No More Kilts Or Crop Tops?! (is this a good idea?) S14E44
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- In S14E44, we discuss weather or not it's a good idea to implement a dress code.
Song: Put The Knife Away - Goldfinger
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Shout out to Bree. Reasonable, grounded, confident. Doug and Ian are lost in the sauce, in my opinion. This is the exact type of conversation they would’ve had no time for a few years ago. Bree is right, it’s a slippery slope.
If you look at the extreme of this (Militaries) you can see that strict dress code, grooming and uniform standards help with discipline, BUT the reason for needing it is because it can be a matter of life and death. For a craft oriented BUSINESS, you do not want to alienate or exclude from your employee pool the creative individuals who value their personal identity and style. Militaries miss out on some of the most gifted and talented skilled workers because of those standards in certain fields, and falls behind in those fields bwcause of it. Wyrmwood does not have the need to miss out on those people, I would even argue that you need them, because they give you a competitive edge. Crazy Ed would be a perfect example. If you want to continue to retain and attract talent like that, a strict dress code and/or grooming standards is the wrong move.
+
I work as a Firefighter \EMT our uniform has a purpose, but I agree with Bree. In a creative environment you impact your people’s creativity when you impress uniformity. When you look alike, act alike, think alike you as an organization get stale. Yes when safety is important you require conformity for safety, you enforce standards that are not generally offensive and then go on, the other thing to think is that a uniform adds expense to the company, so why do it if there isn’t a need
The swing of wyrmwood (or at least what they show on wyrmlife) from anti-corporate to full corporate fascism has been surprising and sad. I guess they'll just be yet another factory, soon.
@@tearlywine Is it a swing or a necessary development as covered by the show? I'm.. pretty certain they've laid out a variety of reasons things needed to nudge this way, and more often than not, it's following rules and regulations and/or protecting their employees in some fashion. It's what happens when you grow as a company. You have to be more organized and responsible.
This has a huge vibe of "I'm a mangager, I have to manage...." Sometimes it's better left alone. Set safety standards and leave the fashion alone.
Agreed and disagreed... As a Safety Engineer, im used to designing safeguards to machinery. sometimes engineering controls are not enough and you have to go to "management" Administration controls. dress code can be an example of a admin control. as you said set safety standards and leave fashion alone, i think where wyrmwood should go with this is the minimum safety standard. dangling loose fitting clothing and accessories (such as tails) should not be allowed near any running equipment let alone a wood working facility. crop tops i could see for a wood working area if they are seeing first aid incidents where cuts to the mid section due to no clothing, but that could be eliminated to engineering controls.
TLDR; IMO Wyrmwood should define the safety standard (based on data and not opinion), then assign dress code appropriately based on those standards. which is what it sounds like they are in the process of doing.
@@safetymangames925 I could not agree more. You can come really far by just do the simplest stuff. Forbid lose hanging clothing, chains, etc. Stuff that can get stuck into machines etc. You do not need high vis etc in this work enviroment.
It's the hair net argument all over again. You don't see food workers with hair nets anymore 😆 You would find hair nets in the food.
@@shampoovta I used to work in a warehouse loading trailers with snack chips, we had to wear hairnets because production was in the same building, but behind a wall. we joked that the hairnets kept all the dirt off our hair.
There’s no quicker way to crush morale than uniforms or an unnecessary dress code. Matt brilliantly pointed out the hypocrisy of management to Doug by saying get rid of your hat and knife. Take it one step further. Tell all the managers and office employees they have to wear and suit and tie. Watch the dress code arguments dry up real fast. Doug also said something very wrong when he said “no individual is worth more than this company.” I want to work for a company who says “every individual is worth more than this company.” When employees no longer feel like people, they leave.
Yes, his argument the the whole is more important that the individual is clearly a signal that wyrmwood is headed in a corporate direction where the company is more important than any employee or employees in general, for their sake the employees better unionize now!!!! but really we have watched this trend when he (Doug) talks about employees pulling their weight and discuss their productivity. Or pontificating about crapping a in bucket to see his dream.
our high school metals shop didnt have a "dress code" but they DAMNED sure make sure there were certain safety guidelines followed. like all long hair being tied back.
Sounds like this is a solution in search of a problem.
Sounds like he is fishing for this to be a union shop. This is how unions start. 😄
This should be the top comment
very true.
It's fucking ridiculous. 'one person once wore a tail so now everyone needs a uniform"
@@BenRangel can tell you havent worked on a production floor of any kind. anything that hangs off of you or could get sucked in to something could be potentially hazardous or deadly. better to fix it now than when someone inevitably gets hurt
Studies show that when workers like their work culture and environment, their productivity improves. Best way I can think of to explain this to you: If you stick everyone in a uniform with a Wyrmwood logo on it, that shield on their chest won't magically make them feel more connected to Wyrmwood. It will make them feel used -- like a cog in a machine. A cool, fun work environment will lead to better results in production. This has been proven time and again.
People need some sense of control over their lives. It's instrumental to their happiness. By stripping them of the ability to choose what they wear to work, you are literally taking away a portion of that sense of control over their lives. I know it sounds overblown, but it's true. Wyrmwood is about to have a bunch of unhappy employees complaining about uniforms, and nothing else. No improvement in productivity whatsoever, and perhaps even a drop in productivity or in extreme cases an attrition of skilled workforce. It's a stupid move that serves no purpose other than to tickle someone's ego.
Like Bree said, unless you're a customer-facing company, there's no reason to have a dress code. As long as people take safety concerns seriously, let people wear what they want.
Even when customer facing, it kind of depends on which demographic you're selling to & what image you're trying to convey. In particular, many people, including 'professionals', think suits are just nonsense, worn by clueless, disconnected managers & executives who don't care about their employees or customers. For a company trying to exude a cool, hip, or down to earth vibe... suits are straight up poison. Ditto having any kind of uniform... uniforms are mostly associated with low paying, low skill jobs ala working at a fast food joint or big box retail store. Apologies to those in such jobs... but neither of those really demands a lot of respect... you don't expect a clerk at walmart to be an expert on anything.
Even then, there is no reason aside from safety. Dress codes exist ONLY for homogenization, and the de-individualization of the workforce. Uniforms ONLY work when every piece is interchangeable. Ask the armed forces of the world.
Agreed. If it isn’t a safety issue, wear what you want.
Wyrmwood IS a customer facing company via wyrmlife. And specifically via Wyrmlife. But I’d argue that’s a reason for more individuality:
Part of WHY people buy from wyrmwood IS that the company isn’t a soulless, uniform, machine, it’s a company of vibrant and nerdy craftspeople who are treated and recognized as individuals, with unique things to add to the company. Seeing weird clothes, kilts, tats, piercings, and bright hair is part of the brand that makes wyrmwood unique and attractive to a lot of your customers. Yes, you want your products to be roughly identical to meet standards, but part of what makes those nearly identical pieces FEEL unique and special is the people behind them. Your people policies add and subtract value from your product, especially for a lot of the customers you’ve cultivated.
If you want to change the brand, fine. But know that the new brand looks to be a lot closer to an assembly line of product made by cogs than handcrafted art made by people.
I'd bet 90% of wormwood's loyal customers would rather buy anything from someone dressed like Bree than Doug, any day.
"It's a waste of time." Based Briana on the dress code nonsense
Bree is telling them the truth. I hope they listen.
God, me too and I don't have stakes in this company beyond Wyrmlife.
I fully agree with Briana. As long as it does not pose a significant hazard compared to other options, there should be no policy against it.
Bree is right. Making people confirm to a shitty dress code makes people unhappy and pissed off.
A shitty dress code, maybe. But a reasonable dress code? I feel like long wallet chains, tails, frayed clothing, even really long loose hair is a safety hazard on a production floor
I agree with Bree as well; run a dress code that boils down to "don't wear stuff that is going to get sucked into a machine" and "try not to be flat-out offensive".
Wyrmwood cracking down on clothing for no reason aside from "because we said so" will lower morale and cause Wyrmwood higher employee turnover, which raises costs because you now have more hiring costs, more training, more ramp up time for the new employees to meet time standards, and more errors in runs because people are new.
@@solonys9775 i couldn't imagine quitting a job just because they told me I could wear a band t-shirt or something like that.
There is nothing wrong with a nice, breathable, and branded polo shirt for office workers, or a nice branded t-shirt for shop workers. that they wear 'mon-thursday and then friday is more casual.
I go to work every day, in a collared shirt and khaki pants, belt, tucked in and loafers. It is a desk job yes, but clients could come in at any point and our overall look is the 1st thing they see when they walk in the door. Friday is casual and laid back. Warehouse employees are totally different
@InTheFilth No one in the video was arguing for wearing things that are unsafe. Bree said if its safe then have at it, if not then it goes. That's the correct attitude. If its a safety concern then obviously don't wear it. But if it's not then who cares? Does the machine care if you wear a band tshirt? Does the wood? Does the customer who never sees you or knows about you care
there is a difference between dress code and ensuring safety...
should refocus to "SAFETY"
After wearing numerous types of uniforms over a dozen+ years all i can say is if you do force employees to wear uniforms, make sure the ones you choose are COMFORTABLE and don't force the employees to purchase them. Nothing pissed me off more than "you MUST wear this, but you also have to pay for it." In the end, safety should be the absolute number 1 concern because all it takes is one horrible injury to absolutely ruin someone's life and cost the company a ton of money.
Amen , i had that with safty shoes ,they give out the most horrible cheap pairs at some companys, and my feet would kill me at the end of the day. Than i bought premium once of my own and never used any they gave to me. some just feel as comfy as a heavyer sportshoe , but the comfort is about the same as a sportshoe instead of a safty shoes as in the normal sence of how they mostly look, like doc martins and heavy big weights dragging on you all day.
I would buy a Wyrmwood jumpsuit/coveralls.
At my work I have to wear uniforms and the company provides locker rooms and maintenance/laundry on uniforms at zero cost to employees.
I agree. Sadly and realistically it's likely somehow gonna be taken out of your salary some way as it's an expense for the company. But it'll cause more annoyance among employees if it's something you gotta buy than if they sneak it into the employee costs some way (such as lower raises) 😅
Offer uniforms but do not force them to be worn. Any restrictions should be on safety first and intended workplace culture second.
Tighter dress codes aren't necessarily bad when it comes to safety standards, but y'all are a woodworking company with a good culture of personal expression. Keystone was worth it alone for Crazy Ed, are y'all really gonna push people like that down? I mean, half your people wear kilts. Seems like an overstep coming from a good place.
Notable that Doug kept on going on about personal expression vs the good of the company, but at no point did he ever justify why that personal expression is at the expense of the company. If you point and want people to go in that direction, you need to be able to justify why you are pointing that way if you want happy workers
At 3:50 Ian explained some of his reasoning and the safety concerns they mentioned earlier. And concerning crazy Ed: PA has quite a strict dress code and work culture and they still have him.
@@distractme Seems like Doug has gotten a bit TOO wrapped up in whatever management books he's been reading.
@@diewollsocke2674 Tails, chains, and indecent exposure I'm cool with nixing as long as it comes from a safety/workers' wellbeing standpoint. Doug's points were much more ideological and hollow. Crazy Ed also still being at PA is kinda a point against the push for conformity as he's an A-player without being sterile.
I see why dough has changed his personal dresscode. I have the same role as he has. For company dresscode if you hadnt had it from begining dont enforce it! You can set as an optional but not required. For instance we are buying our guys work clothes each got 10 t shirts with our logo, 2 long workpants and 2 shorts. But we are hawing this from practical reason. Ewery of my guys needs to cary tape measure, pencil, red pen, utility knife and some personal items as phone and wallet. And we have chosen to do this frome pure practicality so our guys have apropritate workclothes so they can comfortably cary this things and if needed some extra withowt ewen looking for this stuf. they always know wher they put their stuf. Befoure we had this guys lost so many pencils and tape mesures on monthly basis than we now have to buy in a year just becouse things are wearing out.
Eroding quality of life for employee's is a surefire way of getting a union on the floor.
Yup there is no value in uniform except making ppl unhappy
@@whydidyoutubeaddthis This is just entirely wrong. Uniforms have a ton of value, including bypassing anyone's personal concerns about what clothing constitutes as acceptable clothing in the workplace. Depending on the uniform you can also ensure safety. And it doesn't matter for WW as much but you can ensure identity. So that your employees are always recognized as employees. They fulfil a similar function to a dress code while removing and personal ambiguity for what is or isn't within that code.
And if you think you should be able to do whatever you want everyone else be damned that is incredibly self serving and you should revaluate how you view others around you.
@@DiviNazuphus uniforms for the sake of uniforms are a waste of time as pointed out if uniforms have a purpose they are great such as safety for first responders or scrubs for a medical staff. A dress code all ready solves those offensive issues. Uniforms are costly and frankly are a wedge between the workers and their leaders.
Doug is fighting for this too hard. Briana is spot on.
👍
Its always a weird batch of cognitive dissonance when folks like Doug with libertarian tendancies are like pro uniform? Like huh?
Agreed. I feel that Briana's position encapsulates the spirit of the company.
Do you really wanna push to turn into just another soulless company?
If it doesn't effect safety, let it go.
To be fair any libertarian I've ever talked to is very confused. What's the meme?- they're like cats, fiercely independent but completely dependent on the system they don't understand.
Most "libertarians" only want liberty for themselves.
@@SinisterInfant
I find most, if not all production places in the UK will issue out aprons. This is to protect the clothing, have pockets to hold tools and colour (color) co-ordinate to identify roles/tasks but still allow people to come in dressed how they like while having some uniformity.
I actually lik this idea.
This could also solve the t-shirt/crop top safety issue.
Yes
That's the smartest way to go about this solution searching for a problem.
best answer I've seen
As someone who has worn uniforms and had the freedom to wear what I like (especially in non-customer facing roles) I'm 1000% with Briana on this. It's a waste of time that will cause more grief and the negatives will surely outweight the positives. Sure require people to wear stuff with safety in mind, like if they work on machinery that could grab and pull in stuff that dangles like a lanyard, tie....tail, then sure if you have to say sorry you can't wear that when operating X machinery I get it, but outwith that, there's just no need to go down the uniform route.
Bree's got it right. Being allowed the self expression to choose what you wear to work does help you feel valued on an individual level. I don't want to be another brick in the wall and the more ways the company I work for makes me feel like I myself matter the more happy I am to stay working with them. (Been at a 9-5 office job for a decade, changed from business dress every day with dress down Friday to dress down when the winters are bad to dress down every day to now we all work from home forever; great improvements over the years!) Bree also addresses safety concerns; if she's going to be doing something where part of her clothing will be in the way then it comes off.
Wow, this is a hard conversation that I never expected from wyrmwood considering the culture expressed in the early episodes. I honestly believe cracking down on your dress code will harm the advertising / geekdom Cred that wyrmwood has been operating on. Your (lack of) dresscode and individualism is highly highly valued by your viewers and makes your UA-cam series more interesting and makes management seem like they care about employee happiness.
Yeah, this. They're directly working against their brand message.
Hard truth to Dougie... I've lost respect for you since you decided to wear the monkey suit clothes. Your employees, many of who are geeks & gamers, have probably ALSO lost respect for you. You're right that choice of clothing projects an image... but you're reaching all the wrong conclusions from that axiom, & relying on outdated perspectives that don't match those of your customers, employees, or partners.
Wyrmwood: *Highlights the exquisite craftsmanship of their employees with Signature Series*
Also Wyrmwood: "We need our employees to look bland and boring."
Next year's edition: Wyrmwood Corporate Series. Bland, inoffensive woods, no discernible features, default logo plastered in the middle of the product, rounded edges for extra safety.
Literally no one wants to see that.
I used to work across from a multimillion dollar bakery, and I was friends with the owner. He explained to me that the hardest job to fill and keep employed is the one that gives zero ability to make choices. Everyone wants to feel creative and feel like they make a difference. So give them a way to be creative or make choices that affect things as a whole.
Bri looks awesome and adds to the culture. The freedom of expression is what gives the company a unique identity and I suggest to embrace it, safely.
I've always been attracted to Wyrmwood because it's cool stuff made by cool craftspeople. Doug wants factory produced parts and employees. I can get that from China.
Exactly!
To think you won't buy their products if they say no shirts or tails is a joke. I bet you don't research every company you buy from to check their dress code. Get a grip
bingo
@@jacobcalhoun3530 There is a difference between not doing research and ignoring what is put in front of you.
@@jacobcalhoun3530 it is clear that you don't have experience working for a company during their transition from "small, scrappy, startup" to "corporate, micro-manage-y, and out of touch".
This is a key step in that transformation, and I consider it a major red flag for them to even entertain the idea. If they wanted uniforms to be their thing, it should have been that way from the beginning. If the workers all want to wear uniforms now, then great, go for it. But for them to mandate uniforms at this stage in their growth is very plainly just an attempt to feel like they have control.
Dress code should ONLY take into account safety
Yes and in a woodworking shop, it's imperative that the employees dress safely 🤷♂️ tails are an outrageous thing to wear to a woodworking shop lmao
@@allendunwoody3505 Yeah, their libertine fashion choices are all well and good, until they end up inside an industrial machine working at full speed. Crop tops and kilts are massive liabilities depending on your assigned role within the company.
I see no problem with setting minimal standards so that you're not exposing the company to unnecessary risk, but obviously the crowd that shops at Hot Topic will think that any rules are oppression, and those people need to desperately get over themselves.
@@LabTech41 Kilts, sure. I'm having a hard time imagining a situation where a full length t-shirt or polo shirt would be safe but a crop-top would be dangerous.
4 years of metals shop in high school. safety was the rule.
Briana nails it. Let people express themselves as long as it's not oppressive, offensive, and meets safety standards. Dress codes aren't one size fits all - the code, if it's needed at all, needs to be reasonably defined on a job-by-job basis.
100% on Brianna's side here. I worked at Target for over 6 years, wearing red and khaki that whole time, and I hated it. Now with my last couple of jobs, I can basically wear what I want, and like Bri, mostly wear black. Usually a black graphic tee that shows off an interest of mine, black jeans or shorts, and black sneakers. Should safety be considered? Absolutely, but as long as you can keep the individually, that's the most important thing here.
I think a dress code will make wyrmwood to a more generic company, which will result in a more generic product sooner or later. I don´t think you can have a crazy Ed and a dress code at the same time. Obviously, banning a few types of clothing for safety is out of the question.
Bri, at the end, has the face of someone who's going to leave if something like this gets implemented. I've 100% had that look myself while listening to management brainstorming a stupid idea.
Doug puts on a dress shirt and suddenly everything is DRESS CODES
Gosh Doug is soooo very wrong about this on many levels. A ton of management red flags. Brie on the other hand nails it. I would work for her.
I work for a company that provides uniforms for us, and we happily use it on the workfloor because it's both usefull and doesn't use up our own clothing. But noone cares if I use my own.
BUT, I have a little story:
Up until recently, the LAPD (LA police) was not allowed to grow a beard. So many had mustaches instead, but beards were limited in length.
When that change eventually came, and they were allowed to grow a beard, the person who runs the mental health program said; "This is the best thing we have done for police mental health", because it allowed the workforce to express themselves and it made them happier. And I HONESTLY believe, that for those that like to express themselves through their clothing, that limiting factor might hinder their happiness and probably their productiveness as a biproduct.
Honestly, I can see the point of the old restriction. If you're ever in a tussle with someone with long facial hair, it's a convenient handle.
@@DanielEbeck A lot of it probably comes from other emergency/armed services where beards interfere with the tight fitting of masks.
I agree with the over all premise of the argument that mental health of employees in important and that unnecessary dress codes are stifling. And further that this can directly impact moral and productivity. However, I believe that this is not a good comparison. A beard is different than a uniform. If I can't wear a beard to work that means that I also can't have one in my off time. There is no one who can grow a beard fast enough to work clean shaven but then have one on my off time. Whereas a uniform can be removed after one's shift. I can change in to whatever clothes I want
I'm with Briana on this. I've worked in hospital settings where we had to wear color coded scrubs based on departments and I currently work in IT for a company with a very bare minimum dress code. And 9 out of 10 times, I'd pick the minimal dress code. Obviously, there is some mention of safety for your employees who are working directly with some of your larger and more dangerous machines. But over all, I don't see the problem with allowing employees to, in general, wear what they want.
scrubs in a hospital makes sense, you are "customer" facing in a place where that "customer" being able to identify you as an "employee" could actually be life or death lol Dress code for IT is dumb. I'd say if you have a customer meeting or something, have a standard but beyond that ya bare minimum.
I love that Doug "Discretion over Regulation" Costello is on the side of regulation for dress code...
I should have been more clear - I mean no one in the company I do IT for has a dress code unless they are meeting with a customer haha. Its wonderful. Some people walk around in like slacks and a polo, others come into work in shorts and a wrestling T-shirt. Its so nice that we're relaxed about it (its a software company)
Generally this is my thinking as well. You want your employees to be able to relax while working. Forcing people into a dress code will generally make them uncomfortable even if WW managed to supply them with the best fitting clothes. You want the employee working with the 'human mulcher 3000' focusing on how to handle it safely and not be distracted by how the clothes feel on them. Not to mention some people get bothered pretty significantly by say the colors they are wearing much less the textures of the stuff on them. Like saying "No tails, heels, or dangly bracelets" as a general rule of thumb on the shop floor probably wouldnt hurt employee morale and focus, but anything further would like be detrimental.
Your dress code should ONLY be for SAFETY!
Not if they had not learned from that alleged Xmas party harassment/sexual assault PR fiasco not too long ago! Crop tops and loose jewelry are not only a safety issue, but could lead to other issues in a more male-dominated manufacturing environment.
I half agree. The discussions that happen mentioned at 3:40 might also be something to consider.
Also uniforms are a rats nest of negotiation with employees. Do you or the employer launder the uniforms? Who is the vender for the uniforms? Will all of this detract from salaries. It's a bear trap. Then there is proper footwear and back and wrist supports. Once you start it grows like a weed. You can get really nickeled and dimed on uniforms. Just look at fast food. Everything matchy, matchy. 😄 Unions always fight against uniforms because it snatches away pay increases. I was a union sight rep for ten years. This is red flag city. 😆
@@shampoovta I have never heard of a company washing the clothes of their employees (other than like a hospital) giving them a stipend for it I know is something
proper footwear is common sense steel toe boots for example (having things dropped on your toes hurt )
how you implement getting them is where the fun and games are at does the employee buy them and the company then pays them? or does the employer buy in bulk?
also back and wrist supports are health and safety so I wouldn't classify them as just uniform and can be vital for keeping people healthy in the long run
@@StarNote96 " I have never heard of a company washing the clothes of their employees (other than like a hospital) giving them a stipend for it I know is something"
Can you not see how that topic is inevitably going to be brought up though? Mandating employees wear certain things is mandating they have enough of that stuff in their possession to wear daily. Which then WILL bring in the elephant of whose going to pay for purchasing & maintaining that large asset.
Nothing wrong with a dress code for safety. Just be careful how far you go with it. Don't go to the point where your employees feel like they have lost part of themselves just to come to work. Your place looks like a nice fun place to work. Happy employees are productive employees.
thats a really big thing thats starting to come out at least with my own experience, dress codes at business is a vestige of older business models and they make people miserable but places that allow people to wear whatever they want as long as it does not impede their ability to work are far more efficient and have just a nicer feel. I dont like going places where the staff are miserable as i am big workers rights advocate but i love going places where workers are allowed to be themselves.
@@losttransmission2747I think the only way to enforce a rigid dress code is like fancy hotels or restaurant do it, either going the "we need a black formal attire but we let you bring your own so pick the one you like" or "here a stylist, all of you work with him in your new clothing"
uniform only works when the people that will be wearing it are part of the process to choose it. otherwise they'll just feel like it's something that is pushed on them and it will lower morals.
After 39 years in the military I understand dress codes. That said your only dress code should be safety based and designed around risk assessment. Consider work locations to direct/restrict clothing options based on risk.
If a worker is safe wearing nothing more than a codpiece then let them wear a cod piece. If however there is a safety issue with material types due to chemicals or entanglement issues due to moving equipment then establish those restrictions.
I would suggest starting with footwear and headgear. What type of footwear is unsafe in particular areas? What head gear needs to be worn or not worn in particular areas
^^ This ^^
When Wyrmwood unionizes, Bree is going to be the voice of the people.
God I hope it's soon too they need collective representation BAD!
I was a union member for 16 years while working for a Class I railroad and .....Jesus Christ, no. Historically, unions have fought for (and won) a lot of great benefits, but they have become all-but-useless in the last couple decades. In many cases they're actually damaging to the overall health of companies they're forced on. Obviously, none of us have access to Wyrmwood's numbers, but it's obvious the company isn't operating on a high profit margin, but Doug (and crew) seem to make it a priority to take care of the employees. A union is completely unnecessary and might even destroy the company.
@@TychoNorris why? What's so "bad" that it needs a blood-sucking union to address?
Doug buys some dress clothes and now everyone has to do what he does. Bro, I'm happy for your self-esteem or whatever, but people can tell what is happening here.
His excuse that he needs to look like management is silly and misguided. If he needs it to focus and act like a boss, fine, but don't blame others. And why can't Ian tell who he is talking to by knowing who he is talking to instead of what color shirt they are wearing? 🙄
I am personally mostly anti- dress code, I understand from a safety perspective. But when I was in school and we had to dress in a collared shirt and khakis I felt so uncomfortable and not myself. I also spent more time worrying about whether I was following the dress code or not than when there was no dress code. I feel like you risk taking a great place to work and turning it into "just another soulless company".
coming from a country with a school uniform I found it better as you don't have to worry about what you are wearing or having the best fashion (basically spending the most money)
put everyone on the same level especially when it comes to income
also have to wonder how strict your school was on the uniform subject it was pretty chill from my point of view just don't be an idiot colourful trainers / wrong colour Polo
they've never care about raincoats or jackets depending on when you are using them for example at lunch not in class
@@StarNote96We had a school uniform when I was a kid. As someone who was bullied I think that was a great thing. It was helpful. As an ADULT though, I strongly disagree with this move. There's just no need for this and it makes it a crappier place to work.
@@d_dave7200 I think it's better to have a dress code then a uniform in a non customer facing job
@@StarNote96 fair, I tend to use them interchangeable. I didn't worry much about what I wore as long as it was comfortable to me. Also I went to a school with metal detectors and part of the dress code involved nothing that was a gang color was allowed (shoes, shoe strings, hats, hoodies/jackets). Only white, black, baby blue, and maroon/ bugundy (school colors).
Doug is out here reinventing the 5 caste colors from Brave New World. Briana is the voice of reason. I've worked in the corporate drone world for 30 years. I'd much rather work for her.
Yes
Also yah… this is totally one of those situations where they’re making a problem where there wasnt one. The headache this is going to cause is not worth it.
I think that as long as a person isn't dealing directly with the customers they should be able to wear whatever they want as long as it doesn't pose a safety risk. Trying to make people cogs in a wheel might sound good from a business perspective, but I'm betting there is evidence out there to show that the more you have conformity the less people want to do the work. Not to mention it is fun to see the different personalities of people on Wyrm Lyfe.
I think exactly the opposite. Giving the staff control of what they should wear without establishing any basic dress code makes it more likely there will be a safety issue. Being the “fun” boss doesn’t get sh$& done! There are plenty of low paying jobs where u you can find a fun boss. People that want to work and be paid accordingly will be motivated to keep their jobs!
@@kevincragun5853 antiquated jargon, work places can allow you to be yourself and enjoy the freedom of self expression. a lot of people that being miserable at work aint worth they wage they make in the long run. so far they havent shown that the waste issues they are encountering are a result of dress code nor have they reported or shown any major work places accidents(not that they would privacy and all that) The people that want to work line will be motivated to keep their jobs is such a weirdly self destructive mentality. if you have a work force that is getting the job done regardless of what they wear why try and force those trained and effective team members our for something that ultimately will just make not a lick of difference?
@@kevincragun5853 Except that the evidence doesn't show this. Productivity is higher in places where people like the job and the culture. The less happy people are coming to work, the less work will get done. Folks will clock-in, clock-out and do the barest of minimums. You can mitigate that by creating incredibly pressured time-goals like Amazon, but then you'll pay for that with incredibly high attrition rates and waste a fortune on training new employees. And WW isn't Amazon and can't hire people that fast even if they wanted to be that crappy.
*cough* amazon *cough*
@@kevincragun5853there is a big difference between "minimum required dress code" that let you pick whatever clothes you want as long as it is safe and "rigid dress code" that try to bring uniformity, studies are overwhelmingly showing that the more rigid your dress code is the lower your employees morale and productivity goes down for any job that isn't a front job.
Holy crap, I like Bree and Matt taking a bite out of Doug and Ian's bullshyte view on 'I'm a manager managing, you need to abide by my management' In this case, its not the message itself that is important, its the fact there is a message it seems.
And this episode is where Wyrmwood really went corporate...
its sad really they went back to the old format of wyrmlife but the company culture is taking a noise dive
Not in a good way.
As a supervisor in a company that went the other direction (from strict business casual to looser standards) in the last 2 years, I can tell you that this has a much bigger impact on morale than you'd think. You can set some minimum standards (clothes must cover certain areas, no profane or explicit content, etc.). As long as you meet those standards and what you wear doesn't effect safety, you should be able to wear whatever you want.
How does the dress code affect the product I'd buy as a client?
Bri smack down with logic and reason! I love how we get more of her and her no bullshit 🎉🎉🎉
Why not have a staff consultative committee that can input into discussions like this, helps the staff feel represented and it gives you an alternative viewpoint. You might find a silent majority with a view on male crop tops for example.
So, you're cool with arbitrary, gender specific dress codes? That would be worse for company culture than any consistent dress code. When it comes to a place like wyrmwood, if the reasoning for the dress code isn't safety-focused, it's bad reasoning IMO. You don't want a mob passing arbitrary rules to single out certain groups or individuals. What if there's a silent majority that thinks all women should wear a catholic school girl uniform? That'd be bad reasoning, right? Eventhough there was a majority, it would be bad for the company.
@@Nicktals I think the idea was more to have the "general staff" represented in the overall decision making process. They might not be MAKING the decision, but the feedback would be given to help the process. It was mentioned by Bree and Troy, in different ways, that it has to be built on the core strategy, and not a time sync for managers. If the "masses" can be heard up front, it SHOULD reduce the snap reactions and back n forth that can come around this discussion/policy. It's not a fix all, but it's a start
After somehow normalizing a business model where people pay in full for things up front that they won't receive for a year, Doug and Ian are now attempting to fix their employees' fashion sense instead of fixing their company. Interesting that they didn't ask Bobby's opinion, as he's their most famous example of someone leaving something dangling out of their clothes that might get caught in machinery.
Bree is the only person who makes sense
I feel like Troy held a very professional "Okay, dress code could be a thing, but WHY?" and he wasn't impressed with their "arguments".
Troy is pretty baller and level headed.
1,000% this
@@PhtevenTheDuck true, I'm selling Troy short
@@apollophage1381 yeah, he was just less direct about it
I feel craftsmen by definition are individualistic. The more you go for confomity the closer you get to assembly line equipment. I appreciate puting the customer first mentality but the company has to serve its employees too and ive seen the my way or the highway method cause companies to loose their best craftsmen too often.
I'm normally on the side of "professionalism" and a dress code but i agree that outside of safety and a level of appropriateness (not showing up to work in your underwear) I think just let them wear what they want
+1 to bree, I work at a reasonably senior level for an Global engineering firm we are encouraged to bring our whole self to work, I have worn a shirt three time in 15 years all of which when we had to be customer facing and i was happy to, other than that my performance is better when i can be happy in my own skin in clothing that is me, if you say folks are selfish for not wanting to be a faceless plain shirted drone because your all so dedicated to the customer, try not to forget your debt is not just to your customers but the staff who make this company and growth a reality
Not every employee is going to have the pure view of doing everything for the customer. That's what stands out to me. Some people just want to do good work, with good people, and part of that is feeling comfortable in your own skin.
Mandating dress code will be Wyrmwood downfall.
110%
No dress code is a huge employee benefit that you don't have to pay for. So long as it's safe, it cost you nothing and keeps your people happier. Also, if the brand goes completely corporate in look, I fear you will lose the authentic vibe you have and just become another sterile corporate pretender.
Just dont allow loose clothing. It's the only standard that needs to change from a safety clothing perspective. I dont like crop tops but they arent dangerous. But i would never police that in a culture like wyrmwood.
I think there is a middle ground that springs from Bree’s safety comments & meets Ian’s weird fashy stylings. Shop Aprons. If they are leather or another puncture resistant material they will provide some safety from kick back, etc. they can also be color coded to department. Underneath you can wear whatever want.
Aprons usually have strings that tie, strings can get caught in machinery. They might actually be less safe.
Your ability to kick ass for your customers can be linked to employees happily working in a place where they have expression. Safety is one thing, "this has a logo" is entirely different. Nipples are a time bomb.
This whole video is like a AITA Reddit post. Business Casual Doug just showcased his own heel turn.
Wyrmwood stands out for three reasons: authenticity, ascetics, and asskickingly fresh approach to design. However, they appear to be flirting with becoming corporate, conforming, and consistent over innovative.
From the outside, this looks like management trying to play the role of managers, when they instead should be focused on what made them great from the start: kickass geeks making kickass geeky things to sell to kickass geeky folk. Geeks are compassionate about their interests, and when corporate, conformity, and consistency squelch the DNA of Wyrmwood, it goes against the vision (Troy uses “strategy”) one begins to wonder, “Why fix what ain’t broke?”
Safety matters, especially in a work environment consisting of heavy machinery. Tails can be mandated to have a “break away” feature as lanyards do (such that someone can’t use it to choke the wearer, a la break way tails don’t drag the wearer into the machine). If skin shown is making people unsafe, mandate it for that.
But if the authentic reason is that Wyrmwood management is mandating this is because, “We SHOULD be…” it defeats the vision Doug is quoted here saying, “The reason Wyrmwood exists is for US (emphasis mine) to kickass for our customers.” It takes kickass folk to make a kickass product, and corporate, confirming, consistent folk don’t make kickass products, kickass folk do.
The US in the vision isn’t the ambiguous company “Wyrmwood”, it is the culture, community, and customers that make up Wyrmwood, and they all want to kickass, make and consume kickass products, and express being a kickass people. Unless management wants to pivot away from what made, makes, and what will make them kickass, the issue seems manufactured rather than meaningful, but perhaps that’s the point: the issue is a DNA change (consciously or unconsciously) by being corporate, confirming, and consistent, rather than authentically approaching what ascetically needs to change so asskicking might resume with fresh approaches.
If I was a Wyrmwood employee watching this, I’d be looking for a new job right now.
I'd be looking to unionise
@@distractme for what? What part of a union would benefit you in this situation? If, by some miracle, you did manage to unionize Wyrmwood you'd likely be signing your own (and everyone else's) pink slips.
Wearing a tail is a great form of expression that screams, "I am willing to lose my ass in this machine" .
I'm of the mind that people should be allowed to be who they are so long as they are safe and performing within expectations.
If your job is to be face-to-face with customers, there is an understanding that you are a face for the company, but outside of that, uniforms are a way to project power and appear less employee-friendly, especially if uniforms do not provide any additional safety.
The company is ran by adults, they should be treated like such not like children on a field trip.
Briana said everything exactly how i was thinking it
“I can speak to that guy; he’s the right color!” - Ian Costello, 2023
I was thinking of Star Trek uniforms but out of context it just sounds bad :D
Bro said the workers are black and supervisors are tan 💀
I think dress standards vs dress codes work better, and generally agree with Briana, make the code around safety and let people do their own stuff.
Wanting color coded uniforms sounds like he’s been watching Star Trek
it also establishes, were not a team, your at your level, hes at his level, etc. its no longer we are a company together, its grunts
Ohhh red shirts for the most dangerous jobs
Is wyrmwood without kilts even wyrmwood anymore?
Nope.
No, it's Keystone.
Bree is so right! we need more bree! she sounds amazing! is she a newer hire?
98% with Bri, but toss away the tail, it's a big work hazard. Other than that, she nailed it!
Its rather simple. If you want any type of dresscode in a company then the company have to supply all of those pieces of clothing in multiple pairs. Say 2pairs of shooes, 2x pairs of work pants, 5 of pairs of tshirts. 2x pairs of longsleeve/ hoddie. Thats so you can go for a full workweek without having to washing of your workstuff
killts, shorts, tails and croptops could be a safety thing - you should have coverage if it's needed and things should not be able to be sucked into machinery.
But logos/prints should not be a part of the dresscode. It's part of the culture you should not want to loose
Edit: a uniform is harder than you think. Imagine having to source shirts and pants in sizes from xs to whatever size Big Tony wears ;)
I think there is a middle ground here that can be reached. Lessen Dangles (tails, chains, hoodie strings, etc) and lessen skin showing. If you want managers to stand out give them a few shirts or a vest. Create some worker specific merch that is only available to Wyrmwood workers. They don't have to wear it but it does allow them to show pride in their company when they want.
OSHA compliance aside, if you DO want to enforce a dress code, it's recommended to use the safety warnings of each machine as a guideline. You'd end up buying "necessary" protective equipment that allows for both protection and some form of uniformity per machine. Also, double-check state/local codes for what qualifies as a "uniform." Some places require that an enforced dress code means the employer is on the hook for laundering/servicing, which starts becoming more of a pain than requiring safety gear.
Doug read one book and decided to change everything
No dress code = better company culture in my opinion 😅
I think it's fair to say a dress code within reason at the Bare minimum (wearing clothes and in the opposite extreme not in a fursuit think of the fire Hazard )
@@StarNote96 agreed tho I think Ian is going a tad overboard
@@mariotriforce the road to hell is paved with good intentions
I think safety should be the number one priority and anything other than that common sense
@@StarNote96 true tho, it may effect the diversity quotas wyrmwood has if they crack down too much
I feel like what makes Wyrmwood, so amazing is the personality that each of its employees bring. Even when we only meet someone new for one single section during Wyrmlyfe, you can tell there is personality with those people. I agree that long dangly bits are dangerous when working with machines. Personally, I have long hair and I like baggy clothes, so I have to take that into consideration when I work in with anything, whether it be chemicals, moving machinery, or anything like that. But Bree has a point that, at some point, wearing a different kind of shirt doesn't provide any more protection, so it makes no difference what you wear unless you're gonna be wearing body armor or something. Now, if the objective is to make Wyrmwood more professional by color coordination, that's one thing, but
1. Does that really make the ground floor more professional? 2. Is it something that is necessary or is this just a solution for a problem that doesn't exist?
Honestly, if it's just for being professional, don't blame it on safety.
It’s a solution looking for a problem
I'm with Bree on that one, as long as you are not representing the company outwards, i.e. costumer contact or suppliers or or or, your personal fit and style does not matter. However you should be safe while working. If you are in a work process, where your midriff is in danger of catching flying splinters or whatever, Wyrmwood should supply safety equiment. I don't know what's appropriate for a wood workshop, heavy aprons or overalls? Those can be issued to every employee who needs them for work and just put them on over whatever they are wearing. Long hair and beards being tucked away safely so they are not caught up by machinery, just like earrings and other dangly accessories taken off while operating the machines. otherwise, let people live.
Due to Wyrmlife everyone is representing the company outwards, which is why the dresscode is a super super bad idea due to the existing culture / brand of rebel geekdom that wyrmlyfes been operating on.
An overall dress code, no. Safety standards around large machinery, yes. If you work with anything that has moving parts you don't wear loose clothing, its just good practice. Put it in your locker and wear it again later at lunch or on the way home. And who is wearing tails? Find those people and give them a high five along with a howl out!
Don't try to manage just to manage.
If the clothes are not offensive to the staff and does not increase risk on the floor, then go ahead and express your individualism.
Having happy and comfortable employees enjoying their work is seriously undervalued in this discussion.
Instead of enforcing uniforms or uniform clothing and alienating the employees, issue work specific (safety) gear, like aprons, head covers, etc., in the same way safety googles and full face masks are provided.
Doug is again expecting employees to value the company over themselves
Managers and CEO's have to understand that an employee will never work as hard as they do for a company because it is not their company. For Doug its his entire life and he's made sacrifices to make it happen personally and been rewarded financially for it. Workers can not be asked to do the same because they will not receive the same rewards.
Asking employees to wear more professional/safer clothing is not taking away employees value. In fact wearing for the job can lead to working more effectively.
@@TheFTBMaster there’s a difference between “dressing for safety/performance” and “dressing for the company”. I love my job, but if I had to wear something that I didn’t feel like myself in, I would not have the same level of confidence / energy I put into that job.
I get safety standards. But a uniform? Employees wear uniforms for customers. Customers don’t come to Wyrmwood’s warehouse, so… what’s the point? What is it doing?
@@connornance3073 Ian mentioned that the uniforms serve the purpose of differentiating between different levels of employees. I don't believe that providing company t-shirts would negatively impact someone's confidence/energy. Additionally, allowing employees to wear casual clothing might lead to a more relaxed and laid-back mindset, which isn't inherently negative. However, an overabundance of this could potentially have an negative effect on overall productivity, which is something they are currently experiencing.
There are internal facing roles and external facing roles. I've always been of the mind that any dress code for any reason goes for external facing roles because in that situation perception actually is important, but the only acceptable dress codes for internal facing roles are safety based. Check your extrovert privilege if you're spouting shit about the professional appearance of the workforce in internal facing roles, where actual evaluation is what matters and not "perception". And people need to get right the fuck out when they start saying it's about morality of public "decency" in internal facing roles. Safety though, especially in a machine shop. The same way a leather jacket becomes a "safety device" on a bike, rather than "gang paraphernalia", you really can't have loose items (tails, baggy sleeves, chains, etc), long unbound hair, and exposed torso in a machine shop.
Man, listening to more about this I'm definitely against your stance, and I err on your side more often than I probably should.
Edit: You have an obligation to your workforce as well as your customers, Doug. They are what made and continues to make your vision and success scalable, possible, and profitable. Saying conform or die is kinda mega bogus and is such a radical departure from your personality a few years ago that I have to wonder if you're just regurgitating things you've read in business books. To steal a phrase from you, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." You held a $10,000 poker tournament to raise morale in the shop. What do you think this will do in comparison? And I say all this not as a hater, but as someone who, as much as a stranger can, cares about the wellbeing of everyone and everything you've shown on Wyrm Lyfe. Please don't pull an Anakin for the sake of seeming "professional". I miss green shirt Dougie...
Yeah it feels like he drank the business management koolaid a little too fast. Don't get me wrong, there's been some great changes (like a real HR, establishing a vision, looping in Frank, Leahy, Roman, and Troy before making decisions, real QA processes/investigations, etc), but this is a step too far where even Troy is asking "what do we gain from this?"
I think Doug hasn't really internalized that one question: "What is the strategic intent and will this help us get there?" As a "real" CEO, he should be looking at every question through that lens. In this instance, whether she's right or wrong, the only person that's actually answered this explicitly is Briana. Ian and Doug were still searching for problems that this solution will solve.
I totally agree, I started hating business Doug when he started going off on safety regulations and health insurance. Now he’s the CEO we have an image. As a customer I care what my product is not how the drone who made it looks like, I want products with the characteristics of its craftsmanship. When enforce conformity and sacrifice individuality you lose creativity and the ability to think out of the box because you stifle that behind the wall of uniformity
@@JonathanCaverly Tbf, I think Doug does almost always come from a good place. Safety regulations (OSHA) are draconian and often nonsensical or even counterproductive, but they need to be followed and safety was too lax in the shop. The health insurance industry is a nightmare dreamt up by greedy pigs and his response seemed genuinely about providing the best deal for his employees.
As Ian even said, "Doug, he comes from a good place, but he's usually wrong." Love the man, but he seems like a lead sled dog whose focus can easily shift to the detriment of himself and others, sometimes at least. Mostly he's great. I don't wanna talk smack about him because I really do respect him, flaws and all. Except for his taste in gemstone... that's inexcusable.
@@myopic_cyclops I come from an industry where I put people in stretcher or body bags… OSHA rules are the because someone has been maimed or died, draconian maybe but if industry wouldn’t cut corners they would be no need for them
@@JonathanCaverly No doubt. In this case though, it never seemed like WW or Doug were cutting corners or not following rules for unscrupulous self-interest. They willingly made changes to abide by OSHA standards before they were served a notice of violation, which is very unusual as the OSHA rep mentioned.
The regulations are also politically driven. The OSHA rep talked about how the rules never come out the same way they went in, and much of their spirit is lost in the process, which is what I think most people get frustrated with when it comes to following their guidelines. I forget the quote from the video, but it was something along the lines of "you're doing as best you can running on common sense, but common sense isn't so common."
Tbh, the thing I've had mixed feelings about is the "professional", more corporate Doug that's dressing like a manager and quoting Johnson&Johnson handbooks, who I think is actually much more closely following the letter of the law with safety and HR than ever before. A necessary step, I just hope nobody's shine gets lost in the process.
Sorry about you having to put people in bodybags, though. That sounds awful and I can understand being frustrated with someone who was once very safety regulation lax. What industry is it?
I have a couple of decades of both living under and having to enforce dress codes. They can make sense in a few customer-facing roles in some industries like banking. Otherwise, they are poison for morale, which WILL negatively affect productivity!!!
The only standard you should have is safety; no loose clothing if you are working around machinery, eye protection, etc.
Doug's on about Ian's heel turn, when it feels like he's done a heel turn after all the books he's been consuming recently.
I remember someone rebelling against many OSHA rules...
These actions look to slowly chip away at the soul of Wyrmwood, where the workforce also represent much of the community, especially when talking about uniforms.
Briana is 100% correct, (now I'm speaking from a tech work environment) the minute the people in your organization begin to feel unhappy, whether that's strict dress code that wasn't there before, reducing parking, limiting raises to enhance company profits, etc. management and the company will start to feel the pain. If you aren't forward facing the dress code does not matter at all, if you are already producing kick ass stuff for your customers and you have the customer loyalty you are good to go. I feel as though management is looking for something to be wrong or that something needs to change. You don't need to target your employees, the job of management is to support the employees, they are providing a service for you, the power of the company rests in the employees hands. Briana's spirit is what Wyrmwood is all about, the people within it.
I think Bree has the right side of it. If it isn't a safety concern, then it shouldn't matter. One point she made was that they were not public facing, which can be considered false due to these episodes. If the goal was to market yourself and your clothing brand, I could see a dress code that requires a wyrmwood top on. If this is the route you take, make sure you give everyone 2-3 shirts on the company and then if staff want to purchase more they can. Just my two cents.
Also, love the daily videos!
If Wyrmwood is stating that they have to wear a Wyrmwood top, then they should provide free of charge at least one per work day per week + 1. I used to work for a company that required you to wear the company logo shirt, but only provided 1 a year so now I'm out the cost of 4 overpriced printed Hanes T-shirts just to be able to work without getting hassled about BS dress code violations.
The real take away of this episode was oatmeal is the choice of the resistance
Viva la resistance
Personally my choice is chocolate chip but because of ChatGPT and Doug I am changing my vote to oatmeal raisin
A not insignificant part of your company's appeal in the gaming community is that you have a culture that reflects the open and accepting nature of the community. This recent trend of "Corporatization" runs counter too that and will impact how the community reacts to you. Watch your Subcribers, Comments, and Like/Dislike hard on this one as it's a test balloon into that path. Is it going to be accepted or lead you right out of your market? We'll find out
I think it makes sense for safety. If you have big grindy machines with sharp blades. You don’t want loose dangly stuff. NO CAPES!!!
Based Brianna, I think alot of these dress codes generally effect women more than men so I think it would be important to get more women's perspective on this issue.
This is a very true statement.
I like the HR guy. "is it worth it" is a good self check.
New dress code - kilts for everyone, wyrmwood branded crop tops and your choice of tail!
I only agree with uniforms when the employee is interacting directly with customers. Besides that, the only restrictions on clothing should only be for safety reasons.
7:36 "If you care about your clothing more than the work you do I don't want you here" is a really bad way to look at it. What I'm wearing will not change how I feel about what I am doing, but will be more comfortable doing my work if I get to wear what I want. Uniforms for production line employees are entirely unnecessary.
I think a good way to do this would be to provide uniforms for anyone who wants them, so people can voluntarily wear it, but it's not forced
5th. I agree with Bree. You're a company of craftsmen, not office workers. Those two things, they don't mix.
Bree needs a raise. She was the only one that got it.
I think one thing to consider is how many people would have tuned into Keystonelyfe compared to wyrmlyfe.
Advantage of staying up all night: Catching Wyrm Lyfe right at drop.
The disregard for top tier performance in favor of corporate compliance is some gross totalitarian bullshit and exactly the moment I decided to stop supporting this company. Was fully onboard for early Wyrmwood but creepy corporate Doug is not what I signed up for. Too bad, I was considering some of your products but nah. I don't want my patronage to be promoting corporate power overreach.
A dress code serves two functions in my opinion: safety and representing the values of the company. I agree with Bri that as long as it doesn't impede your ability to perform the work safely and does not offend others then wear what you like. However, defining "impede your ability" and "offend others" can be a pretty difficult task as it changes from person to person. I really respect Wyrmwood's freedom of expression idea for each plant manager to set the tone dress code wise as each location/region holds different values and standards and a "one size fits all" policy never works.
I agree with Bree on the dress code mind set