Have you heard of this kind of thing? Are you into meditation? Let me know below! Help my sponsor: Wipe your details from data collectors! The first 100 people to use code ANDREWGOLD at the link below will get 60% off of Incogni: incogni.com/andrewgold
I have tried meditation but I have never achieved it and I'm glad. I would be very hard on myself for not doing it properly and what a waste of energy! I have a friend who has supernatural ability who won't meditate, though she is Buddhist, because she fears losing control of her faculties and being taken over by "others" Andrew, have you heard of the Kenyan cult that starves its members to death???? So freaking sad and crazy!
yes i practice meditation, i also pray for guidance & protection to be aware & allow Gods will over mine. in my view, it's not meditation that is the danger, but the human ego, which can use anything toward a bad end or selfish purpose, the ego can game/hack any system, church, faith or political cause to taint or ruin anything it touches & tries to possess, the ego takes the principle of survival & surviving & can distort it to delusional proportion, viewing everything that is not *Pro Ego²* to be not only false& wrong but the enemy, & an adult with an unhinged/untempered & ego run amok can behave like a spoiled child turned loose with dangerous weaponry....
I spent 6 years in Japan studying martial arts and eastern medical traditions. Due to my occupation as a massage therapist I kept falling into western foreigner groups who were dogged pursuers of enlightenment. I was that person who always challenged their idea of active pursuit. I will admit I enjoyed pissing them off. Needless to say I was branded as a simpleton who didn't take "it" seriously enough. 30 years later I still meet insufferable groups of the righteous. IMO it's called personal growth because it's meant to be personal and not a group performance.
As an Asian American, I always thought this was funny. My parents converted to Christianity in Korea in part because of the corruption of the Buddhist hierarchies there. And then I see all these white people around me wanting to pursue Buddhism or Hinduism because it’s not corrupt like Christianity. Haha, grass is always greener. Me? I’ve left organized religion. Group dynamics are fascinating and terrifying.
What do u believe in now? I've experienced spiritual abuse in a pentecostal church I was in over 10 years. This was over 5 years ago and I tried to return a few times.bit it's actually gone worse!!
Don't put your faith in people or churches they will fail even the chosen will be deceived. Soo always put your focus and faith in Christ. Unfortunately is sad and horrible what they do in. Churches now day. Yet our main focus is Christ. We need to keep searching for the group where we do feel safe and heard , we need to have dicerment so we dont get fooled. ❤ blessings.
I unfortunately married someone once when I was very young who was an Osho follower but back when he was still called Bagwan Shree Rajneesh. I watched a quirky, meditator, who was a master of martial arts, go insane right in front of me. I even became his disciple for a while unfortunately because he started his own spin off Enlightenment cult. I grew up in a 70s doomsday cult before that, so I guess I was set up to find these troubled people. I wish I could say that was the end of my esoteric Journey but it wasn't. Eventually I found a faith that was real that didn't have any Insanity connected to it. There are people out there who have faith that are not insane, and actually help others, due to their faith, not in spite of it.
I find Osho really fascinating and incredibly charismatic. I even visited his Ashram in Pune a decade or so ago and had to take an AIDS test and buy two different colors of robes to gain admittance. I skipped the scheduled orgies, but did see lots of people speak in tongues. Fascinating. I should have written about it.
I have meditated daily for 40 years and used to teach yoga and meditation. I would never recommend a beginner go into long periods of meditation or a retreat because of possible negative consequences including insanity. Start with small periods of meditation regularly. There is no need for meditation for hours at a time anyway. Also have come across people who have become schizophrenic from various psychic and meditative practices. Finding a good teacher/s help with safe practices also.
Insanity can come by from external sources. Schizophrenia can not. You can't give yourself Schizophrenia. It may seem that way since people with the disorder are usually asymptomatic until their 20's.
and how are other areas of your life? are they truly congruent? I mean... since, even if not meditating insanely to the point of going into a psychotic break, yoga and meditation (particularly the former due to its roots that are much more contacted as you go deeper into yoga) anyway open doors to some things that are not precisely good for us spiritually speaking. So, a good thing to assess between traditions and practices is: what are the fruits of it? because by them you can know.
That's how it starts off at first. Small meditation at a time is still not ok to practice. It invites satanic entities. U should not be leading pple to their early grave. I don't think most pple r aware of the evil powers they open up their lives to.
For 25 years I was in the occult and new age. Did it all until The True and Living Creator God took hold of me and took me from under the power of darkness into His Glorious Light. He totally forgave me of every ungodly thing and thought I had ever had. And the more you Know Him (Jesus) the more Love, Joy and Peace are in your Life. True Born Again Christian's are not the ones who only sit in a church on a Sunday and are hypocrites the rest of the week. He lives in us and we live in Him. Repent and call on the Name of Jesus and He will answer by setting you free. ☝️🙌
My earliest( and most powerful) meditation was when I didn't know I was meditating. At the time, I was into free climbing. Rock climbing without gear. One mistake and you die, zero margin of error. REALLY focuses the mind.
Yes, climbing is like a meditation for me. Usually my mind is always flying with 50 thoughts at the time, and can't relax. But when I climb everything drops off... There's only the now. No thoughts, no worries, no emotions or desires, just each moment.
Funny thing is in heavily Christian areas in the US, it's been common for a long time to warn people against those forms of meditation because it's thought that trying to open yourself up to things like that leaves you open to spirits like demons and the like and that it can be dangerous, and people always call them crazy for it, but it seems like even if you don't believe in literal demons they have some wisdom in their words.
@@cathiemcginnis3997 yeah I'm not talking about Biblical meditation though, more the Eastern version of meditation having more to do with opening oneself up
@@baddragoniteI was taught this, especially when you are chanting in a language you don't understand. You don't know what you are asking to enter you.
indeed, they started to see this and started to warn people. At first, when I was full on spiritual stuff... I laughed about Christians saying this... many people in the new age ways today (including all the spiritual paths from the world that came up through it) think Christianity as almost naive or unknowing about the deeper complexities of other spiritual practices.... but... MY experience was... that after 20 years of observing people from both sides (Christians/Catholics vs. all others) I have been able to see how Christians have a constant, congruent and consistent growth over time both in their tangible/worldy and their spiritual lives. And I have seen how the things they warned about... were sensible and on point. I have seen many in the other spiritual practices went south eventually... even if being "masters" or whatnot about those paths. God IS good = the paths of the Lord are intentionally good for us, which means He doesn't take you to places where He'd expose you to danger but to places where you can grow fine, in peace, with the right amount of challenge and experiences, this is how you learn to FULLY trust Him, even more in the spiritual realms that... well, as this video shows, are not just whatever. Needless to say... that's why I'm a Christian-Catholic nowadays.
I teach Buddhist meditation (not Tibetan), but would never lead or teach a silent retreat without knowing the people involved, as those people who are on the edge of psychosis can be tipped over the edge. If she was really "enlightened" to the understanding, she would know that she is far from really understanding. It goes against the teachings of the Buddha. Very sad that this happened.
That disgusting . I know a few people who do meditation. They love in the different world. They expect you to bow wow them They can be over defensive if u say something wrong .
You are absolutely right. This is why I spent so many years trying to understand what happened. I'd also note that even the Buddha had trouble teaching his meditation practices to his followers. Perhaps you know the story of Migalandika and how the Buddha's first attempt at teaching impermanence ended up with an entire monastery committing suicide.
Right me too after being a serious Christian for 13 years. I still believe in the gospel but in a different light I don't take anything all the way. That's when I believe you have problems
Christian meditation is not looking inside of ourselves but upon the Word of God and asking the Lord what He is actually teaching us. No technique but a relationship with God.
My good mate got all caught up with Osho back in the 90s. I remember when he would come and visit me and he would keep trying to put these weird preachy tapes into my tape deck (yes kids, we had TAPE DECKS in our CARS back then!) all the time. He would be like "You HAVE to hear this guru, he speaks so much truth and wisdom!" ... as soon as he said that I would switch off mentally, lol. The tapes were SO BORING but he was proper into them. He took another good friend out to India later and they went to Pune together and, when they returned, they both had changed their flipping names. They were like "now you must know me as (insert weird hippy name here)" ... and we generally just took the mick out of them for it incessantly. They stuck to it though. Its funny because my mate was always a bit of a nutter but in the best kind of way but after he had been visiting Pune a few times he did start to become noticeably more unhinged. I would introduce him to a some friends, for example, and we would go for a drink and stuff and he would suddenly get this huge, slightly unsettling, smile and start screaming REALLY loudly. Not in a pained or distressed way, he would go on about how a scream was beautiful and a release of wondrous energy or something equally pretentious. Thing is, he would suddenly do it in a room full of people he had just met, often in mid-sentence and stuff! It got weirder too - they both became super sexual and touchy-feely, often to the point of awkwardness. The Osho bunch all really pushed the notion of free love, which is fine, but they then extended it outside their group, like they felt it was OK and 'natural' to just touch people unnecessarily and effectively snuggle up to other people's girlfriends and stuff. It was never to the point where it was creepy, but it was definitely inappropriate and awkward. Years later I stumbled across that documentary "Wild Wild Country" and all the screaming and stuff made so much sense. Thankfully going down my local pub was always more interesting to me than getting involved in any of that guru claptrap. I would much rather get sloshed with my mates and call them a bunch of pillocks than try to go around and "teach" them about how they can improve their lives by randomly screaming for no reason
@@matthewwalker5430 ❤lol! =D yeah, you were dreaming then. Perhaps something that your unconscious brought up for you to check out! hope you're having a good day! here it's midnight already.
This explains what happened with my ex 30 years ago! He had a realization that he should study comparative religion, especially the Tantric texts, and gets most of the way through a master's degree when we decamped to India for a year. While there, he had an awakening that he was destined to be a screenwriter and never finished his thesis. He was always chasing rainbows. He had been a Rosicrucian for a decade plus before I met him (theosophist offshoot). I thought he was mad at the time but these stories make him look pretty vanilla. This explains so much about him! 😵💫
@@notsocrates9529 "Living in your head rent free" and "onto something" is a "non sequitur," Some people, you have known, situations you live get reframed as you live and learn, as they are a caution, doesn't make them enlightened or the experiences positive, complex meanings can be fruitfully revisited, and reframed.
@@notsocrates9529 It's a put down, (used by pseudo ironically), in cults the term is "thought stopping" in in coercion it's known as a "shame attack" need l go on?
Really good - I went from being raised very conservative Catholic, to fundamental Evangelical (in my early 20s), to Alan Watts and Buddhist Temples, to yoga and then plant medicine retreats. You hit the nail on the head when you say it’s finding problems with the religious framework and then looking for another (a replacement). There is amazing feeling of insight in the beginning but then it either starts getting dogmatic or cult-y and then turns back into some kind of political thing and the spiritual benefits evaporate. I am definitely reading your book!
I began reading Buddhist literature when I was 14 and took refuge in Tibetan Buddhism when I was 19. I always say Buddhism is what moved me away from suicide. There was something I read that said taking your life takes you to a hell realm where you'll feel worse pain than what you're experiencing in life. It struck a cord with me and while I still grappled with depression for a long time, I no longer tried to take my life. For me, when I've done a silent retreats, I felt a deep sense of peace. Never considered doing anything terrible to myself or others.
Yeah I was always an atheist growing up but in adulthood I started opening up to the possibility of the afterlife or the divine and reading about people that have died and been resuscitated and now I lean towards believing in the supernatural and, while I think about offing myself sometimes, I keep myself from doing that by thinking about how hard it would be on my family and how I might end up in Hell. Basically all religions contain the concept of an unpleasant underworld or subsection of the underworld where the dead go to be punished, at least in some of their sects. Whether it's Naraka or Tartarus or Gehenna or the Corpse Shore of Scandinavian pagan mythology, this concept is universal, as is the concept of demons. One thing that perplexes me is how even peoples that lived nowhere near any active volcanoes somehow knew that deep underground is an incredibly hot place, a "lake of fire", AKA the Earth's mantle of magma. Pretty weird. This whole universe is weird. Hard to rule anything out, you know?
Look up Ajahn Brahm, Buddhist Society of SW Australia. He has secular lectures on forgiveness, love, dealing with illness, discontent, regrets etc. Studying under him led me to Christianity. Silent prayer is meditation
The Heart Sutra says no attainment no non attainment, I’m a meditator, Buddhist for 20 years. I am always working on not trying to get somewhere or get something. The danger is misunderstanding the teachings.
Fascinating discussion. My partner and I owned a holistic health center for 15 years and we often encountered those who dove headfirst into the practices we were teaching. It’s very important to maintain balance and understand that we’re looking at these teachings through a western lens.
Exactly. Meditation can be wonderful for people. It can also be a gateway into dangerous mental states. I like to think of it as powerful, not as innately good or bad. www.youtube.com/@sgcarney/videos
I used to be very into New Age teachings and Occult practices. Without getting into an autobiography, I remember when I realised that everything I believed in was false and feeling devastated at having spent so much time, energy and money following a heap of fantasies. It was hard. I've since become a Christian and I know for many that would be like jumping into the fire from the fry pan but for me it has given me clear boundaries on how to live my life, know right from wrong, treat people with love and kindness and have a stable, productive life. It's also given me healthy ways to help others. My mind isn't crowded with crazy beliefs. The more I grow in my faith the more I appreciate people have a hunger for spirituality but its important to find a form of spirituality that encourages your growth as a person rather than incite you towards mental confusion.
Meditation is not an occult practice. The most conservative and elite medical facilities in the world, such as the Mayo Clinic, advocate a meditation practice because hard evidence shows positive results. People who have unfortunate proclivities and mental illnesses will be off - it has nothing to do with meditating. People with abusive childhoods will often go from one extremist cult and practice to another searching for a stable family experience.
Great intereview. By way of a minor correction, Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) was already heavily influenced by the western version of eastern spirituality from long before the Oregon commune. Some of his early discourses in English are almost direct plagiarisms from the work of Alan Watts and various Theosophical Society authors.
Yep you got that right. Rashneesh/ Osho , Sadgu Guru, fake gurus, read a book and suddenly they are experts. Beware of self appointed gurus. Beware of real gurus As well. Why? Money corrupts every time.
I’ve been practicing transcendental meditation for 25 years. All it’s brought me is better health and a stronger sense of confidence and balance. My family saw the healthy progress in me and learned T.M 6 months after I was instructed, they still all practice and have never had any of the issues brought forth in this video. To me and my family it’s more like taking a walk somewhere beautiful or doing yoga. Just a nice easy way to destress and maintain a healthy mind and body. These stories were pretty scary and I feel horrible for the folks caught up in cults.
I won't go into any details, but I suffered terrible consequences of TM and did so for years. Apart from which, the supposedly meaning-free mantras you get at TM centres are in reality the names of lesser known Hindu deities. I don't like being lied to and manipulated.
I also have had nothing but positive experiences with TM. My teacher is careful to explain it’s dangerous to do more than 20 minutes at a time. (In a much more eloquent manner)
@@trumurray8033 so what? Don’t do it then and don’t gain the benefits. Of which there are many. Total bullshit too, if anyone wants it bad enough it’s attainable. “Not in their nature” is a massive cop out for “not wanting it very badly”
@@vaska1999 Why no details? Did you meditate longer than 20 minute stretches? I’m about to begin my practice again so perhaps your details would assist another….?
Meditation is great. Cults & group mentality is not. I stay away from groups with rules and cult like behavior which includes religion. Meditate for yourself 😊
It takes real mental fortitude to do silent retreats. I have been doing it for 17 years and I see so many people doing courses who does not understand what it requires. Some think if they do 1 course they are now enlightened, after course people struggle to adapt, stepping into normal life. I have seen people lose their minds. If you have depression, mental issues, do drugs, ayuaschka etc. Do not do these retreats.
I feel people with depression get unfairly lumped into that group. As someone with mild recurring depression, I benefit from regular meditation. As with anything, it is important to start small and see if (mindfulness etc) meditation is helpful and then not go to extremes. The recommended courses start with 8 to 10 minute sessions and then go up to 20 or 30 minutes at a time, no more. A weekend retreat would not tip most people over the edge.
Such a beautiful and necessary warning when our spiritual vanity becomes another deadly sin. Thank you Andrew for introducing us to Scott Carney. and his obvious wisdom.
Meditation does not cure insanity. For some people, it can be dangerous because it makes the condition worse. It can be hugely beneficial though, and placing all traditions in the same boat with the relative few quacks is unfair. Scott's rants can be beneficial, however, if his warnings serve to make people more careful of joining a group.
@@barbeeska I just meant generally. You can go off the rails with the most legitimate meditation teachers if you are too unbalanced to start with. When I did the Goenka 10 day, there was a questionnaire that included Questions about mental health history and drugs, etc. Cheers!
Just wanted to let you know that the "deminishing returns" where the body adjusts to everything (almost) has a technical term - homeostasis. It's the body's #2 priority (#1 is keeping you alive.) And I don't think you have an addiction to your sinus spray, it's a dependence. Which is treated differently. Usually when you find this happening you have to reduce the medication or go off of it for a while and can come back to it later. Usually just reducing it, or even switching to a different spray may work. Like if you use a saline spray, then an aloe spray may work, or just using a Neti pot for a while. I'm a big geek medically, it's my one weakness ;) Also I love the show, this episode was great and the guest was amazing! Thank you!
I completely understand. I am a History geek and am refraining from typing out an, "actually" paragraph when referring to the comments on the crusade. It was a lot less spiritual and a lot more practical.
You can be physically addicted to Afrin. Even the label says only use it for 3 days, max. It's a real physical addiction, and the detox process is horrible.
Some people do indeed become enlightened or self realised. And they go about their daily lives as normal. Scott only talked about the extreme cases therefore giving a very unbalanced view of meditation. Taking any religion to literally or to heart can cause a psychotic break which unfortunately happened to the young girl that jumped to her death.
Scott, you're a prolific speaker, full of energy while your topics are horrific, I felt you captivated my undivided attention. Sounds like people looking for a savior and someone there to fit that bill. 💜
This was a jaw dropping interview Andrew!! I ran to sub to Scott’s channel!! This was serendipitous for me!! I’ve been struggling with where I’m at spiritually, and why things are not working for me like they seem to be for others. I’ve been beating myself up, thinking I’m doing something wrong! What don’t I get?? Then I watched Aaron Dougherty last night, and I couldn’t have disagreed with him more!! It made me soo angry!! And I finally realized these “gurus” don’t know shite about shite!! They’re no more “enlightened” than I am!! Then today, my daughter mentions “spiritual bypassing!” And then I see your podcast!! Let’s just say I’m tripping at how much I needed to hear Scott’s story!! I’ve always been fascinated by cults, so I love your channel!! I think I’m very lucky I have super suspicious and grounded people in my life, otherwise I might have been caught up in such a thing!! Thanks for bringing this to light Andrew!! ✨💞✨🙏✨
Thanks for listening! And it's really awesome to hear that I might have helped a tiny bit before you ran into trouble! I'll do some more videos on this topic in particular down the line over at www.youtube.com/@sgcarney/videos
Guru Adi Da Samraj was a egoist, but had one good thing he said: there are two types of gurus, little g gurus and BIG G GURUS. BIG G GURUS are rare and include Ramana Maharshi (and obviously, Adi Da LOL), while little g gurus are students who have grown a huge ego. ........................ I think that's true. I would also say that 98% of gurus are little g gurus, or just teachers, or gurus in title only.
As I was turning away from my Christian root and journeying spiritual I drew the line on who I listened to by how much money they needed to teach me something. Gods love is free, all spiritual teachings should be the same, or very nominal. I was grateful that Christ gave me time to figure out the Truth. Jesus’ resurrection is the truth. That He did it far all of us because he loved us so much just said all I needed to hear. Am I perfect, heck no, but he is. That is all that matters.
So interesting. I took a weekend meditation class and can totally see how people go nuts. I was told that you have to be careful meditating when you are dealing with mental illness like depression etc. If you are “weak” meaning not able to protect yourself you can really fall down a hole while meditating
I wonder how you can screen for that issue. I've had problems with depression and anxiety and never had anything but positive effects. Maybe because my first introduction to meditation were simple guided meditations that stopped negative ruminations rather than encouraged them.
I have been meditating daily for only about 9 months now, but the positive benefits are astounding. I use this time to reinforce positivity, to heal from past trauma and re-program my subconscious mind. I have only had a couple of weird experiences, but mainly, uplifting, energizing and relaxing. Non of us know what’s going on in each others brains, but for me it’s a wonderful, trippy, experience that I can’t wait to do each day.
This is really good. As someone who has had "enlightening" experiences in meditation and and on plant medicine, I totally understand the powerful energy that's available in those experiences and how the messianic complex can kick in. We all want to be special, important, and seen... and we are. But the problem comes when we don't want to see others in that same light.
I personally believe the chakra's opening kundaline can be dangerous if power centre forced open . Makes sense, the reason people go mad. Cult leaders l say ego . Meditation has many positive aspects. Really enjoyed interview .
I was for many years part of the Osho tribe. In the beginning I had a lot of reservations since I had a very critical, doubtful mind. Now, so many years later I can say being part of that group really served it’s purpose. Now when one can see the outcome of all the inner work. Some the most beautiful people I know came out of this tribe. It was truelly a wonderful container for people with a burning desire to reach a truthful, loving life. If you took a snapshot of it 😮 it might look strange to an outsider looking in- but in reality these participants were people in the middle of a deep process.
Indeed.I loved being part of such a group. It deeply affected me but i had boundaies and some people werent that great in it...thats how the world is, the same people appear everywhere in all walks of life..can be your boss or somebody working alongside you...plenty damaged people....there were and i met many beautiful people...those i dearly miss sometimes....perhaps in the next lifetime,,no regrets, plenty of blessings. good times & not so good times! that also is how life is.....😍
Yes I was a sannyasin of Bhagwan/Osho from Poona and it was, a beautiful time in my life. Being at the Ranch in Oregon with so many open loving people and simultaneously awareness as the untouchable stillness of being was amazing. Really meditation and the whole spiritual journey is about being present as being, and this is now as this... So any journey in time to endevour to be here as this is just the fanciful ideas of an identifying sense of self. Being is the dissolution of self into and as this... Self would rather seek in time and be "spiritual" . Lol..
It's like you fall in live with yourself, others & the world in such a accepting and complete way..of course mankind hasn't reached the lofty heights where this can be sustained ..it will happen one day
Fascinating! Can we please have a part II.? This gentleman is so educated. And we know so little about this cultures/cults in India, Tibet etc. Please Andrew, I cannot wait! Thank you so much, both of you! XX
@@AndrewGold1 Awesome. Also, are you keeping tabs on the developments in Kenya with the followers of Pastor Paul Mackenzie, and the seeming surge in extreme Christian cults in Africa?
@@thomasbarchen Can you please specify your question? My post was about the India Effect, the cults...not about the culture, mediation, religion itself. First read, than think, than write. Thank you.
Please get a real Tibetan Lama who can explain Buddhism, meditation, karma, how it could go wrong, or what goes wrong-- etc. It would clear up alot of misconceptions.
Excellent question to start with, Andrew! I know what meditation’s about but many people don’t, and that’s an important place to start! Fascinating interview and topics, as usual. You’re sharing a lot of key information with all your interviews, appreciate what you’re doing, and how you do it, so much. Color me a fan.
Yes sadly people with psychosis are everywhere and need help. My friends wife had psychosis and just suicided despite having a normal life and doing normal wonderful things like playing music. We dont blame him or the music or what she was doing she simply had a mental illness. Meditation is our natural state. And exactly like he said talking, walking, eating can be a meditation. Silent retreat is a beautiful experience however it isnt recommended by people who already have a hard time sitting still and some mental health conditions are better supported by movement meditation or mindfulness in action.
Meditation is not a normal state, that's selling points of whole this scene, but it's cliche and at best misguided. It's as saying introverted ppl are more adjust to the world that extroverted and/ or other way around, plus meditation became umbrella term , same as new age, it's very dangerous to generalize it and then coming up with empty statement like- meditation is natural state - if it would be it- we would be in it, but we are born to be stimulated by outside world, and taking on challenges of this outside world, not to be be born in the meditation cell and experiencing your inner world until you die.... it's very wide subject and I wont go into it , but just please intelligent ppl out there- stop ( meditate if that help you) and think before you making public statement like this....
@@karolinaszczudlo9871 meditation and mindfulness arent even real, theyre just made up terms to describe an imaginary thing. It's weird that most people dont know this.
@@joejones9520 yes, well, good marketing and joggling with new speak goes long way doesn't it? Before all this "eastern mysticism invasion" life was so much easier - so called mindfulness was simply paying attention to what you're doing - is paying attention, so called meditation, one could compare to paying attention to what's going on inside your head or inside your body - without putting drama into it, repetition of mantras etc its just same as using rosary in Catholic tradition - autohypnosis, trans like state - I never liked it, cause it makes you more on autopilot,
We need to take Refuge in GOD'S WORD, exercise, stretch and join a group of studying his word. Play music sing dance. All the meditation and isolation is crazy.
It is my experience. It is not the natural state of the mind as the mind is always pulling us outward, this is why people become disturbed. Meditation is like exercise for the mind to settle so we can experiece the silent truth of what we are truly, some use words to call it peace, love God. The challenging thing is as you begin the mind can seem loud at first by contrast. Its like as you start cleaning your house the dirty parts look more dirty by contrast then before you cleaned. If you stop and focus there it csn make you crazy, you feel overwhelned. Its good to go slow. If we compare it to exercise for the body. When you first exercise your body hurts. It could be easy at first to blame exercise as being bad, or quit, or blame it as the cause of pain. But it is just because it is awakening the acid that build up in muscle, and at first it makes you sore. But as you get into a routine of it it slowly disappears and you become more healthy. But people go to extremes with exercise too amd seriously hurt themself. Some get obsessed and even take steriods. We dont blame exercise and start shaming people who exercise and boycotting it as hurting people. Using our intelligence we understand it isnt exercise thats the problem it is who and how the person is exercising that needs to be adjusted. There is no difference to this and meditation. It goes for most things, there are always people who take things to extremes or approach things in an imbalanced way and harm themselves. Even with simple things like food. Even some people misuse objects, ie some people eat toilet paper… most of us understand that it is an imbalance, it is an illness. We don’t blame the object the person in misusing, as most people know how to use such objects in a way they were intended and in a balanced helpful way. There will always be people no matter what is there who are prone to harming themself with otherwise benign things, it is a disease. In the mental hospital you can’t even keep objects like pens or anything someone could turn into a rope, even too many garments, because the intent of some of the people there, due to their mental state is to use anything around them as an object to harm themself. If we blamed and banned such objects the world would be sparse. Intelligence understands that a few people, or sometimes even any person can get into such a mental state, and they need treatment for a time. These people are in every facet of society including meditation retreats. Again lets use our intelligence to see that its a worldwide problem, rather than blaming their surroundings and what they are engaged in. And pray those in this state get the help they need🙏🏻
I have a friend who somehow has become a follower of a Hari Krishna type cult. She changed her name into an Indian name and has made trips to India. She posts photos of their activities on Facebook. It kind of worries me. I hope nothing bad happens to her, like in India by herself. She is not a really close friend, but is a super sweet person. I don't understand why she did this.
Someone tried to recruit me to the Hare Krishnas today, just because I replied to their comment "Hare Krishna" "What happened to those guys? I used to see them in the city centre a lot, dinging their little hand cymbals and singing in their orange robes with their shaved heads, but I've not seen them for 20 years..." I thought they'd done a disappearing act. I hope your friend is okay. I guess some people get a bit lost in the modern world and are looking for something meaningful. Especially super sweet, sensitive people. I hope she doesn't end up being used or abused. My Indian friend tells me there are a lot of unscrupulous people looking for foreign wives out there 😕
@@happydillpickle They're still out there. I've seen them handing out brochures at the mall in my old neighborhood twice out of the 5 or so times I've been there over the course of the past six years. They're not wearing the orange robes (not all of them at least, the most recent time there was one wearing it) but still chanting and recruiting. And they seem determined because it doesn't look like many people are stopping to speak with them but they keep at it.
It's the type of thing some people do when they're trying to figure out they're place in the world or going through an identity crisis. You aren't wrong to be at least a little worried. Just be honest with her about your concerns.
No responsible Buddhist meditation teacher would let a student do an extensive retreat unless student has trained before and is mentally stable has the right motivation. So don't blame meditation itself.
To an extent, I agree. There's something creepy about this guy, especially the way he harped on how the victim was his "favorite student" in light of the perversion he later admits is horribly common in these types of "teachers."
In the early 00's, as teens, many of my friends fell into the obsession and romantisization of eastern spirituality through the drug scene (especially psychedelics) and a fixation on music and culture from the 1960's. We're all nerds & gamers, so those types of interests mapped well onto eastern spirituality. Some friends would use terms from videogames such as "magika and mana" and refer to themselves as wizards. One friend even named his daughter Artemis, after a character from the Bhagavad Gita. My sister's bf even tried to convince me that he could levetate through the power of meditation. We used to camp in the forest once a year for a few days whenever the Rainbow Gathering would come to our area, and I remember there was a Tibetan monk traveling with them. After that, a few friends started conceptualizing themselves as monks and would walk around wearing robes. Even now, over a decade later, some friends continuously repost Osho quotes on their fb. I think that, at least in the US, this kind of psychedelic culture and fixation on eastern spirituality has roots in a cointelpro op from the 60's with the goal to subvert existing progressive political movements at the time. It all feels very counterfeit to me. Nobody will ever achieve enlightenment through the use of psychedelics. They might open up your perception, but there's a reason why monks dedicate their whole life to this spiritual practice. You have to be firmly grounded in reality and willing to work & make sacrifices to achieve a real relationship with "god," the source, whatever you choose to call it. Edited to fix spelling error. Accidentally referred to Osho as Osha hahaha
The Aghori of India would strongly disagree with this statement: "They might open up your perception, but there's a reason why monks dedicate their whole life to this spiritual practice. You have to be firmly grounded in reality and willing to work & make sacrifices to achieve a real relationship with "god," the source, whatever you choose to call it." also Artemis is an Ancient Greek goddess, maybe read the the Bhagavad Gita before acting like you know about it?
I meditate daily and it is at the heart of my recovery from severe depression. However I would say meditation helps me to stay present and calmer but I can only describe it as a normal experience - there is nothing highly mystical about it. My teacher never made any if this weirdness. I do agree that I do come across people that have trouble understanding what it is because they try to understand it from a western perspective- ie get hung up on doing it right, buying all sorts of things you don’t need and can’t understand its not about a religion or god or afterlife - its hard for them to understand it’s not about doing it to get something, to get some sort of reward. i like the story about a Zen master who was asked what happens after death he replied “how should I know?” - the man replied because you are a zen master - he then replied “yes but I am not a dead Zen master”
I went to a trauma therapist for 12yrs to try and heal inner child wounds. Growing up in a narcissistic moms household did a # on me. Passive dad no help. She tried every which way to help with meditation. Needless to say my brain quiet is scary. I can’t just sit and be. My inner critic is too loud. I can’t meditate nope
@P S thank you so much 😊 I will be sure to check it out. I am unable at this time to stop & do mindfulness. DBT therapy. My brain just responds. It’s when I sit quietly does that “inner critic,” the one who wants to keep me stuck grows louder & louder to the point where she’s screaming. That’s the part that wants to keep me stuck in the past. Thank u again for the recommendations
I've been to a laughing meditation session like the one you attended. The teacher was unlikeable and awkward and formal, so that laughing became a chore, until the students started to find the idea that they had paid a heap of money for this miserable experience extremely funny, and soon we were roaring with genuine laughter. I've also attended laughter yoga which was a wonderful experience.
@@hilaryswan4323 im not working within that.. i just know mindfullness have been used.. By the way.. as I said. We are energy. .. Positive thinking is the best way ❤
Meditation is part of my healing journey. I just sit down and listen to myself deep breathing. So I'm interested in this one. I had a friend who always wanted to do these guided meditations. Did it once and hated it. Totally ineffective to me, I felt loads of anxiety and fell asleep. Since there is a lot of money to be made in the spiritual and self-help industry, I am very cautious and I just really prefer to sit by myself with my own divine presence. No priest or guru required.
"No priest or guru required" This should be a general filter for all wanting to do meditation or religion. In this day and age you don't need to pay anyone to learn how to meditate or pray. We have easy access to know how. Just stick with traditional sources and avoid those who promise you heaven and earth.
@@matej7501 ohhh .... Traditional sources go wry too. Did you catch the part of the interview when the (#th) Dalai Lama called in the Mongols to massacre a sect that was not to his liking? Or popes in the time of history when they had so much influence in politics, it was a political act to support one's power by putting the "right" person to the Vatican? (Like the house of Medici? Having lovers, children, corruption etc....) Being "traditional" doesn't save you from joining something unhealthy. Plenty of examples are there too. Never look at an other human being as "god like". Not western, not eastern, not new age, not traditional. Everything that gets too big can go to the "person's head" by a bunch of followers telling them how exceptional they are. They get "high" on that and start to lose the grounding of their own processing of reality. (If you Google "Diane Langberg, abuse of power in church" there are a lot of information how it works. It doesn't matter if it is eastern or western. We all are subjected to do same mistake. )
I suspect that somebody choosing to jump off a roof is entirely down to her personal tragedy, and not even necessarily related to her being at a meditation class. Basically she was damaged.... otherwise known as a loony.
My favourite saying ever goes something like, "The devil mostly doesn't come in a cape and horns, he comes as the thing you want the most." Always be careful about you crave the deepest, there are always exploiters and abusers willing to give it to you. I am so glad that I never got attracted by the Wim Hoff stuff. When I heard him talk about his wife dying and then he got into these ice baths the story creeped me out from the beginning. Guys like him are such a part of the bro cult in which people have to torture themselves and shame others to belong.
Beginning meditation can be painful for many people. It is misinformation to tell people they will feel better when learning meditation. Often there are many traumas that surface and that is important for people to know.
Right, and it's not the meditation to blame for it. It looks to me the guy instead of taking responsibility for mental state of his student, he claimed to be a meditation teacher in his early 20!!! What experience knowledge or insight did he have at such a young age to lead anyone in meditation? To support someone who might have a mental breakdown if too many things come up in intense meditation. Or when a student becomes delusional? Instead of admitting his role in the student's confused mental state that lead to a suicide he went on a crusade to blame ancient meditation traditions. What he says a out Tantra and preliminary practices proves he has no idea or experience in what he's talking about. Unbelievable.
I started studying this facet of sociology in college as a degree in 1975 and afterward began the fantasy story called the Book of Wibblry and WUB that depicts the story of cults, of religions, of cultures but tries to explain the idea of communication of our energy of soul through words, thoughts, things wii (all the "I"s of the world) create. The explanations crazy people give for what they can do but few others should even try for it is their perspective that makes them unique and at some point crazy. What is sanity and life but what wii leave behind based on the actions wii take, the things wii create, and the words wii use to communicate that. You have multiple languages, experiences, and thus developing wisdom in ways few can that gives you both special perspectives, the perspicuity it takes to remain sane amidst the many temptations to believe "I alone have the answer!" Thanks for the great show.
🇺🇸 This is an astonishing interview. I’ve known of incidents where the start seemed pure but went awry with the others not being able to even relate to the person. Such a fine line
For me , learning how to meditate wasn’t a rocket launch but a long and difficult process learning to keep my attention inside and in the here and now. I only started noticing results after many many months. Meditation is not a destination but a journey. It’s not a religion either
I had a similar spiritual experience to the young lady that took her own life and it was due to someone drugging my drink at a party. The police ended up hand and foot cuffing me and took me to a mental hospital. They sedated me thinking I was having a psychotic episode. When the sedation wore off we pieced together what had happened. It was like a mushy trip but on speed maybe. I have never had acid or speed so just going by what other people told me. I also had what felt like convulsions and a trippy dude in the psych ward told me it was from rat poison! I was going through a spiritual evolution during the fit, I was an ant, then I would morph into a snake, then a dog etc until I reached the pinnacle, a gay guy that managed the resort I worked at. I thought I could drive a car without hands on the wheel! Nearly had an accident lucky it ran out of fuel and I didn't know what to do. Many other delusions. Funny now but not at the time. Also thought someone in the family had to die so I thought I better K myself so no-one else had to die. Lucky it passed to another delusion before I could act it out.
Damn! I hope you haven't had any other lasting effects and got all the follow-up to make sure you'd be OK! Also I hope you didn't get charged for anything and the perp got convicted instead!
@@nerysghemor5781 no I am all good now. I just added it to a very interesting experience. I did see a therapist for a year and a solicitor told me not to worry about the police as I had been drugged and that would be my defence. The police didn't continue with charging me. The perpetrator I have my suspicions but can't prove it. Hopefully after they saw what it did they felt guilty and never did it again. Thanks for caring 💗🇦🇺
The Dark Side of Meditation. Well, Andrew another topic I wasn't aware of before. Scott knows so much on this subject and the way he articulates this information, made my head spin. I remembered a question that someone asked me once: What is the one thing that every person on the planet is seeking, every second, untill death? PLEASURE. IE freedom from pain, loneliness, debt. The desire for food\water sex, love, ego gratification, bliss, Nirvana, full illumination, and anything else can think of. My take away on this subject is that there is something fundamentally missing with so many people that are using meditation to achieve sensory pleasure, but are skipping the preliminary lesson of the human species and that is to become the best person you can be through right action. What is needed are honest and wise teachers, but where in the world do you find them that haven't turned to, or won't turn to corruption? Another fascinating interview Andrew. I really enjoyed this. I peeked in on Scott's channel. I plan on going back for a better look 🙂.
Wow. This has SO much to do with lori vallow and chad daybell. Lori spent quite a bit of time in Arizona. And mysticism and metaphysical practices have blended with mormonism in idaho to form these offshoot doomsday prepper groups. This is all just so interesting and has much wider implications than just within meditation.
What a great interview! You both touch on many topics closely related to people's core beliefs. Scott is very interesting and wonderful to listen to. Thanks.
I think a silent retreat would drive me bonkers 😂 Other than some mindfulness, which I can only do in short intervals (like a minute or less to calm down), I can’t sit somewhere and meditate. Hats off to people who can do that for even ten minutes!
I learnt to meditate in mid 90 ties. I was into studying, had a child, and my partner and i split up. It all was very sad and it was very stressful. Without dayly meditation (with calming music) i dont think i'd be here to day. ❤🙏
@@Yooperskepticz i find these comments strange.. i did meditate every day for years.. it made me calm, healthy and able to overcome challenges. Now i meditate off and on when I feel i need more peace, energy and balance. Back to the heart space ❤
You're obviously a dude (like me) so try this : put a white A4 (printer) paper in front of you with something dark the size of a big coin (or a coin) at the center,turn on a strong table lamp light on it,look at the coin for about 4 minutes (you can use timer),than close your eyes and keep them closed until the bright spot (which was coin) in your closed eyes dissapears. It will change your brain waves whether you like it or not. It might be difficult to keep your eyes focused at the "coin",your eyes might wander but it'll work. It feels great afterwards and it takes only 6-7 minutes. It's not "a philosophy",I call it instant meditation - a tool to train the brain like exercise is for muscles. P.S. I hate everything "New Age" and pretencious doucheb*gs. And 90% of people falling for this BS are women. We fall for women.
My mom was jumping from one scammy new age cult to the next so I've been never tempted to have anything to do with this, thank god. All they did was take her money and feed her narcissism.
Christianity is toxic and there’s no way you can convince me otherwise. History proves Christianity makes people do things for their god including war. The world would be better without your religion.
But first study the Bible as without The Word of God, most importantly The Gospels, you wouldn't know how to recognize God from The Devil. Which is what a Christian is taught about on how to do it. Jesus Christ saved me from the darkness and he is My Lord and Savior!
@On the Edge with Andrew Gold, I see Scott has a book behind him called “the wedge” however often all you can see is the edge. Subliminal advertising? 😂
I was just reading a lecture over breakfast by Swami Vivekananda called "Bhakti Yoga" (from Vol. 9 of the Complete Vivekananda book set). In it he writes there's fanatics who are deep in their spirituality, really hardcore, have a relationship with god, but they see the world through a very small hole that does no good for others nor themselves. The other group is very shallow, touching this and that and going here and there, and skipping over everything, which means they have no relationship with god, which does no good for themselves, nor others. Swamiji then says the best route is to find the middle ground. That was 1895 ...... we didn't listen.
When I was in my early twenties, I knew a young man who was extremely intelligent. He was a really sweet person as well. One day he disappeared from our social group. I found out he was in a nearby mental hospital. He had delved into a very deep meditation regimen, and he literally became lost in his own mind. He was unreachable. He was in there for years. Last I know he was still there. I hope he came out of it. He was a good guy.
Anyone else getting 'main character' syndrome from Scott? As in, I know /he's/ being interviewed, this is /his/ story, /his/ perspectives that are being explored... However, he exclusively discussed Emily's death as though it were a plot device in his life's story.
It's my understanding that Meditation is "a singular focus of something in that moment" shutting out all distractions . Some people would say being introspective while taking a walk is a Form of meditation others will tell you reading poetry or psalms and considering it's mean is a form of meditation . I think any form of introspection that yields positive results is also meditation
Hello Andrew, you might want to look into vitamin deficiencies for the mouth ulcers... Love your show by the way, always a pleasure to watch you, such an attentive, insightful and empathetic interviewer, a beautiful person inside out.
Super-enjoyed this Interview! Thanks you!! Went to a WhimHof retreat recently. They heavily pressed on the fact to NOT do the breathing before swimming. And it also says so eveywhere on his App....so..🙏.hopefully no more drowning accidents!!
Fascinating and really well presented. Re: the zeal of the convert, my mother, who was a smoker, often said that ex-smokers were like born-again Christians.
Wow! What an interesting interview! I use meditation and biofeedback for pain management (with Percocet I'm not stupid!) . I was born with a chronic illness and my folks tried ANYTHING to improve my life, and I think this guy probably has some fascinating stories! Have him back sometime Andrew! Well done mate! Love your content! 💜✌️
Yes. I've been meditating for many years and attend a fairly local Theravada Buddhist monastery, which is the most peaceful and beautiful place I've ever been - truly another world. I was also a member of a Gurdjieff group, and there are definitely similarities in the philosophy and the practice with Buddhism. Eckhart Tolle is also an extraordinary person, and much of what he speaks about I can relate it to Mr Gurdjieff. Only found your podcast site recently, via Shaun Attwood, and am really enjoying your very chilled-out approach, and the way you let your guests speak without constantly interrupting them like so many other hosts do. With Metta 🙏
Should add I study different branches of Buddhism in my own time for last 30 years to give myself peace and life lessons everything from Tao poetry from Dr Dwyer Buddhist principles explained for myself to be a better person and evolve...I don't know why I'm not keen on Eckhart I don't have a good reason...just my opinion
I think Yoga and studying Buddhism does promote a healthy lifestyle but everything has a balance ♎ you can't make Anything your whole life whether it's relationships, children or Religion 💜 Anyway I truly enjoy watching your videos - thank you 😌
So weird that silent retreat is your topic this week as i just went for the first time in Fribourg, Switzerland. I had the most enjoyable time! Felt like i had found the secret to happiness or something... ❤ Sorry, the guest speaker 1. Did not express what i know to be meditation; 2. Does not have the vibe of a meditator. Quite unsettling imo.
Buddhism teaches the end of suffering is the end of desires.... looks like all these cases are folks who lost this message entirely...chasing their desire for grandeur in occult supernatural achievement. Where I have studied, it was instructed to us that even if we acquired some supernatural abilities, we had to keep them secret and not show them off or think we have reached enlightenment, because puffing up the ego either with peer praise or our own feelings of superiority is the actual impediment to Nirvana.. the only time to use these abilities is either to save/heal ones life or the life of others
I was just talking about the Theosophical Society today. I went to college in San Diego, Point Loma Nazarene, that once was the home to the only successful Theosophical Society commune in the US. Some of the original buildings are still there. I remember learning some crazy stories during my time at school.
Yes, ive meditated every day for years, best time of the day. I call it 'me time' afterwards nothing matters, you realise everything is as it is. Loved this interview, thanks Andrew❤
It is all fine until you live in the west where other people before you worked and sacrificed for having a society with basic human rights and other standards that makes your life easy. Go live in a place where you have 5-6-7 children, no healthcare, not enough food but working all day, hard labor to keep some food on your table and have a roof over your family's head and then "is as it is" a totally different experience. You don't even know what you have, that you have because others before you fought for it. Others who were not ok with "as is".
@@tahwsisiht I'm 71 years old, four children three grandchildren, I grew up in poverty conditions and know what it's like to scrimp and scrape to make ends meet .. meditation is what kept me sane during those hard times. Time can be like money, some people can spend it wisely others just waste it watching shit TV. Playing games. Do you watch shit TV, play games, spend time on your phone? Don't knock it till you've tried it. It's not for everyone maybe it's not for you. It's also good to respect other people's views and not speak harshly of those you do not know. ❤️
@@jeanthornton2107 I just saw your reply right now. I will address it as soon as I am off from work. Because I take responsibility for myself, I like to make sure my work is as I am: reliable. I "see you later" to clear your question about me, my views and my "rude", "insensitive" reply.
@@jeanthornton2107 The name Jean can be given to a male or a female. In the US, it is more likely female name. Ms. Jean. I am passionate about democracy, being well informed and aware of psychology. Awareness of cults, brainwashing and to understand how everyone can be brainwashed, even well educated people. To understand that if you don't use your own mind, you are giving away your most important power: your chance to survive and your ability to make sense of your world. I think telling people that the best thing they can do is to tune out is the worse idea that one can give at a time when the future depends on actions humanity is making right now. If you are 71, you were born around 1952. You think your generation wasn't brainwashed because you had no phone? Your generation was even more brainwashed because it was harder to get the truth out. Information was in a hand of corporations and to have a platform in the media was limited to very few people. Your generation was told that smoking is ok. That is even safe for pregnant women. Oil companies did research about global warming and in the 1970ies, they have been having the data that burning fossil fuel in this rate will have many negative effects. Many in your generation still unable to understand that global warming is real. There were countless wars and the narrative was always twisted to justify it for the public. There will be always people who will try to push their agenda based on their interest. The more power they have, the more damage they can inflect on the rest of the society. Power corrupts. Being aware of it, to learn that criticism, questioning what you have been told and what you have been believing is the only way to protect yourself and your family. If you were born in 1952, you have been started to have children in the middle of the 1970ies. So you had 4 children and you were having a daily meditation practice for years. If you look up how much parents have to work to support their 4 children you learn that one parents income is not enough and often having multiple jobs are not enough. I am glad that after taking care of your 4 children and the house all day you could squeeze in time for meditation, but to think that after all day working, coming home to 4 children AND to find time to meditate on top of that what is something reasonable is delusional. Not because of the phone, but because a day is 24 hours. Try to make some math how much time you have left after work to actually being with your children, not having a "me time" but having a nurturing family time when your children feel connected, seen and loved. It is not "time management", it is math. Meditation itself never prevented people from wars or ill intentions. Meditation can be highjacked and used to control people. Don't believe in image. Don't be impressed by "mega" things. I believe in sacred relationships between people. Between partners (couples of the same sex or heterosexual), between friends, between parents and their children etc. But I don't believe that you have to go and listen to someone on a platform and to mystify it. Better to scratch "sacred" and call it healthy because it is nurturing and there are care for each other, intention to respect and not to exploit. It happens in private and don't follow a guru for it. I vote for psychologist, not a guru that you attached attributes what he mimicks so you can feel satisfied and hooked.
Have you heard of this kind of thing? Are you into meditation? Let me know below! Help my sponsor: Wipe your details from data collectors! The first 100 people to use code ANDREWGOLD at the link below will get 60% off of Incogni: incogni.com/andrewgold
I have tried meditation but I have never achieved it and I'm glad. I would be very hard on myself for not doing it properly and what a waste of energy!
I have a friend who has supernatural ability who won't meditate, though she is Buddhist, because she fears losing control of her faculties and being taken over by "others"
Andrew, have you heard of the Kenyan cult that starves its members to death???? So freaking sad and crazy!
@@erciliaflores yes im trying to do an episode about that kenya thing soon! thanks ercilia!
Aum un Japan
yes i practice meditation, i also pray for guidance & protection to be aware & allow Gods will over mine.
in my view, it's not meditation that is the danger, but the human ego, which can use anything toward a bad end or selfish purpose, the ego can game/hack any system, church, faith or political cause to taint or ruin anything it touches & tries to possess, the ego takes the principle of survival & surviving & can distort it to delusional proportion, viewing everything that is not *Pro Ego²* to be not only false& wrong but the enemy, & an adult with an unhinged/untempered & ego run amok can behave like a spoiled child turned loose with dangerous weaponry....
Yes I meditate and I feel more at peace for it. But it’s just one tool I use for navigating this crazy world.
I spent 6 years in Japan studying martial arts and eastern medical traditions. Due to my occupation as a massage therapist I kept falling into western foreigner groups who were dogged pursuers of enlightenment. I was that person who always challenged their idea of active pursuit. I will admit I enjoyed pissing them off. Needless to say I was branded as a simpleton who didn't take "it" seriously enough. 30 years later I still meet insufferable groups of the righteous. IMO it's called personal growth because it's meant to be personal and not a group performance.
Go! Go! Go! and Thank You. Namaste 🙏
Robin Rickard, your challenger services are needed in LA.
Agreed every journey is different and in different stages of our own personal journey 🙏🏼
For them, You are the voice of the smiling Buddha inviting them to realize their enlightenment and save them from their egotistic self flagellation.
Jesus Christ should be a solution also. Try him and see,it won't hurt you a bit to try
Alan Watts talks a lot about that, the "spiritual one up man ship"
As an Asian American, I always thought this was funny. My parents converted to Christianity in Korea in part because of the corruption of the Buddhist hierarchies there. And then I see all these white people around me wanting to pursue Buddhism or Hinduism because it’s not corrupt like Christianity. Haha, grass is always greener.
Me? I’ve left organized religion. Group dynamics are fascinating and terrifying.
What do u believe in now? I've experienced spiritual abuse in a pentecostal church I was in over 10 years. This was over 5 years ago and I tried to return a few times.bit it's actually gone worse!!
Don't put your faith in people or churches they will fail even the chosen will be deceived. Soo always put your focus and faith in Christ. Unfortunately is sad and horrible what they do in. Churches now day. Yet our main focus is Christ.
We need to keep searching for the group where we do feel safe and heard , we need to have dicerment so we dont get fooled.
❤ blessings.
@carenlzarate8603 I totally agree...every even pastor's I e put on a pedestal have come crashing down...also so called friends in the church.
Right. Only white people. Sounds like you're still indoctrinated.
Your last sentence says it all.
Love the fact Andrew truly listens to his guests.
true
doesnt have to correct them tho - like insisting the guy was stabbed in the side not the chest
I unfortunately married someone once when I was very young who was an Osho follower but back when he was still called Bagwan Shree Rajneesh. I watched a quirky, meditator, who was a master of martial arts, go insane right in front of me. I even became his disciple for a while unfortunately because he started his own spin off Enlightenment cult. I grew up in a 70s doomsday cult before that, so I guess I was set up to find these troubled people. I wish I could say that was the end of my esoteric Journey but it wasn't. Eventually I found a faith that was real that didn't have any Insanity connected to it. There are people out there who have faith that are not insane, and actually help others, due to their faith, not in spite of it.
I find Osho really fascinating and incredibly charismatic. I even visited his Ashram in Pune a decade or so ago and had to take an AIDS test and buy two different colors of robes to gain admittance. I skipped the scheduled orgies, but did see lots of people speak in tongues. Fascinating. I should have written about it.
I would love to hear you on this show
@@sgcarney You "skipped the scheduled orgies" 😅😅😅
Thank you for sharing. Which faith did you eventually gravitate to?
Sad how many people dont know that Osho is that same old wack job ... Rajneesh .
I have meditated daily for 40 years and used to teach yoga and meditation. I would never recommend a beginner go into long periods of meditation or a retreat because of possible negative consequences including insanity. Start with small periods of meditation regularly. There is no need for meditation for hours at a time anyway. Also have come across people who have become schizophrenic from various psychic and meditative practices. Finding a good teacher/s help with safe practices also.
Insanity can come by from external sources. Schizophrenia can not. You can't give yourself Schizophrenia. It may seem that way since people with the disorder are usually asymptomatic until their 20's.
and how are other areas of your life? are they truly congruent? I mean... since, even if not meditating insanely to the point of going into a psychotic break, yoga and meditation (particularly the former due to its roots that are much more contacted as you go deeper into yoga) anyway open doors to some things that are not precisely good for us spiritually speaking. So, a good thing to assess between traditions and practices is: what are the fruits of it? because by them you can know.
& I wonder just how many people are in mental wards accross the world who have just had a kundalini awakening
That's how it starts off at first. Small meditation at a time is still not ok to practice. It invites satanic entities. U should not be leading pple to their early grave. I don't think most pple r aware of the evil powers they open up their lives to.
For 25 years I was in the occult and new age. Did it all until The True and Living Creator God took hold of me and took me from under the power of darkness into His Glorious Light. He totally forgave me of every ungodly thing and thought I had ever had. And the more you Know Him (Jesus) the more Love, Joy and Peace are in your Life. True Born Again Christian's are not the ones who only sit in a church on a Sunday and are hypocrites the rest of the week. He lives in us and we live in Him. Repent and call on the Name of Jesus and He will answer by setting you free. ☝️🙌
My earliest( and most powerful) meditation was when I didn't know I was meditating. At the time, I was into free climbing. Rock climbing without gear. One mistake and you die, zero margin of error. REALLY focuses the mind.
Yes, climbing is like a meditation for me. Usually my mind is always flying with 50 thoughts at the time, and can't relax. But when I climb everything drops off... There's only the now. No thoughts, no worries, no emotions or desires, just each moment.
Funny thing is in heavily Christian areas in the US, it's been common for a long time to warn people against those forms of meditation because it's thought that trying to open yourself up to things like that leaves you open to spirits like demons and the like and that it can be dangerous, and people always call them crazy for it, but it seems like even if you don't believe in literal demons they have some wisdom in their words.
They need to issue warnings on their own " hands on " preachers !
In my church, meditation is reading the Bible and then to ruminate or think about what you've just read.
@@cathiemcginnis3997 yeah I'm not talking about Biblical meditation though, more the Eastern version of meditation having more to do with opening oneself up
@@baddragoniteI was taught this, especially when you are chanting in a language you don't understand. You don't know what you are asking to enter you.
indeed, they started to see this and started to warn people. At first, when I was full on spiritual stuff... I laughed about Christians saying this... many people in the new age ways today (including all the spiritual paths from the world that came up through it) think Christianity as almost naive or unknowing about the deeper complexities of other spiritual practices.... but... MY experience was... that after 20 years of observing people from both sides (Christians/Catholics vs. all others) I have been able to see how Christians have a constant, congruent and consistent growth over time both in their tangible/worldy and their spiritual lives. And I have seen how the things they warned about... were sensible and on point. I have seen many in the other spiritual practices went south eventually... even if being "masters" or whatnot about those paths. God IS good = the paths of the Lord are intentionally good for us, which means He doesn't take you to places where He'd expose you to danger but to places where you can grow fine, in peace, with the right amount of challenge and experiences, this is how you learn to FULLY trust Him, even more in the spiritual realms that... well, as this video shows, are not just whatever. Needless to say... that's why I'm a Christian-Catholic nowadays.
I teach Buddhist meditation (not Tibetan), but would never lead or teach a silent retreat without knowing the people involved, as those people who are on the edge of psychosis can be tipped over the edge. If she was really "enlightened" to the understanding, she would know that she is far from really understanding. It goes against the teachings of the Buddha. Very sad that this happened.
Zen?
@@manuelolmeda1706 Yes, and sometimes Vipassana.
Prefer Shikantaza myself.
That disgusting . I know a few people who do meditation. They love in the different world. They expect you to bow wow them
They can be over defensive if u say something wrong .
You are absolutely right. This is why I spent so many years trying to understand what happened. I'd also note that even the Buddha had trouble teaching his meditation practices to his followers. Perhaps you know the story of Migalandika and how the Buddha's first attempt at teaching impermanence ended up with an entire monastery committing suicide.
Meditation saved my life, and helped me come back from the edge of insanity, caused by PTSD. ❤ Start small though!
MEDITATION got me started on healing CPTSD,too. Slow it all WAY DOWN, was the key for me. Glad you cane vackfrom tgst horribke edge, too!😂
I’d love to hear more. Was there a good place I could go to start or learn more information. CPTSD here.
Right me too after being a serious Christian for 13 years. I still believe in the gospel but in a different light I don't take anything all the way. That's when I believe you have problems
I need to try as i cant live with ptsd anymore.
Yes I don't think meditation is evil. Its just missused sometimes
Christian meditation is not looking inside of ourselves but upon the Word of God and asking the Lord what He is actually teaching us. No technique but a relationship with God.
My good mate got all caught up with Osho back in the 90s. I remember when he would come and visit me and he would keep trying to put these weird preachy tapes into my tape deck (yes kids, we had TAPE DECKS in our CARS back then!) all the time. He would be like "You HAVE to hear this guru, he speaks so much truth and wisdom!" ... as soon as he said that I would switch off mentally, lol. The tapes were SO BORING but he was proper into them. He took another good friend out to India later and they went to Pune together and, when they returned, they both had changed their flipping names. They were like "now you must know me as (insert weird hippy name here)" ... and we generally just took the mick out of them for it incessantly. They stuck to it though. Its funny because my mate was always a bit of a nutter but in the best kind of way but after he had been visiting Pune a few times he did start to become noticeably more unhinged. I would introduce him to a some friends, for example, and we would go for a drink and stuff and he would suddenly get this huge, slightly unsettling, smile and start screaming REALLY loudly. Not in a pained or distressed way, he would go on about how a scream was beautiful and a release of wondrous energy or something equally pretentious. Thing is, he would suddenly do it in a room full of people he had just met, often in mid-sentence and stuff! It got weirder too - they both became super sexual and touchy-feely, often to the point of awkwardness. The Osho bunch all really pushed the notion of free love, which is fine, but they then extended it outside their group, like they felt it was OK and 'natural' to just touch people unnecessarily and effectively snuggle up to other people's girlfriends and stuff. It was never to the point where it was creepy, but it was definitely inappropriate and awkward. Years later I stumbled across that documentary "Wild Wild Country" and all the screaming and stuff made so much sense. Thankfully going down my local pub was always more interesting to me than getting involved in any of that guru claptrap. I would much rather get sloshed with my mates and call them a bunch of pillocks than try to go around and "teach" them about how they can improve their lives by randomly screaming for no reason
I would call it demon possession what your screaming friend has shown to you
"By their fruits you shall know them." --Matthew 7:16
@@Skyv111 pretty sure I didn’t say that. I didn’t wake up until 7:30.
@@matthewwalker5430 ❤lol! =D yeah, you were dreaming then. Perhaps something that your unconscious brought up for you to check out! hope you're having a good day! here it's midnight already.
Are you still friends with them? Also, do you know if they are still into all that guru stuff?
This explains what happened with my ex 30 years ago! He had a realization that he should study comparative religion, especially the Tantric texts, and gets most of the way through a master's degree when we decamped to India for a year. While there, he had an awakening that he was destined to be a screenwriter and never finished his thesis. He was always chasing rainbows. He had been a Rosicrucian for a decade plus before I met him (theosophist offshoot). I thought he was mad at the time but these stories make him look pretty vanilla. This explains so much about him! 😵💫
Super interesting.
30 years later and he is still in your head rent free, he must have been onto something.
@@notsocrates9529 "Living in your head rent free" and "onto something" is a "non sequitur," Some people, you have known, situations you live get reframed as you live and learn, as they are a caution, doesn't make them enlightened or the experiences positive, complex meanings can be fruitfully revisited, and reframed.
@@Blissblizzard Try harder pseud, it is a colloquialism and people know what you are referring to when using said slang.
@@notsocrates9529 It's a put down, (used by pseudo ironically), in cults the term is "thought stopping" in in coercion it's known as a "shame attack" need l go on?
Many types of meditation.
Walking and being awake can be meditation. Being present-coherence in body and mind is best meditation. ❤
Really good - I went from being raised very conservative Catholic, to fundamental Evangelical (in my early 20s), to Alan Watts and Buddhist Temples, to yoga and then plant medicine retreats. You hit the nail on the head when you say it’s finding problems with the religious framework and then looking for another (a replacement). There is amazing feeling of insight in the beginning but then it either starts getting dogmatic or cult-y and then turns back into some kind of political thing and the spiritual benefits evaporate. I am definitely reading your book!
I began reading Buddhist literature when I was 14 and took refuge in Tibetan Buddhism when I was 19. I always say Buddhism is what moved me away from suicide. There was something I read that said taking your life takes you to a hell realm where you'll feel worse pain than what you're experiencing in life. It struck a cord with me and while I still grappled with depression for a long time, I no longer tried to take my life.
For me, when I've done a silent retreats, I felt a deep sense of peace. Never considered doing anything terrible to myself or others.
Yeah I was always an atheist growing up but in adulthood I started opening up to the possibility of the afterlife or the divine and reading about people that have died and been resuscitated and now I lean towards believing in the supernatural and, while I think about offing myself sometimes, I keep myself from doing that by thinking about how hard it would be on my family and how I might end up in Hell. Basically all religions contain the concept of an unpleasant underworld or subsection of the underworld where the dead go to be punished, at least in some of their sects. Whether it's Naraka or Tartarus or Gehenna or the Corpse Shore of Scandinavian pagan mythology, this concept is universal, as is the concept of demons. One thing that perplexes me is how even peoples that lived nowhere near any active volcanoes somehow knew that deep underground is an incredibly hot place, a "lake of fire", AKA the Earth's mantle of magma. Pretty weird. This whole universe is weird. Hard to rule anything out, you know?
Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by me.
@@pattytoscano9569 Yeah, Jesus was really deluded, obviously. A crazy guy in other words.
@@DutchmanAmsterdam Before I would stake that claim, try praying and studying the New Testament. You may change your mind.
Look up Ajahn Brahm, Buddhist Society of SW Australia. He has secular lectures on forgiveness, love, dealing with illness, discontent, regrets etc. Studying under him led me to Christianity. Silent prayer is meditation
The Heart Sutra says no attainment no non attainment, I’m a meditator, Buddhist for 20 years. I am always working on not trying to get somewhere or get something. The danger is misunderstanding the teachings.
Fascinating discussion. My partner and I owned a holistic health center for 15 years and we often encountered those who dove headfirst into the practices we were teaching. It’s very important to maintain balance and understand that we’re looking at these teachings through a western lens.
^This. Great comment!
Exactly. Meditation can be wonderful for people. It can also be a gateway into dangerous mental states. I like to think of it as powerful, not as innately good or bad. www.youtube.com/@sgcarney/videos
@@Vroomerz thanks Ryan 😊
well said
Just turn on the mainstream news or most social media. That'll make a person insane in a hurry.
I agree.
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Duh 🙄
I used to be very into New Age teachings and Occult practices. Without getting into an autobiography, I remember when I realised that everything I believed in was false and feeling devastated at having spent so much time, energy and money following a heap of fantasies. It was hard. I've since become a Christian and I know for many that would be like jumping into the fire from the fry pan but for me it has given me clear boundaries on how to live my life, know right from wrong, treat people with love and kindness and have a stable, productive life. It's also given me healthy ways to help others. My mind isn't crowded with crazy beliefs. The more I grow in my faith the more I appreciate people have a hunger for spirituality but its important to find a form of spirituality that encourages your growth as a person rather than incite you towards mental confusion.
I agree we are not God. We believe in God and Jesus, the Holy Spirit. Thanks you for speaking up.
Meditation is not an occult practice. The most conservative and elite medical facilities in the world, such as the Mayo Clinic, advocate a meditation practice because hard evidence shows positive results. People who have unfortunate proclivities and mental illnesses will be off - it has nothing to do with meditating. People with abusive childhoods will often go from one extremist cult and practice to another searching for a stable family experience.
They will also be expected to deny having experienced childhood abuse.
@@Bronte866what?
This is practically my own testimony! Yes! All glory to God for freeing me from demonic delusions!
Great intereview. By way of a minor correction, Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) was already heavily influenced by the western version of eastern spirituality from long before the Oregon commune. Some of his early discourses in English are almost direct plagiarisms from the work of Alan Watts and various Theosophical Society authors.
Yep you got that right.
Rashneesh/ Osho , Sadgu Guru, fake gurus, read a book and suddenly they are experts.
Beware of self appointed gurus.
Beware of real gurus
As well. Why?
Money corrupts every time.
I’ve been practicing transcendental meditation for 25 years. All it’s brought me is better health and a stronger sense of confidence and balance. My family saw the healthy progress in me and learned T.M 6 months after I was instructed, they still all practice and have never had any of the issues brought forth in this video. To me and my family it’s more like taking a walk somewhere beautiful or doing yoga. Just a nice easy way to destress and maintain a healthy mind and body. These stories were pretty scary and I feel horrible for the folks caught up in cults.
I won't go into any details, but I suffered terrible consequences of TM and did so for years. Apart from which, the supposedly meaning-free mantras you get at TM centres are in reality the names of lesser known Hindu deities. I don't like being lied to and manipulated.
I also have had nothing but positive experiences with TM. My teacher is careful to explain it’s dangerous to do more than 20 minutes at a time. (In a much more eloquent manner)
Some people can not handle meditation it is just not in their nature!!
@@trumurray8033 so what? Don’t do it then and don’t gain the benefits. Of which there are many. Total bullshit too, if anyone wants it bad enough it’s attainable. “Not in their nature” is a massive cop out for “not wanting it very badly”
@@vaska1999 Why no details? Did you meditate longer than 20 minute stretches? I’m about to begin my practice again so perhaps your details would assist another….?
Meditation is great. Cults & group mentality is not. I stay away from groups with rules and cult like behavior which includes religion. Meditate for yourself 😊
It takes real mental fortitude to do silent retreats. I have been doing it for 17 years and I see so many people doing courses who does not understand what it requires. Some think if they do 1 course they are now enlightened, after course people struggle to adapt, stepping into normal life. I have seen people lose their minds. If you have depression, mental issues, do drugs, ayuaschka etc. Do not do these retreats.
Bravo, my thoughts exactly!
I feel people with depression get unfairly lumped into that group. As someone with mild recurring depression, I benefit from regular meditation. As with anything, it is important to start small and see if (mindfulness etc) meditation is helpful and then not go to extremes. The recommended courses start with 8 to 10 minute sessions and then go up to 20 or 30 minutes at a time, no more. A weekend retreat would not tip most people over the edge.
@intrepidtomato You are right, there is no harm if you do it for short periods as you describe.
I thought psychedelic drugs went part and parcel with these retreats
Such a beautiful and necessary warning when our spiritual vanity becomes another deadly sin. Thank you Andrew for introducing us to Scott Carney. and his obvious wisdom.
Thanks for watching!
Sinners who visit tibet and meditate..
@@libbyhicks7549 ...or go to church 'religiously' and pray, and never stop telling people how much of a Christian they are. Sickening, right?
Sorry, but that poor girl had a psychotic break….Very sad.
Why are you saying "sorry but"? Like, are you disagreeing w something?
This was such a fascinating interview! Thank you Andrew for having Scott onto discuss this topic.
I'm glad to be here!
Meditation does not cure insanity. For some people, it can be dangerous because it makes the condition worse. It can be hugely beneficial though, and placing all traditions in the same boat with the relative few quacks is unfair. Scott's rants can be beneficial, however, if his warnings serve to make people more careful of joining a group.
omg thank you!
His student presumably wasn't learning from a quack!
@@barbeeska I just meant generally. You can go off the rails with the most legitimate meditation teachers if you are too unbalanced to start with. When I did the Goenka 10 day, there was a questionnaire that included Questions about mental health history and drugs, etc.
Cheers!
So glad you had Scott on your podcast, he's very passionate in his delivery ❤
I was psyched to be here!
Just wanted to let you know that the "deminishing returns" where the body adjusts to everything (almost) has a technical term - homeostasis. It's the body's #2 priority (#1 is keeping you alive.) And I don't think you have an addiction to your sinus spray, it's a dependence. Which is treated differently. Usually when you find this happening you have to reduce the medication or go off of it for a while and can come back to it later. Usually just reducing it, or even switching to a different spray may work. Like if you use a saline spray, then an aloe spray may work, or just using a Neti pot for a while. I'm a big geek medically, it's my one weakness ;) Also I love the show, this episode was great and the guest was amazing! Thank you!
Good advice , I may add diary is a contributor to sinus problems,,
I completely understand. I am a History geek and am refraining from typing out an, "actually" paragraph when referring to the comments on the crusade. It was a lot less spiritual and a lot more practical.
You can be physically addicted to Afrin. Even the label says only use it for 3 days, max. It's a real physical addiction, and the detox process is horrible.
Some people do indeed become enlightened or self realised. And they go about their daily lives as normal. Scott only talked about the extreme cases therefore giving a very unbalanced view of meditation. Taking any religion to literally or to heart can cause a psychotic break which unfortunately happened to the young girl that jumped to her death.
Scott, you're a prolific speaker, full of energy while your topics are horrific, I felt you captivated my undivided attention. Sounds like people looking for a savior and someone there to fit that bill. 💜
Interesting interview, insightful book. Pages turned, jaw dropped, knowledge gathered. Thank you!
This was a jaw dropping interview Andrew!! I ran to sub to Scott’s channel!! This was serendipitous for me!! I’ve been struggling with where I’m at spiritually, and why things are not working for me like they seem to be for others. I’ve been beating myself up, thinking I’m doing something wrong! What don’t I get?? Then I watched Aaron Dougherty last night, and I couldn’t have disagreed with him more!! It made me soo angry!! And I finally realized these “gurus” don’t know shite about shite!! They’re no more “enlightened” than I am!! Then today, my daughter mentions “spiritual bypassing!” And then I see your podcast!! Let’s just say I’m tripping at how much I needed to hear Scott’s story!! I’ve always been fascinated by cults, so I love your channel!! I think I’m very lucky I have super suspicious and grounded people in my life, otherwise I might have been caught up in such a thing!! Thanks for bringing this to light Andrew!! ✨💞✨🙏✨
Thanks for listening! And it's really awesome to hear that I might have helped a tiny bit before you ran into trouble! I'll do some more videos on this topic in particular down the line over at www.youtube.com/@sgcarney/videos
Guru Adi Da Samraj was a egoist, but had one good thing he said: there are two types of gurus, little g gurus and BIG G GURUS. BIG G GURUS are rare and include Ramana Maharshi (and obviously, Adi Da LOL), while little g gurus are students who have grown a huge ego. ........................ I think that's true. I would also say that 98% of gurus are little g gurus, or just teachers, or gurus in title only.
As I was turning away from my Christian root and journeying spiritual I drew the line on who I listened to by how much money they needed to teach me something. Gods love is free, all spiritual teachings should be the same, or very nominal. I was grateful that Christ gave me time to figure out the Truth. Jesus’ resurrection is the truth. That He did it far all of us because he loved us so much just said all I needed to hear. Am I perfect, heck no, but he is. That is all that matters.
@@sgcarney Thank you!! I’ll definitely be watching!!
@@xhaltsalute it’s great that you found you’re way back to something that resonates with you!
So interesting. I took a weekend meditation class and can totally see how people go nuts. I was told that you have to be careful meditating when you are dealing with mental illness like depression etc. If you are “weak” meaning not able to protect yourself you can really fall down a hole while meditating
I wonder how you can screen for that issue. I've had problems with depression and anxiety and never had anything but positive effects. Maybe because my first introduction to meditation were simple guided meditations that stopped negative ruminations rather than encouraged them.
I have been meditating daily for only about 9 months now, but the positive benefits are astounding. I use this time to reinforce positivity, to heal from past trauma and re-program my subconscious mind. I have only had a couple of weird experiences, but mainly, uplifting, energizing and relaxing. Non of us know what’s going on in each others brains, but for me it’s a wonderful, trippy, experience that I can’t wait to do each day.
This is really good. As someone who has had "enlightening" experiences in meditation and and on plant medicine, I totally understand the powerful energy that's available in those experiences and how the messianic complex can kick in. We all want to be special, important, and seen... and we are. But the problem comes when we don't want to see others in that same light.
I personally believe the chakra's opening kundaline can be dangerous if power centre forced open . Makes sense, the reason people go mad.
Cult leaders l say ego . Meditation has many positive aspects. Really enjoyed interview .
Happened to me, spontaneous kundalini awakening, left me in a horrible place for 4 years. I’m finally healed but it took forever.
I was for many years part of the Osho tribe. In the beginning I had a lot of reservations since I had a very critical, doubtful mind.
Now, so many years later I can say being part of that group really served it’s purpose.
Now when one can see the outcome of all the inner work.
Some the most beautiful people I know came out of this tribe.
It was truelly a wonderful container for people with a burning desire
to reach a truthful, loving life.
If you took a snapshot of it 😮 it might look strange to an outsider looking in- but in reality these participants were people in the middle of a deep process.
Love your comment.
Indeed.I loved being part of such a group. It deeply affected me but i had boundaies and some people werent that great in it...thats how the world is, the same people appear everywhere in all walks of life..can be your boss or somebody working alongside you...plenty damaged people....there were and i met many beautiful people...those i dearly miss sometimes....perhaps in the next lifetime,,no regrets, plenty of blessings. good times & not so good times! that also is how life is.....😍
Yes I was a sannyasin of Bhagwan/Osho from Poona and it was, a beautiful time in my life. Being at the Ranch in Oregon with so many open loving people and simultaneously awareness as the untouchable stillness of being was amazing.
Really meditation and the whole spiritual journey is about being present as being, and this is now as this... So any journey in time to endevour to be here as this is just the fanciful ideas of an identifying sense of self. Being is the dissolution of self into and as this...
Self would rather seek in time and be "spiritual" . Lol..
It's like you fall in live with yourself, others & the world in such a accepting and complete way..of course mankind hasn't reached the lofty heights where this can be sustained
..it will happen one day
It was for boomers
One of my favourite interviews of yours yet! Truly brain-stretching. Love Scott Carney, what a guy!
Fascinating! Can we please have a part II.? This gentleman is so educated. And we know so little about this cultures/cults in India, Tibet etc. Please Andrew, I cannot wait! Thank you so much, both of you! XX
I’ll get him back on!
@@AndrewGold1 Awesome. Also, are you keeping tabs on the developments in Kenya with the followers of Pastor Paul Mackenzie, and the seeming surge in extreme Christian cults in Africa?
Really, where you been the last few decades?
@@thomasbarchen Can you please specify your question? My post was about the India Effect, the cults...not about the culture, mediation, religion itself. First read, than think, than write. Thank you.
Please get a real Tibetan Lama who can explain Buddhism, meditation, karma, how it could go wrong, or what goes wrong-- etc. It would clear up alot of misconceptions.
Lovely man, very interesting conversation, thank you!
I love the expressions on the Host's face of Surprise and Shock during this interview.
Excellent question to start with, Andrew! I know what meditation’s about but many people don’t, and that’s an important place to start! Fascinating interview and topics, as usual. You’re sharing a lot of key information with all your interviews, appreciate what you’re doing, and how you do it, so much. Color me a fan.
Aw thanks Lana!
@@AndrewGold1 Thank you! ♥️
Yes sadly people with psychosis are everywhere and need help. My friends wife had psychosis and just suicided despite having a normal life and doing normal wonderful things like playing music. We dont blame him or the music or what she was doing she simply had a mental illness.
Meditation is our natural state. And exactly like he said talking, walking, eating can be a meditation.
Silent retreat is a beautiful experience however it isnt recommended by people who already have a hard time sitting still and some mental health conditions are better supported by movement meditation or mindfulness in action.
Meditation is not a normal state, that's selling points of whole this scene, but it's cliche and at best misguided. It's as saying introverted ppl are more adjust to the world that extroverted and/ or other way around, plus meditation became umbrella term , same as new age, it's very dangerous to generalize it and then coming up with empty statement like- meditation is natural state - if it would be it- we would be in it, but we are born to be stimulated by outside world, and taking on challenges of this outside world, not to be be born in the meditation cell and experiencing your inner world until you die.... it's very wide subject and I wont go into it , but just please intelligent ppl out there- stop ( meditate if that help you) and think before you making public statement like this....
@@karolinaszczudlo9871 meditation and mindfulness arent even real, theyre just made up terms to describe an imaginary thing. It's weird that most people dont know this.
@@joejones9520 yes, well, good marketing and joggling with new speak goes long way doesn't it? Before all this "eastern mysticism invasion" life was so much easier - so called mindfulness was simply paying attention to what you're doing - is paying attention, so called meditation, one could compare to paying attention to what's going on inside your head or inside your body - without putting drama into it, repetition of mantras etc its just same as using rosary in Catholic tradition - autohypnosis, trans like state - I never liked it, cause it makes you more on autopilot,
We need to take Refuge in GOD'S WORD, exercise, stretch and join a group of studying his word. Play music sing dance. All the meditation and isolation is crazy.
It is my experience. It is not the natural state of the mind as the mind is always pulling us outward, this is why people become disturbed. Meditation is like exercise for the mind to settle so we can experiece the silent truth of what we are truly, some use words to call it peace, love God. The challenging thing is as you begin the mind can seem loud at first by contrast. Its like as you start cleaning your house the dirty parts look more dirty by contrast then before you cleaned. If you stop and focus there it csn make you crazy, you feel overwhelned. Its good to go slow. If we compare it to exercise for the body. When you first exercise your body hurts. It could be easy at first to blame exercise as being bad, or quit, or blame it as the cause of pain. But it is just because it is awakening the acid that build up in muscle, and at first it makes you sore. But as you get into a routine of it it slowly disappears and you become more healthy. But people go to extremes with exercise too amd seriously hurt themself. Some get obsessed and even take steriods. We dont blame exercise and start shaming people who exercise and boycotting it as hurting people. Using our intelligence we understand it isnt exercise thats the problem it is who and how the person is exercising that needs to be adjusted. There is no difference to this and meditation. It goes for most things, there are always people who take things to extremes or approach things in an imbalanced way and harm themselves. Even with simple things like food. Even some people misuse objects, ie some people eat toilet paper… most of us understand that it is an imbalance, it is an illness. We don’t blame the object the person in misusing, as most people know how to use such objects in a way they were intended and in a balanced helpful way. There will always be people no matter what is there who are prone to harming themself with otherwise benign things, it is a disease. In the mental hospital you can’t even keep objects like pens or anything someone could turn into a rope, even too many garments, because the intent of some of the people there, due to their mental state is to use anything around them as an object to harm themself. If we blamed and banned such objects the world would be sparse. Intelligence understands that a few people, or sometimes even any person can get into such a mental state, and they need treatment for a time. These people are in every facet of society including meditation retreats. Again lets use our intelligence to see that its a worldwide problem, rather than blaming their surroundings and what they are engaged in. And pray those in this state get the help they need🙏🏻
I have a friend who somehow has become a follower of a Hari Krishna type cult. She changed her name into an Indian name and has made trips to India. She posts photos of their activities on Facebook. It kind of worries me. I hope nothing bad happens to her, like in India by herself. She is not a really close friend, but is a super sweet person. I don't understand why she did this.
Some people need to find purpose. I hope she finds her way and is safe 🙏 you're a good friend for caring
Someone tried to recruit me to the Hare Krishnas today, just because I replied to their comment "Hare Krishna" "What happened to those guys? I used to see them in the city centre a lot, dinging their little hand cymbals and singing in their orange robes with their shaved heads, but I've not seen them for 20 years..."
I thought they'd done a disappearing act.
I hope your friend is okay. I guess some people get a bit lost in the modern world and are looking for something meaningful. Especially super sweet, sensitive people. I hope she doesn't end up being used or abused. My Indian friend tells me there are a lot of unscrupulous people looking for foreign wives out there 😕
she's basically dumb, sadly...
@@happydillpickle They're still out there. I've seen them handing out brochures at the mall in my old neighborhood twice out of the 5 or so times I've been there over the course of the past six years. They're not wearing the orange robes (not all of them at least, the most recent time there was one wearing it) but still chanting and recruiting. And they seem determined because it doesn't look like many people are stopping to speak with them but they keep at it.
It's the type of thing some people do when they're trying to figure out they're place in the world or going through an identity crisis. You aren't wrong to be at least a little worried. Just be honest with her about your concerns.
No responsible Buddhist meditation teacher would let a student do an extensive retreat unless student has trained before and is mentally stable has the right motivation. So don't blame meditation itself.
To an extent, I agree. There's something creepy about this guy, especially the way he harped on how the victim was his "favorite student" in light of the perversion he later admits is horribly common in these types of "teachers."
This was fascinating. A part 2 would be good
This waa a great interview, thank you!
Oh my goodness what an engaging guest
Could have listened for hours
Thank you
Well done!
In the early 00's, as teens, many of my friends fell into the obsession and romantisization of eastern spirituality through the drug scene (especially psychedelics) and a fixation on music and culture from the 1960's. We're all nerds & gamers, so those types of interests mapped well onto eastern spirituality. Some friends would use terms from videogames such as "magika and mana" and refer to themselves as wizards. One friend even named his daughter Artemis, after a character from the Bhagavad Gita. My sister's bf even tried to convince me that he could levetate through the power of meditation.
We used to camp in the forest once a year for a few days whenever the Rainbow Gathering would come to our area, and I remember there was a Tibetan monk traveling with them. After that, a few friends started conceptualizing themselves as monks and would walk around wearing robes. Even now, over a decade later, some friends continuously repost Osho quotes on their fb.
I think that, at least in the US, this kind of psychedelic culture and fixation on eastern spirituality has roots in a cointelpro op from the 60's with the goal to subvert existing progressive political movements at the time. It all feels very counterfeit to me. Nobody will ever achieve enlightenment through the use of psychedelics. They might open up your perception, but there's a reason why monks dedicate their whole life to this spiritual practice. You have to be firmly grounded in reality and willing to work & make sacrifices to achieve a real relationship with "god," the source, whatever you choose to call it.
Edited to fix spelling error. Accidentally referred to Osho as Osha hahaha
Artemis is the name of the ancient Greek goddess of hunt, wilderness and wild animals. Nothing to do with Bhagavad Gita.
Artemis is a goddess of ancient Greek mythology, not from the Bhagavad Gita with is a Hare Krishna tool of knowledge.
The Aghori of India would strongly disagree with this statement: "They might open up your perception, but there's a reason why monks dedicate their whole life to this spiritual practice. You have to be firmly grounded in reality and willing to work & make sacrifices to achieve a real relationship with "god," the source, whatever you choose to call it."
also Artemis is an Ancient Greek goddess, maybe read the the Bhagavad Gita before acting like you know about it?
@@janebaggott3510 the Bhagavad Gita is dated to the second half of the first millennium BCE, it existed long before the Hare Krishna movement did.
I almost did think it was OSHA for a few seconds.
I meditate daily and it is at the heart of my recovery from severe depression. However I would say meditation helps me to stay present and calmer but I can only describe it as a normal experience - there is nothing highly mystical about it. My teacher never made any if this weirdness. I do agree that I do come across people that have trouble understanding what it is because they try to understand it from a western perspective- ie get hung up on doing it right, buying all sorts of things you don’t need and can’t understand its not about a religion or god or afterlife - its hard for them to understand it’s not about doing it to get something, to get some sort of reward. i like the story about a Zen master who was asked what happens after death he replied “how should I know?” - the man replied because you are a zen master - he then replied “yes but I am not a dead Zen master”
An absolutely brilliant chat.. covered a lot of areas and the descriptions being articulately expressed..
I went to a trauma therapist for 12yrs to try and heal inner child wounds. Growing up in a narcissistic moms household did a # on me. Passive dad no help.
She tried every which way to help with meditation. Needless to say my brain quiet is scary. I can’t just sit and be. My inner critic is too loud. I can’t meditate nope
@P S thank you so much 😊 I will be sure to check it out. I am unable at this time to stop & do mindfulness. DBT therapy. My brain just responds.
It’s when I sit quietly does that “inner critic,” the one who wants to keep me stuck grows louder & louder to the point where she’s screaming.
That’s the part that wants to keep me stuck in the past. Thank u again for the recommendations
I'm the daughter of a narc mom and enabler father too. I feel for you so much
I went to a laughing meditation one time with a friend. It was so weird and awkward.
I've been to them too. I sort of liked it, actually.
@Scott Carney glad you enjoyed. Different steokes
A
I've been to a laughing meditation session like the one you attended. The teacher was unlikeable and awkward and formal, so that laughing became a chore, until the students started to find the idea that they had paid a heap of money for this miserable experience extremely funny, and soon we were roaring with genuine laughter.
I've also attended laughter yoga which was a wonderful experience.
Because it feels fake as..
Here in Norway, mindfullness meditation is used as a supplement within treatment of mental illness 😊
Its a good tool.
That’s a practical thing to use it for.
Mindfulless can increase depression and trigger psychosis in some cases including diagnosed bipolar.
@@hilaryswan4323 Everything has to be done with positivity.
We are energy beings. LOVE is our true essens.
@@yogiine People who suffer from mental illness can be too positive where rationality is lost and symptoms such as risk taking occur.
@@hilaryswan4323 im not working within that.. i just know mindfullness have been used..
By the way.. as I said. We are energy. ..
Positive thinking is the best way ❤
Meditation is part of my healing journey. I just sit down and listen to myself deep breathing. So I'm interested in this one. I had a friend who always wanted to do these guided meditations. Did it once and hated it. Totally ineffective to me, I felt loads of anxiety and fell asleep. Since there is a lot of money to be made in the spiritual and self-help industry, I am very cautious and I just really prefer to sit by myself with my own divine presence. No priest or guru required.
It helps so many people when done right. But like anything, can be culty
You have a divine presence?
"No priest or guru required"
This should be a general filter for all wanting to do meditation or religion. In this day and age you don't need to pay anyone to learn how to meditate or pray. We have easy access to know how. Just stick with traditional sources and avoid those who promise you heaven and earth.
@@matej7501 ohhh ....
Traditional sources go wry too. Did you catch the part of the interview when the (#th) Dalai Lama called in the Mongols to massacre a sect that was not to his liking? Or popes in the time of history when they had so much influence in politics, it was a political act to support one's power by putting the "right" person to the Vatican? (Like the house of Medici? Having lovers, children, corruption etc....) Being "traditional" doesn't save you from joining something unhealthy. Plenty of examples are there too.
Never look at an other human being as "god like". Not western, not eastern, not new age, not traditional. Everything that gets too big can go to the "person's head" by a bunch of followers telling them how exceptional they are. They get "high" on that and start to lose the grounding of their own processing of reality.
(If you Google "Diane Langberg, abuse of power in church" there are a lot of information how it works. It doesn't matter if it is eastern or western. We all are subjected to do same mistake. )
I suspect that somebody choosing to jump off a roof is entirely down to her personal tragedy, and not even necessarily related to her being at a meditation class. Basically she was damaged.... otherwise known as a loony.
My favourite saying ever goes something like, "The devil mostly doesn't come in a cape and horns, he comes as the thing you want the most."
Always be careful about you crave the deepest, there are always exploiters and abusers willing to give it to you.
I am so glad that I never got attracted by the Wim Hoff stuff. When I heard him talk about his wife dying and then he got into these ice baths the story creeped me out from the beginning. Guys like him are such a part of the bro cult in which people have to torture themselves and shame others to belong.
The thing you want the most, cravings, a severely unmet psychosocial need... the devil knows the right buttons to push
One of your most intelligent and eloquent guests you had on your channel
One of your most fascinating guest! Keep up the great interviews!
Beginning meditation can be painful for many people. It is misinformation to tell people they will feel better when learning meditation. Often there are many traumas that surface and that is important for people to know.
Right, and it's not the meditation to blame for it. It looks to me the guy instead of taking responsibility for mental state of his student, he claimed to be a meditation teacher in his early 20!!! What experience knowledge or insight did he have at such a young age to lead anyone in meditation? To support someone who might have a mental breakdown if too many things come up in intense meditation. Or when a student becomes delusional? Instead of admitting his role in the student's confused mental state that lead to a suicide he went on a crusade to blame ancient meditation traditions. What he says a out Tantra and preliminary practices proves he has no idea or experience in what he's talking about. Unbelievable.
I started studying this facet of sociology in college as a degree in 1975 and afterward began the fantasy story called the Book of Wibblry and WUB that depicts the story of cults, of religions, of cultures but tries to explain the idea of communication of our energy of soul through words, thoughts, things wii (all the "I"s of the world) create. The explanations crazy people give for what they can do but few others should even try for it is their perspective that makes them unique and at some point crazy. What is sanity and life but what wii leave behind based on the actions wii take, the things wii create, and the words wii use to communicate that. You have multiple languages, experiences, and thus developing wisdom in ways few can that gives you both special perspectives, the perspicuity it takes to remain sane amidst the many temptations to believe "I alone have the answer!" Thanks for the great show.
🇺🇸 This is an astonishing interview. I’ve known of incidents where the start seemed pure but went awry with the others not being able to even relate to the person. Such a fine line
Thanks Susan!
Love this conversation so much. Thank you!
For me , learning how to meditate wasn’t a rocket launch but a long and difficult process learning to keep my attention inside and in the here and now. I only started noticing results after many many months.
Meditation is not a destination but a journey. It’s not a religion either
I had a similar spiritual experience to the young lady that took her own life and it was due to someone drugging my drink at a party. The police ended up hand and foot cuffing me and took me to a mental hospital. They sedated me thinking I was having a psychotic episode. When the sedation wore off we pieced together what had happened. It was like a mushy trip but on speed maybe. I have never had acid or speed so just going by what other people told me. I also had what felt like convulsions and a trippy dude in the psych ward told me it was from rat poison! I was going through a spiritual evolution during the fit, I was an ant, then I would morph into a snake, then a dog etc until I reached the pinnacle, a gay guy that managed the resort I worked at. I thought I could drive a car without hands on the wheel! Nearly had an accident lucky it ran out of fuel and I didn't know what to do. Many other delusions. Funny now but not at the time. Also thought someone in the family had to die so I thought I better K myself so no-one else had to die. Lucky it passed to another delusion before I could act it out.
Damn! I hope you haven't had any other lasting effects and got all the follow-up to make sure you'd be OK! Also I hope you didn't get charged for anything and the perp got convicted instead!
@@nerysghemor5781 no I am all good now. I just added it to a very interesting experience. I did see a therapist for a year and a solicitor told me not to worry about the police as I had been drugged and that would be my defence. The police didn't continue with charging me. The perpetrator I have my suspicions but can't prove it. Hopefully after they saw what it did they felt guilty and never did it again. Thanks for caring 💗🇦🇺
The Dark Side of Meditation. Well, Andrew another topic I wasn't aware of before. Scott knows so much on this subject and the way he articulates this information, made my head spin. I remembered a question that someone asked me once: What is the one thing that every person on the planet is seeking, every second, untill death? PLEASURE. IE freedom from pain, loneliness, debt. The desire for food\water sex, love, ego gratification, bliss, Nirvana, full illumination, and anything else can think of. My take away on this subject is that there is something fundamentally missing with so many people that are using meditation to achieve sensory pleasure, but are skipping the preliminary lesson of the human species and that is to become the best person you can be through right action. What is needed are honest and wise teachers, but where in the world do you find them that haven't turned to, or won't turn to corruption?
Another fascinating interview Andrew. I really enjoyed this. I peeked in on Scott's channel. I plan on going back for a better look 🙂.
It was fun being here!
@@sgcarney
👍👍👍👍
Only through Jesus Christ our Saviour who died on the cross for our sins so that we can be born again. This is freedom.
@@karinvantubbergh3418 amen
That fundermental thing missing is Christ! I pray that all will find him and be at peace.
When you expect something from meditation, it’s not a meditation.
Wow. This has SO much to do with lori vallow and chad daybell. Lori spent quite a bit of time in Arizona. And mysticism and metaphysical practices have blended with mormonism in idaho to form these offshoot doomsday prepper groups. This is all just so interesting and has much wider implications than just within meditation.
What a great interview! You both touch on many topics closely related to people's core beliefs. Scott is very interesting and wonderful to listen to. Thanks.
I think a silent retreat would drive me bonkers 😂 Other than some mindfulness, which I can only do in short intervals (like a minute or less to calm down), I can’t sit somewhere and meditate. Hats off to people who can do that for even ten minutes!
I learnt to meditate in mid 90 ties. I was into studying, had a child, and my partner and i split up. It all was very sad and it was very stressful.
Without dayly meditation (with calming music) i dont think i'd be here to day.
❤🙏
I’d 💯 be kicked out of a silent retreat😂
I would love to try a silent retreat, maybe for 3 days or so. I might jump up and run out babbling after 1 day, though 😅
@@Yooperskepticz i find these comments strange.. i did meditate every day for years.. it made me calm, healthy and able to overcome challenges.
Now i meditate off and on when I feel i need more peace, energy and balance. Back to the heart space ❤
You're obviously a dude (like me) so try this : put a white A4 (printer) paper in front of you with something dark the size of a big coin (or a coin) at the center,turn on a strong table lamp light on it,look at the coin for about 4 minutes (you can use timer),than close your eyes and keep them closed until the bright spot (which was coin) in your closed eyes dissapears. It will change your brain waves whether you like it or not. It might be difficult to keep your eyes focused at the "coin",your eyes might wander but it'll work. It feels great afterwards and it takes only 6-7 minutes. It's not "a philosophy",I call it instant meditation - a tool to train the brain like exercise is for muscles.
P.S. I hate everything "New Age" and pretencious doucheb*gs.
And 90% of people falling for this BS are women. We fall for women.
My mom was jumping from one scammy new age cult to the next so I've been never tempted to have anything to do with this, thank god. All they did was take her money and feed her narcissism.
That'll be right.
Christian meditation is quite different. See Interior Castle by St. Theresa of Avila. The point is becoming closer to God, not being focused on self.
Christianity is toxic and there’s no way you can convince me otherwise. History proves Christianity makes people do things for their god including war. The world would be better without your religion.
But first study the Bible as without The Word of God, most importantly The Gospels, you wouldn't know how to recognize God from The Devil. Which is what a Christian is taught about on how to do it. Jesus Christ saved me from the darkness and he is My Lord and Savior!
@On the Edge with Andrew Gold, I see Scott has a book behind him called “the wedge” however often all you can see is the edge. Subliminal advertising? 😂
Haha yeah I noticed that too!
@Tyrone Chadwick 🤣🤣🤣 what are you like!
@Tyrone Chadwick 🤣
I was just reading a lecture over breakfast by Swami Vivekananda called "Bhakti Yoga" (from Vol. 9 of the Complete Vivekananda book set). In it he writes there's fanatics who are deep in their spirituality, really hardcore, have a relationship with god, but they see the world through a very small hole that does no good for others nor themselves. The other group is very shallow, touching this and that and going here and there, and skipping over everything, which means they have no relationship with god, which does no good for themselves, nor others. Swamiji then says the best route is to find the middle ground. That was 1895 ...... we didn't listen.
Q))
When I was in my early twenties, I knew a young man who was extremely intelligent. He was a really sweet person as well. One day he disappeared from our social group. I found out he was in a nearby mental hospital. He had delved into a very deep meditation regimen, and he literally became lost in his own mind. He was unreachable. He was in there for years. Last I know he was still there. I hope he came out of it. He was a good guy.
Anyone else getting 'main character' syndrome from Scott? As in, I know /he's/ being interviewed, this is /his/ story, /his/ perspectives that are being explored... However, he exclusively discussed Emily's death as though it were a plot device in his life's story.
It's my understanding that Meditation is "a singular focus of something in that moment" shutting out all distractions . Some people would say being introspective while taking a walk is a Form of meditation others will tell you reading poetry or psalms and considering it's mean is a form of meditation .
I think any form of introspection that yields positive results is also meditation
Thank you Andrew. I’m really looking forward to your book 📚 and thank you Scott
Hello Andrew, you might want to look into vitamin deficiencies for the mouth ulcers... Love your show by the way, always a pleasure to watch you, such an attentive, insightful and empathetic interviewer, a beautiful person inside out.
ua-cam.com/video/wqMiwdMRXy4/v-deo.html
Sporebiotics will heal your mouth ulcers.
Multi B vitamins, Vitamin C, zinc and protein.
I had to remove a certain food from my diet to get the mouth sores to go away. 👍
This was my solution to canker sores FWIW ua-cam.com/video/PUREL5ikDXI/v-deo.html
Super-enjoyed this Interview!
Thanks you!!
Went to a WhimHof retreat recently.
They heavily pressed on the fact to NOT do the breathing before swimming. And it also says so eveywhere on his App....so..🙏.hopefully no more drowning accidents!!
that explanation of how Tibetan Buddhism developed at the end was worth the wait. literal fantasy novels.
Thank you Andrew for your most exquisite interview this morning.
46:00 "then we look for that and find our imagination" such a good quote
Fascinating and really well presented. Re: the zeal of the convert, my mother, who was a smoker, often said that ex-smokers were like born-again Christians.
Wow! What an interesting interview! I use meditation and biofeedback for pain management (with Percocet I'm not stupid!) . I was born with a chronic illness and my folks tried ANYTHING to improve my life, and I think this guy probably has some fascinating stories! Have him back sometime Andrew! Well done mate! Love your content! 💜✌️
Yes. I've been meditating for many years and attend a fairly local Theravada Buddhist monastery, which is the most peaceful and beautiful place I've ever been - truly another world. I was also a member of a Gurdjieff group, and there are definitely similarities in the philosophy and the practice with Buddhism. Eckhart Tolle is also an extraordinary person, and much of what he speaks about I can relate it to Mr Gurdjieff. Only found your podcast site recently, via Shaun Attwood, and am really enjoying your very chilled-out approach, and the way you let your guests speak without constantly interrupting them like so many other hosts do. With Metta 🙏
I find Eckhart Tolle overated and one -2 liners overated simplistic sorry...
Should add I study different branches of Buddhism in my own time for last 30 years to give myself peace and life lessons everything from Tao poetry from Dr Dwyer Buddhist principles explained for myself to be a better person and evolve...I don't know why I'm not keen on Eckhart I don't have a good reason...just my opinion
I’m exhausted after listening to this guy😳
He talks a lot and yet says nothing.
I think Yoga and studying Buddhism does promote a healthy lifestyle but everything has a balance ♎ you can't make Anything your whole life whether it's relationships, children or Religion 💜 Anyway I truly enjoy watching your videos - thank you 😌
So weird that silent retreat is your topic this week as i just went for the first time in Fribourg, Switzerland. I had the most enjoyable time! Felt like i had found the secret to happiness or something... ❤ Sorry, the guest speaker 1. Did not express what i know to be meditation; 2. Does not have the vibe of a meditator. Quite unsettling imo.
My heart goes out to you, your group, her friends and family. ❤
This is gold. Bravo.
This almost happened to me! Im fortunated to have had the right conditions to not be sucked into it.
Buddhism teaches the end of suffering is the end of desires.... looks like all these cases are folks who lost this message entirely...chasing their desire for grandeur in occult supernatural achievement. Where I have studied, it was instructed to us that even if we acquired some supernatural abilities, we had to keep them secret and not show them off or think we have reached enlightenment, because puffing up the ego either with peer praise or our own feelings of superiority is the actual impediment to Nirvana.. the only time to use these abilities is either to save/heal ones life or the life of others
I was just talking about the Theosophical Society today. I went to college in San Diego, Point Loma Nazarene, that once was the home to the only successful Theosophical Society commune in the US. Some of the original buildings are still there. I remember learning some crazy stories during my time at school.
Yes, ive meditated every day for years, best time of the day. I call it 'me time' afterwards nothing matters, you realise everything is as it is. Loved this interview, thanks Andrew❤
It is all fine until you live in the west where other people before you worked and sacrificed for having a society with basic human rights and other standards that makes your life easy. Go live in a place where you have 5-6-7 children, no healthcare, not enough food but working all day, hard labor to keep some food on your table and have a roof over your family's head and then "is as it is" a totally different experience. You don't even know what you have, that you have because others before you fought for it. Others who were not ok with "as is".
@@tahwsisiht I'm 71 years old, four children three grandchildren, I grew up in poverty conditions and know what it's like to scrimp and scrape to make ends meet .. meditation is what kept me sane during those hard times.
Time can be like money, some people can spend it wisely others just waste it watching shit TV. Playing games. Do you watch shit TV, play games, spend time on your phone? Don't knock it till you've tried it. It's not for everyone maybe it's not for you.
It's also good to respect other people's views and not speak harshly of those you do not know. ❤️
@@jeanthornton2107 I just saw your reply right now. I will address it as soon as I am off from work. Because I take responsibility for myself, I like to make sure my work is as I am: reliable.
I "see you later" to clear your question about me, my views and my "rude", "insensitive" reply.
@@jeanthornton2107 The name Jean can be given to a male or a female. In the US, it is more likely female name. Ms. Jean. I am passionate about democracy, being well informed and aware of psychology. Awareness of cults, brainwashing and to understand how everyone can be brainwashed, even well educated people. To understand that if you don't use your own mind, you are giving away your most important power: your chance to survive and your ability to make sense of your world. I think telling people that the best thing they can do is to tune out is the worse idea that one can give at a time when the future depends on actions humanity is making right now. If you are 71, you were born around 1952. You think your generation wasn't brainwashed because you had no phone? Your generation was even more brainwashed because it was harder to get the truth out. Information was in a hand of corporations and to have a platform in the media was limited to very few people. Your generation was told that smoking is ok. That is even safe for pregnant women. Oil companies did research about global warming and in the 1970ies, they have been having the data that burning fossil fuel in this rate will have many negative effects. Many in your generation still unable to understand that global warming is real. There were countless wars and the narrative was always twisted to justify it for the public. There will be always people who will try to push their agenda based on their interest. The more power they have, the more damage they can inflect on the rest of the society. Power corrupts. Being aware of it, to learn that criticism, questioning what you have been told and what you have been believing is the only way to protect yourself and your family.
If you were born in 1952, you have been started to have children in the middle of the 1970ies. So you had 4 children and you were having a daily meditation practice for years. If you look up how much parents have to work to support their 4 children you learn that one parents income is not enough and often having multiple jobs are not enough. I am glad that after taking care of your 4 children and the house all day you could squeeze in time for meditation, but to think that after all day working, coming home to 4 children AND to find time to meditate on top of that what is something reasonable is delusional. Not because of the phone, but because a day is 24 hours. Try to make some math how much time you have left after work to actually being with your children, not having a "me time" but having a nurturing family time when your children feel connected, seen and loved. It is not "time management", it is math.
Meditation itself never prevented people from wars or ill intentions. Meditation can be highjacked and used to control people. Don't believe in image. Don't be impressed by "mega" things. I believe in sacred relationships between people. Between partners (couples of the same sex or heterosexual), between friends, between parents and their children etc. But I don't believe that you have to go and listen to someone on a platform and to mystify it. Better to scratch "sacred" and call it healthy because it is nurturing and there are care for each other, intention to respect and not to exploit. It happens in private and don't follow a guru for it. I vote for psychologist, not a guru that you attached attributes what he mimicks so you can feel satisfied and hooked.
@@tahwsisiht don't bother
A sad thing about Wim Hof is that very likely the e-mail didn't come from him, but from his son. Wim Hof's son owns the brandname Wim Hof.
ANYTHING can be made into a cult. Meditation heals me.
Yes
This was fascinating, thank you both.
🙏🏻