Rolls Royce Crecy - The Most Advanced Piston Aero Engine Never Made.
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
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The Rolls Royce Crecy was a revolutionary piston aero engine that promised to take over from where the Merlin/Griffin engines left off with power level up to a possible 5000 hp from its two-stroke sleeve valve double blower design all from a 26 litre V-12. This is the story of the Rolls Royce Crecy and why you've probably never heard of it.
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Written, researched and presented by Paul Shillito
Images and footage : Rolls Royce, Historic Aero Engines, Patrick Smart, Mechtraveller, benp1981
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I'm always amazed at the apparent genius of the forgotten engineers who designed the engines for automobiles and air planes in the first half of this century. Harry Ricardo was one those engineers who helped develop both the engine and the air frames of some famous aircraft.
Cool story bro.
Sometimes I cry a little when I watch these videos. Paul is like a really fatherly uncle. His understanding and passion of the subject matter is so clear and he is a blessing to the world.
I didn’t want this video to ever end. This was brilliant! Just like every one of your videos! Thanks mate.
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@CuriousDroid The RR Merlin engine had 4 valves per cylinder.
Yes, indeed, a wonderful and informative video. I didn’t know anything about these sleeve engines, but now I know a little bit and it is fascinating. A very complicated engine though. I don’t think this kind of engine is practical for combat situation. We see that the best and most survivable aircraft of the war were actually radial engine air cooled, a much simpler design far less likely to fail due to combat damage. In the European theater which is about the only theater The English care much about, it was the P 47 thunderbolt that had the most aces because it brought those pilots back when they were hit by enemy attacks. It was much more likely to bring back the pilots. Spitfires and mustangs were superb aircraft, but a lot more of their pilots died young or became prisoners of war because the liquid cooled engines couldn’t take combat damage. Everybody knows this story.
@@CuriousDroid thank you so much for this video. I red the book of the RR crecy.
I think the crecy didn't secced also because the wrong decision of the british government to push for gasoline instead of diesel cycle. Ricardo tryed to prompt the diesel was better, (he actually invented this engine as diesel) but they do not heard him because they thoght it was a problem having two kind of fuel on the airfield, but hironicly when the jet engine was introduced thay had to take two fuels as well. Anyway it was to late and the jet was winning against the propeller at that time and the supersonic age was coming. More and less the same happened to Napier Nomad, another great english engine, in this case the lesson had been learned and it was a diesel, working on jet fuel also, unfortunately despite its good performances and low comsuption it was too complex.
I hope you will post a wideo on Nomad and Deltic. Thank you very very much and forgive my english I am Italian.
@@steveperreira5850 very unapriated comment. And so true, I hope others come back around and read it!
Thanks...
The draughtsmanship in these engine designs is exquisite.
Yes, I imagine they liked a good draught after work...
My consistent consumption of British content allowed me to internally pronounce that properly the first time I read it
@@PronatorTendon hahahahhhaa
And here I am in 2021 getting sketches on post it notes to fabricate hydro Station parts...
@@agauld3212 This is why engineers gotta put the foot down to upper management
I've never heard of the RR Crecy. Every day's a school day. Superb overview.
"We just need another 6 months of development time..." - Every engineer ever.
And quite often they are proved right...
@@waynegilbert9504 it depends very much if they have not encountered development issues. More importantly that the engine is born "right" as was the case of the Merlin that despite usual problems had only very few "teething problems" that was quickly solved, something that cannot be said regarding the formidable Napier Sabre IV engine; that had been principally delayed by protracted problems and slippages encountered in the development of this engine...
"3 months maybe, 6 months definitely."
@@jeff119990 I have said that more than once.. :-)
@@paoloviti6156 My experience with development issues is that if they don’t turn up during development they appear during deployment and cost 50 times more to fix. The Merlin is a vastly simpler engine than the Napier Sabre, development of which was started with a very incomplete understanding of the sleeve valve technology - as illustrated in the case of the RR Crecy design. Of course, all of these died quickly when the gas turbine became a feasible reality.
You have no idea how happy this video makes me! There has been so little information on the crecy on the interenet, and finally someone decides to compile all of it to a compact, yet very informative video. Thank you so much Paul!
Small correction: The Stuka was the Ju-87. The Ju-88 was a twin-engine conventional bomber.
And luftwaffe pilots and ground personell named it the "Dreifinger"
Small? as bad as Do-87.
Just a sidenote, the Ju-88 was capable of divebombing. However, I agree that he was very likely talking about the Ju-87.
@@Ibikyo1 correct but the Ju 88 was not capable of dive bombing as the Ju 87 as it was too stressful for the wings so it was stressed for a 45° diving angle...
Good pick up
An unsilenced merlin at full chat is only marginally less loud than this shirt. ❤️
What?
YESSSS it is
Merlins always had ejector exhaust stubs. No nanny panby silencers for them.
You think it's that loud turn ya Belltone down Gramps! That shirt be pimpin! Also, awesome it would be to have an OG Rolls Phantom with one of those engines stuffed under the bonnet!
Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.
Paul's Curious Droid channel reminds me of when the History channel on TV used to be good and you would actually learn about history with their great content, plus they never had someone with the eye blasting shirts as paul does either.
Until they embraced "Ancient Aliens"
Modern fighter: "I will hide from AA with stealth."
WWII fighter: "I WILL SCARE AWAY THE AA WITH THE SCREAM OF MY ENGINE!! BLOOD FOR THR BLOOD GOD!!"
Lol awesome comment. 👌
As someone who works as a designer/drafter, I'm very impressed with the hand sketched isometric drawings of these old engines. Super detailed and complex.
If an engine survived, it would certainly have been made into a vehicle in Jay Lenos collection
Your right! I could see Jay and his crew trying to recreate one TBH. Would be great content.
its in my transit van
And we would be able to hearing running in Bakersfield!
Yeah, Jay sure is rich enough to do it!😁
Rumor has it that Randy Grubb found one and is making a Motorhome around it that looks alot like an aircraft/duesenberg boat tail inspired vehicle like everything else he builds and yes Jay Leno has first dibs on it.
The sound of a Merlin at full song is goosebumps inducing.
Imagine the sound of a 12V92TT coming from a P-51. It would have been astounding.
Nothing can beat the sound of a or multiple supercharged Merlins.
When i hear a merlin starts up they give me goosebumps!
@@-CLUMSYDIYer- agreed cannot wait for the airshows to restart.
@@dogwalker666 to be fair i haven't been to one in years. Such a shame i do miss them!
Correction.... Merlin had 4 valves per cylinder, some of the later engines had sodium cooled exhaust valves...
Indeed. Modern F1 engine practice uses multiple poppet valves and extremely "oversquare" bore to stroke ratios to get about 2HP/c.i.
The Ford GAA was an all aluminum DOHC motor with 4 valves per cylinder. Ford wouldn't make another motor with this technology until 1992
I believe they all did - the sodium filled exhaust valve was developed in the US in the late 1920s/early 1930s.
Also, the Griffon was not a Merlin derivative.
@@dbmail545 as a modern f1 engine has less than 100 cubic inches in displacement and its horsepower is about 800. It has nearly 10hp/ ci
Came here to say the same. It's also a single overhead cam with angled rocker arms to manage the multiple valves.
Excellent. Just as I’m reading a book on the Merlin, Griffin and related engines. Which leads me to wishing for a video on Whittle and the development of the jet engine.
Yes please!!!
Highly underrated guy, forgotten by a lot of people.
(Americans, we invented the spark plug, jet engine, pivoting tail canard on X1, aircraft carrier etc... Err no you didn't )
@@dave_h_8742 The Germans might argue with you...
And don't forget Hans Joachim Pabst von Ohain
“JET - Frank Whittle and the Development of the Jet Engine” by John Golley isbn 978-1-907472-00-8 is a good one. Also “Not Much of an Engineer” by Sir Stanley Hooker goes into Whittle a lot as Rolls Royce, lead by Stanley Hooker, took over the jet engine work of Whittle. A lot of that is in the book.
The Crecy was also overwhelmed by the contemporary development of the turboprop, which is lighter and far less mechanically complex than a piston engine.
That was my first thought in the section about the power recovery turbine for civil use - it was squeezed out by jets for the military and turboprops for airliners.
An aircraft engine more powerful than the Griffon? That's just Crecy.
ba-dum-tss
Get out
@@Neb_Raska :(
No....Mad.
Napier Nomad.
In 1916, the RAF R.E.8. flew with a 13 liter V-12 turning out 150 horsepower. A couple of decades later and THIS was in the draft.
What I wouldn't give for a Q&A session with those engineers. Simply amazing.
Always loved the old 2 stroke Detroit diesels. So loud. Converting diesel and air into noise and smoke.
Peter Wright Me too. I drove many Detroit powered trucks. I can only imagine what
a RR Crecy would sound like at full RPM
2 stroke dd are not sleeve valve....you guys sound like tyler at indiana diesel, he is a dum dum
Excellent video Paul. Harry Riccardo is unsung hero. I never knew about the Crecy engines, sleeve valves etc. Absolutely brilliant
Glad you enjoyed it
I'd love to see a modern sleeve valve 2 stroke.
I'd love to hear one(with ear pro, of course. My hearing is permanently damaged from racing unmuffled 2-stroke motorcycles)
Pollution. 2 stroke is HIGHLY polluting due to incomplete combustion. Even 4 stroke V12s are being phased out soon.
@@SF-li9kh this doesn't burn oil.
@@SF-li9kh You're speaking of standard moped and lawnmower motors whose major contribution to pollution isn't the incomplete combustion (there are ways to improve that btw) rather it's the necessity to add oil to the fuel/air mixture.
Those 2 strokes use the pistons movement to suck in fuel/oil/air mixture into the crankcase and up to the inlet ports, which means you cannot suck up oil, pressurize it and guide it through crank bearings like a 4 stroke.
So adding oil to the mix is how this problem is usually tackled, but of course the downside is, you don't want oil in your fuel air mixture but that's just where it has to end up, and get burned and expelled through the exhaust all the same. This causes a significant odor and a blue-ish smoke and is not environmentally friendly at all.
The sleeve valve doesn't seem to have the same issues. Mixture gets forced in same way as in a 4 stroke, and out similarly by the pressures induced by the moving piston and the ports in the sleeve allowing the pass through. So here it's not needed to add oil to the fuel/air mixture.
But it does raise an interesting question. How is the oil film between the sleeve and the cylinder lining as well as the film between piston and sleeves accomplished? I'm guessing a separate oil pump?
@@ta22stcoupe I don't know if links are available here, but on the wiki page there is a cout throu picture of a real engine wich has what at least to me looks like it could be external oil rims in the cylinder walls on two points of the outher passage.
Sleeve valves also don't have valve springs, so no valve float at high rpm.
Called it bounce in my day and adding another inside the bigger one sorted it out.
True. But the also have more rotating mass so reaching those high rpms would be nearly impossible.
That problem was solved in F1 with pneumatic springs. Sleeve valve engines have a lot of friction, both from the sleeves and the gearing that drives them.
There have also been gear driven values. It's not competitive today due to more mass and higher service intervals (modern springs are more reliable because everyone uses them and so much r&d has been done)
Sleeve valve engines are also real oil burners.
Look up the Napier Nomad to see where that sort of thinking ultimately led.
2-stroke diesel, with a huge turbocharger that could produce useable thrust. The test engine were reliable getting over 3500hp at a ridiculously meagre fuel consuption. Then the added an intercooler, and then stuck an afterburner on the back of the turbo! Madness, but it got the power to weight down to 0.83lb/hp. And the test horsepower was around 4100. There is a great write up in LJK Setrights book "The Power to Fly", a history of the piston engines used in aircraft.
@@sadiqmohamed681 I found it in "Some Unusual Engines" by Setright.
@@donaldasayers Another good book. I should look for a copy. I haven't read it for a very long time. I used to have "The Power to Fly", but it disappeared a couple of decades ago. I spent more than 10 years looking online before I found one I could afford. Good copies are into hundreds, and there was a mint edition fo £1,400! All Setrights books are collectible.
@@sadiqmohamed681 Technically, it would be better to describe it as a gas turbine that used a 2 stroke diesel as a gas convertor. If you follow Chatterton's work you will see why.
It was just too complicated, two engines in one, required a spark ignition to get it started, but the real problem was the delicate Biers variable ratio coupling. Had some unusual internals, since it was a two stroke, the con-rod little end was a slipper bearing, the con-rod big end bearing shared the same journal, there was no big end cap just a couple of small rings to top stop the rods from falling off the journals when the engine was at rest or starting. Pressurized coil cooled piston crowns of martensite (AFAICR), the list of design features goes on. the Nomad 1 was far more complex than the Nomad II, however complex does not mean advanced.
The Napier Sabre engines on a test stands were clocked at 5500 hp at a capacity of 36.65 litres. That's also pretty impressive!
And a less powerful version was put into a Hawker Fury prototype (that would eventually become the Bristol Centaurus-powered Sea Fury) to produce one of, if not the fastest piston-engined combat aircraft ever.
That came up in Setright’s “The Power to Fly” but it’s actually not true. I can’t even find out where he got it from because he didn’t get it from Napier. Both Calum Douglas and the late Bill Gunston poured cold water on the claim, Gunston with mathematical formulae and Douglas with a mechanical explanation. Douglas says that the Sabre’s sleeve valve made it less open to development than a conventional poppet valve engine. The reason is the pressure exerted on the sleeve, making it expand in an already close-fitting block.
Sleeve valves had plenty of advantages, including but not limited to lower noise and high installed base power. What it didn’t do well was boost, which was the best way to achieve higher torque at the time. AFAIK, the highest power achieved by a Sabre in service was about 3,200, though 3,500 has been claimed.
@@thethirdman225 Douglas book is the shizzle.
@@kiwihame Have you read it, you lucky dog? It sounds like the bomb. I haven’t got it yet but he’s in a couple of excellent UA-cam presentations. It’s on the list but it’s rather pricey! Still, I suppose you get what you pay for...
If you chopped of the massive supercharger and replaced it with turbos, could a sabre by squeezed into a spitfire ?
You are the best source of information. I love your videos, they are great quality documentaries that you narrate very nicelly!!
I'm shocked he hasn't broken through million subs, I was expecting to see at last 4M up there, honestly one of my faves.
thanks for this video, will be spending the rest of the day trying to find out more about it
Another terrific subject, about which I knew relatively little. But the quest for very high power to weight ratios, the seeking for alternatives to the traditional poppet valve system, two stroke engineering, and not last the modular approach to engines, leads to the Napier Deltic. And I hope that you'd consider looking Into this remarkable machine.
The same company that made the actually operational high-performance sleeve valved engine you mentioned, the Sabre, made this engine, and I think that many of the advanced propulsion engineers who worked on the first project were involved in this machine. And the Sabre wasn't the only one to reach operational state (in the Typhoon and Tempest), but so did the Deltic, although post war in the Royal Navy's Motor Torpedo Boats. The difference was the continued viability of the piston engine over the gas turbine in marine installations gave it a life that aeroengineering did not.
Another fascinating parallel is a late stage development of the Deltic was to act as the initial stage of a combined-cycle decoupled compressor for a gas turbine second stage, I think for English Electric.
The late-war innovation in UK engineering is a hard thing to get your mind around, and much of it no longer exists in service. Not so the Deltic, which is still in use.
I am not impartial: my dad was an engineer for Napier after the war; he worked as an engineer apprentice on the project to put the Deltic in the Royal Scot, and also worked too on Royal Navy ships that were Deltic equipped before being sent to Canada to represent Napier in its dying stages. Rolls gets the glory, and the Merlin was the mainstay of the war. But Napier's lost and forgotten history is complex, full of innovation, and in every way remarkable. It'd be nice to see some of that showcased by your consummate presentation and research skills.
Most of all, the Deltics, with three crankshafts and no valves, were just the kind of things you oughta love, and like nothing else.
Damn, this thing was EXTREMLY powerfull
I didn't even know that this magnificent engine existed! It's a shame that none of the prototypes still exist. Awesome video!
FINNALY SOMEONE KNOWS ABOUT THE CRECY
Very enjoyable - never heard of this engine, so now I have some reading to do!
There were significant problems with sleeve valve engines, apart from the little you mention. No 1 is metallurgy to make the sleeves in a way that thermal expansion differences between cylinder/sleeve/piston are acceptable, second is horrific oil consumption, and from that plug fouling from the oil on the cylinders. There are also very high power losses from the friction between sleeves, cylinders and positions, quite apart from the drive gear. Weight is another issue. These issues delayed the sabre engines from going into production/service for more than half of WWII.
There's a lot of info in Calum Douglas' book, The Secret Horsepower Race. This covers piston engine development on Both sides in WWII. Highly recommended for engine nerds.
It did not delay the Bristol Hercules or Centaurus much, both sleeve valvers.
The comet cilinder head looks very similar to the pre ignition chamber used in F1 engines
Yes that was Ricardo's invention and its used on high speed diesel engines and others
Rotary? You mean radial! Rotary is something completely else. ;-)
Yes, I meant radial, my bad
Long live wankel
@@TrumpsEarBandage not Wankel rotary...
Look up World War 1 rotary.
The radial had the pistons stationary with the shaft turning.
The rotary had the shaft fixed and the pistons spinning to aid cooling.
@@PrinceAlhorian got it thanks, but still long live wankel 🤪🤪🤪🤪
@@PrinceAlhorian Yeah, piston rotary engines were crazy shit.
It is not a "rotary" engine it is a RADIAL engine.
Yeah, and what is called the rotary, Mazda engines, Wankel engine, is a rotor engine, something was lost in translation! The rotor engine, the crank was stationary and the crankcase rotated! Crazy design, must had been impossible to balance!
Rotary aircraft engines had a stationary crankshaft. The entire cylinder case rotated around it.
@@joshiek7839 Not rotary radial.
Rotary is the wankel engine.
And I suppose the one in the sopwith camel where the crankshaft was fixed to the fuselage, and the piston blocks rotated along with the propeller, if you want to be pedantic.
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 it’s not being pedantic that’s what they were called. A Wankel engine is a Wankel engine. It’s only colloquialism that it became a rotary engine.
@@joshiek7839 A radial is not a rotary. Radials were not called rotaties.
placing 8 of these engines vertically, and in a circle, would make for a pretty powerful disc shaped drone.
I think that crosses the line from drone to full-on helicopter.
@@joshuahadams well two inverted helicopter blades on top and below could feed the downward airstream through the engines cooling them and feeding them air to work with for the rotors in between them.
That’s when weight and fuel storage come and slaps you
@@DMSrunit or turn electric and use the entire hull for generation to f power.
@@TheTrumanZoo one you start converting your losing power to efficiency issues and heat. Cool concept thought
Remind me of what happened to the Nuvistor. A vacuum tube the size of a transistor, and able to operate at UHF frequencies... it arrived just too late. The nuvistor was a technological wonder, but it was a vacuum device at the time when "Solid State" was considered to be the future.
Thank you for the video Mr. Shillito, I greatly appreciated it.
Regards,
It would be interesting to see what a 2-3.5 liter displacement 4-6 cylinder version of this engine could do today. With that power to weight ratio, even the 2-3.5 liter displacement may be a bit much for many smaller cars today. I never cease to be amazed at what we've developed and then lost/forgotten and then try to recreate the wheel.
throw that in a car with todays tech to back it up & i wouldn't be surprised if it went up to 2.5-3hp/cc tweak some stuff to get it to be a high rpm machine & i think you may be trying to figure out how to actually get the power onto the road....
Somewhere, I hope someone is tinkering with this idea for the fun of it.
1 off engines with no interloopin parts at all with other designs is crazy expensive and it still will be a sprinter engine
@@mrpicky1868
I don’t think anyone is trying to produce this engine, not even for nostalgia sake. Today’s jet engines are better than any piston engine will ever be. If a prop is needed, a turboprop engine (which is still nothing more than a jet engine turning a prop) is still better than any piston engine. Sorry, my man. Piston engines are still in use but not for high speed military or civilian applications.
@@leroyjenkins4811 well there’s heavily modified piston engines for air racing, like the voodoo mustang with a 3000hp griffon, they race them in the Reno air race, it hit 531mph fastest piston aircraft ever, so there are some out there would be cool to see this in that application
@@dieseltruck9638 Question just like they modify Mustangs do they also do that with P40's as well like putting Supercharged engines in them?
Very interesting new information to myself. Interesting to know what was in the pipeline but never made production.
UK developed a second jet engine, an axial flow jet at the Metropolitan Vickers factory near Manchester. It flew in the Meteor in 1943. The Development prototype was known as the J1 and the J2 the version flown. It went on to become the saphire.
Perhaps this story could be told and how it all came about.
In less than 15 minutes, I got an education on a few aspects of engine technology and history!
Until today, 6/3/2021, I never heard of this engine. Also, I never knew much about the cylinder-sleve-valve design! INCREDIBLE!
Whoever said that education can't be fun??
The Merlin Engine had four valves per cylinder.
Also, the saber engine was used in the Tiffy and in the early Tempest. Most of the problems had been delt with and it was rated 2400 BHP.
Thank God someone clarified the 4 valve heads of the Merlin !
Imagine if the sleeve cylinder was brought back for car engines
Some do, but mostly its done for aftermarket 1000hp engines.
Would have the same fate, internal combustion engines are done, they'll be gone in a decade, so it makes no sense spending any money improving them. They are being replaced by electric motors at an exponentially accelerating pace.
Apparently the F1 engine development eclipsed the sleeve-port power levels by the 90's. I think complexity of manufacturing was the insurmountable problem, and extremely short stroke engines with multiple poppet valves were a cheaper solution.
@@andrasbiro3007 there isn't enough cobalt and lithium to make every vehicle on the road today electric. Not even close. Just like piston aircraft are still being built, there will be a place for ICE's in the foreseeable future.
Sleeving a block is more of a requirement when power eclipses a certain amount. Sleeving doesn't add power... F1 probably uses different alloys to not require sleeving and use much different designs. Most power gains are from forced induction.
Hilarious that the Brits named the engine "Crecy." That's a big "Up yours very much" to the French.
I don't get it. Can you please explain the context of the word?
@@remliqa Comes from the Battle of Crecy where the British flattened the french even though they had twice the number of soldiers (British 10-16k, French 20-30k) and also suffered massive losses:
British losses = 40-300
French Losses = At least 4,000 killed, including 1,542 nobles
So quite cheeky to use that name :)
@@ATomRileyA strictly speaking it was the English versus France, as Britain was not formed until Scotland and England signed the act of union in 1707. Battle of Crecy was 1346.
@@tristacker That would come as quite a surprise to Julius Caesar, who invaded “inland Britain” (Britannia pars interior) in 55 BC.
@@markhamstra1083 Britannia was the name the Romans gave the geographical island not the name of the people who inhabited it. Britain or Great Britain or the United Kingdom did not exist as a political entity until 1707. At the time of Crecy there was England with Wales as a province, and Scotland which were separate nations.
One of the few sites where the comments equal the videos or posts. A very enjoyable experience every time I watch one of these episodes.
Paul, I love your channel as a whole, but my tastebuds are royally tickled when it comes to your aviation videos, especially the WWII stuff. Bloomin’ marvellous! Thanks for what you do.🙂👍🏻
Someone should put that engine in a modern propeller plane and fly it at an air show
God if someone found one of the original test Crecys; that would be on a level of recovering the Ark of the Covenant, LOL.
Imagine what Mike Patey could build if he got his hands on one of these!
Some serious wizardry would take place
A Crecy.... but with nitrous!
The important question is, can he put it on a Wilga?
I'd tune it up as far at it would go (possibly run it on pure methanol) and put it in a p51 racer. Win the reno air race unlimited class hands down.
Another _single-seat blender,_ of course. I don't think his wife wants to ride anymore.
Someone with lots of money and curiosity may come along and make one of these. I would pay for just being able to hear it run. Great story. Thanks.
It called "Detroit Diesel V12 Engine"
It doesn't rev as high as 3000 rpm (only 2400 rpm). But you definitely can hear the surreal growling sound out of it. Like modern V8 muscle car
The mention and sketch of the precombustion chamber with two spark plugs (6:27) is obviously the inspiration for the Mercedes F1 power plant wherein a pre chamber is used to get full combustion in a very lean gas/air mix. Funny thing about modern "breakthroughs" and how often the engineering has been inspired by an earlier engineer's efforts.
Let’s build one
There never was a Rolls-Royce 'Griffin'!. It was called Griffon, after a bird of prey (Griffon vulture) as all RR piston engines were...
I blame HP, probably thinking of the mythical creature
named after birds, turbine engines were named after rivers...
Yes and not "Griffen" as displayed incorrectly.. sloppy.
Never heard of the Crecy before but I've always wondered why the 2-stroke wasn't developed with sleeve valves. A shame there are no survivors or even film footage.
Another great video, thanks.
A very educational video. None of my aircraft books mention this engine at all.
It would have been nice to know the hp/lb as well as the hp/in^3 performance relative to the other engines. That's much more important for an aero engine. Also I love the name "Crecy". The British used longbows there.
If it had been perfected around 1941 then we could've possibly seen it in later model Spitfires and Mustangs.
But they would have needed drop tanks just to cross the English Channel due to the Crecys enormous fuel consumption.
doesn't seem like it would be useful even in 1941 since its fuel consumption was very bad according to what we know anyways, so it would only have been good for 1940 at best
Most informative thing I have ever found on the Crecy. Thank you for this. Based on the written descriptions of its sound, I took to calling the Screechy. It would have been shattering.
Your videos on Rolls-Royce products are always interesting. I would love to see one on RR helicopter engines such as the Gem
I'm a Yank and I know the Merlin engine. It powered the Hurricane, Lancaster bomber, the legendary Mosquito, and even the Supermarine Spitfires
I guess you weren't listening that's what he said in the video.
The mustang, some later p40's and even some ME109 fighters after the war (Swiss and I believe Spanish)
A detuned variant was used in tanks (RR Meteor)
@@kieranh2005 You're on it. The P-51 was arguably the best user of the Merlin (again I'm a Yank;)
It's crazy how far we have come. They were aiming for 1hp per cubic inch as a gold standard. That's the equivalent of a 5 liter V8 making 300hp or a 2 liter I4 making 120hp.
This is where many go very wrong. An aircraft engine has to have many features including power to weight ratio. Hp per litre has nothing to do with it. Break horsepower per litre is important for other applications but not an aircraft engine.
@@julianneale6128 *Brake
In many ways we have not gone far at all. The BRM V16 designed in 1947 (with input from Rolls Royce) achieved over 600 hp from 1500cc or over 66hp per cu. Inch - very comparable to the output of the current F1 engines when their hybrid elements are removed from the equation. As has been said, aero engine requirements are entirely different to automotive needs.
@@-DC- haha thank you!
Gotta remember that this is at 3k rpm, partly due to the size of the thing. A modern 5l v8 would be more like 6k rpm, so expect double the specific power output just based on the rpm difference. Considering this, and the materials of the day, it was a pretty lofty goal.
I cannot imagine the sound this engine would have made
Being a 2 stroke, with those rapid exhaust cycles it would have howled like nothing else
That Ricardo "Comet" cylinder head with the pre-combustion chamber is essentially the original Honda CVCC idea, although they fed it with a magic carburetor and a third tiny intake valve. They eventually got it to work without the prechamber by clever gasflow management (i.e. Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion).
Right, you are. I had to do a word search for "CVCC" to find your comment. Thank you.
@@alext8828 - You're welcome.
The name let it down obviously.
Oh look, a gift for my insomnia
Brett hope you are doing better and this gift from Curious Droid is not just a time wasting UA-cam, but one you will actually learn something from.
Completely mind blowing. Good topic, good story telling, good footage, good editing, all together a high quality video.
Fascinating, I had never heard of this engine until now. I like the level of technical detail in the video, just the right amount to satisfy the gearheads without scaring off everyone else.
Hey Paul, what are your thoughts about the declassification by the pentagon of the UFO files?
For 70 years, every photo and video is still filmed on a potato? Very sus
@@NathansHVAC So, what about the ones filmed with very advanced equipment by highly trained fighter pilots? You know, the ones that moved in ways that no known earthly aircraft can move? Pretty sure that's what they're referring to.
It's weird how frequently that UFO releases are timed to coincide with the pentagon taking heat for something else. Such as Arms to certain middle Eastern countries
Distraction. Eyes on audits.
How I wish some clever engineer would find that engine interesting enough to take on the task and try to recreate and perhaps, complete the design. Would be a proper salute to the original designers and the engine it self, to see it complete.
Using current manufacturing technology and materials, this would not be a particular problem. But it would be a solution to a problem the existed 80 years ago and would have little value today. Apart form making one hell of a noise :-)
@@waynegilbert9504 Go and see Riccardo Consultancy in Shoreham with a large wadge of cash and they will probably build you one.
@@johnmurrell3175 No doubt about it, hence my comment.
When you have people gathering in droves to watch (and listen to!) a motor strapped to a cart you know it has to be something special. I'm pretty sure even Jay Leno has a Merlin in his massive collection.
He does.
Very good video .
The the final development of the Napier Saber achieved 5,000 HP on test with water injection.
The Saber was a sleeve valve H24 used in the Hawker Typhoon and Tempest fighter / bomber.
The turbo charged four stroke spark ignition engine has proved to be the best solution for high performance.
The turbine has been the answer for aviation as it is powerful very reliable with the current high temperature alloys.
Wanted to write the same
Would like to see a piece on the news Rolls Royce micro nuclear reactors :)
RR keep this very quiet as even the idea of nuclear power brings the greenies out in force. www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
@@waynegilbert9504 I know and it's insane. Nuclear power is greener than grass !
@@waynegilbert9504 I love how it works on "junk"fuel as well that isn't weaponised.
"... that made the Merlin look simple by comparison ..." - oh, lordy. There was nothing simple about the Merlin.
At the Pima Air Museum there is a Bristol radial sleeve valve engine cut away and set up to run electrically in slow motion so you can see everything and how it all works. It is _stunningly_ complicated. Trust me: no mechanic would EVER want to be responsible for _that_ piece of kit if a turbojet was an option...
Thank you for all these amazing videos!
As an amateur aviation history buff, How have I never even heard of this engine??????
is this the engine that could've saved the Westland Whirlwind...
No, way too big. The Whirlwind was built (very tightly) around the RR Peregrine (which was a step below a Merlin in size). Given that it was estimated that the Crecy was too much power for the Spitfire airframe, it's a guarantee that it would be too much for the Whirlwind. In fact, they did some estimates for the _Mosquito_ and thought the Crecy would be too much for that plane, of all things!
Almost as depressing as watching the demise of the TRS2. 😢
I first became tad enamored with a 2-stroke engine when introduced on the job to Detroit 4-valve, 2 stroke industrial diesels.
Back in the 1980's they were competitive and sounded great with that 'doubling of RPM' sound effect, popping twice as often....it was a scraper, still basic dirt collecting/transferring machine on many earth moving jobs but the 2 stroke is long gone.
Divebomber with the Jericho trumpets was the Ju87 not the Ju88 ;)
Agreed , I was looking to be first to that correction but you beat me, well done.
Upvote if you like the shirt!
It could be heard 5 miles away, mmm just like my wife
This was amazing! Never heard of the Crecy. Thank you for your time and efforts on this!
I also like the fact that you included the engine's approximate sound.
THAT would also scare the living daylights out of anyone just doing basic maintenance if the Crecy were to be in production...
GEEZ... Working on an engine that screams like Jericho trumpet is no joke.
Also would have scared the Germans including their fighters aces at the noise and power the engine has
The Bourke engine has always interested me, designed and built by Russell Bourke in the 1920s, as his answer to a simpler Areo engine, though they only ever seem to make it to the test stand, I have read of an account of one being fitted into a 30s ford V8, and blowing the gear box, some were fitted as out board motors, the beauty of the Bourke Engine is it can be set up so multiple units can be added on one behind the other.
The side to side movement of the sleeve was incorporated (and I forget by whom originally, perhaps Charles Knight) to prevent scoring of the sleeve and/or grey iron casting by the repetitive up and down motion so the oil pumped onto those surfaces would maintain a more uniform distribution. Complex creations these, as stated in the video.
I also read somewhere, the memory of which also escapes me, that the Martin Baker MB 5 prototype was being considered as a possible recipient for the Crecy.
That cut-away illustration at 5'-58' is amazing, I created many illustrations over the years, but that one for it's time was a Gem !!. Thankyou poster.. I would like a copy of that.
Man that sound is amazing!!! Merlin and radial engines sound sooo good
I wish I could upvote Curious Droid videos multiple times. 🙂👍
First time I've ever heard of this,amazing
I worked in an office at a smaller airport with a fantastic view over the entire runway where 2 Mustangs took off almost every day and I loved the sound of these engines. Till today I can identify every Mustang buzzing around. A pity that there is no recording handed down for that engine.
It would have been a treat to see or hear a 2 stroke napier sabre H24 engine
I've got the Rolls Royce book on the Crecy. It's a pretty good read - they go into Ricardo's initial philosophy behind the engine, the problems the ran into during development (cooling the undersides of the pistons and the small end bearings of the connecting rods come to mind), and future developments (the turbo compounding was mentioned, as well as advanced studies, one of them involved scaling the engine down and housing it in a duct). Rolls Royce were even designing a fighter to use it in - it was to make use of abundant P-51D wings and landing gear, and got to the point of a mock-up fuselage. The engine was to be behind the pilot, who would be perched up behind the spinner (think of a P-39 with the pilot even further forward - apparently a LOT of people were thinking along similar lines towards the end of the war, and pretty much all jet fighters have this configuration). What would a Crecy-powered fighter have been like? Look at the Westland Wyvern and the PA-48 Enforcer - both were turboprops with much more power than a Merlin, both were actually ground attack aircraft and both weren't particularly fast (less than 400 mph). The Wyvern was huge (Douglas Skyraider size), the PA-48 a converted Mustang. I think they would have used the extra power for more payload rather than for extra speed or climb performance. If they designed a high speed fighter they would have quickly run into propeller limitations - the fastest prop fighters were only hitting 490 mph (at altitude) on 2000+ HP, and even with 5000 HP they'd probably hit some limit around 530-540 mph. Jets were already a lot faster than the P51H, the DH Hornet, the Hawker Sea Furyand the Spiteful. Ricardo's company (by the same name) still exists, by the way - I attended a talk some years ago, the presenter talked about all the stuff they were working on (the most interesting was an engine that would change from a four stroke to a two stroke on the fly, when you needed more power. He said the main problem wasn't controlling the valves - it could actually even be done with camshafts, the main problem was changing from a stoichiometric mixture to an air-rich one when transitioning to a two-stroke. I suppose you could do it with fuel injection).
Great video Paul. I'd never heard of the Crecy; what an amazing engine! Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
An interesting thing about the sleeve for the Crecy was that there were only ports in them for the inlet, which was near the bottom of the cylinder. The top of the sleeve uncovered the exhaust ports during its reciprocating motion. This caused problems with the longevity of the sleeves.
Why did it need sleeve valves at all? Why not follow the Detroit/EMD design of their two-stroke diesels that have cylinder ports for intake and four valves per cylinder for exhaust? I have a Detroit 6V92 in my bus, and it can produce for marine use almost 500 HP from only 9 liters. Such a design is simple, robust, and very efficient. Mind you, opposed-piston diesel engines are even simpler than Detroits (no valves at all, no heads), and have been used in aircraft. Then of course you end up with the Deltic if you take that design to its ultimate limit!
@@icenijohn2 Ricardo's development of the sleeve valve was based on the poor quality petrol at the time and that the exhaust valve would cause detonation. By the time the Crecy had come around the petrol was of higher quality and octane, and the sodium filled exhaust valve had been invented. The sleeve valve did offer a chance at using lean burn with specially shaped combustion chambers that would not be possible with poppet valves.
so nice to find one and get it running
6:26 that’s fascinating. What’s amazing is that only 5 years ago Ferrari made a similar pre-ignition injector to improve their F1 engine performance.
It’s Wild to think that they were already thinking along those lines in the 40s
Thanks, that's a lot more detail than I ever heard before on that engine.
As a motor-head, I wish I could see one, but that will never be.
Thank you.
It continues to amaze me how it can make an interesting youtube video, to tell the story of a little known and largely forgotten airplane engine. Keep it up!
At 11:45 it is stated that Crecy No. 12 used a "shaft driven, exhaust gas turbine blower." The photo appears to show an exhaust gas blower (turbocharger) at the top and rear of the engine. It can't be driven by two methods. This was an addition to No. 12. And yes, a shaft driven supercharger below it.