Testing Tesla on the Deadliest Road in America 🐉
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2021
- A review of the Tesla beta self driving system.
- Thank you, Bonnie Bees, for making this video possible: / cgpgrey
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Thank you so much to all the Bonnie Bees, I couldn't do this without you: www.patreon.com/cgpgrey
Raw footage of the ride: ua-cam.com/video/Oz4yMGbRa4Q/v-deo.html
What’s up with the masking
This is a pretty unique CGP Grey video
Dude, you know this is the end right? 40% of the human workforce is just.. over.
I love it, but couple this with your rules for rulers video, dang man.
Dang.
Literally nothing about this road is anywhere near as challenging as driving in traffic on a basic city street or highway and this does nothing to prove autonomous vehicles are safe, ban this technology
@@rowinso Its to show his hands during the drive but he wanted to have a clearer image of the actual road with the other camera for the video.
The dragon has really clean road lines and is very well maintained. It may be curvy but it's still a pretty "happy path" test scenario. Owning a Tesla in Wisconsin quickly reveals the larger gaps in the software with our busted up roads and rough winters. It's incredibly impressive, but does have a long way to go on roads in disrepair.
Hell, even in this video you can see it go over the lines several times, and that's while hovering in the 15-30 mph range. Maybe a bit irresponsible to fluff it with so much praise at the end without reminding viewers of the problems it had earlier in the video.
@@totlyepic It's not really a big deal when there's no oncoming traffic to slightly cross the line on a curvy road like this. That's pretty human.
@@totlyepic I mean, you saw them. And he acknowledged them. Why would he keep addressing something that happened such a few percentage of the time the car was on auto-pilot?? You remember, that's kinda where it ends.
@@emmanuelguzman5944 "a few percentage of the time"... when it was crossing so far into the other lane that it would have ran other vehicles off the road. It only takes 1 to cause a fatal accident.
@@nitehawk86 Computers don’t sneeze. They don’t look at texts. They don’t fall asleep.
wait, grey isn't a simplistically styled stickman in real life?! I feel betrayed
And he can grow a beard...
He is, he’s just upped his animation
He's just wearing a VERY elaborate human disguise, don't fall for it
Did you not see the pictures at 5:53? He is just a simplistically styled stickman, just 3d
@@cemafor1006 wow, I didn't even notice that.
This wasn't a bad test, but it wasn't, IMO, a great one either. A well maintained, well marked two-lane road,;with limited crossroads in perfect weather conditions with minimal traffic. The decisions the car needed to make were minimal.
The places where autopilot is going to be stressed are multi-lanes roads, cross roads, poorly marked roads, poorly maintained roads, etc.
exactly. in terms of programming, this was only a little harder for the car than driving in a straight line.
Also, the road isn't dangerous because of any objective road conditions. Just _how_ people drive a windy road.
I think this video was done more so for fun instead of an actual fully thought out test. Like it’s more “how will an AI drive on a famous American road known for its crashes?” instead of an actual QA test by an independent professional.
Agree it should try driving the streets of Maryville Tennessee only a few miles from where he turned around at. Alcoa highway next to Mcghee Tyson airport was only 30 minutes away and has been under construction for years as has most of the interstates in Knoxville I kid you not there has been a section that has been under road work since before I was born. Lane closures no markings because of them being scoured multiple lanes of traffic going 65 MPH and up. Yeah it would be fun to see AI navigate that nightmare.
It’s the people who make the road dangerous
5:54 The little detail of putting his stick figure character in his place is just so funny and wall made!
Grey: "Dad, can I have the keys to the car?"
Dad Grey: " Why? "
Grey: "I need it for work...."
And technically Grey is right.
'keys' ;)
i was a boy. they were 138 girls. can i make it any more obvious? thats right, i had a crazy dream last night. HAHAHAHAHA!!! im the funniest youtube star ever. youre welcome for laughing dear mike
And in the event of an accident...
"Grey, did you crash my car?!"
"No dad, it crashed itself!"
@@AxxLAfriku ???
Grey a few years ago: I have driving anxiety, and driving on a highway at night while tired (albeit with partial self-driving) was so dangerous in retrospect that I couldn't even put cheerful music over the footage.
Grey now: Let's put my entire life in a full self-driving _beta's_ hands on The Deadliest Road in America! WOOOOO!
Yes, I remembered that episode too. I think CGP Grey gets really freaked out by nighttime driving for some reason.
@@AndyZach he had a wreck cause of night time driving
Lockdown has really changed everyone
For the actual danger involved, that all makes complete sense. There is nothing actually dangerous about this road, and a slow day like this noone's d4iving crazy either ...except this AP disaster.
wasnt he in UK?
Grey on the Loneliest Road: *death and destruction and existentialism thoughts activated*
Grey on the Deadliest Road: *ahh i'll be fine with this BETA software*
But can it drift through every turn like it's Initial D
I don't think that's safe 🤔
@@BlackYell0w_ Thats the point. The only reason it's the deadliest road is because people do unsafe things on it, not because of the road itself (As many others have pointed out)
@@BlackYell0w_ Safer than 90% of drivers
That would be so confusing as a Tesla plays "Gas Gas Gas"
@@879PC just replace it with running in the 90's or other eurobeat
Love how all the lane markings are crisp and it still manages to cross the double yellow. A+ lane keeping there.
yeah this strikes me as worrying especially because there were really no obstacles
The software is much more considerate of space around actual obstacles like other vehicles or pedestrians. Were there oncoming traffic, it would not be cutting nearly as close.
It clearly knows where the line is, it even shows the car touching the yellow on the visualization. It's an intentional choice to improve the driving dynamics, though imo it probably needs to be dialed back.
Looks very human to me. When there's no cars in sight human drivers tend to be more forgiving. Especially when taking sharp corners where you don't want to slow down to much and want to avoid extra g's.
Classic garbage in garbage out scenario. It was probably trained using human driving data...
my verdict is very different to grey's. apart from some low-visibility hairpins this was a very, very easy environment for the algorithms. continuous bright line markings, no overtaking, almost no opposing traffic, no sidewalks, crossings, actual humans, traffic lights, ... basically this was a simple line follower exercise but it did not even manage to do that completely successfully. the only upside: the programmers knew how dangerous it is and made it go really slow.
Literally nothing about this road is anywhere near as challenging as driving in traffic on a basic city street or highway and this does nothing to prove autonomous vehicles are safe, ban this technology
I will ask have you been there? Its hard for video to convey just how tight these turns are and how severe the elevation change is in some turns
@@juggernautAA12 but it's about the speed though. I lived with roads much sharper and harder and with greater elevation changes than the dragon but if you took them slow like this Tesla it was just tedious and boring
@@juggernautAA12 To be honest it seems like a pretty safe mountain road compared to most of them in France. There usually is no markings because the road is not wide enough, and sometimes you have to full stop in order to safely pass an opposing car.
I think it's important to make small incremental tests though and that's great, but it is difficult to be optimistic when I know it can't do a lot of things I need to do while driving.
@@juggernautAA12 the dude is spamming that comment all over the thread. He's just butthurt that we will be banning human drivers in the next decade, since you have heard about every single crash one of these causes, but if we were to list off every human caused accident, the news would never end.
I dont know why but the little touch of Winter “reacting” made me smile so much.
Tail of the dragon is EXTREMELY fun. I could be mistaken but i think i heard the reason its so flowing and natural is its just a paved dirt road and that dirt road might have been just made from a deer trail. So the design of it was done organically by nature.
As easy a self-driving test as it should get. No complications, single uninterrupted road, no crossings or traffic lights. No pedestrians. No merging or overtaking. Clear and consistent markings. No traffic signs. No light signals. It is practically a road sprung from a laboratory test tube. If it wouldnt do this blindfolded something would be seriously wrong.
This. It's a dangerous road, for humans. We should not rate an FSD tech by human difficulty standards.
@@yrosan It was also still cutting corners, not something you want to do when there are blind turns, especially when it's a road you know people drive too fast on.
But what does it do when presented with "The Trolley Problem"?
@@johns9652 The trolley problem is a dishonest scenario. A self driving car shouldn't be caught off guard. It shouldn't even get itself into situations where it could occur.
@@johns9652 Currently most data for such decisions isnt there outside of very simple cases. Eventually more data will be there, and that will be an interesting societal development when we codify harm reduction ethics routines into our autonomous conveyance units.
Yeah, the only reason the Tail of the Dragon is so dangerous is that people tend to go there as thrillseekers. I grew up in the area and learned to drive on the roads there, there's plenty of roads with similar curves or a similar density of curves, but they don't see nearly the same amount of crashes thanks to the lack of people driving as recklessly, the amount of crashes really appears to me to be due to people driving irresponsibly. I drove it back on Labor Day Weekend in 2021 and saw motorcyclists driving dangerously fast around the curves, and being chased by a Tennessee State Trooper with their lights and sirens going. I was also out visiting Fontana Dam on 4th of July Weekend and saw the traffic that was redirected from the Dragon due to a large truck crashing on the road.
I watched this (and the full ride video) and kind of had a "that's it?" reaction. I guess this seems intense to Easterners, but I've had to deal with far more intense turns with far steeper drops in California, where they basically cut a notch into a mountainside and say "this is a road now!" And I'm sure ours are utterly outclassed by some roads elsewhere.
Seems like the road itself is a self fulfilling prophesy. It claims to be the most dangerous road in America, which attracts the most dangerous drivers in America, and therefor makes the road more dangerous and adding to its dangerous reputation.
Wtue
Glad to hear a local's perspective, thank you!
Granted that it's difficult to tell how steep/twisty a road is just by watching driving footage, but it made me wonder if it's reputation is self-fulfilling because of thrill seekers...glad to know someone who lives in that area has that conclusion. The drive to the nearest grocery store seems at least as dangerous as this, if not more! I live in the Ouachita Mountains in the Choctaw Nation/SE Oklahoma and I know of a few state highways that are far less well maintained, with waaaay more dangerous sets of curves and sudden drops, no cell signal to speak of, and nearest hospital well more than an hour away. I suppose "deadliest road" and "most dangerous road" don't have to be one and the same if people travel more dangerous routes less.
Thought so, in Norway, the land of narrow and windy roads, this seems to me like a decent stretch of non-motorway road in comparison.
This is a perfect example of how what's easy for humans and what's easy for machines are not strictly overlapping.
The song that starts at 4:10 and isn't listed in the description is Antidote X by Van Sandano.
I'm so glad everyone in the comments is treating this as the interesting-yet-not-groundbreaking display it is. People can get way too overexcited by self-driving cars *cough*veritasium*cough* and go overboard with their praise.
A lot of people are scared of change and this is one where one day they will replace humans driving. You'll have companies lobbying against it even in UA-cam comment sections for years possibly decades. For me, it's an inevitability, because ultimately the technology just needs to drive better than humans and not be perfect, and we are bad at driving. Just might not go full autonomous in my lifetime.
@@Furycrab The thing is that you can't ban human driven cars until there is a completely functional replacement established. Full self driving literally doesn't exist yet and some people think self driving cars will be mandatory in 20 years. Remember that the average car lasts 11 years and today most new cars are still gasoline powered. There is no way self driving cars will make a significant impact in the next 10 years outside of the wealthiest areas.
@@Furycrab The problem is that Grey is presenting this like a 'the future is now, old man' video, when it's not. This road isn't dangerous, the way people drive on it is dangerous, and that Tesla is programmed to obey the rules of the road. If you watch the uncut version, that car really struggles with tight bends, and goes over the yellow lines multiple times. That technology is not finished. A real test would be driving this thing into the center of Amsterdam, where the roads are narrow, and there are obstacles and blind corners everywhere. There are trams, and taxis, and cyclists, all of whom will take the right of way, whether they have it or not.
@@Furycrab yes, they are going to replace us, but I think our best shot is an investment in public transport
The difference with Veritasium is that his was wholly an advertisement video, part of a media project/campaign by the company he showcased
Does seem like less of a challenge for a self driving car compared to city traffic.
Just like basic math is less of a challenge to a calculator. Some jobs should just be delegated to machines.
@@CaMallmann Agreed. Roads like this ( and of course easier ones) are safe enough for the self driving, even if the system still needs some improvements. But city driving is way different and has way more to pay attention to. Combine that with the fact that every city and town is different, all with unique infrastructure and that makes a standardized system have a way harder time.
Totally not a challenge, my Rc autonomous car could drive faster ( safely ) on that road😬.
@@marxthesocialist5231 considering a lot of logistics take part in highways in similar situations, that take hours, if not days, of labor to be traversed, it would already be a huge improvement for mankind as a whole to have these vehicles automated.
Considering the risks and impecils in more densely populated urban areas, where you have to react to other human errors, like poorly designed roads and signs along with other bad drivers, last mile delivery could probaly remain human for a while longer.
But then again, drone delivery might solve a lot of these issues.
@@marxthesocialist5231 Didn't we have self-driving cars that could handle these sorts of roads a decade ago though?
If I didn't believe I'd get run over by a 16 year old in a civic, I'd love to ride this on my bicycle.
Now whilst many debate the effectiveness of this test, I view it as amazing for one clear reason: The department which manages this road, despite its fame and supposed danger, has kept this road so well maintained that an AI can safely traverse it on its own. It also presents a theory of what if there are multiple self driving cars alongside multiple manual motorists and etc, and if self driving cars could also then at a point comfortably aid drivers who were traversing incredably long stretches of road and had little time to make stops, with the potential of running into a road like this being less of a threat or obstacle and rather just another part of the trip.
Even in my country, I dont really think I can seriously consider such a well maintened road dangerous...
It's a beautiful road too, weird that people wanna rush past it
In my country this is basically a major route i mean it has TWO SIDES! LIKE going one way and the other way like WOW we do those curves and more on single track and pray you don't have to reverse up or down the hill if someone comes and there are no passing places XD
So you'd never run on a trail? 🤨
North Carolina generally has the best roads on the East Coast--highest road tax on the east coast. Not sure about Tennessee but I suspect it's okay as well.
As others have said, it's not; the road isn't the problem, the dipshits who drive there explicitly to drive too fast are the problem. The title is fairly clickbaity.
If it had said "twistiest road in the U.S.", that would have been a much better thing to focus on.
The road itself looks amazing to drive as a scenic route, but while very twisty, what makes it dangerous seems to be the stupidity of people driving on it. Even if you're following the rules and not putting yourself in danger, you still are hugely dependent on whether other people on the road are as well. The fact that it has gained such a reputation doesn't help either.
This. I come from a very mountainous country where roads are rarely straight for long (even motorways) so people are used to that. And still "accidents" happen every now and then.
Yeah, this looks no worse than roads up here in Washington with major highways across it, or state routes.
It looks like a 40 to 60 road if you are in a hurry.
Impossible to get over 60 there, there isn't much room for mistakes.
Overall, more of a scenic route, except it has loots of tree ls and few outlooks.
Speeds are in km/h by the way.
Exactly this. One of the more dangerous highways in the country is near where I am, but driving it you wouldn't really understand-it's well marked, reasonably wide, and the speed limit is only 80k/h. It's twisty, and there are no dividers, (and no streetlights), but it's a decent road.
The problem is people get complacent, doing it as a commute, and start driving a twisty mountain road in the dark too fast. All it takes is one person crossing the line, and you got a head-on collision at a cumulative 200k/h
Yes, you can be doing all the right things but if someone coming the other way is about to swerve into your lane around the blind corner to save .5 seconds on their 'speed run', you're still in trouble.
I take car meets out to the dragon all the time. Rules are: Keep 2 cars spacing and never cross the yellow lines.
The dangerous part of this road are the blind corners and the sharp turns. You have to brake way harder than you think. Honestly, this road is much more forgiving on brakes than a circuit track, but the lack of visibility and the constraint of being stuck in 1 lane has tricked even experienced track drivers in my experience.
This bit of road is a lot of fun, just takes discipline and awareness to enjoy it. Never drive alone in this road.
That's actually an interesting question on what's harder on the brakes. Last time I ran deals gap I COOKED my brakes. There is no 1.5 mile straight like on a track to cool the brakes. It's throttle/brake/throttle/brake constantly for 20 minutes.
@@tealruby582 Then you should have accelerated less to save on energy deposited into brake pads.
@@johndododoe1411 I didn't fly across the country to drive the gap so I could drive slowly 😉
@@tealruby582 Not slowly, just slow enough for the brakes to survive for another drive. Also, how did you fit your car into airline luggage?
@@johndododoe1411 Southwest has a very generous carry on policy.
This is kind of interesting. I live in California, and here, we have tons of mountain roads just like this. I think there are two main differences: for one, there are way less people on them most of the time, and the people there don't try to test how fast they can go. Pretty interesting if you ask me.
So... what makes that road so dangerous, aside from idiots driving too fast?
Seems like a fairly well maintained stretch without any/many branches, crossings, or whatnot. That should be an easy task for a self driving car.
This! That's not a dangerous road, the people driving it are dangerous. Let the autopilot drive as fast as it can, and it will be dangerous. (if that was possible)
The dangerous bit is when you leave the road itself, either by reckless driving and/or bad visibility due to weather and/or the location of the sun.
@@stokkie01 I think it was driving as fast as it can. It automatically slows it self around corners when it thinks it needs to slow down. He may have the speed set as a max 30 but the car rarely got all the way to 30
Its the combo of people driving so fast they fly off the road, harleys out for a slow cruise, and idiocy.
What makes "the Dragon" famous is a combination of a) how curvy it is and b) that it has a fairly long stretch with *zero* intersections or driveways of any kind. Your only worry driving it is people right in front of you crashing, and people coming the other way crossing the center.
I don't want to step on any toes here, but in Switzerland this would be a pretty normal mountain road; except there would be some form of guard rail or stone wall along the WHOLE road and there would be signs with reflective arrows pointing indicating the direction of the turns (especially imprtant at night). We have mountain roads even smalller than that, there are traffic lights, because in parts the road is only wide enough for one lane to go through at a time. The alps are full of such roads. Of course we have wider mountain roads too, but in the rural areas it's pretty much like this or even narrower. Buses ("Postautos") use these roads too. They have a signature horn the use before blind corners. It's all very normal here, no overabundance of crashes or anything. If an incident / accident happens in the mountains, there is the "Rega", a non-profit air ambulance to rush the injured to the nearest hospital. In the mountains this is often the quickes way compared to road-based ambulances an in case of injured hikers or climbers the only option. Their phone number is 1414.
Edit: Thanks you gals & guys for the lovely discussion and for making this my most upvoted comment ever :)
It is only the deadliest road in the US because of all the people treating it like it is a one way closed track. Remove those idiots and it is just some sharp corners and steep elevation changes.
Moar chocolate
@@Chaun1998 and I bet that most of those idiots are drunk
@@Chaun1998 Plus, apparently, nobody cares about installing guardrails in America.
Oh Europe. You had me at “non profit air ambulance”…ours are for profit and not covered by insurance.
He encountered literally no one on his side and passed by a whopping 4 cars. And the road is insanely well maintained there wasn't even a single branch. The tech is cool but autopilot could have done this no problem.
1:44 - if curious, the motorcycle is: Thoroughbred stallion trike
Thanks!
Looking at the road and doing research, I don't think there was a danger of the Tesla crashing into anything, rather, the danger was 'is anyone going to crash into you?' Most of the problems for the road seem to just be reckless drivers. Otherwise, it's just a twisty road, and if it's built to proper specifications then the Tesla should have no problem dealing with it.
Well it does pretty well with these well maintained lines, in the full video it quite literally crosses the entirety of the double lines into the other lane a few times, at one point being almost entirely there in a blind corner. If a car were coming, it would’ve absolutely been the teslas fault there, neither it nor an oncoming driver would’ve had time to react because the Tesla was in the wrong lane in a blind corner. So the Tesla definitely does have some issues. I really don’t think this software is fully developed enough to be placed on every road, but it is getting more and more impressive.
Even watching it, I could tell for a lot of the time it wasn’t necessarily dangerous, but I would not want to be veering that far out without the ability to quickly recorrect, which is why you should have your hands on the wheel but of course… people are people and full self driving is a rather deceiving term.
The road looks great. The problem is idiots on the road. They should set up a dozen surveillance cameras, it might help a little anyway.
I would love to know how it handles Newfound Gap (US441). It goes through GSMNP about 30mi. north of US29 and is probably more twisty, but it's got pull-offs, scenic overlooks, and trailheads from end to end (Also, at least the last time I saw it, it was nowhere near as well maintained.) *I* often have trouble telling if a car is fully parked at a pull-off or is about to zip out in front of me , so I imagine it would be a rough time for the Tesla.
@@bradenculver7457 Actually based on other tesla driving videos it would've slowed down and swerved back into it's lane before the approaching car got close enough. That scenario is well defined and easily identifiable.
The areas where it has problems would be things things it hasn't seen before or rarely and needs training data. Unmarked roads, random construction signs/markers/pylons, strange markings on vehicles...etc. Those things it needs a lot of work on but they're also not typical.
@@bradenculver7457 The Tesla can react fast enough, and was going slow enough, it could have moved over.
"Welcome to America's MOST FUN to drive road. I came here specifically NOT TO DRIVE."
Sounds like Grey to me.
its a very grey thing to do when you think about it
Grey: "Winter, can I drive on the fun road?"
Winter: "We have fun roads at home, Grey."
Fun=Deadly apparantly
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 exactly
0:27, can we all just appreciate the beautiful and mesmerizing mountains and forests.
I think his heart was exceeding the speed limit more than the motorcyclists
I'll be honest, and I realise this could just be a distorted perspective from the camera, but this road does not look unsafe at all, the turns look managable, and the road itself is in excellent condition, in rural Australia you will find roads at least as winding that are not paved at all. The only danger as far as I can see, is the reputation and subsequent foolish drivers an motorcyclists who drive on it extremely unsafely. Let me know if I am incorrect though if you are familiar with this road and/or other mountain roads
The danger isn’t the road, it’s the humans on it. That’s where all the danger comes from when driving: humans.
@@thedeviantguy I mean I have to disagree with you there, putting all the responsibility of safety in drivers is ignoring the very real aspect of road design and safety measures, something this road clearly does very well and an unpaved road on the edge of a bare cliff with no railing would conversely not do well.
That being said in this case yes the people are actually the worst
@@thedeviantguy The human behind the wheel is also the reason why roads are safe
It's the mental stress comes from continuous turns and the reputation it has which causes humans to make mistakes.
On usual roads one wouldn't need to be this tense about like million turns.
This is basically the simplest thing a self-driving car should be able accomplish: follow painted lines around corners with no intersections, pedestrians, cyclists or pets to complicate the situation, not even a passing lane. I'm kind of amazed the previous version failed at this, but it's not like success here in any way indicates that this software is safe to be used in urban environments.
The reason is the other drivers on this road. They constitute the real danger
Older versions of autopilot and FSD didn't slow down for sharp corners. Also, if the road was sharp enough, the front camera could actually completely lose sight of the road mid turn. The newer version is able to kind of stitch together the front and side view cameras so that it can keep the road tracked all the way through the turn. It's also smarter about reducing its speed when needed. I'm actually not sure current autopilot, which is really more for just interstate driving, would be able to do this even still. I don't think it's been upgraded yet to use the same camera models and vision algorithms that the beta uses. I could probably disable beta and try it though.. the road I live on has a 90 degree bend that autopilot would lose tracking on right in the middle of the turn.
He did actually test it on urban roads.
i want more CGP Grey IRL videos, seriously, I loved watching this
Honestly that road is perfect for Tesla’s. Traffic isn’t complex and the road is clearly defined.
the most dangerous part about that road seems to be other ppl going ape mode on their 2 ton death machine
That's the most dangerous part about almost every road, besides maybe some mountain trails in the Peruvian highlands or something.
It’s damn fun
@@lonestarr1490 No, I've driven those kind of roads and like with everything else in life the most dangerous thing is always other people. I recommend taking peek at the Chilean side of the Chile/Argentina "Paso Libertadores" crossing, a shitty road filled with so many incredibly sharp turns, it's bonkers and doubly so when there's white wind, you have at most 6 ft of visibility in front of you, a Tesla would just kill people there.
@@tony_5156 Damn right
to those unaware, Tesla is taking down videos of the fsd beta failing miserably. it's against their terms of service. there have already been a handful of accidents.
I have been down this exact road as a passenger, and it is so gorgeous! It rained really heard on our approach from Gatlinburg, but luckily it was dry by the time we got to the curvy part.
I used to live 30 minutes from here in Knoxville, Tennessee. The Dragon is one of my favorite roads to drive. Going in the early hours of the morning is best for cruising. Enjoying the curves and the road while not going balls to the wall is quite relaxing IMO. Also 10 minutes from the Tail of the Dragon store is the Cherohala Skyway, a much straighter 60 mile road through the mountains. Often I'd just take 5 hours of a Saturday, drive from Knoxville to Telico Plains, hop on the Skyway, cruise with my windows down, stop at Tapoco Lodge for a beer and a burger, hit the Dragon, hit Foothills Parkway up through Walland, TN then head back to Knoxville. One of the best driving routes for driving through nature.
This road seems like one of the easiest roads you could have for a self-driving car, as long as its in decent condition with no accidents. It would be fun to see what happens if there is an upside-down car on your lane.
Not for the person in the upside-down car...
@@Vodhin They would get an upside-down demonstration of how to drive properly as you go past!
It would likely stop or make the driver take over
I know, right? If it doesn't recognize the thing as a car because it's upside-down…
@@airwindows Even if it doesn't recognise the wreck as a car, it will obviously see the huge obstruction in the path and react accordingly.
I am now fully convinced that Americans have no idea what a bad or dangerous road actually looks like.
This is a freaking highway...
That video doesn't show just how extreme the elevation changes are. Also it is mostly dangerous because of all the blind corners, and daredevils crossing the yellow lines.
Well it's the most dangerous road in america, statistically. As a subjective opinion compared to the rest of the world, you're right. Maybe it's not AS dangerous as other places but that's not the point of the video.
nice curves though. like in the Canary islands, it never freezes there so the tarmac is always in pristine condition. along with the occasional rockfall and a full damage waiver insurance it's a perfect rally track.
Same, as somebody who lives in rural Wales, this road looks tame to say the least.
A dangerous road is defined by how many fatalities there are statistically.
Which can be objectively measured
For someone that doesn't drive much you sure do a fair amount of videos about cars and roads. Nice one Grey, that road is a bucket list item for a lot of people.
It's wonderful, probably life-saving technology. Would be awesome if it was being used for a robust bussing, train, trolley, etc system instead of to manage traffic of the least efficient and most financially incentivized way to move humans from one place to another.
Dude, trains already go on a fixed path, and all of public transport carry tens or hundreds, maybe thousands of people everyday. If you automate those, you'll only be removing their "drivers", which is a relatively low number, compared to the number of people driving their own car on the road. The point is to replace human drivers eventually.
@@grenzviel4480 did you read any words besides "train?"
Just gotta get human drivers, politicians and lobbyists out of the way.
@@MorteTheSkull trolleys also go on a fixed path. Some busses have different paths with other busses, but they are also usually on a fixed path (because it is public.. duh?). The point was, he was thinking about public transport. My point was that it's private transport that needed this tech, not public, because private transport account to a much more significant transportation inefficiency and safety concerns. Seriously, if UBER was as cheap as public transport like busses, a LOT of people wouldn't even get a car. And if the car was fully automated and has an attachment for a bicycle, you'd see a lot more people in bicycles.
There have been driverless trains in regular service since the 1980's. The entire Vancouver SkyTrain is driverless. The entire London Docklands Light Railway is driverless. Many airports have driverless shuttles between terminals. Nearly all modern high-speeds drive themselves (Automatic Train Operation), though they have human drivers for redundancy and for the segments on older railways leading to the high speed lines.
I think a busy urban street in the middle of the day is a much harder test than the dragon for this kind of tech.
Literally nothing about this road is anywhere near as challenging as driving in traffic on a basic city street or highway and this does nothing to prove autonomous vehicles are safe, ban this technology
I know right? Nothing about "dragon's tail" itself is particularly "dangerous". The road is dangerous because it has so many reckless drivers on it. Take the reckless drivers out of the equations and just about any self-driving car could navigate this road because the only thing the car would need to do is follow the lines on the road.
Making robots that follow lines on roads is what middle schoolers do in their extracurricular robotics classes. The only thing this video demonstrates is that Tesla cars can do the bare minimum of "self-driving".
@@xp8969 Don't be a Luddite. Human drivers are often unsafe as well, and unlike humans the autonomous vehicles will keep getting safer.
In fact (assuming that you aren't already past your life expectancy) you'll probably see a day when governments seriously consider banning manual driving due to the danger.
@@faragar1791 I mean, thats why this isn't available to the general public. I think its incredible that we have come this far. Im not trying to rush autonomous driving. We'll see videos like this on busy streets when the tech is ready. For now just enjoy the ride ;)
@@VitalVampyr Manual driving will never be banned in America. Look how much trouble they have regulating actively dangerous things like guns. Maybe within certain city limits the local government will ban it. In China it's much more likely there could be a general ban.
Next, go in the Alps of Switzerland if you want tight corners, huge cliffs, small roads. This road looks very safe in comparison.
He can also go to the Andes in latinoamerica
That road seem to be pretty normal to me (.-. )
Or tons of other places in the US.
Some of the Canary Island roads, e.g. on La Gomera, come to mind too.
Literally the same thought, doesn't look like a mountain road to me 😆
Everything else aside, the views from that road are _gorgeous_ and I’d kill to live there. I mean, I know the Smoky Mountains are beautiful, but seeing it like that from the car is something else. :)
The “self driving” tech reminds me of a famous Jeremy Clarkson quote:
“You make a self driving car, sit in it without using any of the controls, and let the car drive itself along the old Yungas Road from start to finish. If there is no poo in your pants at the end of the route, I’ll buy that car.”
Lmao that hilarious
Nice, But It’s such a simple road with perfect lines on both sides- I would be disappointed if it didn’t manage to be honest… Chaotic city traffic would be much more interesting!
Literally nothing about this road is anywhere near as challenging as driving in traffic on a basic city street or highway and this does nothing to prove autonomous vehicles are safe, ban this technology
@@xp8969 A ban is not ideal imo let’s see what Innovation the automakers manage to pull off. What should be done instead is to improve infrastructure and keep cars out of city centres.
Just google FST 1.6.1 Beta. there's tons of videos of early testers. The system is getting better every two weeks at the moment.
I want to see how it handles bad roads. Potholes, faded lines, snow-covered roads, etc. Urban environments have one set of challenges, and so do unmaintained rural roads.
@@kingjulien6727 40 years ago my city banned vehicle traffic from one street at the core of our downtown and it destroyed every single business turning it into a ghost town, 5 years ago they reopened the street to traffic and businesses are now thriving again
Roads like that seem actually easier than most to do via software; they're basically just twisty but also quite easy to drive because no intersections, pedestrians or other stuff going on. That a lot of people die is because of all the nonsense people get up to; it seems a very nice relaxing drive compared to trying to navigate a downtown area of a major city.
The Blue Ridge Parkway an hour or so away would probably be much more difficult. It has a center line painted but doesn't have the outside white lines (so it 'blends into the landscape and has a rural feel'). Though generally the parkway has guardrails on areas of steep drop off.
It would be interesting to see it navigate an obstruction which has not had traffic management in place yet. Would it deliberately break the solid line (something usually illegal) to do something perfectly legal under the circumstances?
For those like me wondering what music track starts at about 2:52 - it is Van Sandano - Antidote X. Grey, update description plz! Also, great video.
Great test, Grey! We're proud of you, Winter!
But it's only dangerous because it's a nice curvy road on which people like to drive as fast as possible. If everyone was following the speed limit I am confident it wouldn't be any more dangerous than your average road...
So, still quite dangerous.
Nothing about "dragon's tail" itself is particularly "dangerous". The road is dangerous because it has so many reckless drivers on it. Take the reckless drivers out of the equations and just about any self-driving car could navigate this road because the only thing the car would need to do is follow the lines on the road.
Making robots that follow lines on roads is what middle schoolers do in their extracurricular robotics classes. The only thing this video demonstrates is that Tesla cars can do the bare minimum of "self-driving".
Guess who doesn't drive over the speed limit in dangerous conditions?
Autonomous cars.
@@HeythemMD Guess who is not going to drive autonomous cars if the point of the drive on the dragon's tail is having fun?
Humans.
Guess what drives dangerously slowly in surprisingly simple situations? Autonomous cars. (And really, really bad drivers.)
I drive a street like this every day on my way to work.
And they are nothing unusual in Germany.
Its kinda interesting how this attracts so many driver just because it is something different from the 6 lane straight forward streets.
I really enjoyed driving over there, like you said the curvy roads are normal. The cars on a whole were pretty small and boring though. Even the race rental at the ring was a 1 series. Meh.....
It's literally just the roads reputation. Most roads in Pennsylvania are this curvy (and people go pretty fast there too). Rural roads are curvy. The danger on this dragon road is the other drivers, and sheer volume of idiots.
Most people don't like driving on stroads.
Love the tail of the dragon, went there a few years back when I had my Camaro. Hoping to take my Supra through there this year.
Crossing the yellow would freak me out, but cool test and I'm surprised how well it did! Also glad you came out unscathed :)
Truck Driver: I got a little lost
Grey: the police were waiting for him down the road
You saw that part of the video too?
Winter definitely crossed the yellow line at spots. What happens if she was across the yellow line and a car was coming ... does she automatically correct it? Glad she made it, but still curious about some things.
my thoughts exactly, I wouldn't call this a pass when the car went over double lines and, by the interface and screen, *knew* that it went over double lines.
Beta definitely behaves differently when other objects (eg cars, pedestrians) are on the road. This changes the drivable space. With no other cars, the lane markings are just guidelines.
It does move over, if it can see the other car coming. Unfortunately, on winding roads, most curves are blind and the car can't see oncoming traffic.
Super trippy seeing CGP grey drive around an area I grew up in.
Now I want to take my Fiero there. I don't need to go fast to feel like my life is in danger
When a self driving car can negotiate Swindon's Magic Roundabout (which has multiple routes to the same exit) then I'll consider it's reached beta stage.
I watched some videos of this. It took me a little while to notice (probably because I'm American and the roundabout is British) that the cars are going the wrong way around the inner circle. But this gave me an idea: to think of the central circle as not a roundabout at all but a city block! Then it all makes much more sense, not only the direction but also why the inner circle doesn't have the right of way. Those cars aren't on a roundabout; they're going around a block that has a roundabout at each of its five intersections.
Nice title, but I think you know that this is actually very easy for self driving to accomplish. It has none of the difficulties like poor road markings, junctions, multiple lanes, managing other traffic, pedestrians, cyclists. I'd say this is like a 3/10 in terms of difficult roads for self driving to navigate
Wouldn't poor road markings indeed be a problem for autonomous cars? Teslas do navigate by them, don't they?
@@Pyriphlegeton thats exactly what he said
Yeah, what makes the Tail of the Dragon dangerous is all the high-risk stuff humans do because we're impatient thrill-seekers, which the AI is not.
The last AI couldn’t handle it
tbh most of the issues with road markings is because of Americas poor urban planning rather than the teslas themselves, here in the uk we dont have shitty suburbia to upkeep so pretty much all of our roads that arent in the middle of the scottish highlands are well marked
Amazing to see Grey out in North Carolina/Tennessee. Love the smoky mountain range.
Loving this channel Mr Grey :)
That scraped the midline a lot, it's like the main reason for deadly accidents.
It probably wouldn't if there was oncoming traffic.
@@logitech4873 Probably and it wouldn't are 2 seperate things
@@havtor007 Not in my sentence. The FSD software isn't so rigid as to just follow the same path no matter what - it'll adjust based on surrounding road and traffic.
I say "probably" because he didn't test it for us, but having seen a whole lot of FSD driving (AI DRIVR UA-cam channel) I'm pretty confident.
@@logitech4873 You'd think it wouldn't do that anyways since even the 4 cameras can't see beyond that turn.
@@theharbingerofconflation The car is very spatially conscious. It would definitely give space if a car came along.
Grey, I think this video isn’t entirely honest about the abilities of the car. After watching 15 or so minutes of the uncut footage, I saw a handful of times where if there was person in the left lane around a blind corner you could have seriously hurt them. I like and believe in self driving cars but if someone does this on a day with 20% more traffic they are going to get hurt or possibly worse.
It could be possible that the car takes riskier moves when there's no one in the other lane. If there was an oncoming car, then it'd probably be more precise in its movements at the cost of perhaps slowing down more
Right, but they key here is around the blind corners where people are going waayyyyy over the speed limit. If the Tesla is 75-50% in the left lane when it detects the vehicle around a blind corner it’s already too late. The censors can’t detect moving objects that are around corners.
@@seanthesheep It's literally reckless driving on this road. The reason it's known to be so dangerous is because people think this is okay.
To say nothing of the fact that a beta test for a system like this is being conducted in open public, where no one else has consented to said test.
Regardless, to call something like this "Full Self Driving" is completely dishonest and demonstrably dangerous.
Welcome to Tennessee, my home state! This was great! I must say though, watching the trip with the speed turned up like that had my anxiety through the roof, lmao
I saw my hometown on one of the road signs in the early montage; I geeked out quite a bit 😂
Great! Now try the same thing on a similarly curvy road where the road markings are covered by snow.
Or leaves
This was fun so I gave it a like, but yeah I'm with the other commenters here. This seems like a pretty soft ball task for the autopilot to handle, and it still seems to have drifted lanes a lot
And there was not even traffic
@@carholic-sz3qv apparently it drifted lanes intentionally because there was no traffic detected
@@jamesrosewell9081 with more traffic on that tight bendy road it would have malfunctioned everytime.
@@jamesrosewell9081 Aren't the programmers aware of the existence of blind turns? It may be better at detecting oncoming traffic than humans, but that still doesn't mean it should assume that it's not there.
@@td1559 this and more is why I don't trust tesla. It's proprietary software nobody can inspect, and it has and will get people killed.
this was hypnotic, and I'm really impressed how you made a story about it! I'm very impressed with the Tesla FSD
~Trav
Such a beautiful scenery. I want to go there now
An interesting question: were there any times where, if there had been oncoming traffic, you would've disengaged, but you decided not to because there was an empty road? (for example;, during those left turns close to the line?)
I drive a SDB Tesla model 3 and the car usually adjusts when seeing an incoming car on a 2 lane highway like that. It's scary AF but it should be ok
@@DrewCNewOrleans on a normal highway the car could see the oncoming vehicle from further away than on these tree lined tight corners. But the computer's reaction times are much faster than human once it can see the obstacle so maybe it's fine.
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 Computer may react faster but they don't see as well as humans do.
A human can see a car coming through foliage but the computer might only react when it clearly sees the oncoming car.
Also, the oncoming car might also be going over the lines and the computer will react "safely" (read, not make any sudden adjustments because it's programmed not to) and a collision will be inevitable.
A human might react properly (turn sharply) and might see the danger coming through leaves and such.
But overall, humans are really really bad at driving too. Computers CAN do it better.
The car sees better than humans because the computer can use algorithms to increase visibility. So for example it can look at many frames over time that have bits of a car that a human or computer wouldn’t see and fold them together into a picture. There are videos of FSD cars seeing things that you don’t see even if you watch the video over and over again.
That's a joke, the awareness is different but there are plenty of thing a human can see that AP cannot. Not understanding that the photographer's car was well off the road is an obvious example.
It's important to note that new beta updates have come out since this video was recorded. Living in Western NC, curves have improved substantially in the last few updates, all of which came out after this video.
They fixed the roads that fast? :o
It's ridiculous that this software is in BETA and is being used by average consumers to control 2 ton death machines.
@@thischannelhasnocontent8629 Not at all. Beta just means that it's not the final product. It doesn't mean that the features that are there aren't complete or safe
@@Excludos I can tell by observing that the features that are there are demonstrably NOT safe.
@@thischannelhasnocontent8629 i can tell by owning a Tesla that they are pretty safe
Smile for the camera. 5:48
damit cgp grey i always forget how much i love your content because you don't upload enough.
I wonder how it would handle the road being covered by leaves
It depends so heavily on road markings that I doubt it could work without them
Then there's the issue of different countries using radically different road markings. New Zealand, for example, has (or had last I had reason to look outside of the city I live in) many roads that have a single dashed white line down the middle and... that's it.
Where I live all the trees are dropping their leaves right now, and many of the curbs and outer lines are covered. No problems with FSD Beta so far.
@@DontThinkSo11 tbh these kinds of cars should just compile user data on the position of their cars on the street and then determine where it should by off GPS. If its accurate ofc
Humans typically also depend a lot on road markings
@@tank7474 I don't think GPS would be accurate enough, especially when there's interference from storms or nearby buildings/trees/other traffic/etc. Plus it wouldn't be able to instantly adapt to changing road conditions, like new construction or debris on the road or whatnot. If it can be made to work, it's much more flexible and safer to observe the surroundings real-time and decide what to do.
My impression from watching people trying it out is that so far, auto pilot works pretty well in every situation where you don't need it - clear roads, no potholes, lines well painted, no rain/fog/snow/etc.
The only thing I've driven personally is a 2021 Toyota Camry Hybrid with all the driver assist. My take-away from that is that driver assist is super irritating, and kind of dangerous. Multiple times it tried to keep me in the lane on a lonely back road when I was trying to swerve to avoid a raccoon or something. Once I was able to strong-arm it into missing the raccoon, the other time I had to emergency brake, in a situation where it would have been a quick sharp swerve in a normal car. This time of year when I'm frequently out at Deer-O-Clock, there's no way in hell I will drive with the car able to influence the steering wheel.
Depends on definition of when you need it. Driving along a two lane road behind some slowpoke with no chance to overtake safely? Drive in stop-and-go traffic? That's my use case and even the current normal AP works fine in these situations. Motorway at night in the rain? Frequently drives better than I could myself, since the lane markings further away are hiding in the glare and reflections off the wet road and the closer ones are too close to react to curves in time.
The rest of the driving situations, I don't trust it yet. But for the situations above, just great. Takes a lot of the strain of driving in fairly normal situations.
The emergency lane-keeping function will startle you but is easily overpowered.
I have the FSD Beta on my Tesla, and it also likes to touch the yellow line on left turns. It's not a big deal when there's no oncoming traffic, but you can bet that I'm looking far down the road, just like Grey in the video.
Great work Thank you
Unbeknownst to Grey, Winter only made it because he named her and gave her positive reinforcement. There is no logical reason for this, but you know it in your hearts to be true.
THAT was one of America's deadliest roads?! Man, here in England, that just looked like some backroads in the Surrey hills!
It's not the road itself that's dangerous, it's actually a very nice road to drive on. It's all the thrill seekers who push their limits that make it deadly. I remember reading once about a rider who lay in one of the dips alongside the road for a couple days before someone finally found him.
trust me we have wayyy worse lmao, it's just this gets a higher total
Deadliest as in most amount of people who die there. There's plenty of half-paven single wide mountain roads here, but as far as people actually dying this is the highest.
Thought I was slick looking frame by frame during the snapshots at 5:54. Trying to catch a glimpse of Grey in the flesh. I guess I did in almost an easter egg sort of way.
About being closer to the yellow line than the white. That is the right call. As a professional driver we are taught to "hog the road". Even tractor trailer drivers don't want to play my favorite game, "Let's kiss mirrors".
i love how theres just tons more of motorcyles than cars because we love corners more than anything
I love how "super dangerous" US roads just look like your average rural UK road.
I appreciate how self driving cars are an exciting new technology, but fundamentally Grey, society's overdependence on cars (self driving, electric or otherwise) is inefficient, costly and environmentally harmful. Sustainable transit like cycling, trains and trams must be widely accepted by society if we are to end traffic and find a climate solution.
Love your videos Grey
It's peak car culture to own a car that you don't want to drive
The phrase "Car Culture" bugs me so much because it sounds like victim blaming. "Car Culture" is downstream of urban planning and the sheer size of the States. It's not as if everybody is just infatuated with a bad idea. Cars are just physically necessary in the vast majority of the US, and in the cities where they _should_ be rare, the urban planners did everything inside out and backwards. It'll take a hundred years to undo, and the incentives just aren't there to fix it.
@@crackedemerald4930 if you own a 1/1 Ferrari and plan to sell it at auction sure
@@tony_5156 at that point it's just an art piece that can drive
That was very stressful, man! I cursed you every time a car drove past during the time lapses.
Also great video.
Thanks for making this video
This road is literally in pristine condition, great visibility, etc. And like other have pointed out, there are times it can barely handle even that. Come on man.
The thing that really peeves me about self driving cars is how hyped people are about them, even though they only hope to solve one or two issues that cars have; The loss of productive and leisure time, and the unreliable safety record of humans. But cars and their infrastructure are still quite expensive, cars are energy and space inefficient, loud (tire noise counts), scary to be around, and very weather dependent.
Aren't all of the problems being worked on in tandem anyway? The existence of one that's more hype-causing to the average person isn't really harming the efforts put into other stuff. Plus, once this is completed, it'll be one less factor for the solvers of the other problems to consider.
Robotaxis will mean fewer cars, much less expense, and huge swaths of land opened up because there will be many fewer parking lots and driveways/garages. The size of cars will shrink because most drives are for one person. Electricity will be minimal because they’ll be so small and probably have built in solar. Transportation will be very cheap, much cheaper than owning a car, and low income people will be able to move around freely without hours long public transportation that keeps them away from their children.
👌
Ummmm are you saying that solving these two issues is a small feet??? Millions of people die in car accidents every year. Also the idea around full self driving is that when cars truly are full self driving, there will be less cars total. Today, a car spends 95% of it's life sitting in a parking lot, when they are self driving, it can be shared and be in use at least 50% of it's life. Check out Zack and Jessy's self driving future episode.
The thing that peeves me bout Full Self Driving cars is that they aren't at all Full Self Driving.
Great video, as always(:
you can just sense his level of excitement in the start
0:35 You can't just whip out those sunglasses and not let us see you wearing them. Such a tease.
I love how transparently excited Grey is to drive a Tesla in dangerous circumstances again
It's been a while, but Grey is back in the driving seat of a car that's driving itself.
"Dangerous circumstances"
I have taken multiple motorcycle trips to the Dragon. Can confirm it’s very dangerous at other than the posted 20 - 35 mph speed limit. I saw a tiny 2 or 3 inch diameter tree being the only thing keeping a sports car from tumbling down a 100 ft. drop.
I just love how excited he is
Damn it clearly went over the solid yellow multiple times. And watching the overhead display on the dash shows the car was fully aware of where the yellow line was, yet it still decided to cut the corners. I wonder if this is because the self driving models were trained by Tesla drivers and it learned bad habits.
I know it's still in beta but yeesh for how long Tesla has been training its autopilot you'd think it could at least stay within some clearly marked lines by now
It's OK to cross the yellow line on vary narrow roads if you are going slow, as long as you can move over instantly... it's a little bit safer because then you have some space to work with if any tires slip a bit. Now on the Dragon it's a bit of a special case where going over that line is frowned on but most of the fast drivers still edge onto it anyway for a split second.
@@kigiphoto638 It absolutely is not okay to cross the double yellow lines on this road. That is why it's known for being so dangerous because people think this type of driving is okay. People die here every year thinking it's okay to cross the double yellow line. If you even touch the line and a cop sees you you'll get pulled over.
@@LoganLeGrand And yet if you actually drive there you'll see it happen all the time. So it's not like the Tesla is doing anything unusual by slightly crossing over, plus it can react faster than a human driver and move over... watch the video again, it reacts perfectly well to oncoming traffic (see oncoming truck at around 4:21, Tesla moves over just fine).
@@kigiphoto638 You're arguing that it is okay because people do it all the time on this road where there are the more traffic deaths per mile than anywhere else in the US?
@@dosadoodle A road that stacks up accidents like cord wood. Totally unacceptable.
That road is nothing, looks incredibly safe and the lines are painted perfectly. There are hundreds of BC roads that are windier more treacherous and more beautiful
Even highways in BC are scarier than that in places! Let alone the little side roads
The nearest crossroad to my childhood home was made of dirt with no markings at all. Take that Tesla ;)
Or in the US. Just because a road is the "most dangerous" by some metric doesn't mean it's the most extreme in any other metric.
Imagine bragging about a road
@@thedeviantguy I take pride in the fact that BC has shittier roads than the states. We just do it worse and that’s what makes it home 😄
Me word the Smokies are beautiful in the fall. And every other time... But especially in the fall.
Well done Winter!!