Why WoW Raiding is So Frustrating
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Earlier today I reacted to an Asmongold video about WoW raiding, and I wanted to express my own thoughts on the matter.
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One thing I love about FFXIV is how they do their spell animations. They have a visual indication of where the spell is going to land, and once that is gone the spell animation happens. You can move out of the indication and move back when the effect happens. Also you can reduce and remove other players spell effects.
The thing I find a bit fucked up is that having these add-ons be all legal kinda frees Blizzard to not make many upgrades to their UI, and just outsource that responsibility to the modders. There's a good number of features in the XIV UI that people used to have to use add-ons for and are now just... native to the game. Because CBU3 knows if they're going to enforce their policy seriously, they _need_ to improve their UI with the things the players ask for from time to time.
Blizzard should outlaw ALL combat addons, but could leave many QoL addons in, if they don't decide to implement versions of them selves. They could have a small team dedicated to rate and decide which addons should be allowed in the game, that would be my dream scenario. It's not gonna happen, but it would be great for the game
After finishing the video they definitely need to add something to clearly display the radius of spells and actions in raids. I mean they already got more status bars than a fighter jet. Having something to show an attacks range of effect instead of just hoping your not in range would only help make it better.
Agreed. I very much rather look at a boss and react and judge what to do based on what the boss is doing, it's animations, it's audio, it's telegraphs etc... Rather than just staring at the UI non stop.
I never played WoW in my life, but i have an idea how works. However, I cannot understand the thing. If the Development team or the test team can't balance the fight they make who the F the doing the players? They release the fight as Beta for best players to try and figure out the problems? Why in final fantasy xiv team like 99% the fight are ready for every one on day one. I mean can someone tell me why Blizzard do that?? 🤔
FFXIV devs test the new stuff(Even ultimates) in house to make sure it is clearable even without addons
@@raevenent751 I thought wow raids were simulated based on gear score numbers through AI no?
Add-ons are considered the norm much like Bethesda games leaving it to modders to fix their stuff, so devs have gotten lazy and the community doesn't hold them accountable. Many WoW players are so used to it, they doesn't see it as bad design
For some reason people in WoW refuse to use the "essential spells only" option that hides a lot of unnecessary effects. Compare that to FF14 where most people start using that in their first few hours. Now yes, the devs should also try to do a better job with the clusterfuck that are raid fights sometimes but when I was playing my guild didnt really have this problem too much because we all had the aforementioned option toggled on, but for some reason most WoW players just refuse to use it.
IF it is for same reason I don't do it. Its my level of immersion. I want to see the whole fight. I want to see our spells and the bosses spells. As the edges of spells, you very quickly learn to "pixel" as i've seen it referred to as times, spells. This means you learn exactly where the spell ends and commit to memory so you don't have to move. This though comes with experience into the fight. However, I can see why some people would want that border.
swirlies need hard edges at the absolute minimum, and preferably they should be 3d so they stick out of the floor a little bit, preventing them from being consumed by more dramatic visual ground effects like death and decay/consecrate/sanguine etc. This is the biggest thing that FF14, GW2 and other MMOs do so much better than WoW, actually giving an indication of where threatening effects begin and end.
Every raid/dungeon encounter needs to have TWO contrasting thematic colours rather than one so we never have another red mechanics on red boss on red floor or green mechanics on green boss on green floor encounter ever again... Ironically, Amirdrassil does have two major colours, but the devs chose to make every boss stick with just the one. A positive zone and a negative zone should never be the exact same colour.
Finally, WoW needs internal consistency. WoW has, in theory, had a 'stack marker' icon for many years now. But many players still do not recognise it. It that because they're dumb? Well, a little bit, but at the same time I cannot blame them. To this day, the dev team's utilization of markers is wildly inconsistent. There are multiple 'stack up' mechanics in each of the three dragonflight raids that, for no good reason, do NOT use the 'universal' stack marker icon.
I believe the blurred edges of World of Warcraft's "swirlie" markers are 100% intentional and are a way to cover up network latency issues with regard to character position. WoW markers do not "snapshot" they hit you immediately, and so based on your ping, when your character is moving, the server could see you in the area of effect while you are out on your screen. Having unclear edges makes it uncertain for you the player whether you are in or out of the effect when you're standing on the edge, and so it makes you move further out to avoid the attack.
But they do look very ugly, that I'll give you.
I think something that final fantasy 14 does would be helpful. Allowing you to disable most other players effects. So you can see what your doing and you can see what the boss is doing. If there is a problem with animations being so chaotic they really need to tone it down or add some options to make the aoe ranges more clear
there is, its called "essential spells only" in graphics. but i agree more needs done to improve on it.
This isn't only issue in WoW, ground effects or bosses are.
Even better, go ROTMG. in rotmg you can adjust the opacity of other players and their spells and their pets. So you have complete control over what you see in that game.
I remember I had this problem in Legion mythic raiding and BfA I explained this exact thing about having issue seeing things ingame, and unfortunately I was attacked by others players by calling me bad or "get good" and bunch of stuff related to that.
I refuse to play WoW because of the add-ons. The fact that you have to worry about all that shit when the game should have the bear minimum to make things like raids work is ridiculous and the fact that so many WoW players defend this crap is even more ridiculous.
I always hated raids in general due to exactly this. Too much clutter on the screen, too much shit going on at once, and compiled with all the players bunching up around the boss, it’s nearly impossible to see what the boss is doing half the time. Also, that UI is so messy, how can anyone play with so much crap on the screen? It’s like they’re paying more attention to the meters and numbers than the actual fight itself. Guess they don’t need to, with deadly boss mobs screaming where to go and stand. More like bots than actual players, honestly.
Green healing circle on top of a green instant death mechanic lets go!
I don't think the devs can disable add-ons without causing uproar and I can't say I trust Blizzard to properly telegraph mechanics. But I agree it's a viscous cycle of devs against add-ons against devs against... So now you can't raid without add-ons even if you wanted to, which is a shame.
They can if they actually provided the features the addons provide in the actual game.
But this is a process that should a decade ago. From UI to boss mechanics, to... basically everything...
The fact that you needed to download like 2-3 addons just to get what was your best gear atm a couple expansions ago is just insanity.
I still use a few addons but Blizzard's new UI is suitable now. I stopped raiding in BFA and don't really miss it but I still do LFR now and then and quite frankly, I just follow the pack. It's jut too exhausting for this 54 year old body, I tried FFXIV several times and it is a good game but the anime looks of the characters is a turn off for me.
While I respect Rurukhans criticism. A lot of these top guilds go over board when it comes to WeakAuras. The average guild will just ask you to have DBM or Bigwigs for raid timers and a damage meter. That’s pretty much it
The average guild will ask you to install anything and everything that will give you an ingame advantage. More chill guilds is what you’re referencing, but they aren’t the average anymore.
@@RurikhanUnleashed Can confirm that its not the standard or average anymore.
@@RurikhanUnleashed I'm not really sure your own personal experiences cover the entire community though.
I don't play wow but i like watching(as i do other games I eithernot have time or the money to play), but the first example you showed is so bad. My MH partner even dims many possible effects to not be overwhelmed by them...and as with the Asmon fight it was inrecognizable what was happening...
Sadly I think that this is one of the issues are painfully grandfathered into the game. it should have been fixed 10 years ago, or at least a process to change it, but like many other things in WoW, Blizz decided to ignore until the camel's back broke.
Writing quality... content relevant longevity.. absolutely atrocious class balance, the very mechanics and their hyper-dependence on add-ons for the game to be playable are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to all the issues that have been festering since even Vanilla.
just curious if anyone brought up p3s to say FF messes up aswell xD
ye blizz one was always a mess and it seems its gotten worst (i quit in BFA)
nope no one brought it up, in fact you could argue that the cluster f which is shown in TOP example above have same issue, the difference is that FF is played most by debuffs, rather then visuals and WoW is played by WeakAuras(which is the same as the debuffs) hence visuals really don't matter that much in either cases imho, but I agree that WoW does it slightly worse, because devs know and rely on compensation from addons and weakauras. Again that is how I see it anyway.
That FF14 screen shot is worse visually with how the white spells are going off. There's so much unnecessary shit on both games.
23:00 Will never, EVER happen. Not in a million years.
play with the right people....fun times....play with the wrong people...toxic times
ngl omega protocol might be a bad example
even savage difficulty of that fight is such a cluster f 😂😂
people cheese the phase 2 of that fight in mount farms just because its just to hard to deal with the mechanics
No offense it's kinda dumb you *need* a Potion that darkens your screen to see the mechanics... when they could like, change how the Aoes are placed on the ground. Yes, I know FFXIV raiding have Orange Aoe markers on the ground, etc. But World of warcraft feels like it needs to obsurce the mechanics of their raiding with their beautiful scenery because it's the only thing that's going for them. The Art Department of WoW is 100% top of their game.
It should be a toggle option. Bright orange telegraphs for people who need it, option to turn that off for the more "immersive" experience.
@@RED_Theory038 That would be good but would WoW developers actually implement the feature?
FF14 devs usually design the stage to fit with boss mechanics. Giving hints on how to spread, where to stand, ect. I think that is one of the problems with WoW. I don't think they really take into consideration about the stage at all. They have the art team do their thing and the boss design team do theirs and then in the end they just mash them together with no communication of planning in between the two. Imo, it's extremely lazy and very mismanaged.
@@F34RDSoldier805 Agreed. It's quite asinine that they don't mix both teams its like both teams are against each other. Since that was the case in all honesty. Since we learned of the culture in Blizzard about being in different guilds, and competing against each other. So the Art Team is in one Guild and the Boss Design Team/Raid Creation Team is in another. lol
Elitist Jerks = Boss Design Team since Ion Hazzikotos is still apart of that guild. lol
@@ArmageddonEvil Its really funny because its clear that the boss designers are on a very high horse compared to the art department despite historically the art department(s) being the consistent good point of WoW.
When I see addons like this I just think "why not just install an addon that lets you automatically win the game?" Hell, why not just have a button that lets you navigate to your next quest marker without any user input? ;D
The raids are still hard even with addons, Everyone likes different visuals and u like the fact that you can customize it so you enjoy looking at it. It is a game after all and the whole point of games is to enjoy your experience.
Ff14 visibility isnt any better. Most wow players look at a ff14 raid and are like wtf is all this shit on the screen.
Except that is not what the point is.
WoW players that have never played FFXIV are never going to understand an ultimate fight because they have never played FFXIV.
FFXIV *players*, which Rukh is too, DO understand them without add-ons.
WoW cant telegraph mechanics to their players correctly and tahts why addons are a necessity.
I know its hard to understand but other MMOs are not just reskinned WoW. FFXIV has its own mechanics and telegraphing system that WoW players are never going to understand unless they actually play the game and immerse themselves in the gameplay.
As a former WoW player who raided and used all those addons, i'm thinking i wanna play WoW again for a second, but to install and configure the UI again, before i can really start again turns me heavily off.
i mean, XIV has great visibility in the mechanics, and even as a XIV player, i saw echo do DSR and i understood shit of what was going on, it is th bane of raiding MMO's, they have a lot going on at the same time for a spectator POV
Not gonna lie, i woudn't be able to see stuff on the ground with that ui aswell
It's frustrating because Blizz loves rewarding shit gameplay over good gameplay from others carrying 💯
Raiding is such a sweaty event lol always was such a rough unfun time
I have never played WoW, but, wow, that does not seem fun at all! 😂
I’d rather play WarFrame again before I ever do that, and I might do so after taking a year off when cross save returns.
Or, better yet, I can try to finish the last quarter or fifth of Tears of the Kingdom I left out at after 320 hours, or I could get Sunbreak already. 😝
Imagine actually having to learn a boss fight? Amirite fellas?
Doesn't WoW also give you a journal that tells you what each mechanic does anyway?
yes in a since, but blizz hides certain mythic raid mechs on purpose from the raid journal.
You picked the worst example TOP is definetly not readable for someone who never played the game or even new to the game, both games are bad at making good telegraphs, I can agree with you that its less agressive in ffxiv than wow since pretty much all wow raids had this issue since BFA but I can give you many raids in ffxiv that have similar issues and the recent one is P3S for example. What makes WoW fights ugly and unreadable is definitely the UI but If I show you my UI in FFXIV it will be the same cause I have similar UI in ffxiv and wow using the forbidden technologies.
What I wanna know is why fight designers always do these mistakes either picking the wrong color combinations or bad textures.
Actually, I feel like WoW raids had this problem for a lot longer than BFA, but I'm not in the know of that history. Though, the first raids that were released in WoW were probably the opposite since it was a 40-man zerg. lol
You having similar UI in FFXIV is kinda your problem, not the game's problem.
You just said WoW UI is ugly and unreadable but you use the same UI for FF14? Why?
You missed the point, the conversation is about telegraphs and the colors not the UI, the UI is just personal preference and I spoke about it cause its def something that makes WoW look bizarre for new players.@@thehurricane6767
Ugly but practical and its specially personal preference and habit@@kaly8329
I'm sorry, I play both WoW and FFXIV, to me both are unreadable and totally cluttered. But I really am not sorry for the 1% for whom this content is geared towards. They are the reason why we have have games getting always harder and harder.