Congrats on another milestone Ivan. I know you don't usually celebrate these round numbers but it's just amazing what you're doing. I've been following the journey since around day 900, so I guess just half the total time, but you've been a part of my day every day for what now seems like a long time. Thanks for your inspiration.
It's a weird movement. It's one of the most functional there is. At the same time; it has a terrible resistance curve, and the more you increase weight over 1.0x your bdw, the more hip dancing you're going to be doing even if you try not to. That or you just plain up stand more upright. I've seen a few videos of guys doing Pendlay rows with 3 plates. It's doable. But they're absolute 300lb tanks themselves.
^ this; but then again, the lengthened part of the movement matters more. That’s why I prefer T-bar rows for this kind of movement, they’re a bit more stable.
I'd say blending different exercises to fill in the gaps is more important than trying to isolate every muscle in bodybuilding. If I open up with barbell rows or deadlift, then doing some 45 hypers, curls, pullups (or lat pulldowns if greatly fatigued), face pulls. Then that'll fill in the gaps from my opening movement.
Yeh I think just doing all the planes of motion. Horizontal pull, vertical pull. Do a few exercises in those planes and you should get most of the muscles.
I got 90% of my back size and thickness from bent over rows😎 Once you get into the groove of the movement and get that deep stretch you'll feel amazing and on top of that it builds insane low back endurance in everyday life👍
I never train deadlift. I may test it once every year or 2, but I never train it. However I do TONS of rowing of different variations. My favourite is Cailer Woolam style rows, but on a 4.75.inch deficit. With that deficit and that style of row, my current best set is 148 kg for 11. A few weeks ago, I decided to see how much I could deadlift after a 45 minute session of that particular style of rowing, off of the same deficit. I went up from the 148 kg I do the rows with, all the way to 238.5 kg (that's all I can fit on my bar because I've made a lot of my own weights with concrete and they are thick). I was able to do 1 rep of deadlift off of that 4.75 inch deficit, after a hard row session, with that 238.5 kg. It was a huge struggle. It's not the greatest of numbers but it makes me wonder what I could get to if I actually trained deadlift for a while. I weigh 96 kg.
Machines obviously have their place but nothing beats deadlifts, weighted chin-ups and DB or barbell rows for back development. Those have been my staples for all the years I’ve trained and they have not disappointed.
I love bent over rows but I’ve been doing back movements that spare my lower back so I can save my back for squats and deadlifts. But it is such a money lift.
I haven’t barbell rowed 140 kg before, but I can confidently row 100kg for 12 reps, and i can say without a doubt that your deadlift shoots up without even training it. Rows are amazing for the erectors, bulletproofing your lower back, and just crazy strength gains. Even though technique is very important to any lift, i think that going balls to the freaking wall on barbell rows, putting on some insane ass weight, and rowing that sucker will easily translate into a strong back.
For me Barbell Rows are in a weird place, I consider them a great exercise but typically I never do them because they have too high recovery cost to me. I have limited amount of especially lower back recovery so either I do more Deadlifts & Deadlift Variations or Barbell Rows. And I almost always decide to rather do RDL / Snach Grip DL / Deficite DL / Stiff Leg Deadlift + Chest Supported Row variations over Barbell Rows. I am sure you could do Barbell Rows + Leg Curls instead and have similar effects but I would expect carryover to the DL to be worse. I guess Cailor is the proof that this isn't universally true, but it is always hard to look at outliers and try to apply that to people that don't have his proportions and genetics.
I remember cailler Wollam too. You are not exaggerating on his numbers. He was cheat rowing 500lbs. And deadlifting 900. I believe he weighed around 220.
I remember Cailor on Mark's channel...he was incredible at deadlift and rows...I'm sure he had the world record and he weighed 100 kg....I'm sure it was 950...lb...or 430kg...hook grip as well...and I'm sure it was 5 plate rows...so around the 500 lb mark..great athlete
You ever incorporate pull ups when training back? Probably one of the best bang for your buck back exercises. Especially when you start adding extra weight, can get crazy strong dping them.
I hardly doubt a squat would correlate well with a row, even an extreme cheat row would hardly activate the quads. The deadlift might track but that depends on the deadlift form of the individual (a sumo deadlifter would be disadvantaged rowing in that position for example). If you specify instead does the row correlate with romanian deadlifts or good mornings? You'd be almost spot on. I've rowed into the 140+ for reps before I was consistent with deadlifting 200kg
If you want to isolate and build muscle, do machines. If you want to get strong do barbell exercises. The top grip barbell row is the best damn exercise to get strong and build that back.
Whats the recovery/cost issue in your opinion? As someone who squats 3 times a week, and deadlifts two. I feel like I cannot afford the recovery cost it puts.
I can row 130kg for a set of 10. My deadlift max is 230kg. Low back pain/glute weakness is my limitation with deadlift. That being said I shrug those lockouts using my lats/traps
CHEST SUPPORTED ROWS BRO. Seriously. They are amazing. They let your low back rest whilst building the rest of it. Then when bent over rows feel good occasionally then go for it.
Hi, after years of training bro split my compound lifts are not where they should be I believe it’s because I have a very weak core I tried to do a front plank and struggled to reach 1 minute 😅 out of interest how long could you hold a plank for? It seems a good basic gauge of core strength, does anybody have a strong core and weak lifts is this possible haha
Hey Ivan, love your work. To me everything about your approach and interests seems to be more in line with olympic weightlifting than powerlifting - mobility, aesthetics of the lifts, athleticism etc. I know youve dabbled in the past, is there any particular reason youve never had the desire to fully commit to learning the snatch and clean&jerk?
I agree with you. I think Olympic weightlifting is the cooler sport. That’s where my love for squats came from. I guess the reason why I never went into it because I always felt building a monster squat and strength in general is a prerequisite to get elite in weightlifting. If I had a huge squat I’d be more keen to learn the technique of oly lifts. I feel I haven’t mastered the squat yet. That’s the first step in my mind.
A short while ago whilst training for Husafell Ivan I was barbell rowing 150kg and it was miserable. Not super strict but rowing it and at 50 years old. Massive carry over to deadlift.
@@aemilos888 Maybe once you get up to his level, but man, I get a lot out of it doing strict reps with 60-70-something kilos. Underhand is great for lats. Wide-grip and touching the bottom of the chest is great for upper back. I'm actually weaker there and it's something which I hope will really increase my performance in many things in the next bulk, as I bring my working weight up on that from 50 kg to maybe 70 in that timespan.
Been doing lots of Woolam rows lately, hoping to increase my deadlift. I suppose someone that could barbell row 140 for 10 would have a veryy strong deadlift
Its hard too say how the back operates and what makes some people stronger than others but there is a guy from Melbourne his on youtube Kevin Booey i dont know if he does dumbell rows never seen him doing any but he has hit a PB of 320kg deadlift and his not overly big either
Yeh I know him. Interesting to hear that. I bet he could row a lot. But if he never used rows to build that pulling strength then it’s interesting for sure. He has really long arms. Perfect build for pulls. Maybe that changes things a bit.
@@bobdobric6787 damn!! He pulls the bar with so much speed man. It’s hard to believe. That’s the thing, people with longer arms are able to rip it off the floor so well. But even then, to pull 300 or 350, you need more than just a nice break off the floor. Gotta be so damn strong.
I got my barbell row up to 405lbs for 8 (yes, cheat style with belt and straps) at that point I deadlifted (conventional) 545 lbs for 8 and pulled over 600 lbs (conventional) a handful of times. You’re right that they are expensive on recovery but they are a great movement in both building up your deadlift and it’s a good indicator on where your deadlift strength is at.
Its the lower back. With machines unless its made for it, you dont really get back extension work or some type of iso contraction from any machine. Free weights do thar, you arent supported on yoyr ass,, your trunk is supporting you, lower back is part of it.
Congrats on another milestone Ivan. I know you don't usually celebrate these round numbers but it's just amazing what you're doing. I've been following the journey since around day 900, so I guess just half the total time, but you've been a part of my day every day for what now seems like a long time. Thanks for your inspiration.
It's a weird movement. It's one of the most functional there is. At the same time; it has a terrible resistance curve, and the more you increase weight over 1.0x your bdw, the more hip dancing you're going to be doing even if you try not to. That or you just plain up stand more upright. I've seen a few videos of guys doing Pendlay rows with 3 plates. It's doable. But they're absolute 300lb tanks themselves.
^ this; but then again, the lengthened part of the movement matters more. That’s why I prefer T-bar rows for this kind of movement, they’re a bit more stable.
Look at Bald Omni man, he rows a lot at 98kg bw
Or you can just use dumbells
Its called chest supported rows?
@@MFK1981 watch the video
I'd say blending different exercises to fill in the gaps is more important than trying to isolate every muscle in bodybuilding. If I open up with barbell rows or deadlift, then doing some 45 hypers, curls, pullups (or lat pulldowns if greatly fatigued), face pulls. Then that'll fill in the gaps from my opening movement.
Yeh I think just doing all the planes of motion.
Horizontal pull, vertical pull. Do a few exercises in those planes and you should get most of the muscles.
Halfway around the world in Ohio and we on the same schedule….i watch ur vids during my workout breaks.
Keeps me going. Thanks bro
Cheers man. Pleasure to hear that!
Ivan your work ethic is pure INSPIRATION!!! Andre
Gary Vaynerchuk level
Appreciate it man!
@IvanDjuric300 DJURIC!!
Hi Ivan, rowing races are 2000m. Appreciate your work!
I got 90% of my back size and thickness from bent over rows😎
Once you get into the groove of the movement and get that deep stretch you'll feel amazing and on top of that it builds insane low back endurance in everyday life👍
bald omni man did this exact weight (probably more)
the goat
I never train deadlift. I may test it once every year or 2, but I never train it.
However I do TONS of rowing of different variations. My favourite is Cailer Woolam style rows, but on a 4.75.inch deficit.
With that deficit and that style of row, my current best set is 148 kg for 11.
A few weeks ago, I decided to see how much I could deadlift after a 45 minute session of that particular style of rowing, off of the same deficit.
I went up from the 148 kg I do the rows with, all the way to 238.5 kg (that's all I can fit on my bar because I've made a lot of my own weights with concrete and they are thick).
I was able to do 1 rep of deadlift off of that 4.75 inch deficit, after a hard row session, with that 238.5 kg. It was a huge struggle.
It's not the greatest of numbers but it makes me wonder what I could get to if I actually trained deadlift for a while.
I weigh 96 kg.
That guy that deadlifts 900 lbs is Cailer Woolam, absolute beast
Number 33 in the house of back
Seal rows with full protraction / retraction is just superior in my opinion. I use a cambered swiss bar and I've never had such wicked stretch / pump.
Machines obviously have their place but nothing beats deadlifts, weighted chin-ups and DB or barbell rows for back development. Those have been my staples for all the years I’ve trained and they have not disappointed.
I love bent over rows but I’ve been doing back movements that spare my lower back so I can save my back for squats and deadlifts. But it is such a money lift.
I haven’t barbell rowed 140 kg before, but I can confidently row 100kg for 12 reps, and i can say without a doubt that your deadlift shoots up without even training it. Rows are amazing for the erectors, bulletproofing your lower back, and just crazy strength gains. Even though technique is very important to any lift, i think that going balls to the freaking wall on barbell rows, putting on some insane ass weight, and rowing that sucker will easily translate into a strong back.
For me Barbell Rows are in a weird place, I consider them a great exercise but typically I never do them because they have too high recovery cost to me. I have limited amount of especially lower back recovery so either I do more Deadlifts & Deadlift Variations or Barbell Rows. And I almost always decide to rather do RDL / Snach Grip DL / Deficite DL / Stiff Leg Deadlift + Chest Supported Row variations over Barbell Rows. I am sure you could do Barbell Rows + Leg Curls instead and have similar effects but I would expect carryover to the DL to be worse. I guess Cailor is the proof that this isn't universally true, but it is always hard to look at outliers and try to apply that to people that don't have his proportions and genetics.
I remember cailler Wollam too. You are not exaggerating on his numbers. He was cheat rowing 500lbs. And deadlifting 900. I believe he weighed around 220.
Beast
Pendlay row for weight like 5x5
T bar row for a good contraction at the top like 3x10
That’s how my back i do other than pull ups.
I remember Cailor on Mark's channel...he was incredible at deadlift and rows...I'm sure he had the world record and he weighed 100 kg....I'm sure it was 950...lb...or 430kg...hook grip as well...and I'm sure it was 5 plate rows...so around the 500 lb mark..great athlete
You ever incorporate pull ups when training back? Probably one of the best bang for your buck back exercises. Especially when you start adding extra weight, can get crazy strong dping them.
No shit Sherlock
I hardly doubt a squat would correlate well with a row, even an extreme cheat row would hardly activate the quads. The deadlift might track but that depends on the deadlift form of the individual (a sumo deadlifter would be disadvantaged rowing in that position for example). If you specify instead does the row correlate with romanian deadlifts or good mornings? You'd be almost spot on. I've rowed into the 140+ for reps before I was consistent with deadlifting 200kg
If you want to isolate and build muscle, do machines. If you want to get strong do barbell exercises. The top grip barbell row is the best damn exercise to get strong and build that back.
Cailer woolam also swore by heavy weighted Pull ups having carryover to the DL, which is super interesting
Whats the recovery/cost issue in your opinion? As someone who squats 3 times a week, and deadlifts two. I feel like I cannot afford the recovery cost it puts.
I can row 130kg for a set of 10. My deadlift max is 230kg. Low back pain/glute weakness is my limitation with deadlift. That being said I shrug those lockouts using my lats/traps
CHEST SUPPORTED ROWS BRO. Seriously. They are amazing. They let your low back rest whilst building the rest of it. Then when bent over rows feel good occasionally then go for it.
Just sit down then. Putting all that resistance on your core and hamstrings is why the bend over rows are great.
@ both are great. I’m not arguing for one or the other.
Hi, after years of training bro split my compound lifts are not where they should be I believe it’s because I have a very weak core I tried to do a front plank and struggled to reach 1 minute 😅 out of interest how long could you hold a plank for? It seems a good basic gauge of core strength, does anybody have a strong core and weak lifts is this possible haha
Hey Ivan, love your work. To me everything about your approach and interests seems to be more in line with olympic weightlifting than powerlifting - mobility, aesthetics of the lifts, athleticism etc. I know youve dabbled in the past, is there any particular reason youve never had the desire to fully commit to learning the snatch and clean&jerk?
I agree with you. I think Olympic weightlifting is the cooler sport. That’s where my love for squats came from.
I guess the reason why I never went into it because I always felt building a monster squat and strength in general is a prerequisite to get elite in weightlifting.
If I had a huge squat I’d be more keen to learn the technique of oly lifts.
I feel I haven’t mastered the squat yet. That’s the first step in my mind.
dude ur guns are freaking massive
algo ivan
Eric Bugenhagen rowes big weight and has a pretty big deadlift
Have you seen climber Magnus Midtbo rowing 120 kg in each hand, at 70 kg BW? In a video with Eddie Hall.
A short while ago whilst training for Husafell Ivan I was barbell rowing 150kg and it was miserable. Not super strict but rowing it and at 50 years old.
Massive carry over to deadlift.
I love rows. Maybe because I'm nowhere near that strong yet, but still. Feels fantastic.
@ oh I love them. But they make me miserable during.
Love - hate relationship
@@Ethos1231 There's always pullups.
Agree, rows are always terrible, there is no such thing as perfect form rowing.
Try t-bar row
@@aemilos888 Maybe once you get up to his level, but man, I get a lot out of it doing strict reps with 60-70-something kilos. Underhand is great for lats. Wide-grip and touching the bottom of the chest is great for upper back. I'm actually weaker there and it's something which I hope will really increase my performance in many things in the next bulk, as I bring my working weight up on that from 50 kg to maybe 70 in that timespan.
Been doing lots of Woolam rows lately, hoping to increase my deadlift. I suppose someone that could barbell row 140 for 10 would have a veryy strong deadlift
Prob in the 200+ kg region
Prob shouldn't comment before watching lol
People who only ever use machines will never have the same power that someone who trains with dumbells or barbells will have comparatively.
sam sulek basically does just leg curls and leg extensions and squats 260kg for reps
Yeh that’s a poor example man.
Man is on gear.
Also I’ve seen him squat alot too. It’s not all about his machines.
Yeah the only thing I'm wondering is the lumbar spine injury risk when you start cheat rowing big ass weights
Its hard too say how the back operates and what makes some people stronger than others but there is a guy from Melbourne his on youtube Kevin Booey i dont know if he does dumbell rows never seen him doing any but he has hit a PB of 320kg deadlift and his not overly big either
Yeh I know him.
Interesting to hear that. I bet he could row a lot. But if he never used rows to build that pulling strength then it’s interesting for sure.
He has really long arms. Perfect build for pulls. Maybe that changes things a bit.
@IvanDjuric300 i cant wrap my head around it his aiming now for 350kg whether he reaches it is another thing time will tell
@@bobdobric6787 damn!!
He pulls the bar with so much speed man. It’s hard to believe.
That’s the thing, people with longer arms are able to rip it off the floor so well. But even then, to pull 300 or 350, you need more than just a nice break off the floor. Gotta be so damn strong.
Title is talking about me lmao
I got my barbell row up to 405lbs for 8 (yes, cheat style with belt and straps) at that point I deadlifted (conventional) 545 lbs for 8 and pulled over 600 lbs (conventional) a handful of times. You’re right that they are expensive on recovery but they are a great movement in both building up your deadlift and it’s a good indicator on where your deadlift strength is at.
Why not use straps on rows?
Its the lower back. With machines unless its made for it, you dont really get back extension work or some type of iso contraction from any machine. Free weights do thar, you arent supported on yoyr ass,, your trunk is supporting you, lower back is part of it.
"It's liake youah woking on a demn faaamlend" lool I spat My food out laughing when you said this (that's my interpretation of the auzy accent)
I can hear it oi oi 😂😂
@marledanimefan7186 U WOT M8?! XD
Dude you never even watched a damn Patrick Ewing game in your life