well shoot...found this video too late. bought a few route 66 signs and a couple oil company signs i thought were originals. got me with the chipping and rusting. now I know...lesson learned. there are a couple names that are running rampant right now. not sure how i could report them. couple names to avoid: Signs77, mojo_1955, collectibl-48, sheilgriffi_86. bought from them the last couple weeks and judging from some examples in this video, they fit squarely in the fake range. bit annoyed, i'm usually more cautious. I'm trying to fill out a mancave/workshop/content creation area so i guess i got auction happy.
this is a hundred million dollar industry. There are people making millions a year selling these fake signs and have been since the 1980s even before ebay. If the trademarks are dead then your good. If you make fastasy designs that never existed your good. If you never get a cease and desist your good. So their is always loopholes to play around with to stay legal until your not.
The guy you are talking about just did an interview on Matthew Cox crime channel on youtube. He told that exact story. Said fbi showed up about the threat he made
I paid up to get a repop John Deere sign that was really well done, but an original would be thousands and I got the same look for a fraction of the price. I know a real collector wouldn't touch it, but I'm fine with it. With the price of originals going through the roof I've notice that the repops are also going up. What ticks me off are the people trying to scam you.
Repops have their place, sure, but it is the fact that people use them to rip off others, and that the companies and individuals making them refuse to mark them with their own company names or "reproduction" or some other indicator that they are copies/fakes or fantasy items that is the main issue. The fact that some of the companies making them are literally putting the original manufacturer's makers marks on them and reuse to put their own name on them clearly indicates they know full well they are being sold as old and they are making them to supply those criminal sellers. And teh reposps are selling at the source for pennies on the dollar compared what they are being resold for elsewhere.
@@bearhardcorepicker I finished my reply by saying that scammers suck, but it's not that hard to get a little education and a little common sense. When you go to a show and see the same "original' sign twenty times in mint condition you gotta know something is wrong. I don't even look at 30" and 48" gas signs, because I just assume they are all fake. I can't figure out why the honest people at these shows don't call these people out. That being said, with the cost of originals getting so high and the actual quality of the fakes getting better people who aren't rich and who want some cool signs to hang will go with the repops more and more, which will only increase the market for them and also increase the prices for fakes as well. Luckily, it's all about having fun with the search and the interaction with people of like interest. Thanks for the comment and good luck.
Most are listed as "new". Some were donated to a Goodwill and people went cuckoo to grab them. I have bought lots of informational signs like campgrounds, state parks etc from people who get them from auctions and scrap yards. I collect used newer signs most likely replaced due to new (Oregon) ODOT regulations or damage.
I have no problem with people buying and selling used newer signs that were actually made for a specific use but are no longer in service, but the ones coming out of India and China are made to deceive, and many are being sold in vintage categories as old.
I have never bought an illegitimate sign but others have and gifted them to me. I was always gracious but pointed out how they had been duped. I always just hang them up in my partially enclosed grilling house where their fakery is less offensive.
I had a very long paragraph typed out as to what to watch for, but to my chagrin it disappeared when I tried to reply....So, I will just do a video soon on some things to watch for. Keep an eye open for it.
Seems like the ones that are "questionable" are only because the asking prices are sky high compared to the rest. Just because it's over priced to begin with doesn't mean a thing, other then there fishing for a sucker still.
I contacted one of the big sellers of these signs on eBay asking him why all of his adds say nothing about it being a reproduction. His answer was that everyone’s should know that it’s a reproduction. Should know huh? That person will never get any of my business. At this point I’m not sure who is doing the weathering, rusted look on the signs. Are they purchased that way or is it the seller trying to make them look like they’ve actually been used?
There are plenty of fakes coming out of India "pre-aged", and plenty imported by US, UK and other resellers who are "aging" them as well. Whether the factories are aging them as well, I don't know. It is bad enough the factories are adding the old maker's names to them, which is a deliberate attempt at trying to deceive buyers as it is.
I liked your video. The thing is while these signs are reproductions. Alot of people can`t afford the real ones. I have 4 of these hanging up in my garage. They are reproduction as I can`t afford the real ones. They look nice and are high quality. Still are aren`t original. You are right though about Ebay. Its not just signs either. There is a lot of stuff being sold there that isn`t original.
For sure there are lots of sellers selling all sorts of fake stuff in general, and eBay seems to turn a blind eye, unless it is something that a large brand name company goes after them for. I understand some signs in the hobby are unreachable price wise for many collectors, but the signs being produced are being made to deceive just muddies the marketplace. When they are purposely putting old maker's marks on them, it is obvious they are making them to be sold as real to unsuspecting collectors. I wouldn't have as much of an issue with them if they put their own company's marking on it, then it would be easy enough to tell the difference, short of some scammer chipping or obscuring the Indian/Chinese maker's name. The issue of copyright ownership is another matter, but I realize in the end it is up to the copyright holders to chase the makers of the fakes. The main issue, again, is the fact they are making them purposely to deceive.
I agree with you. 1ll be honest I was taken on them. I didn`t pay too much and I learned from it.. I like how they look so I have them in my garage But I do agree with you. I have some original oil cans from the 1930s to 1950s too. Those are a lot easier to tell from the fake/ reproductions .Most of my oil cans still have oil in them too.. Most of them cost a lot less the original signs .Ebay isn`t the same as when it 1st came out. Thats true all the way around with items on there .Ebay doesn`t appear to car what is listed . That is too bad as it doe hurt the market for collectors. @@bearhardcorepicker
There's no antique or collectable that's being sold on ebay that doesn't have fakes, it's almost impossible to buy ancient coins because the fakes are so good.
There are factories in third world countries mainly, primarily India and China, but other countries as well, plus some private US individuals (and possibly/likely other first world countries) who are making short runs of fakes/fantasy pieces. Then there are buyers worldwide who buy anywhere from a few to container loads full, and then pass them off as old, many add bogus stories behind them about how they found them in a warehosue, barn, shed, etc, as well as chipping them and trying to give them an "aged" appearance with chemicals.
My sources are telling me these are all originating from India....are the American sellers just fake antiquing them up and attempting to pass off as real?? Or have the Indians figured out how the make them with patina?
Whats Ebay? Haven't looked at it in 20 years, nothing but junk on there and it's all buy it now with out outrageous asking prices. Hardly any actual auctions anymore. Huge waste of time!!
Hello Sir , here is Jerry Chou , work for Daka enamel signs factory ,The Alibaba store in the second half of the video is our products. First of all, we will never sell fake products. We will explain that the products are new produced by us, and will not mislead customers to say that they are antique. We can indeed make the products old, but we will not say that our products are antique
Do you have legal documents saying you can use the copyrighted names and logos of those companies? If not, your products are illegal in the US, Canada and other countries with those copyrights, including those copyrighted in India.
@@bearhardcorepicker Some of our customers are copyrighted, we help customers to produce, generation processing.Wouldn't say we thing we sell are the collection, we will according to the adornment to sell, you also know that in the United States, Canada and other countries and not everyone can afford a real collection, some people like but can't afford to buy will buy from us adornment, also hope you can understand, just like some people like van gogh's works,But everyone can't afford it, so there will be many copies of it,
@@enamelsignsandthermometers9610 The fact remains that you do not have the authorization from the MAJORITY of the companies whose logos you are copying and making signs of. That fact alone indicates you are doing something illegal. You've just admitted you only have SOME customers who own the copyrights, but those few signs are not the ones we are talking about.
@@bearhardcorepicker OK, I see what you mean. What I want to express is that we are sure to produce new products and sell them as decorations, and we don't want to upset the market of your collection world.
@@enamelsignsandthermometers9610 You are damaging the collecting world seriously. `For example, no company would purposely put false and other enamel sign maker`s marks on signs if they weren`t trying to make them to deceive. Why do you not put your OWN name on the bottom edge of the signs? And by the way, it is also illegal to not put the country of origin on the products being exported to the USA, Canada and other countries.
Please buy a tripod to film. Your shaking makes this unwatchable. By the way it's buyer beware. If someone wants to buy decor and doesn't understand that an actual enamel or any sign for that matter.... Are very valuable. No one thinks they can buy an actual real sign for $40..... Reproductions are in every category....
This is an older video, I've since improved the filming process and use a tripod often. If you read some of the comments under this video, there are plenty of people who have paid antique sign prices for repro signs. That is one of the issues is that they are being sold as old/vintage by the makers as well as less than honest resellers. Plus, they are using copyrighted artwork illegally. It is akin to importing and selling fake desinger products, it is no less illegal. They are purposely making them to deceive collectors, as the makers are not putting their own names on the signs, they are putting the original enamel sign maker's names on them. If they were making legitimate and authorized reproductions, they'd proudly sign them with their factory's name. Not one of the signs coming out that are the problems are marked with the faker's name on the sign.
The problem lies in those who are deceived into thinking they are old and paying accordingly. You would be upset if you bought what you were told is a real Rolex, you paid the real Rolex price, , and it turned out to be a fake. It also hurts the market for real pieces. Criminal activity is being committed by many of the sellers, and also sales of these pieces are potentially funding other criminal enterprises. Those are some of the problems being caused.
Great subject! I’m glad you feel the same way. Buyer Beware!
well shoot...found this video too late. bought a few route 66 signs and a couple oil company signs i thought were originals. got me with the chipping and rusting. now I know...lesson learned. there are a couple names that are running rampant right now. not sure how i could report them. couple names to avoid: Signs77, mojo_1955, collectibl-48, sheilgriffi_86. bought from them the last couple weeks and judging from some examples in this video, they fit squarely in the fake range. bit annoyed, i'm usually more cautious. I'm trying to fill out a mancave/workshop/content creation area so i guess i got auction happy.
Sorry you got stung. You'll now know for next time you encounter the fakes.
this is a hundred million dollar industry. There are people making millions a year selling these fake signs and have been since the 1980s even before ebay. If the trademarks are dead then your good. If you make fastasy designs that never existed your good. If you never get a cease and desist your good. So their is always loopholes to play around with to stay legal until your not.
The guy you are talking about just did an interview on Matthew Cox crime channel on youtube. He told that exact story. Said fbi showed up about the threat he made
Will have to check that video out.
I paid up to get a repop John Deere sign that was really well done, but an original would be thousands and I got the same look for a fraction of the price. I know a real collector wouldn't touch it, but I'm fine with it. With the price of originals going through the roof I've notice that the repops are also going up. What ticks me off are the people trying to scam you.
Repops have their place, sure, but it is the fact that people use them to rip off others, and that the companies and individuals making them refuse to mark them with their own company names or "reproduction" or some other indicator that they are copies/fakes or fantasy items that is the main issue. The fact that some of the companies making them are literally putting the original manufacturer's makers marks on them and reuse to put their own name on them clearly indicates they know full well they are being sold as old and they are making them to supply those criminal sellers. And teh reposps are selling at the source for pennies on the dollar compared what they are being resold for elsewhere.
@@bearhardcorepicker I finished my reply by saying that scammers suck, but it's not that hard to get a little education and a little common sense. When you go to a show and see the same "original' sign twenty times in mint condition you gotta know something is wrong. I don't even look at 30" and 48" gas signs, because I just assume they are all fake. I can't figure out why the honest people at these shows don't call these people out. That being said, with the cost of originals getting so high and the actual quality of the fakes getting better people who aren't rich and who want some cool signs to hang will go with the repops more and more, which will only increase the market for them and also increase the prices for fakes as well. Luckily, it's all about having fun with the search and the interaction with people of like interest. Thanks for the comment and good luck.
Most are listed as "new". Some were donated to a Goodwill and people went cuckoo to grab them. I have bought lots of informational signs like campgrounds, state parks etc from people who get them from auctions and scrap yards. I collect used newer signs most likely replaced due to new (Oregon) ODOT regulations or damage.
I have no problem with people buying and selling used newer signs that were actually made for a specific use but are no longer in service, but the ones coming out of India and China are made to deceive, and many are being sold in vintage categories as old.
I have never bought an illegitimate sign but others have and gifted them to me. I was always gracious but pointed out how they had been duped. I always just hang them up in my partially enclosed grilling house where their fakery is less offensive.
“ Where their fakery is less offensive“ That’s a great way of telling it like it is! ……I feel the same way! 👍
So how can you determine if a sign is fake or real?
I had a very long paragraph typed out as to what to watch for, but to my chagrin it disappeared when I tried to reply....So, I will just do a video soon on some things to watch for. Keep an eye open for it.
ua-cam.com/video/5DcUvftL-vw/v-deo.html
Seems like the ones that are "questionable" are only because the asking prices are sky high compared to the rest. Just because it's over priced to begin with doesn't mean a thing, other then there fishing for a sucker still.
I contacted one of the big sellers of these signs on eBay asking him why all of his adds say nothing about it being a reproduction. His answer was that everyone’s should know that it’s a reproduction. Should know huh? That person will never get any of my business. At this point I’m not sure who is doing the weathering, rusted look on the signs. Are they purchased that way or is it the seller trying to make them look like they’ve actually been used?
There are plenty of fakes coming out of India "pre-aged", and plenty imported by US, UK and other resellers who are "aging" them as well. Whether the factories are aging them as well, I don't know. It is bad enough the factories are adding the old maker's names to them, which is a deliberate attempt at trying to deceive buyers as it is.
Surprising to even find an original on there anymore.
So true.
It’s true they are improving, I know what I’m looking at, and I’ve had to do a few double takes with stuff in person lately!
Ebay could care less.
You got that right
I liked your video. The thing is while these signs are reproductions. Alot of people can`t afford the real ones. I have 4 of these hanging up in my garage. They are reproduction as I can`t afford the real ones. They look nice and are high quality. Still are aren`t original. You are right though about Ebay. Its not just signs either. There is a lot of stuff being sold there that isn`t original.
For sure there are lots of sellers selling all sorts of fake stuff in general, and eBay seems to turn a blind eye, unless it is something that a large brand name company goes after them for. I understand some signs in the hobby are unreachable price wise for many collectors, but the signs being produced are being made to deceive just muddies the marketplace. When they are purposely putting old maker's marks on them, it is obvious they are making them to be sold as real to unsuspecting collectors. I wouldn't have as much of an issue with them if they put their own company's marking on it, then it would be easy enough to tell the difference, short of some scammer chipping or obscuring the Indian/Chinese maker's name. The issue of copyright ownership is another matter, but I realize in the end it is up to the copyright holders to chase the makers of the fakes. The main issue, again, is the fact they are making them purposely to deceive.
I agree with you. 1ll be honest I was taken on them. I didn`t pay too much and I learned from it.. I like how they look so I have them in my garage But I do agree with you. I have some original oil cans from the 1930s to 1950s too. Those are a lot easier to tell from the fake/ reproductions .Most of my oil cans still have oil in them too.. Most of them cost a lot less the original signs .Ebay isn`t the same as when it 1st came out. Thats true all the way around with items on there .Ebay doesn`t appear to car what is listed . That is too bad as it doe hurt the market for collectors. @@bearhardcorepicker
There's no antique or collectable that's being sold on ebay that doesn't have fakes, it's almost impossible to buy ancient coins because the fakes are so good.
True enough.
This is disgusting. Are the sellers making them themselves? How are they able to have so many?
There are factories in third world countries mainly, primarily India and China, but other countries as well, plus some private US individuals (and possibly/likely other first world countries) who are making short runs of fakes/fantasy pieces. Then there are buyers worldwide who buy anywhere from a few to container loads full, and then pass them off as old, many add bogus stories behind them about how they found them in a warehosue, barn, shed, etc, as well as chipping them and trying to give them an "aged" appearance with chemicals.
My sources are telling me these are all originating from India....are the American sellers just fake antiquing them up and attempting to pass off as real?? Or have the Indians figured out how the make them with patina?
Both US sellers and the India sellers are fake antiquing them. There are sellers importing quantities of them to "antique" and resell as vintage.
@@bearhardcorepicker Some are looking pretty convincing these days, techniques have improved, unfortunately.
Whats Ebay? Haven't looked at it in 20 years, nothing but junk on there and it's all buy it now with out outrageous asking prices. Hardly any actual auctions anymore. Huge waste of time!!
Agreed!
Hello Sir , here is Jerry Chou , work for Daka enamel signs factory ,The Alibaba store in the second half of the video is our products. First of all, we will never sell fake products. We will explain that the products are new produced by us, and will not mislead customers to say that they are antique. We can indeed make the products old, but we will not say that our products are antique
Do you have legal documents saying you can use the copyrighted names and logos of those companies? If not, your products are illegal in the US, Canada and other countries with those copyrights, including those copyrighted in India.
@@bearhardcorepicker Some of our customers are copyrighted, we help customers to produce, generation processing.Wouldn't say we thing we sell are the collection, we will according to the adornment to sell, you also know that in the United States, Canada and other countries and not everyone can afford a real collection, some people like but can't afford to buy will buy from us adornment, also hope you can understand, just like some people like van gogh's works,But everyone can't afford it, so there will be many copies of it,
@@enamelsignsandthermometers9610 The fact remains that you do not have the authorization from the MAJORITY of the companies whose logos you are copying and making signs of. That fact alone indicates you are doing something illegal. You've just admitted you only have SOME customers who own the copyrights, but those few signs are not the ones we are talking about.
@@bearhardcorepicker OK, I see what you mean. What I want to express is that we are sure to produce new products and sell them as decorations, and we don't want to upset the market of your collection world.
@@enamelsignsandthermometers9610 You are damaging the collecting world seriously. `For example, no company would purposely put false and other enamel sign maker`s marks on signs if they weren`t trying to make them to deceive. Why do you not put your OWN name on the bottom edge of the signs? And by the way, it is also illegal to not put the country of origin on the products being exported to the USA, Canada and other countries.
Please buy a tripod to film. Your shaking makes this unwatchable. By the way it's buyer beware. If someone wants to buy decor and doesn't understand that an actual enamel or any sign for that matter.... Are very valuable. No one thinks they can buy an actual real sign for $40..... Reproductions are in every category....
This is an older video, I've since improved the filming process and use a tripod often. If you read some of the comments under this video, there are plenty of people who have paid antique sign prices for repro signs. That is one of the issues is that they are being sold as old/vintage by the makers as well as less than honest resellers. Plus, they are using copyrighted artwork illegally. It is akin to importing and selling fake desinger products, it is no less illegal.
They are purposely making them to deceive collectors, as the makers are not putting their own names on the signs, they are putting the original enamel sign maker's names on them. If they were making legitimate and authorized reproductions, they'd proudly sign them with their factory's name. Not one of the signs coming out that are the problems are marked with the faker's name on the sign.
Who cares ?????? If you know they are garbage don’t buy them
The problem lies in those who are deceived into thinking they are old and paying accordingly. You would be upset if you bought what you were told is a real Rolex, you paid the real Rolex price, , and it turned out to be a fake. It also hurts the market for real pieces. Criminal activity is being committed by many of the sellers, and also sales of these pieces are potentially funding other criminal enterprises. Those are some of the problems being caused.