Chloe could literally just be throwing plastic on the ground, but she will still get more hate than the guy who would use his power to erase humanity and leave only the sentimonsters alive.
Chloe's supposed redemption was a red herring. She was never on a path to be redeemed; it only kinda looked like she was. Chloe's only motivation was to look good. Helping Ladybug helped her in that ambition - she was Queen Bee in order to gain the adoration of the public. It made her feel like she was better than everyone else. As soon as, in her estimation, she could do better on her own, she betrayed Ladybug. The lesson she never learned was that being a hero isn't about looking good - it's about helping others. The best heroes do so out of the public spotlight. Part of why Marinette is so against revealing identities is because she doesn't want the accolades of being Ladybug. She just wants to help people
@@RonyChatterwhat you said is not wrong nor entirely true. Her first reason was indeed to look good but why would she want to, as she already seems to have what most wants? A slave dad, a subordinate, money, beauty, you name it. It was obviously to get her mother's attention, she was neglected by her mom and her dad, never had time to educate her and just gave her what she wanted thus leading to her behavior. "Making her feel she's above others" isn't quite right because she already felt like that even before she got the miraculous. It was literally mentioned so many times that it was for her mother's recognition, a mother who barely remembers her name, that is. Furthermore, I believe the 'betrayal' you're referring too was not fully understood either, if I remember right, each time she 'estimated being better off w/o ladybug' it was when she was being angry or smth, never did she say, in a composed mind that she would have been a better hero w/o ladybug. Then, let's not forget that Chloe, contrary to other heroes was not a good person to begin with, so her understanding would take more time and patience. As the episodes passed we could see that she was becoming more humane and was doing her best to help in some situations. Finally, Marinette herself is not the best example of a superhero either. Nb: this is but my humble thoughts, hopefully it doesn't trigger anyone. Have a good day/night and praise God ❤
@-_brwne_-340 true but according to some people the original writer didn't intend fir her to be redeemed so he scrapped the idea as it happened on his break
Gabriel got redeemed?! GABRIEL?! He has threatened COUNTLESS lives for 2 pieces of jewelry. He has beaten CHILDREN, thrown his son ACROSS PARIS, doesn’t care about his son’s happiness, ruined his sons love life, caused the destruction of the moon, abused his kwami, neglects his son, only thinks of himself, akumatized A BABY, ruined trips for his son, etc etc. Like how in the WORLD does a man who is pushing 50 and fights 14 YEAR OLDS get a redemption?! He is willing to DESTROY THE WORLD because he can’t get over his dead wife. Then he as audacity to say it’s for Adrien. What a joke.
I hate to say this but I saw this happening in S2 That's when I realized that this is a show aim for young children And would most likely turn all the villains good except for the one that bullies people 🥲 But realistically Gabriel would be in prison rn 😂 For children abuse, Terrorism, harassment, Power abuse, Stealing/Kidnapping, vandalism, Etc!
Ii don't know if I'm reaching but- What I noticed is all the major male antagonists (Gabe, Andre, Felix) get redeemed while the female ones aren't (Chloe n Lila). Ii just think it's weird how two teen girls are way worse than two grown man n a teen who committed far more morale atrocities than those girls ever did. Feels like a bad messagee to send to children esp growing girls..
The man spoiled his daughter for years, was absent, never corrected her behavior and never comforted her when she was sad. But he is a good father to Zoe on the first day, even though she is not his real daughter
14 year old bully is somehow irredeemable but a FULL GROWN MATURE ADULT WHO ENABLES HER (also keep in mind that he’s the one raising her, her mother is literally a deadbeat so her dad is the most at fault for how she turned out) and is incredibly corrupt and awful somehow gets away scot-free (however you spell it). “W-w-w-w-well his wife is mean and his daughter is a brat! 🥺” send that man to jail rn. Also Marinettes “trauma” is the worst thing ever OMG “…next time i like a guy i’m gonna stalk him and commit multiple crimes because i have trust issues…! 🥺😢😞” BE NORMAL
The fact Felix committed Genocide and only stopped when he accidentally killed one extra person and is still redeemed but Chloe can't be redeemed after stealing miraculous (something Felix also did) pisses me off.
spoilers! season 6!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😢😢😢😢🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Like have been doing well with your family? I just want to let her guys? chloe plane crash full episode! I just want to know if you guys want to know that I have to be therefore your family?😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😨😨😨😨😭😭😭😭😭😭😤😤😤😭😭😭😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 please please let! I just want 443 million things and I’ll be doing that 😢😢😢 and I’m not going on the road now and 345 Argo’s And you want me too to get your happy 😢 ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤! I Just Want to make you happy and I like!
Derision isn’t canon to me. It came way too late. And tried to say Marinette’s stalking was a trauma response?! What a load of horse shit! I refuse to believe that!
Thank you!! There are people who trash talk this series especially marinette but when derision comes out, people are all like “omg poor marinette. Chloe is a monster. This explains so much”, NO IT DOESN’T!!!! It doesn’t justify her actions, hell, it doesn’t even explain her actions. Ptsd doesn’t turn people psycho. That’s an insult to people who truly struggle from PTSD. Even if Mari-Sue does have “trauma”, that’s still not her main motivation. Her main motivation is obsession and possession. If it is ptsd, avoidance and trust issues would be the explanation. I’m not a writer, but if you see movies where anxiety and ptsd is done well, you kind of get it. And you don’t ever use ptsd and anxiety as an explanation for psychotic behavior. Psychotic people, bad people, can just so happen to have ptsd. Even if people sympathize with her character, it is still irresponsible of them to cut her some slack. A criminal is a criminal. They should still slap on the handcuffs and take her straight to juvy. She needs to suffer the consequences of her crimes teenager or not. She is old enough to understand what she’s doing. Show less They reverted Chloe's redemtion arc just so Marinnette wasn't the worst character and then deleted Chloe because they made her a second Liela, replacing her with a lesbian half sister just so someone takes the bee miraculous place. Then proceeded to make a silly PTSD flashback to excuse the creator's creepy obsessive idea of love, but it didn't help to cover up the fact Marinnette is a yandere mary sue. Trauma might explain behavior but not excuse it.
@rhishere2265 ikr! i get that it made her sad but u do NOT have to stalk people in order to know them, marinette isnt “badass” or “cool” shes a stalker and apparently cant have any flaws on her. adrien shouldve been the main main character instead of marinette period.
@@courtsgf Right and Adrien barley get sences that he's him and not just Ladybug's partner boy didn't even know about master fuu most of the seasons and still has no powerups
@rhishere2265 it wouldve made more fun if adrien was the guardian, also adrien hasnt told not one person his identity yet, after all hes been through. thats some willpower i respect him
People are deadass forgetting he willingly sabotaged Adrien's life just to akumatize three of his friends and put him in a bad light for no reason And mind you They were after Adrien You know *THE SON OF THE DUDE WHO AKUMATIZED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!?!??!?!*
And let's not forget that he tried to S.A ladybug by trying to make a move on her(whist impersonating Adrien)even though she said no 2-4 times to him and she literally had to punch him off her cuz he kept advancing DESPITE her pleas truly sickening 🤮
While Felix does need to apologize to Marinette. He never has to apologize for one thing. And that’s deleting her love confession video. On the day of Adrien’s mother’s supposed death. And let me make this clear. You never. Never, EVER! Send a confession of love on the day a child or adult is mourning a parent! It’s an icky thing to do! And not romantic at all! That’s the one thing Felix never has to apologize for. He did the right thing there.
Thomas really loves playing favorites with his characters, and he loves to torment his scapegoats/black sheep of the group. None of the miraculous holders got a miraculous because Ladybug saw potential in them. They only got a miraculous because Ladybug liked them. She would not care in the slightest if one of her favorites sucked at fighting. Because this show has to be all about it her; the world has to always revolve around her, no matter what. And everyone is is forced to accept that. Thomas even had the sheer flipping audacity to go out of his way to say that Chloe was never an abuse victim, despite it clearly showing otherwise (hence why "show, don't tell" is extremely important), which invalidates other abuse survivors who find Chloe to be relatable and implies something much darker in store for her come "Revolution". It's extremely sick and twisted.
Y'know I never even thought about that until you mentioned it ✋😭 but you're right! Especially considering he has traits that she would try to get Adrien to have- Felix pretty much does things his way while Adrien does what he's told whether he likes it or not- she complained about it constantly That whole situation is messy 😭
Okay, kind of off topic but I always found it very weird that Adrien and Chloe's friendship was so superficial in the show considering that for a long time, they were each other's only friends and when Adrien ended their friendship so easly, it kind of hurt because Chloe had no one by her side anymore. The amount of potential all these characters and their relationships had (not necessarily romantic) was just thrown out of the window just because Thomas Astruc refuses to grow up 😢
Don't know why Thomas is so obssesed with keeping Chloe down. Took away Sabrina, Adrien and her crime is what exactly? Gabriel, Felix, Natalie all did way worse than Chloe and they get sympathy. Gabriel literally locked up his own son and was going to force him to marry Kagami. Chloe didn't do anything that other akumatised victims didn't do. Then in s4 its like Thomas tried to up Chloe's bad traits so everyone hates her. In Queen Banana Plagg of all people says Vesperia is so mucn better than Queen Bee. That felt so shoehorned in.
Also, what breaks my heart is that Chloe was getting her redemption arc but then got her heart broken by ladybug. After she basically refused to trust her again. And I was literary so upset that they made someone else other than Chloe the Bee holder. And honestly Chloe biggest dream was to become a hero so that none would think she's useless and that is one of the most realistic feelings in the show. And out of nowhere they just neglect her and ruin her character 😢 I also just felt like Chloe added some personality to the main squad and when they took that out, the squad felt blain like they literally were all the same character with the same personality. (✨🌸Reminder this is just my opinion 🌸✨) Feel free to reply your opinions here as well 😊
@@margeryojije7862 What does wanting a fictional bully to be redeemed say anything about how a person feels about bullies in real life? It's fiction - the point of it is that it isn't real. And before you say anything: Sure, it affects reality, but not as much as you think. Like, playing games based on war doesn't make you want to go out and actually fight and start full-on riots, does it?
Another issue with the whole “Chloe traumatizing Marinette thing” is that it supposedly happened before season one happened. However, during the event, Chloe acts more like how she did in seasons four and five
@@margeryojije7862you can become a better person but still not be forgiven, They were setting Chloe up for a redemption arc until Thomas robbed us of it.. It would've been a good plot to have her redeemed.
I like Felix, but I do feel like they shouldn't have forgiven him so easily. He did basically commit genocide and gave all of the miraculous to Gabriel. He also didn't apologize like you said. I'm not a fan of Chloe, but I don't hate her. It would've made sense if she got a redemption arc. They just turned her into the villain when she could've been like some kind of anti-hero. She could still be her spoiled self and save people. Gabriel's redemption arc was just him switching up in the end... like what? Then Natalie... I don't really know about her. I haven't watched the show in a while. I do like her though because she started looking out for Adrien and before that she was smart and helped Gabriel with his plans. I don't like Lila because all of the characters have to look so dumb around her. I agree that she's probably not going to have a redemption arc, though.
Natalie switched up because gabriel chose to go after ladybug and cat noir instead of saving her and his wife in season 5 she didnt switch up in season 4 😭
I think Jeramy Zag wanted to give Chloe the redemption, but Thomas with his hatred to Chloe said no. So most likely Zag and some people on the team wanted to give and plan out her Redemption, but it was scrapped due to Thomas. And no matter what happens, Chloe is still a favorite than the actual main character( I think I don’t know)
I’m fine with Lila not getting a redemption arc I just don’t get why Chloe’s one was lost… the episode derision makes 0 sense and obviously the creators knew people found Marinette’s stalking a little odd so they made an excuse and blamed it all on Kim and Chloe.
I'd say the show gets bad after Miraculer (the episode where Chloe rejects the Akuma) because every episode after that throws away any Chloe development
This is so true! Like didn't Felix try to kiss ladybug against her will? Like she literally had to punch him so he would stop. But like a 14 year old bully can't?! Lile wtf
So Felix literally tried to S.A.(S*xually As*ult) Ladybug and yet chole is STILL called a monster??? I'm starting to loose respect for Tomas astruct......💀💀
i lost my respect for thomas astruc in that episode with his self insert because it was super cringe and ever since i've been just hating this man more and more
When Chloe became queen bee I was oh this will help be a better person she loves ladybug hates hawk moth/shadow moth and she is a super hero now so it will help her which it did for a while but then we took a one 80 and I was like no we were so close and now she hates ladybug and likes shadow moth/monarch??? Wait a minute hates ladybug loves monarch demonic wants to destroy others life’s they turned her into Lila the only thing they don’t have in common is that Lila lies to get here way and Chloe is just rude but it’s like they are the same person also are going to see Chloe in season 6 or is she just out of the story
@@margeryojije7862 I wouldn't care if chloe wasn't redeemed if felix wasn't. Chloe is far more forgivable than felix, and he gets redeemed. I'm not saying that chloe deserves a redemption, im just saying of she didn't get one then felix shouldn't either. The writting for miraculous is bad period.
It’s so weird how Marinette is keeping Hawkmoths identity a secret for Adrien it’s crazyyy. Gabriel neglected his child and is lowkey insane. And I hate how they made Marinette depressed because of her miraculous responsibilities. I think season 4 and 5 could’ve been carried out a lot more efficiently, I literally had to watch the last two episodes like 5 times to understand them. Luckily Season 6 is getting a new writer.
I still can't believe that Gabriel got reddemed. A literal terrorist who almost let his son die to see if he was Chat Noir, akumatized little kids, akumatized a villain and gave him a miraculous that almost caused a nucular war, akumatized his son twice, destroyed the world twice and forcing his son to be with someone even if he has a girlfriend. Yet Chloé, a girl who's abused by her mom and want real affection, who tried to be better, who literally have main character energy. She is irredeemable? Oh right I forgot. Thomas hate Chloe's guts because he's a man child who can't stand people loving someone who isn't Marinette. As you said. Lila was right there! Fuck Thomas Asstruck.
I didn't want to see any more new episodes of the show after Adrien officially unfriended Chloe at the end of the 1st half of Season 5, after they had her say these words to him that were somewhat out of character! He spent the 1st 3 seasons defending her when she needed defense, but then he changes his mind & gives up on her, too? That ruined the show for me! In fact, I noticed! Chloe would always be blamed for all of the trouble that Hawkmoth caused! He uses her as his favorite pawn & then somehow, she always becomes the scapegoat that the heroes point their fingers at! Those fingers should be pointing at Hawkmoth, not Chloe! At the end of Season 5, he's remembered as a hero when he clearly wasn't, while Chloe gets a dishonorable departure! What an injustice! I also noticed that starting with the lousy Season 3 Finale, they would have Chloe get angry about something & let her continue her temper tantrums for the rest of the episode instead of giving her the closure that she needs! I've been waiting for Chloe to get the closure that she needs about the Season 3 Finale; the show is in its 5th season but she still didn't get that closure because the superheroes never let Chloe know that they saved her parents for her when Hawkmoth disregarded their lives! She wanted to be Queen Bee again in the 1st place so she could save her parents, but she didn't have the Bee Miraculous because Ladybug hypocritically took it back from her! Hawkmoth manipulated Chloe as usual since he got the opportunity & then it was great big mess of nonsense afterwards! And poor Chloe keeps getting more undeserved vilification instead of the closure that she needs! It's bad storywriting to vilify a character that doesn't deserve vilification! I got tired of the bad storywriting & switched over to Jeremy Zag's movie & I'm glad that I did that! The characters are written much better in the movie, including Hawkmoth! He discovers that Cat Noir is his own son Adrien & then quits villainy. Zag's movie excluded all of the complicated stuff that made the show less sensible! And finally, I disagree with Thomas Astruc's statement about Chloe. She's redeemable; it's just that Astruc & his storywriting crew decided NOT to redeem her! The show was better when Chloe valued Ladybug & Adrien as her role models. However, they stopped being good role models for her. They taught her how to be nice, but they didn't teach her how to be kind. (There's a difference.) They would've succeeded in redeeming Chloe if they taught her kindness & what it means to be a hero; in fact, they should've kept reminding her that she can still be a heroine without superpowers! She helped the superheroes without superpowers in the episode entitled: "Despair Bear" & that was before she found the Bee Miraculous! The way I see how the 3rd season ended, Ladybug rescinded Chloe's source of superpowers for a stupid reason, without giving her a full explanation about the situation! And that's a hypocritical thing to do! Despite the idiotic identity issue, Alya found a way to get Hawkmoth off her back after he discovered that she's the holder of the Fox Miraculous! She simply used its superpowers of illusion to fool Hawkmoth! Theoretically, Chloe could find a way to defend herself & her family if she still has the Bee Miraculous, her source of superpowers! It was unfair that Ladybug's other comrades still got their talismans back after Hawkmoth discovered their identities, while poor Chloe gets the cold shoulder! See how Chloe's character potential was wasted? That's bad storywriting, too, to waste character potential! The idiotic identity issue wasn't the only reason why the Bee Miraculous was rescinded from Chloe! It was also because Marinette/Ladybug just didn't like her, since Chloe's a reputed school bully that upsets Marinette with her remarks sometimes. At least Chloe loved Ladybug - Marinette's alter ego. However, she didn't know that Ladybug is Marinette; but Marinette still could have stayed in character & be a worthy role model for Chloe. That's how Ladybug/Marinette could have eventually redeemed Chloe. Anyway, you reap what you sow & hypocrisy has bad consequences. Ultimately, what makes me feel better about the bad storywriting of the show is that the movie ended the way the show should have ended, so the movie was worth watching.
Exactly I wouldn't say I don't like felix x kagami a bit, but it really just felt like a convenient way of making sure Kagami doesn't get involved in Adrienette anymore in a way to say "look now we gave her someone better who just so happens to look like him now she's happy everyone's happy"
Chloe deserves another chance to do good in future seasons as Queen Bee. We need to convince Jeremy Zag to take over from thomas astruc to fix and change Chloe Bourgeois' redemption!
Haven’t watched the video yet but I’ll never got over the fact that a 14 year old girl who’s parents don’t gaf about her was deemed completely irredeemable but we watch marinette knowingly offer a second chance not only to her boyfriends abuser but a literal terrorist that has made her, her partner, and all of Paris’s lives hell for years. I hate season five so much.
exactly, how does a grown old man who is a literal terrorist get forgiven that easily?? chloe's still a teenager and she's made questionable decisions but her brain isn't even developed? she can grow, but gabriel just gets it immediately? okay then.
Marinette’s backstory should have happen in season 3 when her stalking was high level. Better backstory: Marinette once had a crush on someone and dated but then this person dumped her for someone who “isn’t clumsy” and that’s why she believes that no one would have her because she’s a klutz.
Unlike Felix and so forth, Chloe definitely deserves a redemption arc. I know Felix supposedly "helped" and so forth, but he was the reason Gabriel got a hold of all the Miraculous in exchange for the Peacock, which just made everything worse compared to when Chloe had Master Fu's Miraculous box. She used the Miraculous and exposed the few holders they had yeah, but that's equally not as bad compared to Felix. I have never liked it and I never will that they just threw away Chloe's redemption arc just because the creator didn't like her. She was genuinely becoming a good person and the way they had Ladybug keep her in the dark like that was even worse, she could have just told Chloe that she wanted to keep her safe from Hawk Moth instead of just ignoring that she exists. She could have been a reliable and good friend if Ladybug was honest and didn't avoid her. It's one of the biggest things that bothers me about MLB tbh. And to just bring in Zoe as a permanent placeholder for Chloe is wild. They could have made her a better person, but instead they just threw it that effort away just to replace her with someone who comes out of nowhere who is supposedly related to her, with a similar name, a somewhat similar look and just a nicer personality. That doesn't make her a good character, that just feels lazy. I'm sorry if this bothers anyone or seems like too much, I tend to get too into what I'm writing. I don't hate Zoe though, just wish they could have done better for Chloe.
I 100% agree Out of the blue a character called Zoe just popped up, especially after Chloe lost faith in ladybug. The fact they did that is just messed up! Ladybug or Mari could've been a true hero and stop treating Chloe as the worst person in the world and actually help her instead of neglecting her I mean she is supposed to be the hero it's her job to save everyone. I know everyone has their flaws but instead of showing Mari's flaws they just decide to cover it up by replacing Chloe with a person Marinette gets along with smoothly. And honestly Chloe's biggest dream was to become a hero so that none would think she's useless and that is one of the most realistic feelings in the show. And she was also one of the main hero group characters that stood out for actually having some sort of different personality And I really enjoyed it And ashamed that they changed it and completely ruined a perfectly good character
Yeah I seriously don't hate Zoe but they should have just kept Chloe's redemption arc instead of introducing a whole new character that comes out of nowhere😭 And they gave Felix a redemption arc after what he's done?(Giving hawkmoth the miraculous, assaulting ladybug, being evil so Adrien could be free or something) I honestly really liked Chloe's redemption, she was a really good character when she was starting to be nicer and sided with ladyug! I miss the days where she was ladybugs fan and wanted to be a hero! But instead they just abondond it and made Zoe(who again, I don't hate) for what reason????
Chloe honestly didn't deserve it, she has done the least harm compared to Felix, Nathalie and so forth. I SOMEWHAT get redeeming Gabriel so he'd die with his wife, but it doesn't excuse the fact both he and Nathalie literally had beaten up kids, and unintentionally, his own son. All Chloe did was give the main character a fear of heights, or Kim's pranks, been a while since I watched the episode. But she's a teenage girl, just like Marinette she makes mistakes, especially with how her parents had treated her growing up. How can you give Alya a second chance after she refuses the akuma and not Chloe, who also refuses the akuma at one point?
@@aqua_firebird1700 Yeah! I used to really like her when she was starting to be nicer but they just threw it aside for no reason? And then they gave Felix and Nathalie redemption when they literally did more terrible things???(I don't actually hate Nathalie btw but her redemption really doesn't make sense)The writers seriously need to know how redemption works😭 Chloe was actually redeemable but no, they made her the bad guy again. They made episodes making Chloe look bad and made the episode of Marinette's trauma so she could have an excuse for stalking and to make Chloe hateable. And then they gave redemption to a guy who gave Gabriel the miraculous, assaulted ladybug, and did many other selfish things and didn't even have a chance to redeem. I'm pretty sure he didn't even apologize and just became Kagami's love interest to make him look "trustable" and people just forgave him. When we were introduced to him, he already looked evil and didn't even look like he was doing it for Adrien💀 They prob just changed his reason to make him more "likable". BUT FIRST, THEY HAD TO MAKE A PERSON WE DONT EVEN KNOW TO BE HER REPLACEMENT(I actually like Zoe tho but it still doesn't make sense)
I feel like the reason why Lila and Chloe are always attacking marinette is a good thing because think of it like this Lila said in that bathroom scene when her and marinnette met she’d never let her near Adrian and Chloe would basically stay in her way of getting to Adrian like in the beginning how she pushed marinette what if they do it because they know mari is a stalker and will do anything to see him so they bully her to keep her away from him to protect him from her
In my opinion, I think anyone can get a redemption, even Gabriel. The problem is with how you execute it. For a character to have a good redemption arc, they need to work for it and actually put in the effort. A good example would probably be Zuko from ATLA, since he helps the Gaang defeat Ozai and took a lot of effort. Gabriel didn't really put in any effort for his redemption. All he did was make the wish to do something (not exactly sure what the wish is tho) and died. He didn't make up for all of the terrorism he did. Felix did help Marinette realize that Gabriel was Monarch (kinda? she didn't remember it afterwards) and helped keep Kagami safe, but didn't make up for the SA he did and giving Monarch all the miraculous. Nathalie's redemption arc, in my opinion, is a bit better. She does end up helping Mari in the end by telling her to detransform and all, but I do agree that her all of a sudden doing everything for Adrien and Emilie is kinda BS. Chloe's redemption is probably one of the better ones. She works hard to try and help Ladybug and to be kind to others (I think).
I mean..the whole fact that they thought it was a good idea to make Gabriel be good at the end (kind of?) despite the fact that this dude literally would destroy everyone and his son just for his stupid wife who clearly didnt wanted that and make Chloe the bad cause "WAAAAAA SHE REMINDS ME OF MY BULLIES! SHE BULLIES MY BABY MARINETTE! WAAAA! WHY YOU ALL LOVE HER!!IR2IQWUAJ" ;-; (sorry ,I just really dislike what they did with this show I mean it used to be one of my favorites show. I would always watch every episode of it and making short adrienette stories in gacha only to find out just how much messed up this show is. Why it needed to be the show that I watched since when season 1 was only?)
Felix is popular because he resembles the anime version of CN and the fact that he's more efficient than HM. But he isn't really interesting until the end. The bias the writers have towards him is wild.
I 100% agree with your opinions especially the Chloe one bc me and my bff love Chloe (her fav character is Chloe and Chloe is my second fav character) but it made us so mad when the creators completely destroyed all of her character redemption after season 3 meanwhile the main villain in the show gets forgiven and Natalie (no hate on Natalie she’s my fav character) but I also though her and Gabriel were gonna get together lowkey but they she randomly started caring about Adrien?! This show confuses me..also why can’t they just keep the good characters like they literally basically destroyed Chloe completely and Natalie dies. As much as I love miraculous sometimes it really makes me mad.
Thank you!! There are people who trash talk this series especially marinette but when derision comes out, people are all like “omg poor marinette. Chloe is a monster. This explains so much”, NO IT DOESN’T!!!! It doesn’t justify her actions, hell, it doesn’t even explain her actions. Ptsd doesn’t turn people psycho. That’s an insult to people who truly struggle from PTSD. Even if Mari-Sue does have “trauma”, that’s still not her main motivation. Her main motivation is obsession and possession. If it is ptsd, avoidance and trust issues would be the explanation. I’m not a writer, but if you see movies where anxiety and ptsd is done well, you kind of get it. And you don’t ever use ptsd and anxiety as an explanation for psychotic behavior. Psychotic people, bad people, can just so happen to have ptsd. Even if people sympathize with her character, it is still irresponsible of them to cut her some slack. A criminal is a criminal. They should still slap on the handcuffs and take her straight to juvy. She needs to suffer the consequences of her crimes teenager or not. She is old enough to understand what she’s doing. Show less They reverted Chloe's redemtion arc just so Marinnette wasn't the worst character and then deleted Chloe because they made her a second Liela, replacing her with a lesbian half sister just so someone takes the bee miraculous place. Then proceeded to make a silly PTSD flashback to excuse the creator's creepy obsessive idea of love, but it didn't help to cover up the fact Marinnette is a yandere mary sue. Trauma might explain behavior but not excuse it.
Great video. What got me is during the episode of the diamond dance, I was thinking “yeah if there’s any chance of this ship happening, there’s no chance after this” but look where we are now 🤷♀️
I agree with you. Felix didn't deserve a redemption arc. He committed SA! SA! And people will be like, "Oh HAHA let's ignore, that's let's ignore he tried to commit SA," Are you serious! TSK! Anyway, Chloe we really deserved it more that than the over-gelled Adrien dupe. Ladybug, actually helped Chloe to become nicer, but they just had to destroy that arc and threw it the bin. The thing that annoys me the most... *inhales* I'm ready. LADYBUG SAYS, "I CANT GIVE CHLOE A MIRACULOUS HAWK MOTH KNOWS HER IDENTITY,"... bffr. Viperion identity was revealed, Rena Rouge was, Carapace was, Kim was, Max's was and Kagami was. BASICALLY MAJORITY OF THE TEAM IDENTITY WAS REVEALED! IF YOUR LIKE, "Oh who else would she pick?" She replaced Zoe, the worst and unnecessary character, with Queen Bee. She could've replaced all of them with someone a year/grade before like what she done with ZOE! Marrinete doesn't even have real trauma. The trauma she should have was when Felix almost SA'd her. Chloe's thing that "gave Marrinete trauma," wasn't even proper nor real. Just a stupid, foolish exscue for stalking. "I stalk, because a boy who I liked me, pranked me and it was apart of Chloe's plan. I even went as far too stalking, and abused and took advantage of my alter ego, Ladybug, just for Adrien," That's her whole trauma. I'm glad that episode was called Derision. Derision means foolishness, or silliness. That "trauma" was derisional GOSH! Btw, the most realest MLB character. PS: Also on top of that Felix stalking Kagami. And I might add more rants. Feligami is the worst. Let me explain it. "Kagami, please date me. I stalk you, everyday -- that's so romantic -- I am making everything forget of all the bad things I done like SA'd and ruin my cousin's reputation, but let's ignore all of that! ANYWAY, date me so I can have a redemption arc and everyone will like me and forget what I done; and hate on Chloe even do I done way worse than her," BTW, I'M NOT ADRINETTE SHIPPER, SOME REASON I DONT LIKE IT SO I DIDNT SUPPORT HER STALKING
Chloe was looking like a pretty good redemption arc. Ie, it appeared to be happening! And then someone, who I'm going to assume has a similar blond girl they dislike vehemently for some reason or has decided to hate that trope, didn't like it. Wonder who...
Let's not forget about the mayor as well. This man was a corrupt mayor and he spoiled his child. But in season 5, he gets "redeemed" by running away from his mistakes. He literally abandons his only child with his ABUSIVE ex-wife because she's a lost cause. How can the show portray this man as a good person when he literally DISOWNS his child??? I could argue he's even worse than Gabriel. Gabriel's terrible but that's only because power go to his head imo. Like he was described as a good father before Emilie died. (But he still shouldn't have got a redemption.) Another person who didn't get redeemed but faced no consequences at the end of season 5 was Tomoe. But hopefully they do something to her in season 6 because she's honestly the worst woman in the show. She locked her child in this completely white room and forced her to be with someone she didn't like, which was terrible.
Hawk moth was not a good person. Not even in the end. Nothing excuses him from all that he's done. He acted terrible, and he was terrible. Lila, she is a horrible person. She lies and manipulates people's emotions to get what she wants. We still don't even fully know what she wants. The butterfly miraculous? Fame? Money? Love? Adrian? Who the heck knows. I feel she deserves no redemption. Felix. I'll admit, he was kinda badass though. But he did do horrible things. For example: Ruining Adrian's reputation with his friends and breaking all of their hearts for a whole episode. Acting PRETTY suspicious with ladybug (Though maybe that was just him trying to manipulate her using Adrian's image). "Stealing" a miraculous that was already "stolen". And even allowing hawk moth to get every other miraculous from ladybug just in exchange for the "Stolen" Peacock Miraculous. ELIMINATED THE ENTIRE HUMAN POPULATION. I get that he's probably a sentimonster and just wanted freedom, but he still did terrible things to get it. But I do still like that he got "Redeemed" in the end. Chloe. God damn I freakin miss Queen Bee. She deserved that redemption more than anyone. She was the perfect person for the miraculous of the Bee. Her sass combined with the people around her trying to help her and make her a better person made her the perfect superheroine. If she hears a dumb plan, she's not afraid to say its a dumb plan even if she sounds rude and petty while doing so. And her having parental neglect from her mother is just the beautiful glaze on top of the King's Galette. Because as she grows as a person, the group of friends/superheroes can help guide her and help her deal with the problems she has faced her whole life. And even help her help Marinette through the issues that she caused and seek forgiveness. TLDR: Chloe deserved better. And I hope Thomas Astruc sees the light and gives our true Queen the redemption arc she so rightfully deserves.
In the episode Despair Bear, Alya mentions how both Marinette and Chloe are fixated on Adrien. Regardless of what you think of Chloe, Marinette is just as bad, or worse. If Chloe was redeemed, Marinette could’ve also been redeemed a lot easier, considering how they both do things for their own gain. (Marinette does things to see Adrien, Chloe does things for her own gain.)
6:54 think she will be redeemed in the next season bec she looks sad and guilty on the planeeee and everyone seemed to enjoy her being rude which is why she was so popular
For derision, instead of the whole pool situation, should of just had a lot of people say how great ladybug is “when she’s ladybug” and surrounded by white cats, ads, shirts etc
I feel like ppl need to hear this. Not only Chloe's mother abandoned her when she was a child (and didn't even bother to learn her daughter's name) , which is enough trauma already for a young girl, but her father would consistently spoil her. By giving her whatever she wanted, she raised her really badly and rl spoiled her. That's why she ended up like this, thinking that she is better than everyone else. Since she was raised like this, she started to see her father as a tool to get whatever she wants. These things eventually turned her into a middle school bully. As a bully, untill like season 5 she didn't even do anything that bad. As mentioned in the video, marinette's ''trauma'' is just a stupid excuse to make the viewers empathize with her and forgive the fact that she is a creepy stalker. Marinette's backstory is just forced writing to make her look good and Chloe look bad. She would have gotten her redemprion arc in season 2 or 3 but she didn't bc thomas hates her for literally no reason. I believe that from the ppl who got redemption arc nobody deserved it. Chloe should have gotten one. It would have made a lot of sense and miraculous would have been a much better show. However, since the creator of the show hates her, they ended up making her team up with Lila anmd make her character even worse. They made Chloe go too far just bc they hate her. And ofc at the end, her father instead of taking responsibility for the horrible way he raised her, he just sent her away along with her mother. What a great show!
This show is a guilty pleasure, The fact that this show is for kids just makes it worse, because the message that they send is basically: "Remember kids, if you comitted SA, abuse, stalking etc. You can always change, but when you're a 14 y/o that picks on other students you're a lost cause and irredeemable" I used to love the show due to season 2, but I hate it now due to the rest of the seasons (especially season 3 and 5)
they brought the chloe thing out of the blue we never heard about it except once and it was in season 5 and chloe almost a redemtion arc when she got the bee miraculous but then marinette took from her the miraculous so chloe returned back to normal
I remember when i first watched season 2 I started to LOVE chloe coz she was becoming nicer and I LOVE her as queen bee she was my fav hero but in the end of s3 when they made her evil i was kinda mad because she had a reason to being the way she was. No 14 year old is pure evil- except lila but we dont even know her real age so..
I like Gabriel has redemption despite committing well almost committing mass genocide kidnapping child abuse assault beating up children for the jewelry threatening brainwashing destruction of property and ect how does he get a reduction or because his wife is gone everyone has dead people every single day and they don’t show up and turn out to be a homicidal psychopath who’s gonna do anything just bring my beloved wife and that’s not forget he knew what would happen if you bring back as a wife that someone will have to lose their mom or wife
You know it's weird because people say that Chloe is meant to represent and demonstrate how to deal with bullies, but it's like, Lila is a way better or more effective character for that. When bullies, she's more realistic since she uses her status and manipulation to turn people against her. Chloe arguably does the same but it is so ineffectual she'd get laughed at by half of the other middle schoolers. What was the point or replacing Chloe with an even worse Chloe?
Can I just say that I totally agree that Chloe should have crept her redemption arc. But saying she didn’t traumatise Marinette is a bit of a stretch. I agree that this was totally added as a way of saying “Oh bUt SHe HaS a REaSon FoR SYaLKinG” which is dumb. Especially when they tell us she’s gonna stop but in the very next episode she’s drooling over Adrien again. But bullying to the extreme that she’s frequently sent to the principals office for no reason. And convincing her crush to prank her (to which I have to say that I do not at all blame Adrian/Cat noir for wanting to claw his eyes out) to the point of her stalking people. Yaaaa sorry but I can’t say I agree. Also I agree that it’s dumb that Natalie and Felix got redemption out of nowhere. I don’t mind it but it definitely should have been better done. And I do agree with most on the fact that Felix as a villain would have been awesome. Anyway sorry for the long comment. Love u and have a good day :D
Bro Chloe was just mean while Felix literally committed genocide. Hes worse than Lord Shen and Judge claude frollo combined. Cause atleast they got what they deserve. Literally the people that do the worse things, alwayss get an redemption arc while Chloe is still evil.
There's so much wrong with Miraculous, and it all boils down to what Astruc wants the show to be - his perfect fantasy about the hypothetical daughter he would have had with his ex-girlfriend in the form of animation. Whenever someone else gets in control of the show, we get plot progression, character development, change in status quo and actual positive engagement from the fanbase, but when Astruc is in control we get plot and character derailment, forcing the status quo back to the show which hampers the narrative, and everybody hates it! Chloe was the best character in this show because her actions made sense given her backstory, she showed signs of growing up into a better person and stopped seeking validation to do what's right, and she was the best fighter of the three temporary ones! The dynamic she brought to the team was also interesting, because all of Paris knew her secret identity so Ladybug and Chat Noir didn't have to beat around the bush to get her help, they could just get her the Miraculous in front of everyone! In the hands of a competent writer, that would mean Chloe gets to show the benefits of the heroes knowing each other's identities to put Ladybug's obsession with never letting her and Chat Noir know each other's identities in check. But Alas, Thomas Astruc is a hack writer and he would rather completely destroy her narrative arc to force her back into the season 1 role (which in itself doesn't make any sense, Paris would never let her live it down and she would be essentially ostracized from society and her father would lose all his political power as a result from public outrage, but Status Quo is God in his mind), making everyone worse in the process! Gabriel did nothing to deserve a redemption throughout 5 seasons while Chloe had her redemption arc set up in season 1 and fully explored in season 2! Astruc should never be allowed to write for a show again, he's just that incompetent!
Hi Mariah! You did a really good job of summing this up! Why is the villain that could reasonably be redeemed the only one that doesn't get a redemption arc? I would like to make an extended rant on tumblr about the poor writing of the villains in this show, and I am definitely linking your video!
I didn't really care for Natalie and Felix's redemptions, mostly because I liked them as villains, they were both smart and way more competent than HM and I would've loved if either of them had taken the roll of main antagonist from him tbh But I absolutely despised Gabriel's redemption, he not only manipulated and terrorised the people of Paris, but was a horrible person on his own. He gaslighted and literally controlled his son, controlled every single aspect of his life, forced him to obey him and threatening to take the one thing that made him happy every time he fell out of line. He even trapped him in an isolated room (his biggest fear) and tortured him with nightmares alongside everyone else in Paris, I could go on for so long. And SOMEHOW him deciding to not end someone's life in exchange for his dead wife in the end was enough to make him a hero in the eyes of everyone including Adrien (granted, he didn't know about the HM part, but as I said, some of the worst things he's done were as Gabriel), but of course Chloe is the irredimable one 😒
Marinette has been to the pool before without any panic attack or PTSD, she has fought there and done so many things in the pool, that now he dares to introduce a chapter that would have made more sense in prior seasons!? I mean does the Crue care about at least consistency in characters, or they just drop whatever they want when Marinette needs it, or is in a situation that puts her already trashy image to worse. Well they are just making her look even like a bigger Mary sue, making her deserving of things she doesn't, sacrificing characters who don't need to be sacrificed. I may not have liked Chloe at first, but watching the episodes dedicated to her, her family, her situation, heck they would have even had the chance to give slight glimpses of Zoe , it all made me sympathize with Chloe. But they threw all her redeeming chances, and now Kim too, I'm glad I dropped the series but it still haunts me in SNS, and everytime it appears things get worse. So instead of having Marinette as a character and watching her life...WHY NOT DEDICATING IT TO THE AGRESTE FAMILY CONFLICT INSTEAD OF DEDICATING ONE SLOPPY PERFORMANCE IN FRONT OF MARY SUE AND HAVE A WHOLE OTHER COUPLE OF EPISODES EXPLORING IT!? WHY MAKING ADRIEN A SECOND BASE CHARACTER WHEN HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE SECOND LEAD?! Okay my spite has gone down but for me, whatever content of miraculous Ladybug realeses after this mess is gonna be worse than garbage.
Derision only existed to make people like Marrinette and hate Chloe , which made no sense considering that Chloe had no reason to bully Marrinette and PTSD that Mari had was no excuse for stalking.Mari honestly never deserved Adrien.
So I’ve been thinking about this topic since the season 3 finale came out so I’m gonna cover how I think this was handled which I think it was handled like how my sister was born aka it was badly handled I think I may just end up rewatching the show and rewriting it because there are a few problems I have with the show and most of them stem from how Chloe’s character was handled so I think that Felix and Gabriel getting a redemption arc was the wrong way to go and Chloe losing her redemption arc was a wrong way to go so I feel like that Felix should have been the next villain cause honestly he’s the best and smartest villain in my opinion but unfortunately he had to become a hero and that made me feel like destroying all my brain cells cause like why why not keep him as a villain cause I feel like he would been a great one but I feel like the writers wanted Feligami aka Felix x Kagami to be canon and Feligami is a whole other thing that I’ll get into later but I feel like if Feligami didn’t become canon Felix would have been the next villain and I feel like him getting a redemption arc wasn’t the best move honestly and I feel like Feligami was just made canon because they needed Kagami to have a love interest even though it was out of nowhere but anyways now I’m gonna talk about the smooth brain himself Gabriel Agreste so he definitely didn’t deserve a redemption arc I mean like if you give the guy who turned people into villains to save his dead wife and bring her back to life by taking jewellery from two teenagers and then give him a redemption arc no just just no and he’s probably done a lot more bad stuff but I’m not getting into all of that and just I hate it I really hate it and just I feel like whoever was deciding to g give Gabriel a redemption arc in the season 5 finale must have been wearing drunk goggles and you can’t tell me other wise and now since that’s done I can now get onto Lie-la now Lila I feel like that her not getting a redemption arc was a okay move like I personally think she could have gotten one in like season 2 or 3 but now I feel like I’m okay with that just a missed opportunity that’s all but now time for the thing that really pissed me off Chloe getting and losing her redemption arc like why just why why why she was fine as a villain but when she got a redemption arc it was great things where great but nope apparently someone (which I’ll get to that person later) said “Oh yeah she shouldn’t have one because she’s a bully and Chloe is way badder then Gabriel or Felix” which no just no no no no no Felix and Gabriel have done way worse things than Chloe and Miracle Queen could have been what ended Chloe’s redemption arc but i found something different apparently Thomas Astruc the creator co-director and writer for Miraclous based Chloe off of his bully back in high school i think and he took away her redemption arc after someone else gave her a redemption arc and after i found that out it made a bit of sense considering the last scene we saw of Chloe so far was her crying on the floor in a plane to New York I think and I just hate how the redemption arc stuff in the show has been treated and thats why I am never ever ever ever going to talk thing or breathe about this stuff ever again and that was how I feel how this stuff and has been treated in Miraclous and bye
So you know how there’s this comic called scarlet lady on tumblr, it’s where Chloe takes marionettes miraculous? Their called Zoe, AND AFTER CHLOES REDEMPTION ARC WAS BUZZED OFF WHO REPLACED HER? Z O E, bro ain’t no WAY this isn’t connected some~how
the Chloe redemption arc was so good and well planned. I hate what they did to her character after season 3 tho. they done right derailed her character right there and Akkad’s her go from against hawk moth to a shadow moth stan 😭
I also feel like all of Zoe’s storylines, including her “coming out” moment (which was literally just a look), would have been more impactful if they had been given to Chloe. Her “crush” on Adrien never really felt that legit anyway, and it could’ve just as easily been another example Chloe desperately trying to get her mother’s approval. Maybe that’s just me though.
This comment is mostly not serious What if Natalie was just hiding her true colors until Season 4 and wasnt in love with Gabreil.. BUT in love with.. Emily?
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Chloe could literally just be throwing plastic on the ground, but she will still get more hate than the guy who would use his power to erase humanity and leave only the sentimonsters alive.
I know, it's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.
Chloe's supposed redemption was a red herring. She was never on a path to be redeemed; it only kinda looked like she was.
Chloe's only motivation was to look good. Helping Ladybug helped her in that ambition - she was Queen Bee in order to gain the adoration of the public. It made her feel like she was better than everyone else. As soon as, in her estimation, she could do better on her own, she betrayed Ladybug. The lesson she never learned was that being a hero isn't about looking good - it's about helping others. The best heroes do so out of the public spotlight.
Part of why Marinette is so against revealing identities is because she doesn't want the accolades of being Ladybug. She just wants to help people
@@RonyChatterwhat you said is not wrong nor entirely true. Her first reason was indeed to look good but why would she want to, as she already seems to have what most wants? A slave dad, a subordinate, money, beauty, you name it. It was obviously to get her mother's attention, she was neglected by her mom and her dad, never had time to educate her and just gave her what she wanted thus leading to her behavior. "Making her feel she's above others" isn't quite right because she already felt like that even before she got the miraculous. It was literally mentioned so many times that it was for her mother's recognition, a mother who barely remembers her name, that is.
Furthermore, I believe the 'betrayal' you're referring too was not fully understood either, if I remember right, each time she 'estimated being better off w/o ladybug' it was when she was being angry or smth, never did she say, in a composed mind that she would have been a better hero w/o ladybug.
Then, let's not forget that Chloe, contrary to other heroes was not a good person to begin with, so her understanding would take more time and patience. As the episodes passed we could see that she was becoming more humane and was doing her best to help in some situations.
Finally, Marinette herself is not the best example of a superhero either.
Nb: this is but my humble thoughts, hopefully it doesn't trigger anyone. Have a good day/night and praise God ❤
@-_brwne_-340 true but according to some people the original writer didn't intend fir her to be redeemed so he scrapped the idea as it happened on his break
@@animeuploader4992 yeah, which is kind of stupid to be honest.
Gabriel got redeemed?! GABRIEL?! He has threatened COUNTLESS lives for 2 pieces of jewelry. He has beaten CHILDREN, thrown his son ACROSS PARIS, doesn’t care about his son’s happiness, ruined his sons love life, caused the destruction of the moon, abused his kwami, neglects his son, only thinks of himself, akumatized A BABY, ruined trips for his son, etc etc. Like how in the WORLD does a man who is pushing 50 and fights 14 YEAR OLDS get a redemption?! He is willing to DESTROY THE WORLD because he can’t get over his dead wife. Then he as audacity to say it’s for Adrien. What a joke.
I hate to say this but I saw this happening in S2
That's when I realized that this is a show aim for young children
And would most likely turn all the villains good except for the one that bullies people 🥲
But realistically
Gabriel would be in prison rn 😂
For children abuse, Terrorism, harassment, Power abuse, Stealing/Kidnapping, vandalism, Etc!
@@aqua_firebird1700 Yes! 😭
Yeeees . Thank you
Yes! Gabriel doesn’t deserve a redemption! Ladybug should have kicked his butt instead of forgiving him.
@@aqua_firebird1700 Yes Gabriel deserves jail!
i hate how her dad got a redemption as well like he was a shit parent n his redemption arc doesn’t even make sense but chloes did😭
In fact, the fact that he’s the reason why Chloé is the way she is and he just abandons her is just stupid.
RIGHTTT LIKE his long ass head hasn’t been doing anything.
@@Shield-Scope realll
Ii don't know if I'm reaching but- What I noticed is all the major male antagonists (Gabe, Andre, Felix) get redeemed while the female ones aren't (Chloe n Lila). Ii just think it's weird how two teen girls are way worse than two grown man n a teen who committed far more morale atrocities than those girls ever did. Feels like a bad messagee to send to children esp growing girls..
The man spoiled his daughter for years, was absent, never corrected her behavior and never comforted her when she was sad. But he is a good father to Zoe on the first day, even though she is not his real daughter
14 year old bully is somehow irredeemable but a FULL GROWN MATURE ADULT WHO ENABLES HER (also keep in mind that he’s the one raising her, her mother is literally a deadbeat so her dad is the most at fault for how she turned out) and is incredibly corrupt and awful somehow gets away scot-free (however you spell it).
“W-w-w-w-well his wife is mean and his daughter is a brat! 🥺” send that man to jail rn.
Also Marinettes “trauma” is the worst thing ever OMG “…next time i like a guy i’m gonna stalk him and commit multiple crimes because i have trust issues…! 🥺😢😞” BE NORMAL
The fact Felix committed Genocide and only stopped when he accidentally killed one extra person and is still redeemed but Chloe can't be redeemed after stealing miraculous (something Felix also did) pisses me off.
RIGHTTT
@@Howaboutyes11I know he's literally done all of what Chloe's done but worse and work less hard
spoilers!
season 6!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😢😢😢😢🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Like have been doing well with your family? I just want to let her guys? chloe plane crash full episode! I just want to know if you guys want to know that I have to be therefore your family?😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😨😨😨😨😭😭😭😭😭😭😤😤😤😭😭😭😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 please please let! I just want 443 million things and I’ll be doing that 😢😢😢 and I’m not going on the road now and 345 Argo’s And you want me too to get your happy 😢 ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤! I Just Want to make you happy and I like!
Derision isn’t canon to me. It came way too late. And tried to say Marinette’s stalking was a trauma response?! What a load of horse shit! I refuse to believe that!
Kim was literally afraid of spiders 💀, they ruined his character for the benefit of Marinette, Again
Yeah, why would ladybug keep giving Kim the monkey miraculous if he gave her trama? Oh wait derision was a dream, we must’ve had the same dream
@@Blazexiao master fu gave kim the miraculous
@@user-yw8ys4kq5x I know but ladybug continued to give Kim the miraculous meaning she trusted him
I think this is a real thing that can happen but it’s obvious it was ONLY to make her stalker actions look better
Imagine if Thomas left the show and they actually follow through with Chloe redemption
Impossible. Thomas is too greedy to let go of Miraculous, which earns the old man so much fuss
Fr, hes so immature@@ArgosThePeacock
Right. In the early seasons there's hints that show Chloe is a good person deep down, but just needed help showing it
@@xRandom_Bozo Exactly! He is such a manchild
that's possible for the film but not the show
I love redemption arcs, one of my favorite tropes but in miraculous.. they just don't know how to write a show i can't 😭
Agreed! Chloe's redemption arc was actually pretty good tbh, she was being nicer and became a hero! But they just threw that aside for what???
no but when the whole marinette trauma thing with kim u can tell they added that to hate on chloe fr
Thank you!! There are people who trash talk this series especially marinette but when derision comes out, people are all like “omg poor marinette. Chloe is a monster. This explains so much”, NO IT DOESN’T!!!! It doesn’t justify her actions, hell, it doesn’t even explain her actions. Ptsd doesn’t turn people psycho. That’s an insult to people who truly struggle from PTSD. Even if Mari-Sue does have “trauma”, that’s still not her main motivation. Her main motivation is obsession and possession. If it is ptsd, avoidance and trust issues would be the explanation. I’m not a writer, but if you see movies where anxiety and ptsd is done well, you kind of get it. And you don’t ever use ptsd and anxiety as an explanation for psychotic behavior. Psychotic people, bad people, can just so happen to have ptsd. Even if people sympathize with her character, it is still irresponsible of them to cut her some slack. A criminal is a criminal. They should still slap on the handcuffs and take her straight to juvy. She needs to suffer the consequences of her crimes teenager or not. She is old enough to understand what she’s doing.
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They reverted Chloe's redemtion arc just so Marinnette wasn't the worst character and then deleted Chloe because they made her a second Liela, replacing her with a lesbian half sister just so someone takes the bee miraculous place. Then proceeded to make a silly PTSD flashback to excuse the creator's creepy obsessive idea of love, but it didn't help to cover up the fact Marinnette is a yandere mary sue. Trauma might explain behavior but not excuse it.
@rhishere2265 ikr! i get that it made her sad but u do NOT have to stalk people in order to know them, marinette isnt “badass” or “cool” shes a stalker and apparently cant have any flaws on her. adrien shouldve been the main main character instead of marinette period.
@@courtsgf Right and Adrien barley get sences that he's him and not just Ladybug's partner boy didn't even know about master fuu most of the seasons and still has no powerups
@rhishere2265 it wouldve made more fun if adrien was the guardian, also adrien hasnt told not one person his identity yet, after all hes been through. thats some willpower i respect him
Honestly I think it would be better if Adrien had PTSD, he has an abusive father it would work very on him
People are deadass forgetting he willingly sabotaged Adrien's life just to akumatize three of his friends and put him in a bad light for no reason
And mind you
They were after Adrien
You know
*THE SON OF THE DUDE WHO AKUMATIZED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!?!??!?!*
RIGHT he did all that and suddenly in “Emotion“ he's like “I did this for you Adrien 🥺🥺“
And let's not forget that he tried to S.A ladybug by trying to make a move on her(whist impersonating Adrien)even though she said no 2-4 times to him and she literally had to punch him off her cuz he kept advancing DESPITE her pleas truly sickening 🤮
Hitting two birds(kinda litterally) with one stone. Impressive!
100th like
While Felix does need to apologize to Marinette. He never has to apologize for one thing. And that’s deleting her love confession video. On the day of Adrien’s mother’s supposed death. And let me make this clear. You never. Never, EVER! Send a confession of love on the day a child or adult is mourning a parent! It’s an icky thing to do! And not romantic at all! That’s the one thing Felix never has to apologize for. He did the right thing there.
You know, I never thought about that
That makes sense
I’ll see that episode differently now!
I get that you're a huge fan of Felix and all.... but come on now. 🤐
Tho I will say you are right to SOME extent. So I do partially agree.
Let's not forget that he sexually harassed and tried to assault her.
@@taylornusteling8692That he definitely has to apologize for.
The creator just genuinely hates Chloe obviously the kidnapper, identity stealing manipulator would have a better redemption arc
I agree and like I don't like Chloe at all but she deserved a redemption.
bro fym they gonna redeem lila???
@@krishnavinesh5638with the way the show is going after 3-5 seasons of her being the villains probably yeah
Thomas really loves playing favorites with his characters, and he loves to torment his scapegoats/black sheep of the group. None of the miraculous holders got a miraculous because Ladybug saw potential in them. They only got a miraculous because Ladybug liked them. She would not care in the slightest if one of her favorites sucked at fighting. Because this show has to be all about it her; the world has to always revolve around her, no matter what. And everyone is is forced to accept that. Thomas even had the sheer flipping audacity to go out of his way to say that Chloe was never an abuse victim, despite it clearly showing otherwise (hence why "show, don't tell" is extremely important), which invalidates other abuse survivors who find Chloe to be relatable and implies something much darker in store for her come "Revolution". It's extremely sick and twisted.
so kagami's solution to get over and move on is to date his twin cousin
i think it’s weird afk.
Y'know I never even thought about that until you mentioned it ✋😭 but you're right!
Especially considering he has traits that she would try to get Adrien to have- Felix pretty much does things his way while Adrien does what he's told whether he likes it or not- she complained about it constantly
That whole situation is messy 😭
Not only that but the fact she's dating someone who kidnapped her like- Kagami queen your standards are in the toilet.
Why would you wanna date someone who just kidnapped you?
@@magicalgirlanimefan She couldn't have Adrien so she dated edgy clone Adrien
@@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel ☠️
Okay, kind of off topic but I always found it very weird that Adrien and Chloe's friendship was so superficial in the show considering that for a long time, they were each other's only friends and when Adrien ended their friendship so easly, it kind of hurt because Chloe had no one by her side anymore. The amount of potential all these characters and their relationships had (not necessarily romantic) was just thrown out of the window just because Thomas Astruc refuses to grow up 😢
That proves no one cares about Chloe except her father maybe Sabrina
Boycott Thomas Astruc!
Don't know why Thomas is so obssesed with keeping Chloe down. Took away Sabrina, Adrien and her crime is what exactly? Gabriel, Felix, Natalie all did way worse than Chloe and they get sympathy. Gabriel literally locked up his own son and was going to force him to marry Kagami. Chloe didn't do anything that other akumatised victims didn't do. Then in s4 its like Thomas tried to up Chloe's bad traits so everyone hates her. In Queen Banana Plagg of all people says Vesperia is so mucn better than Queen Bee. That felt so shoehorned in.
@@QuillQ33I am in you got some explaining to do Thomas Astruc
cloie was always mean even from the beginning she acumatized half the population because she bullied someone
Also, what breaks my heart is that Chloe was getting her redemption arc but then got her heart broken by ladybug.
After she basically refused to trust her again.
And I was literary so upset that they made someone else other than Chloe the Bee holder.
And honestly Chloe biggest dream was to become a hero so that none would think she's useless and that is one of the most realistic feelings in the show.
And out of nowhere they just neglect her and ruin her character 😢
I also just felt like Chloe added some personality to the main squad and when they took that out, the squad felt blain
like they literally were all the same character with the same personality.
(✨🌸Reminder this is just my opinion 🌸✨)
Feel free to reply your opinions here as well 😊
@@margeryojije7862 What does wanting a fictional bully to be redeemed say anything about how a person feels about bullies in real life? It's fiction - the point of it is that it isn't real.
And before you say anything: Sure, it affects reality, but not as much as you think. Like, playing games based on war doesn't make you want to go out and actually fight and start full-on riots, does it?
Another issue with the whole “Chloe traumatizing Marinette thing” is that it supposedly happened before season one happened. However, during the event, Chloe acts more like how she did in seasons four and five
Words can’t describe how much of a perfect complaint video this is. Felix makes me so mad, and Chloe deserves better.
Fr! They just ruined her character so much!! She deserves a redemption but they just ruined it😭 Like- what is wrong with Thomas
@@caitlincabzz0918 Agreed! Like fr!
@@margeryojije7862you can become a better person but still not be forgiven, They were setting Chloe up for a redemption arc until Thomas robbed us of it.. It would've been a good plot to have her redeemed.
They better not give lila a redemption arc but at this point you never know. 😭😭
I like Felix, but I do feel like they shouldn't have forgiven him so easily. He did basically commit genocide and gave all of the miraculous to Gabriel. He also didn't apologize like you said. I'm not a fan of Chloe, but I don't hate her. It would've made sense if she got a redemption arc. They just turned her into the villain when she could've been like some kind of anti-hero. She could still be her spoiled self and save people. Gabriel's redemption arc was just him switching up in the end... like what? Then Natalie... I don't really know about her. I haven't watched the show in a while. I do like her though because she started looking out for Adrien and before that she was smart and helped Gabriel with his plans. I don't like Lila because all of the characters have to look so dumb around her. I agree that she's probably not going to have a redemption arc, though.
Felix looks like he wears too much gel. Bet it crunches😒
💀 nahhhh 😭🤣
@@miss_chelles1338 I'm being so serious. That the fact that he gets redemption but not our queen chloe, who looks fabulous 24/7
@ChibiGentlemen I bet he might have lice stuck in there
@@Sparkly1234 probably because he don't wash it
@ChibiGentlemen honestly that's true he might have a few insects also in there crying for their lives trying to eat the gel but he keeps putting it on
Natalie switched up because gabriel chose to go after ladybug and cat noir instead of saving her and his wife in season 5 she didnt switch up in season 4 😭
It was still rushed tbh
@@anonymous00651 wdym
@@Lofi.mystic her redemption arc
@@anonymous00651 yeah how was it rushed it was literally at the end of hawkmoths rain over the world
@@anonymous00651 girly was on her deathbed she even proven herself to help ladybug on given her tips and stuff to defeat his super villain army
I think Jeramy Zag wanted to give Chloe the redemption, but Thomas with his hatred to Chloe said no. So most likely Zag and some people on the team wanted to give and plan out her Redemption, but it was scrapped due to Thomas. And no matter what happens, Chloe is still a favorite than the actual main character( I think I don’t know)
I’m fine with Lila not getting a redemption arc I just don’t get why Chloe’s one was lost… the episode derision makes 0 sense and obviously the creators knew people found Marinette’s stalking a little odd so they made an excuse and blamed it all on Kim and Chloe.
literally. after season 2-mid 3 Miraculous went down on soo many lvls
Yeah like everything went wayyyy too fast
I'd say the show gets bad after Miraculer (the episode where Chloe rejects the Akuma) because every episode after that throws away any Chloe development
Agreed
This is so true! Like didn't Felix try to kiss ladybug against her will? Like she literally had to punch him so he would stop. But like a 14 year old bully can't?! Lile wtf
So Felix literally tried to S.A.(S*xually As*ult) Ladybug and yet chole is STILL called a monster??? I'm starting to loose respect for Tomas astruct......💀💀
i lost my respect for thomas astruc in that episode with his self insert because it was super cringe and ever since i've been just hating this man more and more
HI MARIAHHHH! I think our Chloe deserve a redemption arc😔😔😔😔😔
She deserves that and the bee miraculous🐝. #zoenotworthy
When Chloe became queen bee I was oh this will help be a better person she loves ladybug hates hawk moth/shadow moth and she is a super hero now so it will help her which it did for a while but then we took a one 80 and I was like no we were so close and now she hates ladybug and likes shadow moth/monarch??? Wait a minute hates ladybug loves monarch demonic wants to destroy others life’s they turned her into Lila the only thing they don’t have in common is that Lila lies to get here way and Chloe is just rude but it’s like they are the same person also are going to see Chloe in season 6 or is she just out of the story
This is why i love Utterly Chloe. Shes not brainwashed like more than half of the fandom.🖤💛
@@margeryojije7862 I wouldn't care if chloe wasn't redeemed if felix wasn't. Chloe is far more forgivable than felix, and he gets redeemed. I'm not saying that chloe deserves a redemption, im just saying of she didn't get one then felix shouldn't either. The writting for miraculous is bad period.
It’s so weird how Marinette is keeping Hawkmoths identity a secret for Adrien it’s crazyyy. Gabriel neglected his child and is lowkey insane. And I hate how they made Marinette depressed because of her miraculous responsibilities. I think season 4 and 5 could’ve been carried out a lot more efficiently, I literally had to watch the last two episodes like 5 times to understand them. Luckily Season 6 is getting a new writer.
wait season 6 is getting a new writer? is this confirmed?
@@voidsthread yeah, that’s what the miraculous wiki said
@@QuillQ33 right but remember anyone can edit that, did they give any proof?
A new writer? WE ARE FREE!!!!!!!!!!
I still can't believe that Gabriel got reddemed. A literal terrorist who almost let his son die to see if he was Chat Noir, akumatized little kids, akumatized a villain and gave him a miraculous that almost caused a nucular war, akumatized his son twice, destroyed the world twice and forcing his son to be with someone even if he has a girlfriend.
Yet Chloé, a girl who's abused by her mom and want real affection, who tried to be better, who literally have main character energy. She is irredeemable? Oh right I forgot. Thomas hate Chloe's guts because he's a man child who can't stand people loving someone who isn't Marinette.
As you said. Lila was right there! Fuck Thomas Asstruck.
I didn't want to see any more new episodes of the show after Adrien officially unfriended Chloe at the end of the 1st half of Season 5, after they had her say these words to him that were somewhat out of character! He spent the 1st 3 seasons defending her when she needed defense, but then he changes his mind & gives up on her, too? That ruined the show for me!
In fact, I noticed! Chloe would always be blamed for all of the trouble that Hawkmoth caused! He uses her as his favorite pawn & then somehow, she always becomes the scapegoat that the heroes point their fingers at! Those fingers should be pointing at Hawkmoth, not Chloe! At the end of Season 5, he's remembered as a hero when he clearly wasn't, while Chloe gets a dishonorable departure! What an injustice! I also noticed that starting with the lousy Season 3 Finale, they would have Chloe get angry about something & let her continue her temper tantrums for the rest of the episode instead of giving her the closure that she needs! I've been waiting for Chloe to get the closure that she needs about the Season 3 Finale; the show is in its 5th season but she still didn't get that closure because the superheroes never let Chloe know that they saved her parents for her when Hawkmoth disregarded their lives! She wanted to be Queen Bee again in the 1st place so she could save her parents, but she didn't have the Bee Miraculous because Ladybug hypocritically took it back from her! Hawkmoth manipulated Chloe as usual since he got the opportunity & then it was great big mess of nonsense afterwards! And poor Chloe keeps getting more undeserved vilification instead of the closure that she needs!
It's bad storywriting to vilify a character that doesn't deserve vilification! I got tired of the bad storywriting & switched over to Jeremy Zag's movie & I'm glad that I did that! The characters are written much better in the movie, including Hawkmoth! He discovers that Cat Noir is his own son Adrien & then quits villainy. Zag's movie excluded all of the complicated stuff that made the show less sensible!
And finally, I disagree with Thomas Astruc's statement about Chloe. She's redeemable; it's just that Astruc & his storywriting crew decided NOT to redeem her! The show was better when Chloe valued Ladybug & Adrien as her role models. However, they stopped being good role models for her. They taught her how to be nice, but they didn't teach her how to be kind. (There's a difference.) They would've succeeded in redeeming Chloe if they taught her kindness & what it means to be a hero; in fact, they should've kept reminding her that she can still be a heroine without superpowers! She helped the superheroes without superpowers in the episode entitled: "Despair Bear" & that was before she found the Bee Miraculous! The way I see how the 3rd season ended, Ladybug rescinded Chloe's source of superpowers for a stupid reason, without giving her a full explanation about the situation! And that's a hypocritical thing to do!
Despite the idiotic identity issue, Alya found a way to get Hawkmoth off her back after he discovered that she's the holder of the Fox Miraculous! She simply used its superpowers of illusion to fool Hawkmoth! Theoretically, Chloe could find a way to defend herself & her family if she still has the Bee Miraculous, her source of superpowers! It was unfair that Ladybug's other comrades still got their talismans back after Hawkmoth discovered their identities, while poor Chloe gets the cold shoulder! See how Chloe's character potential was wasted? That's bad storywriting, too, to waste character potential! The idiotic identity issue wasn't the only reason why the Bee Miraculous was rescinded from Chloe! It was also because Marinette/Ladybug just didn't like her, since Chloe's a reputed school bully that upsets Marinette with her remarks sometimes. At least Chloe loved Ladybug - Marinette's alter ego. However, she didn't know that Ladybug is Marinette; but Marinette still could have stayed in character & be a worthy role model for Chloe. That's how Ladybug/Marinette could have eventually redeemed Chloe. Anyway, you reap what you sow & hypocrisy has bad consequences.
Ultimately, what makes me feel better about the bad storywriting of the show is that the movie ended the way the show should have ended, so the movie was worth watching.
Felix’s redemption arc was a replacement for Adrian x Kagami
CHANGE MY MIND
TRUE OMFG
Exactly I wouldn't say I don't like felix x kagami a bit, but it really just felt like a convenient way of making sure Kagami doesn't get involved in Adrienette anymore in a way to say "look now we gave her someone better who just so happens to look like him now she's happy everyone's happy"
Chloe deserves another chance to do good in future seasons as Queen Bee. We need to convince Jeremy Zag to take over from thomas astruc to fix and change Chloe Bourgeois' redemption!
The trauma from Chloe was like not good but Chloe has worse & I also want her to get redeemed
Haven’t watched the video yet but I’ll never got over the fact that a 14 year old girl who’s parents don’t gaf about her was deemed completely irredeemable but we watch marinette knowingly offer a second chance not only to her boyfriends abuser but a literal terrorist that has made her, her partner, and all of Paris’s lives hell for years. I hate season five so much.
Months*
There’s a male sympathy problem in this show.
exactly, how does a grown old man who is a literal terrorist get forgiven that easily?? chloe's still a teenager and she's made questionable decisions but her brain isn't even developed? she can grow, but gabriel just gets it immediately? okay then.
I do agree about Nathalie, I shipped Gabenath
So what if it’s toxic? They’re the BAD GUYS, people, come on, it worked, it was cool
Marinette’s backstory should have happen in season 3 when her stalking was high level.
Better backstory: Marinette once had a crush on someone and dated but then this person dumped her for someone who “isn’t clumsy” and that’s why she believes that no one would have her because she’s a klutz.
The writers of Miraculous are actually so bad... This video made me realize that fact even more now.
Unlike Felix and so forth, Chloe definitely deserves a redemption arc. I know Felix supposedly "helped" and so forth, but he was the reason Gabriel got a hold of all the Miraculous in exchange for the Peacock, which just made everything worse compared to when Chloe had Master Fu's Miraculous box. She used the Miraculous and exposed the few holders they had yeah, but that's equally not as bad compared to Felix. I have never liked it and I never will that they just threw away Chloe's redemption arc just because the creator didn't like her. She was genuinely becoming a good person and the way they had Ladybug keep her in the dark like that was even worse, she could have just told Chloe that she wanted to keep her safe from Hawk Moth instead of just ignoring that she exists. She could have been a reliable and good friend if Ladybug was honest and didn't avoid her.
It's one of the biggest things that bothers me about MLB tbh. And to just bring in Zoe as a permanent placeholder for Chloe is wild. They could have made her a better person, but instead they just threw it that effort away just to replace her with someone who comes out of nowhere who is supposedly related to her, with a similar name, a somewhat similar look and just a nicer personality. That doesn't make her a good character, that just feels lazy.
I'm sorry if this bothers anyone or seems like too much, I tend to get too into what I'm writing. I don't hate Zoe though, just wish they could have done better for Chloe.
I 100% agree
Out of the blue a character called Zoe just popped up, especially after Chloe lost faith in ladybug.
The fact they did that is just messed up!
Ladybug or Mari could've been a true hero and stop treating Chloe as the worst person in the world and actually help her instead of neglecting her
I mean she is supposed to be the hero it's her job to save everyone.
I know everyone has their flaws but instead of showing Mari's flaws they just decide to cover it up by replacing Chloe with a person Marinette gets along with smoothly.
And honestly Chloe's biggest dream was to become a hero so that none would think she's useless and that is one of the most realistic feelings in the show.
And she was also one of the main hero group characters that stood out for actually having some sort of different personality
And I really enjoyed it
And ashamed that they changed it and completely ruined a perfectly good character
Yeah I seriously don't hate Zoe but they should have just kept Chloe's redemption arc instead of introducing a whole new character that comes out of nowhere😭 And they gave Felix a redemption arc after what he's done?(Giving hawkmoth the miraculous, assaulting ladybug, being evil so Adrien could be free or something) I honestly really liked Chloe's redemption, she was a really good character when she was starting to be nicer and sided with ladyug! I miss the days where she was ladybugs fan and wanted to be a hero! But instead they just abondond it and made Zoe(who again, I don't hate) for what reason????
@@caitlincabzz0918 Exactly!
I don't hate Zoe, I'm just upset that they used her as a replacement instead of helping Chloe.
Chloe honestly didn't deserve it, she has done the least harm compared to Felix, Nathalie and so forth. I SOMEWHAT get redeeming Gabriel so he'd die with his wife, but it doesn't excuse the fact both he and Nathalie literally had beaten up kids, and unintentionally, his own son. All Chloe did was give the main character a fear of heights, or Kim's pranks, been a while since I watched the episode. But she's a teenage girl, just like Marinette she makes mistakes, especially with how her parents had treated her growing up. How can you give Alya a second chance after she refuses the akuma and not Chloe, who also refuses the akuma at one point?
@@aqua_firebird1700 Yeah! I used to really like her when she was starting to be nicer but they just threw it aside for no reason? And then they gave Felix and Nathalie redemption when they literally did more terrible things???(I don't actually hate Nathalie btw but her redemption really doesn't make sense)The writers seriously need to know how redemption works😭 Chloe was actually redeemable but no, they made her the bad guy again. They made episodes making Chloe look bad and made the episode of Marinette's trauma so she could have an excuse for stalking and to make Chloe hateable. And then they gave redemption to a guy who gave Gabriel the miraculous, assaulted ladybug, and did many other selfish things and didn't even have a chance to redeem. I'm pretty sure he didn't even apologize and just became Kagami's love interest to make him look "trustable" and people just forgave him. When we were introduced to him, he already looked evil and didn't even look like he was doing it for Adrien💀 They prob just changed his reason to make him more "likable". BUT FIRST, THEY HAD TO MAKE A PERSON WE DONT EVEN KNOW TO BE HER REPLACEMENT(I actually like Zoe tho but it still doesn't make sense)
Everyone get redemption except chloe🗿
Honestly retcon after retcon, the bad writing for this show is inevitable and it’s near impossible to stop it
The shipper in me is just praying for an episode where Luka would hopefully help redeem Chloe but I know it will never happen 😭💙💛
Imagine being spiteful towards a character YOU CREATED.
I feel like the reason why Lila and Chloe are always attacking marinette is a good thing because think of it like this Lila said in that bathroom scene when her and marinnette met she’d never let her near Adrian and Chloe would basically stay in her way of getting to Adrian like in the beginning how she pushed marinette what if they do it because they know mari is a stalker and will do anything to see him so they bully her to keep her away from him to protect him from her
😂
In my opinion, I think anyone can get a redemption, even Gabriel. The problem is with how you execute it.
For a character to have a good redemption arc, they need to work for it and actually put in the effort. A good example would probably be Zuko from ATLA, since he helps the Gaang defeat Ozai and took a lot of effort.
Gabriel didn't really put in any effort for his redemption. All he did was make the wish to do something (not exactly sure what the wish is tho) and died. He didn't make up for all of the terrorism he did.
Felix did help Marinette realize that Gabriel was Monarch (kinda? she didn't remember it afterwards) and helped keep Kagami safe, but didn't make up for the SA he did and giving Monarch all the miraculous.
Nathalie's redemption arc, in my opinion, is a bit better. She does end up helping Mari in the end by telling her to detransform and all, but I do agree that her all of a sudden doing everything for Adrien and Emilie is kinda BS.
Chloe's redemption is probably one of the better ones. She works hard to try and help Ladybug and to be kind to others (I think).
I mean..the whole fact that they thought it was a good idea to make Gabriel be good at the end (kind of?) despite the fact that this dude literally would destroy everyone and his son just for his stupid wife who clearly didnt wanted that and make Chloe the bad cause "WAAAAAA SHE REMINDS ME OF MY BULLIES! SHE BULLIES MY BABY MARINETTE! WAAAA! WHY YOU ALL LOVE HER!!IR2IQWUAJ" ;-;
(sorry ,I just really dislike what they did with this show I mean it used to be one of my favorites show. I would always watch every episode of it and making short adrienette stories in gacha only to find out just how much messed up this show is. Why it needed to be the show that I watched since when season 1 was only?)
I can’t be the only one who is completely OBSESSED with her intro
Felix is popular because he resembles the anime version of CN and the fact that he's more efficient than HM. But he isn't really interesting until the end. The bias the writers have towards him is wild.
In most of his appearances he felt more like a plot device instead of an actual character.
@@user-dk3lg9np6p Most of the characters in the show are.
chloe and felix couldve been such good characters if the writing didnt let them down
I 100% agree with your opinions especially the Chloe one bc me and my bff love Chloe (her fav character is Chloe and Chloe is my second fav character) but it made us so mad when the creators completely destroyed all of her character redemption after season 3 meanwhile the main villain in the show gets forgiven and Natalie (no hate on Natalie she’s my fav character) but I also though her and Gabriel were gonna get together lowkey but they she randomly started caring about Adrien?! This show confuses me..also why can’t they just keep the good characters like they literally basically destroyed Chloe completely and Natalie dies. As much as I love miraculous sometimes it really makes me mad.
Chloe not getting a redeemtion arc annoyed me so much, she deserved it!
I have no idea why they gave Chloe this whole redemption arc and then just dumped her, have been enjoying the show less ever since then 💀
Atp our Queen could just breathe and still get more hate than anyone else in this goddam show
Thank you!! There are people who trash talk this series especially marinette but when derision comes out, people are all like “omg poor marinette. Chloe is a monster. This explains so much”, NO IT DOESN’T!!!! It doesn’t justify her actions, hell, it doesn’t even explain her actions. Ptsd doesn’t turn people psycho. That’s an insult to people who truly struggle from PTSD. Even if Mari-Sue does have “trauma”, that’s still not her main motivation. Her main motivation is obsession and possession. If it is ptsd, avoidance and trust issues would be the explanation. I’m not a writer, but if you see movies where anxiety and ptsd is done well, you kind of get it. And you don’t ever use ptsd and anxiety as an explanation for psychotic behavior. Psychotic people, bad people, can just so happen to have ptsd. Even if people sympathize with her character, it is still irresponsible of them to cut her some slack. A criminal is a criminal. They should still slap on the handcuffs and take her straight to juvy. She needs to suffer the consequences of her crimes teenager or not. She is old enough to understand what she’s doing.
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They reverted Chloe's redemtion arc just so Marinnette wasn't the worst character and then deleted Chloe because they made her a second Liela, replacing her with a lesbian half sister just so someone takes the bee miraculous place. Then proceeded to make a silly PTSD flashback to excuse the creator's creepy obsessive idea of love, but it didn't help to cover up the fact Marinnette is a yandere mary sue. Trauma might explain behavior but not excuse it.
Great video. What got me is during the episode of the diamond dance, I was thinking “yeah if there’s any chance of this ship happening, there’s no chance after this” but look where we are now 🤷♀️
It’s honestly disappointing given the fact there were multiple episodes where she was in her way to a redemption arc and the writers just said “nvm”
Didnt they explain that those episodes were just the red herring and we were supposed to feel betrayed?
@grakuynosc7270 idk but it's still disappointing either way
I agree with you. Felix didn't deserve a redemption arc. He committed SA! SA! And people will be like, "Oh HAHA let's ignore, that's let's ignore he tried to commit SA," Are you serious! TSK! Anyway, Chloe we really deserved it more that than the over-gelled Adrien dupe. Ladybug, actually helped Chloe to become nicer, but they just had to destroy that arc and threw it the bin. The thing that annoys me the most... *inhales*
I'm ready. LADYBUG SAYS, "I CANT GIVE CHLOE A MIRACULOUS HAWK MOTH KNOWS HER IDENTITY,"... bffr. Viperion identity was revealed, Rena Rouge was, Carapace was, Kim was, Max's was and Kagami was. BASICALLY MAJORITY OF THE TEAM IDENTITY WAS REVEALED!
IF YOUR LIKE, "Oh who else would she pick?" She replaced Zoe, the worst and unnecessary character, with Queen Bee. She could've replaced all of them with someone a year/grade before like what she done with ZOE!
Marrinete doesn't even have real trauma. The trauma she should have was when Felix almost SA'd her. Chloe's thing that "gave Marrinete trauma," wasn't even proper nor real. Just a stupid, foolish exscue for stalking. "I stalk, because a boy who I liked me, pranked me and it was apart of Chloe's plan. I even went as far too stalking, and abused and took advantage of my alter ego, Ladybug, just for Adrien," That's her whole trauma. I'm glad that episode was called Derision. Derision means foolishness, or silliness. That "trauma" was derisional
GOSH!
Btw, the most realest MLB character.
PS: Also on top of that Felix stalking Kagami. And I might add more rants.
Feligami is the worst. Let me explain it.
"Kagami, please date me. I stalk you, everyday -- that's so romantic -- I am making everything forget of all the bad things I done like SA'd and ruin my cousin's reputation, but let's ignore all of that! ANYWAY, date me so I can have a redemption arc and everyone will like me and forget what I done; and hate on Chloe even do I done way worse than her,"
BTW, I'M NOT ADRINETTE SHIPPER, SOME REASON I DONT LIKE IT SO I DIDNT SUPPORT HER STALKING
Chloe was looking like a pretty good redemption arc. Ie, it appeared to be happening! And then someone, who I'm going to assume has a similar blond girl they dislike vehemently for some reason or has decided to hate that trope, didn't like it. Wonder who...
Let's not forget about the mayor as well. This man was a corrupt mayor and he spoiled his child. But in season 5, he gets "redeemed" by running away from his mistakes. He literally abandons his only child with his ABUSIVE ex-wife because she's a lost cause. How can the show portray this man as a good person when he literally DISOWNS his child??? I could argue he's even worse than Gabriel. Gabriel's terrible but that's only because power go to his head imo. Like he was described as a good father before Emilie died. (But he still shouldn't have got a redemption.) Another person who didn't get redeemed but faced no consequences at the end of season 5 was Tomoe. But hopefully they do something to her in season 6 because she's honestly the worst woman in the show. She locked her child in this completely white room and forced her to be with someone she didn't like, which was terrible.
Gabriel 100% should not have gotten one.
Hawk moth was not a good person. Not even in the end.
Nothing excuses him from all that he's done. He acted terrible, and he was terrible.
Lila, she is a horrible person. She lies and manipulates people's emotions to get what she wants. We still don't even fully know what she wants. The butterfly miraculous? Fame? Money? Love? Adrian? Who the heck knows. I feel she deserves no redemption.
Felix. I'll admit, he was kinda badass though. But he did do horrible things.
For example: Ruining Adrian's reputation with his friends and breaking all of their hearts for a whole episode. Acting PRETTY suspicious with ladybug (Though maybe that was just him trying to manipulate her using Adrian's image).
"Stealing" a miraculous that was already "stolen". And even allowing hawk moth to get every other miraculous from ladybug just in exchange for the "Stolen" Peacock Miraculous. ELIMINATED THE ENTIRE HUMAN POPULATION.
I get that he's probably a sentimonster and just wanted freedom, but he still did terrible things to get it. But I do still like that he got "Redeemed" in the end.
Chloe.
God damn I freakin miss Queen Bee.
She deserved that redemption more than anyone. She was the perfect person for the miraculous of the Bee. Her sass combined with the people around her trying to help her and make her a better person made her the perfect superheroine. If she hears a dumb plan, she's not afraid to say its a dumb plan even if she sounds rude and petty while doing so. And her having parental neglect from her mother is just the beautiful glaze on top of the King's Galette. Because as she grows as a person, the group of friends/superheroes can help guide her and help her deal with the problems she has faced her whole life. And even help her help Marinette through the issues that she caused and seek forgiveness.
TLDR: Chloe deserved better. And I hope Thomas Astruc sees the light and gives our true Queen the redemption arc she so rightfully deserves.
You know the day is gonna get at least 10% better when Utterly Chloe posts a miraculous video❤
This girl is always gimme the happy hormones. Thank u girl we really missed u
In the episode Despair Bear, Alya mentions how both Marinette and Chloe are fixated on Adrien. Regardless of what you think of Chloe, Marinette is just as bad, or worse. If Chloe was redeemed, Marinette could’ve also been redeemed a lot easier, considering how they both do things for their own gain. (Marinette does things to see Adrien, Chloe does things for her own gain.)
6:54 think she will be redeemed in the next season bec she looks sad and guilty on the planeeee and everyone seemed to enjoy her being rude which is why she was so popular
Luka and Chloe 🫰
For derision, instead of the whole pool situation, should of just had a lot of people say how great ladybug is “when she’s ladybug” and surrounded by white cats, ads, shirts etc
I feel like you should be the one to voice all the Miraculous characters💀😭😭
I feel like ppl need to hear this. Not only Chloe's mother abandoned her when she was a child (and didn't even bother to learn her daughter's name) , which is enough trauma already for a young girl, but her father would consistently spoil her. By giving her whatever she wanted, she raised her really badly and rl spoiled her. That's why she ended up like this, thinking that she is better than everyone else. Since she was raised like this, she started to see her father as a tool to get whatever she wants. These things eventually turned her into a middle school bully. As a bully, untill like season 5 she didn't even do anything that bad. As mentioned in the video, marinette's ''trauma'' is just a stupid excuse to make the viewers empathize with her and forgive the fact that she is a creepy stalker. Marinette's backstory is just forced writing to make her look good and Chloe look bad. She would have gotten her redemprion arc in season 2 or 3 but she didn't bc thomas hates her for literally no reason. I believe that from the ppl who got redemption arc nobody deserved it. Chloe should have gotten one. It would have made a lot of sense and miraculous would have been a much better show. However, since the creator of the show hates her, they ended up making her team up with Lila anmd make her character even worse. They made Chloe go too far just bc they hate her. And ofc at the end, her father instead of taking responsibility for the horrible way he raised her, he just sent her away along with her mother. What a great show!
This show is a guilty pleasure, The fact that this show is for kids just makes it worse, because the message that they send is basically: "Remember kids, if you comitted SA, abuse, stalking etc. You can always change, but when you're a 14 y/o that picks on other students you're a lost cause and irredeemable"
I used to love the show due to season 2, but I hate it now due to the rest of the seasons (especially season 3 and 5)
they brought the chloe thing out of the blue we never heard about it except once and it was in season 5 and chloe almost a redemtion arc when she got the bee miraculous but then marinette took from her the miraculous so chloe returned back to normal
I remember when i first watched season 2 I started to LOVE chloe coz she was becoming nicer and I LOVE her as queen bee she was my fav hero but in the end of s3 when they made her evil i was kinda mad because she had a reason to being the way she was. No 14 year old is pure evil- except lila but we dont even know her real age so..
Basically my opinion:
I like Gabriel has redemption despite committing well almost committing mass genocide kidnapping child abuse assault beating up children for the jewelry threatening brainwashing destruction of property and ect how does he get a reduction or because his wife is gone everyone has dead people every single day and they don’t show up and turn out to be a homicidal psychopath who’s gonna do anything just bring my beloved wife and that’s not forget he knew what would happen if you bring back as a wife that someone will have to lose their mom or wife
You know it's weird because people say that Chloe is meant to represent and demonstrate how to deal with bullies, but it's like, Lila is a way better or more effective character for that. When bullies, she's more realistic since she uses her status and manipulation to turn people against her. Chloe arguably does the same but it is so ineffectual she'd get laughed at by half of the other middle schoolers. What was the point or replacing Chloe with an even worse Chloe?
Can I just say that I totally agree that Chloe should have crept her redemption arc. But saying she didn’t traumatise Marinette is a bit of a stretch.
I agree that this was totally added as a way of saying “Oh bUt SHe HaS a REaSon FoR SYaLKinG” which is dumb. Especially when they tell us she’s gonna stop but in the very next episode she’s drooling over Adrien again.
But bullying to the extreme that she’s frequently sent to the principals office for no reason. And convincing her crush to prank her (to which I have to say that I do not at all blame Adrian/Cat noir for wanting to claw his eyes out) to the point of her stalking people.
Yaaaa sorry but I can’t say I agree.
Also I agree that it’s dumb that Natalie and Felix got redemption out of nowhere. I don’t mind it but it definitely should have been better done. And I do agree with most on the fact that Felix as a villain would have been awesome.
Anyway sorry for the long comment. Love u and have a good day :D
Bro Chloe was just mean while Felix literally committed genocide. Hes worse than Lord Shen and Judge claude frollo combined. Cause atleast they got what they deserve. Literally the people that do the worse things, alwayss get an redemption arc while Chloe is still evil.
They tried giving Chloe a redemption arc but they threw it out of the window after season 3
(i completely agree with all ur opinions in this vid) Lila might get it at the end of season 12😂
There's so much wrong with Miraculous, and it all boils down to what Astruc wants the show to be - his perfect fantasy about the hypothetical daughter he would have had with his ex-girlfriend in the form of animation. Whenever someone else gets in control of the show, we get plot progression, character development, change in status quo and actual positive engagement from the fanbase, but when Astruc is in control we get plot and character derailment, forcing the status quo back to the show which hampers the narrative, and everybody hates it!
Chloe was the best character in this show because her actions made sense given her backstory, she showed signs of growing up into a better person and stopped seeking validation to do what's right, and she was the best fighter of the three temporary ones! The dynamic she brought to the team was also interesting, because all of Paris knew her secret identity so Ladybug and Chat Noir didn't have to beat around the bush to get her help, they could just get her the Miraculous in front of everyone!
In the hands of a competent writer, that would mean Chloe gets to show the benefits of the heroes knowing each other's identities to put Ladybug's obsession with never letting her and Chat Noir know each other's identities in check. But Alas, Thomas Astruc is a hack writer and he would rather completely destroy her narrative arc to force her back into the season 1 role (which in itself doesn't make any sense, Paris would never let her live it down and she would be essentially ostracized from society and her father would lose all his political power as a result from public outrage, but Status Quo is God in his mind), making everyone worse in the process!
Gabriel did nothing to deserve a redemption throughout 5 seasons while Chloe had her redemption arc set up in season 1 and fully explored in season 2! Astruc should never be allowed to write for a show again, he's just that incompetent!
I love your videos and I always agree on your opinions 💅
Thank u sm!
Hi Mariah! You did a really good job of summing this up! Why is the villain that could reasonably be redeemed the only one that doesn't get a redemption arc? I would like to make an extended rant on tumblr about the poor writing of the villains in this show, and I am definitely linking your video!
I didn't really care for Natalie and Felix's redemptions, mostly because I liked them as villains, they were both smart and way more competent than HM and I would've loved if either of them had taken the roll of main antagonist from him tbh
But I absolutely despised Gabriel's redemption, he not only manipulated and terrorised the people of Paris, but was a horrible person on his own. He gaslighted and literally controlled his son, controlled every single aspect of his life, forced him to obey him and threatening to take the one thing that made him happy every time he fell out of line. He even trapped him in an isolated room (his biggest fear) and tortured him with nightmares alongside everyone else in Paris, I could go on for so long. And SOMEHOW him deciding to not end someone's life in exchange for his dead wife in the end was enough to make him a hero in the eyes of everyone including Adrien (granted, he didn't know about the HM part, but as I said, some of the worst things he's done were as Gabriel), but of course Chloe is the irredimable one 😒
Marinette has been to the pool before without any panic attack or PTSD, she has fought there and done so many things in the pool, that now he dares to introduce a chapter that would have made more sense in prior seasons!? I mean does the Crue care about at least consistency in characters, or they just drop whatever they want when Marinette needs it, or is in a situation that puts her already trashy image to worse. Well they are just making her look even like a bigger Mary sue, making her deserving of things she doesn't, sacrificing characters who don't need to be sacrificed. I may not have liked Chloe at first, but watching the episodes dedicated to her, her family, her situation, heck they would have even had the chance to give slight glimpses of Zoe , it all made me sympathize with Chloe. But they threw all her redeeming chances, and now Kim too, I'm glad I dropped the series but it still haunts me in SNS, and everytime it appears things get worse. So instead of having Marinette as a character and watching her life...WHY NOT DEDICATING IT TO THE AGRESTE FAMILY CONFLICT INSTEAD OF DEDICATING ONE SLOPPY PERFORMANCE IN FRONT OF MARY SUE AND HAVE A WHOLE OTHER COUPLE OF EPISODES EXPLORING IT!? WHY MAKING ADRIEN A SECOND BASE CHARACTER WHEN HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE SECOND LEAD?! Okay my spite has gone down but for me, whatever content of miraculous Ladybug realeses after this mess is gonna be worse than garbage.
You're amazing!!!
Derision only existed to make people like Marrinette and hate Chloe , which made no sense considering that Chloe had no reason to bully Marrinette and PTSD that Mari had was no excuse for stalking.Mari honestly never deserved Adrien.
Exactly!
FOR REAL😤 SHE GIVES ME THE ICK
So I’ve been thinking about this topic since the season 3 finale came out so I’m gonna cover how I think this was handled which I think it was handled like how my sister was born aka it was badly handled I think I may just end up rewatching the show and rewriting it because there are a few problems I have with the show and most of them stem from how Chloe’s character was handled so I think that Felix and Gabriel getting a redemption arc was the wrong way to go and Chloe losing her redemption arc was a wrong way to go so I feel like that Felix should have been the next villain cause honestly he’s the best and smartest villain in my opinion but unfortunately he had to become a hero and that made me feel like destroying all my brain cells cause like why why not keep him as a villain cause I feel like he would been a great one but I feel like the writers wanted Feligami aka Felix x Kagami to be canon and Feligami is a whole other thing that I’ll get into later but I feel like if Feligami didn’t become canon Felix would have been the next villain and I feel like him getting a redemption arc wasn’t the best move honestly and I feel like Feligami was just made canon because they needed Kagami to have a love interest even though it was out of nowhere but anyways now I’m gonna talk about the smooth brain himself Gabriel Agreste so he definitely didn’t deserve a redemption arc I mean like if you give the guy who turned people into villains to save his dead wife and bring her back to life by taking jewellery from two teenagers and then give him a redemption arc no just just no and he’s probably done a lot more bad stuff but I’m not getting into all of that and just I hate it I really hate it and just I feel like whoever was deciding to g give Gabriel a redemption arc in the season 5 finale must have been wearing drunk goggles and you can’t tell me other wise and now since that’s done I can now get onto Lie-la now Lila I feel like that her not getting a redemption arc was a okay move like I personally think she could have gotten one in like season 2 or 3 but now I feel like I’m okay with that just a missed opportunity that’s all but now time for the thing that really pissed me off Chloe getting and losing her redemption arc like why just why why why she was fine as a villain but when she got a redemption arc it was great things where great but nope apparently someone (which I’ll get to that person later) said “Oh yeah she shouldn’t have one because she’s a bully and Chloe is way badder then Gabriel or Felix” which no just no no no no no Felix and Gabriel have done way worse things than Chloe and Miracle Queen could have been what ended Chloe’s redemption arc but i found something different apparently Thomas Astruc the creator co-director and writer for Miraclous based Chloe off of his bully back in high school i think and he took away her redemption arc after someone else gave her a redemption arc and after i found that out it made a bit of sense considering the last scene we saw of Chloe so far was her crying on the floor in a plane to New York I think and I just hate how the redemption arc stuff in the show has been treated and thats why I am never ever ever ever going to talk thing or breathe about this stuff ever again and that was how I feel how this stuff and has been treated in Miraclous and bye
My fav podcast ✨
i think the creators went too far with chloe in season 5 (no hate to them). in my opinion i think season 2 is the best season out of all of them!
havent watched MLB in years. shocked chloe hasnt gotten her redemption arc yet. :(
Also when Chloe’s redemption arc was buzzed off, she became so much more popular lmaoooo
So you know how there’s this comic called scarlet lady on tumblr, it’s where Chloe takes marionettes miraculous?
Their called Zoe, AND AFTER CHLOES REDEMPTION ARC WAS BUZZED OFF WHO REPLACED HER?
Z O E, bro ain’t no WAY this isn’t connected some~how
There needs to be a reboot.
the Chloe redemption arc was so good and well planned. I hate what they did to her character after season 3 tho. they done right derailed her character right there and Akkad’s her go from against hawk moth to a shadow moth stan 😭
EARLY FOR A VIDEO FRO OUR QUEEN!
I also feel like all of Zoe’s storylines, including her “coming out” moment (which was literally just a look), would have been more impactful if they had been given to Chloe. Her “crush” on Adrien never really felt that legit anyway, and it could’ve just as easily been another example Chloe desperately trying to get her mother’s approval. Maybe that’s just me though.
Another thing why Felix should not have been forgiven he literally GAVE all the miraculous to gabriel
This comment is mostly not serious
What if Natalie was just hiding her true colors until Season 4 and wasnt in love with Gabreil.. BUT in love with..
Emily?