I don't think it's pretentious I think it's more cause it's a Mish mash of weird iconography, philosophy, and it's narrative, it's made the fanbase and discourse around it very pretentious. As someone that still doesn't really "get" Evangelion but still enjoys it enough
agreed. The main reason I don't like it is because the fans are pretentious "if you don't like it you just didn't get it and thus your brain is smaller than mine". Like no I got it I just didn't like it that much because it's not what I wanted from the show.
@@luxaeterna365 Yesss this is my thought too. Being told "You just don't get it" when you say you dislike something is the exact definition of the word "pretentious". When people talk BS about Shinji's depression and social anxiety being a representation of Hideaki Anno's personal struggles, then moan about Mushoku Tensei's Rudeus and his flaws, when the whole point of the frickin' story is supposed to be about his slow redemption from being a piece of sh*t to becoming an actual genuinely good person.
I like Eva but it's the kind of show I will never recommend to anyone as it's a hard sell. Especially as it has a bell curve of whiplash between drama, the "slice-of life" episodes, and psychological mind curve. If you wanna watch Eva, do it. But don't go into it via the recommendation of others or with any sense of expectations.
That’s what I always said. It was my favorite anime ever but I would never recommend it. It’s not easily digestible and has a lot of fumbles story wise but to you and me it’s as an artistic expression of trauma and loneliness
Almost could not agree less. Almost everyone that watches anime has some idea what to expect for it by this point, and you're honestly underselling your friends if you think they can't handle a show that has tonal shifts. Out of the shows I have recommended to my friends it has been one of the more successful ones, I mean there is a reason why it is still pretty popular in 2024.
It's super easy to recommend to anyone cause at least first 2/3 of the subj is solid and entertaining action. Eva works as action amazingly. Then the story becomes more complex but to this point I believe you are either already engaged or not.
I only saw Evangelion like two years ago and from my perspective the story, as in the structured narrative, does not matter. All that matters is how the characters react to the events and what guides their decision making, aspects of the human psyche just laid bare for all to see with no care for progression, no concern for constructing a story, no interest to be a product, just a wish for introspection about oneself and how they relate to others, it's just venting about the horror of having to exist. It really is like a cry for help like Garnt said, raw emotion, existential anguish, self-hatred, desperately asking how to be happy with no clear answer. It's not good because it's a good product, it's good because it's some of the closest of a true expression of a person that there is in the mass market, for that reason it can be impossible for some to resonate with it because they never had to deal with the very specific sort of questions that the anime poses, but for those that it resonates with, it really can change their lives probably because it helps them see that they aren't alone in their feelings. It's so individual in fact that it's somehow did an underflow in the niche product scale and turned around into a big mass market appeal product just because it's so unique. It all just feels like a big accident, because it also doesn't seem care what you think of it, it even doesn't look like it was made for anyone to see, like a diary would be.
this comment didn't add much into the discussion. I feel the show made it pretty evident that it was a non local world and watching the EOS (show, not movie) basically spelled it out, that the characters reaction to events is the main premise. That's the story and it is constructed through the characters outlooks, adaptations, and developments. This really isn't anything new, most shows are constructed like this (a local world) Sopranos might be the most prominent example. So i really don't understand why its being brought up like its something original to eva.
@@Big_show_guy Yeah I'm just describing what I felt watching the original series + end of evangelion, without having much contact with the whole thing before doing that, perspective of a newbie if you will. I don't think it's something original to eva, but what I'm trying to describe is not about narrative structure. Because it didn't feel like a story, it felt like someone expressing their reflections about life using these characters as hypothetical scenarios and asking how do we feel about that in our own lives, the structure of how that is laid out is just consequence of that. It's like all the characters are just one guy. What's actually special about eva though I feel like is the context it was inserted in. It only exists as it does because of the very specific circumstances the creators were in, and that can't be replicated. Ofc every production has its special story and circumstances that made them what they are, but eva was also not the sort of thing people expected to see in the cultural mass market back then. What studio would even invest in such a niche idea, or even approve such a radical pivot that wasn't even part of the premise? These things are supposed to be made to sell merchandising, not make you wonder things about yourself, or be about the people making them. It's not just experimental in this specific cultural niche, but also a rare example of an unexpected pivot in direction and creative vision during a highly troubled production that actually worked.
@@LealFireball I understand what you are saying better now and I completely agree. All I’ll say is that you hit the nail on the head on why it couldn’t really be replicated and why I believe the movie series (not EoE, talking about rebuild movies) just isn’t the same. It’s 20 years of growth in annos life being crammed into about 3 hours of addressing themes and characters he can’t even reflect himself onto properly anymore, since his frame of mind is completely different from what he originally started with.
You saw it recently and you get the picture. The plot almost doesn’t even matter. The characters their grief and inability to cope with the world is what screams off that screen ❤
Just the fact people are still arguing over it 27years later is crazy Evangelion love it or hate it Evangelion had a massive influence on anima as a whole and that alone is very impressive.
Evangelion isn't pretentious but Evangelion fans can be. On the other hand I think Evangelion haters can also be pretentious in their own way. The whole anti-intellectual/anti-art movement of "How dare you analyse or find meaning in something that I don't?" is ironically just as pretentious as the "You obviously don't get it!" crowd since it hinges on the belief that your way of experiencing something is objectively correct and superior to others. All of it comes across as people being incredibly self-absorbed and insecure.
Best comment I've seen on it. Its fine to not like it but acting like it isn't deep is being purposely ignorant or exposing that you haven't engaged with the show properly or are actually just dumb. And then fans of the show feel they have to overcompensate for the loud disingenuous people and become pretentious about it
The style of Eva underappreciated. Everyone rightfully analizes the themes, story, lore and autobiographical aspects but you have to realize how fucking stylish it is. The Mech designs, character designs, monster designs, basically every design aspect of the world is GOATed. It's why you can watch Eva more superficially for the fun and the spectacle, even if you don't resonate with the themes. If the show looked bad and unappealing, it would never have the same longevity. I would comapare that aspect with something like Akira. Akira (at least the movie) might not have the same depth as Eva, but it lives on style (and great directing)
Evangelion isn't pretentious, it's fans are. They are the one's that try pretend Evangelion is something it isn't, just so they can pretend they like deep and complex stories.
I'm pretty sure the creator of Evangelion simply adding Biblical reference here and there just because they look cool without actually have deep understanding of what they put in. For me Eva is a complicated story but not a deep nor a great one.
I get where you're coming from, the fanbase to any series will always be annoying, but if Evangelion isn't deep then I don't know what is. It literally has entire scenes dedicated to going into the psyche of its characters, exploring their trauma and explaining why they act the way they do. They're basically therapy sessions for the characters (and sometimes also for people who relate to them) which as far as I've seen is as deep as fiction can possibly get. I'm asking out of curiosity, not fishing for stupid arguments, but what would you consider a series that is deep, and why?
@@piratesinspace4989 Pepper pig has entire scenes dedicated to going into to the psyche of its characters, exploring their trauma and explaining why they shouldn't act the way they do.
I think the much of the gripe is with the majority of the fanbase who pretends to understand it because they want it be part of the club and then there’s those who straight up admit that they don’t understand it and expect us to believe that it’s genuinely their favorite show which sort of implies that their reasoning for liking it is shallow or pretentious. Here’s a good indicator that the fanbase are posers: they spend more time talking about how good the show is than they do the actual contents and themes of the story.
The fans are bad but It is pretensions it spends it whole runtime making the viewer suffer through random things that are never explained and meaningless christian imagery + shinji is insufferable + it uses underage chars for fanservice. Im sure it was good at the time (not saying much tbh) but it hasnt aged well.
I think much of the hate for Evangelion comes from the feeling that it is more of a piece of art than it is a show. And it somehow became way more popular than it was supposed to be and because of this popularity, the average person will go into it expecting it to be far more appealing and comprehensible than what the creator originally intended. It’s like being told you’re going to the movie theater to watch this really awesome movie and then instead you’re taken to a fancy museum or gallery where a group of people are obsessing over a painting that is just a bunch of random abstract shapes and colors splashed on a canvas and they’re acting like it’s the greatest thing they’ve ever seen. Like one of them is crying over it and someone else is on their knees praying to it. And since you’re there, you want to understand what it means and what all the commotion is about and so you ask one of them and they just respond by saying “you either get it or you don’t”.
man evangelion was released almost 30 years ago , and its still as populair as ever , surviving the impact of time is the best argument when discussing if something is a masterpiece more then anything else ,its not populair cuz its art or whatever , its just a good show its just that good , i remember the first time i watched , it wasn't recomaded to me or anything and i wasn't expecting anything , i just watch it by luck , and i enjoyed the heck out of it , it might not be the best show ever , but its certainly very good , its very famous , and one of the top animes in score
It's kinda true though, you kinda just get it or don't. Personally I don't think I would've ever gotten the point of Eva if I didn't watch it at the time I did. Though I am not crying over it nor do I think it's the greatest piece of fiction ever created but I liked it.
@@alaa341g I was enjoying it too because it seemed to set up a cool world but the ending was just so atrocious and unsatisfying that I feel like it wad a bad april fools joke or that I was being punished for making the effort of investing any thought into understanding the details or concepts of the world and immersing myself in any kind of plot that it was trying to tell. Even with The End of Evangelion I was still like uhhhh is that it? I feel like a good story balances the literal with the metaphorical 50/50. The themes and philosophy are supposed to complement the more grounded and tangible story and vice versa. But with Evangelion it’s like 90% metaphorical and 10% tangible so of course the conclusion didn’t feel satisfying because the tangible aspect was clearly not a priority to the writer so why bother writing something that the audience can realistically follow along with? Tbh I haven’t watch it in a good while but those are my feelings that it left me with. Idk maybe this is the problem with a show that only has 27 episodes trying to deliver such a grand and philosophical message.
@@TinkerTailorSailorTy It's so depressing to see this show get milked and commodified to absolute death with the amount of merchandise it has. Merchandise which ultimately served the purpose the show tried to criticize in the first place. View it a piece of art, but let's get real here, it is a franchise that appeals to the otaku market with it's sexualized -underage- characters, loser relatability, and fandom appeal. Even its rep as an artistic anime got wrapped up and sold back to us as a product. I love Eva but it's not hard to see why despite it's supposed avant garde quality, it managed to garner otaku fans who aren't even into subversive art and lit. or even just well-read.
To me, Evangelion ultimately is one of those franchises that's gonna REALLY depend on the person watching it. I think I can still recommend it simply for its importance, but I can't blame people for not liking it. It's...a LOT to take in. And I say this as someone who went through an Eva obsession for a good solid year (let's just say, I felt pretty burnt out on reddit). But it really spoke to me in a way nothing else ever did. Warts and all.
@@kickasscowell5654 Huh. Didn't catch that. And I've SEEN BoJack too. On that note, yeah, I also associate Eva and BoJack. It helped that I watched it after Eva.
I used to think eva was my favorite anime because of its themes of loneliness and connection but that changed because I grew up out of that same phase. Ngl it was an acid trip to watch the first time around. But I now find myself in the same boat of those who call it pretentious because the internet seems to glorify it (which makes sense because loneliness is very common now and I guess now everyone finds shinji relatable) then not move on, which is ironically the point of the whole thing
As a Japanese person, I can speak about the general evaluation of Evangelion in Japan: This work is said to be the first work that has the theme of characters interacting with the world and other people, based on high-quality images and music that induce tension, excitement, and depression. It is also great that it leaves many ambiguous depictions open to philosophical and religious interpretations by viewers. Whether or not that interpretation really matches the intention of the creators is another matter.
Within the context of the time when Evangelion was released, it was a very striking media. The aesthetics are on point and very unique, and the depressing tones presented in the show were refreshing, it was very rare to see a "cartoon" that exposed these edgy elements in an actioned packed fashion. Nowadays, there are shows that have done a better job at telling this kind of dark stories, however, I think that the aesthetics of Evangelion are still enjoyable nowadays, not the storytelling, for sure, not even in the movies.
Evangelion got me when I was 10 years old (yes I saw this anime when I was young, then I watched it when I was 18 and I remembered that It existed and had a story that I've never ever been told), it resonated well with me, just seeing the depressing parts of that anime and also having a soft spot in my heart means that it achieved what it was trying to say all along... For that I say, only (RESPECT)-Hideaki Anno truly was a storyteller for the ages...
Eva is a show/movie that is more about how the characters deal with the awful situation they find themselves in. The overarching story doesn't really matter, and it doesn't need to make sense imo. Anno is trying to portray to you characters that are human, he's not really trying to tell you a traditional story. The story is used as a vehicle to put the character in an awful scenario and show how different characters react and interact in that scenario. People hate Shinji, but he is a literal child that has dealt with parental trauma all his life. Is it right that he acts the way he does, no. Is it understandable, yes. At the end of the story, Shinji does actually grow up and learn that the way he acted and the choices he made were not necessarily the best, and he has a chance to make things right and become a better person and the person he wants to be. Like just look at the end of 3+1 it basically said the setting and events did not matter, it literally shows eva as a set in a building and at the end he puts the characters in a normal Japan setting. Anno could've put these characters in a different genre with a different story, with similar scenarios, and it would not change the message that he was trying to get through or what he was trying to portray.
Evangelion is like the Seinfeld of anime. In its time it was revolutionary for its style, characters, themes...it was and is truly a masterpiece objectively. However, over the decades since, many other anime have taken parts of it, and in some ways have done even more interesting things with those parts, to the point where going back to watching Eva itself afterwards can leave one with opinions of being less impressed by it. As a Kamen Rider fan, I hold a similar stance on Ryuki. Revolutionary series at the time. Rider vs Rider in a Battle Royale style had never been done before up to that point. But my entry point was Decade where it was basically the main character's job to merc all the legendary and iconic Riders from that time. It was hard for me to appreciate a show about a reluctant hero doing the same thing with a relatively generic set of Riders. Looping it back to Eva, long story short, timing is everything. If it's your first "mature" anime, it's going to leave a hell of an impression. If you're visiting it after you've been around the block a bit, you're likely to find that by today's anime landscape it's simply not mature enough. Mileage varies by how well 'traveled' you are. Go figure.
@@miyamotomusashi6450 Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less of a masterpiece of its medium. I don't like Moby Dick, but that doesn't make it any less of a classic. 🤷♀
@@miyamotomusashi6450 Would you call the Mona Lisa a "subjective" masterpiece? No, because regardless to the fact that art is subjective, there are some cases where we commonly agree that a thing is worthy of its status even if there are a few contrarians who think differently. Again, I'm not disagreeing with your right to say something is or isn't worthy of its accolades. But to make a point of going against the grain just for the sake of being contrarian is nothing short of asinine.
@@monkibro I'm not trying to be contrarian, we're not talking about people being dishonest about their opinions, that's unrelated to the discussion. Btw, the Mona Lisa isn't an objective masterpiece either, it's based on opinion. If someone says: "the Mona Lisa is a masterpiece" do you really think that statement is literally a fact?
The final episode of Evangelion is literally the thesis statement of the show superimposed onto dialogue within the show. It’s rather clear what the point of the last episode was, but the etherial nature of the episode probably didn’t help.
Pretentiousness tends to be very vapid, shallow gesturing to deeper meaning, without communicating it well or substantively. It feels intentionally obtuse to appreciate as to create an “in crowd” to looking at this stuff. It also likes to suggest that there is a much greater gap between those who “get it” and those who don’t. I’d say, most people can recognise well made media. People aren’t dumb. People will just tend to get more out of media depending on how much time they spend with it. Nobody should want to go to a modern art gallery and be explained as to why something is artistically impressive. At that point, I’m basically appreciating the backstory to some banana taped to a wall, not any impressive part of the craft. That’s an example of an actual barrier to entry. You very rarely can appreciate a work without being told it’s backstory first. I think Eva dips into this area in places, but then again, they over correct with the more blatant endings later. That being said, the writing departs from very literal understandable events and I think that’s why people get annoyed at the end. You can talk about Eva without sounding pretentious. Look at a character’s arc, like Shinji’s and just look at where he goes from beginning to end. Try to refer only to his actions, his dialogue, his relationships with the other characters. Keep it simple and don’t pull in any broader themes yet. Might get a bit difficult towards the end where the events become very vague.
The funny thing is I actually watched the end of evangelion when I was like 14 before I actually watch the show, and none of it made any sense I was like OK I have to watch the show. And I wasn’t hooked immediately but I was like OK I’ll see where this is going and then like the last half of the show just completely lost me and I really didn’t like the show that much at all be on the visuals and the amazing opening, because to me at the time Evangelion did was it spent all this time building up this world, just to destroy everything by the end of the show. And then I watched it a few years later when they announced the final movie was coming out and I love it. I do agree with Connor that it is possible to get the showing that like it but I got to say most people who don’t like the show and trash it don’t get it😂.
I just found it really boring and weird, not even including the last few episodes. I didn't care for any of the characters or anything that happened, in the beginning I was interested in figuring out what was happening in the world but that disappeared quickly.
Garnt’s argument for sparkling water is the EXACT SAME as Connor’s argument for room temperature water over ice water!!! (Carbonation/cold temperature prevents you from drinking more faster) They held that shit over his head as the worst take of the year, wtf? 😝
I understand it. The ending was literally just my 3am thoughts, and I hated seeing them on screen as the end to a story. It was really awful because it disrupted what the story was and had been up to that point, and everything just happened. I get why it happened and what the creator was going through, but I do not like the original Eva at all. That ending screwed up the story for me, and threw in all these weird elements that all come out of nowhere. Like I see the thought process for it and why, but seeing it put on screen was just not enjoyable. That visual image was definitely helpful. Again, I get it, but I just don't like it. Very much a 4 out of 10. Both the movie and ending episodes were just yuck for me and lose the structure of the story. It's why I haven't tried the new movies. I just don't like or want that experience again when I can just stay up til 3am and my own mind will give me its own unique kaleidoscope of intrusive thought and depression intermixed with fantasies about getting the waifu and having a life. To me, Eva just ended badly with unorganized thoughts. It was interesting to see once, for the outside perspective, but I never need to see it again, ever. It was interesting for what it was, but it wasn't good in my opinion.
The espresso plus sparkling water is the OP morning order. You can sip the espresso and then actually hydrate with the bubbles. Helps you not get the coffee runs too
I recently finished the series. And I can’t stop thinking about it. Its definitely was one of the most impactful media I’ve ever consumed. If you’re not attached to the characters or relate to anything you’re seeing on the screen, then it’s understandable that you’d be underwhelmed. But for me personally, it resonated with me deeply.
Connor once defended room-temperature water over ice water, and got voted the WORST take of the year. And now, Garnt uses his EXACT same argument to defend still water over sparkling water! (Carbonation/cold temperature prevents you from being able to drink more faster)
Garnt’s defense of sparkling water is the EXACT SAME as Connor’s defense of room temperature water over ice water!!! (Carbonation/cold temperature prevents you from drinking more faster) They held that shit over his head as the “Worst Take of The Year,” so wtf? 😝
As someone who only watched all of Eva after all the Rebuild films came out, I gave every main anime entry a 10/10 each (except death and rebirth on its own). Mostly because they all tell the same message, but with wildly different approaches. I thought og Eva's ending was hilariously amazing. Sitting through the last 2 episodes was a trip worth experiencing, and the iconic "congratulations" into an abrupt end was great. End of Eva just spitting in the audiences face was absolutely hilarious. Honestly, my favorite for how much of a laugh i get out of it. The rebuild films just were a great tied ribbon to the main story of the franchise. Getting to see the last rebuild film in theaters for the first time is an experience I'll never forget. I will say, though, I get why people would be angry at any entry in the franchise, especially if you're someone that watched the series as it aired.
Connor is spot on, saying "you either get it or you dont" IS the pretenciousness that people talk about. You can understand something and not like it, the pretenciousness comes from that statement.
but that's not pretentious, you can say the same thing about relating to a character or not, it's very dependent on the person and what they already understand.
I don't think it's pretentious to try to understand Evangelion or to try to give meaning to some parts of it, I think most people that don't really understand don't want to understand at all. And when someone tries to explain it it just sounds pretentious. A good example is Garnt and Connor, they don't get it at all, meanwhile joey understands it and has seen the series and the movies a few times but joey's trying to defend his side like he is the one who's wrong even though he's probably the one that knows more about the show.
Eva is not that deep or pretentious the problem can be some fans. Sometimes they give some iconography and the fans crank it to another level 😅 I remember when they revealed they used Christian iconography just because it looks dope 😂
I think the problem is haters saying it isnt deep at all so the fans have to "overcompensate" or maybe theyre just sound like they are which starts this whole war. People missplace the deepness to the plot or lore when its about the characters. So if you cant relate to them then you miss out on the "deepness".
I think it goes both ways. 🤔 personally think it is an anime culture problem where the community makes judgments of value depending on your taste. Not every piece of media is related to everyone and liking a "deep" anime doesn't make you smarter.
“There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool.” (Tsurumaki, 2001, member of the creativeteam) Eva is still one of the most sincere pieces of animation. “I tried to include everything of myself in Neon Genesis Evangelion - myself, a broken man who could do nothing for four years. A man who ran away for four years, one who was simply not dead. Then one thought. ‘You can’t run away,’ came to me, and I restarted this production. It is a production where my only thought was to burn my feelings into film.” - Hideaki Anno (quoted in Stewart-Ahn, 2019) @@PXE-w3r
@@PXE-w3r “There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool.” (Tsurumaki, 2001, member of the creativeteam)
Evangelion is basically a rip-off of Ultraman, Devilman & Ideon mixed with Anno's inner mind. And it's perfect. Then he made The End of Evangelion for all the people like Connor (and the people sending him threats).
That's interesting, because I find that this is around the point where the real emotion comes out - for me, episode 22 is the best episode in the show, because of the huge amount of clarity it gives about Asuka who hides her feelings for the whole show - quite the opposite of being ambiguous like you suggest. Yes, you have to be paying some attention to see some of the details, but the details are there, especially with the flashbacks to episodes 9 and 16 which basically show you who Asuka really is. Episodes 25 and 26 I can understand being very ambiguous, but I think that's partly why we got EoE, which very much clarifies the actual events of episodes 25 and 26, especially regarding the fate of things in the real world up to the 3rd impact and the actual choices that Shinji made, and why. But I think this just confirms what they are saying about the show; some people just don't like that sort theme, and it's not what they were going in wanting to see. So when the surface level plot of weekly eva vs angel fights goes away, and you are just left with the real themes (mostly of how dysfunctional all the characters are), it must seem to many that it suddenly became a pretentious, ambiguous, messy show. And it's fine if you don't like that - it just means eva wasn't meant for you.
Eva is weird because most people go into it expecting a mecha show about saving the world, but it only becomes apparent at the end that saving the world is the B story. The A story is the emotional development of the characters, which a lot of people either dont get or just dont like.
I never understood this, I came in expecting the weirdness and got exactly what I wanted out of the ending,this show would have been super forgettable without it for me, if it ended at cool fights and monsters it would have been no different to me than any other okay mech anime.
true bro, i want everything to make perfect sense all the time. i want everything explained to me because thinking about things hurts my brain. true bro.
@@tyler-xo3rb Insane strawman argument. I absolutely love mystery when done right like steins gate, aot till s3 and death note. The aim of mystery and ambiguity is to engage and excite the viewer and entice them to theorize. then reveal info bit by bit or in bulk, by the end everything should be clear. that's absolutely not what happened with eva in the last 6 episodes. the questions kept increasing with little amount of clarity. The end of eva movie did fix a lot of that but unfortunately I already didn't like the idea of the joined and connected consciousness beforehand. which I'd say is more of a subjective critique. the last 6 episodes of the main tv show should have definitely been remade entirely in my humble opinion. the production and idea definitely had a lot of potential that was wasted
I would give Evangelion an 8/10 if I were to rate it. It's a great show, especially for its time. I find more to like about it each time I see it. It's a story that captures what Hideki Anno was going through at that time. In that way, it's very powerful and a big reason for why it has left such a big impact on people. It's not my personal favorite, but it did lay the groundwork for other anime I love. It should be respected as a piece of art, but it isn't going to be a masterpiece for everyone who views it. And that's okay. :)
I watched Evangelion all over again (including the rebuilds) and i think that EVA has a lore problem. Too much stuff to be aware of and most of it i don't know if it was explained. Sometimes you need to have a wiki open to enjoy it the most. I watched dubed this time (LATAM spanish) just to be aware of the most stuff and i think i like EVA even more. The emotional themes are the best parts (like the final episodes). I would really like a laid back spin off though, maybe an OVA slice of life OR a version with the second Rebuild vibe
I think it depends on why you're watching the show. If you go into it trying to understand the philosophy of it, it's really good. Especially if you need that.
The studio ran out of budget. That's why they did the last two episodes like that. But considering that, the last two episodes are undeniably pieces of art. The heavy constraint of the situation produced something we wouldn't have gotten anywhere else. And loose threads/unexplained elements do not make a story bad.
Garnt is right about either getting it or not. Everyone simply has a different perspective. It's the same with Serial Experiments Lain. When I watched it, I thought it wasn't as deep as people made it out to be. 😅 It was still great for me though. You just absorb what you can, and feel what it makes you feel... Then zone out into the void afterward while questioning your existence. 😂
If nothing else Evangelion like Bayformers is still worth watching for the cool robot battles alone regardless of questions of logic or artistic merit.
It's because no one ever says why it's good, only that "if you get it, you get it", or vague statements like that. "Oh it's a masterpiece" "why?" "either you get it or you don't" well what did you get?its like people don't want others to appreciate it. Notice how in the entire video not one thing or instance in the show was mentioned.
Eva is like sometimes Gundam, sometimes slice of life, and then you just get hit with Homunculus, Punpun, Flower of Evil, Trail of Blood etc etc... Is what I think its like I never watched it am I correct on this probably not tho
I didn’t love Evangelion from an enjoyment standpoint. But I do think it is a a very great piece of art. I actually thought the ending was super meta and gave me a lot to ponder on.
It's funny, I remember as a kid it was early 2000s can't specifically remember what year, but a TV station in the UK had picked up on the success of things like Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z and Digimon so they started running their own anime segment for kids...when it first started they had 3 anime those were Martian Successor Nadesico, Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion. I remember being 6 episodes in before they changed the lineup to I don't even remember what...so about 6 weeks that lasted on whatever channel it was in the UK where Neon Genesis Evangelion was legit running as a Saturday morning cartoon show for kids and that was my first exposure to it 😂
Showing Evangelion to a new anime fan is like showing a Bach piece to someone who only listens to Taylor Swift. It requires a certain ear and admiration different from the average anime one would typically see. Ifykyk
The first time I watched Eva was 10 years ago and my opinion about it has certainly changed over the years, maybe aging or maturing made me see it a bit different, but I still think is pretty good defined not a 4 lol
Gigguk got my sell on Evangelion perfectly. Too many peolpe expect it to be a "highly praised story that is good or bad" but it truly is just best looked at as a work of art. It's the authors darkest emotions and viewpoints turned into a world and characters. Not everything is supposed to make sense, not everyone is supposed to grow and develope because that's not how real life works in a jaded persons world view especially. It's just there to resonate with you on an emotional level. Noone is truly supposed to be trying to deep dive into each individual angels lore, why humans were turned into giant mechs, or make sense of what the plot of the ending is supposed to be. It's about those emotions and viewpoints mashing together like a emotional breakdown and mental resolution at the end. That's why even the ending of the rebuilds is just the characters moving forward with life like the author wants to. I love series like this, Sonney boy, and Fooly Cooly, the depth is there if you're looking deep "plot wise" but it's supposed to be the Art and Emotion of it that "makes sense". It's mostly the fans and overall massive reputation as a well known great series that makes the series feel pretentious.
I like that description, so accurate. Ive also heard it described as spicy water. I could never drink regular soda, maybe drinks with the tiniest amount of fizz. It just felt like my tongue and throat were getting pins and needles.
Besides the psychological themes of the story, people tend to forget how different it was from everything available at the time it was launched. The "mech" designs; a pilot who refuses to be the hero; the introduction of the definitive Tsundere, in Asuka; the trend it set on having a quiet, normally blue haired, mysterious girl, among many others. All those things were innovative for their time. If we think they're common nowadays, it's because of Eva. Add to that the quality of the animation and what was said, about your either "getting or don't" and that's why it is considered a masterpiece. You may not like Eva, but it's influenced cannot be denied.
I guess you would have to have a near identical mindset to the original creator. I've struggled, fought some pretty harsh personal battles. Crossed path with suicide on more occasions than I care to count... and I still didn't understand Evangelion. Honestly the ending felt like a mess.
I've always wondered what's so deep or revolutionary about Evangelion. Like, you can see more or less the same themes and tropes many many years before in Gundam, Ideon, etc. I guess it's just as Garnt says, you got to resonate with it
I saw Evangelion years after seeing Eureka 7 on Toonami. Despite being awfully similar I ended up liking Eureka 7 much better. Studio Bones and the show's OST really made it stand out amongst all the other mecha shows. And then it flopped real hard after its initial 50 episode serialization. Kinda don't even want to see the rest of what the IP has to offer from how panned it was with near ubiquity. Might give the PS2 games a try out of curiosity some day but that's it. That's one thing I liked about Evangelion, to me it maintains a solid score in my mind across everything I've seen. Most of my critiques of both of these shows are more of an endictment of the medium as a whole where when you make a show lots of aspects about said show will end up getting type casted into established tropes. Challenging convention is what intrigues me now. I think that's why something like Avatar The Last Airbender still hits so hard to me half a lifetime later because the writers were so self aware of all the cookie cutter aspects of the medium that they often made excellent jabs at it by utilizing subversion. First example that sprung to mind was the beech episode.
I think Connor was spot on because we're having fun and playing with the toys and playing games like the characters were complex, the animation was great, and the many of the mysteries of the world of evangelion were captivating but then they just drop the cake and the finale and nothing the anticipation of the conclusion to the characters the world the story is ruined, nothing is explained and it ruins the first half of the story If you resonate with it then good
Evangelion is one of the biggest examples of one of the most 'not for everyone' kind of anime ever made. You're either going to resonate with the characters, find them interesting or completely hate them. You'll either find the weird storytelling cool and interesting or nonsensical and pretentious. Not to mention the weird stigma where people that think mecha isn't about the characters until they find one they like and say, "But this one's not like the others! It's about the characters, not the mechs."
I don’t like Eva, but it’s a show people should definitely watch because it gives different perspectives people view when watching Eva. For me however- I didn’t like it and I found the characters pretty bad
I don't think that's true. You can understand what the characters are going through and still be indifferent to them. I was able get what they were going through but I still don't like them very much.
I don’t simply dislike sparkling water, I hate it to the point I don’t want it sold anywhere just because of the 0.1% chance I mistakingly buy a bottle of it
i love eva and it is quite nostalgic for me so it will always have a special place in my heart. but recently i dont feel any need to rewatch it because i am mentally in a better place than i was 7 years ago and no longer have as much of a relation to the characters. it's interesting to grow up and change while such a big representation of my past stays the same. i understand why people dont enjoy it. it would be like isekai anime for me, i dont like isekai stories because they dont offer anything interesting or relatable to me.
As someone who watched the first episode of Evangelion four or five times before moving on to the rest of the series-and then continued watching, hoping to understand things at some point-I eventually finished the show, watched the recap movie, watched End of Evangelion and all the movies that followed. After that, I even read the manga. And at some point I just accepted that Anno didn't create all of that so people would eventually 'get it.' It's just feelings being expressed through art. And that is what makes it pretentious. Edit: totally agree with the hot take tho. Action scenes and the way fights are directed is fucking awesome, but everyone in the show keeps doing the worst thing at every opportunity and fucking shit up.
I just finished NGE, and I agree it is roughly a 4/10 -- It fails at bringing the theme it wants to to the forefront because it lulls so much with other storylines that go nowhere, and it didn't resonate with me as someone that has depression, even if it was boringly simple - The genre of the show also does it a disservice -- The characters are dull and boring people as well, and don't matter, same with the "worldbuilding" in the show, the ending felt misplaced and weird and should have likely been spread out throughout the last ten episodes and so on, I didn't really enjoy it, and i understood what it was about haha.
I do believe the general fanbase of Evangelion is slightly pretentious. That said, complaining about pretentiousness is in itself kind of pretentious. Why do you as a viewer demand a creator, who has the most authentic vision for their creation in mind, make their creation more accessible to you. Why do you feel the need to complain about something that is fundamentally not meant for you and is rather meant for the author to share their ideas. If everybody thought this, art wouldn't exist. It irritates me that "Anti-intellectualism" (Don't really like the word intellectualism but it's the term so wtf right) is so deep rooted now that you get talked down to if you like anything remotely out of the ordinary. I got so much shit for reading fiction books that weren't self help, Harry Potter and or modern romance novels like Fourth Wing or Ice Breakers (Nothing against any of these books btw) when I was in the military. I would read The Plague by Albert Camus one day and the next day I would have to, embarrassingly, try to explain why I liked reading them like I was on trial or something. My answer is always the same for everything I like, I just like it or it was something with it that connected to me. I could explain more of what I like about it but I don't push it down people's throats. So I guess my final question is, why do people feel so entitled to talk about what people enjoy and don't enjoy? It just feels so unproductive and pretentious to drag people down for enjoying something that you personally don't. This was such a long and stupid paragraph, but I do seriously believe that if we tailer make media into what is most broadly accessible, like what Connor seems to, for whatever reason, advocate for, we end up creating what the public wants and not what the author wants, and that's very, very bad. This obviously excludes hate speech but I would assume that if there actually is anyone willing to read this that they would understand.
At max, is a above-average anime, a decent watch with a banger opening with some good qualities, especially for the time when it was released I had some very high and unfair expectations before watching this show because it was popular, so perhaps it´s why i don´t think so highly of it. I´ve read more heavy and complex stories with even more unusual story telling, but evangelion didn´t sit right with me, the show completely and forcibly change gears in the middle all of a sudden, like it´s a different show, about the ending, it was...well...like it is, i didn´t get it completely, but only when i watched the movie after, that was when i understood the anime ending
I saw Eva when I was 12 and Shinji resonated with me having all the shitty whirlwind of emotions and respnsibilities. Growing up, I resonated with Misato more but I think I'm slowly turning into Ritsuko. Hope as I grow older I dont turn out as Gendo 🤣
Finally someone who's actually a real one, garnt sums it up beautifully. If you're watching it as a show and for the story then it's shit, if youre watching it purely for the emotions and as a piece of art then its great. I watched it for the story not knowing it was meant to be an art piece sort of show and thought it was ite, like a 5/10. Animation held up really well over time, action was fun, very dark. But story is awful, doesn't resolve pretty much anything, if you don't watch the film and just watch the main show it doesn't even finish, you get that clapping scene and then the show ends, you never learn any of the secrets and the villains never get beat or even really shown on screen. It is still the only time in my whole time watching anime where I've had to watch an ending explained vid and I watched two different ones and they both explained it differently so it's all kinda just whatever you think happened is equally valid
Evangelion is one of those shows that has a lot of great ideas stringed together with very little coherence. The mangaka pretty much winged the series as he went along so it makes sense that it’s confusing to most people. But if you just look at it for what it was trying to do, it’s pretty damn profound. I still believe the End of Evangelion is one of the greatest movies/works in the genre and the anime would be a goat contender if it had been planned towards that ending from the beginning
In the year it came out it was somewhere between an 8/10 - 10/10 instant classic. Obviously nowadays you wouldn't exactly critique it the same way. Especially given the fact that Gurren Lagan was basically the same sort of thing but better in every way.
Since Eva is one of those series that everyone reacts to differently, it has entered the zone where number ratings are practically moot. It’s a solid 👁️/10 show
I don't think it's pretentious I think it's more cause it's a Mish mash of weird iconography, philosophy, and it's narrative, it's made the fanbase and discourse around it very pretentious. As someone that still doesn't really "get" Evangelion but still enjoys it enough
agreed. The main reason I don't like it is because the fans are pretentious "if you don't like it you just didn't get it and thus your brain is smaller than mine". Like no I got it I just didn't like it that much because it's not what I wanted from the show.
Exactly evangelion isn't pretentious, the fans are. Up until the last like 3 or 4 episodes it was a good show.
@@luxaeterna365 Yesss this is my thought too. Being told "You just don't get it" when you say you dislike something is the exact definition of the word "pretentious". When people talk BS about Shinji's depression and social anxiety being a representation of Hideaki Anno's personal struggles, then moan about Mushoku Tensei's Rudeus and his flaws, when the whole point of the frickin' story is supposed to be about his slow redemption from being a piece of sh*t to becoming an actual genuinely good person.
only lonely people (the target audience) seem to get it
I mean... Being a weird mismatch of philosophy and avant garde vibes... Is pretty pretentious.
I like Eva but it's the kind of show I will never recommend to anyone as it's a hard sell. Especially as it has a bell curve of whiplash between drama, the "slice-of life" episodes, and psychological mind curve.
If you wanna watch Eva, do it. But don't go into it via the recommendation of others or with any sense of expectations.
That’s what I always said. It was my favorite anime ever but I would never recommend it. It’s not easily digestible and has a lot of fumbles story wise but to you and me it’s as an artistic expression of trauma and loneliness
Yeah like I enjoyed it but it's definitely not for everyone, especially with the awful ending that really drags down the show.
Almost could not agree less. Almost everyone that watches anime has some idea what to expect for it by this point, and you're honestly underselling your friends if you think they can't handle a show that has tonal shifts. Out of the shows I have recommended to my friends it has been one of the more successful ones, I mean there is a reason why it is still pretty popular in 2024.
It's super easy to recommend to anyone cause at least first 2/3 of the subj is solid and entertaining action. Eva works as action amazingly. Then the story becomes more complex but to this point I believe you are either already engaged or not.
I only saw Evangelion like two years ago and from my perspective the story, as in the structured narrative, does not matter. All that matters is how the characters react to the events and what guides their decision making, aspects of the human psyche just laid bare for all to see with no care for progression, no concern for constructing a story, no interest to be a product, just a wish for introspection about oneself and how they relate to others, it's just venting about the horror of having to exist.
It really is like a cry for help like Garnt said, raw emotion, existential anguish, self-hatred, desperately asking how to be happy with no clear answer. It's not good because it's a good product, it's good because it's some of the closest of a true expression of a person that there is in the mass market, for that reason it can be impossible for some to resonate with it because they never had to deal with the very specific sort of questions that the anime poses, but for those that it resonates with, it really can change their lives probably because it helps them see that they aren't alone in their feelings.
It's so individual in fact that it's somehow did an underflow in the niche product scale and turned around into a big mass market appeal product just because it's so unique. It all just feels like a big accident, because it also doesn't seem care what you think of it, it even doesn't look like it was made for anyone to see, like a diary would be.
this comment didn't add much into the discussion. I feel the show made it pretty evident that it was a non local world and watching the EOS (show, not movie) basically spelled it out, that the characters reaction to events is the main premise. That's the story and it is constructed through the characters outlooks, adaptations, and developments. This really isn't anything new, most shows are constructed like this (a local world) Sopranos might be the most prominent example. So i really don't understand why its being brought up like its something original to eva.
@@Big_show_guy Yeah I'm just describing what I felt watching the original series + end of evangelion, without having much contact with the whole thing before doing that, perspective of a newbie if you will.
I don't think it's something original to eva, but what I'm trying to describe is not about narrative structure. Because it didn't feel like a story, it felt like someone expressing their reflections about life using these characters as hypothetical scenarios and asking how do we feel about that in our own lives, the structure of how that is laid out is just consequence of that. It's like all the characters are just one guy.
What's actually special about eva though I feel like is the context it was inserted in. It only exists as it does because of the very specific circumstances the creators were in, and that can't be replicated. Ofc every production has its special story and circumstances that made them what they are, but eva was also not the sort of thing people expected to see in the cultural mass market back then. What studio would even invest in such a niche idea, or even approve such a radical pivot that wasn't even part of the premise? These things are supposed to be made to sell merchandising, not make you wonder things about yourself, or be about the people making them.
It's not just experimental in this specific cultural niche, but also a rare example of an unexpected pivot in direction and creative vision during a highly troubled production that actually worked.
@@LealFireball I understand what you are saying better now and I completely agree. All I’ll say is that you hit the nail on the head on why it couldn’t really be replicated and why I believe the movie series (not EoE, talking about rebuild movies) just isn’t the same. It’s 20 years of growth in annos life being crammed into about 3 hours of addressing themes and characters he can’t even reflect himself onto properly anymore, since his frame of mind is completely different from what he originally started with.
The only reason you say the story doesn't matter is because it's shit.
You saw it recently and you get the picture. The plot almost doesn’t even matter. The characters their grief and inability to cope with the world is what screams off that screen ❤
Just the fact people are still arguing over it 27years later is crazy Evangelion love it or hate it Evangelion had a massive influence on anima as a whole and that alone is very impressive.
At the end of the day the finale is what it is because Gainax had no money to put into its production. Loose ends aside, Eva is a well written show.
They sounded even more pretentious talking about water than talking about Evangelion 😂
Right!
Evangelion isn't pretentious but Evangelion fans can be. On the other hand I think Evangelion haters can also be pretentious in their own way. The whole anti-intellectual/anti-art movement of "How dare you analyse or find meaning in something that I don't?" is ironically just as pretentious as the "You obviously don't get it!" crowd since it hinges on the belief that your way of experiencing something is objectively correct and superior to others. All of it comes across as people being incredibly self-absorbed and insecure.
Best comment I've seen on it. Its fine to not like it but acting like it isn't deep is being purposely ignorant or exposing that you haven't engaged with the show properly or are actually just dumb.
And then fans of the show feel they have to overcompensate for the loud disingenuous people and become pretentious about it
The style of Eva underappreciated. Everyone rightfully analizes the themes, story, lore and autobiographical aspects but you have to realize how fucking stylish it is. The Mech designs, character designs, monster designs, basically every design aspect of the world is GOATed. It's why you can watch Eva more superficially for the fun and the spectacle, even if you don't resonate with the themes. If the show looked bad and unappealing, it would never have the same longevity. I would comapare that aspect with something like Akira. Akira (at least the movie) might not have the same depth as Eva, but it lives on style (and great directing)
Evangelion isn't pretentious, it's fans are. They are the one's that try pretend Evangelion is something it isn't, just so they can pretend they like deep and complex stories.
I'm pretty sure the creator of Evangelion simply adding Biblical reference here and there just because they look cool without actually have deep understanding of what they put in. For me Eva is a complicated story but not a deep nor a great one.
I get where you're coming from, the fanbase to any series will always be annoying, but if Evangelion isn't deep then I don't know what is. It literally has entire scenes dedicated to going into the psyche of its characters, exploring their trauma and explaining why they act the way they do. They're basically therapy sessions for the characters (and sometimes also for people who relate to them) which as far as I've seen is as deep as fiction can possibly get.
I'm asking out of curiosity, not fishing for stupid arguments, but what would you consider a series that is deep, and why?
@@piratesinspace4989 Pepper pig has entire scenes dedicated to going into to the psyche of its characters, exploring their trauma and explaining why they shouldn't act the way they do.
I think the much of the gripe is with the majority of the fanbase who pretends to understand it because they want it be part of the club and then there’s those who straight up admit that they don’t understand it and expect us to believe that it’s genuinely their favorite show which sort of implies that their reasoning for liking it is shallow or pretentious.
Here’s a good indicator that the fanbase are posers: they spend more time talking about how good the show is than they do the actual contents and themes of the story.
The fans are bad but It is pretensions it spends it whole runtime making the viewer suffer through random things that are never explained and meaningless christian imagery + shinji is insufferable + it uses underage chars for fanservice.
Im sure it was good at the time (not saying much tbh) but it hasnt aged well.
I think much of the hate for Evangelion comes from the feeling that it is more of a piece of art than it is a show. And it somehow became way more popular than it was supposed to be and because of this popularity, the average person will go into it expecting it to be far more appealing and comprehensible than what the creator originally intended. It’s like being told you’re going to the movie theater to watch this really awesome movie and then instead you’re taken to a fancy museum or gallery where a group of people are obsessing over a painting that is just a bunch of random abstract shapes and colors splashed on a canvas and they’re acting like it’s the greatest thing they’ve ever seen. Like one of them is crying over it and someone else is on their knees praying to it. And since you’re there, you want to understand what it means and what all the commotion is about and so you ask one of them and they just respond by saying “you either get it or you don’t”.
man evangelion was released almost 30 years ago , and its still as populair as ever , surviving the impact of time is the best argument when discussing if something is a masterpiece more then anything else ,its not populair cuz its art or whatever , its just a good show its just that good , i remember the first time i watched , it wasn't recomaded to me or anything and i wasn't expecting anything , i just watch it by luck , and i enjoyed the heck out of it , it might not be the best show ever , but its certainly very good , its very famous , and one of the top animes in score
It's kinda true though, you kinda just get it or don't. Personally I don't think I would've ever gotten the point of Eva if I didn't watch it at the time I did. Though I am not crying over it nor do I think it's the greatest piece of fiction ever created but I liked it.
@@alaa341g I was enjoying it too because it seemed to set up a cool world but the ending was just so atrocious and unsatisfying that I feel like it wad a bad april fools joke or that I was being punished for making the effort of investing any thought into understanding the details or concepts of the world and immersing myself in any kind of plot that it was trying to tell. Even with The End of Evangelion I was still like uhhhh is that it? I feel like a good story balances the literal with the metaphorical 50/50. The themes and philosophy are supposed to complement the more grounded and tangible story and vice versa. But with Evangelion it’s like 90% metaphorical and 10% tangible so of course the conclusion didn’t feel satisfying because the tangible aspect was clearly not a priority to the writer so why bother writing something that the audience can realistically follow along with? Tbh I haven’t watch it in a good while but those are my feelings that it left me with. Idk maybe this is the problem with a show that only has 27 episodes trying to deliver such a grand and philosophical message.
@@TinkerTailorSailorTy It's so depressing to see this show get milked and commodified to absolute death with the amount of merchandise it has. Merchandise which ultimately served the purpose the show tried to criticize in the first place. View it a piece of art, but let's get real here, it is a franchise that appeals to the otaku market with it's sexualized -underage- characters, loser relatability, and fandom appeal. Even its rep as an artistic anime got wrapped up and sold back to us as a product. I love Eva but it's not hard to see why despite it's supposed avant garde quality, it managed to garner otaku fans who aren't even into subversive art and lit. or even just well-read.
Best explanation of Eva I've seen, thanks
To me, Evangelion ultimately is one of those franchises that's gonna REALLY depend on the person watching it.
I think I can still recommend it simply for its importance, but I can't blame people for not liking it. It's...a LOT to take in. And I say this as someone who went through an Eva obsession for a good solid year (let's just say, I felt pretty burnt out on reddit).
But it really spoke to me in a way nothing else ever did. Warts and all.
Nice Bojack reference. You've got a taste
@@kickasscowell5654 Huh. Didn't catch that. And I've SEEN BoJack too.
On that note, yeah, I also associate Eva and BoJack. It helped that I watched it after Eva.
I used to think eva was my favorite anime because of its themes of loneliness and connection but that changed because I grew up out of that same phase. Ngl it was an acid trip to watch the first time around. But I now find myself in the same boat of those who call it pretentious because the internet seems to glorify it (which makes sense because loneliness is very common now and I guess now everyone finds shinji relatable) then not move on, which is ironically the point of the whole thing
As a Japanese person, I can speak about the general evaluation of Evangelion in Japan: This work is said to be the first work that has the theme of characters interacting with the world and other people, based on high-quality images and music that induce tension, excitement, and depression. It is also great that it leaves many ambiguous depictions open to philosophical and religious interpretations by viewers. Whether or not that interpretation really matches the intention of the creators is another matter.
Within the context of the time when Evangelion was released, it was a very striking media. The aesthetics are on point and very unique, and the depressing tones presented in the show were refreshing, it was very rare to see a "cartoon" that exposed these edgy elements in an actioned packed fashion. Nowadays, there are shows that have done a better job at telling this kind of dark stories, however, I think that the aesthetics of Evangelion are still enjoyable nowadays, not the storytelling, for sure, not even in the movies.
Evangelion got me when I was 10 years old (yes I saw this anime when I was young, then I watched it when I was 18 and I remembered that It existed and had a story that I've never ever been told), it resonated well with me, just seeing the depressing parts of that anime and also having a soft spot in my heart means that it achieved what it was trying to say all along...
For that I say, only (RESPECT)-Hideaki Anno truly was a storyteller for the ages...
Eva is a show/movie that is more about how the characters deal with the awful situation they find themselves in. The overarching story doesn't really matter, and it doesn't need to make sense imo. Anno is trying to portray to you characters that are human, he's not really trying to tell you a traditional story. The story is used as a vehicle to put the character in an awful scenario and show how different characters react and interact in that scenario. People hate Shinji, but he is a literal child that has dealt with parental trauma all his life. Is it right that he acts the way he does, no. Is it understandable, yes. At the end of the story, Shinji does actually grow up and learn that the way he acted and the choices he made were not necessarily the best, and he has a chance to make things right and become a better person and the person he wants to be. Like just look at the end of 3+1 it basically said the setting and events did not matter, it literally shows eva as a set in a building and at the end he puts the characters in a normal Japan setting. Anno could've put these characters in a different genre with a different story, with similar scenarios, and it would not change the message that he was trying to get through or what he was trying to portray.
Evangelion is like the Seinfeld of anime. In its time it was revolutionary for its style, characters, themes...it was and is truly a masterpiece objectively. However, over the decades since, many other anime have taken parts of it, and in some ways have done even more interesting things with those parts, to the point where going back to watching Eva itself afterwards can leave one with opinions of being less impressed by it.
As a Kamen Rider fan, I hold a similar stance on Ryuki. Revolutionary series at the time. Rider vs Rider in a Battle Royale style had never been done before up to that point. But my entry point was Decade where it was basically the main character's job to merc all the legendary and iconic Riders from that time. It was hard for me to appreciate a show about a reluctant hero doing the same thing with a relatively generic set of Riders.
Looping it back to Eva, long story short, timing is everything. If it's your first "mature" anime, it's going to leave a hell of an impression. If you're visiting it after you've been around the block a bit, you're likely to find that by today's anime landscape it's simply not mature enough. Mileage varies by how well 'traveled' you are. Go figure.
Evangelion fans are beyond ridiculous, it's objectively a masterpiece? Stop with the nonsense.
@@miyamotomusashi6450 Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less of a masterpiece of its medium. I don't like Moby Dick, but that doesn't make it any less of a classic. 🤷♀
@@monkibro art is subjective. An objective masterpiece doesn't exist. Shouldn't you have learned the difference between an opinion and a fact already?
@@miyamotomusashi6450 Would you call the Mona Lisa a "subjective" masterpiece? No, because regardless to the fact that art is subjective, there are some cases where we commonly agree that a thing is worthy of its status even if there are a few contrarians who think differently. Again, I'm not disagreeing with your right to say something is or isn't worthy of its accolades. But to make a point of going against the grain just for the sake of being contrarian is nothing short of asinine.
@@monkibro I'm not trying to be contrarian, we're not talking about people being dishonest about their opinions, that's unrelated to the discussion. Btw, the Mona Lisa isn't an objective masterpiece either, it's based on opinion. If someone says: "the Mona Lisa is a masterpiece" do you really think that statement is literally a fact?
The final episode of Evangelion is literally the thesis statement of the show superimposed onto dialogue within the show. It’s rather clear what the point of the last episode was, but the etherial nature of the episode probably didn’t help.
Pretentiousness tends to be very vapid, shallow gesturing to deeper meaning, without communicating it well or substantively.
It feels intentionally obtuse to appreciate as to create an “in crowd” to looking at this stuff.
It also likes to suggest that there is a much greater gap between those who “get it” and those who don’t. I’d say, most people can recognise well made media. People aren’t dumb. People will just tend to get more out of media depending on how much time they spend with it.
Nobody should want to go to a modern art gallery and be explained as to why something is artistically impressive. At that point, I’m basically appreciating the backstory to some banana taped to a wall, not any impressive part of the craft. That’s an example of an actual barrier to entry. You very rarely can appreciate a work without being told it’s backstory first. I think Eva dips into this area in places, but then again, they over correct with the more blatant endings later. That being said, the writing departs from very literal understandable events and I think that’s why people get annoyed at the end.
You can talk about Eva without sounding pretentious. Look at a character’s arc, like Shinji’s and just look at where he goes from beginning to end. Try to refer only to his actions, his dialogue, his relationships with the other characters. Keep it simple and don’t pull in any broader themes yet. Might get a bit difficult towards the end where the events become very vague.
The funny thing is I actually watched the end of evangelion when I was like 14 before I actually watch the show, and none of it made any sense I was like OK I have to watch the show. And I wasn’t hooked immediately but I was like OK I’ll see where this is going and then like the last half of the show just completely lost me and I really didn’t like the show that much at all be on the visuals and the amazing opening, because to me at the time Evangelion did was it spent all this time building up this world, just to destroy everything by the end of the show. And then I watched it a few years later when they announced the final movie was coming out and I love it.
I do agree with Connor that it is possible to get the showing that like it but I got to say most people who don’t like the show and trash it don’t get it😂.
I just found it really boring and weird, not even including the last few episodes. I didn't care for any of the characters or anything that happened, in the beginning I was interested in figuring out what was happening in the world but that disappeared quickly.
You are only pretentious when you start thinking your opinion is suddenly superior after liking or not liking something
I can respect Connor and Joey's take on sparkling water and smoothies. They're completely wrong though.
Facts, ifI can't drink water as fast as my esophagus will allow, I won't drink it
Garnt’s argument for sparkling water is the EXACT SAME as Connor’s argument for room temperature water over ice water!!! (Carbonation/cold temperature prevents you from drinking more faster)
They held that shit over his head as the worst take of the year, wtf? 😝
@@Blucham Room temperature water tastes like shit is the main difference
I understand it. The ending was literally just my 3am thoughts, and I hated seeing them on screen as the end to a story. It was really awful because it disrupted what the story was and had been up to that point, and everything just happened. I get why it happened and what the creator was going through, but I do not like the original Eva at all. That ending screwed up the story for me, and threw in all these weird elements that all come out of nowhere. Like I see the thought process for it and why, but seeing it put on screen was just not enjoyable. That visual image was definitely helpful. Again, I get it, but I just don't like it. Very much a 4 out of 10. Both the movie and ending episodes were just yuck for me and lose the structure of the story.
It's why I haven't tried the new movies. I just don't like or want that experience again when I can just stay up til 3am and my own mind will give me its own unique kaleidoscope of intrusive thought and depression intermixed with fantasies about getting the waifu and having a life. To me, Eva just ended badly with unorganized thoughts. It was interesting to see once, for the outside perspective, but I never need to see it again, ever.
It was interesting for what it was, but it wasn't good in my opinion.
The espresso plus sparkling water is the OP morning order. You can sip the espresso and then actually hydrate with the bubbles. Helps you not get the coffee runs too
Short version : Evangelion is Art, everyone feel in a personal way about it
I recently finished the series. And I can’t stop thinking about it. Its definitely was one of the most impactful media I’ve ever consumed. If you’re not attached to the characters or relate to anything you’re seeing on the screen, then it’s understandable that you’d be underwhelmed. But for me personally, it resonated with me deeply.
These 2 clowns got on to garnt for saying the same thing about the carbonation in soda on a past episode 😂
Connor once defended room-temperature water over ice water, and got voted the WORST take of the year. And now, Garnt uses his EXACT same argument to defend still water over sparkling water! (Carbonation/cold temperature prevents you from being able to drink more faster)
@@Bluchammeh I like my water in room temperature,cold one usually sting my gum.
Exactly
Garnt’s defense of sparkling water is the EXACT SAME as Connor’s defense of room temperature water over ice water!!! (Carbonation/cold temperature prevents you from drinking more faster)
They held that shit over his head as the “Worst Take of The Year,” so wtf? 😝
It's easy talking about Evangelion like that now, but it would have been different watching it in the 90': we had nothing quite like it back then.
As someone who only watched all of Eva after all the Rebuild films came out, I gave every main anime entry a 10/10 each (except death and rebirth on its own). Mostly because they all tell the same message, but with wildly different approaches.
I thought og Eva's ending was hilariously amazing. Sitting through the last 2 episodes was a trip worth experiencing, and the iconic "congratulations" into an abrupt end was great.
End of Eva just spitting in the audiences face was absolutely hilarious. Honestly, my favorite for how much of a laugh i get out of it.
The rebuild films just were a great tied ribbon to the main story of the franchise. Getting to see the last rebuild film in theaters for the first time is an experience I'll never forget.
I will say, though, I get why people would be angry at any entry in the franchise, especially if you're someone that watched the series as it aired.
A lot of eva fans don't seem to accept that evangelion simply isn't for everyone, and that attitude is what makes liking eva seem pretentious
Connor is spot on, saying "you either get it or you dont" IS the pretenciousness that people talk about. You can understand something and not like it, the pretenciousness comes from that statement.
but that's not pretentious, you can say the same thing about relating to a character or not, it's very dependent on the person and what they already understand.
I don't think it's pretentious to try to understand Evangelion or to try to give meaning to some parts of it, I think most people that don't really understand don't want to understand at all. And when someone tries to explain it it just sounds pretentious. A good example is Garnt and Connor, they don't get it at all, meanwhile joey understands it and has seen the series and the movies a few times but joey's trying to defend his side like he is the one who's wrong even though he's probably the one that knows more about the show.
I don’t think any of them understand what the word pretentious actually means.
Eva is not that deep or pretentious the problem can be some fans. Sometimes they give some iconography and the fans crank it to another level 😅
I remember when they revealed they used Christian iconography just because it looks dope 😂
I think the problem is haters saying it isnt deep at all so the fans have to "overcompensate" or maybe theyre just sound like they are which starts this whole war. People missplace the deepness to the plot or lore when its about the characters. So if you cant relate to them then you miss out on the "deepness".
I think it goes both ways. 🤔
personally think it is an anime culture problem where the community makes judgments of value depending on your taste.
Not every piece of media is related to everyone and liking a "deep" anime doesn't make you smarter.
Anno never said that Christian imagery was used because it was cool
“There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool.” (Tsurumaki, 2001, member of the creativeteam)
Eva is still one of the most sincere pieces of animation.
“I tried to include everything of myself in Neon Genesis Evangelion - myself, a broken man who could do nothing for four years. A man who ran away for four years, one who was simply not dead. Then one thought. ‘You can’t run away,’ came to me, and I restarted this production. It is a production where my only thought was to burn my feelings into film.”
- Hideaki Anno (quoted in Stewart-Ahn, 2019)
@@PXE-w3r
@@PXE-w3r “There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool.” (Tsurumaki, 2001, member of the creativeteam)
I like my water without pretentiousness or bubbles
Evangelion is basically a rip-off of Ultraman, Devilman & Ideon mixed with Anno's inner mind. And it's perfect. Then he made The End of Evangelion for all the people like Connor (and the people sending him threats).
I know this was mainly about Eva but the sparkling water take is crazy. It tastes like tv static in my mouth
0:48 and this is why people say it’s pretentious. “You either get it or you don’t” always sounds like “you either like it or you’re stupid!”
Connor's analogy was on point actually.
I loved all the world building until episode 21 where everything went into ambiguity which I absolutely hated
That's interesting, because I find that this is around the point where the real emotion comes out - for me, episode 22 is the best episode in the show, because of the huge amount of clarity it gives about Asuka who hides her feelings for the whole show - quite the opposite of being ambiguous like you suggest. Yes, you have to be paying some attention to see some of the details, but the details are there, especially with the flashbacks to episodes 9 and 16 which basically show you who Asuka really is. Episodes 25 and 26 I can understand being very ambiguous, but I think that's partly why we got EoE, which very much clarifies the actual events of episodes 25 and 26, especially regarding the fate of things in the real world up to the 3rd impact and the actual choices that Shinji made, and why.
But I think this just confirms what they are saying about the show; some people just don't like that sort theme, and it's not what they were going in wanting to see. So when the surface level plot of weekly eva vs angel fights goes away, and you are just left with the real themes (mostly of how dysfunctional all the characters are), it must seem to many that it suddenly became a pretentious, ambiguous, messy show. And it's fine if you don't like that - it just means eva wasn't meant for you.
Eva is weird because most people go into it expecting a mecha show about saving the world, but it only becomes apparent at the end that saving the world is the B story. The A story is the emotional development of the characters, which a lot of people either dont get or just dont like.
I never understood this, I came in expecting the weirdness and got exactly what I wanted out of the ending,this show would have been super forgettable without it for me, if it ended at cool fights and monsters it would have been no different to me than any other okay mech anime.
true bro, i want everything to make perfect sense all the time. i want everything explained to me because thinking about things hurts my brain. true bro.
@@tyler-xo3rb Insane strawman argument. I absolutely love mystery when done right like steins gate, aot till s3 and death note. The aim of mystery and ambiguity is to engage and excite the viewer and entice them to theorize. then reveal info bit by bit or in bulk, by the end everything should be clear. that's absolutely not what happened with eva in the last 6 episodes. the questions kept increasing with little amount of clarity.
The end of eva movie did fix a lot of that but unfortunately I already didn't like the idea of the joined and connected consciousness beforehand. which I'd say is more of a subjective critique. the last 6 episodes of the main tv show should have definitely been remade entirely in my humble opinion. the production and idea definitely had a lot of potential that was wasted
I would give Evangelion an 8/10 if I were to rate it. It's a great show, especially for its time. I find more to like about it each time I see it. It's a story that captures what Hideki Anno was going through at that time. In that way, it's very powerful and a big reason for why it has left such a big impact on people. It's not my personal favorite, but it did lay the groundwork for other anime I love. It should be respected as a piece of art, but it isn't going to be a masterpiece for everyone who views it. And that's okay. :)
I watched Evangelion all over again (including the rebuilds) and i think that EVA has a lore problem. Too much stuff to be aware of and most of it i don't know if it was explained. Sometimes you need to have a wiki open to enjoy it the most.
I watched dubed this time (LATAM spanish) just to be aware of the most stuff and i think i like EVA even more. The emotional themes are the best parts (like the final episodes).
I would really like a laid back spin off though, maybe an OVA slice of life OR a version with the second Rebuild vibe
I think it depends on why you're watching the show. If you go into it trying to understand the philosophy of it, it's really good. Especially if you need that.
The studio ran out of budget. That's why they did the last two episodes like that. But considering that, the last two episodes are undeniably pieces of art. The heavy constraint of the situation produced something we wouldn't have gotten anywhere else.
And loose threads/unexplained elements do not make a story bad.
Garnt is right about either getting it or not. Everyone simply has a different perspective. It's the same with Serial Experiments Lain. When I watched it, I thought it wasn't as deep as people made it out to be. 😅 It was still great for me though. You just absorb what you can, and feel what it makes you feel... Then zone out into the void afterward while questioning your existence. 😂
Evangelion made me realise "good" and "popular" anime are two different categories
If nothing else Evangelion like Bayformers is still worth watching for the cool robot battles alone regardless of questions of logic or artistic merit.
BASED DRINK MAXXING CONNOR
if a fan tells you Eva is a deconstruction of mech anime then they are being pretentious, its actually a love letter to the genre
I don’t like carbonated water bc it’s usually too strong and makes it not only taste extremely sour but also hard to swallow
pause
It's because no one ever says why it's good, only that "if you get it, you get it", or vague statements like that. "Oh it's a masterpiece" "why?" "either you get it or you don't" well what did you get?its like people don't want others to appreciate it. Notice how in the entire video not one thing or instance in the show was mentioned.
Not everything is quantifiable. There are things I like that I can’t explain the reason for.
eva 02 going berserk its pretty epic.
Just pilot the damn robot shinji
I think GIGGUK found more meaning and sense in the story of EVANGELION than its own creator.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Eva is like sometimes Gundam, sometimes slice of life, and then you just get hit with Homunculus, Punpun, Flower of Evil, Trail of Blood etc etc...
Is what I think its like I never watched it am I correct on this probably not tho
I didn’t love Evangelion from an enjoyment standpoint. But I do think it is a a very great piece of art. I actually thought the ending was super meta and gave me a lot to ponder on.
It's funny, I remember as a kid it was early 2000s can't specifically remember what year, but a TV station in the UK had picked up on the success of things like Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z and Digimon so they started running their own anime segment for kids...when it first started they had 3 anime those were Martian Successor Nadesico, Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion.
I remember being 6 episodes in before they changed the lineup to I don't even remember what...so about 6 weeks that lasted on whatever channel it was in the UK where Neon Genesis Evangelion was legit running as a Saturday morning cartoon show for kids and that was my first exposure to it 😂
Showing Evangelion to a new anime fan is like showing a Bach piece to someone who only listens to Taylor Swift. It requires a certain ear and admiration different from the average anime one would typically see. Ifykyk
I hate the story of Evangelion. But I do like how it is a cry for help. It is just art done in a unique way and for that I have massive respect for it
Eva is the easiest ragebait. You either like it, dont like it, or pretend to not like it because you need those twitter/youtube revenue.
The first time I watched Eva was 10 years ago and my opinion about it has certainly changed over the years, maybe aging or maturing made me see it a bit different, but I still think is pretty good defined not a 4 lol
Gigguk got my sell on Evangelion perfectly. Too many peolpe expect it to be a "highly praised story that is good or bad" but it truly is just best looked at as a work of art. It's the authors darkest emotions and viewpoints turned into a world and characters. Not everything is supposed to make sense, not everyone is supposed to grow and develope because that's not how real life works in a jaded persons world view especially. It's just there to resonate with you on an emotional level. Noone is truly supposed to be trying to deep dive into each individual angels lore, why humans were turned into giant mechs, or make sense of what the plot of the ending is supposed to be. It's about those emotions and viewpoints mashing together like a emotional breakdown and mental resolution at the end. That's why even the ending of the rebuilds is just the characters moving forward with life like the author wants to.
I love series like this, Sonney boy, and Fooly Cooly, the depth is there if you're looking deep "plot wise" but it's supposed to be the Art and Emotion of it that "makes sense". It's mostly the fans and overall massive reputation as a well known great series that makes the series feel pretentious.
joey and connor sound more pretentious talking about liquid velcro than anyone I've heard talk about eva
I like that description, so accurate. Ive also heard it described as spicy water. I could never drink regular soda, maybe drinks with the tiniest amount of fizz. It just felt like my tongue and throat were getting pins and needles.
Besides the psychological themes of the story, people tend to forget how different it was from everything available at the time it was launched.
The "mech" designs; a pilot who refuses to be the hero; the introduction of the definitive Tsundere, in Asuka; the trend it set on having a quiet, normally blue haired, mysterious girl, among many others.
All those things were innovative for their time. If we think they're common nowadays, it's because of Eva. Add to that the quality of the animation and what was said, about your either "getting or don't" and that's why it is considered a masterpiece.
You may not like Eva, but it's influenced cannot be denied.
Okay but hear me out. The last episode is almost completely unanimated. Portions of it are basically a voiced over power point presentation lmao.
Thats why the real ending is the movie
I guess you would have to have a near identical mindset to the original creator.
I've struggled, fought some pretty harsh personal battles. Crossed path with suicide on more occasions than I care to count... and I still didn't understand Evangelion.
Honestly the ending felt like a mess.
I've always wondered what's so deep or revolutionary about Evangelion. Like, you can see more or less the same themes and tropes many many years before in Gundam, Ideon, etc. I guess it's just as Garnt says, you got to resonate with it
Most western anime fans never watched those shows that Ano is directly building on. So it's a cultural barrier.
waifus. the answer is waifus. And the OP (I'm only half joking)
I saw Evangelion years after seeing Eureka 7 on Toonami. Despite being awfully similar I ended up liking Eureka 7 much better. Studio Bones and the show's OST really made it stand out amongst all the other mecha shows. And then it flopped real hard after its initial 50 episode serialization. Kinda don't even want to see the rest of what the IP has to offer from how panned it was with near ubiquity. Might give the PS2 games a try out of curiosity some day but that's it. That's one thing I liked about Evangelion, to me it maintains a solid score in my mind across everything I've seen. Most of my critiques of both of these shows are more of an endictment of the medium as a whole where when you make a show lots of aspects about said show will end up getting type casted into established tropes. Challenging convention is what intrigues me now. I think that's why something like Avatar The Last Airbender still hits so hard to me half a lifetime later because the writers were so self aware of all the cookie cutter aspects of the medium that they often made excellent jabs at it by utilizing subversion. First example that sprung to mind was the beech episode.
I think Connor was spot on because we're having fun and playing with the toys and playing games like the characters were complex, the animation was great, and the many of the mysteries of the world of evangelion were captivating but then they just drop the cake and the finale and nothing the anticipation of the conclusion to the characters the world the story is ruined, nothing is explained and it ruins the first half of the story
If you resonate with it then good
I like EVA for cool womb robots, art style is aesthetically pleasing, and Misato
Im with Gigguk on Sparkling water, its just wrong.
Honestly I have no opinion.
Honestly the bravest thing anyone can say online.
Now I gotta check out Neon Genesis Evalgelion
Evangelions ending was perfect. Shinji’s character was always the core of the story, and it's resolution was the only one needed.
Evangelion is one of the biggest examples of one of the most 'not for everyone' kind of anime ever made. You're either going to resonate with the characters, find them interesting or completely hate them. You'll either find the weird storytelling cool and interesting or nonsensical and pretentious. Not to mention the weird stigma where people that think mecha isn't about the characters until they find one they like and say, "But this one's not like the others! It's about the characters, not the mechs."
I don’t like Eva, but it’s a show people should definitely watch because it gives different perspectives people view when watching Eva. For me however- I didn’t like it and I found the characters pretty bad
I don't think that's true. You can understand what the characters are going through and still be indifferent to them. I was able get what they were going through but I still don't like them very much.
@@idkwhattonamethisshtiI didn't comment on being able to understand them
I made that Bojack Eva "comparison" a couple years ago.
Never thought it would end in the show, i watched this clip by pure luck lol
Neon Genesis Evangelion might be the best example of filmmaking in the anime medium. Or Tomino Gundam.
Hayao Miyazaki's movies? GitS?
@@petouser I was talking mostly about television, but I would agree
I love how half the clip is Evangelion and the other half is Connor complaining about apple juice
A 4/10. Hmmm nah. More like 6-7/10. Its not peak 9/10
I hate I have EvA as a 10 because no one can see my MAL without thinking I'm a pretentious weirdo, I just really like the show 😅
I don’t simply dislike sparkling water, I hate it to the point I don’t want it sold anywhere just because of the 0.1% chance I mistakingly buy a bottle of it
i love eva and it is quite nostalgic for me so it will always have a special place in my heart. but recently i dont feel any need to rewatch it because i am mentally in a better place than i was 7 years ago and no longer have as much of a relation to the characters. it's interesting to grow up and change while such a big representation of my past stays the same. i understand why people dont enjoy it. it would be like isekai anime for me, i dont like isekai stories because they dont offer anything interesting or relatable to me.
As someone who watched the first episode of Evangelion four or five times before moving on to the rest of the series-and then continued watching, hoping to understand things at some point-I eventually finished the show, watched the recap movie, watched End of Evangelion and all the movies that followed. After that, I even read the manga. And at some point I just accepted that Anno didn't create all of that so people would eventually 'get it.'
It's just feelings being expressed through art. And that is what makes it pretentious.
Edit: totally agree with the hot take tho. Action scenes and the way fights are directed is fucking awesome, but everyone in the show keeps doing the worst thing at every opportunity and fucking shit up.
It’s ironic how the guy with purple shirt ended up sounding pretentious.
As a person who hasn't been depressed for his entire life, Eva (including the movies) is a 7/10 at best.
As a person who has been depressed most of his life, Eva is a 7/10 at best.
As a person that was depressed while watching evangelion, Eva is a 5/10 at best.
As a person who got depressed watching evangelion, Eva is a 10/10 at best.
As being 12 when I saw it in the late 90's, I am 370/10 at best
As a person who had high expectations and no depression while watching, Eva is a 7/10 at best
I was drinking sparkling water when watching this video.
I just finished NGE, and I agree it is roughly a 4/10 -- It fails at bringing the theme it wants to to the forefront because it lulls so much with other storylines that go nowhere, and it didn't resonate with me as someone that has depression, even if it was boringly simple - The genre of the show also does it a disservice -- The characters are dull and boring people as well, and don't matter, same with the "worldbuilding" in the show, the ending felt misplaced and weird and should have likely been spread out throughout the last ten episodes and so on, I didn't really enjoy it, and i understood what it was about haha.
I do believe the general fanbase of Evangelion is slightly pretentious. That said, complaining about pretentiousness is in itself kind of pretentious. Why do you as a viewer demand a creator, who has the most authentic vision for their creation in mind, make their creation more accessible to you. Why do you feel the need to complain about something that is fundamentally not meant for you and is rather meant for the author to share their ideas. If everybody thought this, art wouldn't exist. It irritates me that "Anti-intellectualism" (Don't really like the word intellectualism but it's the term so wtf right) is so deep rooted now that you get talked down to if you like anything remotely out of the ordinary. I got so much shit for reading fiction books that weren't self help, Harry Potter and or modern romance novels like Fourth Wing or Ice Breakers (Nothing against any of these books btw) when I was in the military. I would read The Plague by Albert Camus one day and the next day I would have to, embarrassingly, try to explain why I liked reading them like I was on trial or something. My answer is always the same for everything I like, I just like it or it was something with it that connected to me. I could explain more of what I like about it but I don't push it down people's throats. So I guess my final question is, why do people feel so entitled to talk about what people enjoy and don't enjoy? It just feels so unproductive and pretentious to drag people down for enjoying something that you personally don't.
This was such a long and stupid paragraph, but I do seriously believe that if we tailer make media into what is most broadly accessible, like what Connor seems to, for whatever reason, advocate for, we end up creating what the public wants and not what the author wants, and that's very, very bad. This obviously excludes hate speech but I would assume that if there actually is anyone willing to read this that they would understand.
At max, is a above-average anime, a decent watch with a banger opening with some good qualities, especially for the time when it was released
I had some very high and unfair expectations before watching this show because it was popular, so perhaps it´s why i don´t think so highly of it.
I´ve read more heavy and complex stories with even more unusual story telling, but evangelion didn´t sit right with me, the show completely and forcibly change gears in the middle all of a sudden, like it´s a different show, about the ending, it was...well...like it is, i didn´t get it completely, but only when i watched the movie after, that was when i understood the anime ending
What are the lose ends in Eva'a story?
I saw Eva when I was 12 and Shinji resonated with me having all the shitty whirlwind of emotions and respnsibilities.
Growing up, I resonated with Misato more but I think I'm slowly turning into Ritsuko. Hope as I grow older I dont turn out as Gendo 🤣
Finally someone who's actually a real one, garnt sums it up beautifully.
If you're watching it as a show and for the story then it's shit, if youre watching it purely for the emotions and as a piece of art then its great.
I watched it for the story not knowing it was meant to be an art piece sort of show and thought it was ite, like a 5/10. Animation held up really well over time, action was fun, very dark. But story is awful, doesn't resolve pretty much anything, if you don't watch the film and just watch the main show it doesn't even finish, you get that clapping scene and then the show ends, you never learn any of the secrets and the villains never get beat or even really shown on screen.
It is still the only time in my whole time watching anime where I've had to watch an ending explained vid and I watched two different ones and they both explained it differently so it's all kinda just whatever you think happened is equally valid
Evangelion is one of those shows that has a lot of great ideas stringed together with very little coherence. The mangaka pretty much winged the series as he went along so it makes sense that it’s confusing to most people. But if you just look at it for what it was trying to do, it’s pretty damn profound. I still believe the End of Evangelion is one of the greatest movies/works in the genre and the anime would be a goat contender if it had been planned towards that ending from the beginning
The ending of evangelion was how i felt towards the ending of devilman crybaby like legit why was it necessary to end it like that now my head hurts
No I completely agree evangelion is 5/10 at best
"It insists upon itself."
In the year it came out it was somewhere between an 8/10 - 10/10 instant classic. Obviously nowadays you wouldn't exactly critique it the same way. Especially given the fact that Gurren Lagan was basically the same sort of thing but better in every way.
If I just watched it once and didn’t look up theories/videos and did homework on Evangelion, I probably wouldn’t have liked it either.
Since Eva is one of those series that everyone reacts to differently, it has entered the zone where number ratings are practically moot. It’s a solid 👁️/10 show
I knew Connor's 4 drinks before he said them, this man is speaking FACTS
GARNT YOU MADLAD, YOU EXPLAINED EVANGELION!