Nope people die... They actually die. And no one died in CoG at all it wasent even Bittersweet. CP2 was much more Bittersweet. In fact CoG had the "he died, oh no he's okay everyone ends up happily ever after much more than CP2.....
Tara Taillon Look who's getting defensive. You can have whatever fucking opinion you want. As a matter of fact I share your opinion I loved CoG when it was the finale and think the other two endings are okay. But whether people die or not isn't an opinion.
+The Astonishing Ashley I do sometimes. It depends on the look I'm going for that day. It doesn't weird people out because no one can tell they are wigs. I get a lot of compliments on my hair when I go out with them actually :)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the finale of Harry Potter is so unrealistic. Harry beating the greatest wizard in the world with the power of ... Love? What the hell.
I feel almost the same way about characters dying in finales. If everyone survives I always feel like there is something missing, like the author wasn't "brave" enough to do that to the fans. I am especially annoyed, when there is a character who died and suddenly he's alive again, even though I'm happy at the same time ;P
On the other hand I also don't like characters dying if I get the feeling they were just killed of to shock the reader.
The Autor who always perfectly walks the line for me is Brandon Sanderson, there may be some characters who die but it always makes sense :)
+VoyageThroughWor(l)ds Ugh yes. Resurrection plots are the worst.
I agree about the shock value thing. I want the deaths to make sense.
//waves frantically to multiple series with resurrection that i can't point out bc spoilers//
i second this so much
dude yes, I honestly find crying to finales extremely cathartic and I love wrapups that really go for the feelings. I totally agree with the idea of loss in books. When theres a huge battle but no loss, I feel like it's a cop out on the authors part because they're afraid of upsetting fans- which is understandable but still!
I completely agree with you about head cannons being better. I am horrible at finishing series in general lol, but when I do, I'm always left disappointed. I have yet to give a finale anything over 3 stars.
+Read Sleep Eat Repeat oh boo! I hate that feeling!
I relate completely. I need a series that the beginning starts with a bang and ends with a bang, that just gives me all the feels!
Sad finalies are the best for me and never FORGOTTEN , that's what makes a good book , we should be realistic really
I totally agree with you! Why would you be scared for these characters to die if you know they survive everything all the time? I loved THG so much because of that bittersweet ending. And that is also why I enjoy GoT so much. It's realistic and it keeps things excited. You are never sure who is going to survive. Love that!
It's a rare series that triumphs over a conclusion. Luckily those arw the most memorable. Reading is an exercise in finding those rare stories that embed themselves in your soul.
This wig/lipstick combo is very Evil Queen, which (aside from being amazing!) had me laughing so much when you were saying that you don't want bad things to happen to the characters, but.....you do.
I definitely have issues with finales, probably for similar reasons to what you talk about. Since I usually read fantasy/sci-fi stuff, bad stuff is going down in these books, and when somehow every single person comes out of it on the other side, it doesn't seem genuine. I will say, there have been series where everyone lives and it seemed realistic, but those are rare, in my opinion. The Old Kingdoms trilogy, which I read in its entirety last year, had one of my favourite endings, and I won't pretend that the fact that I sobbed for like an hour afterwards didn't have anything to do with that. *sigh*
+thebookwitchscauldron THANK YOU :)
Exactly! Especially if there is a large cast of characters, if everyone ends up surviving, I just don't believe it.
honestly you explained my feelings about finales so accurately. whenever I complain about the non-existent deaths in final movies or books my friends think I'm evil or that I enjoy watching my faves die. like no, I don't want them to die I just think they need to for a book to be realistic and emotional lol
Totally agree with Winter.
I agree with absolutely everything you said. I struggle with finales when they feel unrealistic or don't hit me emotionally too. I also felt disappointed by The Winner's Kiss even thought everyone else seems to love it, so it's nice to see that someone agrees.
I feel the same way about finales and character dying. I never want character to die but at the same time they are often in dangerous situations and it would be expected to lose someone. So I totally agree with that! Also I love to be a pile of emotions. It just makes it better to me.
I totally agree with you. It makes sense for people to be lost in these 'epic' conclusions. If everyone survives I just feel like it's a cop out and not 'realistic'. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Totally agree with everything you said. For me in regards to the Winner's Trilogy my favorite is definitely the Winner's Crime as well. I really enjoyed the finale and appreciated how it ended but since the second was so strong it left me expecting a little bit more from the third. Still overall, such a well-done trilogy! I feel like I started to notice my lack of satisfaction with finales when it came to the Hunger Games trilogy. My favorite in the trilogy is definitely Catching Fire and for me I felt Mockingjay just lacked I didn't hate the book because of the deaths just felt it fell short compared to Catching Fire. Loved this discussion video xx
The beginning of MJ was just strange and super slow... like the whole first half when the other two there was so much more going on at that point. Which I think really brought it down
Catching Fire is also my favorite.
I can have issues with that as well. A couple series that had amazing finales is the Gemma Doyle trilogy and Mistborn :) those give you the punch you want. I just also think too some series don't need to be trilogies...you can tell a vast, awesome story without stretching it thin into three books. I think that's one small problem with YA sometimes. Great video idea :)
I totally agree that books with huge wars and battles need a loss of a major character. I need that emotional reaction to connect to a series of books. With Winter, I was expecting a main character to die, but I was kind of relieved when it didn't happen. It's a weird feeling being pulled in two opposing directions. But in the case of Winter, I realized that Marissa Meyer made the choice possibly because the Lunar Chronicles is a fairy tale retelling and while she strayed from the classic fairy tales, the made the choice to keep the happily ever after intact.
I totally agree with you about character deaths. Like, I want them to be okay, but at the same time I don't because it's not really realistic if they are and I honestly love being a puddle of feels as well.😁
Watching this video hurts me more that you haven't finished the Mistborn series yet! I'm dying to hear your thoughts because I feel that that would be a "satisfying" finale bc I agree with everything you just said.
+booksbane I've heard that it has a good finale! I'm hoping to read the second book next month :)
I kind of want everything not to be fine, too. When everyone lives I kind of feel like 'that's it? It's just over?'
If you need a lot of feels, you're going to love Clockwork Princess when you get to it
For the most part I'm usually happy with how series' and finales wrap up. There's normally the death of the evil character in fantasy series/trilogies. I don't read much YA contemporary because I get bored in them but with adult contemporaries there's normally a cute/hot male character to swoon over so that gets me through. Same with most of the fantasies that I like to read tbh.
My response to a finale depends on how emotionally attached I have been to the characters, sometimes I enjoy a book for the plot/world building and I have not invested in the characters to care. When I have been emotionally invested with characters and their struggles, I too enjoy a realistic ending and rarely accept happily ever after endings (unless it is expected from the style of book) - if the ending makes sense in the context of the world/story/plot/character arc then I accept it.
I agree about Mocking Jay. It's actually my favorite book in the series. I thought it was very realistic.
Not to be argumentative, but I personally found winter to be very satisfying. It ended beautifully with that scence with Kai and cinder. It was a great way to wrap up the series, in my opinion. I also loved cress and Thorne in that book. I think everyone will agree that they are so adorable!
It's not argumentative to have a different opinion. It only is if you say mine is wrong :)
+Thoughts on tomes The lunar chronicles are probably in my top five favorites list of all time. But I had a friend who read it and she didn't really like it because she found the robots and all the sci-fi stuff to be really weird. I was surprised, because we have very similar reading tastes. She liked the fault in our stars, (which I know you don't like, which breaks my heart! But, I still like your videos), the hunger games, and the selection, which I enjoyed. But, I get really defensive about the lunar chronicles when anyone insults it, lol...
I'm kind of in the same boat in that when second books are done well they are almost always my favourites. I think I'm usually pretty satisfied with finales but I totally get what you're saying - I've definitely felt it before. I had always put it down to just wanting to stay with the characters more. But what you said about expecting more character death is also so true. Sometimes it just feels too neat and happy considering how high the stakes were and it makes it unbelievable and takes me out of the story a little bit. I actually really appreciate it when an important character is killed off and like you said that's why Mockingjay is believable (I'm of the pretty unpopular opinion of loving mockingjay more than the first book what w/e).
I agree with you that if you have a long time to think about books, then they have the potential to disappoint you more. I sometimes pick up on what I think are hints within the previous book, and get excited about that direction, and then feel let down when I realise that the series wasn't going that way at all.
+Much Ado About Novels YES! Same!
That was interesting :D. Well, from the things you said i got the feeling that you are mainly dissapointed for two reasons. The first one is because you have so big expectations for the ending combibing with the second one, which is wanting the finalle to be the peak of the storyline. Friendly tip, sometimes it is about the story and not the ending. Sometimes the ending is about what has already happened. We are complete opposites on this subject. I kind of like soft endings. Stress - free and kind endings, i love them. I have made up my mind everytime to just accept what may come in a book. This is what the person who has written this story has to offer me, this is what feels right, what feels good to them, i am willing to accept it and be thankful for it. I will not agree most of the time, but i will just sit for a while, try to understand. It's their brain, it's their idea, it's their work, it's their story. They just let us in, share it with us. They write bcz they need to, they write to put their souls on paper. Most of the time they cannot kill their characters and it just makes sense. We, as viewers, love the characters so much. Just think about how much the author loves them. If you created a character out of nothing, if it was yours from beggining to end, even when there would be many people reading the book, they would still be yours from begging to end. Would you just kill them for no reason? I am really sorry for the huge comment, i didn't intend it to be this big.
Deathly Hallows is the best finale to have ever happened. Ever.
The only finale that I was completely, utterly satisfied with was the Bartimaeus Trilogy. IT'S EPIC, IT'S HEARTWRENCHING!
So far the only finales I've loved as been The Hero of Ages by Brandon Sanderson and The Magician's Land by Lev Grossman.
Oh cool, I'm about to start the Mistborn series! (finally finally FINALLY) And I absolutely loathe the first book of The Magicians trilogy, but I've heard the finale is great, so I'm thinking about giving the series another shot. Thanks for letting me know!
I usually don't mind when characters die in finales UNLESS they are my favourite character and then I FLIP OUT
That's really interesting. I want finales that fit the build up for the book. SO like, with Winter, I was satisfied because it's a fairy tale retelling and it takes sense for things to be tied up as nicely as they were. But I would have liked more of a punch from Ruin and Rising, because of all the violence and threats built in to the plot over the previous books. I also generally marathon book series - I HATE waiting for books to come out. So, I think that it helps me to be more okay with the author's intention because I don't generally have time to build a head cannon. :)
Honestly my problem with Winter was how little romance there was in it, I mean I know that is not the main point of the story. But I was a little upset by the lack of it, then there was something involving Levana made me upset. Because it wasn't as climatic as I thought it would be, and I kind of wanted it to go differently as well.
+gracefulbooks same. i kind of wished there was more of a "wrap up" for Winter and Jacin. I know there relationship has been "on hold" for a decade, so it seems right that nothing more would have happened, but i still selfishly wanted more to have happened. And Levana was vanquished far too easily. After all that for her to finally break down and be defeatable? I don't know, i just didn't believe it
You know for a series which a whole lot of romance.... not one couple slept together which I think is a pity... it probably would have helped the finale.
I was pretty underwhelmed with the wh
+gracefulbooks Winter was a struggle for me because she packed so many characters in it that none really got enough time. I think that's why the romance was so lacking. For a long book, she ran out of time.
I don't think anyone suffered as much as Cinder to be honest but either way. I had the most problem with the way the revolution was handled as a whole more than even the lavana thing. The blacking out and then not seeing it from another perspective I think was the worst tho.... That's what felt most abrupt. We didn't see aftermath.
Amelle Kyre I felt like Wolf suffered through way more than Cinder did, like Cinder basically had no recollection of her past life. Even after she got told what happened to her or she realized what happened. Wolf suffered through so much, he is permanently scarred in a horrible way-I know Cinder is a cyborg but thats better than being altered into a man beast and ripped away from he women you love only to be transformed more and turned into a puppet for evil. Like i admit Cinder went through some series crap but Wolf I feel went through so much more than her.
I think for book endings I usually feel satisfied. I don't think that I feel like it was a let down or that it didn't live up to my expectations - I think it usually exceeds them. But I understand where you're coming from and I think that it's interesting to see your perspective.
I agree so much about the losses! It makes it less realistic for me as well. Most recent example for me was Library of Souls. I haven't been in love with the trilogy anyway but in this one there was constantly something horrible happening and the villain finally took over and then someone came and saved the day and so on and so forth and in the end everyone (except the villain of course) came out fine. It's so weird and really doesn't make sense.
And until this day I feel like the death at the end of Mockingjay was.. necessary. It's what makes this trilogy so.. tragic? And it really feels like a full circle.
I think if you are looking for something to really put at the heartstrings and leave you in a pile of feels Mistborn will be your series. I love the ending and yet scream in sadness
I also like the second book in a series so much more than any books! I usually do love the finale of a series a lot but they're a couple finales that aren't my favourites in the series. For example Mockingjay and Allegiant! I liked both of these finales but I preferred the other books more.
+Irish Reader I don''t know what it is about second books!
I completely agree when you talk about having time to theorize. It's almost like if I am given the time to come up with how I think the story should go (and how I hope and wish the author will take it!), I get attached to that idea even though that is not my choice to make.
As for character deaths and losses, I'm interested in seeing them even before the finale. In these stories about wars and conflicts, I don't think that the deaths need to be tied up in the end to kind of solidify a point. From start to finish, those losses will occur in the "realistic" setting, and I want to see them from start to finish!
I know what you mean, I usually love first books the most though. I think that often authors build up such a bad situation for their characters that the ending feels unrealistic because they try to wrap up three books worth of problems in like 100 pages at the end. I'm the same as you though I think I get most disappointed when I have to wait for a book because I build up too much expectation for the finale, if I marathon a series I usually just go with it because I'm caught up in the story. I love your discussion videos by the way your topics are always things I'm thinking about but don't have anyone to vent to :)
I have separation anxiety, even with books. So I just cry and cry when I finish series (TV, books, and movies), for example: Harry Potter, Friends, The Infernal Devices, The Hunger Games etc.) I cried for DAYS after I finished the Harry Potter series and also Friends. Of course I can just re-read/watch the series but it's not gonna be the same, you know?
+Cornelia Sundberg Absolutely. There is nothing like watching or reading something for the first time.
I really liked CoHF because it was kind of a happy ending but not completely and it also made me feel sad for the villan... It was really good
YES! Finales need death! Lol, sounds awful, but unless the series takes place in a contemporary setting, death is a needed part in fantasy/sc-fi. It just wouldn't make sense for everyone important to the story to make it out 100% fine after all the stuff they go through. Even if no one dies, I find it super unrealistic when the characters don't sustain major injuries (someone losing a limb, or maybe their vision etc). For a finale in fantasy/sci-fi there needs to be some sort of major loss for me to care about it.
I really love the ending to Mockingjay because there are some hard-hitting deaths, and the characters left alive are also deeply changed after the events from the book. It had its flaws, but I think the author really took the risks needed with those deaths to make a meaningful conclusion.
So many finales have disappointed me and it is often because authors forget/drop major storylines which leaves me feeling underwhelmed because you've built x up but x didn't matter in the end? *sighs* Also the lack of loss is jarring, I like to get hit in the feels *shrugs*. I agree with many of your points. I still am a 100 pages into winter and have no desire to finish which is disappointing :(
I can relate to this so much! For me it's usually the epilogue that disappoints me. I just can't bare the idea of everything being ok in the end, after all that has happened. It feels so unrealistic...
+Hiccup Exactly! Life isn't that pretty.
You've expressed a lot of the same thoughts I have about second books and finales. Second books (or mid series sequels) are past that initial immersion into a new world, and usually work to build the stakes leading up to the final outcome. We know these characters and are invested at this point, yet there is still so much potential for how things play out. When done well, 2nd books are a great blend of familiarity and excitement.
With finales, I'm always wanting character deaths if the series is about a war or revolution. Winter was completely unrealistic for me because it lacked the true stakes of war, which is what it was really about. Although, it's a fairy tale retelling so I guess it had to follow a formula, but I still feel ya on it just not taking it all the way there.
The Winner's Kiss was my least favorite in the series too. It was a very thorough ending, taking time to wrap things up, but I didn't feel like it took many risks.
I found the ending to Winter disappointing because I developed a theory on how it was going to end based on one throwaway line part way through the book. And then it didn't end my way and I was grumpy... I also tend to love the middle book of a trilogy the most when it's done well, and - like you - Crown of Embers is a perfect example of that.
Ruin and Rising was such a finale for me, where everything was just way too fine in the end. The epic battle just didn't happen. :D
I agree 100%. I felt the same way for all of the series endings as you. And for Shatter Me, I stopped at the beginning of book 2. Guess I need to continue reading that! Met Marie Rutoski today. eek!!!!!!! #fangirl
I love or like finales usually.I think there is more original ways to invoke emotion then killing off characters or breaking beloved couples up.I have no problem with there being injuries to major characters in a battle just not deaths.
I couldn't have said any of that better. I have a hard time even starting a second book because I have such anxiety about the finale
I had a similar thought about the lack of losses in Winter. I got about halfway through it and it dawned on me that one of the cast would die, and I was heartbroken and cried...and then I finished the book and everyone was still alive... Finales need to pack an emotional punch and I agree that Winter didn't deliver on that part!
See I could tell immediately no one was going to die it felt so obvious to me, but I thought the whole revolution thing just wasent very well done and I wanted to skip all of it and get to the "Happy Endings" cause I knew they were there.
I agree with you about the whole revolution. I really enjoyed reading Winter, but looking back at it, I can see that there were definitely a few faults.
I agree about the finales. The best series finale for me was The Deathly Hallows, and I think this was due to years of planning by J.K. Rowling. It's definitely realistic for prominent characters to die in a finale. I was sad about the deaths in Mockingjay but, it's The Hunger Games so it was expected. I think the thing with finales is some authors tend to stretch the story on for longer than they should go.
I feel the same way !! That's why when people say they hate allegiant (spoiler alert) I cringe ! Veronica took that leap !!!!
I always have such high expectations for finales, it's been a really long time since I was truly satisfied by one.
+Arianna Mae A lot of my favorite series are ending this year which leaves me nervous for the coming finales...
+Thoughts on Tomes Eep I bet. Fingers crossed!
My struggle is feeling like these finales wrap up too neatly. Like the books before the finale in the series all had big climaxes that left me with a racing heart, and then the last book's finale is just like....well, everything's gonna work out because everything is going to neatly fall into place and the bad guy will be vanquished in a way that doesn't seem believable. This is not all series, but a lot of which I've read. And I just usually expect the big finale to constantly have me gasping and grabbing my chest. So if it doesn't, I'm kind of just like.....okay well, that was a nice ending i guess. And i don't want to say a book's last finale was just "nice". I want to say that it had me screaming, or crying, or dancing, or something else that will make me look insane to any bystanders. So I'm very nervous about The Raven King coming out in a few days!!! The series so far has been so perfect to me. I've never read a Maggie Stiefvater series before so I honestly don't know what to expect from her as a series finale. So my fingers are quadruple crossed!!
Just wait for The Hero of Ages by Brandon Sanderson..... You'll see. IT'S ONE OF THE MOST EPIC CONCLUSION I'VE EVER READ. It's my favourite closure just after the Deathly Hollows...
have you read The Mistborn trilogy? that's one series where the finale definitely met my expectations, and perhaps even surpassed them. such a conclusive and great ending to a wonderful series.
I second this suggestion!!! Finish Mistborn!!!
+WellDoneBooks I need to finish the series. I've read the first book and adored it but haven't gotten around to the other two. I'm so happy it has a satisfying conclusion. That motivates me to get to them even sooner.
Barring Legend, Half Bad, Septimus Heap and The Chronicles of the Imaginarium Geographica, finales tend to be my favourite books in series. I agree with you on deaths, but there are times when characters are killed just for the sake of having a character death such as in (spoiler)
Crooked Kingdom, Angels Twice Descending and Half Lost. The deaths in those books were completely pointless. Mathias' death didn't even make sense for the story. He was literally the one character who had to survive to complete his arc, but no he died because he was the least popular of the six.
Usually finales are either hit or miss for me. I can't help having high expectations on it as much as I want to avoid it. Character deaths on finale = it depends. Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes... "it's wtf why?" The finale I'm really satisfied with is Into the Still Blue by Veronica Rossi.
I'm so torn between "it's a war or a battle, they can't all survive" and "Don't you dare let x die!" ;) - I can't decide so that's my struggle with finales because I feel I can't be pleased either way; but I totally get your point and I tend to not like it that much if anything comes together too nicely and everyone is a ball of joy at the end. And in general I don't do that good with endings.
For me it really depends on what it is and the feel of the series. If its something like The Lunar Chronicles where its a big romance thing and fairy tales and stuff I am totally okay if no one ends up dead. But if I'm reading something that feels darker and as such there should be death but the ending is a fluff fest I will be disappointed. I feel like it really really depends on the series.
Or if they really really build up the suspense like the constantly allude to the fact (in subtle ways) that not everyone can make out alive and you worry and then everyone does... It can be annoying to worry for nothing or the answer to everyone living is to simple just... I'm thinking of one particular Riordan finale.
I've only been let down by two sequels. One of them being "Beautiful Redemption" and that one is because I really hated the direction the story took. The other one that slightly disappointed me is "Champion" by Marie Lu. I did really enjoy the book but I needed more closure at the end. Overall though I usually adore finales. Lot's of times they end up being my favorite book of the series. And I think that is because I try not to overthink about the stories and build them up in my mind. The only finale I am terrified of is when Sarah J. Maas wraps up the Throne of Glass series.
I FELT THE SAME WAY ABOUT THE WINNER'S KISS but it really depends on the finale for me. I can either love or feel let down by finales but usually there's no in between, except for The Winner's Kiss, where I was satisfied with it and it was a good book but it wasn't as good as the other books for me.
I feel the same!!! Loved Siege and Storm thought Ruin and Rising was just good not great. I liked The Winner's Crime more than Curse (haven't read Kiss yet)
and Winter... I gave it a three.... It felt rushed I mean the revolution happens in like two, three days.... and that was it.
I'm frequently disappointed by finales as well.
My Exception is The Seven Realms series. The Crimson Crown is my favorite finale ever and its one of my favorite series. I loved sooooo much which just doesn't happen with finales usually.
The only other one would The Last Olympian for the Percy Jackson series. It is awesome. Of course it did leave me with a hint that there was more to come from this world.
I'm the same way. I prefer my finales to be Harry Potter/Allegiant death scenes because when the baddie dies and the goodies ride off into the sunset without much devastation, (Ruin and Rising/Breaking Dawn) it's like really? The second book is normally my fave, even when I love the finales. Although a lot of the time, I don't even finish series.
I don't read a ton of series, but I am usually pretty ok with the finales that I have read. The very end of the Hunger games not withstanding, and I felt that some characters in that were killed off for shock value. As a writer I definitely feel that every character you kill should mean something. I honestly hate the "and then he died, and she died, and he died, because this is WAR, son!" mentality. I know. I know. That way is more realistic, but I can never just kill of characters offhandedly in battle. It has to make sense for the story and be for a reason.
Anyway, I digress. I personally like a lot of the drama and hardship to happen in a middle book. There should def. be some in the finale too, but middle books often slump, as you said, almost like they're afraid to do too much. Finales get shit done, but it could have been spread out into the middle book a bit more.
Well look at that, I digressed again. I should probably stop before I don't make any sense at all.
I do get excited about finales but I usually find them really disappointing. And for me its normally because the main character and their love interest end up living happily ever after and I think that that is a massive cop out. For example, I loved Ruin and Rising it was a great finale until Mal lived and went off with Alina to have a happily ever after. Sigh. I disliked Mockingjay for the same reason. Whereas I liked the ending to Allegiant because there was a finality to it. I really enjoyed this and it really got me thinking about finales haha! :)
I'm totally opposite I don't like deaths in finales I just feel like there can be other ways to evoke an array of emotions without killing off everyone. I mean sometimes it's understandable in dire circumstanes; but other times I'm completely destroyed by it.
It really depeds on what the series is, how fast I'm reading it, what mood I'm in, how much time I hat to theorise before reading it, etc. For the most part, finales are kind of meh for me, the only exceptions to the rule being Dreams of Gods & Monsters, Mockingjay and maybe Gallagher Girls and Ignite Me.
I haven't read that many series to begin with, but the ones I did read left me wanting more/less/a different thing all together. A prime example for this would be Ruin & Rising (still bitter about it) and the Harry Potter epilogue (please don't kill me).
Like you said, I want everything to fit the story and if it's a war, I don't think everyone-is-alive-and-happy could be categorised as such. That's why now I think I wouldn't enjoy Cassandra Clare's endings as much, because she wraps everything up to please people, but it's not really realistic that way..
That being said, sometimes I like an ending a lot, sometimes I don't, but I can't really do anything about it - and there's always fanfiction to read if it all goes to hell.
I'm the opposite. When I do finish series and trilogy books, the finale is usually my favorite book. Winner's Kiss was the best book for me in the Winner's trilogy. Ruin&Rising was my fave book in the Grisha trilogy.
You're so lucky! I don't want to be this way lol
Thoughts on Tomes Maybe it's coz I don't get the books as soon as they're out and have to wait for the next? I usually end up reading book 2 and 3 in the same period lol. Maybe this is why people are coming out with duologies nowadays instead of trilogies.
I think my struggle with finales is the obvious one, I just don't want it to end. Kinda like a video game, you get pulled into that world and you fall in love with those characters....you don't wanna leave. I read for an escape and when the series ends....I'm lost for a little bit. Where'd my friends go?? hehe As far as what you are talking about, I'm most disappointed if a series...ties everything up in a neat little bow. I've read great finales, but they kinda rushed the end. I think the pacing could have been done differently to explain more and wrap up nicely. Does that make sense? Also, if questions are not answered...I'm furious! LIVID! Give me closure. Now, though I understand your point about people dying...cuz in real life...we don't all make it though the big nasty war....I'm heartbroken if someone dies and I don't wanna read anymore. Essentially, I'm a big baby lol I gave up on Game of Thrones because I heard no one is safe...and they aren't. Great chat!!! :)
Great discussion, Sam! What I can't stand is when a finale feels completely separate to where a series started. I mean of course it's cool if the story expands but if you start with A and B and you're expecting C and then somehow end up at Z you've lost me. I kind of feel like the Divergent series spiralled out completely from where it started and also the Bloodlines series by Richelle Mead kind of felt like that too, like she forgot where she started and the ending then was just kind of cheesy and fanservice-y and not in keeping with the earlier books.
I think sometimes finales can be disappointing in terms of ships. I know the relationship aspect is not always the most important thing but you kind of want the main character to end up with who you want them to and with a second book there is still a mystery of who they're going to "decide on" if it's a love triangle. I kind of feel that way about Requiem by Lauren Oliver, I didn't like who Lena ended up with. Requiem's also a good case of "no ending at all!" which I HATE. I hate open finales, I know you can theorise yourself but it's the author's work and for me, they're the only ones who can decide how it ends. If it's left open I'm disappointed, especially if it's a series where I've waited each year as the sequels come out (which I did for the Delirium trilogy). All that waiting for a lacklustre ending is kind of disappointing. The End by Lemony Snicket was also no ending at all.
I guess my favourite sort of endings are the bittersweet ones, where everything's not neatly wrapped up in a bow and perfectly happy (Breaking Dawn cough cough) but it's not this totally depressing thing where the ending is so depressing it actually ruined the previous books (Allegiant). It gives you feels but it doesn't ruin your life. Some of my favourite finales are Deathly Hallows, Clockwork Princess, Undivided by Neal Shusterman and Ignite Me.
Sorry for this very long comment!
+MusicBooksTV I love long comments :) I completely agree. Bittersweet endings are my favorite because they are the most like real life. And they make sense for the epic stories we are reading. Also, having an ending that is reflective of what the first books promised is the goal as well. I hate when a series starts out one way and ends completely different.
I am not good with series... especially because finales let me down most of the time. And I have this weird urge to want to know more. I want to know how my beloved characters are in the future.
and something completly different I am in love with your lipstick.
kill your darlings, is what you're saying. I don't really read or finish series and I'm just now getting into reading fantasy. I think the only series I read all the way through was a series of unfortunate events and that was pretty awesome for teenaged me. still very concerned about those kids
I have the same problem with finales. I always feel let down, be it with a final episode of a tv show or the final book in a series but I do think that's most likely due to having too high an expectation. Although you mentioned it as a good finale, I had severe problems with the Deathly Hallows ( I agree with your point about the deaths though, they were needed to make it seem more believable). In my head I had huge expectations of where it was going to lead, and just found it really boring and meandering for the most part. I had the same feeling with Mockingjay and The Return Of The King. However the finale I had no problems with was A Clockwork Princess, as I felt it built on the previous two books, while having an epic battle and closed of enough of the characters arcs that I was really happy with the ending.
I think this dislike of finales is why I tend to start multiple series at once (especially if I like the first book in a series) because I'm worried that I'll be disappointed overall when they finish.
I feel you on the Mockingjay. But I've only Seen Return of the King as movie and that was fantastic. (I do plan on reading The Lord of the Rings)
But I felt the same of CP2 as I do of most other finales it was a great book it really was and yet I still felt that finale disappointment that is so weird to place. Same CoHF although I LOVED CoG back when it was the finally so go figure.
This past year I read a lot of disappointing finales. I felt like nothing much was happening throughout the story and the ending was very abrupt and not satisfying. The finales I felt this way about are The raven king by Maggie Stiefvater, The last star by Rick Yancey and Midnight Star by Marie Lu.
I think Cassandra Clare is an author who writes the best finales. They're emotional, satisfying and properly wrapped up.
I'm curious. What don't you like about The Raven King?
I feel the. Exact. Same. I just have such high expectations that it's impossible to meet them :/
My favorite endings are usually bittersweet.
I really hated epilogue in Harry Potter. As a kid seeing all my beloved characters aged 20 years in one second was so traumatazing. From people who I could relate to so deeply, they became complete strangers with their own famalies and kids. And it left me so disappointed:(
I feel a lot about the same thing, but my biggest problem is with 2nd books in the series being disappointing, and then the finale being better. Of course there are exceptions where the finale is even worse and more disappointing haha but usually thats how it happens for me
I think you would love the Mistborn trilogy,not sure if you have read it,but it has everything to need in a finale lol
+nuria molano I've read the first book and loved it! I need to get to the last two and a lot of people are saying it's a good finale :)
+Thoughts on Tomes Get to them ASAP lol.Can wait to heard your thoughs about them.Great video by the way,i am not big fan of the last book either,it is so hard to let them go isn't? x
No, not my precious Winter!!!!!!!!!!😭😭
:(
I can totally relate. *glares at Blood of Olympus*
That is different from what she saying here I think. Because it is a common and well known sorta-dispointment Its a good book but it just doesn't live up to a Riordan especially a finale.
It felt so rushed!!! Especially the war.... The Last Olympian did it so well and BOO did not...
+Harini Marchadi I haven't read that series but the hate for BOO makes me not want to.
Thoughts on Tomes its even worse because The Last Olympian was such a perfect finale
Thoughts on Tomes The thing is its quite a good book, but as a finale it seriously lacks. I don't know if its because it was rushed or honestly because we aren't done with the world. There is going to be a third series. So we aren't done with the characters. Also Magnus Chase We see one beloved character and I'm pretty sure we'll see more. So I'm guessing that's why.
But the the books are so incredibly worth it even with that.
I guess with me, I unconsciously don't think how a book might end, so I don't really set expections cause I honestly don't think how a series or book might end. It's kinda weird, but that might be for some books why I'm not let down by my expections because I don't really have any.
this is too true!
sorry I'm replying to my own comment lol... anyways. the only finales I liked were Ignite Me, Isla and the Happily Ever After, and The One (if that is considered the last book)
I'm that way with Tv shows
Oh wow. I never knew I WANTED characters to be killed off in finales, but now, hearing you say all this... I guess... I... do?
Here's the thing. In any series where relevant characters die, my FAVOURITE characters die. For SOME reason, the characters who get killed off are ALWAYS my favourites. BUT I don't mind when that happens in series finales. Or I do mind of course, I cry my eyes out, but crying over books is kinda fun and it often gives the character this extra depth? (Because they sacrificed themselves, or you find out stuff about them that you wouldn't have if they survived). Plus, the series is done, so you don't have to go on in a world without that character. It's SO MUCH WORSE when the character gets killed off halfway through the series (which also happens to me a lot. *COUGH* Mistborn *COUGH*. And then it's SO much more painful because you have to live on in that world without your babies. And it's ESPECIALLY frustrating when everyone just kind of moves on and forgets about it (honestly, one of the issues I do have with characters dying is that I often find portrayals of grief in YA unconvincing.) ANYWAY. This comment ended up being more about characters dying than about finales but basically I AGREE.
The favorite character dying only happened to me once! At least in a stayed dead sorta way I've had other but they came back and I saw it coming. I didn't cry but was and still an highly annoyed!!!
I guess its because I tend to love Main Characters the most. Figures, the one time I like a side character best they get offed....
wait, I just remembered they kill of my favorite character in Naruto... but I haven't watched that yet I just got spoiled....
Amelle Kyre Really the moral of the story here is: NEVER fall in love with a side character. xD I do that all the time and they always get killed off. Especially the mentor/parent-substitute type character, which usually happens to be my favourite. They always get killed in order for the main character to 'grow up.'
nokiddingbrainless Lol, like I said I'm mostly safe. I tend to like main characters the most. Like HP (which I assume sucked for you with the mentor thing) My favorite is Ron.
Hahaha your life must be so easy. xD My favourite in HP is Lupin and I will never not be sad about it. (Sirius and Dumbledore were devastating too). But my other favourite is Molly, so at least ONE of them survived! =D
nokiddingbrainless Holy frig! That really is very sucky!!!! Only one man.....
Hey have you read Percy Jackson? I think you could maybe be good on that one.
I have learned that if the series isn't finished I really should not start to read it. I have a tendency to read the books that are published and then never finish the series if the final books are not published within a few months. For example Diana Galbadons Outlander series. I have read up to The Firery Cross but at the time Breath Of Snow and Ashes had another 2 years till it came out. If/ when she ever finishes the series I plan to reread the whole thing.
Character death is important. I hate when it happens but if no one dies the story feels almost anticlimactic.
+Jessica Gomes Exactly. I don't want it to happen, but it feels unrealistic when it doesn't.
Well for me it's a bit different. Great if characters are all ok, but it's just that if the previous events were terrible and traumatic (and that's usually the case) I hate it when it's suddenly Happy ending and that is it. I'm like wow wait but were is a long slow period of working that trauma out. I'm a sucker for a long boring for many people Return of the king type of endings xD
Consistent problems with bad finales I've seen:
-Suddenly random or inconsistent themes being introduced.
-Not enough characters dying in warring scenarios, or characters dying for stupid reasons/their death isn't given their proper dues. (Harry Potter, Buffy TVS, Samurai Jack, lots of graphic novels have this issue too.)
-Deus Ex Machinas
-Obvious fan pandering that does more harm than good.
-Breaking established continuity with no sufficient build-up or explanations.
-Villains ending up being a huge let-down.
-Copious amounts of laziness and unanswered questions pivotal to the plot, character fates, etc.
-Poor time management.
There's probably more but those jump out at me first. I go into finales with caution because I've seen a lot more lackluster ones than good ones.
You look so hot here! Loving the look :DD
The Infernal Devices has one of the best finales I've read. Just...fyi
See, it was a great finale and I still felt disappointed like it was great but I never thought it was the Best like Sam says. I felt the same about CoHF.
Books Before Dudes You feel sorry for me?? That is not respecting an opinion.
Especially on a video that is about this exact thing.
I have finales that I that I like just this one left with the same feelings most of the others do. The Last Olympian for Percy Jackson was seriously great. As well as my favorite finale which is the Crimson Crown from the Seven Realms series.
CP2 Just gave me the typical finale feel. I love the book but something about it... Its exactly what Sam was talking about which I why I even commented.
I feel the same way about how finales are just too perfect. Give me blood. Give me death. That's why I'm upset with both finales in Cassandra Clare's series. Huge battle sort of thing and it all just wraps up perfectly with like practically no loss? No thanks. For a finale to be realistic, SOMEONE HAS TO DIE.
Um people die in Clockwork Princess...
Amelle Kyre We get a "he died, oh no just kidding, everything's perfect and everyone ends up happily ever after!" City Of Glass had the perfect bittersweet ending (considering it was originally supposed to end there), but Clockwork Princess and Heavenly Fire had too much of a perfect ending for me.
Tara Taillon What? Nope people die... They actually die. And no one died in CoG at all it wasent even Bittersweet. CP2 was much more Bittersweet. In fact CoG had the "he died, oh no he's okay everyone ends up happily ever after much more than CP2.....
Why are you getting so damn defensive? If I hate the ending, let me have that fucking opinion.
Tara Taillon Look who's getting defensive. You can have whatever fucking opinion you want.
As a matter of fact I share your opinion I loved CoG when it was the finale and think the other two endings are okay.
But whether people die or not isn't an opinion.
I only find them disappointing when i don't marathon the series.
Do you wear your wigs in public? And if you do, does it weird people out?
Also, GRRM isn't afraid of killing of characters. 😁😁😁
+The Astonishing Ashley I do sometimes. It depends on the look I'm going for that day. It doesn't weird people out because no one can tell they are wigs. I get a lot of compliments on my hair when I go out with them actually :)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the finale of Harry Potter is so unrealistic. Harry beating the greatest wizard in the world with the power of ... Love? What the hell.
*cough* Mara Dyer Trilogy *cough*