Great video Jago, very detailed! I work at the museum and in the past I was both a train driver and tour guide on the Mail Rail. Here are some additional details for those interested (which I'm sure Jago left out on purpose for being too nerdy) 1) While the trains were in operation, 2 sections of track ahead of the train were powered and 1 unpowered behind the train. So therefore trains were always, in essence, 2 sections apart. The way to track the trains was actually quite simple. A lever attached to a switch... As the train went by, a small piece of metal protruding from the train's side would flip the switch. There was also a failsafe system detecting changes in current between the tracks. Ironically the only crash that happened on the Mail Rail was in the small section where the modern tourist trains run. This was due to a train tipping over and the section not showing as occupied. Two more trains crashed into this tipped train, one coming down from the depot and one making its way up. 2) The buttons used to send the trains once they were on the platforms were called cherries or cherry buttons (due to the fact that after pressing these buttons, a cherry looking warning light would shine red). Mount Pleasant, being the largest station on the network, had three stopping points with cross-overs and multiple cherry buttons. 3) The reason why the 1980s stock is called 'Greenbat' is because it was a merger of two companies used to build the trains, Greenwood and Batley. 4) Rathbone place, mentioned in the video, is now Facebook's London HQ. 5) Towards the closure of the railway, a parliamentary inquiry deemed the Mail Rail to be 4 times more expensive per mile than simply having vans above ground. 6) Mail Rail also used to stop at Liverpool Street station. The access door (appropriately red in colour) is actually located as you walk into the accessible toilets from the main concourse opposite platforms 10-12. 7) The main way to transport mail to surface level was actually, incredibly long (up to 300ft at Paddington) conveyer belts. Later, in both the 60s and 80s, lifts were installed at most stations to make the process more streamlined.
I remain unconvinced by the vans being cheaper, but there was something about newer sorting offices being further east and west as the patterns of mails deliveries changed.
I think Middleton Railway, Leeds, still has a Greenbat locomotive- being a rather large electric one used in steelworks for hauling consists of raw materials and other steels traffic
Mail Rail shut down after I left Royal Mail Public Affairs. But we used to take opinion formers on runs quite often. Our boss, Alan Williams, was a rather an enthusiastic supporter of the operation, as he was of the TPO service. It blows my mind that Mail Rail, TPOs and Post Buses no longer exist. What were they thinking?
@@highpath4776 I suspect that a great deal of the twentieth (and early twenty first) century can be explained by the relative inexpense of petroleum. Fewer direct labor costs for oil drilling vs. coal mining. Oil is energy dense, which makes it profitable to ship long distances The US government massively subsidizes oil extraction and refinement, and has made many diplomatic and military choices based on securing stable access to oil. (I'm an American, so I'm criticizing myself here.) Without the ability to transport items long distances for low costs, globalization doesn't happen. If we change the cost of petroleum, a whole lot of the last hundred and twenty five years turns out much differently.
My late father worked at Mount Pleasant, they did move passengers, postal workers needing to get between offices in a hurry usually. It was generally frowned upon, but Dad told me once the bigwigs tended to "look the other way". I asked him if he'd done it and he smiled and refused to say.
In 1988 I used to work in a business called hi-fi surplus store that was next door to Marylebone High Street post office and at about 3:30 in the afternoon the wall used to vibrate in the basement stockroom as the train went by!
Chicago! Since no one else has brought it up, the Chicago Tunnel Company went bankrupt in 1956 and the network was abandoned in 1959 and largely forgotten. On April 13th of 1992, a piling being driven into the Chicago River for bridge work pierced it, flooding the network and in turn the basements of buildings formerly connected to it, as well as utilities vaults and the Chicago Pedway. Quite a mess.
I saw a movie from the 1950s recently on UA-cam which had those abandoned tunnels in the plot towards the end of the movie (the crooks tried to use them to make a getaway).
When I was about 14 my dad, who worked at Paddington Post Office, took me down to the post office railway. I dont remember much, just a large screen with lights on, that showed where the trains were, and a bank of large levers. This was maybe about 1976 - 1978. I remember the PHG in charge (Postman Higher Grade), let me pull one of the levers, and a car pulled into the station to be loaded or unloaded. Bloody ingenious.
I was lucky enough to visit Mount Pleasant as a kid in the 1980s with some fellow train nerds, and see Mail Rail while it was still in action for post. It was in the red livery so must have been after 1986, but not long after. Of course we all wanted to go on it, and were disappointed we couldn't. I could barely contain my excitement when I found out a couple of years ago that it was now open to passengers. I went on it by myself, then took my teenage kids along, who, it must be said, didn't quite share my level of enthusiasm, but it was still a fun day out. They've done a good job of making it a bit more than just a ride on a very small train - I recommend it to anyone who watches this channel...
I worked on a cosmetic upgrade to the original Greenbat power units in 1987 (it wasn't just painting the cars red as you suggest). I was working for a deign consultancy called Hop Studios, we created a wooden pattern on top of one of the power units then ran it through all the tunnels behind a battery car to make sure it fitted (that was an interning Saturday!) The pattern was cut up and used to fabricate glass fibre moulds for the body panels (coincidently the glass fibre work was made by the company who built the car for the original (1980's Batman film) then we spent several weeks in the Mail Rail workshop below Mount Pleasant sorting office constructing the new bodywork. You have images of the updated units at 7:19 in your video. Great project, very interesting to get involved in the history and technology of the railway, shame it closed!
A wonderful look at Mail Rail. During my time with Public Affairs at The Post Office Corporation, we used to take “opinion formers” on little journeys. We had carriages with plastic domes to accommodate our guests. It’s quite amazing the service no longer operates. I remember, during my time, there were plans to allow Oxford Street stores to deliver goods via the service. Of course, that never happened. Just before I left The Post Office, I was responsible for organising the “official” openings of the new rail sorting offices that were being served by trains in and out of the Princess Royal Distribution Centre. I would organise a train hauling heritage stock to collect “opinion formers”, MPs, Peers etc., from a London station then travel to the new Royal Mail facility. We would be greeted by THE FIRST CLASS SOUNDS, a jazz band led by Digby Fairweather - 3 CDs were actually issued by The Post Office in the 1990’s, one of which was called “Recorded Delivery” - then an opening ceremony would take place followed by a buffet lunch. My last event was the new depot at Bristol Parkway. I believe the locomotives carried a unique name plate, usually “The Flying Postman”. After I went, so did the TPO service and I believe the movement of mail by rail was cut back too? Actually, I remember taking a delivery of a leaflet intended for the general public, to be displayed in post office counters. It explained how The Post Office had invested £300 million in the new rail service. Only there was a typo and it actually read; “we are pleased to announce we are moving the majority of mail from rail to road”. I remember calling the printers and telling them to pulp 2 million leaflets. The worst part was that the leaflet had been read and approved by some very senior people, including Alan Williams the Director of Communications and “The Sage of Effinghan Junction”.
Pity the architects of the road transport switch were not run over by their preffered transport,I have no doubt many others since have been.I lived in a suburb of Glasgow from 1967 we had a local post office.There was a post box outside the house and over twenty five years or more the service was faultless. Then it was privatised,our local office and sorting office closed and the staff disappeared. The delivery service for parcels which had been pretty well without glich became known throughout Glasgow as Parcel Farce. Many companies I dealt with switched to independant carriers. SAD, so much for Ideaology.
In 1963 my family emigrated to Australia from Northern Ireland We spent one night in London on our way to Southampton and I vividly remember as an 8 year old staring out of our hotel window and being fascinated by all the little red postal vans coming and going from the Mount Pleasant post office across the road. Little did I know what was going on underneath it. Great video
As a child I imagined that what became Mail Rail ran under London pillar boxes and when I dropped a letter in it somehow went straight down into a waiting train. Silly me. We all know now that carrier pigeons collected the letters.
My grandad used to work for Royal Mail and I remember going to a big Christmas party when I was a kid which included a trip on railway to see Santa! I must have been about 5 but I'll always remember it
As a Postal worker here in Nova Scotia (and let me state once and for all that working for the Post Office is NOT a contradiction in terms...thank you!!) you have just added one more thing to my personal 'Bucket List' of things to do in London when I can finally get the chance to visit in the (hopefully) not-too-distant future. And you don't have to ever worry about me 'Going Postal'; that's an American term. Here in Canada, we form discussion groups!!!😁
I worked at Rathbone Place and Paddington sorting offices between 1985 and 2004 sadly now both demolished. Although I never had a duty with Mail Rail I'd on odd occasions have to go down to pick up work.
Twenty odd years ago I photographed and filmed the railway for the NRM. After about an hour I said to my colleague it’s so dark and gloomy down here I would have thought it compromises health and safety. She replied “ have you thought about removing your sunglasses”!
My Dad was a massive railway enthusiast and this was the last outing I had with him before he died. Good memories. A well organised museum and quirky railway!
They should bring this back, it seems like a great idea to get some traffic off the streets of London tbh. Also I love that in one of the stations there was a dartboard on the wall! Imagine telling someone you played darts on the tube, they would never believe you!
@@highpath4776 I do! I read somewhere that they were a code of sorts. When large companies bought stamps in bulk they would add the perforations to stop staff stealing them (or at least to provide some evidence if they were caught).
I'd be somewhat surprised if this happened because it would have to be compatible with current sorting & transport equipment. Mail sacks are pretty much gone afaik and have been replaced by trolleys, and I think these might not fit the tunnels when placed aboard the trains. So It's a major rebuilding job.
Was so glad I got to see this in late 2019 before [gestures vaguely at everything]. A visit to the Postal Museum including a ride on the Mail Rail was included as part of the London Pass tourist access card and was a great way to spend a lazy afternoon after a morning of climbing to the top of St Paul's Dome and the Great Fire Monument.
Presumably if the enabling act of parliament specifically forbade carriage of passengers, then it required a revised act of parliament to allow passengers to be carried on it for the visitor experience that now runs on a portion of it?
How wonderful it was to hear mention of "Ivor the Engine". That being said we are perhaps the last 2 people to remember the little engine from Wales. Thankyou - Jago the Tube!
Thanks for the video. Shame that the Railway closed. I quite like the idea of using it for freight, or maybe DHL could have taken it over for parcels traffic. Did you know that Munich once had a post office railway. Built in 1910, it ran underground from the Hauptbahnhof to a sorting office in Hopfenstrasse. Only 400m long, it was built to 45cm gauge and powered by electric locomotives with overhead wires. In 1966 due to the construction of the S- Bahn tunnels, it was rebuilt with a new route and changed to 3rd rail . In 1988 it was closed and the mail went by road. I don't know if the tunnels are still in existence.
It wouldn't surprise me if they are still there, used for cable runs. Chicago's old freight tunnels do carry cables, as do London's Mail Rail and London's former hydraulic pipes.* * I'd bet money that London's old hydraulic utility is already on Jago's to-do list of videos somewhere.
The set at the Beeches Light Railway is still safe and sound! I saw them on a visit there a couple of months ago. It is part of Adrian Shooter's private collection there alongside the Darjeeling B class locomotive and a selection of other locomotives and replica Darjeeling coaches. They were due to move with Adrian to a new home elsewhere in the country where a new garden line was set up, but think Covid and other factors have got in the way.
Excellent as always and full of history about London. I love these Jago videos about trains, in the same way that I love John Rogers 'Walks Through London' and I feel they really complement each other. Thanks Jago.
Fascinating! 🌟 4:45 Pavlovian reaction! I raced around my flat looking for my phone until I realized… Thanks for the vicarious trip. My nephew and I are 6’4” so we totally wouldn’t fit. The dimensions on the Mail Rail site give the “seat to canopy” size of the carriages as 87cm, and the distance between my ample seat and my bald skull is 94cm. Could I even stand up in the tunnels?
The mileage stats between services can be incredible.... trying to remember the Intercity 125 intervals ... wasn’t it something like first million miles ‘running-in’ then normal service every 5 million miles? I’m sure someone will remember better than me. Lovely video - perfect Sunday viewing. Keep up the great work 😀👍
With such a short interval betwixt trains I am surprised to see that they found the time to play darts, @4:09. Unless this was the method used to determine which house number that train's post was to be delivered, much quicker than using the numbers on the actual envelope!
I believe it was not just mothball but kept in fully operational condition with empty trains being dragged by one of the battery locos to keep everything going - there was an article either in The Times of the Guardian before the museum plan was put forth
And who can forget, Mail Rail appearing in a film. Bruce Willis, Hudson Hawk. Portrayed as the Vatican Postal system. Apparently actual Mail Rail staff in costume.
Evan Evans is a South Wales brewery and still going strong. As for the Post Office Railway the oil and rubber brigade won in the end. And when Royal Mail gave up on the TPOs 'they did not find the savings they were expecting'.
I visited the line twice, once on the day that Thameslink opened because I used that line on its opening day to go to Farringdon from Herne Hill, and again not long before closure. The first time they were even doing their own motor rewinds in the workshops, but this had stopped by the time of the second visit. The long platforms were divided into three sections for, I think, letters, packets and parcels, but only letters were being carried at that time. Sadly, the mercury arc rectifiers had gone by that time. I remember that I was quite surprised to see it operating during the day, I had always assumed that it was only used at night. Not only was Mount Pleasant the only station where visits were allowed, but I have mever even seen photographs of any of the others. I remember seeing mail bags being dropped down a chute through a trapdoor at a station, but do not remember if this was at Liverpool Street or Paddington. Having seen it actually working, somehow wisiting it today and riding on part of it just doesn’t appeal to me.
The mail would arrive on a lift between platforms 8 and 9 at Liverpool st. Quite busy on nights, I found Liverpool st quite shocking features. Many homeless alcoholics drinking and playing penny up the wall. Ladies of commercial affection entertaining customers on the mail sacks on there way home from the back of Kings X to Southend on sea. Not forgetting big Mary the PC, who revelled in rousting gentlemen from the conveniences on Platforms 1 and 2,. Things are so sanitised now.
One of the best films you've posted for a while. Well done Jago. One of my many jobs was working up to Christmas in Crawley's Post Office sorting office. One of the jobs was unloading General Post Office sacks at Crawley station. (This was before GBF [General British Fannying] split BT from Royal Mail). It was brief, but very hard, work, every hour or so. It was also the last thing Crawley station's bay platform was ever used for. The platform is still there, but less than 1 in a thousand passengers will notice it.
Six miles an hour is not a brisk walk. A brisk walk would be 4 miles an hour, 6 miles an hour would be running for most people, or jogging for Mo Farrah.
A brilliant video that deffo gets my stamp of approval. I have heard about London's mail rail before and the idea of it has intrigued me. I'll have to visit the postal museum at some point.
Every time I hear 'Mount Pleasant'. . . 🎵Walking 'round the room singing "Stormy Weather" At 57 Mount Pleasant Street Well it's the same room, but everything's different You can fight the sleep, but not the dream 🎵
well they are not that recent. W, E, N and S for a while went back to WW1 where new and younger employees needed to know where roads that had similar names would be
With all due respect sir. Voltage vs current. Starting at 3.52. One applies voltage (electrical pressure) to the track. The load (train motors) then "draw" current to do work, against the impedance (dynamic resistance) of the motors. In the stations (4.09), the potential (voltage) drops to 150 V, thus causing the train to draw less current and slow down. Yours sincerely, an electrical engineer. 😁
The stations were on a slightly higher elevation to the track causing cars to slow entering stations . Braking was applied by switching off track in front of car. Causing breaks to apply and car sliding to a stop
The Post Office Underground railway was a favourite feature of the Eagle Comic (you'd have loved it). As I was a regular reader I've always felt a sort of ownership of it and felt sad when it closed.
I always either learn something or have a good laugh at one of your 'footnotes' - (a play on words you mutter- we love them jago), in this one I had no idea they had tried a pneumatic system
I went on one of the walking tours recently. Would thoroughly recommend! I have a load of great photos of the mount pleasant station (from outside a train) with decent lighting if you're interested
The Postal Museum, which includes Mail Rail, is one of London's hidden gems. I say hidden as it is a bit off the tourist trail. If only there was an underground station nearby...
I took the tour of the disused Mail Rail years ago, before the museum and heritage railway. It inspired me to write a set of novels in which vampires took up residence in the Mail Rail tunnels underneath London. Very nice video! Well done.
The power units of one of the two trains that went to Launceston have been used to build the power bogie for a diesel-electric railcar. The second train still exists and can be seen in the museum.
I am so old I have done 30mph in Central London in an Austin Cham.Whats more the London Coppers then did'nt bat an eyelid at the daft Scots geezer in the old army jeep
Nearly all the vincinty of vids completed. Still need a little one on British Museum Station on the Central Line. And maybe even a walk around Mount Pleasant, some interesting 1930s buildings as you go west toward the top end of Southampton Row parallel to Theobalds Row
All your videos make me smile but in this case, the title also made me smile (For the Sir Terry vibes, not the idea of a worker going on a murder spree)
Terrific video. Now I want to have a go on the Mail Rail, next time I visit London. A lot of interesting aspects, including at 4:07 that essential piece of mail delivery - the dartboard.
I am intrigued as to the sound of steam locomotive whistles along with telephones with a pre mobile years, ringing in the background of your commentary, Jago ! I think we should be enlightened ! But a great video as always !!
Very interesting video 👍 The Post Office Railway / Mail Rail was one line which even the keenest railway enthusiasts probably knew very little about when it was open.
Superb Jago, your dry informative narrative is wonderful. I was a huge fan of Ivor the Engine so the brief reference to this nugget of a children’s tv series was especially welcome. I couldn’t agree more with your recommendation to take a ride on this historic railway, it’s huge fun for all ages but maybe not for anyone who remotely suffers from claustrophobic tendencies. Thank you.
I was thinking the same thing with parcel delivery and online shopping, but I wonder if new electric delivery vans will rule that out in the long term.
I know someone who works for a well known delivery company that has plug in hybrid vans. He assures me the charging cables are still in the plastic bags they came in
I read somewhere that the Chicago tunnels were supposed to be for telegraph cables but the builder decided that a light railway would be a good idea even if he did not have the permits for it! Allegedly he ended up paying the city a large "franchise fee" ( aka bribe) to continue running.
I suppose the tunneling activities would be using a #train' anyway so simply 'tidying up the track' and adding stations etc would be pretty easy (compared to digging a big hole in the first place).
Nice to see the VR (Victoria Regina) Post Box at the end of your interesting video. Won't be long before a few 'C III R' King Charles ones appear, no doubt! The Republic of Ireland, kept their Royal Mail boxes when separating from Britain in 1922 and quite a few VR, 'E VII R' and 'G V R' ones have survived, painted green, especially in Dublin.
Absolutely fascinating, all sorts of things here that I didn't know about the erstwhile Post Office Railway, including the sheer intensity of the operation. Good that it's been mothballed in case it's needed again, though it sounds as if mail transport patterns have altered substantially. Interesting that Paddington and Liv St were on the line but KX, St P, Euston and the Southern termini weren't.
I remember reading something a while back saying that a company was retrofitting some of the old class 321s from Greater Anglia into parcel carriers, so maybe we'll see a return to parcels on rails yet
partly there is still mail on the rails in Europe. Trailers/containers are already driven /hoisted onto low flatbed traincars who have a fixed schedule and routes between logistic hubs in Europe. Like once sea/rail freight it just has been containerised
@@Tevildo I remember using Red Star in the late 1990s from Preston. I read very convenient as you could drop off your package later than the road-based couriers would collect, and the package would still be delivered the next day.
@@ThermoMan Delivered, perhaps. Deliverd intact to the right location, less likely. :) But my experience was mainly in the mid-80's, things might have improved in the runup to privatization.
I worked just across the road in Roseberry House from 1987 - 89. Amazing to think all this was under my feet. I took my daughter on Mail Rail in 2018. She wasn't impressed. i'd recommend it to anyone who loves history & trains.
2:40 "It should never carry passengers in order to avoid the possibility, however unlikely, of a government organization competing with the Underground". Ha, I thought passenger safety would have been the big reason for not letting them on.
Great video! As you say, it almost seems like we could do with such a system again. Minor point of pedantry: pneumatic railways (of which a few were toyed with at the time) aren't _really_ very similar to the vactrain/hyperloop concept. The former used pneumatic force as its motive power, while the latter would evacuate its tunnels mainly to reduce drag. These old pneumatic railways are actually much more like the pneumatic delivery tubes still common in hospitals and drive-through banks, though of course such systems are much smaller.
A pneumatic tube system transported mail between post offices in New York City between 1897 and 1953. It ran almost all around Manhattan and thus was over 20 miles long. The tubes were only a few feet below street level. The system even reached Brooklyn by using the Brooklyn Bridge. Few people around today remember anything about this system, but there is a Wikipedia article and other Internet sources.
"has my stamp of approval" - has said approval stamp one of those 'you can only use this stamp once' codes embossed on it? Excellent explanation of the secret system under London which most of us never heard of until recently!
So glad you made this, As a kid I had a ladybird book with this in it, as a child in the 1990s it used to fasinate me. By a teen I was going raving and one of the reasons it got rediscovered was because party goers broke into the line! Funny how you mention how it might be re-opened. I hope it is! I must take a ride on it one day!
Great video Jago, very detailed! I work at the museum and in the past I was both a train driver and tour guide on the Mail Rail.
Here are some additional details for those interested (which I'm sure Jago left out on purpose for being too nerdy)
1) While the trains were in operation, 2 sections of track ahead of the train were powered and 1 unpowered behind the train. So therefore trains were always, in essence, 2 sections apart. The way to track the trains was actually quite simple. A lever attached to a switch... As the train went by, a small piece of metal protruding from the train's side would flip the switch. There was also a failsafe system detecting changes in current between the tracks. Ironically the only crash that happened on the Mail Rail was in the small section where the modern tourist trains run. This was due to a train tipping over and the section not showing as occupied. Two more trains crashed into this tipped train, one coming down from the depot and one making its way up.
2) The buttons used to send the trains once they were on the platforms were called cherries or cherry buttons (due to the fact that after pressing these buttons, a cherry looking warning light would shine red). Mount Pleasant, being the largest station on the network, had three stopping points with cross-overs and multiple cherry buttons.
3) The reason why the 1980s stock is called 'Greenbat' is because it was a merger of two companies used to build the trains, Greenwood and Batley.
4) Rathbone place, mentioned in the video, is now Facebook's London HQ.
5) Towards the closure of the railway, a parliamentary inquiry deemed the Mail Rail to be 4 times more expensive per mile than simply having vans above ground.
6) Mail Rail also used to stop at Liverpool Street station. The access door (appropriately red in colour) is actually located as you walk into the accessible toilets from the main concourse opposite platforms 10-12.
7) The main way to transport mail to surface level was actually, incredibly long (up to 300ft at Paddington) conveyer belts. Later, in both the 60s and 80s, lifts were installed at most stations to make the process more streamlined.
I remain unconvinced by the vans being cheaper, but there was something about newer sorting offices being further east and west as the patterns of mails deliveries changed.
I think Middleton Railway, Leeds, still has a Greenbat locomotive- being a rather large electric one used in steelworks for hauling consists of raw materials and other steels traffic
Mail Rail shut down after I left Royal Mail Public Affairs. But we used to take opinion formers on runs quite often. Our boss, Alan Williams, was a rather an enthusiastic supporter of the operation, as he was of the TPO service.
It blows my mind that Mail Rail, TPOs and Post Buses no longer exist. What were they thinking?
@@highpath4776 I suspect that a great deal of the twentieth (and early twenty first) century can be explained by the relative inexpense of petroleum. Fewer direct labor costs for oil drilling vs. coal mining. Oil is energy dense, which makes it profitable to ship long distances The US government massively subsidizes oil extraction and refinement, and has made many diplomatic and military choices based on securing stable access to oil. (I'm an American, so I'm criticizing myself here.) Without the ability to transport items long distances for low costs, globalization doesn't happen. If we change the cost of petroleum, a whole lot of the last hundred and twenty five years turns out much differently.
Any discount vouchers for nearby residents? It’s so close to me but I really don’t want to shell out £50 to go down the road
My late father worked at Mount Pleasant, they did move passengers, postal workers needing to get between offices in a hurry usually. It was generally frowned upon, but Dad told me once the bigwigs tended to "look the other way". I asked him if he'd done it and he smiled and refused to say.
In 1988 I used to work in a business called hi-fi surplus store that was next door to Marylebone High Street post office and at about 3:30 in the afternoon the wall used to vibrate in the basement stockroom as the train went by!
Chicago! Since no one else has brought it up, the Chicago Tunnel Company went bankrupt in 1956 and the network was abandoned in 1959 and largely forgotten. On April 13th of 1992, a piling being driven into the Chicago River for bridge work pierced it, flooding the network and in turn the basements of buildings formerly connected to it, as well as utilities vaults and the Chicago Pedway. Quite a mess.
I saw a movie from the 1950s recently on UA-cam which had those abandoned tunnels in the plot towards the end of the movie (the crooks tried to use them to make a getaway).
"Its got my stamp of approval..." lol. Frankly, I didnt think youd post that. But hey, letter rip.
When I was about 14 my dad, who worked at Paddington Post Office, took me down to the post office railway. I dont remember much, just a large screen with lights on, that showed where the trains were, and a bank of large levers. This was maybe about 1976 - 1978. I remember the PHG in charge (Postman Higher Grade), let me pull one of the levers, and a car pulled into the station to be loaded or unloaded. Bloody ingenious.
I was lucky enough to visit Mount Pleasant as a kid in the 1980s with some fellow train nerds, and see Mail Rail while it was still in action for post. It was in the red livery so must have been after 1986, but not long after. Of course we all wanted to go on it, and were disappointed we couldn't. I could barely contain my excitement when I found out a couple of years ago that it was now open to passengers. I went on it by myself, then took my teenage kids along, who, it must be said, didn't quite share my level of enthusiasm, but it was still a fun day out. They've done a good job of making it a bit more than just a ride on a very small train - I recommend it to anyone who watches this channel...
I worked on a cosmetic upgrade to the original Greenbat power units in 1987 (it wasn't just painting the cars red as you suggest). I was working for a deign consultancy called Hop Studios, we created a wooden pattern on top of one of the power units then ran it through all the tunnels behind a battery car to make sure it fitted (that was an interning Saturday!) The pattern was cut up and used to fabricate glass fibre moulds for the body panels (coincidently the glass fibre work was made by the company who built the car for the original (1980's Batman film) then we spent several weeks in the Mail Rail workshop below Mount Pleasant sorting office constructing the new bodywork. You have images of the updated units at 7:19 in your video. Great project, very interesting to get involved in the history and technology of the railway, shame it closed!
Very interesting story. Thanks for sharing!
A wonderful look at Mail Rail.
During my time with Public Affairs at The Post Office Corporation, we used to take “opinion formers” on little journeys. We had carriages with plastic domes to accommodate our guests.
It’s quite amazing the service no longer operates. I remember, during my time, there were plans to allow Oxford Street stores to deliver goods via the service. Of course, that never happened.
Just before I left The Post Office, I was responsible for organising the “official” openings of the new rail sorting offices that were being served by trains in and out of the Princess Royal Distribution Centre.
I would organise a train hauling heritage stock to collect “opinion formers”, MPs, Peers etc., from a London station then travel to the new Royal Mail facility. We would be greeted by THE FIRST CLASS SOUNDS, a jazz band led by Digby Fairweather - 3 CDs were actually issued by The Post Office in the 1990’s, one of which was called “Recorded Delivery” - then an opening ceremony would take place followed by a buffet lunch. My last event was the new depot at Bristol Parkway.
I believe the locomotives carried a unique name plate, usually “The Flying Postman”.
After I went, so did the TPO service and I believe the movement of mail by rail was cut back too?
Actually, I remember taking a delivery of a leaflet intended for the general public, to be displayed in post office counters. It explained how The Post Office had invested £300 million in the new rail service. Only there was a typo and it actually read; “we are pleased to announce we are moving the majority of mail from rail to road”. I remember calling the printers and telling them to pulp 2 million leaflets. The worst part was that the leaflet had been read and approved by some very senior people, including Alan Williams the Director of Communications and “The Sage of Effinghan Junction”.
Pity the architects of the road transport switch were not run over by their preffered transport,I have no doubt many others since have been.I lived in a suburb of Glasgow from 1967 we had a local post office.There was a post box outside the house and over twenty five years or more the service was faultless. Then it was privatised,our local office and sorting office closed and the staff disappeared. The delivery service for parcels which had been pretty well without glich became known throughout Glasgow as Parcel Farce. Many companies I dealt with switched to independant carriers. SAD, so much for Ideaology.
In 1963 my family emigrated to Australia from Northern Ireland We spent one night in London on our way to Southampton and I vividly remember as an 8 year old staring out of our hotel window and being fascinated by all the little red postal vans coming and going from the Mount Pleasant post office across the road. Little did I know what was going on underneath it. Great video
As a child I imagined that what became Mail Rail ran under London pillar boxes and when I dropped a letter in it somehow went straight down into a waiting train. Silly me. We all know now that carrier pigeons collected the letters.
"...has my stamp of approval."
Bravo, sir, and a line very well delivered.
I was delighted that you couldn't letter'n opportunity like that slip past!
My grandad used to work for Royal Mail and I remember going to a big Christmas party when I was a kid which included a trip on railway to see Santa! I must have been about 5 but I'll always remember it
As a Postal worker here in Nova Scotia (and let me state once and for all that working for the Post Office is NOT a contradiction in terms...thank you!!) you have just added one more thing to my personal 'Bucket List' of things to do in London when I can finally get the chance to visit in the (hopefully) not-too-distant future. And you don't have to ever worry about me 'Going Postal'; that's an American term. Here in Canada, we form discussion groups!!!😁
10:31 If the notices said "please mind your head" instead of just "mind your head" some genius would have altered it to "fleas in your head".
I worked at Rathbone Place and Paddington sorting offices between 1985 and 2004 sadly now both demolished. Although I never had a duty with Mail Rail I'd on odd occasions have to go down to pick up work.
Twenty odd years ago I photographed and filmed the railway for the NRM. After about an hour I said to my colleague it’s so dark and gloomy down here I would have thought it compromises health and safety. She replied “ have you thought about removing your sunglasses”!
My Dad was a massive railway enthusiast and this was the last outing I had with him before he died. Good memories. A well organised museum and quirky railway!
They should bring this back, it seems like a great idea to get some traffic off the streets of London tbh.
Also I love that in one of the stations there was a dartboard on the wall! Imagine telling someone you played darts on the tube, they would never believe you!
So that's why there were holes in my post!! :o)
@@surreygoldprospector576 Anyone remember the little perforations in some stamps for a while, were supposed to be some kind of a code
@@highpath4776 I do! I read somewhere that they were a code of sorts. When large companies bought stamps in bulk they would add the perforations to stop staff stealing them (or at least to provide some evidence if they were caught).
I'd be somewhat surprised if this happened because it would have to be compatible with current sorting & transport equipment. Mail sacks are pretty much gone afaik and have been replaced by trolleys, and I think these might not fit the tunnels when placed aboard the trains. So It's a major rebuilding job.
most of the sorting offices that used it have closed
Was so glad I got to see this in late 2019 before [gestures vaguely at everything]. A visit to the Postal Museum including a ride on the Mail Rail was included as part of the London Pass tourist access card and was a great way to spend a lazy afternoon after a morning of climbing to the top of St Paul's Dome and the Great Fire Monument.
The least known underground London rail system is The Elstree to St. John's Wood Cable Tunnel monorail
Presumably if the enabling act of parliament specifically forbade carriage of passengers, then it required a revised act of parliament to allow passengers to be carried on it for the visitor experience that now runs on a portion of it?
How wonderful it was to hear mention of "Ivor the Engine". That being said we are perhaps the last 2 people to remember the little engine from Wales. Thankyou - Jago the Tube!
Thanks for the video. Shame that the Railway closed. I quite like the idea of using it for freight, or maybe DHL could have taken it over for parcels traffic.
Did you know that Munich once had a post office railway. Built in 1910, it ran underground from the Hauptbahnhof to a sorting office in Hopfenstrasse. Only 400m long, it was built to 45cm gauge and powered by electric locomotives with overhead wires. In 1966 due to the construction of the S- Bahn tunnels, it was rebuilt with a new route and changed to 3rd rail . In 1988 it was closed and the mail went by road. I don't know if the tunnels are still in existence.
It wouldn't surprise me if they are still there, used for cable runs. Chicago's old freight tunnels do carry cables, as do London's Mail Rail and London's former hydraulic pipes.*
* I'd bet money that London's old hydraulic utility is already on Jago's to-do list of videos somewhere.
This is a "must do" at least one time when you are in London. I did it 4 years ago and it is as interresting as Jago tells us.
So the service's 2003 demise was a snail mail rail fail?
Excellent delivery Jago. Showcases your stamp of authority on the subject. Looking forward to your next post 😁
4:07 Care must be taken when stepping back from the dartboard.
Weird place to play darts, hey?
A first class delivery of a rare package, despatched with humour and understanding.
It certainly has _my_ stamp of approval!
Your comment really sends me....
The set at the Beeches Light Railway is still safe and sound! I saw them on a visit there a couple of months ago. It is part of Adrian Shooter's private collection there alongside the Darjeeling B class locomotive and a selection of other locomotives and replica Darjeeling coaches. They were due to move with Adrian to a new home elsewhere in the country where a new garden line was set up, but think Covid and other factors have got in the way.
Excellent as always and full of history about London. I love these Jago videos about trains, in the same way that I love John Rogers 'Walks Through London' and I feel they really complement each other. Thanks Jago.
Those concluding one-liners just get better and better! :)
You teased this pretty hard. I had no expectation of you making good on it so quickly.
Fascinating! 🌟
4:45 Pavlovian reaction! I raced around my flat looking for my phone until I realized…
Thanks for the vicarious trip. My nephew and I are 6’4” so we totally wouldn’t fit. The dimensions on the Mail Rail site give the “seat to canopy” size of the carriages as 87cm, and the distance between my ample seat and my bald skull is 94cm.
Could I even stand up in the tunnels?
The dartboard on the wall (at 4:08) must have been used to determine when your mail is going to arrive
I noticed that too. Weird place to play darts, right next to a rail line.
I love his Jonathan Pie character too.
The mileage stats between services can be incredible.... trying to remember the Intercity 125 intervals ... wasn’t it something like first million miles ‘running-in’ then normal service every 5 million miles? I’m sure someone will remember better than me. Lovely video - perfect Sunday viewing. Keep up the great work 😀👍
With such a short interval betwixt trains I am surprised to see that they found the time to play darts, @4:09. Unless this was the method used to determine which house number that train's post was to be delivered, much quicker than using the numbers on the actual envelope!
Snail mail rail
And when it finished:
Snail mail rail fail :)
…I’ll get my coat…
I believe it was not just mothball but kept in fully operational condition with empty trains being dragged by one of the battery locos to keep everything going - there was an article either in The Times of the Guardian before the museum plan was put forth
And who can forget, Mail Rail appearing in a film.
Bruce Willis, Hudson Hawk. Portrayed as the Vatican Postal system. Apparently actual Mail Rail staff in costume.
Evan Evans is a South Wales brewery and still going strong. As for the Post Office Railway the oil and rubber brigade won in the end. And when Royal Mail gave up on the TPOs 'they did not find the savings they were expecting'.
Lifts moving post at Whitechappel are Electric traction lifts in rouded liftwells.
Looking forward to your video about Ivor the Engine 👍
‘Pishty-coof’
Jones the Steam.
Never Worked out why Aldwych to Holborn Shuttle could not be run as a Heritage service
I visited the line twice, once on the day that Thameslink opened because I used that line on its opening day to go to Farringdon from Herne Hill, and again not long before closure.
The first time they were even doing their own motor rewinds in the workshops, but this had stopped by the time of the second visit.
The long platforms were divided into three sections for, I think, letters, packets and parcels, but only letters were being carried at that time.
Sadly, the mercury arc rectifiers had gone by that time.
I remember that I was quite surprised to see it operating during the day, I had always assumed that it was only used at night.
Not only was Mount Pleasant the only station where visits were allowed, but I have mever even seen photographs of any of the others.
I remember seeing mail bags being dropped down a chute through a trapdoor at a station, but do not remember if this was at Liverpool Street or Paddington.
Having seen it actually working, somehow wisiting it today and riding on part of it just doesn’t appeal to me.
Your delivery is as ever, first class.
The mail would arrive on a lift between platforms 8 and 9 at Liverpool st.
Quite busy on nights, I found Liverpool st quite shocking features. Many homeless alcoholics drinking and playing penny up the wall. Ladies of commercial affection entertaining customers on the mail sacks on there way home from the back of Kings X to Southend on sea. Not forgetting big Mary the PC, who revelled in rousting gentlemen from the conveniences on Platforms 1 and 2,.
Things are so sanitised now.
Apart from the misspelling of ‘their’ that conjures up quite an image!😮
@@AtheistOrphan Thanks for the correction. Should have spotted it.
One of the best films you've posted for a while. Well done Jago.
One of my many jobs was working up to Christmas in Crawley's Post Office sorting office. One of the jobs was unloading General Post Office sacks at Crawley station. (This was before GBF [General British Fannying] split BT from Royal Mail). It was brief, but very hard, work, every hour or so.
It was also the last thing Crawley station's bay platform was ever used for. The platform is still there, but less than 1 in a thousand passengers will notice it.
Six miles an hour is not a brisk walk. A brisk walk would be 4 miles an hour, 6 miles an hour would be running for most people, or jogging for Mo Farrah.
Awesome story Jago , if I can ever get back to London this will be no. 1 on my list of items to do when there.
A brilliant video that deffo gets my stamp of approval. I have heard about London's mail rail before and the idea of it has intrigued me. I'll have to visit the postal museum at some point.
Every time I hear 'Mount Pleasant'. . .
🎵Walking 'round the room singing "Stormy Weather"
At 57 Mount Pleasant Street
Well it's the same room, but everything's different
You can fight the sleep, but not the dream 🎵
I somehow knew you’d do the postal underground next, can’t think why….
When I visited postal museum the fact that I will remember is that my son was not aware of the recent invention of postcodes
well they are not that recent. W, E, N and S for a while went back to WW1 where new and younger employees needed to know where roads that had similar names would be
With all due respect sir. Voltage vs current. Starting at 3.52. One applies voltage (electrical pressure) to the track. The load (train motors) then "draw" current to do work, against the impedance (dynamic resistance) of the motors. In the stations (4.09), the potential (voltage) drops to 150 V, thus causing the train to draw less current and slow down.
Yours sincerely, an electrical engineer. 😁
The stations were on a slightly higher elevation to the track causing cars to slow entering stations . Braking was applied by switching off track in front of car. Causing breaks to apply and car sliding to a stop
The Post Office Underground railway was a favourite feature of the Eagle Comic (you'd have loved it). As I was a regular reader I've always felt a sort of ownership of it and felt sad when it closed.
The Eagle was were I first read read about it as a nine year old in 1962.
I always either learn something or have a good laugh at one of your 'footnotes' - (a play on words you mutter- we love them jago), in this one I had no idea they had tried a pneumatic system
Short but enjoyable ride and a nice day out
Yet another “First Class” delivery of another interesting package of railway history by Mr J. Hazzard Esq.
I went on one of the walking tours recently. Would thoroughly recommend! I have a load of great photos of the mount pleasant station (from outside a train) with decent lighting if you're interested
The Postal Museum, which includes Mail Rail, is one of London's hidden gems. I say hidden as it is a bit off the tourist trail. If only there was an underground station nearby...
Absolutely fantastic Jago! Loved it!
I took the tour of the disused Mail Rail years ago, before the museum and heritage railway. It inspired me to write a set of novels in which vampires took up residence in the Mail Rail tunnels underneath London. Very nice video! Well done.
It was one of most surprising tale for me, very detailed. Thanks a lot for sharing it Jago!
The power units of one of the two trains that went to Launceston have been used to build the power bogie for a diesel-electric railcar. The second train still exists and can be seen in the museum.
Worked as a postman at the Keb from 87-95 often went down there
And finally, at 0:15, Jago hits Peak Irony.
This video is explained at a great pace about the Postal Railway and not post haste! However, it was a great video, Jago.
This is a stunner of a video, which I am going to watch at least twice more.
It’s great that these days, you can get up to a whole 20mph in central London on a good day!
I am so old I have done 30mph in Central London in an Austin Cham.Whats more the London Coppers then did'nt bat an eyelid at the daft Scots geezer in the old army jeep
Evans the Song, Evan Evans, was the choirmaster of the Grumbly and District Choral Society in Ivor the Engine.
Nearly all the vincinty of vids completed. Still need a little one on British Museum Station on the Central Line. And maybe even a walk around Mount Pleasant, some interesting 1930s buildings as you go west toward the top end of Southampton Row parallel to Theobalds Row
One of those is already in the queue…
Did you know that postage stamps were invented by Mr. Phil Ately?
They offer (or offered at one point) track walks which I’d highly recommend as you get a much better look at all the old trains, machinery etc
I went on that tour a few months ago, and as you say I`d recommend it
This is on my list for places to see and things to do the next time I'm in London, and to paraphrase John Rogers, "*Whenever* that may be."
All your videos make me smile but in this case, the title also made me smile
(For the Sir Terry vibes, not the idea of a worker going on a murder spree)
I keep thinking I should do a video on Raising Steam.
Terrific video. Now I want to have a go on the Mail Rail, next time I visit London.
A lot of interesting aspects, including at 4:07 that essential piece of mail delivery - the dartboard.
Truly excellent content. Very interesting, and of a very high standard of research and production. Well done that man!😁
More Mail Rail videos please!
Fascinating. Interesting to see what went into moving massive amounts of mail. Most people probably have no idea or appreciation for timely mail.
Prior to the construction of the modern passenger carriages I believe at some point there was an ‘inspection saloon’. (I may be wrong).
I took a ride behind one of the battery powered trains when I was an apprentice with London Underground..
Having a Big Wheel and a Small wheel on the pony trucks reminds me of the needed rebuild of some of the Tallylyn Locomotives for track conditions.
I am intrigued as to the sound of steam locomotive whistles along with telephones with a pre mobile years, ringing in the background of your commentary, Jago ! I think we should be enlightened ! But a great video as always !!
Very interesting video 👍
The Post Office Railway / Mail Rail was one line which even the keenest railway enthusiasts probably knew very little about when it was open.
Superb Jago, your dry informative narrative is wonderful. I was a huge fan of Ivor the Engine so the brief reference to this nugget of a children’s tv series was especially welcome. I couldn’t agree more with your recommendation to take a ride on this historic railway, it’s huge fun for all ages but maybe not for anyone who remotely suffers from claustrophobic tendencies. Thank you.
So glad you posted this , certainly has my stamp of approval.
I was thinking the same thing with parcel delivery and online shopping, but I wonder if new electric delivery vans will rule that out in the long term.
I know someone who works for a well known delivery company that has plug in hybrid vans. He assures me the charging cables are still in the plastic bags they came in
@@peedee2221 Well, that's silly, as it's significantly cheaper to run on electricity.
@@qwertyTRiG I don't think the employees were that bothered to be honest
I read somewhere that the Chicago tunnels were supposed to be for telegraph cables but the builder decided that a light railway would be a good idea even if he did not have the permits for it! Allegedly he ended up paying the city a large "franchise fee" ( aka bribe) to continue running.
was that Yerkes ?
I suppose the tunneling activities would be using a #train' anyway so simply 'tidying up the track' and adding stations etc would be pretty easy (compared to digging a big hole in the first place).
@@highpath4776 Yerkes died in 1905 and been in London for some time. Could still have had some influence, I suppose.
Nice to see the VR (Victoria Regina) Post Box at the end of your interesting video. Won't be long before a few 'C III R' King Charles ones appear, no doubt! The Republic of Ireland, kept their Royal Mail boxes when separating from Britain in 1922 and quite a few VR, 'E VII R' and 'G V R' ones have survived, painted green, especially in Dublin.
Absolutely fascinating, all sorts of things here that I didn't know about the erstwhile Post Office Railway, including the sheer intensity of the operation. Good that it's been mothballed in case it's needed again, though it sounds as if mail transport patterns have altered substantially. Interesting that Paddington and Liv St were on the line but KX, St P, Euston and the Southern termini weren't.
I remember reading something a while back saying that a company was retrofitting some of the old class 321s from Greater Anglia into parcel carriers, so maybe we'll see a return to parcels on rails yet
partly there is still mail on the rails in Europe.
Trailers/containers are already driven /hoisted onto low flatbed traincars who have a fixed schedule and routes between logistic hubs in Europe.
Like once sea/rail freight it just has been containerised
Jario, I take it you never actually had to send anything via Red Star. :)
@@Tevildo I remember using Red Star in the late 1990s from Preston. I read very convenient as you could drop off your package later than the road-based couriers would collect, and the package would still be delivered the next day.
@@ThermoMan Delivered, perhaps. Deliverd intact to the right location, less likely. :) But my experience was mainly in the mid-80's, things might have improved in the runup to privatization.
I worked just across the road in Roseberry House from 1987 - 89. Amazing to think all this was under my feet. I took my daughter on Mail Rail in 2018. She wasn't impressed. i'd recommend it to anyone who loves history & trains.
Thank you
Another fascinating video Mr Jago. More please!
2:40 "It should never carry passengers in order to avoid the possibility, however unlikely, of a government organization competing with the Underground".
Ha, I thought passenger safety would have been the big reason for not letting them on.
Great video! As you say, it almost seems like we could do with such a system again.
Minor point of pedantry: pneumatic railways (of which a few were toyed with at the time) aren't _really_ very similar to the vactrain/hyperloop concept. The former used pneumatic force as its motive power, while the latter would evacuate its tunnels mainly to reduce drag.
These old pneumatic railways are actually much more like the pneumatic delivery tubes still common in hospitals and drive-through banks, though of course such systems are much smaller.
A pneumatic tube system transported mail between post offices in New York City between 1897 and 1953. It ran almost all around Manhattan and thus was over 20 miles long. The tubes were only a few feet below street level. The system even reached Brooklyn by using the Brooklyn Bridge. Few people around today remember anything about this system, but there is a Wikipedia article and other Internet sources.
"has my stamp of approval" - has said approval stamp one of those 'you can only use this stamp once' codes embossed on it?
Excellent explanation of the secret system under London which most of us never heard of until recently!
So glad you made this,
As a kid I had a ladybird book with this in it, as a child in the 1990s it used to fasinate me.
By a teen I was going raving and one of the reasons it got rediscovered was because party goers broke into the line!
Funny how you mention how it might be re-opened. I hope it is! I must take a ride on it one day!