Why would you want this? I used to work at RCA. You do NOT want to be using a CRT today. It's a particle accelerator. You have a very real refresh rate on it, which even if you can't see, trust me, your brain can. This is why we used to get headaches staring at these things. Trinitron was a cost reduction process in creating the screen, it works great for monitors because you can align it up with pixels, but it's not an improvement over picture quality. We're engineers, what we've replaced and obsoleted WAS inferior. CRTs are a terrible technology, but given no memory storage, the inability to do transparent circuit layout, etc, it made a blurry image possible. It was fine, for 1980. Consider where we are today. In 2000 years, image and video fidelity will NOT be better than what we have today. It might be different, maybe 70 Hz, maybe 50, maybe 700, but we won't have a significant difference in quality. Whatever civilization is there, will be able to see what our life was like. You REALLY want to go back to CRTs and videotapes?
@@fuzzywzhe The idea is to use them with older computers like Apple IIGS or Amiga. Screens made for these units are getting rare and expensive, this is an inexpensive way to get decent video quality on them. Yeah you can use LCD screens, but they simply don't look right.
@@danaeckel5523 You just don't want to use a CRT at all. You really don't even want to use an old computer. A rasbperry pi (when they are available) cost $35. With a 128 GB SD card, you can easily simulate (at the instruction level) an Amiga or C=64. That will use, at maximum 20 watts, including the screen. You can put any filter you want on the display. I simply don't understand the obsession with old hardware. They were space heaters, they are RF pollutants as well. The CRTs caused eye strain, they were terribly inefficient, why would you want to go back to that? I remember seeing full motion video on an Amiga back in the late 1980's. I saw the first attempts at raytracing. The frustration of working with these early, primitive machines - what's the point? I can render an old style computer monitor from 1990 on a 4K television. Why do anything with the old systems? Nobody can answer that. It was cutting edge technology at the time, but why bother with it? Babbage machines are an interesting machine, however, you wouldn't want to use one in lieu of a calculator or even a phone - you don't even want to use a calculator today.
@@PG-gs5vb I'm an engineer. It's not that I don't appreciate what was created before me, or even stuff I worked on, it's that we have superior solutions to old problems. I used to do optimization with real time operating systems to make, frankly, awful hardware work within limitations by converting to assembly. That job is entirely obsolete, a typical optimizer can do a better job than I can. We fixed SO MANY problems. I could understand this if the previous solutions used less power, or were better in SOME way, but they aren't. I can run a simulator of an Amiga in a web-browser, and not only does it use less power, it's faster than the machine I had 35 years ago. There's NO WAY that earlier solutions are superior. Building blocks from these old systems still exist, but there's no reason to use the old hardware. Understand where we're at. You can store more books than you can read in a lifetime on a $12 SD Card. It DEMOLISHES the Library of Alexandria, you can probably have the entire NYC library system on such device, and you can lose it between your couch cushions. Your PHONE can do nuclear bomb simulation. You can EASILY handle the emails and communications of 1000 people on it. We are at the point a TOY machine can handle the communication and storage needs of a company. Welcome to the future dude. You ask me why I don't like retro-computing, that's not the case. Why don't you like modernity? I'm not kidding, every book you've ever read, ever will read, every book everybody know has read, fits on an $11 device. You can literally carry around the knowledge of civilization in your pocket.
Nice mod. When making holes in plastics, I draw/trace out the hole, drill a starter hole and then file it by hand with small diamond files. I find the dremel is too fast and harsh for plastics. The file takes longer but the end result is always smarter and worth the extra time. You also have the advantage of test-fitting and filing a bit more.
Came here to say almost this, one tip is to make starter/pilot holes with solder-iron to all 4 corners, then drill them with little bit larger like 4mm (5/32inch)
I have had luck making precise holes in plastic by drilling a starter hole and then use a dremel with a "grout cleaning bit" running at a low/medium speed. This bit resembles a round file and as long as you keep the speed low enough, it won't melt the plastic but you retain decent control over the material carved off the edge. If the setup allows it, attach a plunge router head over the end of the dremel to give you something to lean against and keep the tip from running.
@@petergriffin6126 Thanks, good tip Peter. Now here's a _tip_ tip for you. Melting plastic instantly contaminates and eventually ruins soldering iron tips! I always change to a dedicated spare sacrificial tip to isolate that damage. I purchased an inexpensive 240 vac "wood burner" iron to use on 120 vac exclusively for poking holes in plastic, but never got around to see if that works. It might require a lose Aluminum foil wrap to get temp up a bit. IDK. In any case, I don't think those (Palestine, OH-like) fumes are healthy for you or your liver, so be careful.
Ym is actually a "Picture Mute" which dims the picture by -6dB, regardless of if its from the Y/C or RGB inputs. This can be used as part of a sleep function to dim the picture as a both a warning that the sleep timer is about to expire, and as a softer way of turning off as to not wake the user.
I wonder if it could be used to 'tame' the extra 'hot' output from the Atari, without having to adjust the levels in the service menu? Add a second switch to the back...
The chip seems to be made for JP21 specifications, which has RGB 0.7 Vp-p, sync 1 ohm p-p, Ys 1V+ and Ym 1V H (the exact same values in the sheet). Ym in that specification is described as "Switches RGB to half-brightness, for video overlay."
yay! I'm hopefully doing an RGB mod to a Trinitron in the next month or so, and it's great to see another nice example of how to use the schematic and datasheets to determine what components are needed to get the desired output!
A good thing about SCART (and JP-21, a copy of SCART with a different pinout) is that you can skip the switch in these mods, since they carry the 1V signal for the blanking on pin 16. For retro computers, you can feed 5V into the cable through a simple circuit to draw it down to within specification.
The reason you had to turn the RGBP setting down so much is because your circuit is missing 75 ohm termination resistors to ground on the analog RGB lines. Those are needed to set the correct 0.7 Vp-p signal levels that the jungle IC is expecting. And while it probably doesn't matter so much for such a small, low-resolution set, having the proper termination also helps to reduce reflection artifacts.
I thought about adding 75 ohm to ground -- I may do that in the future as it can easily be added it to the PCB. The RGBP being set to about 50 of the range doesn't seem like a problem though. There would be no reason to want this setting to have to run at the maximum all the time.
@@CollinBaillie yes video is normalised at 75 ohms , the reistor in parallel with the circuit will terminate the line for the computer at 75 just like a regular monitor does
In the UK, once scart became standard from the early 90's, pretty much every tv had RGB as standard. My first Sony Trintitron 14” was in 1992 and that had RGB Scart and looked superb in our AMIGA 600.
But having a scart input does not mean RGB will be working as it may be that only composite input is implemented. But you are right that normally, having a scart plug almost guarantees RGB compatibility.
@@eldontyrellcorp All serious brands had RGB input. Because it was mandatory for the French market. I've yet to come across a TV that doesn't do RGB. What is hit-and-miss is 60Hz support. That became more common in the nineties.
Back in the heyday of the Sega Genesis, I had a Sony Trinitron TV like that. Being in Europe, I was able to get an RGB SCART cable for it, and was really impressed with the clarity and detail of the picture; those Trinitron sets were excellent for gaming!
lcd tv's always have been awful to game on with the slow response rate ,resolution doesn't match your console, input lag. yucky shiny black plastic. even a pc gaming led monitor is better than a hd tv it still has pixel trailing.
The theory & design section of this video is worth any price of admission. Thank you, Adrian, for sharing this stuff with us freely. Greenlee, Klein, Thomas & Betts, and other toolmakers offer a set of knockout punches for DB-9 and DB-25 (some makers even include the Centronics punch...) I'm not exactly sure how these would work on plastics, but they make a really neat and correctly shaped opening for these connectors in metal...
Your CRT warning always reminds me of the "work experience" placement I did back in the mid 80s when I was about 14; it was a small local electronics firm that did computer repairs including servicing monitors, and one day I was given vague instructions on how to remove a CRT from something and then left with pretty much no supervision. The shock I got pulling the anode out taught me a lesson I will never forget! On a less potentially fatal note, America really got stiffed by missing out on SCART; I have a pretty bargain basement (Bush, a name that rarely inspired confidence) 14" CRT TV from around the same era and it's got composite, S-Video, and RGB right out of the box, and I recently discovered that while it doesn't support NTSC it's perfectly happy running at 60Hz (most likely by accident rather than by design) so I can use stuff from the US/Japan as long as it has an RGB output.
@Gareth Fairclough you probably grew up with older TVs around you, RF only sets were common in the mid 80s and I've seen people using the same TV for like 25 years. My family only upgraded to an LCD TV in 2013, we went from a 90s 32" CRT to a 50" LCD and the size difference was hard to get used to.
@garethfairclough8715 They were only common in tvs made from early 90's onwards and since they cost so much new back then people bought used sets, I did see it on a tv around 1994 but knew nothing that used it, I did get a Saturn in 1997 but had to plug it into a video recorder I had which had Scart and then that to tv via RF, when I got some money from relatives in 1999 I bought a new tv that had scart on it and never went back, component I only began seeing around 2003 when consoles like the PS2 supported it.
I bought a set very similar to this one (it's either the one after or before) at an estate sale down the street. They had two, so I plugged them in, they both looked great showing static (no obvious burn in), and the one was super clean and clearly barely used. Been meaning to do this for a while now, so it's great that you showed the steps. My friend gave birth a few months back, and I plan on coming up to see her when the kid is old enough to play video games and bring an NES! It'll be interesting to see their reaction. The portability of it is great, since I can easily take it in the car, and still be able to play light gun games!
I'm glad you're always assertive about CRT safety warnings. It's absolutely worth saying. I didn't know about old 80s CRTs in North America being dangerous to add input mods to. I wouldn't be caught dead opening a CRT, too terrified of electricity as-is. CRTs are the equivalent of getting struck by lightning in my mind.
@@chitlitlah Somewhat true for the US, with 110V only being dangerous in conjunction with moisture, like in a bathroom, which also seems to be the only place where you'll find GFCI/RCDs in the US. Unfortunately, it's a lot more than just 110V inside a TV.
tbf it's not that dangerous, just dont stick your hand in random places with the set on, remember to discharge it before working on it (with a simple screw driver and a cable to ground). also the service manual is your friend, with it you can identify high voltage areas, ie flyback and the psu. also i wear some rubber gloves when i have to touch things around the tube or high voltage areas, say the flyback or convergence rings.
One note about D1 diode, it has a voltage drop which can vary between diode type, would be beneficial to measure voltage after the diode when adjusting potentiometer
It's so cute! Tiny CRTs are honestly kind of useless for most applications, but they are absolutely adorable and worth having around just for the aesthetic if you've got the space.
Yes, the values in the datasheet are voltage _thresholds_ , not target voltages. VIH of 1.0V means the voltage input on that pin needs to be _minimum_ of 1.0V to be considered logic 'high', and conversely, a VIL of 0.4V means it needs to be _maximum_ of 0.4V to be considered logic 'low'.
Its so nice to have rgb on pretty much entry level CRT TVs here in Europe. Can litterally walk into the next thrift store which still has some CRTs, check for a scart connector, and 9 out of 10 will do RGB on it. Something I used a lot with my Amiga 500 at the time, on a bigger Sony trinitron, and still use for my C128, with a small adapter which lets me switch between the 2 outputs of that machine, and uses the signalling on scart to tell the TV which input to use. (and does 4 bit passive rgbi to analog rgb 'conversion')
I had a 36" Widescreen Trinitron years ago. Had to get rid of it because of space. It weighed 96kg or 210 lbs! I now have a 28" Bang & Olufsen 4:3 CRT in my garage.
Great project presented very clearly and thoroughly! I always feel like I've learned a ton after watching your videos. Now to keep my eyes open for a Sony set :)
I have the industrial version of the 9 inch SONY RGB monitor, CPD-9000. It really has an amazing picture with rich saturation. I've had this set for over 25 years, and for some reason the RGB connector didn't work as described, so I hard wired a DB-9 to the set and it worked! That set hadn't been used for probably 30 years, it was surplused in the 90's and never used until a few years ago.
Sitting here in Europe watching something that is completely unnecessary yet still somehow captivating! The pairing of that cute lil' 9" CRT with the dinky A600 was perfect!
What a lovely job. The way you talk through the mod is super educational and easy to follow. I’m sure plenty of people will come up with further tweaks but I love your spirit of just getting things working. Thanks
About the 1084 flyback, there actually was a commodore service bulletin about flybacks in monitors manufactured in a specific date range going bad, and these should always be replaced by service centers if they get one of the affected monitors in. Probably the many units failing nowadays are those that were affected by this problem.
Oh that's interesting. Luckily a company is making new replacement ones today -- although they aren't as good quality and supper voltage sag, leading to geometry issues.
Adrian, I was first attracted to your channel from the tv repairs but fell in love with the computers I used as a kid. You're knowledge is overwhelming and we appreciate it!
To get the right size hole for the connector, I'd be tempted to dismantle one of the male DE9s, remove the pins and just keep the outer shell metal portion, then hold it in pliers and heat it up with a hot air gun or a flame, and gently push it into the plastic - it should 'cookie cutter' exactly the right size hole - you'd have to practice a bit, and maybe do it outside or somewhere well ventilated if it's giving off fumes, but if you don't want to go all that far, just pushing it in a little and then using that smooth edge as a guide for a dremel tool would work. Thanks for these videos, they're always entertaining and informative, I learn something new every time 😃
I should really grab some old junk plastic and give that a try. I bet if I had looked, I could have found some printable templates online to help with the cutting. :-)
I have a couple of 10" Semp Toshiba TVs that are just like that Trinitron, and also have the 12v input option. The quality of the image from the composite input is astoundingly good, very clear.
excellent video learned a lot! those resistor and capacitor filters are used in many areas including memory modules etc. i think that many OEM make a PCB with all the features and then remove the components for the lower end models. i noticed amiga pcb do this a lot. it would be fun to watch a video where the missing components were added back to the system and functionality was returned. keep up the good work and thanks!
the KV9PT60 was afavorite on movie sets because it could be powered by 12V, you could add a video out (most of the times the pc board already had all the pads to solder the component for that) the tuner is on a daughter board and we coiuld tap on that board to add a tuner out independant of the video out and we could also slow them down to a 24 fps scan rate ideal for onscreen video playback, you could see them in many movie scenes because of that feature alone
@@adriansdigitalbasement we were using a frame rate converter made for the movie industry by Schindler, since in film we are using 24 fps the converter would make a NTSC 48i signal., I remember that in the service mode we were playing with another menu V-something (V sweep ???) and we would bring the value to a higher number until we have a picture scroll lock , sometimes when the camera was HD instead of film we had to shoot at 23.98 and set the schindler and tv for that rate, when I was a technician for Willam F White in Canada , who was the largest movie equipement rental house back then, I remember modifying at least 15 KV9 for tuner out (by adding a small homemade board video amp) , soldering the SMT parts that were not on the main board to get a video out too (alll the parts around Q406 that you show in the service manual around 25 minutes) , we were rigging them like this: addon tuner out to an external recorder , recorder out to video in , we tuned the tv to get the NTSC wireless sender of the film cameras and by pushing the input button we could switch between live and recorder for playback on the tv and instant playback
Similar in Australia as well regarding Market driven CRT TVs from Asia (Tho PAL) . RF only originally, then with later VCRs RF and Composite (mid 80's), then with higher end / later VCRs S-Video, then with DVDs S-Video and Component. Great video Adrian.
Super handy size! Great mod.. I’d love rgb on my 1998 Samsung 19”.. I’m just not confident enough around the high voltage yet. Great vid as always, Adrian.
Sad part about Scart & RGB is, I never used it until the past few years when I learned about RGB over Scart, sure I used Scart to connect stuff up back before HDMI took over, but never even knew about it having RGB capabilities until the vids on RGB-modding cropped up (E.G. 8-Bit Guy's Samsung TV, and your own trash-picked (RCA?) one) and the Scart crowd went smugmode over it, first thing I realised I could use was my PS1 which I didn't realise I already had an RGB cable for... :P
It is interesting that the RGB inputs are AC coupled to the jungle IC with a series RC, but what is missing is the input 75 ohm termination resistors. The cables are so short reflections are probably not an issue, however if the termination resistors were added it would knock the video down by 50% and the contrast control would probably not have to be set at its limit. As far as protection I would also add the Zener as was shown in the Sony monitor schematic, bringing CMOS pins to external connectors without protection is probably not a good idea.
I was searching for the answer if Sony KV-14T1D Workbench image would be as sharp as Commodore 1084S and somehow stumbled upon this conversion mod. Cool stuff 😳
We had the same 9" Sony that we bought for the kids (3) on a cross country road trip. It was used for a N64 and VCR/DVD combo player to keep them entertained. I should say that it is still working today!
Monitor mods are fairly interesting and giving a new purpose/use case for a CRT is a nice way to reuse the older tech and not have it clutter our landfills or whatever else they do to them in the end. This screen has a few more years of usefulness added to it. ☺
If you have a TV with component video inputs, a less invasive means of getting RGB on it is with an SCART RGB-Component adapter. RetroTink makes the one I use. I really like it because it includes stereo audio breakouts, and unlike some of the cheaper ones on Amazon, you don't have to tweak a bunch of pots to get the picture dialed in right. There are tons of pre-made SCART RGB cables for game consoles and computers, too.
Hi Adrian, at 32:23 you asked for suggestions for how to cut a hole for the DB9 connector. I second the suggestion for using a Nibbling Tool. I got mine at a Radio Shack many years ago and it has worked great for me on aluminum and plastic. Nice tool to have in your toolbox!
I'm always amazed to see that a lot of CRT TVs already has RGB of course with a bit of modification and a bit of electronic knowledge you can make a great monitor for many computers and even consoles that also has RGB for example the Super Nintendo it is a great example and most thought that the S-Video is the top of the line but no it also has RGB and I seen pictures on the online and they look gorgeous in my opinion absolutely lovely.
It was probably a cost saving measure, as every TV I owned, unless they were RF only, would have at least one RGB SCART socket, and have never seen a TV with composite input, though you could plug in composite into the SCART socket with an adapter.
I guess by cost reducing. European TV should not have so different circuitry. In regards of SNES, it's funny how the N64 has worse tv signals than its predecessor.
My 1084 has a round DIN6 for analog RGB in. A panel mount hole for that would've been much easier lol I actually have a Sony KVM with only composite in, I plan to add an RGBA input to it. These videos are very helpful!
For the sync, I can confirm: The Oric Atmos has a single sync pin which merges HSync and VSync (they have different amplitudes so they can be dinstinguished) signals, and my 1084 monitor had zero problem with the Oric, with a rock solid picture and vibrant colors (more or less bright depending if I enabled the TTL button or not)
It was great that in Europe most quality TVs from early 90s onwards supported RGB via a SCART connector. I have 2 Trinitron CRTs from the 90s and they both have s-video which is great to have as well.
I always tried to avoid composite wherever possible. Being in Europe (UK) I was lucky enough to have a BBC micro along with a Microvitec Cub RGB monitor and it was so VERY much better than composite. I had a 14" Trinitron a few years later and it worked very nicely via RGB with my Atari ST via scart although I do remember having to combine the syncs with a diode/capacitor hack.
In the US in the 1980s it was pretty much a choice between an RF-only home television, or a composite/RGB monitor. Many people opted for the former as a cost-saving approach, especially for 8- and even 16-bit consoles. I think a lot of people even opted to buy a smaller secondary RF-only TV for 8-bit computer use because of the versatility, although when VCRs got cheaper you could use their RF tuners and composite outputs to effectively turn a monitor into a TV (my brother and I did this in the 1990s with an old green monochrome composite monitor, which makes me very familiar with color NTSC dot crawl lol).
It was always a massive bugbear of mine whenever I'd buy a new games console and they always packed in those awful composite cables with a SCART adapter. Made for a really ugly picture. I could understand if they shipped with RF(they were aiming for the lowest common denominator) but even my X-Box 360 had those crappy things packed in. It almost felt like a con, 'cause an actual SCART cable would cost at least an extra 20 quid. I've never even seen a TV with composite in, not counting plugging it in via SCART adapter.
They had those cub monitors at our middle school for the BBC micro. They all gave you a terrible shock if you were touching the screen when switching it off!
@@fattomandeibu Composite, also known as RCA. I bet you know what the A stands for. Being from Canada, we also got stuck with that S***! Conversely, I've only ever seen scart once in person -- my friend's family brought their electronics and game consoles back from Germany with them, when they moved back to Canada. At least things started getting component here eventually before HDMI finally took over.
@@HunterZBNS Over here in England, most cheap TVs in the '80s were RF only, too, but composite(which compared to RGB looks horrible) was pretty rare. The only time I ever seen it was when I bought a game console prior to HDMI(even my X-Box 360 from, I think 2008), which would come with composite cables with RGB adapter(you still got the crappy picture) and it annoyed me every time. As I said before, it was almost like they were conning you, I have so many of those dumb adapters, but it's what they packed, and then charged you about US$30-40 for a proper RGB cable.
Note on the Ys signal - the data sheet indicated that this is a logic level input... Vih (min) means that the minimum voltage to be recognised as a logic high is 1V. The maximum voltage allowed would be equal to Vcc. It would have been enough to simply put 9V on the pin to give it a logic 1. A neat way to do this would be to tie the Ys pin high using e.g. 10K to Vcc, and then use your switch to pull it to ground. You would get the same toggle effect with only two wires to the switch :) For the sync signal, it's very typical to use a 330 ohm resistor in Amiga SCART cables, to pad down the TTL sync level to the 1V p-p signal that SCART expects. The resistor alone is enough because the composite sync input on SCART is terminated by 75 ohms. So you could probably omit the pot and simply have 330 ohms plus your diode (a 1n4148 would be plenty). You may not even need the diode because there would be no path to ground to worry about.
The RGB switching signal is used to blank the video to guarantee a blank video as the other switching signal would enable the information system display. The micro would have to clear memory which takes up micro cycles and code in a very small memory. If you have a pin available then you can save a lot of code by just toggling a pin. We forget we have so much memory available to us which was not available back over 20 years ago.
15:00 Quick note on doing the RGB mod this way. The voltage level here is typical TTL 5v whereas the RGB signal level coming in might be 0.1v-1.0v so an amplifier and corresponding sync circuitry is needed.
Indeed -- and in the past, I had a trashpicked TV which I hooked an arduino up to take full control of the TV via I2C. I was able to do some fun things with it on the fly. I thought about trying it with this TV, but interesting is it has 3 or was it 4 I2C busses on it -- instead of one shared bus. Not sure why Sony did it that way.
Nice mod :) - Not to be nitpicking, but the connector is named DE-9. E is the shell size. A DB-9 would be B width (25 pins connector) and have only 9 pins. It doesn't exist :D
It's a shame people always say if you're not experienced working on CRT monitors, don't work on CRT monitors. I get that they do it because of liability, but everyone has to start somewhere, and how are you ever going to get experienced if everyone tells you not to even try? I wish CRT videos on youtube would provide safety tips and educate people on how to work on CRTs safely instead of telling people to not even try. Its like telling people that if they've never driven a car before to not even try because one wrong move could get them killed on the road.
Right? As he was saying that, I was thinking "how about you think about what you're saying, Adrian, I know you don't actually agree with that". The irony is that he understated the danger (if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it... Guess what, plenty of people will erroneously think they know what they're doing).
BTW in the service mode menu Vsize could be ajusted and if I remember correctly a value around 28 29 will bring the image in a letter box format while the OSD in green stays in top corner
WoW this reminds me of a mod I did to a crt set for an Amstrad 464 back in the 80's. Most sets had inputs to the video for an Teletext module. You could just hook up the rgb sync from the video connector on the Amstrad to the rgb input for the Teletext. Biut my lads still remember playing games on a 26" tv not the norm in the 80's.😊😊
I have a KV-20S10 which has a similar if not the same jungle chip with a spare analog RGB input. As far as RGB mods go, this seems like a fairly trivial one to do. Mine unfortunately doesn't have that nice back plate so when I did my S-Video mod, I had to leave some extra length so I can disconnect it before fully pulling the back off. I have half a mind to use a DB-9 connector when I eventually get around to doing an RGB mod instead of the usual SCART just because space is at a premium already back there.
RGB SCART was the way I played Resident Evil 2 on my PS1 back in the day! (I modded the PS1 and imported RE2) (also I was lucky my TV could handle 60hz with a vsync tweak) 18:29 I remember having to take apart SCART cables to check for those capacitors as a lot of SCART cables said they were RGB but were not connected!
In Europe, all those Sony TVs come with RGB input via SCART by default. No mod needed. Also, later models like shown in this video, including 50 and 60Hz (PAL/NTSC) output. It’s weird for me know that in US most of TVs rarely included this and you need to mod TVs to get something that in EU was an standard.
It is interesting how all later TVs in Europe supported NTSC. This must have been dictated by market demand so people could play back imported media or use imported hardware, but it was never the reverse.
@@adriansdigitalbasement I remember NTSC compatibility being advertised almost as an aspirational/glamour feature of sets, because it implied you'd been to the USA on holiday, or maybe your second home, and either bought media there, or possibly recorded home videos on a US spec camcorder. I also got the idea it was aimed at people who wanted to watch "Directors cut" editions of movies that were only ever released on NTSC VHS or LaserDisc. Of course, if Sony can make one chip for both markets, that saves money, and if they can sell "NTSC compatibility" as a premium feature for something the universal chipset can already do, even better!
@@adriansdigitalbasement what's odd is that, in the UK at least, I never knew anyone have NTSC equipment. wonder if it was just that they added PAL to the NTSC chip and it was more effort to remove the ntsc functionality.
I remember we also had "PAL-60" available on lots of TVs, particularly in the late 90s and early 00s. This was even, IIRC, supported on the original Xbox, so you'd get the higher resolution of PAL combined with the higher refresh rate of NTSC for the best of both worlds.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Market demand in Europe with free trade across borders did require that TVs did support both PAL and SECAM. 60Hz PAL did exist in Brasil. If you both PAL and SECAM, and do both 50Hz and 60Hz then adding NTSC is not a big deal either. The feature wasn't useless after all. However it only happen when the chips were sufficiently integrated that it didn't require a lot of additional components.
In Europe TV from the 80s got Scart inputs with seperate RGB and stereo audio in/out -puts. A control signal to when switching on the VCR it switched to te Scart input. Later the control signal was used to detect a 16/9 picture.
for the hole above the DB15 plug, you can put some superglue and sprinkle baking soda on it, and it will form a dense white material that you can build up by repeating this to build up layers and it will fill in that hole. In the arcade scene, we make boxes called Superguns that are designed to take RGB signals from arcade game PCBs from dozens of manufacturers, all with different ideas of what a "proper" RGB signal should be, so we just put variable resistors on the RGB signals so we can fine-tune the brightness on each PCB. In your case, it might be a good idea to make a box with two DB15 plugs on it and some variable resistors to adjust the RGB brightness, and maybe a method of reducing the voltage on the sync input in case you hook up something like a console that uses TTL Sync, which might damage the Jungle IC. A 330-450 ohm resistor should do the trick.
Regarding the brightness of the Atari ST, it's actually different between the STF and the STE. When Atari expanded the Shifter from 512 to 4096 colors they apparently recalibrated the output so the maximum white of the STE is brighter and the maximum white of the STF.
very cool. i recently modded a jvc 14 inch crt with a toshiba jungle chip, the worst part was the 0.5 Vpp input levels. obv a simple voltage divider worked wonders, but yeah basically it was pretty annoying lol edit: wow it's really strange how that sony tv is NTSC only, that jvc i mentioned is from 1991 or so, and it's a "multinorma" (as advertised), so it supports PAL-N, PAL-M and NTSC. maybe thats because standards here in south america are weird as hell lmfao
Ah the 13" unit. I had a 13" black and white TV for my bedroom back in the early 80's. Back when I was young and could see much better. I can't imagine watching a 13" set now from across the room today. The smallest "TV / monitor" that I own is 43". 🤠👍
Hello. Thank you very much for sharing, with this explanation I cannot fail with the Sega Genasis model 1 and CXA1871. Regards and Success! (Google translator)
I just enjoy sipping my coffee and watching the insides of the gadgets that amazed us in 1985-2000. A Dunkin' / $tarbucks / TimHortons toast to Adrian.
As a well known character said: "fascinating!" I will never do that, cause there is no need for me, but - it was a fascinating watch like a good crime thriller into bed. Thank you. :)
I vaguely remember the little 13" Magnavox TV I had in the early '90s, and I believe those may be a potential candidate for an RGB mod (but replace the pots on the neck board first! The ones on mine went out) - the chassis series was 13K4 or 13L4.
To get a neat DB-9 cutout find an old card bracket with a DB-9 or DB15-HD cutout and trim it to a suitably small size to use as a template. Drill the holes for the binding posts, and use those to temporarily hold the 'template' in place. Then with the template in place use it as a guide to drill the required plastic out and file the edges smooth. Then remove the 'template' and fit the DB9 as needed.
I've had one of those 9 inch sets on my desk for a few years now (same model, the kv-9pt60). I use a composite extension cord so I can plug in devices from the front and it has been perfect to test out old consoles, and to plug in my Jack Pacific plug and play console so I can play galaga on it when I want to. I got it for a bout $5 from a retro game store that was going to recycle it because it didn't have a remote, and the front power button is semi broke (it seems the plastic bracket broke so the button flops around in the socket, but otherwise works), I bought a remote off eBay for $10 and it works great. My only gripe is that I have to use the cable extension since it doesn't have a front plug, but learning that this set was supposed to be for vehicle mounting, that feature makes sense to me now. Ive wanted to open the TV up to fix the front power button for a while now but am afraid of breaking the tube (or shocking myself).
Great video! I recently picked up a similar 13" TV but from Sharp; the service manual described its jungle chip in detail (I think I could do a very similar RGB mod, but don't know if I have the time). I did notice the color killer pin on it and wondered if that may be an interesting mod (wiring it up to an on/off switch) especially if someone had an Apple II/+/e/c since rainbow text isn't all that fun to read. Does the chip in your model have such a pin?
Loved this video thanks for sharing. I was lucky enough to live in the uk and back in the day used a Philips cm8833 mk1 monitor for my ibm xt clone using cga (rgb digital) my snes for scart rgb analogue and composite for my vcr. A great monitor, I have been looking for a crt to do some retro systems, so this video has inspired me.
I'm very glad you added the comment about the "hot chassis" thing on TVs / monitors. It's quite an insidious danger, because in certain setups, somebody could add an RGB (or Composite, or Component) input mod to a TV, and it could seem to "work" fine when used with something like a console as the source. But those new input cables to the TV (including the "ground" / shield, and connectors) will be floating at MAINS potential. :o (or at least around the DC potential after the bridge rectifier, or after the regulator, which is just as bad.) Many consoles have power supplies don't require a mains Earth, so you might not even notice the problem until it's too late. If somebody then goes to unplug the cables from the console, or touches the cables/plugs and something else that is Earthed (like a radiator, or other piece of equipment that is Earthed), they could receive a *lethal* shock! It sounds like quite a rare scenario, but believe me, it happens. People have been hurt before when attempting mods like this. It can of course be done perfectly safely, but please do be super careful. If you're in ANY doubt at all about about how to safely do a mod like this, please let somebody more qualified / experienced to do the mod. Also, as Adrian mentioned in the vid, the power supply, capacitors, heatsinks, and the tube itself in a TV/monitor can be dangerous too, even after being powered off for a while. (I'm sure I'll now have somebody say "It's not that bad" as usual, but whatever. lol. If this makes even ONE person think twice about attempting a mod like this without previous experience, then it's worth the few detractors in the replies.)
Oh, and on most "hot chassis" TVs, it really does mean the *entire* internal board(s) and most components will be at Mains potential. So they had to isolate any exposed external metal, like on the RF (antenna) connector, where they often used an insulating block with safety capacitors to allow the RF signal to pass, but blocked the high-voltage. That means all of the internal components, heatsinks, tuner shield, everything inside the TV can be dangerous to touch. Most of those TVs are designed with chunky plastic buttons on the outside, so there's no chance of the user directly touching any of the conductive parts that go to the main boards inside. (that's probably another reason why most older sets only had a few inputs like RF and maybe Composite + Audio, because those would have needed full isolation as well.) It's true that in the later part of the 80s, many TVs started using a fully isolated power supply, so they no longer had to insulate the external connectors and other exposed metal parts. But this is "retro" we're talking about here, which means TVs as old as from the 70s or early-80s. So-called "hot chassis" or "live chassis" TVs and monitors were more common in 100-120V land, too... In countries which used a lower mains voltage, it was usually cheaper to design a power supply that just used the rectified mains directly, and a small voltage regulator that ran the flyback and the rest of the set. In 200-240V Countries, a simple linear regulator would have dissipated too much heat (since the B+ rail in most TVs rarely needed to be above about 150 Volts). Or was just harder to design things that way, so TVs with an isolated SMPS tend to be a bit more common in those Countries.
For added protection, in the last step before feeding from your custom circuits to the set, you could use diodes to clamp the voltage. Really any diode or series of diodes with a voltage drop in the valid input range would protect the display by dumping any voltage in excess of what you want to ground.
I think this video is going to be pretty useful for me. I have a 20" Trinitron of similar vintage that I had been thinking about RGB modding but hadn't really looked into it yet. Looking at the service manual now, it seems to use a very similar setup to this set, and may even be slightly easier to mod.
The shifting of the horizontal position is common in SCART regions too. I remember seeing it on Sky Digital (UK) satellite receivers when switching from PAL composite to RGB mode in the settings. It's a result of using the composite sync for the RGB video; there's a slight delay between the sync and video so it results in horizontal shift.
Don't forget to hook up your CoCo 3 to this RGB set as well! The CoCo 3 has an analog RGB connector on the bottom of the case, and of course, its RGB picture looks awesome.
That's a great little set! I'd love to have one of those!
Why would you want this?
I used to work at RCA. You do NOT want to be using a CRT today. It's a particle accelerator. You have a very real refresh rate on it, which even if you can't see, trust me, your brain can. This is why we used to get headaches staring at these things.
Trinitron was a cost reduction process in creating the screen, it works great for monitors because you can align it up with pixels, but it's not an improvement over picture quality.
We're engineers, what we've replaced and obsoleted WAS inferior. CRTs are a terrible technology, but given no memory storage, the inability to do transparent circuit layout, etc, it made a blurry image possible. It was fine, for 1980.
Consider where we are today. In 2000 years, image and video fidelity will NOT be better than what we have today. It might be different, maybe 70 Hz, maybe 50, maybe 700, but we won't have a significant difference in quality. Whatever civilization is there, will be able to see what our life was like.
You REALLY want to go back to CRTs and videotapes?
@@fuzzywzhe The idea is to use them with older computers like Apple IIGS or Amiga. Screens made for these units are getting rare and expensive, this is an inexpensive way to get decent video quality on them. Yeah you can use LCD screens, but they simply don't look right.
@@danaeckel5523 You just don't want to use a CRT at all. You really don't even want to use an old computer.
A rasbperry pi (when they are available) cost $35. With a 128 GB SD card, you can easily simulate (at the instruction level) an Amiga or C=64. That will use, at maximum 20 watts, including the screen. You can put any filter you want on the display.
I simply don't understand the obsession with old hardware. They were space heaters, they are RF pollutants as well. The CRTs caused eye strain, they were terribly inefficient, why would you want to go back to that?
I remember seeing full motion video on an Amiga back in the late 1980's. I saw the first attempts at raytracing.
The frustration of working with these early, primitive machines - what's the point? I can render an old style computer monitor from 1990 on a 4K television. Why do anything with the old systems? Nobody can answer that.
It was cutting edge technology at the time, but why bother with it? Babbage machines are an interesting machine, however, you wouldn't want to use one in lieu of a calculator or even a phone - you don't even want to use a calculator today.
@@fuzzywzhe Why are you even here if you don't like retro computers?
@@PG-gs5vb I'm an engineer.
It's not that I don't appreciate what was created before me, or even stuff I worked on, it's that we have superior solutions to old problems.
I used to do optimization with real time operating systems to make, frankly, awful hardware work within limitations by converting to assembly. That job is entirely obsolete, a typical optimizer can do a better job than I can.
We fixed SO MANY problems.
I could understand this if the previous solutions used less power, or were better in SOME way, but they aren't. I can run a simulator of an Amiga in a web-browser, and not only does it use less power, it's faster than the machine I had 35 years ago.
There's NO WAY that earlier solutions are superior. Building blocks from these old systems still exist, but there's no reason to use the old hardware.
Understand where we're at. You can store more books than you can read in a lifetime on a $12 SD Card. It DEMOLISHES the Library of Alexandria, you can probably have the entire NYC library system on such device, and you can lose it between your couch cushions.
Your PHONE can do nuclear bomb simulation. You can EASILY handle the emails and communications of 1000 people on it.
We are at the point a TOY machine can handle the communication and storage needs of a company. Welcome to the future dude.
You ask me why I don't like retro-computing, that's not the case. Why don't you like modernity? I'm not kidding, every book you've ever read, ever will read, every book everybody know has read, fits on an $11 device. You can literally carry around the knowledge of civilization in your pocket.
Nice mod. When making holes in plastics, I draw/trace out the hole, drill a starter hole and then file it by hand with small diamond files. I find the dremel is too fast and harsh for plastics. The file takes longer but the end result is always smarter and worth the extra time. You also have the advantage of test-fitting and filing a bit more.
Came here to say exactly this!
Came here to say almost this, one tip is to make starter/pilot holes with solder-iron to all 4 corners, then drill them with little bit larger like 4mm (5/32inch)
I have had luck making precise holes in plastic by drilling a starter hole and then use a dremel with a "grout cleaning bit" running at a low/medium speed. This bit resembles a round file and as long as you keep the speed low enough, it won't melt the plastic but you retain decent control over the material carved off the edge.
If the setup allows it, attach a plunge router head over the end of the dremel to give you something to lean against and keep the tip from running.
@@petergriffin6126 Thanks, good tip Peter. Now here's a _tip_ tip for you.
Melting plastic instantly contaminates and eventually ruins soldering iron tips!
I always change to a dedicated spare sacrificial tip to isolate that damage.
I purchased an inexpensive 240 vac "wood burner" iron to use on 120 vac exclusively for poking holes in plastic, but never got around to see if that works. It might require a lose Aluminum foil wrap to get temp up a bit. IDK.
In any case, I don't think those (Palestine, OH-like) fumes are healthy for you or your liver, so be careful.
@@FindLiberty My tip for the tip is check before you zip....😉
Ym is actually a "Picture Mute" which dims the picture by -6dB, regardless of if its from the Y/C or RGB inputs. This can be used as part of a sleep function to dim the picture as a both a warning that the sleep timer is about to expire, and as a softer way of turning off as to not wake the user.
That's so considerate
I wonder if it could be used to 'tame' the extra 'hot' output from the Atari, without having to adjust the levels in the service menu? Add a second switch to the back...
The chip seems to be made for JP21 specifications, which has RGB 0.7 Vp-p, sync 1 ohm p-p, Ys 1V+ and Ym 1V H (the exact same values in the sheet). Ym in that specification is described as "Switches RGB to half-brightness, for video overlay."
This was not an ordinary CRT video but a real electronic engineering masterclass! Thank you Adrian!
It is not just a regular crt tv as they use Aperture Grille while other just use typical shadow mask
I kept a few late 1990s, early 2000s Trinitron products for use with my old computer collection. Best decision I ever made.
yay! I'm hopefully doing an RGB mod to a Trinitron in the next month or so, and it's great to see another nice example of how to use the schematic and datasheets to determine what components are needed to get the desired output!
Interesting 👍
A good thing about SCART (and JP-21, a copy of SCART with a different pinout) is that you can skip the switch in these mods, since they carry the 1V signal for the blanking on pin 16. For retro computers, you can feed 5V into the cable through a simple circuit to draw it down to within specification.
The reason you had to turn the RGBP setting down so much is because your circuit is missing 75 ohm termination resistors to ground on the analog RGB lines. Those are needed to set the correct 0.7 Vp-p signal levels that the jungle IC is expecting. And while it probably doesn't matter so much for such a small, low-resolution set, having the proper termination also helps to reduce reflection artifacts.
Is that something like a pulldown resistor?
I thought about adding 75 ohm to ground -- I may do that in the future as it can easily be added it to the PCB. The RGBP being set to about 50 of the range doesn't seem like a problem though. There would be no reason to want this setting to have to run at the maximum all the time.
@@CollinBaillie yes video is normalised at 75 ohms , the reistor in parallel with the circuit will terminate the line for the computer at 75 just like a regular monitor does
In the UK, once scart became standard from the early 90's, pretty much every tv had RGB as standard. My first Sony Trintitron 14” was in 1992 and that had RGB Scart and looked superb in our AMIGA 600.
General in europe. In Germany too.
But having a scart input does not mean RGB will be working as it may be that only composite input is implemented.
But you are right that normally, having a scart plug almost guarantees RGB compatibility.
@@eldontyrellcorp All serious brands had RGB input. Because it was mandatory for the French market. I've yet to come across a TV that doesn't do RGB. What is hit-and-miss is 60Hz support. That became more common in the nineties.
Back in the heyday of the Sega Genesis, I had a Sony Trinitron TV like that. Being in Europe, I was able to get an RGB SCART cable for it, and was really impressed with the clarity and detail of the picture; those Trinitron sets were excellent for gaming!
lcd tv's always have been awful to game on with the slow response rate ,resolution doesn't match your console, input lag. yucky shiny black plastic. even a pc gaming led monitor is better than a hd tv it still has pixel trailing.
The theory & design section of this video is worth any price of admission. Thank you, Adrian, for sharing this stuff with us freely.
Greenlee, Klein, Thomas & Betts, and other toolmakers offer a set of knockout punches for DB-9 and DB-25 (some makers even include the Centronics punch...) I'm not exactly sure how these would work on plastics, but they make a really neat and correctly shaped opening for these connectors in metal...
heat up the punch with a hot air gun and press through the plastic!
bro you really took the time to write all that?
Your CRT warning always reminds me of the "work experience" placement I did back in the mid 80s when I was about 14; it was a small local electronics firm that did computer repairs including servicing monitors, and one day I was given vague instructions on how to remove a CRT from something and then left with pretty much no supervision. The shock I got pulling the anode out taught me a lesson I will never forget!
On a less potentially fatal note, America really got stiffed by missing out on SCART; I have a pretty bargain basement (Bush, a name that rarely inspired confidence) 14" CRT TV from around the same era and it's got composite, S-Video, and RGB right out of the box, and I recently discovered that while it doesn't support NTSC it's perfectly happy running at 60Hz (most likely by accident rather than by design) so I can use stuff from the US/Japan as long as it has an RGB output.
America had EIA Multiport aka SCART.
@Gareth Fairclough insert joke about Ireland/Scotland/Wales here! lol, sorry, but am I wrong? 😜
@Gareth Fairclough you probably grew up with older TVs around you, RF only sets were common in the mid 80s and I've seen people using the same TV for like 25 years.
My family only upgraded to an LCD TV in 2013, we went from a 90s 32" CRT to a 50" LCD and the size difference was hard to get used to.
@garethfairclough8715 They were only common in tvs made from early 90's onwards and since they cost so much new back then people bought used sets, I did see it on a tv around 1994 but knew nothing that used it, I did get a Saturn in 1997 but had to plug it into a video recorder I had which had Scart and then that to tv via RF, when I got some money from relatives in 1999 I bought a new tv that had scart on it and never went back, component I only began seeing around 2003 when consoles like the PS2 supported it.
I bought a set very similar to this one (it's either the one after or before) at an estate sale down the street. They had two, so I plugged them in, they both looked great showing static (no obvious burn in), and the one was super clean and clearly barely used. Been meaning to do this for a while now, so it's great that you showed the steps. My friend gave birth a few months back, and I plan on coming up to see her when the kid is old enough to play video games and bring an NES! It'll be interesting to see their reaction. The portability of it is great, since I can easily take it in the car, and still be able to play light gun games!
I'm glad you're always assertive about CRT safety warnings. It's absolutely worth saying. I didn't know about old 80s CRTs in North America being dangerous to add input mods to. I wouldn't be caught dead opening a CRT, too terrified of electricity as-is. CRTs are the equivalent of getting struck by lightning in my mind.
This is not exclusive to 80s American crt TVs.
A little electricity never hurt anyone.
@@chitlitlah Somewhat true for the US, with 110V only being dangerous in conjunction with moisture, like in a bathroom, which also seems to be the only place where you'll find GFCI/RCDs in the US.
Unfortunately, it's a lot more than just 110V inside a TV.
tbf it's not that dangerous, just dont stick your hand in random places with the set on, remember to discharge it before working on it (with a simple screw driver and a cable to ground). also the service manual is your friend, with it you can identify high voltage areas, ie flyback and the psu. also i wear some rubber gloves when i have to touch things around the tube or high voltage areas, say the flyback or convergence rings.
Typical fear mongering by people who at the same time admit they are ignorant of electronics.
One note about D1 diode, it has a voltage drop which can vary between diode type, would be beneficial to measure voltage after the diode when adjusting potentiometer
It's so cute! Tiny CRTs are honestly kind of useless for most applications, but they are absolutely adorable and worth having around just for the aesthetic if you've got the space.
They are better to film than big screen tv's though for retro game footage. You can see the pixel art more clearly.
This little CRT is literally adorable
RGB switching signal is active from 1V to VCC+0.7V, so there was no need for a voltage divider to get 1V.
Yes, the values in the datasheet are voltage _thresholds_ , not target voltages. VIH of 1.0V means the voltage input on that pin needs to be _minimum_ of 1.0V to be considered logic 'high', and conversely, a VIL of 0.4V means it needs to be _maximum_ of 0.4V to be considered logic 'low'.
Its so nice to have rgb on pretty much entry level CRT TVs here in Europe. Can litterally walk into the next thrift store which still has some CRTs, check for a scart connector, and 9 out of 10 will do RGB on it. Something I used a lot with my Amiga 500 at the time, on a bigger Sony trinitron, and still use for my C128, with a small adapter which lets me switch between the 2 outputs of that machine, and uses the signalling on scart to tell the TV which input to use. (and does 4 bit passive rgbi to analog rgb 'conversion')
I had the massive 30" model in 1997 - unbelievably heavy. Bought it and Dreamcast on the same day.
I recently saw what looked like a 36" CRT TV the other day -- I couldn't believe how large and heavy it was. Needless to say, I didn't bring it home.
Do you still have the Dreamcast you bought in 1997? It might be very valuable.
I had a 36" Widescreen Trinitron years ago. Had to get rid of it because of space. It weighed 96kg or 210 lbs! I now have a 28" Bang & Olufsen 4:3 CRT in my garage.
Dreamcast came out in 1998 in Japan
Great project presented very clearly and thoroughly! I always feel like I've learned a ton after watching your videos. Now to keep my eyes open for a Sony set :)
I have the industrial version of the 9 inch SONY RGB monitor, CPD-9000. It really has an amazing picture with rich saturation. I've had this set for over 25 years, and for some reason the RGB connector didn't work as described, so I hard wired a DB-9 to the set and it worked! That set hadn't been used for probably 30 years, it was surplused in the 90's and never used until a few years ago.
Very nice mod and that'll be a perfect little display to use
I really enjoy your crt videos Adrian. Keep it up!
Sitting here in Europe watching something that is completely unnecessary yet still somehow captivating! The pairing of that cute lil' 9" CRT with the dinky A600 was perfect!
The nostalgia that hit when the Lemmings 2 cutscene suddenly popped on screen. Great video!
What a lovely job. The way you talk through the mod is super educational and easy to follow. I’m sure plenty of people will come up with further tweaks but I love your spirit of just getting things working. Thanks
About the 1084 flyback, there actually was a commodore service bulletin about flybacks in monitors manufactured in a specific date range going bad, and these should always be replaced by service centers if they get one of the affected monitors in. Probably the many units failing nowadays are those that were affected by this problem.
Oh that's interesting. Luckily a company is making new replacement ones today -- although they aren't as good quality and supper voltage sag, leading to geometry issues.
i put this video on , because of the Populous thumbnail, but i stayed for the entire explanation.
well done adrian !
Awesome. Digging all the CRT content recently. Thanks!
so lucky i live in PAL land with scart sockets, the quality brand ones also support ntsc/60hz as well - i have a Trinitron 15" love it
"It just freakin' works!" Thanks for your inspirational content.
Adrian, I was first attracted to your channel from the tv repairs but fell in love with the computers I used as a kid. You're knowledge is overwhelming and we appreciate it!
To get the right size hole for the connector, I'd be tempted to dismantle one of the male DE9s, remove the pins and just keep the outer shell metal portion, then hold it in pliers and heat it up with a hot air gun or a flame, and gently push it into the plastic - it should 'cookie cutter' exactly the right size hole - you'd have to practice a bit, and maybe do it outside or somewhere well ventilated if it's giving off fumes, but if you don't want to go all that far, just pushing it in a little and then using that smooth edge as a guide for a dremel tool would work. Thanks for these videos, they're always entertaining and informative, I learn something new every time 😃
I should really grab some old junk plastic and give that a try. I bet if I had looked, I could have found some printable templates online to help with the cutting. :-)
I use an old graphics card backplate as a template, tape it to the plastic, and run the dremel bit around it like a router.
Coming from the PAL-M region, I do appreciate seeing mods like these. Kudos!
I have a couple of 10" Semp Toshiba TVs that are just like that Trinitron, and also have the 12v input option. The quality of the image from the composite input is astoundingly good, very clear.
excellent video learned a lot! those resistor and capacitor filters are used in many areas including memory modules etc. i think that many OEM make a PCB with all the features and then remove the components for the lower end models. i noticed amiga pcb do this a lot. it would be fun to watch a video where the missing components were added back to the system and functionality was returned. keep up the good work and thanks!
the KV9PT60 was afavorite on movie sets because it could be powered by 12V, you could add a video out (most of the times the pc board already had all the pads to solder the component for that) the tuner is on a daughter board and we coiuld tap on that board to add a tuner out independant of the video out and we could also slow them down to a 24 fps scan rate ideal for onscreen video playback, you could see them in many movie scenes because of that feature alone
I guess since it works at 25fps with VSMO set to 1, it works ok at 24fps as well? That's pretty cool, I hadn't thought of that.
@@adriansdigitalbasement we were using a frame rate converter made for the movie industry by Schindler, since in film we are using 24 fps the converter would make a NTSC 48i signal., I remember that in the service mode we were playing with another menu V-something (V sweep ???) and we would bring the value to a higher number until we have a picture scroll lock , sometimes when the camera was HD instead of film we had to shoot at 23.98 and set the schindler and tv for that rate, when I was a technician for Willam F White in Canada , who was the largest movie equipement rental house back then, I remember modifying at least 15 KV9 for tuner out (by adding a small homemade board video amp) , soldering the SMT parts that were not on the main board to get a video out too (alll the parts around Q406 that you show in the service manual around 25 minutes) , we were rigging them like this: addon tuner out to an external recorder , recorder out to video in , we tuned the tv to get the NTSC wireless sender of the film cameras and by pushing the input button we could switch between live and recorder for playback on the tv and instant playback
Similar in Australia as well regarding Market driven CRT TVs from Asia (Tho PAL) . RF only originally, then with later VCRs RF and Composite (mid 80's), then with higher end / later VCRs S-Video, then with DVDs S-Video and Component. Great video Adrian.
Super handy size! Great mod.. I’d love rgb on my 1998 Samsung 19”.. I’m just not confident enough around the high voltage yet. Great vid as always, Adrian.
Sad part about Scart & RGB is, I never used it until the past few years when I learned about RGB over Scart, sure I used Scart to connect stuff up back before HDMI took over, but never even knew about it having RGB capabilities until the vids on RGB-modding cropped up (E.G. 8-Bit Guy's Samsung TV, and your own trash-picked (RCA?) one) and the Scart crowd went smugmode over it, first thing I realised I could use was my PS1 which I didn't realise I already had an RGB cable for... :P
It is interesting that the RGB inputs are AC coupled to the jungle IC with a series RC, but what is missing is the input 75 ohm termination resistors. The cables are so short reflections are probably not an issue, however if the termination resistors were added it would knock the video down by 50% and the contrast control would probably not have to be set at its limit. As far as protection I would also add the Zener as was shown in the Sony monitor schematic, bringing CMOS pins to external connectors without protection is probably not a good idea.
I was searching for the answer if Sony KV-14T1D Workbench image would be as sharp as Commodore 1084S and somehow stumbled upon this conversion mod. Cool stuff 😳
Thank you, for making it clear that TVs that have no isolation from mains are dangerous to modify.
Oooooh the black model! RGB mod, too. Nice. I think these little guys would be excellent finds for retro gaming. Only so many PVMs to go around.
absolutely lethal AND dangerous!!!!!!! ooohhhhhhhh
We had the same 9" Sony that we bought for the kids (3) on a cross country road trip. It was used for a N64 and VCR/DVD combo player to keep them entertained. I should say that it is still working today!
Monitor mods are fairly interesting and giving a new purpose/use case for a CRT is a nice way to reuse the older tech and not have it clutter our landfills or whatever else they do to them in the end. This screen has a few more years of usefulness added to it. ☺
If you have a TV with component video inputs, a less invasive means of getting RGB on it is with an SCART RGB-Component adapter. RetroTink makes the one I use. I really like it because it includes stereo audio breakouts, and unlike some of the cheaper ones on Amazon, you don't have to tweak a bunch of pots to get the picture dialed in right. There are tons of pre-made SCART RGB cables for game consoles and computers, too.
Hi Adrian, at 32:23 you asked for suggestions for how to cut a hole for the DB9 connector. I second the suggestion for using a Nibbling Tool. I got mine at a Radio Shack many years ago and it has worked great for me on aluminum and plastic. Nice tool to have in your toolbox!
I'm always amazed to see that a lot of CRT TVs already has RGB of course with a bit of modification and a bit of electronic knowledge you can make a great monitor for many computers and even consoles that also has RGB for example the Super Nintendo it is a great example and most thought that the S-Video is the top of the line but no it also has RGB and I seen pictures on the online and they look gorgeous in my opinion absolutely lovely.
In Europe, many TVs had RGB input via the SCART connector (aka Peritel) from the mid-80s.
It was probably a cost saving measure, as every TV I owned, unless they were RF only, would have at least one RGB SCART socket, and have never seen a TV with composite input, though you could plug in composite into the SCART socket with an adapter.
I guess by cost reducing. European TV should not have so different circuitry.
In regards of SNES, it's funny how the N64 has worse tv signals than its predecessor.
Aw, that little CRT is so smol and cute!
My 1084 has a round DIN6 for analog RGB in. A panel mount hole for that would've been much easier lol
I actually have a Sony KVM with only composite in, I plan to add an RGBA input to it. These videos are very helpful!
For the sync, I can confirm: The Oric Atmos has a single sync pin which merges HSync and VSync (they have different amplitudes so they can be dinstinguished) signals, and my 1084 monitor had zero problem with the Oric, with a rock solid picture and vibrant colors (more or less bright depending if I enabled the TTL button or not)
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
Thanks Vince for the kind words and super thanks!
It was great that in Europe most quality TVs from early 90s onwards supported RGB via a SCART connector. I have 2 Trinitron CRTs from the 90s and they both have s-video which is great to have as well.
Make that early eighties. France started enforcing it in 1981, and maybe by 1983 it was implemented in most European sets.
@@2kBofFun indeed, and became more common as we progressed through the 80s and into the 90s thankfully.
I always tried to avoid composite wherever possible. Being in Europe (UK) I was lucky enough to have a BBC micro along with a Microvitec Cub RGB monitor and it was so VERY much better than composite. I had a 14" Trinitron a few years later and it worked very nicely via RGB with my Atari ST via scart although I do remember having to combine the syncs with a diode/capacitor hack.
In the US in the 1980s it was pretty much a choice between an RF-only home television, or a composite/RGB monitor. Many people opted for the former as a cost-saving approach, especially for 8- and even 16-bit consoles. I think a lot of people even opted to buy a smaller secondary RF-only TV for 8-bit computer use because of the versatility, although when VCRs got cheaper you could use their RF tuners and composite outputs to effectively turn a monitor into a TV (my brother and I did this in the 1990s with an old green monochrome composite monitor, which makes me very familiar with color NTSC dot crawl lol).
It was always a massive bugbear of mine whenever I'd buy a new games console and they always packed in those awful composite cables with a SCART adapter. Made for a really ugly picture.
I could understand if they shipped with RF(they were aiming for the lowest common denominator) but even my X-Box 360 had those crappy things packed in. It almost felt like a con, 'cause an actual SCART cable would cost at least an extra 20 quid. I've never even seen a TV with composite in, not counting plugging it in via SCART adapter.
They had those cub monitors at our middle school for the BBC micro. They all gave you a terrible shock if you were touching the screen when switching it off!
@@fattomandeibu Composite, also known as RCA. I bet you know what the A stands for. Being from Canada, we also got stuck with that S***! Conversely, I've only ever seen scart once in person -- my friend's family brought their electronics and game consoles back from Germany with them, when they moved back to Canada. At least things started getting component here eventually before HDMI finally took over.
@@HunterZBNS Over here in England, most cheap TVs in the '80s were RF only, too, but composite(which compared to RGB looks horrible) was pretty rare. The only time I ever seen it was when I bought a game console prior to HDMI(even my X-Box 360 from, I think 2008), which would come with composite cables with RGB adapter(you still got the crappy picture) and it annoyed me every time.
As I said before, it was almost like they were conning you, I have so many of those dumb adapters, but it's what they packed, and then charged you about US$30-40 for a proper RGB cable.
It's amazing how far technology has come from 1996: from bulky 9" CRT's to iPad's of around the same size only millimeters thick 😮
Note on the Ys signal - the data sheet indicated that this is a logic level input... Vih (min) means that the minimum voltage to be recognised as a logic high is 1V. The maximum voltage allowed would be equal to Vcc. It would have been enough to simply put 9V on the pin to give it a logic 1. A neat way to do this would be to tie the Ys pin high using e.g. 10K to Vcc, and then use your switch to pull it to ground. You would get the same toggle effect with only two wires to the switch :)
For the sync signal, it's very typical to use a 330 ohm resistor in Amiga SCART cables, to pad down the TTL sync level to the 1V p-p signal that SCART expects. The resistor alone is enough because the composite sync input on SCART is terminated by 75 ohms. So you could probably omit the pot and simply have 330 ohms plus your diode (a 1n4148 would be plenty). You may not even need the diode because there would be no path to ground to worry about.
These have a great service mode too that you can get into on the remote with a key combo.
"The magic of buying two of them."
Such a cute little CRT, just want to put it in my pocket. Nice video, super informative :)
The RGB switching signal is used to blank the video to guarantee a blank video as the other switching signal would enable the information system display. The micro would have to clear memory which takes up micro cycles and code in a very small memory. If you have a pin available then you can save a lot of code by just toggling a pin. We forget we have so much memory available to us which was not available back over 20 years ago.
The appropriate name for that connector is DE9 not DB9. A DB9 connector would be the same size as a DB25 connector, but only have 9 pins.
15:00 Quick note on doing the RGB mod this way. The voltage level here is typical TTL 5v whereas the RGB signal level coming in might be 0.1v-1.0v so an amplifier and corresponding sync circuitry is needed.
Nice! RGB mod for a Sony Trinitron my favourite CRT TV.
I had no idea that I2C protocol was that old and that it would be found in a analog TV. Nice!
The original Philips patent is actually from 1980, so yeah, it's old
Indeed -- and in the past, I had a trashpicked TV which I hooked an arduino up to take full control of the TV via I2C. I was able to do some fun things with it on the fly. I thought about trying it with this TV, but interesting is it has 3 or was it 4 I2C busses on it -- instead of one shared bus. Not sure why Sony did it that way.
56 minutes long pure joy
He said 19 minuets after the video was posted
Nice mod :) - Not to be nitpicking, but the connector is named DE-9. E is the shell size. A DB-9 would be B width (25 pins connector) and have only 9 pins. It doesn't exist :D
It's a shame people always say if you're not experienced working on CRT monitors, don't work on CRT monitors. I get that they do it because of liability, but everyone has to start somewhere, and how are you ever going to get experienced if everyone tells you not to even try?
I wish CRT videos on youtube would provide safety tips and educate people on how to work on CRTs safely instead of telling people to not even try.
Its like telling people that if they've never driven a car before to not even try because one wrong move could get them killed on the road.
Right? As he was saying that, I was thinking "how about you think about what you're saying, Adrian, I know you don't actually agree with that". The irony is that he understated the danger (if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it... Guess what, plenty of people will erroneously think they know what they're doing).
BTW in the service mode menu Vsize could be ajusted and if I remember correctly a value around 28 29 will bring the image in a letter box format while the OSD in green stays in top corner
WoW this reminds me of a mod I did to a crt set for an Amstrad 464 back in the 80's. Most sets had inputs to the video for an Teletext module. You could just hook up the rgb sync from the video connector on the Amstrad to the rgb input for the Teletext. Biut my lads still remember playing games on a 26" tv not the norm in the 80's.😊😊
I have a KV-20S10 which has a similar if not the same jungle chip with a spare analog RGB input. As far as RGB mods go, this seems like a fairly trivial one to do. Mine unfortunately doesn't have that nice back plate so when I did my S-Video mod, I had to leave some extra length so I can disconnect it before fully pulling the back off. I have half a mind to use a DB-9 connector when I eventually get around to doing an RGB mod instead of the usual SCART just because space is at a premium already back there.
RGB SCART was the way I played Resident Evil 2 on my PS1 back in the day! (I modded the PS1 and imported RE2) (also I was lucky my TV could handle 60hz with a vsync tweak) 18:29 I remember having to take apart SCART cables to check for those capacitors as a lot of SCART cables said they were RGB but were not connected!
In Europe, all those Sony TVs come with RGB input via SCART by default. No mod needed. Also, later models like shown in this video, including 50 and 60Hz (PAL/NTSC) output. It’s weird for me know that in US most of TVs rarely included this and you need to mod TVs to get something that in EU was an standard.
It is interesting how all later TVs in Europe supported NTSC. This must have been dictated by market demand so people could play back imported media or use imported hardware, but it was never the reverse.
@@adriansdigitalbasement I remember NTSC compatibility being advertised almost as an aspirational/glamour feature of sets, because it implied you'd been to the USA on holiday, or maybe your second home, and either bought media there, or possibly recorded home videos on a US spec camcorder. I also got the idea it was aimed at people who wanted to watch "Directors cut" editions of movies that were only ever released on NTSC VHS or LaserDisc. Of course, if Sony can make one chip for both markets, that saves money, and if they can sell "NTSC compatibility" as a premium feature for something the universal chipset can already do, even better!
@@adriansdigitalbasement what's odd is that, in the UK at least, I never knew anyone have NTSC equipment. wonder if it was just that they added PAL to the NTSC chip and it was more effort to remove the ntsc functionality.
I remember we also had "PAL-60" available on lots of TVs, particularly in the late 90s and early 00s. This was even, IIRC, supported on the original Xbox, so you'd get the higher resolution of PAL combined with the higher refresh rate of NTSC for the best of both worlds.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Market demand in Europe with free trade across borders did require that TVs did support both PAL and SECAM. 60Hz PAL did exist in Brasil. If you both PAL and SECAM, and do both 50Hz and 60Hz then adding NTSC is not a big deal either. The feature wasn't useless after all. However it only happen when the chips were sufficiently integrated that it didn't require a lot of additional components.
Easy analog brightness and contrast controls would be an awesome mod to do to TVs of that era - and to modern TVs too, come to think of it!
In Europe TV from the 80s got Scart inputs with seperate RGB and stereo audio in/out -puts. A control signal to when switching on the VCR it switched to te Scart input. Later the control signal was used to detect a 16/9 picture.
Well done. I like using the unused functions on old devices like this. 👍
for the hole above the DB15 plug, you can put some superglue and sprinkle baking soda on it, and it will form a dense white material that you can build up by repeating this to build up layers and it will fill in that hole.
In the arcade scene, we make boxes called Superguns that are designed to take RGB signals from arcade game PCBs from dozens of manufacturers, all with different ideas of what a "proper" RGB signal should be, so we just put variable resistors on the RGB signals so we can fine-tune the brightness on each PCB.
In your case, it might be a good idea to make a box with two DB15 plugs on it and some variable resistors to adjust the RGB brightness, and maybe a method of reducing the voltage on the sync input in case you hook up something like a console that uses TTL Sync, which might damage the Jungle IC. A 330-450 ohm resistor should do the trick.
Regarding the brightness of the Atari ST, it's actually different between the STF and the STE. When Atari expanded the Shifter from 512 to 4096 colors they apparently recalibrated the output so the maximum white of the STE is brighter and the maximum white of the STF.
Ah! Interesting. Yes I was using the my STE.
"Without further ado, let's get right to it." *insert further ado* 😆
Interesting video, thank you!
very cool. i recently modded a jvc 14 inch crt with a toshiba jungle chip, the worst part was the 0.5 Vpp input levels. obv a simple voltage divider worked wonders, but yeah basically it was pretty annoying lol
edit: wow it's really strange how that sony tv is NTSC only, that jvc i mentioned is from 1991 or so, and it's a "multinorma" (as advertised), so it supports PAL-N, PAL-M and NTSC. maybe thats because standards here in south america are weird as hell lmfao
Ah the 13" unit. I had a 13" black and white TV for my bedroom back in the early 80's. Back when I was young and could see much better. I can't imagine watching a 13" set now from across the room today. The smallest "TV / monitor" that I own is 43". 🤠👍
I own one of those 13 inch units. Love it for retro gaming
Hello. Thank you very much for sharing, with this explanation I cannot fail with the Sega Genasis model 1 and CXA1871. Regards and Success! (Google translator)
I just enjoy sipping my coffee and watching the insides of the gadgets that amazed us in 1985-2000.
A Dunkin' / $tarbucks / TimHortons toast to Adrian.
When I used to sell TV's in the late '70s. I loved the Trinitron tubes.
We in Europe had an advantage with the scart connector. Nearly every scart connector had a rgb input.
As a well known character said: "fascinating!" I will never do that, cause there is no need for me, but - it was a fascinating watch like a good crime thriller into bed. Thank you. :)
I vaguely remember the little 13" Magnavox TV I had in the early '90s, and I believe those may be a potential candidate for an RGB mod (but replace the pots on the neck board first! The ones on mine went out) - the chassis series was 13K4 or 13L4.
To get a neat DB-9 cutout find an old card bracket with a DB-9 or DB15-HD cutout and trim it to a suitably small size to use as a template. Drill the holes for the binding posts, and use those to temporarily hold the 'template' in place. Then with the template in place use it as a guide to drill the required plastic out and file the edges smooth. Then remove the 'template' and fit the DB9 as needed.
I've had one of those 9 inch sets on my desk for a few years now (same model, the kv-9pt60). I use a composite extension cord so I can plug in devices from the front and it has been perfect to test out old consoles, and to plug in my Jack Pacific plug and play console so I can play galaga on it when I want to. I got it for a bout $5 from a retro game store that was going to recycle it because it didn't have a remote, and the front power button is semi broke (it seems the plastic bracket broke so the button flops around in the socket, but otherwise works), I bought a remote off eBay for $10 and it works great. My only gripe is that I have to use the cable extension since it doesn't have a front plug, but learning that this set was supposed to be for vehicle mounting, that feature makes sense to me now. Ive wanted to open the TV up to fix the front power button for a while now but am afraid of breaking the tube (or shocking myself).
Great video! I recently picked up a similar 13" TV but from Sharp; the service manual described its jungle chip in detail (I think I could do a very similar RGB mod, but don't know if I have the time). I did notice the color killer pin on it and wondered if that may be an interesting mod (wiring it up to an on/off switch) especially if someone had an Apple II/+/e/c since rainbow text isn't all that fun to read. Does the chip in your model have such a pin?
Loved this video thanks for sharing. I was lucky enough to live in the uk and back in the day used a Philips cm8833 mk1 monitor for my ibm xt clone using cga (rgb digital) my snes for scart rgb analogue and composite for my vcr. A great monitor, I have been looking for a crt to do some retro systems, so this video has inspired me.
I'm very glad you added the comment about the "hot chassis" thing on TVs / monitors.
It's quite an insidious danger, because in certain setups, somebody could add an RGB (or Composite, or Component) input mod to a TV, and it could seem to "work" fine when used with something like a console as the source.
But those new input cables to the TV (including the "ground" / shield, and connectors) will be floating at MAINS potential. :o
(or at least around the DC potential after the bridge rectifier, or after the regulator, which is just as bad.)
Many consoles have power supplies don't require a mains Earth, so you might not even notice the problem until it's too late.
If somebody then goes to unplug the cables from the console, or touches the cables/plugs and something else that is Earthed (like a radiator, or other piece of equipment that is Earthed), they could receive a *lethal* shock!
It sounds like quite a rare scenario, but believe me, it happens.
People have been hurt before when attempting mods like this.
It can of course be done perfectly safely, but please do be super careful.
If you're in ANY doubt at all about about how to safely do a mod like this, please let somebody more qualified / experienced to do the mod.
Also, as Adrian mentioned in the vid, the power supply, capacitors, heatsinks, and the tube itself in a TV/monitor can be dangerous too, even after being powered off for a while.
(I'm sure I'll now have somebody say "It's not that bad" as usual, but whatever. lol. If this makes even ONE person think twice about attempting a mod like this without previous experience, then it's worth the few detractors in the replies.)
Oh, and on most "hot chassis" TVs, it really does mean the *entire* internal board(s) and most components will be at Mains potential.
So they had to isolate any exposed external metal, like on the RF (antenna) connector, where they often used an insulating block with safety capacitors to allow the RF signal to pass, but blocked the high-voltage.
That means all of the internal components, heatsinks, tuner shield, everything inside the TV can be dangerous to touch.
Most of those TVs are designed with chunky plastic buttons on the outside, so there's no chance of the user directly touching any of the conductive parts that go to the main boards inside.
(that's probably another reason why most older sets only had a few inputs like RF and maybe Composite + Audio, because those would have needed full isolation as well.)
It's true that in the later part of the 80s, many TVs started using a fully isolated power supply, so they no longer had to insulate the external connectors and other exposed metal parts. But this is "retro" we're talking about here, which means TVs as old as from the 70s or early-80s.
So-called "hot chassis" or "live chassis" TVs and monitors were more common in 100-120V land, too...
In countries which used a lower mains voltage, it was usually cheaper to design a power supply that just used the rectified mains directly, and a small voltage regulator that ran the flyback and the rest of the set.
In 200-240V Countries, a simple linear regulator would have dissipated too much heat (since the B+ rail in most TVs rarely needed to be above about 150 Volts). Or was just harder to design things that way, so TVs with an isolated SMPS tend to be a bit more common in those Countries.
For added protection, in the last step before feeding from your custom circuits to the set, you could use diodes to clamp the voltage. Really any diode or series of diodes with a voltage drop in the valid input range would protect the display by dumping any voltage in excess of what you want to ground.
Such a little cutie crt that makes 15.000 volts awww 😍
I think this video is going to be pretty useful for me. I have a 20" Trinitron of similar vintage that I had been thinking about RGB modding but hadn't really looked into it yet. Looking at the service manual now, it seems to use a very similar setup to this set, and may even be slightly easier to mod.
The shifting of the horizontal position is common in SCART regions too. I remember seeing it on Sky Digital (UK) satellite receivers when switching from PAL composite to RGB mode in the settings. It's a result of using the composite sync for the RGB video; there's a slight delay between the sync and video so it results in horizontal shift.
Don't forget to hook up your CoCo 3 to this RGB set as well! The CoCo 3 has an analog RGB connector on the bottom of the case, and of course, its RGB picture looks awesome.