wow, the effort you put into your videos is amazing. They has a lot of information, presented in a overall very good way! I appreciate it. Please don't stop making them!
I loooved my dual Pentium II 400 (+ RIVA TNT2 Pro) system from back in the day. :D That thing felt like a beast. Bought the parts from a computer show after having saved up a bit at my first full time job. It was my very first "modern"/"high end" computer. All of my computers before that were put together from scavenged parts. (Like the 83mhz Pentium overdrive system I was upgrading from).
I just checked my retro computer parts storage, apparently I have one of those first MMX 233 Slot 1 processors! Also a 266, 2 400MHz processors and a couple of Slotket adaptors. I may have to build another DOS machine this weekend :)
It*s been 2001 fir when Harry Potter got out i got the first pc Pentium 2 with 32 mb grafic and 64 mb mem and i think 333 mghz i played Wolfestain Return To Castle , Age of Empires 2 Tarzan Bonkheads Crock men i love still the Pentium 2 i still have a more then a few 386 486 pentium 1 sokcet 7 and all the above the dual core 3.2 with 6 gigs DDR2 and 4 gb Grafic DDR5 but i still love retro gaming the most probaly becouse i grow UP with these pc . Greeting from Serbia Ivan 1993 .
I have a computer with a PII 266 stashed away in our "shed" somewhere. Thing is all my games will run on my modern PC, I have a second partition on my hard drive with Windows XP installed for the stuff that won't run on Windows 7, and I use DOSbox to play old DOS games so I'm all set that way.
Yeah, V-Rally is running as it should. That game was more like an arcade game, unlike the the rival game (Colin McRae Rally) which was more of a simulator. V-Rally died on the third sequel, while CMR lasted until Dirt, then they changed the name to only Dirt, because of the death of Colin McRae. Great Video Cheers mate
Actually, I would be curious to see how the K6-III+ at 500/550/600 stacks up against the various slot 1 options. As I understood it, the K6-III+/600 could trade blows pretty well with a PII/400 but got stomped by a PIII/450, but it's been a long time since I looked.
The only Pentium II that runs at 266 mhz is the Kalamath and only exists in the 66 fsb. He could, however, pick a Descuchutes and underclock it to run at 266
The ASUS P2B-B Slot1 motherboard board is required and take ECC Registered RAM also why not add to that and ATI AIO Wonder Card with built in UHF/VHF tuner.
I have a 266 but I'm upgrading to a 400 so I can play Army Men Sarge's Heroes. I have really good DOS compatibility rn, this upgrade shouldn't affect that, right?
are you sure about the absolute need for an ISA sound card for FM synth? memory serves the Yamaha XG cards with the YMF724F were some of the best OPL3 cards available for PCI-based FM synth in older titles.
Yes, but an ISA Sound Blaster is still better than the best PCI card in terms of DOS compatibility. And the Yamaha cards are weaker under Windows, so it's always a compromise.
All of these builds that I could do myself...if I didn't have CPU cooler fans+PSU dying left an right. Edit: BTW, is it sacrilege to drill the heatink+case of a PII 233? Its pins and heatink are that badly corroded that I can't remove it otherwise-and its fan has seized.
I've mucked around quite a bit with RertoArch, I think it supports it as a core. But I do so much stuff with DOS, so when I use RetroArch it's usually SNES or PSX :)
In the 100mhz overclock test, did you use 100mhz SDRAM or did you use the older 66mhz ones? To truly tap on the performance boost of 100mhz FSB on a similar clock speed you need to have the ram speed to match it.
Huh, So moving from 66 to 100mhz of FSB with a similar CPU clock speed really give you that little of a performance boost? Now I'm really curios to see if the situation repeats itself with other chipsets...
Well remember this older CPU, 486 DX 50 vs 486 DX2 66? The DX 50 has a much faster FSB, but the higher internal clock of the 66 still puts it ahead. It could just be that this CPU is too slow for the memory bandwidth to be an issue.
hello, maybe you can help me. I managed to find an old pentium 2 in storage recently, but cannot identify which one it is, as the product number on it is yielding no results, is it possible to figure this out without finding a slot 1 motherboard to test it?
That looks very odd. The only CPUs that don't show the model number at the top when you're using a custom cooler are the Celerons. They should be easy to open though.
I did have a 266 MHz pentium 2 on an Intel SE440BX motherboard with 128MB of RAM. It was a great upgrade over my 166 MHz pentium machine, about twice as fast, and it was the machine to have to play games like Quake 2 or Hexen 2, or some other games I don't remember. I had a QDI AGP graphics card with the Rendition Vérité V2200 with 4MB and a 3DFx Voodoo2 with 12MB in it. It lasted me quite a while, until I upgraded to a 450 MHz pentium3, with 256MB PC100 SDRAM and an AGP nvidia TNT2 Ultra with 32MB.
I have some Pentium 3 processors in Slot version. If you are intrested in one and you live in germany i can find out the specs and maybe send you one if you want. But i could not test them until now. So i dont know if they will work
It would be interesting to see this CPU running on an i440FX (PCI/EDO DRAM, 66MHz - originally a PPro chipset and what the Pentium II launched with) or i440LX (Intel's first AGP implementation, SDRAM, 66MHz FSB only) like initial buyers of the Pentium II 266MHz used and see how it compares to the legendary BX in performance.
I got my hands on a ABIT AB-BH6 motherboard and a Pentium 2 266mhz with a Voodoo 3 16mb 3500 tv card and its realy awesome for retro gaming. Maybe uppgrade the processor later on to a 400-450mhz :-) I got the Voodoo 3 for free as a bet if i could be quiet over a gaming session with my friends over 10min :-P
great work i would like a video about bottlenecks on old gpus like ati rage fury 128 32mb, or tnt, tnt2, tested on celerons 400, p2, p3, amd, etc, p4, to see how much better they perform on newer cpus. i remember using my ati rage fury on my crap celeron 400, then on a p3 700 i think, and wow, it was shocking
Man that reminds me. I started this GPU review project ages ago, basically all the recent GPU reviews, they are bench-marked on a fast P4 to see what they can do. I plan on bringing this back to life as I got side-tracked which happens a lot. Cards you can check out so far are the TNT2, Voodoo 3, Rage 128 Pro, Savage 4 and Matrox G400. I should put them into a playlist one day.
mauricio chacon That is a great topic... I get a massive bottleneck with TNT2 M64 PCI and a K6-2 550 clocked at 525 for a 99Mhz FSB as the motherboard doesn't support any higher combination of multiplier x FSB... Tried the same card on an AM2 Sempron mobo and the difference was massive. I think that since this Compaq mobo uses an ISA riser for the PCI slots that could be the problem.
The K6-2 is an awesome CPU but it quickly runs out of steam. Over the next weeks / months we will get a good idea of what it takes to run some of the more demanding games :)
GTA 2 runs a lot smoother on my pentium 200 mmx with voodoo 2 card, why is that? Occasional slow downs during explosions, but that's it, plays perfect most of the time.
Probably because I have the original CD, and he has free to download version, which should be optimised to run better on newer systems, not the old ones.
I have dual slot 1 board from gigabyte. but only 1 350mhz pentium 2 (or 3 not sure) cpu. you can check my videos, last time i used that board was like 7 years ago, when I tried to install Windows 7 on it. and it did ran well.
I have collectors edition Grand theft auto because i wanted cd version. i have download free version in past. i use to have Pentium II later i got Pentium 4
pentium II is just so mehhhh all around. I always find myself upgrading a Pentium II box to a Pentium III. It's like it's too fast to be a wicked DOS system but it's too slow for windows 98 really.. unless you have a GPU with especially light drivers >.>
wait until you get to slot1 Pentium III 500 vs Pentium2 450 vs socket 370 black celeron range :P if not for shipping cost i could donate those edit corection i have right now only 2 celerons 366, 2 pentium 2 400 and a slot >socket adapter without a chip, but if i have to guess, the rest is at my work museum, all the way to p3 1400
Technically he could get a slot 1 Pentium III by simply taking a Celeron 333A, and severing/covering contact B21. Also, I recommend that you try for a motherboard if you ever do benchmarks of them yourself, such as the Jetway 994AN series for the best all-round compatibility+fair testin. Mine before its caps failed (PSU went rogue) could take a Covington Celeron, all the way up to a Pentium III 1GHz @1.2GHz.
i have stashed away two ecs boards for s370 both tualatin ready one is some kind of sis ddr chipset with capability of runninh 2gb of ddr266 at cl2 the other is some via variant with 1,5gb of sdr 133 cl3, but i clocked it at 150mhz buss both bards can run tualatin core clocked up to 1,7ghz by oc really the last generation og p3 :] i have no idea what compatybility those two systems have
Why are there donate links in your description? What are you doing, dude? This goes against the entire spirit of the internet, especially in the days these games came out. NONE of the Doom maps released by regular people had donate links or begging in them. None of the Gamefaqs written had donates and self promotion. Yet in 2021, everyone has their hand out. Knock it off.
wow, the effort you put into your videos is amazing. They has a lot of information, presented in a overall very good way! I appreciate it. Please don't stop making them!
Your videos can really bring back those long lost memories and details, Phil! Thank you so much for that! ;)
Thanks!
350nm ? that's like a guy carving out the processor on a large slab with a hammer and chisel!
I loooved my dual Pentium II 400 (+ RIVA TNT2 Pro) system from back in the day. :D That thing felt like a beast. Bought the parts from a computer show after having saved up a bit at my first full time job. It was my very first "modern"/"high end" computer. All of my computers before that were put together from scavenged parts. (Like the 83mhz Pentium overdrive system I was upgrading from).
I just checked my retro computer parts storage, apparently I have one of those first MMX 233 Slot 1 processors!
Also a 266, 2 400MHz processors and a couple of Slotket adaptors. I may have to build another DOS machine this weekend :)
Love this stuff! Thank you for the awesome videos!
It*s been 2001 fir when Harry Potter got out i got the first pc Pentium 2 with 32 mb grafic and 64 mb mem and i think 333 mghz i played Wolfestain Return To Castle , Age of Empires 2 Tarzan Bonkheads Crock men i love still the Pentium 2 i still have a more then a few 386 486 pentium 1 sokcet 7 and all the above the dual core 3.2 with 6 gigs DDR2 and 4 gb Grafic DDR5 but i still love retro gaming the most probaly becouse i grow UP with these pc . Greeting from Serbia Ivan 1993 .
I still have a few of these at various speeds in my collection
they were great in their day. Cool Video Thanks Phil.
I have a computer with a PII 266 stashed away in our "shed" somewhere. Thing is all my games will run on my modern PC, I have a second partition on my hard drive with Windows XP installed for the stuff that won't run on Windows 7, and I use DOSbox to play old DOS games so I'm all set that way.
Yeah, V-Rally is running as it should. That game was more like an arcade game, unlike the the rival game (Colin McRae Rally) which was more of a simulator. V-Rally died on the third sequel, while CMR lasted until Dirt, then they changed the name to only Dirt, because of the death of Colin McRae.
Great Video
Cheers mate
Ok thanks good to know. It drives a bit hectic and took me a while to adjust a little bit. I still made lots of errors :D
Pentium II is 250nm, Ryzen 9 now is 7nm soon Intel and AMD will use 5nm and less, nice progress.
Actually, I would be curious to see how the K6-III+ at 500/550/600 stacks up against the various slot 1 options. As I understood it, the K6-III+/600 could trade blows pretty well with a PII/400 but got stomped by a PIII/450, but it's been a long time since I looked.
Good idea, noted!
Are you going to make a video for the Celeron 300A?
OMG it's Scott Maslen from Eastenders and The Bill.
Can you compared the results of K6-2 266 vs Pii 266 @ both at 100mhz x3 on next video ? Thanks
The only Pentium II that runs at 266 mhz is the Kalamath and only exists in the 66 fsb. He could, however, pick a Descuchutes and underclock it to run at 266
Good idea, I'll see what I can do.
Hey Phil thanks for showing me that V-Rally 2 game.That's one that I don't have in my vintage PC Games collection.
The ASUS P2B-B Slot1 motherboard board is required and take ECC Registered RAM also why not add to that and ATI AIO Wonder Card with built in UHF/VHF tuner.
I just found a Pentium 2 full system for sale at 10 Euros.
Wish me luck, i intend of building a Dos Gaming System.
I'm actually looking at slot 1 instead of super socket 7 for my ultimate retro build.
I have a 266 but I'm upgrading to a 400 so I can play Army Men Sarge's Heroes. I have really good DOS compatibility rn, this upgrade shouldn't affect that, right?
Is there any review on AMD Slot A setup... i wanna see one... i did own one very long time ago... Plz make one...
are you sure about the absolute need for an ISA sound card for FM synth? memory serves the Yamaha XG cards with the YMF724F were some of the best OPL3 cards available for PCI-based FM synth in older titles.
Yes, but an ISA Sound Blaster is still better than the best PCI card in terms of DOS compatibility. And the Yamaha cards are weaker under Windows, so it's always a compromise.
my first processor was a PII 233mhz MMX. awesome stuff.
Awesome work!
All of these builds that I could do myself...if I didn't have CPU cooler fans+PSU dying left an right.
Edit: BTW, is it sacrilege to drill the heatink+case of a PII 233? Its pins and heatink are that badly corroded that I can't remove it otherwise-and its fan has seized.
What test bench rig do you use?
Does it get Runtime Error 200 on older games like Tyrian?
PII 266 was in my first PC :D
have you ever tested the RetroPie with dosbox to create an dos gaming console?
I've mucked around quite a bit with RertoArch, I think it supports it as a core. But I do so much stuff with DOS, so when I use RetroArch it's usually SNES or PSX :)
My first very own PC had an PII 266. Good times ...
What's that PCI card with the red and green buttons in the back?
Like power, reset, and turbo buttons, but at the back of the case?
Yes that's it :)
In the 100mhz overclock test, did you use 100mhz SDRAM or did you use the older 66mhz ones?
To truly tap on the performance boost of 100mhz FSB on a similar clock speed you need to have the ram speed to match it.
It's the same PC133 stick I used in the last few videos :) So yes, it ran at 100 MHz.
Huh, So moving from 66 to 100mhz of FSB with a similar CPU clock speed really give you that little of a performance boost? Now I'm really curios to see if the situation repeats itself with other chipsets...
Well remember this older CPU, 486 DX 50 vs 486 DX2 66? The DX 50 has a much faster FSB, but the higher internal clock of the 66 still puts it ahead. It could just be that this CPU is too slow for the memory bandwidth to be an issue.
8:07 that is the raw acceleration of T&L. If a Voodoo would have done graphics at about 50% of this.
Would like to see some slot 1 celerons in your tests. Not everyone had money to buy Pentiums back then
Good idea, noted!
I still own my PII 266 Slot 1 since back then (around 1998). :) AFAIR it's a Klamath, need to check that.
I'm surprised the 100MHz FSB didn' make a big impact in performance.
Can you compared the results: Celeron300A (Slot1) vs same Celeron300A @450MHz? Pin No. 21 trick if mine memory is ok :) and True PII450MHz?
hello, maybe you can help me. I managed to find an old pentium 2 in storage recently, but cannot identify which one it is, as the product number on it is yielding no results, is it possible to figure this out without finding a slot 1 motherboard to test it?
Take a photo please of the top of the CPU.
I had to take two pictures to get a good quality shot, and uploaded them to mega here: mega.nz/#F!VgAS2DqB!qqjORoqDrcpGGOeLhaj_wg
That looks very odd. The only CPUs that don't show the model number at the top when you're using a custom cooler are the Celerons. They should be easy to open though.
thats kinda weird, given its pentium 2 branding, but hey, its also kinda cool. ill crack it open one of these days.
Slot 1 was a beast... I still own my DELL XPS r450 (pentium 2 450 from 1997/98)
I did have a 266 MHz pentium 2 on an Intel SE440BX motherboard with 128MB of RAM. It was a great upgrade over my 166 MHz pentium machine, about twice as fast, and it was the machine to have to play games like Quake 2 or Hexen 2, or some other games I don't remember. I had a QDI AGP graphics card with the Rendition Vérité V2200 with 4MB and a 3DFx Voodoo2 with 12MB in it.
It lasted me quite a while, until I upgraded to a 450 MHz pentium3, with 256MB PC100 SDRAM and an AGP nvidia TNT2 Ultra with 32MB.
9:13 ahhh sweet B-Roll :)
Amazing video ! Great job !
Which version DOS are you using ? 6.22 or 7.11 or FreeDos ?
MS-DOS mode of Windows 98, so that's 7.1. I have made a video about how easy it is to setup!
i have a deschutes that's unlocked multiplier. You should specify that in the video info that some DO exist just not the 233mhz model..
D0? What do you mean?
I have some Pentium 3 processors in Slot version. If you are intrested in one and you live in germany i can find out the specs and maybe send you one if you want. But i could not test them until now. So i dont know if they will work
Dom He lives in Australia.
It would be interesting to see this CPU running on an i440FX (PCI/EDO DRAM, 66MHz - originally a PPro chipset and what the Pentium II launched with) or i440LX (Intel's first AGP implementation, SDRAM, 66MHz FSB only) like initial buyers of the Pentium II 266MHz used and see how it compares to the legendary BX in performance.
Hi Phil, i have supersocket7-pentium_mmx_200, and i have slot1-pentium2/3-300/450. Do you want play multiplayer games?
I don't really play games these days...
Well, if there is a desire someday - then I will play with pleasure!
How much do you go in the future? (I'm sorry for bad english)
Coookie about 20 years.
Okay
I got my hands on a ABIT AB-BH6 motherboard and a Pentium 2 266mhz with a Voodoo 3 16mb 3500 tv card and its realy awesome for retro gaming. Maybe uppgrade the processor later on to a 400-450mhz :-)
I got the Voodoo 3 for free as a bet if i could be quiet over a gaming session with my friends over 10min :-P
where do you get GTA2 for free?
The released it as a free download ages ago.
+PhilsComputerLab yeah, and took it away a few years ago as well. thats why i was curious if it was out again.
great work
i would like a video about bottlenecks on old gpus like ati rage fury 128 32mb, or tnt, tnt2, tested on celerons 400, p2, p3, amd, etc, p4, to see how much better they perform on newer cpus. i remember using my ati rage fury on my crap celeron 400, then on a p3 700 i think, and wow, it was shocking
Man that reminds me. I started this GPU review project ages ago, basically all the recent GPU reviews, they are bench-marked on a fast P4 to see what they can do. I plan on bringing this back to life as I got side-tracked which happens a lot. Cards you can check out so far are the TNT2, Voodoo 3, Rage 128 Pro, Savage 4 and Matrox G400. I should put them into a playlist one day.
mauricio chacon That is a great topic... I get a massive bottleneck with TNT2 M64 PCI and a K6-2 550 clocked at 525 for a 99Mhz FSB as the motherboard doesn't support any higher combination of multiplier x FSB... Tried the same card on an AM2 Sempron mobo and the difference was massive. I think that since this Compaq mobo uses an ISA riser for the PCI slots that could be the problem.
The K6-2 is an awesome CPU but it quickly runs out of steam. Over the next weeks / months we will get a good idea of what it takes to run some of the more demanding games :)
cool, love your vids, thanks a lot
Monkey Island has no speed limit if you play it with pc speaker or mt-32.
GTA 2 runs a lot smoother on my pentium 200 mmx with voodoo 2 card, why is that?
Occasional slow downs during explosions, but that's it, plays perfect most of the time.
Yeah, it seems odd. V-Sync issues perhaps?
Probably because I have the original CD, and he has free to download version, which should be optimised to run better on newer systems, not the old ones.
It's running at 1024 x 768 all details maxed out, maybe that explains it.
the idea of someone buying a 266mhz CPU and than overclocks it sounds surreal :))
You should benchmark this PII against the latest K6-III 450 mhz super socket 7 ;)
I like that idea!
you should see how these games run under a pentium 4
I have dual slot 1 board from gigabyte. but only 1 350mhz pentium 2 (or 3 not sure) cpu. you can check my videos, last time i used that board was like 7 years ago, when I tried to install Windows 7 on it. and it did ran well.
I have collectors edition Grand theft auto because i wanted cd version. i have download free version in past. i use to have
Pentium II later i got Pentium 4
pentium II is just so mehhhh all around. I always find myself upgrading a Pentium II box to a Pentium III. It's like it's too fast to be a wicked DOS system but it's too slow for windows 98 really.. unless you have a GPU with especially light drivers >.>
You are right! CPU performance just exploded at that period, racing to 1 GHz.
GTA 2 is best played on an 3Dfx Voodoo.
wait until you get to slot1 Pentium III 500 vs Pentium2 450 vs socket 370 black celeron range :P
if not for shipping cost i could donate those
edit
corection i have right now only 2 celerons 366, 2 pentium 2 400 and a slot >socket adapter without a chip, but if i have to guess, the rest is at my work museum, all the way to p3 1400
Technically he could get a slot 1 Pentium III by simply taking a Celeron 333A, and severing/covering contact B21. Also, I recommend that you try for a motherboard if you ever do benchmarks of them yourself, such as the Jetway 994AN series for the best all-round compatibility+fair testin. Mine before its caps failed (PSU went rogue) could take a Covington Celeron, all the way up to a Pentium III 1GHz @1.2GHz.
i have stashed away two ecs boards for s370 both tualatin ready
one is some kind of sis ddr chipset with capability of runninh 2gb of ddr266 at cl2 the other is some via variant with 1,5gb of sdr 133 cl3, but i clocked it at 150mhz buss
both bards can run tualatin core clocked up to 1,7ghz by oc
really the last generation og p3 :] i have no idea what compatybility those two systems have
Why are there donate links in your description? What are you doing, dude? This goes against the entire spirit of the internet, especially in the days these games came out. NONE of the Doom maps released by regular people had donate links or begging in them. None of the Gamefaqs written had donates and self promotion. Yet in 2021, everyone has their hand out. Knock it off.
45 seconds ago , nice