A Brief Look at the Structure of the Classic JRPG Party
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2017
- I've played a lot of damn RPG's in my time, most of them of the "J" variety. Here I lay out some of the observations regarding party structure that I've made during my many years of grinding, questing and being confused by JRPG stories.
Also I just now realized that I misspelled protagonist throughout the whole video pls no bully
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Music Used:
I Am Setsuna - The Enchanted Sanctuary
Final Fantasy 13 - The Yaschas Massif
Sonic Colors - Planet Wisp Map
Unravel - First Steps - Ігри
I think there's a good reason for some of these roles from a game design standpoint:
Best friend: Combat with one party member is usually pretty boring, so games want to introduce a second party member asap. In order for this to make sense they need someone the protagonist already knows and someone would it would make sense for to stick with him in the long run.
Older Character: They are a great way to insert tutorials mid-game while making sense from a narrative point of view. They also often provide information that the main characters might not know and helps the flow of the game - EX: Characters are told to go to some ruins or whatever - old character knows where they are and you don't have to gather info as to where it is.
Non-Human: helps to immerse the players in the world of the game by allowing them to connect with an element unique to the game's world. (Also probably a great way for designers to get to use their fictional creations and highlight them)
The best friend is an interesting point.
It reminds me of Chrono trigger's opening sections though - not that it contradicts the idea all that much, it's just interesting how such ideas get used.
You get introduced to the idea that you've known Lucca for ages as one of the very first things you get told, but when you meet her, she's busy, and it's Marle that becomes your first party member for a moderately lengthy section of the game, but then you get Lucca in your party and very quickly lose Marle.
Even so, these 3 characters fit the archetypes pretty well.
The main protagonist, Secondary Protagonist, and Best friend. They match up pretty well except for the minor details. (Lucca is female, which is slightly out of line for the normal 'best friend' role), and Chrono... Well, he does meet a LOT of the stereotypical criteria, but he's also a silent protagonist.
(which is also a fairly common thing in games, but not necessarily JRPG characters...
Still, minor variations while mostly following established patterns hardly disproves much of anything. XD
I mean, the rest of the playable cast are a frog, a robot, a very old wizard (doesn't look old, but is several hundred years old at least), and a cave woman with catlike tendencies...
They sound odd, but most bases besides the 'child' character are covered...
Yes, the older character is usually a plot device to send the protagonist to some key place in the story. The non-human character often serves as a sub-type of character: the bodyguard. Kimahri was Yuna's bodyguard, Fran was Balthier's bodyguard, etc. They are typically shunned by their own kind in some way.
The best friend is often a plot device who helps reveal the history of the main protagonist, such as Tifa helping Cloud to remember what really happened in Nibelheim. In this regard, I actually think Auron represents the older character and best friend of Tidus in a way.
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
Main Character: Demi-Fiend
Secondary Protagonist: Matador
Best Friend: Daisoujou
Old man: Lucifer
Child: Pixie
Non-Human Friend: Dante from the Devil May Cry series
Fits like a glove.
crimsonbok Ehh I mean I would prefer
Main Character: Soviet Union
Secondary Protagonist: East Germany
Best friend:China
Old man:Hungary
Child:Poland
That is how much I could fill the list and correct it but it seems to fit way better like a jigsaw puzzle
@@firepower7017 Non-human character: Latvia.
Fropps I thought about having Finland or Sweden be that also
Antagonist: America and Japan
I think a better name for the "Old' character would be the "Mentor". They're usually older yes, but that doesn't define the role they usually play as a sort of font of knowledge and a character who can also act as a gatekeeper to that same knowledge; only revealing key information as they deem the protagonist(s) ready to handle that revelation. This also goes more in line with the Hero's Journey style of creating a story many JRPGs adhere to.
One thing I’m suprised wasn’t mentioned was the evil guy turned good. It’s always someone who seems evil to you for like half the game till you discover the real evil and they join you, usually being the last party member
Edit: sometimes they won’t join your party but will work towards the same goal but on their own, usually dying towards the end in your arms and giving you the knowledge or power u need to win the game
+
A fine example of this archetype would be Cassiopeia from the original NNK game. She's the last member in your party, appearing in the last chapter.
Leon from ToD. =,(
Kai Edu a more recent example would be Hendrik from DQ11, Morag from XC2, Jin from XC2 (2nd type), and some older examples we have Lloyd from Legend Of Dragoon (2nd type), Cait Sith from FF7 (in a way), Kain Highwind from FF4 and so on
Lancer from Delta rune (released 1 month ago ) , first charged to kill the heroes and ended befriending and helping them (but he never join the party as a character :( )
Now I'm realizing how rare it is for the "old" character to be female. Having more games with a combat grandma would be cool
There's Camellia from Arc The Lad: Twilight of the Spirits. ..though that's somewhat lost by her turning into a significantly younger looking character halfway through the game.
Osteoporosis is a bitch.
Yeah, now that you mention it, it's not super common at all. Which is odd because in anime and manga it's not as uncommon to see a female character in some position of power or authority who has prior combat experience and acts in more of a mentor role to another character such as Tsunade, Yoruichi, Dr. Kureha, etc. They're usually not the MAIN teacher and often are a mentor figure for a side character or for just a single arc or so, but it's definitely an archetype that exists.
@@dracocrusher Partly because women are sexualized so you don't see many older women in parties. Look at the anime choices you selected as well...Tsunade, Yourichi both have age in their respective universes but look young and are sexualized. Of course there are exceptions....like Chiyo from Naruto who is actually a better example than Tsuande and a better character too....lol
Etrian Odyssey 5, female Rover. Top quality death grandma
I think the challenge in JRPG's is taking these character archetypes and making them interesting and Unique. Xenoblade Chronicles 1 is often cited in this respect because it takes tropes like the Chosen one/Orphan (Shulk), and expands on it by, for example, making him smarter than your average protagonist. The fact that we also get to watch his, and his friends, motives and personality(s) evolve through the game instead of just keeping him mostly the same.
And that early death too
I remember years back, playing around with comparisons between "The Three Girls" that typically show up in Final Fantasy games. The first would be the innocent, pure-hearted one (if there is a love interest for the hero, it is this character). The second is the younger, spunky, "funny" girl. The third is a bit more experienced or mature, tend to be more serious, sometimes they have dark events in their history.
FFIV: Rosa, Porom, Rydia
FFV: Lenna, Krile, Faris
FFVI: Terra, Relm, Celes
FFVII: Aeris, Yuffie, Tifa
FFVIII: Rinoa, Selfie, Quistis
FFIX: Garnet, Eiko, Freya
FFX: Yuna, Rikku, Lulu
FFX-2: Yuna, Rikku -Lulu- Paine
FFXII: Ashe, Penelo, Fran
FFXIII: Lightning, Vanille, Fang
FFXIV: Minfilia, Yda, Y'shtola ???
You can definitely see some general patterns across the board, but you also have to ignore a lot of differences or just put characters in spots because "they don't fit anywhere else." Like, Porom and Penelo are clearly the "younger" characters, but they don't have that youthful energy like others in their bracket do -- quite the opposite, they are very practical and responsible people who crave structure.
>uses xenoblade examples for 3 of the roles
>no reyn time or heropon
>puts Dunban as the oldest character despite Melia being 88 years old
>doesn't even put Melia as the "non-human character" and "(one of the) last survivor(s) of her race"
But to be fair, he excluded Riki as the "child" character by requiring the "child" character to actually be a child and not just act like one.
Yannick Kuhn Melia is Half Homs(human) and half High Entia
To be fair, despite all of the main roles having a character in Xenoblade you cannot put the same series all the time.
Shulk is the typical Main protagonist being the chosen one and an orphan.
Fiora is the secondary protagonist because the just is and anyone saying she's not can fight me.
Rein is the bestest of firends.
Dunban in the "old" guy because he is the wise one that was a part of the past, being the hero before Shulk.
Heropon Rikki is the child character because he behaves like one.
Melia is the non human because she is an ancient civ princess of elf like creatures, one of the last ones, and very ununderstanding of humans.
Last Sharla is more in the "fanservice" or "girl" character trope.
@@SystemfehlerK Riki is the non-human. Look at him.
Soren Sharp Well, I’d say he exhibits elements of both the non-human character (being an outcast due to debt) and the child character (thanks to his personality), but I’d say he much more closely fits the child character role within the main story (as he does get good character moments, even sometimes crossing into the old character role at points, but Dunban is clearly the old character simply due to how much that part of him is in the forefront during the game)
Cloud's hardly melodramatic. He's more of an arrogant cowboy. Unless you're talking about Advent Children Cloud.
We don't talk about Advent Children Cloud.
nah, more like every other media but og ff7 cloud, i hate it, even in kh, one of my favorite series of all time
that's cause AC cloud was all about the dilly-dally shilly-shally. and emo about his freaking memories of all things...
AC Cloud is just 7 Cloud after all his hopes, dreams and ambitions shattered. The arrogant cowboy becomes a washed up hermit with nothing to live for. Kind of like a hollywood action hero on his 3rd sequel.
Manannan anam How did KH ruin Cloud? He was only in KH I and II (not counting CoM and Re:Coded) with not much screen time and his past still a mystery, so you’re jumping to conclusions on him.
Adrian Arshad Oh great you’re making the same BS argument about Advent Children that has already been blabbed a bunch of times and debunked.
I feel like Tifa was the Best Friend character instead of Zack.
I thought so too! Zack's existence isn't even know to the player until the last quarter of the game
He was talking about Crisis Core, not FF VII.
One thing I have noticed zbout jrpgs, at least final fantasy, is their obsession with orphans. In all the final fantasy games I have seen, almost every party member/protagonist was an orphan, and the few that weren't had only ONE living parent. The only exception I saw was Zack Fair (and HE was the one who died.)
Yeah. I think they do that in order to have them free roaming. What I mean? Let us say you are like 18 years old and your parents have a farm and they work on it. And you tell them you want to leave and go in an adventure. Of course they wouldn't let you because you have to work on the farm. This is how the family lives. How they earn some money to buy stuff and such. BUT if no parents exist then they can just say:
@@Safersephiroth777 Or they have a chill mother like Ash Ketchum does. "You want to go on a dangerous journey to become the best that no one ever was? Well, good luck honey. Be back soon."
That’s a pretty far reaching trope across all fantasy (or pretty much every story type that follows the Heroe’s Journey structure).
@@HeavensMemory Dinner will be ready whenever you get home...
*Ash leaves*
*Mr. Mime enters*
@@XCodes Shadow is Relm's father. Strago is actually more of an adoptive grandfather (he's not ACTUALLY her grandfather). But he wasn't saying that ALL characters are orphans, just that most of the main protagonists are usually orphans, or only have one parent, etc, which is true in nearly all FF games that have backstories.
*LEAVE IT TO HERO PON*
I misread that as "hero porn". Heropon is 1 word; remember that.
SMASH POW!!
Haha nice
Bitey...Bitey!
@@ecchicharmed e e
The thing I like about Persona is every party member each has a Persona themselves which is tied to them, but also has its own themes that keep it separate, so it's kinda like having 6 party members instead of 3
A lot of these tropes exist because they're somewhat related to storytelling convents such as the five man band. Which consists of the Leader, Lancer, Big Guy, Small Guy, and the Heart. It's true that a lot of JRPGs bend some of these conventions but it's why you often see similar roles like this in many forms of story writing. It's an easy structure that allows some a lot of variation in the story itself without having to reinvent the wheel with your party dynamic.
Teenagers, "Whatever you define that as."
Maybe the "non-human character" could be referred to as the "alien" or "outsider" character. As its not so much a matter of race/species as relative perspective to the party. Like you have an RPG, theres a war going on between two kingdoms, most of the characters are from one kingdom - call it the "good" kingdom - and that other character is from the evil kingdom. They could all be human and still fit. Or maybe refer to the "old character" as "aged" or "experienced". Just cause, again, relative perspective.
But thats all semantics I guess. Cool video, thumbs up. I think another reason these "roles" show up often is because it reflects what perspectives we value as a society as we govern ourselves. Our main ideals, our questioning or check on those ideals, our reasons to support those ideals, the need to respect and learn from elders, the need to bring up the young, and then how all of that compares to another society with a different culture.
Thanks! Those are probably better names than what I thought of lol. And yeah the whole idea of what we value as a society showing up in the heroes that exist in our stories is a great angle.
@@lcart14If you haven't played EVERY SINGLE RPG EVER, then you are not qualified to comment on them. You are no expert.
Auron best "old charcter"!!!
And Dunban.
Neat analysis. But funny thing. It's not really uniquely Japanese per se. I mean look at classic Star Wars. The Original Trilogy. Or "Ep IV". You had the MAin Character, Luke. The Secondary Protagonist, Leia, The Best Friend Han, The Old Character Obi Wan the Non Human Chewie, and R2D2 effectively filled the "Child" or "wise child more adult than the adults" role. And they had the bonus "Kooky one!" in C3PO.
Indeed star wars episode 1 was very japanese style in this section and also the first matrix the whole crew was this style
Its also a five man band more or less.
I partly think the reason for the prevalence is just the tendency people have to box things up. The majority of the games that escape the trope simply don't have characters in a similar capacity. Pokemon is just you. Mario is a platformer with far less focus on relations between characters. I don't know the earthbound series well, but suspect you could probably do some boxing if you ignored age. Heck a character being a "friend" is worthy of boxing.
I just commented the same thing, cool that I am not the only one who noticed!
Whenever there's five or so characters in a group in a story, they'll usually fill these roles somehow.
Fantastic video. I've been working on making my own RPG (heavily inspired by JRPG's, as that's what I usually play) as an occasional hobby, so going into this I was interested in seeing how I compared to the usual composition. It's still very much a work in progress, so I don't have all character traits locked down, but I had enough to follow along. If anyone is curious, here's my breakdown:
Main Protagonist: At first, it's a male, mid-20's, and a sword wielder, but is slightly differentiated by being more of a heavy than someone like Shulk or Squall. Country boy exposed to a larger world, but no special purpose or powers. The reason I said "at first" is that this character will be killed around 1/3 or 1/2 way through the story, and the secondary protagonist becomes the main character while the best friend takes up the secondary protagonist role.
Secondary Protagonist: Female love interest, also mid-20's. Only slightly different personality to main protag, more like Shulk and Fiora than Squall and Rinoa. Not privileged or high-born. Also a sword fighter, and also not a chosen one.
Best Friend: The first person the main protagonist meets. Male, mid-20's, with a foil personality to him. Around the time of the main character's death, he starts to embody the "tortured soul" archetype.
Old Character: At least 50 years older than other characters, a woman with healing spells which have kept her middle-aged appearance despite being twice that. Was involved in past events which drive the early section of the game, but has no connection to the main villain. Not much of a reputation, and is more of a sarcastic and witty character than a mentor, although she certainly does give advice.
I don't have either a child character or a non-human character, but to round it out there's another character who could fill the secondary protagonist role (another male, same age as the others) and two characters who don't fit in easily to any of these roles.
Huh. Pretty interesting. I'm working on a story of my own which I plan on turning into a game once I get the skills.
Dang, dude. That second act twist sounds amazing. Not sure if I've even seen a protagonist swap in an RPG before, let alone swapping to the love interest. I also like the change you're planning for the Best Friend, as it really does seem like it will show lasting consequences. Best of luck with your project
It sounds like a very interesting story and as someone else commented, seeing that change partway through the game is something not seen often so it'll be interesting to see how that'd play out!
tbh I'm quite invested in the plot X'D
I feel like perhaps during the plot twist where the main character dies, the Old Character could play quite an important role as she'd be quite knowledgeable and perhaps she knows what it's like for that to happen, maybe some backstory perhaps, and could possibly keep the morale of the party up? Just a random suggestion so don't mind me X'D
But really, I can just imagine the Old Character being someone who's kind of mean to the rest of the characters in the beginning but then you see a character development where she grows empathetic (and not sympathetic) towards the characters and wants to help them more :')
When I did a module on scriptwriting last year in my 2nd year of uni, we learnt about empathy vs sympathy. In order to create a good story, you'd prefer the audience to feel empathetic as opposed to sympathy as when you feel empathetic, you feel a connection so it resonates with them whereas with sympathy, you only just feel bad and that's it. And I feel for your story, that play on empathy might be important for you to incorporate into your story as a good device for character development.
---
That's just some random stuff coming out my mouth so you don't have to follow that ahahah
It would be interesting to work on the story with you though but don't mind me :')
Good luck on the project nevertheless!
Sounds like a great idea😊 The plot twist reminds me of Danganronpa V3, where you play as a female protagonist with a male secondary protagonist...until she gets killed off. The secondary character is now the MC you play as...Danganronpa is not a RPG, though. (sry, if my english is bad)😊
Not a bad idea, but be VERY careful when killing off the main character in any story. It's not always a bad move, but it can be. There's a reason so few stories do it.
The reason is that we get emotionally attached to the characters we play as in a JRPG, and when they die, we're sad. Thus, if you kill off the main character halfway through the game, we realize that nobody is safe, and to keep ourselves from becoming upset by another character's death, we prevent ourselves from becoming attached to anyone else.
Or we just become upset and simply stop playing.
Again, it can be done right, but when killing the main character, especially after we've spent half the game growing to love them, you have to be very careful to make sure the above doesn't happen. Good luck!
Tales of is one of my favorite series, but pretty much each character in each title plays a type and can be swapped out.
Have you had the opportunity to try Berseria? I feel like it bucks the trend for a lot of these.
@@forgedh2486 I did. And you're right. They were pretty unique within the tales tropes.
@@forgedh2486 I have and I freaking loved it!! The story is just .... !!!!! I cant think of a powerful word to express how much I loved both the game and its characters
@@vDorgengoa It has one of my favorite casts of any jrpg I've ever played. Though I did find some of the dungeon design in particular to be a bit lacking.
@@forgedh2486 I can agree with the dungeon designs
like you said, because a game has tropes it doesnt mean it is bad, tropes are used because of 2 things,
1) they work, like it or not, people tend to gravitate to those characters, are they are easier to identify with.
2) there have been so many diferent stores made through out the decades, that even if you think a character is 100% unique, chances are, he is part of a trope that you just didnt knew about. in other words, its almost impossible to create a non trope character because there are so many tropes that 99% of the characters will fall into one of them, intentionally or not, and from the rest, 99% of them either are part of a trope, or will set a new trope.
My father always said that 'originality' is dead, and its impossible to create new media that doesnt take from other media in order to make something new, theres just too much out there thats already been made
This is why I hate when reviewers hate on a JRPG character because it's "tropey"
3.) You can use these tropes as inspiration to make a character that doesn't fit into most of these tropes,use them to juxtapose or make a bait and switch scenario. Example: The protagonist is destined to save the world from the big bad god of badness and after you save the world the real bad guy, your best friend pops in and betrays you by killing you and bypassing the prophecy's rules because the god of badness courses through you through your experience points and now protagonist must somehow revive himself in a new body to fight the god of badness and a zombie hero destined to win with an entirely new party made in the afterlife or whatever.
Originality isn't dead. It just never truly existed. Creativity is all in how you bind together and repackage things that are already known. Think of it as a computer. At the base is just ones and zeroes. But by building upon it, you eventually reach where we are today. (And in the future we'll certainly go even further.)
@@skycastrum5803 This ^^
Xenogears
Protagonist/Main character: Fei
Secondary protagonist/Love interest: Elly
Best friend: Bart
Old man: Citan
Child: Maria and Emeralda
Non-human: Rico and Chu-chu
And that leaves out only Billy, who is definitely not a best friend or love interest, too old to be a child, too young to be an old man, and too human to be non-human.
Left a like and subscribed I love the use of examples on every point. The RPG on the analysis list for me was tales of series and when your clear points resonated with me it felt great.
I love this type of video. The way you explain and the music you use make it really relaxing. I don't comment often on videos but i'm doing it just to tell you how i want to see more on your channel. You just got a subscriber with a 2 years old video.
Mfw the novel im writing has a jrpg cast
Haha, you must've played a lot of JRPG's then?
How's your novel going?
Fons the Magnificient im not taking any narration class but so far so good
Akihira Baka i break down this trope a lot like my main party has 4 characters and none are human but there are a lot in the supporting casts but no child yet. That’s really lacking when I think of it.
Akihira Baka i changed one of my characters to a child character 14 years old appearance wise but he’s a vampire so he actually 200 years old. The reason why I changed him is because the character is somewhat immature and I wanted a brotherly friendship from the main character.
Great analysis. Here hoping for more videos like this.
good list. I like how you differentiate things.
also bonus points for including tales of vesperia
This is a very good analysis. The character clasifications can be a helpful tool to create stories based on jrpg structure.
This was an awesome video.
You go in-depth without wasting any time. This should be extremely valuable for anyone studying game design, interested in the JRPG
Game Design bachelor student here, focussing on Japanese game story telling, yeah this is helping me a bunch!
Besides the white knighting and feminist bullshit.
Fons the Magnificient just curious what sort of job you are going for? Do you plan on moving to Japan and working on JRPG’s or making your own JRPG style game? There aren’t that many studios making JRPG’s I imagine it’s difficult to get into.
@@exiledgoldfish6329 My dream would be to make an MMO that's built by the players (I know these kind of things already exist, but I have my wild ideas)
I have visited Japan on a 2 week study program and have popped by two smaller game studios there and ehm... Japan's laws are very, very much in favour of AAA studios and really leave smaller game studios on their own. As game designer or programmer, it's pretty hard to get into a job there unless you're applying as a programmer to a AAA studio.
That said, I am going for a full-time job as game developer in a game studio in my own country, am really working hard for that!
And about the JRPG's being made in my country? I can't think of a single one, but I really do love working on AI's in games, as well as world-building/story writing/such design jobs, and there are hardly games out there that don't benefit from a well made AI!
What I'm saying is; I like JRPG's, yes, but I don't necessarily like working on them more than on other genres!
How to debunk every JRPG: *E V E R Y O N E D I E S*
(and also; too many tales series)
Thanks so much for making this video. I'm going to take some pointers for future references and see how I can build a world around some of these. *Sigh* the hard part
I enjoyed this. Good job. Gonna put it in my play lists for character analysis and artist/writer advice.
I feel like the original SNES Mario RPG actually does fit to a fair degree the roles you outlined. Mario is main protag, Geno is old guy, Toadstool is secondary protag, Bowser is somehow the best-friend/rival in the game, and Mallow is the child character. Geno, Mallow, and Bowser all fit non-human but in different ways.
Radiant Historia fits partially. Protagonist and best friend are pretty clear, but both old character and child character double as non-human characters and we have... two secondary protagonists? One? Or none? Hard to say.
*I was thinking of writing a story and I find your video really helpful, thank you.*
So happy to see you mention Ar tonelico at the end. Such an underrated series
Loved this video bro. I'm writing a Sci-fi story inspired by Star Ocean/Fairy Tail and Final Fantasy, I have all these roles in my story. Well observed.
it is funny how many jrpg fans try to write similar stories. i do the same but mine is based on many final fantasy concepts.
One character that caught me off guard initially that shows you can have multiples of the same character type in a party, even in games with a smaller cast, was when you listed Auron as the old character for FFX. He definitely fits that role, Lulu often slots into that role as well what with her being the second oldest character in the group, and having gone on a pilgrimage twice before, meaning she's fully familiar with the world and the path of the pilgrimage in a way most of the other characters in your party are not.
Yes, there can often be several old characters. Tales of Symphonia has 3, for example: Kratos, the mentor; Raine, the teacher and "big sister" to the party: Regal, the most mature/father figure to the party.
Same with FFXII and Basch and Balthier.
may this be a good start of this awesome channel. love the witty content commentary bruh! more gaming contents please.
You could turn this into an entire series where you break down the character archetypes of different JRPGs party roster. What archetypes they fit in, how well they succeed in that role and why, some criticisms etc etc. I dug the video a lot.
Just for seeing Persona 4 and Paper Mario in the first second, I put a like !
but y'know what would have been even better...shin megami tensei
@@fuckitweballin759 Persona is a variant of SMT so... I'll test it on romstation
@@fuckitweballin759 spread the love of SMT I also love persona too lol
Great video, the observations are good. And I have great news! Tales of Vesperia is getting a remake/rerelease/whatever on all new gen consoles. This means we get two childcharacters and I can finally play this game myself! Yay!
A very interesting look into RPG characters and what roles they fall into.
Would it be strange to say my favorite part of the video is the fact that it's only eight minutes only to be suprised it was over before I knew it? Very well paced and neat observation on some of JRPGs more common tropes.
Ah, I remember back in 1991, when I made my very first Final Fantasy 1 party. It was 4 thieves, because I thought they looked the coolest. I was young, dumb, and DEFINITELY didn't understand RPGs then. Hell, nobody in the US did.
That game ended quickly... I guess there's a reason you didn't start jRPGs playing as 4 thieves after that.
Welp, time to go turn on FFIX.
The thing about FF1 is that it's rough on practically any party starting out. A party of 4 thieves is viable, but it takes a bit more prepwork and reliance on items/equipment that can be used as spells than other parties. Of course, you're still stuck with a party of thieves who can't do any thieving, which effectively just makes them crappier warriors.
@@briansellers8840 They're supposed to be the best at running away. Of course that's one of the many bugs in the game that makes something that's supposed work...not work. I know someone has beaten the entire game with a single thief and even a single white mage, so it's doable. But yeah, the thief is AWFUL until at least after getting the Mystic Key so he can wield a decent sword. Definitely not useful characters until they become ninjas, and there is a LOT of difficult gameplay before then.
@@frozenaorta The only solo FF1 I've tried is solo Black Belt/Monk, and it's hilariously easy.
@@briansellers8840 The Black Belt is really overpowered if you can just make it to about level 12. Cheap as hell, too! Ha. I'd imagine the only problem would be battling herds of monsters. His defense isn't great. For example, the required battle the Marsh Cave against the wizards/piscodemons in front of the Crown was probably a bear at that level. Lol.
lmao
Star Ocean: The Second Encounter has the rare trope of "Main Character + Non-Human Character"
One of the biggest things is... The Main Character is obviously human. But... he isn't the quote-on-quote "human" species on the alien planet, and it shows. While there are other non-usual species characters, he sticks out the most because the others had at least some cultural understanding at one point or another.
The game also has another spin on the "non-human" character trope with Ashton. As while he's clearly human at first he gains non-human features and abilities as part of his backstory. He also serves as comic relief which isn't common for this kind of characters as they tend to lean more towards serious or tragic backstories (RedXIII, Freya and Kimhari from FFs for example).
FF9 also did this with Zidane. It really does seem like a less represented trope, huh? I honestly can't off-hand think of anymore...
@@freddiewompton And both the human and non-human characters in those respective games fall in love.
Very comprehensive video. Love the editing format. Some few typos here and there ("protaganist", "differnt"), but very strong content without feeling tiring or dragging (I've seen similar videos with over 30 minutes duration; no one got time foh dat).
omg yes unravel music!! i got so happy when i heard it, it’s a beautiful game, thank you
Does anything about the secondary character from 3:00 onwards actually apply to Fiora
Isn't Reyn from Xenoblade a best friend character? Also great video! For once in my life I get a video actually worth watching in my recommended video feed.
Yes. Of course there are a lot of examples of this type of character and he's not going to be able to list every single one, but Reyn falls squarely into the "best friend" role.
@Nafis Zaman And his blades are the fan service characters.
@Nafis Zaman
Rex is actually alright as a character. Though you probably haven't even played the game.
@@sean80429
With the expection of Gorg, Corvin, Perceval, Godfrey, Wulfric, Dagas etc...
@@lordofhostsappreciator3075 wdym wulfric is the best fanservice character
Tales of Vesperia really reveled in doing the common JRPG tropes well. Love it.
Great video bro! Lol you put the cursing at just the right spots and made this really humorous/funny. Really enjoyed it! Keep it going! Peace!
I'm mad u left out kimari in the non human role
Haschel from The Legend of Dragoon is the best old character.
Yessssss
*Lavitz
@@Aquilenne Lavitz wasn't old lol
Wish he never died. I never really liked Albert
THANK YOU
Great video! I fucking loved the tales of Xilia 1 party line up.
very high quality video. Well done sir
Another trope is when the main character is female she usually doesn’t have a love interest or is uninterested in love and the secondary character is usually a female or a friend/family or somehow related to the main character in some way.
Examples:
lightning and Snow (FFXIII)
Terra and Celes (FFVI)
Velvet and Laphicet (berseria)
Lora and Jin (Xenoblade 2 torna)
Eirika and Ephraim (Fire emblem ss)
Serah and Noel (FFXIII-2)
Lightning and Hope (FFXIII-3)
May be missing others but these are the ones I remember.
Trails in the sky does have love interest tho, although the gender of main and secondary is switched
It's because a powerful female lead is not evolutionarily common. So there must be something wrong with her.
In terra case tho, shouldn't it be Locke instead of Celes? (I forgot the story already, but iirc the earliest team is Terra and Locke)
I died a little inside when you used two characters from Tales Of in the "Old" section and neither were Rowen!!
Same. And no Elize in the child character section as well
6:53 I'm just so happy to see Genis again. I wasn't sure if I'd see Kratos in "Old Charactor" or "Non-human Character", but then your ending summed up nicely how these roles combine to tell interesting character stories. Soulsbourne characters would be a fun video.
Really enjoyed this video man. A lot of brought back memories. Lol
Freya was basically human though. The Burmecians were handled exactly like humans. You meant Quina
Freya is a demi-rat race. She actually have a rat features in her body. Same with Puck and other Burmecians.
Yeah she wasn’t human at all man. Whether she is treated like one is irrelevant (not to sound like an ass)
I mean, if we're being fair, there are technically only 4 "human" characters in that game. Neither Zidane, Vivi, or Quina are human either. And technically, Dagger and Eiko are of their own race, too. But everyone in that game's world are sort of varied in an anthropomorhic way. In FFIX's universe, it's more fair to say "humanoid," of which Freya certainly is.
Yeah, Freya doesn't really fit into that role.
@@frozenaorta Yeah, if you think about it, Steiner and Beatrix are the only Human characters you really see a lot. Maybe the Tantalus guys, though Blank is rumored to be a Frankenstein monster type of thing. Marcus is really the only unquestionably Human one, and you do get to play him for a while with Garnet and Steiner.
And I'm not sure what Amarant is...
Fiora is best girl.
*_Angry Melia fanboys screeching in a distance_*
*SCREECHES ANGRILY*
@@Skallva Their immaturity, selfishness and need for everything to be their way only proves that I am right (and that Fiora is the best.)
@@EmilXOM Melia fanboys should not be allowed to play Xenoblade Chronicles.
@@TheStupidRaptor Who hurt you?
I loved this, man. Good job!
I, like you, are a pretty big fan of the classic JRPG games, in fact I dare to say it's my favorite genre of all time (FF X being on my num 1 spot)
One of my dreams is to make one myself (which I am still learning) but this video should help me in the way.
Awesome video btw ♥
Chrono trigger fits perfectly
Except there's no child character, and you would have to say Magus is the older character? But Magus is definitely NOT a mentor type character
@@jasonallen5318 Ayla has the mentality of a child I guess
Glenn is the old character and Ayla is the childlike one
Ehhhhhhhh...
Debatable. For one thing, Marle isn't REALLY the secondary protagonist. If you really break down how the story is set up, that would be Lucca, since she's way more involved in the actual story at play.
Sure, Marle is more central to the generational epic that unfolds, but Lucca is much more central to the *story* at hand. It's her actions that push the plot along - making the teleporter, the gate key, repairing Robo, and if the end credits/Chrono Cross are to be followed has a much greater impact on the universe than Marle ever does.
For another, what's notable about the other roles is that each character VAGUELY fits into one, but actively defies it in various ways. Robo is a non human character, but has some of the most emotionally charged scenes in the game and is arguably more human than some of the NPCs. Ayla is the 'child' but is acutely aware of the repercussions of her and others actions, and has a very adult understanding of doing what's needed to survive. Frog is the 'old character' for his involvement with Magus and his world weary attitude to heroism but... he is the same age as Crono, and ultimately shows that he's just as emotionally damaged as the rest of the cast.
Thirdly.
... honestly, I think I'd just declare Crono a Non-character and instead call Lucca the main protagonist, since... well... the game cracks JOKES about his non involvement in the story.
(Thinking about how each "role" relates to a character in ProZD's King Dragon Canon)
Great Video, would be awesome if you did a video for each role but in depth and seeing how maybe the roles have changed through time and what roles are more used in a Western RPGs incontrast to JRPG. Be interesting what roles u break down in the Trails games.
This is a great video! You make a ton of great points and put in quite the work. you get my like and sub
Would Mitsuru from Persona 3 classify as an old character? Also great video :)
Yeah
In a lot of ways, yes. While she really doesn’t have the standard age gap, she does have a lot of similarities. She’s the team mom. She’s in a more adult relationship (arraigned marriage). She’s older than most the party, and she’s been involved with the Dark Hour for quite some time.
While not the archetype, she fits.
In JRPG, over 20 years old, old (applies to male characters too)
Yeah since she's the 'senior'
Clearly she's the main character ;)
Kidding aside, doesn't she fit the "secondary protagonist" definition better? She has the familial connection to the Kirijo Group which is the driving force behind the events of the story, and it's kinda difficult for the plot to progress without her. I guess Yukari kinda fits the definition too, but maybe in the case of P3 there's more than one?
1:10 Dude, you only used the word "usually" maybe 3 times throughout this entire video, if even that many times. 🤔😂 Just teasing, good video. 👍
Final Fantasy 8:
Main Protagonist: Squall
Secondary Protagonist: Rinoa (also the love interest)
Best friend: Zell
Old character: Quistis. even though she was only a year older than everyone else she is treated as the old person in the group. She's their teacher and an experienced SeeD member.
Child character: Selphie
non-human character: Irvine. Because that dude's a beast. Lol
IRVINE LMFAO XD
Nice video dude. I would suggest looking into the time these games were made and how they relate to other common character tropes at the time. You will see a lot of the influence, but it is quite a deep research dive...
A secondary protagonist is called a deuterogamist.
That would probably mean something like "second marriage" rather than "second actor". The word you're looking for is "deuteragonist".
As opposed to the character who plays the trumpet, the dooteragonist.
Or would that be the character who plays the horn? It's all brass to me.
Why do you never mention anything from golden sun? Isaac is the perfect main pro, garet is the definition of the best friend character, ivan is a kid, kraden is the old one, etc
Golden Sun is truly the definition of underrated games.
Something we all notice after playing a lot of jRPGs yet it's always nice to see it in a nice video - gj man.
great video, just stumbled onto this randomly.
It's a shame you address so few franchises in this list. For a game that is great mostly because it breaks the mold so well, you might want to get Lost Odyssey.
I got about half way through lost odyssey and dropped it. I don't really know what it was, I tried to like it, but I just found it to be extremely boring. Some day I'll probably give it another try.
Fiora shouldve been the best friend character. Melia fits better as a secondary protagonist. Her story is also the most tragic too so HAH
All I remember from XBC1 is how fun it is to play Melia at high level, building up buffs and then suddenly everything dies.
I literally left her in the bench because I'm more about having rein take the pain and sharla healing the shit out of him while ricky does the damage over time stack. And use shulk for story progression too...
She is best girl
No. The romance between Shulk and Fiora is absolutely perfect. Having him get with Melia would've really brought down the overall quality of the game. Melia is also introduced way to late in the story to be the secondary protagonist, she would not fit. She's kind of a mary sue actually. Fiora's way more down to earth and relatable. Egil has the most tragic backstory of all the characters; you can't convince anyone otherwise.
Fiora is also sexier than Melia, and wears 2 piece swimsuits instead of one piece. Fiora is best girl.
@@raleo7466 Absolutely agree that he does great DOT, but I cannot stand the Heropon. And Reyn was Wakka-level annoying to me, so I tried to only ever use Melia, Sharla, Dunban, and Fiora. I did confirm that the furball does great things with his skills after having read about it one day, but I couldn't bring myself to actually use him regularly despite that.
subbed, love to see more of you in the future !
I need more of these videos
you're not analyzing the structure of jrpg parties, you're just describing the characters of most popular jrpgs with little to no consideration on the matter, you're not even naming the literary tropes they're part of, just superficial observation of obvious patterns.
The composition of a jrpg party (or the representation of any character in any video game) is the combination of artistic and commercial objectives and considerations
-Characters are first part of literature, not game design, so they're must be approached as such, they don't have big swords just because it serves the game design, they've big swords because its a literature tool to represent power and agency, and then they are implemented in game design.
swords in literature and culture represent nobility, righteousness, power, a regal symbol of king, thats why they're popular, not because some asians in squaresoft decided it just looked cool, and thats why you don't see Hammers and axes as the weapons of most main characters, those being first and foremost tools of farmers and peasants, and not inherently symbols of status and power.
Also swords, being a phallic object, in culture the sword often represents sexuality, or the male prowess, a male symbol, so rpgs being a fantasy mostly for young boys and young male adults, a big swords hits a subconscious desire of having a "big dick", symbolizing his power as a man and reaffirming his masculinity.
They're young because most of the target public are children and teenagers, they're the "chosen ones" because every teen wants to believe they're special, its the exploitation of mental biases, the same way most of the stories are "coming of age" stories, to reflect the inner turmoil of teens becoming young adults.
the same way the villains of those games are often old men, or old institutions as the church, or the goverment, it reflects the animosity and rebelliousness of the new young generation against the adults, the main antagonist of teenagers and children, the teacher, the old principal, the estranged father, the police officer, the boss of your office, those old evil emperors in games are nothing more than a hyperbole of those aspects of the teenager mind.
the same way gritty hardcore FPS depict buff hardcore alpha males characters, they have another target audience in mind.
the "animal characters" are "nature heroes" they're the personification of a environmentalist message and ideals against the exploitation and abuse of nature and natural resources (like elves and hobbits), some might even have a anti consumerist/industrialist message, like sonic the hedgehog, some of them are animals to symbolize this even further.
i've no problem with brief videos on the subject, but you're falling short of even remotely approaching anything relevant on the matter, i think you can do better.
Fuck this got me good, ahahahahahahaha
@Dom'sDominatingGaming I am 99% certain that they're being sarcastic / ironic. It had me on a bit run until the environmental message and anti-consumerism bit. Shit's funny.
@@StevenTheWonderPony I don't think they're being sarcastic. All they said are pretty common analyses, nothing out of the ordinary.
You could even say a big sword represents BIG DICK ENERGY.
@Dom'sDominatingGaming Even Freud ended up thinking most of his concepts were idiotic in the end, but it seems lots of people still latch onto them anyway.
It's quite obvious you haven't play Trails in the Sky yet. It definitely doesn't fit into your Main/Secondary protag definition. Seriously, If you love JRPGs, the Trails series is one of the best (I'd say best) series out there.
ditto.
Trails in the Sky is my favorite JRPG series ever but it's core party does fall into some of these tropes. Tita is obviously a child character, Schera and Agate and to an extent Zin function as older characters. Estelle and Joshua are dual protagonists that have a love interest dynamic and Kloe plays the best friend/rival role for Estelle. Olivier doesn't fit any of the main types but oddball seems applicable, and he's an outsider as far as being Erebonian. Where Trails is most different is how it uses its characters, especially later in 2nd and through the whole of the last game.
Fucking moron that games trash
I wish the series was more mainstream, it's seriously the best JRPG series I've ever played out of dozens 😢😢
Trails is boring as hell
That Tidus joke hit right in the feels.
Final fantasy 7
Male Character: Cloud
Second Character: Aerith
Best Friend: Tifa/Barret
Old Man: Cid (?)/Vincent (?)
Non-Human Character: Caith Sith/Red/Vincent
Child: Red/Yuffie
"Secondary protagonist" has a word for it, being "deuteragonist." Don't ask how anyone is supposed to know that without looking it up. English sucks.
It looks like 'second protagonist' written in French or Latin.
that was a nice video to watch. thanks
Really interesting, great video!
Another thing I notice in a lot of JRPGs is this interesting divide between what I would consider the protagonist and what you call the secondary protagonist, which I've called the 'main character' in the past. Normally the protagonist is the main character, but a lot of JRPGs do a thing where the protagonist is more of a self-insert that's there to help a character who is much more central to the story, which I consider the 'main character' because the story's events rely on them. For example, Tiz in Bravely Default is the primary antagonist, but every other character is far more integral to the story, especially Agnes. The story would not occur if it were not for Agnes's particular goals and motivations, and she sets everything in motion. I feel like that's the source of the divide in a lot of JRPGs, where the protagonist is the audience's means to take part in a story set in motion by the secondary protagonist/main character.
It's typically a male protagonist and a female main character, as you pointed out with the protagonist usually being a dude and the secondary protagonist being a girl. Tidus and Yuna from FFX, Itsuki and Tsubasa from Tokyo Mirage Sessions, the aforementioned Tiz and Agnes from Bravely Default. An interesting example comes in FFXII where Vaan is the protagonist, but I can't decide if Ashe or Basche or Balthier should be the main character in the idea. Ashe seems the most integral to the story, Basche was originally GOING to be the protagonist and main character, and Balthier steals the show.
In Fire Emblem Awakening it's Chrom/Lucina as the main characters moving the story plot and Robin (can be either male or female) as the protagonist/literal self-insert avatar that affects the plot's progress.
I know I'm like super late but I love this
I'm so glad a Skies of Arcadia character was mentioned.
That was interesting and fun. Thanks
Why is your video so relaxing ? 🙂
I could not agree more about your sentiment towards the mascot character.
Great observations! While this is interesting on its own, especially according to games and such, it is, believe it or not, solid writing advice, when it comes to the variety of characters and their structures.
Interesting how this applies to Grandia 2 without even being mentioned. xD
Main -> Ryudo
Secondary -> Elena
Best Friend -> Skye (kinda)
Old -> Mareg
Child -> Roan
Non-Human -> Tio
Explanations also fit pretty well, hm...
so great you mentioned beat
I saw the use of Tales of games, and I approve.
Great video, just subbed!
I couldn’t help but think about The first Star Wars movie, as Luke is the Main Character, Leia is the Secondary Protagonist, Han is the Best Friend, Obi Wan is the Old Character, Chewbacca is the Non Human Character and maybe R2 or C3PO may fill into the child character, as they are comic relief. Very interesting to see this dynamic outside of rpgs (Again, just to show how easy it is to spot the hero’s journey, or maybe the influence of star wars in pop culture).
Dude, for such a small channel this video is very nicely done.
I kept going back to two games when describing the roles and finding some discrepancies. Tales of Symphonia and Golden Sun. For ToS, the "Old" character is a female (Raine) and in GS its not part of the active party (Kraden). In ToS there are two child characters (Genis and Presea) and in GS there are none (unless you count Ivan due to being younger or Garet due to being... ..well, Garet). GS is actually very interesting due to being separated into two parties: the protagonist and best friend being part of the party in game one, and the old man, secondary protagonist and "rival" in the second game.
I also wanted to point that the "Old" and "Child" characters might not necesarily be 'old' or 'young', take the Persona series, for example, the "Old" role is assigned to Naoto in P4, who is actually younger than the main cast.
Anyway, tropes are nice to look at and then find examples of exceptions.