Glasgow Gangster In Max Security Prison: Kevin Dooley | True Crime Podcast 42

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  • Опубліковано 29 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 311

  • @PaulGlancy-fp7ob
    @PaulGlancy-fp7ob Рік тому +6

    Hearing a fellow Glaswegian talk this way has always been pretty fascinating, the True Crime issues, the punishment's, lessons learned. This was almost as good as Johnny Boy, and i take nothing from Kevin, i couldn't even try. Im 58 in 2 weeks, and the tunnel looking back at your life isn't as long as it feels. Childhood Trauma affects all kinds of that adults future. Hats off Kevin, and you've got all you need for a good life for you and your children. Gasped out loud when you dropped the bombshell of your boys tragic death. No parent should outlive their kids. Things happen of course. Take care..Paul.

  • @Bren.74
    @Bren.74 5 років тому +44

    Kevin is a gentleman a great friend and an inspiration.His selfless work in the town we both live and beyond has saved many lives over many years now and that includes mine.It's wonderful to see him thriving.Long may it continue.I look forward to watching this cast next month.Well done for shining a light on Kevin and I hope this gets a lot of hits.

    • @kevinc.dooley5744
      @kevinc.dooley5744 5 років тому +4

      Cheers Brendan!

    • @Bren.74
      @Bren.74 5 років тому +5

      Kevin C. Dooley What an enthralling interview ! Some of it I was familiar with but a lot of it I wasn't.I Just wanted to say thanks to you Kevin for sharing and also thanks to you Shaun for giving Kevin the exposure and recognition he deserves.Definitely should be followed up with a part two which includes his twin brother Brian ,that would be pretty interesting.

    • @lizhall4473
      @lizhall4473 5 років тому

      @@Bren.74 couldn't agree more! Love Mr D.
      FRoM LoNdOn wiV LoVE 💋

    • @alanmurray5334
      @alanmurray5334 5 років тому +1

      Kevin C. Dooley great guy

  • @freespirit4706
    @freespirit4706 4 роки тому +16

    Kevin is a legend in Weston-super-Mare he's helped many people over the years recover from alcoholism and drug addiction. He's a shining example that change is possible if you're brave enough to ask for help. 🌟

  • @richarddaniel6992
    @richarddaniel6992 5 років тому +11

    One of the best podcasts I've ever seen, what a man and what a story, thank you for sharing and thank you for caring about others who need help.

  • @clouter8103
    @clouter8103 5 років тому +59

    Kevin is 100% legit. The picture he paints of his early years in Glasgow is so vivid it transports me back in time. What an interview. I feel there could have been more in it, another hour at least but thats just me being selfish. I would love to hear more about his relationship with his twin Brian and his insight. Would be amazing to have them both on. Thanks Shaun and Kevin. As Oliver Twist would say 'please can I have some more'

    • @clouter8103
      @clouter8103 5 років тому +5

      @J T I've been on the bridge he's talking about doing the things he's talking with people he's talking about. That's about all I'm going to print on. Hope that clarified my location as you did ask. Anything else?

    • @clouter8103
      @clouter8103 5 років тому +2

      @Ian Mangham Are you being sarcastic or is it out of concern?

  • @sconniepanda5835
    @sconniepanda5835 5 років тому +21

    The 'Glaesga boys' used to have a real affinity with the people in the area they came from. Drugs largely destroyed that kind of community. The Glasgow crews always were at their best operating away from home...where they were much in demand...still are....and not many of them became the 'folklore comedians' that some of their English compatriots seemed to morph into. Kevin here is a good guy...and really worth listening to with a great outlook on things. Great interview...again Shaun.

    • @scotland2256
      @scotland2256 5 років тому

      Strange observation, but very true

  • @rossmrmojorisin9579
    @rossmrmojorisin9579 4 роки тому +28

    The Scott's have the greatest patter and bring their stories to life BIG shout out to all the Scott's...they know who they are. love from c/bank.

    • @jimbrown4456
      @jimbrown4456 4 роки тому +2

      Good man 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧

    • @julianshepherd2038
      @julianshepherd2038 3 роки тому +5

      Scots

    • @ConCon75
      @ConCon75 3 роки тому +4

      I often think Glasgow Belfast Dublin and d Liverpool are all very similar, hard but good people. With a god complex haha.

    • @donnagreer6558
      @donnagreer6558 2 роки тому +2

      Big shout tae you tae

    • @thomaswebsternum1547
      @thomaswebsternum1547 Рік тому +3

      Hit the nail on the head Scottish all the way. IRVINE WEST COAST OF SCOTLAND 🙈🙉🙊🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿💙🥇🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

  • @CCTV1984
    @CCTV1984 2 роки тому +3

    Definitely one of the best interviews and what a funny guy.

  • @davidcowley
    @davidcowley 3 роки тому +4

    I would love to see and listen to Kevin & Brian together, I bet the patter would be brilliant, all the Best to you Kevin

  • @standfree-el7dg
    @standfree-el7dg 4 роки тому +6

    Absolutely Brilliant podcast this was gripping from start to finish.. Kevin should be proud of himself 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🙏

  • @halfmanhalfbearhalfpig
    @halfmanhalfbearhalfpig 5 років тому +31

    That was a great podcast. Would be great to have Brian on his own. Then the two of them together.
    Keep em coming Shaun.

    • @pjg1569
      @pjg1569 5 років тому

      So crime obviously pays

  • @DebbiePurse
    @DebbiePurse Місяць тому

    In tears listening to this man’s story 😢great that he has been able to recover and make a new life for himself and his family 👏🏻💙

  • @michaelburnett7809
    @michaelburnett7809 4 роки тому +3

    What a story Kevin , you’ve had some life mate, and so happy you are out the other side. Amazing.

  • @laurence345
    @laurence345 5 років тому +6

    I know Kevin from around my local town.Always says hello and shakes my hand when I see him around..True gent and much respect👍👍👍

  • @lennylad8129
    @lennylad8129 5 років тому +25

    Hands down the best podcast so far. I have never heard of kevin dooley but his story is fascinating. Love old glaswegian characters. Shaun attwood you should maybe try and get hugh collins on your show. Another old glasgow character with a really interesting life story

    • @stephendocherty3502
      @stephendocherty3502 5 років тому +1

      Hugh Collins would be excellent

    • @lucasjones7555
      @lucasjones7555 5 років тому

      pure mental wee chap.

    • @michaelburnett7809
      @michaelburnett7809 4 роки тому

      Yes that would be a good one, I read his book of his life story, his gang life and all his prison life. Book was a good read.

    • @douggeorge2178
      @douggeorge2178 4 роки тому

      Hugh Collins, yeah good shout

    • @ceecee2275
      @ceecee2275 2 роки тому

      Hugh Collins sadly passed away

  • @boogaloo8204
    @boogaloo8204 3 роки тому +2

    We was fighting on the bridge with weapons.......Shaun: what injuries did you inflict? Severe ones 🤣🤣

  • @scotland2256
    @scotland2256 5 років тому +8

    Never seen Shaun so happy as when Kevin is explaining the intricacies of Young Teams and Gang fighting in Glasgow 😂 got to love the place

  • @shades2356
    @shades2356 4 роки тому +2

    I'm speechless! Thank you. You are a blessing.
    From South Africa ❤

  • @darylmchugh4407
    @darylmchugh4407 4 роки тому +4

    What an amazing pod cast good job with this one Shaun you picked a good guy to talk to on this one,he as been through so much pain and hardship but he is so strong and such a humble and nice guy , Kevin god bless you brother 👏👏👏👏

  • @chrisdunnet5662
    @chrisdunnet5662 3 роки тому +2

    Guy a class act am a recovering alcoholic not drank over 4 years still battle everyday keep up the gd wrk Kevin

  • @jamiehendry7758
    @jamiehendry7758 3 роки тому +1

    Did someone just fart around about 24 mins 30 seconds in 😂😂 brilliant interview keep up the good work

  • @johnhanlon3257
    @johnhanlon3257 3 роки тому +2

    Excellent Kevin really good to see you again pal, it's been a long time since we last spoke in the gorbals, looking forward to reading the book, hope you're well and doing good. Sooside has changed a lot since we last met, take care of yourself and Brian 🙏

  • @kellyrackstrawjones
    @kellyrackstrawjones 5 років тому +8

    Loved him!! What a great story teller, need to see him with Brian!! The last anecdote was brilliant!! Xxx

  • @Good.shepherd420
    @Good.shepherd420 5 років тому +2

    Man ya know, all of the bank robbers i have met have been real stand up guys in rough situations.
    That was super heavy thank you for sharing.

  • @jamesowen7977
    @jamesowen7977 5 років тому +2

    Great interview and very inspiring. Loving the podcast shaun 👍🏻

  • @paulgracie
    @paulgracie 5 років тому +13

    Only a glasgow gangster would get away with that shirt and jacket lol 😉😉

  • @johnnybrown779
    @johnnybrown779 5 років тому +14

    Another great guest shaun keep up the good work.

  • @janalmond4003
    @janalmond4003 4 роки тому +2

    An amazing testimony! Very valuable information which can help many people. Thank you for your courage!

  • @mrchoadafication
    @mrchoadafication 4 роки тому +2

    Great podcast
    Kevin had a bad time but turned it around
    Viva Kev Dooley

  • @ronanhughes9498
    @ronanhughes9498 5 років тому +6

    Great interview lads, hopefully we'll see Kevin back on here again..keep up the good work Shaun !!

  • @matthewbaxter9005
    @matthewbaxter9005 4 роки тому +1

    Great interview Kevin it was inspirational.Keep your head up.

  • @cookielady9995
    @cookielady9995 5 років тому +15

    He sounds like a Scottish Marlon Brando! Great podcast!

  • @briandocherty4024
    @briandocherty4024 Місяць тому

    Great podcast I have heard of Kevin& his family back in my days of growing up as I moved to the southside and heard the names from staying down the gorbals. Great to see Kevin do so well always a good memories shared

  • @charsibaba6960
    @charsibaba6960 5 років тому +11

    Terrific guest with an inspiring story.......hope you can have him back with his brother.

  • @lucky15voodoo
    @lucky15voodoo 5 років тому +5

    Magic . Wot a story a real scrapper in many ways. God bless.

  • @fatwhitejen5035
    @fatwhitejen5035 5 років тому +14

    Aww, that was so good. I've got a vested interest in watching as Kevin is my uncle. I remember visiting him in the Southern General after the 'incident'. Kevin won't remember, he was unaware of absolutely everything. Very distressing to witness. His injuries, loss of language and confusion were very serious and at the time thought to be permanent. Coming back from that was truly miraculous. I mind when he was on the run and had been booked into a men's hostel in Glasgow under an assumed name which paid homage to a certain member of The Jam haha. How can I remember that name but have to put effort into rhyming off ma weans's dates of birth! Had to lol at Shaun asking if Kevin remembers my Granda dying and Mam taking breakdowns. Aye, nae bother, Shaun, lots of 6 month old babies form life-long memories like that..... Well done, Kevin, so pleased for how your life's turned out. Love you, Jennifer ♪

  • @ronnieanderson7501
    @ronnieanderson7501 5 років тому +5

    What a guy man,fantastic interview.

  • @brettbambouturton3117
    @brettbambouturton3117 3 роки тому

    Best podcast ever , a remarkable and very humble human being..

  • @skree100
    @skree100 5 років тому +3

    Brilliant guest. Very moving story

  • @MaTTheWish
    @MaTTheWish 5 років тому +2

    Great episode Shaun and Kevin...

  • @Sheso62
    @Sheso62 5 років тому +13

    If not me then who? If not now then when? One of my favorite sayings. Fascinating interview. You are both sweet men ❤️. Loved it.

  • @garytazcarroll8623
    @garytazcarroll8623 4 роки тому +5

    Served Time in Perth Prison with Kevin and he was well Respected, great interview, Respect from Dundee bro xx Shaun R,I,P. Wildman xx Gutted i wont ever get to treat him to a few beers, has a message from him recently xx

  • @castrovalleyjock
    @castrovalleyjock 5 років тому +6

    Good interview Shaun. This story used to be the norm in every working class area of Glasgow.

  • @michaelflamson9855
    @michaelflamson9855 4 роки тому +1

    Great podcast and one of the best

  • @Alberkidd
    @Alberkidd Рік тому +1

    Good guy Kevin helped many people love to see him and Brian together good craic

  • @BillyButcher91
    @BillyButcher91 5 років тому +3

    Another great podcast, thanks Shaun

  • @Klove5343
    @Klove5343 5 років тому +1

    Thanks so much for the 30 minute notice. It's much appreciated!

  • @davidabkk
    @davidabkk 5 років тому +3

    this one great, really enjoyed it thanks

  • @wibble1999
    @wibble1999 5 років тому +6

    his parents and extended family can be proud of this chap and his brother. H could teach all these human rights advocates a thing or three....four ten!!! a real genuine caring bloke

  • @joycemiller9851
    @joycemiller9851 5 років тому +16

    This be another gd 1 Shaun but c' Mon 2 f**k cut the reminder thing out an jus tell us a day or two b4 it air's ma boii it's so bloody hardcore getting told & then having to wait a fortnight lol thanks pal keep them coming Shaun I watch them all brother hats off to you mate 👌👍💪💯🔥

  • @TheDrFMG
    @TheDrFMG 5 років тому +1

    Shaun man, said it before but loving your interviews. Also digging the wildman (putting work in) /Shaun combo. Is there some award that subscribers can nominate you for??? Seriously impressed with your work.

  • @jeanetteschostak9733
    @jeanetteschostak9733 4 роки тому

    Brilliant really enjoyed this interview. Inspirational!!!

  • @fredbert4048
    @fredbert4048 4 роки тому +4

    am english but with a scots dad am same age as ya men ..half my childhood was in tollcross and brigton..watching this hes spot on

  • @mcconaloguecharlie1
    @mcconaloguecharlie1 5 років тому +1

    Cracking interview lads

  • @johncongalton3519
    @johncongalton3519 2 роки тому +2

    Cracking guy...never blames anyone else for his own actions..people living in suburbia welcome to 70,s Glasgow. Keep it up Kevin.💪👏👏

  • @chris103050
    @chris103050 5 років тому +6

    Kevin, thank you for sharing, enjoy the rest of your life.

  • @chrishumphries584
    @chrishumphries584 2 роки тому +1

    Good PODCAST GUYS- relate so much Kevin, in in the grip of addiction, needed 2 listen to YOU 2 nite, it's my birthday 2day..and never felt as lonely, had 10year clean in past, but as you said I'm USING WEN I dont want 2 be, my dad is also GLASWEGIAN Anderson, hes got Parkinson disease..my USING has been over 30years, the power of ADDICTIONS has nearly cost me losing my leg, hearing you tonight I could relate 2 the madness so much and how you turned it around is commendable, I'm hoping to be going 2 treatment soon..could I MAYBE CONTACT you on Facebook or the other links you have..I'm not that great with social media but I'm getting there lol

  • @christhomson7319
    @christhomson7319 5 років тому +1

    Keep up the good work Sean 👌

  • @jupitorious7925
    @jupitorious7925 3 роки тому

    brilliant interview, what an articulate gentleman

  • @trishabristoeno1
    @trishabristoeno1 9 місяців тому

    Loved it
    Loved all the fellas from Glasgow x

  • @brenthumphreys5747
    @brenthumphreys5747 5 років тому +4

    Looking forward to this one. I will know the inside of many establishments mentioned on this probably. Great work Shaun.

  • @pinkmilkbmx6258
    @pinkmilkbmx6258 5 років тому +4

    Incredible as always 💯

  • @algonquinbriar5647
    @algonquinbriar5647 5 років тому +3

    Hello Shaun. I am enjoying your channel. This was a very interesting interview. Well done. Thank you and be well.

  • @tarronspencer5483
    @tarronspencer5483 Рік тому

    Great stuff Kevin well done in your recovery and may it continue 🙏❤

  • @ajb441
    @ajb441 4 роки тому +1

    Brilliant, well done, stay strong.

  • @scotland2256
    @scotland2256 5 років тому +20

    Shaun your killing me with these wait times lol, great content though. Good for you one of the few youtubers who has the balls to talk about the epstein situation and associate with David Icke

    • @joycemiller9851
      @joycemiller9851 5 років тому +2

      Well said brother

    • @KJJ8518
      @KJJ8518 5 років тому +2

      I'm a massive fan of Shauns but the Icke conspiracy vids really are not for me. It puts me to sleep.

  • @spencerstewart6516
    @spencerstewart6516 3 роки тому +1

    A pal of mine was brought up in theGorbels ... His dad had a number 1 hit in the 80s called Airport. He told me some tales

  • @charlenethomas2346
    @charlenethomas2346 5 років тому +11

    Only 2 wee days to go Shaun looking forward to this one,much love,joy and peace always

  • @twistedpreacher2455
    @twistedpreacher2455 5 років тому +3

    Listened to the podcast on Spotify and it did not picture this dude to look like this. He's doing alright considering the life he's had!!

  • @brendanbradley2407
    @brendanbradley2407 2 роки тому +1

    That's was great Kevin would listen to him all day that man will do a lot of good

  • @PaulJames-uz5yl
    @PaulJames-uz5yl 5 років тому +3

    great guest Shaun...

  • @Hopeandpeaceinjesus
    @Hopeandpeaceinjesus 5 років тому +5

    Hey from Glasgow again, Shaun 😂 I do enjoy our lots prison stories etc. What happened to our young teams and elders? Just got my first tracky jackets/tops lol definitely get where they were coming from now...

  • @charlesgallaher8550
    @charlesgallaher8550 5 років тому +6

    Respect to that guy wish him all the best

  • @andywilson2216
    @andywilson2216 5 років тому +7

    could listen to kevin all-day, confident speaker but your gonna be when your not rabbling shite like some ive heard. Seems a genuine nice guy

  • @williamnixon3071
    @williamnixon3071 5 років тому +5

    I was born on Waterside street. I remember it all well.

  • @Quadrex7
    @Quadrex7 5 років тому +4

    Great stuff.

  • @fifes0ul
    @fifes0ul 5 років тому +7

    In every town, school, remand center, City, across the UK there will be countless people of all ages that could be saved by listening to Kevin, the system I suppose does it’s bit to help but in my opinion it’s Kevin and his life his story his unfortunate pain that can really help. When I was young and to this day I hate authority don’t trust it, I just always feel like there not the same as me, or there going thru the motions then off back to there nice house, car etc, of course there is always some that are honestly trying to help, but listening to Kevin is different, you feel connected, , like there is a deeper understanding, it is like it is, like you can open up without feeling like your going to be let down, and feel fucked over for trusting someone with your shit.
    Anyway like I said up and down the UK there is lost, angry, rejected souls out there that could find freedom from there inner turmoil thru Kevin’s work

  • @cosmicdebris42
    @cosmicdebris42 5 років тому +5

    Wow! This guys life is very similar to mine. Done the DC when i was 17. Short sharp shock. Was battered a couple of times by an Belfast Screw called Murphy. There was another one called Mair. They were real bastards. The only good thing was i came out like an Athlete. You couldn't smoke either, and had to march past the Young offenders on the other side of the fence lying down chilling on the grass smoking. I'm from Aberdeen and formed a friendship with a guy called John Mills from Glasgow. We went to church cause it was the only place you could talk. Any other conversation was a whisper when the screws had there backs turned. I took a good thrashing from that arsehole screw Murphy when he caught me whispering to my buddy Mills'y. Love to meet Kevin. We are almost the same age and could have a great conversation about Glen Ochils.

  • @davidskeeterskeeter1835
    @davidskeeterskeeter1835 5 років тому +2

    Fuck me,he should get some bird just fo his dress sense’ !!!! 😂😂😂😂

  • @1ironmikeoc
    @1ironmikeoc 5 років тому +6

    Get Kevin and Brian on together of course

  • @bazglsgw1208
    @bazglsgw1208 2 роки тому +1

    My dad was one of 10. I dont think we had tvs in Glasgow back then 😂

  • @clydekelvinandthesinners.3977
    @clydekelvinandthesinners.3977 5 років тому +7

    Great interview of an interesting guy with a good attitude.

  • @eliseoconnor9647
    @eliseoconnor9647 5 років тому +5

    What a wonderful interview, Shaun. Thank you so much for your great work! The angels that walk among us do not bare wings and halos, but we know they are angels nevertheless. God bless you both.

  • @jamesslaven4103
    @jamesslaven4103 5 років тому +3

    what an incredible life, great vid Shaun liked this one a lot

  • @williamnixon3071
    @williamnixon3071 5 років тому +7

    A PURVEY TABLE. LOL. The Gorbals. Where they take their ashes doon tae the midden in a briefcase
    .

  • @cryptonewbie3699
    @cryptonewbie3699 5 років тому +2

    what a great story, thank you guys.

  • @BritishBoy1971
    @BritishBoy1971 5 років тому +5

    Another great character from north of the border.
    Thank you! 😊👍

  • @JohnEJay-wh2th
    @JohnEJay-wh2th 5 років тому +4

    Fantastic interview!

  • @scotland2256
    @scotland2256 5 років тому +12

    Shaun just to clarify, the Gorbals is not the posh part of Glasgow, It is famous though 😂

    • @andrewmckenna00
      @andrewmckenna00 5 років тому +8

      Yeh, Sarcasm there, At that time Gorbal's would have been one of most deprived area's in GLASGOW

    • @scotland2256
      @scotland2256 5 років тому +5

      Once got a knife pulled on me in the Arches (famous club in glasgow now shut down, and told, I quote
      'Give me your pills, I'm fae the gorbals' 😂😂😂

    • @westie420uk
      @westie420uk 5 років тому +1

      @@scotland2256 what did you do?

    • @scotland2256
      @scotland2256 5 років тому +1

      @@westie420uk Said 'I haven't got any' while walking backwards slowly into the crowd ,tripping out my box lol. I'm no coward but no hero either 😂

    • @jameswaddell9370
      @jameswaddell9370 5 років тому

      Gorbals is an absolute shite hole 😂😂 still is.

  • @chrisdunnet5662
    @chrisdunnet5662 3 роки тому

    Are u getting Kevin and Bryan on kevs stortys are class

  • @JimiBegbaaji
    @JimiBegbaaji 3 роки тому

    To be the same age as nieces and nephews, maybe even older. That's mind-blowing!

  • @lilacflower1312
    @lilacflower1312 4 роки тому +1

    Great banta lol great interview x great guy

  • @brak777
    @brak777 5 років тому +6

    This is a fascinating story. You can tell that everything this guy is saying is true

  • @JohnSmith-xz5jx
    @JohnSmith-xz5jx 5 років тому +1

    Love all your videos Shaun. Not sure if you appreciate requests or not, but would be great to have on somebody who went to prison after being caught selling on the dark web. I'm sure you've mentioned the Ross Ulbricht case before, so something along those lines.

    • @branchinghenk
      @branchinghenk 5 років тому +1

      John Smith to soon they haven’t served their time yet 😂

  • @That_spicy_rocco
    @That_spicy_rocco 4 місяці тому

    No way I was in hope house with this guy. Absolutely lovely bloke

  • @allanbuchan1642
    @allanbuchan1642 2 роки тому +1

    By the way there is no exaggeration in kevs stories from Perth top security Hall. I was there I Knew Brian from Borstal too. Never met more genuine guys in my time in the jails. Funny with it. Take it easy lads

  • @dalekennedy6641
    @dalekennedy6641 5 років тому +6

    Sober 16 years, inspired awesome

    • @kevinc.dooley5744
      @kevinc.dooley5744 5 років тому

      thank you

    • @dinkydoo5440
      @dinkydoo5440 5 років тому +1

      Kevin C. Dooley Really enjoyed listening to your story Kevin I’ve listened to family members story’s about growing up around the same time and they are very similar. Good to see your doing well and wish you and your brother the best 👍🏻

    • @exlibrisross
      @exlibrisross 5 років тому +1

      @@kevinc.dooley5744, 28yrs sober, from the other side of the barricades, thank God that we survived when so many didn't. Blessings ever from Belfast, wishing you all the best.

  • @SI-up7zi
    @SI-up7zi 5 років тому +3

    One of the best ...

  • @brynjones638
    @brynjones638 5 років тому +3

    Glesga boys are all fucking comedians. Their always good for a giggle. And I meant that in a respectful way.

  • @youtubeaddict9948
    @youtubeaddict9948 4 роки тому +4

    Heard so many guys his age talk about hmp glenochil back in the day. It’s a walk in the park now the drug workers used to take us there when we were kids to work out with the cons to try and scare us. I was in kibble and Rossie farm but I’m only 26 it was easy for me I feel for guys like Kevin they had it really bad.