WARNING: Do NOT try and mod a TV that only has an RF antenna input, it is likely this is a "live chassis" TV and the internal circuitry is not isolated and is at main potential. This could kill you, or worse, blow up your vintage computer.
This reminded me of when I was in electronics school. One of the instructors worked part time for a company that repaired arcade machines. They had a bunch of monitors that had some screen burn were still functional. He brought in enough for anyone that wanted to get a color monitor for their computer and learn a little in the process. The monitors accepted a CGA input but one of the sync signals was inverted. Too long ago to remember which one. So we built a little single transistor inverter on a piece of perf. board and were ready to go. Nothing too complex but it was a simple way for a couple of us cash starved students to get get a color monitor.
The component differences on the brazilian TV are most likely due how to bypass some brutal import taxes, you have to manufacture things in brazil itself on a tax free zone in manaus. So they probably redesigned the tv to get a good cost/benefit while shopping locally and/or importing cheaper components.
Hi Dave, thanks for the in depth video. It helped me with modifying the same model trinitron. For a challenge, I utilised the existing front ports and installed a touch sensor to make it a switchless, no cut mod. Great video and everything was very well explained
You can shift the display left or right in software on the PCjr (or any PC with CGA): at the DOS prompt, type MODE 40,R or MODE 80,R for 40 or 80 columns of text, respectively, and to shift the screen right. You can repeat the command to shift the display farther. Use L instead of R to shift it left.
I do not post any videos on this account. It's strictly for viewing and commenting, to keep my subscriptions feed from getting too clogged up on my main account. If you want to see more videos from me, subscribe to my vwest7ife channel.
@@und4287 it did say something about "bonus videos", so it must have been changed since. Anyway the main channel seems to have my main channel blocked and attempted contact elsewhere was persistently ignored and I have no idea why...
Many retro gamers and other CRT fans consider the Sony Trinitron stuff to be some of the best CRTs out there (e.g. if you want something to play old consoles like NES and SNES on, a Trinitron is a good pick)
Last year I bought a Trinitron PVM and modded a SNES to output an RGB signal. It was beautiful! Then they came out with the Super NT which recreates the hardware faithfully and outputs HDMI. When paired with a low-lag LCD, it's even better looking, and a whole lot less money/trouble!
I remember hanging on for literally decades to a block camera from a Panasonic VCR recorder "Home theater camera" wishing I can use the camera for an RC plane... now is totally gone! I couldn't keep it collecting dust for ever.. it was a really good camera, auto focus, and about 40X Zoom... not every one can actually do this things.. great video sir! Cheers from the land of Fire here in Florida USA
Sony stuff from the 80s and 90s had amazingly comprehensive service manuals and silkscreens on the boards. The silkscreen of my WM-D6 (first model, all through hole) contains a wealth of part descriptions, boxed off sections etc.
I was wondering how you were going to deal with the horizontal and vertical sync. Nice trick using the composite input for sync and hacking into the RGB!
Trinitron fan checking in. After I grabbed a few Sony GDM-FW900 monitors that the university had in the e-cycle pile, I've been singing their praises. (I had a standing "agreement" with the people running that building that since they had to pay per pound for e-cycle, if a few CRT monitors disappeared from the pile before they were picked up, no-one would say anything.) This was in 2009 for me, and at the time LCD panels were not very good. The technology market switched to them before they were ready. I didn't start using LCD displays until after 2015, when the technology had finally caught up. One thing I loved about it was it could handle a refresh rate above 100 Hz with good resolution.
Way, way back went to a lot of trouble pulling an isolated 6MHz sound carrier feed out of my parents' TV to run through a sound IF strip feeding an induction loop I'd installed for my mother's hearing aid. Less than year later they replaced the set with one that had a SCART connector.
This is the first video I've seen that actually shows why you might want RGB. Switching like that is night and day! Now I'm gonna have to mod my dumpster TV...
When you think about it, if you only go back 100 - 150 years(which is very recent based on how long humans have been on this planet), man was practically living in the dark ages technology-wise. Most areas of the world didn't even have electricity in their homes going back less than 100 years. You have to wonder why it took so long to get where we are. A big mystery.
electronicsNmore not really. Farmers and women drive much of the tech sectors: timekeeping, oceanic navigation, GPS. Then you’ve got televised parodies featuring Gabor to throw doubt on this fact.
Trinitron monitor ftw...ive got one of the "flat screen" CRT trinitrons...its great for old school consoles/computers you should be able to find a "service menu" on the sonys...allowing you to change all the settings (atleast there is on mine!)..you still need the manual to get calibration correct (i accidently reset mine and lost all of its settings, picture was all wonky and colors where wrong... left it off and unplugged for about a month and it musta loaded a backup and came good!)
Back in 2002, someone gave me a Sony KX-27PS1 studio monitor. Unused, still in original packing crate! Full service manual was included in the crate. These were first built in 1982 I think, mine was a 1983 model from the date codes. It was quite funny reading the instructions, as they referenced the SCART connector... "For use with audio visual accessories which may be developed in the future" The SCART (or "PERI-TV") connector was full feature RGB, plus there was also a 34-pin interface connector with RGB. Paired with a Set-Top Box that had RGB output and a pair of shielded-magnet hifi speakers, this setup wiped the floor with anything else on the market for image quality, even 20 years on. I had gone LCD for the computer, but regarding TV/DVD at the time there was only Plasma that could offer anything close to the Trinitron Profeel.
Yeah this fast commutation signal is actually present on the SCART connector and is usually necessary for RGB although some TVs don't care. It's used to force the RGB input over the composite input, in theory it can be used to do RGB overlays when having both inputs in sync.
I suppose that IC were made with SCART in mind. In some board for US market simply the socket and circiutry to connect it to the chip was omitted. I suppose that comparing an NTSC and PAL model could give a clue of what is missing.
I love my big screen CRT Magnavox TV. Reminds me of my Mom's big screen which she bought after saving up when she stopped smoking. CRT has no lag when gaming. ;)
@@jaapweel1 Nobody said anything about women. Have you ever seen a soviet era television with real veneer case? Edit: Here, but do not sue for dropping your jaw. englishrussia.com/2007/09/06/old-soviet-tv-sets/ 😉
Gut out the VCR and use the cavity to build a small PC for classic computer/game emulation. Bonus points if you convert the tape slot into a ROM cartridge slot :)
@@EEVblog I bought these recently to get into a dead UPS at work: amzn.to/2LyQWkO #1 through #3 Philips, and two sizes of flat blades. Use them in a cordless screwdriver or a Picquic handle. They're not quite as long as in the video, but at 12", they should be long enough for most things.
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In France (and all Europe I think) was mandatory to have at least one SCART plug (called Peritel in France). It was used for absolutely anything: VHS tape recorder, pay channels decoders, satellite or cable TV, computers or anything here. We was never using composite (or thru the SCART as it's also part or it). It was very easy to build electronic to send data to the TV... and without microcontroller 😉
Valéry MARZLIN Yes, that’s true. It was used in many European countries. I think it’s still mandatory on TVs sold in Sweden, they could have changed that in the last couple of years though.
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@@ianbakke in France it's no more mandatory now as we have no more analog TV from 2011. Even the emitter I use to receive TV at home, the Eiffel tower 😉, is digital. Now HDMI is mandatory but you can still find some new TV set with 1 SCART but less and less.
Scart briefly feature in South Africa in the '90s. However, hardly anyone bothered with it because it's such a pita to work with. No two scart sockets are the same. The scart spec does not require every circuit in the spec to be present. More than half the pins are dual function. hence, you need to decide what your scart's function will be before you build it. For this same reason, most devices have two scart sockets wired for different functions. I ran into these issues when trying to use a C=128D with 1084s monitor. In theory, you could have just made a cable, but in practice, the analogue vga pins in the scart aren't compatible with digital ega signals.
@@EEVblog tvs for the european market have scart inputs even today. and most of them at least have composite and rgb inputs wired up properly, with the composite input being used as sync in rgb mode. what IS rarely used are the Y/C (s-video) inputs, since these aren't properly standardized. when you get an old crt tv here or even many modern tvs, you usually dont have to do anything for rgb. only those with 2 scart connectors probably have RGB wired to just one of them. All of this is because in france, the TV was required to have a SCART input BY LAW (and NO cinch connectors). and manufacturers of course sold the same tv in all of europe. RGB was heavily used here even up to the mid 2000s on external DVB-T receivers, DVD Players and so on. All of these had SCART outputs for this; many devices even ONLY had a scart output with everything being wired up to it internally.
@@BavarianM I bought a 4K Philips TV about 2 years ago and it still has a Scart connector. Not sure if it it includes RGB as well, but I've never seen one that doesn't.
With the comparison you made, composite shows 16 different colors, RGB only shows the same 8 x 2. The text is a lot more sharp on the RGB though. 27:25 btw.
If you found the right tv you wouldn't even need to do all this, rgb right at the back, maybe add a connector to it. But it would most likely be a huge tube tv which wouldn't be as convenient. I sported a flat screen, widescreen 1600 x 900 CRT monitor back in the day, when crt's were starting to be phased out. One thing that was cool about them was even if you had low resolution/ frame-rates, video's and games always looked sharp and smooth, because this was a high end monitor for it's time it had deep colors, great black composition. Wouldn't mind owning one again, for nostalgia points. ;)
So cool! That really brings me back, I had a PC XT clone with CGA adapter and boy did having such a limited color pallette stink while in the 4-color modes. Thanks for the video!
Reason for the external RGB for OSD is to get a stable OSD, using the MCU triggered off the flyback to time the OPSD, irrespective of the input actually having a sync signal applied, and only triggering randomly on noise.
RGB is king on retro computers and consoles! It looks 10 times better. I'm amazed an old CRT TV can look so good with RGB, but of course this is a Trinitron. I wish we got RGB SCART here in the USA back then.
The term "Jungle" is used to indicate that the chip is designed for TROPICAL regions. When I worked for a White/Brown goods importer, we supplied to hot countries refrigerators and freezers with "Jungle" compressors.
@@daverhodes382 lol, really, complexity, looks like most PCB's to me. Question, have you tried playing about with the OSD input and see if you can overlay your own additional input over the main input. Say you want one screen with two functions, if the OSD input can be driven, can't you push a signal like from a security video camera or one of those door cameras so you flick the OSD on to see who rang your door bell or automatically triggered by a door bell push. Make for a an interesting hack video.
I think you should be able to generate CSync by combining both HSync and VSync pins of the DB9 RGB socket in a way. Assuming all sync signals are positive, you can use logic gates, or simpler, only one NPN transistor configured as HSync to C, VSync to B through 1K resistor and you may get composite sync signal from E. Then you can connect it to the composite video input, since this signal only contains sync information (so there is no color/image signal) it will sync the RGB input without any interference. There should be no reason for an extra second video cable.
Around here we called it something more akin to 'VideoPlus? I'm not trusting that crap, it never works, set the timer manually and set it fifteen minutes early to start, fifteen late to stop, you know how they are with ads and stupid football matches lasting longer than they're supposed to.'
@@HighTreason610 Always worked fine here / for me, was great as it recorded whole series, type in the numbers, and the whole lot is recorded automatically :D
Unless you find a way to inject that sync with it's own connector, I'm thinking you want to rig up some sort of analogue delay on the color channels. That _should_ (hopefully) be enough to fix that "dancing screen" effect that you have on composite/component switch-over.
Except for some very high end sets, the picture shifting left always happened when switching to RGB mode on the SCART input. It is simply due to the more direct signal path of the RGB signals not having the couple of microseconds propagation delay that the composite signal processing introduces. The higher end sets had an H-Phase RGB mode offset control (not user accessible) to counteract this
The start-up buzz is usually the degauss coil and is usually hits and fades as thermister backs it off. The HV (anode) is the dust-attracting, static-y crackle.
The "Number of Lines" is always going to be consistent. 525 NTSC or 625 PAL. What is going to change is the bandwidth. So, perhaps 2 Mhz of bandwidth might give you the quality of VHS tape, but as you go up, the detail increases. The top end broadcast NTSC or PAL cameras had the same number of scanlines, but the bandwidth could be 5 Mhz or more. The resolution across a scanline is measured in "line pairs", and that could go into the thousands with a high-end camera. A VHS tape might give you 200 or 300 line pairs.
From what I've seen, there's typically a diode somewhere between the Micom and the Fast Commutate/RGB blanking pin on the jungle, so what you can do is just leave the TV's circuit for that line intact and just add your own blanking signal straight in the pin on the chip (I just use the 5v from SCART), you'll get RGB when you have something driving the SCART, and standard inputs without, a switchless install. Seems like a good idea. Maybe it'll blow something up, but it hasn't yet so I'll keep doing it.
yeah i noticed them SDA/SCL pins..shouldnt be too hard to access it...just hookup some arduino based thing..do an i2c address scan..then send various bits and see what happens... the service manual 'may' have some info, but i doubt it
Probably /possibly) the RGB input on the chip is designated for models with external RGB input like SCART. So they designed the OSD circuit to spare this input.
I find that using a leaf blower gets dust out of electronics best. Low pressure, high volume air doesn't disturb components but leaves dust nowhere to go but out.
RGB signals usually have sync on green. The video processor chip has sync separators on the rgb inputs but they may have to be activated. There maybe a signal setting that determines the source of the sync pulses.
Oh boy how many of those sony’a did I repair back in the day! Be sure to re-solder the raster IC on the Sony, other than that they tend to run and run. The VHS deck wasn’t too great as I remember. Boy, seeing this video I remember the smell of these tv’s, if it smells acidic, check the caps! (Literally smells like cat piss....)
That samsung is almost the right size for an awesome arcade screen! I put something of similar size into an upright arcade build I did a few years back. They're hard to see "actual" writing (selecting games), but they just do the part for arcade graphics.
That is a really huge difference, I like it! I wonder if there are any CRT TVs that came with a RGB input out of the factory. On today's lcd screens, you always have both kind of inputs.
@@EEVblog Exactly... They have. I connected my Atari 520ST to my TV's SCART input back in the day and voilà.. RGB input. As you said in the video it really makes a difference, you get a sharp image instead of the fuzzy one from the composite signal. I think we europeans were very fortunate to have such a simple way of getting RGB input to a TV.. And it was not only computers; DVD players also used SCART RGB input.
SCART was ahead of its time, in a single connector you had: - composite and audio input - RGB input - S-VIDEO input (even if not in the original standard) - composite and audio output (useful to back feed the VCR with the signal from the TV to record directly what you was watching or another input of the TV, or to feed the audio back to an amplifier) - automatic input switching, super useful, now you have to fiddle around with the remote, in the old days you inserted a VHS in the VCR and the TV automatically went to the appropriate input, some TV even waked from standby, super user friendly - data lines for passing teletex information to the TV, a thing that unfortunately with HDMI you don't have (come on! I still need to have a SCART connected between my Sky set top box to the TV because it's the only way to watch teletext, with HDMI you don't have it!) I agree that the connector itself was a problem, the cable was bulky and if you had the TV on those rotating bases it tended to unplug and bend the shell of the connector.
In Europe all brand TVs from that era already have an RGB input on the SCART connector... the only issue is that it needs a voltage on a pin to switch to it, and it has RGB+composite sync. When your computer outputs both RGB and CVBS at the same time you can use the CVBS as the sync signal.
Haze Anderson actually they can’t, this time one just happened to have a kludge IC preinstalled with an available datasheet, exposed pins and unfrozen firmware.
TVs were only 480i while you can easily find 1280x1024 CRT monitors pretty easily I believe they did make 16:9 TVs that could display 1080i in the mid 2000s but they were very short lived and quicky replaced by LCDs.
I'm assuming they want to bypass the contrast/sat/etc control for the on-screen display, they're using the fast commutate to disable the regular signal in the region where the OSD is showing but then just feeding it in black. You'll notice when you feed in a different signal that it *mixes* with the OSD instead of being underneath it.
You're right, but usually, the jungle chip has mechanisms to enable OSD on any input. Usually you tie a blanking pin to high, and then it enables that OSD to draw over the signal.
Likely bypassing the chip so that the OSD displays WHILE the regular signal displays behind it. Also seems they didn't want to enable regular RGB on this model likely due to cost reasons.
For SONY devices you can normally find perfect original service manuals in the Internet. With block diagrams and voltage comments. That would be my first approach to such a project.
Here in the US, I never had heard of "G-code"; but your context made it clear that it was the same as what was called "VCR Plus+" here. Wiki confirmed it was the same protocol but under different marketing... how silly. I never used it myself - it was for Boomers and WWII-era peeps who still hadn't learned how to navigate a menu. :P For our younger players, it was a set of numbers on the "TV Guide" (another anachronism, since it was printed weekly) by a show listing - oldsters could punch in a few numbers to set their VCR (imagine your DVR but you had to make sure you had a blank tape in there) to record a show for them. Savvy folks just entered the menu and punched in channel start time and duration/stop time. Oh how easy it is in comparison these days :D
I have a bit of experience with the PCjr. That was my first PC. From oiling the disk drive to figuring out what is interfering with the keyboard signal sometimes...LOL First version of Flight Sim and DOS 2.1-2.0 :)
Sony did a lot of weird stuff. With the PVM N series monitors, they all share the same bottom layer, but the top layer is drilled and populated in completely incompatible ways. I think that's what you're seeing with the Brazillian service manual - same IC number, but it's wired in differently and is in fact a different chip entirely. My PVM-14N1 has a daughterboard for the OSD (which has an unused RGB input, which I've made used ;)), but a PVM-14N5 has undrilled pads where I have a socket, but then has repurposed the socket I have that's labeled "AGING" but has 6 pins which it only needs 2 of and turned it into RGB + audio + sync. It's bonkers. All that said, something Sony does do is put red lines under components which will be modified or deleted in submodels. I notice there's a 0 ohm resistor and all of the RGB caps have a red line under it. They probably intend on you desoldering those components and jumping them to their proper locations. One of your connectors (under the output, which didn't even appear to be used) has RGB inputs not for the OSD. I bet those are supposed to connect to the non-ground-side of those capacitors, but there are missing or misrouted jumpers.
back in 1970 or so, had a "64k timex sinclair" did RF output to analog channel 3 or 4 on TV. Was very staticy and very poor video clarity. In Timex I found video input to "RF output can" then in analog TV found clean video output after all the RF stuff (before video amp to CRT) Found same voltage range, connected them together, and WOW CLEANEST VIDEO IMAGE I'D EVER SEEN. Real problem was the TV weighed 40 pounds in my basement, and I couldn't carry the wired assembly over to friend's house, so YOU and 664thousand subscribers around the world are the first to hear about my 50 year old great accomplishment..... It really worked great .... How's it feel being the first to know?
WARNING: Do NOT try and mod a TV that only has an RF antenna input, it is likely this is a "live chassis" TV and the internal circuitry is not isolated and is at main potential. This could kill you, or worse, blow up your vintage computer.
Death is a better fate then losing a valuable vintage computer
aw man. you just saved some morons, world needs less of those.
or worse 😂
Would you consider adjustment pots for size and phase?
Fear not... I shall check it with my tongue first! thhhhatth wokethhed outh thwell :-(
Dave, admit it!
You just did this to show off your extra long screwdriver!
I admit it. It's the star of the show now.
It was a mighty long shaft, but lacks girth.
@@TheBodgybrothers spoken like a true chode
This reminded me of when I was in electronics school. One of the instructors worked part time for a company that repaired arcade machines. They had a bunch of monitors that had some screen burn were still functional. He brought in enough for anyone that wanted to get a color monitor for their computer and learn a little in the process. The monitors accepted a CGA input but one of the sync signals was inverted. Too long ago to remember which one. So we built a little single transistor inverter on a piece of perf. board and were ready to go. Nothing too complex but it was a simple way for a couple of us cash starved students to get get a color monitor.
The component differences on the brazilian TV are most likely due how to bypass some brutal import taxes, you have to manufacture things in brazil itself on a tax free zone in manaus.
So they probably redesigned the tv to get a good cost/benefit while shopping locally and/or importing cheaper components.
Interesting!, thanks.
I think it was even worse in the 80's with the military dictators favoring their corrupt friends.
@@EEVblog also, Brazil uses PAL-M color(pretty much NTSC/525 lines but using PAL color), which may explain some of the differences.
And if memory serves well, Manaus is smack dab in the middle of the Amazon JUNGLE! (There we may have the reason for "jungle chip")
A Trinitron RGB monitor from the dumpster... a joy forever indeed.
Vastly superior, and still free!
For tv's yes, the computer monitor trinitrons faded rather fast.
@@omgwtfbbqstfu Even though they were the best CRTs out there even topping tob PVM/BVMs
any crt tbh
SCART connectors, providing RGB since 1982... In Europe.
Hi Dave, thanks for the in depth video. It helped me with modifying the same model trinitron. For a challenge, I utilised the existing front ports and installed a touch sensor to make it a switchless, no cut mod. Great video and everything was very well explained
I'm whatching this video over and over until my tv comes in the mail next week hahaha
Gotta love how we here in Europe is blessed with Scart-enabled televisions. RGB input right there. No mods needed.
You can shift the display left or right in software on the PCjr (or any PC with CGA): at the DOS prompt, type MODE 40,R or MODE 80,R for 40 or 80 columns of text, respectively, and to shift the screen right. You can repeat the command to shift the display farther. Use L instead of R to shift it left.
Works!, thanks.
VWestlife (backup account) your description on that channel states "bonus videos", but there are no videos at all on the videos page...? :P
I do not post any videos on this account. It's strictly for viewing and commenting, to keep my subscriptions feed from getting too clogged up on my main account. If you want to see more videos from me, subscribe to my vwest7ife channel.
@@kevinsvideodump It seems that 118 people disobeyed your instructions in the "About" page, and subscribed to the backup account.
@@und4287 it did say something about "bonus videos", so it must have been changed since. Anyway the main channel seems to have my main channel blocked and attempted contact elsewhere was persistently ignored and I have no idea why...
Many retro gamers and other CRT fans consider the Sony Trinitron stuff to be some of the best CRTs out there (e.g. if you want something to play old consoles like NES and SNES on, a Trinitron is a good pick)
Last year I bought a Trinitron PVM and modded a SNES to output an RGB signal. It was beautiful! Then they came out with the Super NT which recreates the hardware faithfully and outputs HDMI. When paired with a low-lag LCD, it's even better looking, and a whole lot less money/trouble!
"VHS Player" Technology Connections has been triggered. lol
I always call them "VHS players" now, in honor of TC
IT'S A VCR
Indeed, also CRT's don't have pixels!
LMFAOOOOO
I wanna hit like but it's at 69 right now.
I'll come back later and see if that's changed.
Hey! The Eight-Bit guy... Oh. Nevermind.
lol exactly what went through my mind. Gotta love both channels
I remember hanging on for literally decades to a block camera from a Panasonic VCR recorder "Home theater camera" wishing I can use the camera for an RC plane... now is totally gone! I couldn't keep it collecting dust for ever.. it was a really good camera, auto focus, and about 40X Zoom... not every one can actually do this things.. great video sir! Cheers from the land of Fire here in Florida USA
Sony stuff from the 80s and 90s had amazingly comprehensive service manuals and silkscreens on the boards. The silkscreen of my WM-D6 (first model, all through hole) contains a wealth of part descriptions, boxed off sections etc.
I was wondering how you were going to deal with the horizontal and vertical sync. Nice trick using the composite input for sync and hacking into the RGB!
Trinitron fan checking in. After I grabbed a few Sony GDM-FW900 monitors that the university had in the e-cycle pile, I've been singing their praises. (I had a standing "agreement" with the people running that building that since they had to pay per pound for e-cycle, if a few CRT monitors disappeared from the pile before they were picked up, no-one would say anything.) This was in 2009 for me, and at the time LCD panels were not very good. The technology market switched to them before they were ready. I didn't start using LCD displays until after 2015, when the technology had finally caught up. One thing I loved about it was it could handle a refresh rate above 100 Hz with good resolution.
The FW900 is still better than any LCD. Fight me.
Yes I remember most of the old mods used opto isolators to solve the issue with hot chassis sets
Way, way back went to a lot of trouble pulling an isolated 6MHz sound carrier feed out of my parents' TV to run through a sound IF strip feeding an induction loop I'd installed for my mother's hearing aid. Less than year later they replaced the set with one that had a SCART connector.
This is the first video I've seen that actually shows why you might want RGB. Switching like that is night and day! Now I'm gonna have to mod my dumpster TV...
When you think about it, if you only go back 100 - 150 years(which is very recent based on how long humans have been on this planet), man was practically living in the dark ages technology-wise. Most areas of the world didn't even have electricity in their homes going back less than 100 years. You have to wonder why it took so long to get where we are. A big mystery.
electronicsNmore not really. Farmers and women drive much of the tech sectors: timekeeping, oceanic navigation, GPS. Then you’ve got televised parodies featuring Gabor to throw doubt on this fact.
Trinitron monitor ftw...ive got one of the "flat screen" CRT trinitrons...its great for old school consoles/computers
you should be able to find a "service menu" on the sonys...allowing you to change all the settings (atleast there is on mine!)..you still need the manual to get calibration correct (i accidently reset mine and lost all of its settings, picture was all wonky and colors where wrong... left it off and unplugged for about a month and it musta loaded a backup and came good!)
Back in 2002, someone gave me a Sony KX-27PS1 studio monitor.
Unused, still in original packing crate!
Full service manual was included in the crate.
These were first built in 1982 I think, mine was a 1983 model from the date codes.
It was quite funny reading the instructions, as they referenced the SCART connector...
"For use with audio visual accessories which may be developed in the future"
The SCART (or "PERI-TV") connector was full feature RGB, plus there was also a 34-pin interface connector with RGB.
Paired with a Set-Top Box that had RGB output and a pair of shielded-magnet hifi speakers, this setup wiped the floor with anything else on the market for image quality, even 20 years on.
I had gone LCD for the computer, but regarding TV/DVD at the time there was only Plasma that could offer anything close to the Trinitron Profeel.
well done..a lot of gold nuggets in these older vids..
Most late 90s early 00s CRT TVs here in the UK support RGB signals, even RGB from digital boxes!! Usually had to be done by Scart lead
Yeah this fast commutation signal is actually present on the SCART connector and is usually necessary for RGB although some TVs don't care. It's used to force the RGB input over the composite input, in theory it can be used to do RGB overlays when having both inputs in sync.
Thank goodness for SCART and its' RGB inputs eh? :D
@@RaduTek svideo will only be on scart port 2 and beyond, and not all tvs wil have it anyway. Scart 1 will always have RGB wired.
you wanna know how i got this scart
I suppose that IC were made with SCART in mind. In some board for US market simply the socket and circiutry to connect it to the chip was omitted. I suppose that comparing an NTSC and PAL model could give a clue of what is missing.
I love my big screen CRT Magnavox TV. Reminds me of my Mom's big screen which she bought after saving up when she stopped smoking.
CRT has no lag when gaming. ;)
by big screen do you mean those huge rectangular tv they made right before the first flat screens? i saw someone cook food with one.
Why do i enjoy this caffeinated channel ? I bought EEVBlog multimeter. Made by Bryson. Happy !
A Brazilian model? Giggity.
Ukrainian models are prettier
@@pahom2 I don't know, they tend to have the same plastic chassis ;)
hey y'all cut this out plz, engineering culture is off-putting enough for women as it is
@@jaapweel1 Nobody said anything about women. Have you ever seen a soviet era television with real veneer case? Edit: Here, but do not sue for dropping your jaw. englishrussia.com/2007/09/06/old-soviet-tv-sets/ 😉
Gut out the VCR and use the cavity to build a small PC for classic computer/game emulation. Bonus points if you convert the tape slot into a ROM cartridge slot :)
Wish I had me one of them boom-box special Phillips screwdrivers at 4:18 show-off..
I think I'll use it in every video just for kicks. Looking for the same length in a #1 philips.
I now have screwdriver envy
@@EEVblog I bought these recently to get into a dead UPS at work:
amzn.to/2LyQWkO
#1 through #3 Philips, and two sizes of flat blades. Use them in a cordless screwdriver or a Picquic handle. They're not quite as long as in the video, but at 12", they should be long enough for most things.
In France (and all Europe I think) was mandatory to have at least one SCART plug (called Peritel in France). It was used for absolutely anything: VHS tape recorder, pay channels decoders, satellite or cable TV, computers or anything here. We was never using composite (or thru the SCART as it's also part or it). It was very easy to build electronic to send data to the TV... and without microcontroller 😉
Valéry MARZLIN Yes, that’s true. It was used in many European countries. I think it’s still mandatory on TVs sold in Sweden, they could have changed that in the last couple of years though.
@@ianbakke in France it's no more mandatory now as we have no more analog TV from 2011. Even the emitter I use to receive TV at home, the Eiffel tower 😉, is digital. Now HDMI is mandatory but you can still find some new TV set with 1 SCART but less and less.
'I didn't have time to build it to scale, or paint it' - nice one Dave!
Here in Europe, most of our TVs have RGB input already from the SCART socket. I'm guessing you don't/didn't have anything similar in Australia.
Scart briefly feature in South Africa in the '90s.
However, hardly anyone bothered with it because it's such a pita to work with.
No two scart sockets are the same. The scart spec does not require every circuit in the spec to be present. More than half the pins are dual function. hence, you need to decide what your scart's function will be before you build it.
For this same reason, most devices have two scart sockets wired for different functions.
I ran into these issues when trying to use a C=128D with 1084s monitor. In theory, you could have just made a cable, but in practice, the analogue vga pins in the scart aren't compatible with digital ega signals.
Some TV's had SCART here I think.
@@EEVblog tvs for the european market have scart inputs even today. and most of them at least have composite and rgb inputs wired up properly, with the composite input being used as sync in rgb mode. what IS rarely used are the Y/C (s-video) inputs, since these aren't properly standardized. when you get an old crt tv here or even many modern tvs, you usually dont have to do anything for rgb. only those with 2 scart connectors probably have RGB wired to just one of them.
All of this is because in france, the TV was required to have a SCART input BY LAW (and NO cinch connectors). and manufacturers of course sold the same tv in all of europe. RGB was heavily used here even up to the mid 2000s on external DVB-T receivers, DVD Players and so on. All of these had SCART outputs for this; many devices even ONLY had a scart output with everything being wired up to it internally.
@@niino4329 SCART is being removed here
Most new TVs only gave composite as an old standard
@@BavarianM I bought a 4K Philips TV about 2 years ago and it still has a Scart connector. Not sure if it it includes RGB as well, but I've never seen one that doesn't.
With the comparison you made, composite shows 16 different colors, RGB only shows the same 8 x 2.
The text is a lot more sharp on the RGB though.
27:25 btw.
@19:21: ... and there's our jungle chip (points to a chip surrounded by a jungle of caps) -- I guess you were right @10:20
If you found the right tv you wouldn't even need to do all this, rgb right at the back, maybe add a connector to it. But it would most likely be a huge tube tv which wouldn't be as convenient. I sported a flat screen, widescreen 1600 x 900 CRT monitor back in the day, when crt's were starting to be phased out. One thing that was cool about them was even if you had low resolution/ frame-rates, video's and games always looked sharp and smooth, because this was a high end monitor for it's time it had deep colors, great black composition. Wouldn't mind owning one again, for nostalgia points. ;)
So cool! That really brings me back, I had a PC XT clone with CGA adapter and boy did having such a limited color pallette stink while in the 4-color modes. Thanks for the video!
I remember old CRT's from my childhood. You could tell if the television was on based on the 15khz flyback noise.
Reason for the external RGB for OSD is to get a stable OSD, using the MCU triggered off the flyback to time the OPSD, irrespective of the input actually having a sync signal applied, and only triggering randomly on noise.
RGB is king on retro computers and consoles! It looks 10 times better. I'm amazed an old CRT TV can look so good with RGB, but of course this is a Trinitron. I wish we got RGB SCART here in the USA back then.
The term "Jungle" is used to indicate that the chip is designed for TROPICAL regions.
When I worked for a White/Brown goods importer, we supplied to hot countries refrigerators and freezers with "Jungle" compressors.
Not this time. Refers to complexity.
@@daverhodes382 lol, really, complexity, looks like most PCB's to me.
Question, have you tried playing about with the OSD input and see if you can overlay your own additional input over the main input.
Say you want one screen with two functions, if the OSD input can be driven, can't you push a signal like from a security video camera or one of those door cameras so you flick the OSD on to see who rang your door bell or automatically triggered by a door bell push.
Make for a an interesting hack video.
I had that same evolution of the trinitron line back in the late 90s.
I think you should be able to generate CSync by combining both HSync and VSync pins of the DB9 RGB socket in a way. Assuming all sync signals are positive, you can use logic gates, or simpler, only one NPN transistor configured as HSync to C, VSync to B through 1K resistor and you may get composite sync signal from E. Then you can connect it to the composite video input, since this signal only contains sync information (so there is no color/image signal) it will sync the RGB input without any interference. There should be no reason for an extra second video cable.
I think the 8-bit guy's video is a bit more consise, easy to follow. Luckily, I like Dave's Aussie accent, so its still a great watch!
Nice to see that manual. Same as i learned 20 years ago right before this Plasma and lcd tv displays hit the market. Greetings from Germany :)
Here in the UK "G-Code" was called Video+
I honestly thought it was the same everywhere :D
In Canada, it was also Video+
And we called it ShowView here in the Czech Republic. Bloody marketing!
Around here we called it something more akin to 'VideoPlus? I'm not trusting that crap, it never works, set the timer manually and set it fifteen minutes early to start, fifteen late to stop, you know how they are with ads and stupid football matches lasting longer than they're supposed to.'
In the USA, it was called VCR Plus+ . So many trade names!
@@HighTreason610 Always worked fine here / for me, was great as it recorded whole series, type in the numbers, and the whole lot is recorded automatically :D
I did this and it makes a tv so worth keeping. Not many more years these tvs are gonna get sought after and ppl gonna pay real good money for crt's
Unless you find a way to inject that sync with it's own connector, I'm thinking you want to rig up some sort of analogue delay on the color channels. That _should_ (hopefully) be enough to fix that "dancing screen" effect that you have on composite/component switch-over.
Except for some very high end sets, the picture shifting left always happened when switching to RGB mode on the SCART input.
It is simply due to the more direct signal path of the RGB signals not having the couple of microseconds propagation delay that the composite signal processing introduces.
The higher end sets had an H-Phase RGB mode offset control (not user accessible) to counteract this
The Samsung tube is the perfect shape for a MAME arcade machine.
The start-up buzz is usually the degauss coil and is usually hits and fades as thermister backs it off. The HV (anode) is the dust-attracting, static-y crackle.
You basically nabbed yourself a PVM for free plus a little work. Great job!
Love the old datasheets and application notes. So did Sony. 😉
Interesting that the back of the Sony appears to have a place to 'park' a standard UK 3 pin plug.
The "Number of Lines" is always going to be consistent. 525 NTSC or 625 PAL. What is going to change is the bandwidth. So, perhaps 2 Mhz of bandwidth might give you the quality of VHS tape, but as you go up, the detail increases. The top end broadcast NTSC or PAL cameras had the same number of scanlines, but the bandwidth could be 5 Mhz or more. The resolution across a scanline is measured in "line pairs", and that could go into the thousands with a high-end camera. A VHS tape might give you 200 or 300 line pairs.
Smaller Sony RGB monitors don't have full 525/625 lines, likely a function of CRT tube size.
I'll watch anything you pull out of the dumpster, not sure why but keep em comin.
From what I've seen, there's typically a diode somewhere between the Micom and the Fast Commutate/RGB blanking pin on the jungle, so what you can do is just leave the TV's circuit for that line intact and just add your own blanking signal straight in the pin on the chip (I just use the 5v from SCART), you'll get RGB when you have something driving the SCART, and standard inputs without, a switchless install.
Seems like a good idea. Maybe it'll blow something up, but it hasn't yet so I'll keep doing it.
that's a cool mod! I've seen some of them around, but thanks Dave for all the details! it feels good to understand :D
I'd love to know more about accessing the i2c bus on these.
yeah i noticed them SDA/SCL pins..shouldnt be too hard to access it...just hookup some arduino based thing..do an i2c address scan..then send various bits and see what happens... the service manual 'may' have some info, but i doubt it
Probably /possibly) the RGB input on the chip is designated for models with external RGB input like SCART. So they designed the OSD circuit to spare this input.
Oooh, that's complicated! In Germany the TV would have a SCART RGB input from factory....
SCART was a European thing Aus and US missed out on the handy Scart socket with RGB input
I find that using a leaf blower gets dust out of electronics best. Low pressure, high volume air doesn't disturb components but leaves dust nowhere to go but out.
The amount of pointing and touching that you did before you mentioned discharging the crt made me super nervous. lol
RGB signals usually have sync on green. The video processor chip has sync separators on the rgb inputs but they may have to be activated. There maybe a signal setting that determines the source of the sync pulses.
All I can say is thank goodness for RGB smart connections.
Oh boy how many of those sony’a did I repair back in the day! Be sure to re-solder the raster IC on the Sony, other than that they tend to run and run. The VHS deck wasn’t too great as I remember. Boy, seeing this video I remember the smell of these tv’s, if it smells acidic, check the caps! (Literally smells like cat piss....)
Wow! You just sent me 20+ years into the past :-)
Dave's now got a good little RGB monitor jobby. Let's get that A2000 going on it too.
That samsung is almost the right size for an awesome arcade screen!
I put something of similar size into an upright arcade build I did a few years back. They're hard to see "actual" writing (selecting games), but they just do the part for arcade graphics.
What a stream of great videos you've done lately Dave!
Thanks!
Good content, the editing is over the top. Your jumping the video all the time
That is a really huge difference, I like it!
I wonder if there are any CRT TVs that came with a RGB input out of the factory. On today's lcd screens, you always have both kind of inputs.
"Modern" SCART enabled TV's usually have RGB capability.
@@EEVblog Exactly... They have. I connected my Atari 520ST to my TV's SCART input back in the day and voilà.. RGB input. As you said in the video it really makes a difference, you get a sharp image instead of the fuzzy one from the composite signal. I think we europeans were very fortunate to have such a simple way of getting RGB input to a TV.. And it was not only computers; DVD players also used SCART RGB input.
L3P3 I believe that in the UK at one time TVs above a certain size had to have a SCART connector.
If what you’re seeing is D-sub then more likely it’s VGA not RGB/CGA input.
Being in EU I was a bit spoiled by the SCART input which already has RGB among other signals, it's a shame it didn't caught on globally
I was thinking what about the scart socket then remembered not all countries had the 21pin goodness
@@alltopnotch235 Amazing for its functions but worst connector ever I think
SCART was ahead of its time, in a single connector you had:
- composite and audio input
- RGB input
- S-VIDEO input (even if not in the original standard)
- composite and audio output (useful to back feed the VCR with the signal from the TV to record directly what you was watching or another input of the TV, or to feed the audio back to an amplifier)
- automatic input switching, super useful, now you have to fiddle around with the remote, in the old days you inserted a VHS in the VCR and the TV automatically went to the appropriate input, some TV even waked from standby, super user friendly
- data lines for passing teletex information to the TV, a thing that unfortunately with HDMI you don't have (come on! I still need to have a SCART connected between my Sky set top box to the TV because it's the only way to watch teletext, with HDMI you don't have it!)
I agree that the connector itself was a problem, the cable was bulky and if you had the TV on those rotating bases it tended to unplug and bend the shell of the connector.
@massimo no better feeling than reaching around a 32" CRT and blindly plugging in a scart lead
Wait...SCART wasn't/isn't a thing globally? TIL
In Europe all brand TVs from that era already have an RGB input on the SCART connector... the only issue is that it needs a voltage on a pin to switch to it, and it has RGB+composite sync.
When your computer outputs both RGB and CVBS at the same time you can use the CVBS as the sync signal.
I always suspected that TVs and monitors could do each other's task .... thanks for this ultra instruction vid. :)
Haze Anderson actually they can’t, this time one just happened to have a kludge IC preinstalled with an available datasheet, exposed pins and unfrozen firmware.
Remember the "HD ready" TVs that were just big computer monitors?
TVs were only 480i while you can easily find 1280x1024 CRT monitors pretty easily
I believe they did make 16:9 TVs that could display 1080i in the mid 2000s but they were very short lived and quicky replaced by LCDs.
I'm assuming they want to bypass the contrast/sat/etc control for the on-screen display, they're using the fast commutate to disable the regular signal in the region where the OSD is showing but then just feeding it in black. You'll notice when you feed in a different signal that it *mixes* with the OSD instead of being underneath it.
I had a 19" flat trinitron back in the day, I'm sorry I ever got rid of it. In retrospect it's still the best graphic design monitor I've ever owned.
I would assume that the OSD is done the way it is because it needs to be able to display stuff no matter what input is selected?
You're right, but usually, the jungle chip has mechanisms to enable OSD on any input. Usually you tie a blanking pin to high, and then it enables that OSD to draw over the signal.
Likely bypassing the chip so that the OSD displays WHILE the regular signal displays behind it. Also seems they didn't want to enable regular RGB on this model likely due to cost reasons.
Awesome lesson! I'd love to see you repair some Sony PVMs ... I have a few with minor problems so I'd love to be able to repair them.
Interesting conversion.
I like that the VCR does PAL and NTSC. Wish I could find one like that in NTSC-land.
I use a Sony CRT studio monitor with built in BNC RGB fo a computer monitor for years!
For SONY devices you can normally find perfect original service manuals in the Internet. With block diagrams and voltage comments. That would be my first approach to such a project.
Here in the US, I never had heard of "G-code"; but your context made it clear that it was the same as what was called "VCR Plus+" here. Wiki confirmed it was the same protocol but under different marketing... how silly. I never used it myself - it was for Boomers and WWII-era peeps who still hadn't learned how to navigate a menu. :P
For our younger players, it was a set of numbers on the "TV Guide" (another anachronism, since it was printed weekly) by a show listing - oldsters could punch in a few numbers to set their VCR (imagine your DVR but you had to make sure you had a blank tape in there) to record a show for them. Savvy folks just entered the menu and punched in channel start time and duration/stop time. Oh how easy it is in comparison these days :D
Nice! I've got an old 14" flat screen Trinitron (KV-BM142M10) that I now have a use for. Cheers!
repaired those things for years !
came over from Tunderf00t. stayed for the fascinating vid. :)
I have a bit of experience with the PCjr. That was my first PC. From oiling the disk drive to figuring out what is interfering with the keyboard signal sometimes...LOL
First version of Flight Sim and DOS 2.1-2.0 :)
"this device contains 6245 active transistors" wow they're proud of that eh
Coba Weel This used to be standard data sheet info. Still is for stuff like CPUs that contain lots of week low voltage transistors.
Us Trinitron fanboys will claim they are both rubbish :D :D :D
Sony did a lot of weird stuff. With the PVM N series monitors, they all share the same bottom layer, but the top layer is drilled and populated in completely incompatible ways. I think that's what you're seeing with the Brazillian service manual - same IC number, but it's wired in differently and is in fact a different chip entirely. My PVM-14N1 has a daughterboard for the OSD (which has an unused RGB input, which I've made used ;)), but a PVM-14N5 has undrilled pads where I have a socket, but then has repurposed the socket I have that's labeled "AGING" but has 6 pins which it only needs 2 of and turned it into RGB + audio + sync. It's bonkers.
All that said, something Sony does do is put red lines under components which will be modified or deleted in submodels. I notice there's a 0 ohm resistor and all of the RGB caps have a red line under it. They probably intend on you desoldering those components and jumping them to their proper locations. One of your connectors (under the output, which didn't even appear to be used) has RGB inputs not for the OSD. I bet those are supposed to connect to the non-ground-side of those capacitors, but there are missing or misrouted jumpers.
I need to find one of these dumpsters!
Would be interesting to see a diagram of CRT drivers bleed time as a function of a profit of CRT manufacturers in time.
Thanks for helping @thunderfoot got me as a subscriber and follower! cheers m8!
The moment I thought about 8 bit guy, you mentioned him. What a coincidence.
Step one: install an oscillator and some piezo speakers to generate a louder hissing noise than regular cvt TVs make.
Love those Trinitrons
I still use a CRT as main television at home but apart from that haven’t seen one in ages. I wish I had some for testing purposes
Finally, some relevant videos!
back in 1970 or so, had a "64k timex sinclair" did RF output to analog channel 3 or 4 on TV. Was very staticy and very poor video clarity. In Timex I found video input to "RF output can" then in analog TV found clean video output after all the RF stuff (before video amp to CRT) Found same voltage range, connected them together, and WOW CLEANEST VIDEO IMAGE I'D EVER SEEN. Real problem was the TV weighed 40 pounds in my basement, and I couldn't carry the wired assembly over to friend's house, so YOU and 664thousand subscribers around the world are the first to hear about my 50 year old great accomplishment..... It really worked great .... How's it feel being the first to know?