@runner15 Yes, zerg units were fully upgraded, and ultralisk have also a plus +2 upgrade. Mara+Sp has no downside with enough mede and incredible results.
@4rcane yes but the infestors also have other abilities that kind of make up for infested terrans being a little suckish. the fact that they can stop a cluster of units so they can't retreat or micro and make it easy for banelings to steam role the enemy forces in addition a nice bit of damage. Also having an ability that allows them to control any unit for an unlimited time is also pretty powerful.
@xxGoSu yes , bioball stimpacked marines do counter broodlords when controlled correctly. Marauders mow down the broodlings while the marines get microed to kill the broodlords. How many high level player games do you see zerg go broodlords ? You can probably count them on one hand.
@acyu What are you talking about? Zerg was constantly maxed out for most of the game whereas Terran's supply hovered around 100 until Zerg depleted their gas trying to break down T's defenses. Z ran out of gas because *gasp* Z units are extremely gas-intensive! T can hang on using gas-cheap marines and marauders, whereas Z must build Ultralisks, Infestors, Hydralisks, and Banelings. Spamming units when you're that insanely ahead works perfectly for every matchup except for ZvT.
@vynterbone Speedlings wasnt an option with 5 tanks.Im probably wrong but i didnt see this overmicroing by the terran over the zerg everyone saw.The position of the zerg was enough good in any fight,sometimes he throw ultralisks over the ramps and that was mistake but happened only twice.The rest was pretty standard,nice focusing from booth,good positioning.The rest was just mass T1+pdd destroying mass T2+T3.
@timorbit 1 raven could take out 20 BLs if it had enough time and energy considering the BLs can't attack the ravens. but yea, i believe the AT takes up what, 50 energy and the raven has a max of i think 200, sooo that means 4 ATs per raven, 6 ravens x 4 = 24 ATs. 24 is a bigger number than 18 or 20, plus they deal more damage to those broodlings and BLs than most other units. also, i never said his 100 supply wasn't a factor, i just stated he couldnt use BLs much cause of the ravens and marines
@Stuntman8000 Keep in mind that BratOK's units were also upgraded, and he had more than an average amount of medivacs building up energy in between fights.
@vanillacrem3 But he had already produced some infestors and had a MASSIVE income lead. The Muta might have been a problem because of the HSM, if you cant micro them other than a mass ball they are in real trouble there. I really think the important thing here was the fungal growth, stops them dead and gives time to bring in troops and take them out, even if its just muta or hydra. Burrowed hyda might have even been best, fungal and flank, they are all toast, as well as the medevac.
@poobslag yeah but terran didn't have any air counters by then with raven/maurader and PDD will only last for a while. Even if he wanted to tech-switch he wouldn't have the resources to do it.
@vynterbone True only if you consider sending marauders with steampack and setting a pdd good micro.A player in advantage for half the game booth economically (5bases vs 3bases mostly) and by units should win,considering that the zerg didn't do any big mistake.Any antiair becomes useless cause of the pdd, and mara+mede+sp are just invincible in the ground.If all the pro say that mara are too cheap MAYBE something has to be true.
@12etsam Platnium unfortunatly for me but in my general opinion about toss v terra is that they have emp, toss has psi storm. for siege and mara well i typically use air units or i have some coli/immortals and maybe a archon with lots taking the hits. Plus when I see siege I back that shit up if I can.
An epic game! The mentality of each player was decisive. Even when BratOK was low in 2/3 he still chased Mondragon off the field. The opponent surely could have won but many times he turned back and didn't push. What a good watch.
@chabossD Yeah, I thought that too. With so much income and larvae there was no reason why he couldn't have sunk money into air upgrades and made a timely muta switch after one of the army trades in order to wipe out the annoying medevac/raven/viking force, especially against a marauder heavy composition.
@12etsam lolz damn indeed, but i dont group my forces up i keep em in a certain group and such, with my air units i strike from their flanks and my templar are in the back, also if im quick enough i can feed back the ghostsif not ill just drop the storm.
@furikuri52 the thing is, mondragon would engage a battle and win it, but then bratok would bring in reinforcements. mondragon didn't bring in reinforcements, but stayed to fight a 2ndbattle losing the rest of his ultras
@timorbit not only that, but the Zerg had like what 2 bases over the Terran and didn't capitalize that to full effect, plus he could of made so many units to counter the Terran but just kept making so many ultras and not enough of other things
@DininDalael My point is the army compositions...if you are getting more resources than the other player by that much of an amount then the only reason you'd lose if you engage in a very bad spot or just have a really bad army composition compared to what your opponent has. As for scouting i will agree that zerg has it rough compared to the other two races, it seems like overseer is the best bet with the use of changlings. I think zerg need a buff in the scouting department and less micro heavy
@copznrobbas Yes its quite a shame. And just in case anyone misunderstands, I'm not claiming that I could do better. Its really nice to look at it from our point of view where were not having to deal with the stress of managing it all. :P Other then macro, when the Terran Turtles like this, what do you think is the best counter strat? I've seen multiple nydus networks. The Zerg player was able to pop up all over the map, and he was much more mobile when attacking, retreating, responding
Also, as for scouting: Terrans and protoss usually block their base.. Terrans can use scan to scout, protoss can use observers to scout.. What about zerg? A big ass, slow unit that also happens to be your supplies... Scouting for zergs is a pain. Either accept the loss of an overlord or wait 'til you have a lair and upgrade the speed (still risk losing it) or upgrade an overlord to an overseer and still risk losing it. I have a replay of a game where I used ALL types of units and barely won.
@runner15 You arent considering that mutas gets obliterated by mass steam marines+mede, plus mara and marines shares the same upgrades, while switching from ground to air for the zerg would have meant a whole new set of upgrades. Think about it pls, ty.
@vanillacrem3 I see what your saying there. And I think that is a valid point on the condition that a Protoss player that is out macro'd is not able to negate that "out macro" by micro. Do you see what I'm saying? Even if a player out macro's the other, even he has not "out macro'd" him by a certain degree, then macro can negate those extra forces/upgrades/tech, You seem to be suggesting that the degree to which terran can do this is imba. am I correct? Thoughts?
@SweepTheLegYo Its not due to any imbalance. It was Mondragon's fault - he got overconfident - he should've got corruptors to focuspick Medivacs and Ravens. He thought he could just steamroll everything with those max up Ultras without any air support.
@gaggyfish Why didn't he put up spore crawlers to deal with the ravens? Also, his 71 drones could have been used to deal with the vestiges of the Terran forces...
@BeefButcher132 you mean the fact that the Z spent over half of his pop on harvesters so he ended up having a significantly weaker army? He was doing AWESOME with fungal growth, which worked for him all game. But instead of continuing that knowing he's got the T out-expo'd and pinned, he decided to go hydra + VERY FEW ultras vs. mass ravens + MMM. He made a horrible choice in changing his unit comp thinking he needed someway to deal with the medivac + raven when ravens completely nullified hydra
@daaim0 I couldn't agree more, Mondragon had that game won 10 minutes sooner if he had stopped producing Hydras and just gone to Mutalisks. The Ravens would have been destroyed along with the Medivacs and he would have won easily. I also would have liked to see him throw down an extra hatch or two in his main so he could have plenty of Larva to keep his army supplied.
@pigrandom Well Tanks get fixed, so they are less deadly against Zerglings/Banelings and Hydra, so that might allready take a lot of points out, as the Muta/Ling combination is allready quite good against Terran. But i would enjoy a bunch of maps "without" choke points, thats a little strange that all ladder maps have choke points.
@Atexis At a certain point the terran can have a superior army, because it can be a 50% greater army, and therefore able to do more damage per minute than a 6 base zerg.
@petecabrina Mutalisks can easily avoid seeker missiles because they fly faster. Burrowed units would have been irrelevant here since Ravens are detectors.
omfg, what an epic game. Very nice Raven-action. I loved the PDD's especially at the end. The hydras were cornered between two of them and did hardly any damage. So the marauders could kill the ultras no problem. Yes mondragon made small mistakes but so did bratok. For example when his 11 o'clock expansion was attacked and he had two planetary fortresses there he didn't bother to repair neither one of them. He could have killed the zerg-force there. Instead he lost two fortresses and his exp
@sulaji84 Queens at the expos were unnecessary as Mondragon already had enough larvae between all of those hatches to maintain his army. The lack of muta switch was a much bigger mistake, as was maintainining ~100 drones when only ~60 are needed to maintain a maxed Zerg army.
@zan25051 Eh, the vikings do have a 4 second downtime to switch though, and turrets, well yeah their cheap but thier not unlike the protoss cannons, which can target ground and air and is a detector. Along with the zergs spore colonies which compare almost as well minus the stealth detection. And as for nukes, the protoss has a mothership that cloaks everything under it and can make vortex's to temporarily disable units, or mass recall for obvious reasons. The zerg, well honestly idk lol.
@People saying Terran was outplayed: Zerg capped his army to ~100 supply, thanks to all of his useless drones at the end not contributing. He then made projectile units (Hydralisks) against Point Defense Drones. If he had made mass Ultra's instead, after getting rid of some of his drones, he would have been able to pull out a win.
@multidinero You're missing the point. It's not possible in any other matchup to throw away a lead this big no matter how overconfident they get. Only Terran is resilient enough to stay in the game that long when far behind, and only Zerg is defensively vulnerable enough to give up such a lead. A Terran player with 10x economy over the Zerg player kills the Zerg player in a single 1a attack. Same with any other matchup, except ZvT.
@multidinero Are you trying to help my argument or something? The fact that the Terran economy can be near collapse and still allow for a comeback, while Zerg could not possibly do the same in a reversed scenario, is the very definition of imbalance. Terrans regularly a-move 200 supply armies at 100 supply Zerg armies and instatnly win. When Zerg tries to do the same here it turns into a meat-grinder. Can't you see that the one-sided nature of this equals imbalance?
@Enthos2 You meant 2 base terran vs 5 bases Zerg. I totaly agree with you btw, its seriously stupid that Z's too good macro got him over 100 drones (that the needed because of all the bases he secured) and that having that many drones means that you can only get barely like 50 decent units, roachs and hydras taking 2 supplies, not to mention Ultras' supply cost. A Z having a great economy is a Z having a small army, yay for the swarm. I'm a protoss player btw, if anybody cares.
@vanillacrem3 The Terran Army was nearly destroyed by the Zerg. His harvester count was as low as 4 workers near the end and he only had 11 to like 71 Harvesters for the Zerg. at the end. He was left with like 12 units in his army total! That was because of the Raven and it's drones and missiles and turrets. If anything can be said about the Terran battle, the Ravens saved his bacon! BratOk should have died a number of times, but the Ravens saved him repeatedly. That's just awesome composition.
@sidiusolidus wouldn't muta been just as screwed by the PDD usage as hydras? i mean that was the point, zerg had 2-3 times the supply of the terran but PDD just shuts down all of his units
@thorizzle117 Mondragon's forces were ground dominant having hydralisks for anti-air and ultralisks to take care of the rest. Even HD was waiting for Bratok to gg since his forces were dwindling. Vikings were destroyed and only a few medivacs and ravens can handle numerous ultralisk attacks. Mondragon did make a few mistakes especially with the overlord drops. But he did have the economic advantage and the army advantage.
@AmokBR Agreed, Marauders are incredibly strong, and with Stim and Concussive Shells they are just a joke... Remove Stim and make the Concussive shells either a really expensive upgrade or give the Marauders energy which is wasted with each concussive shell launched, when they run out of energy they shoot normal rounds... or something like that
@jmrwacko um, i do believe you should recheck your logic, Broodlords can't attack air. plus all the ravens would need to do is just throw down more turrets behind the BLs, thus blocking them in.
@Str33tSupra you basically need to get psi storm to counter mm, but its sooo high up the tech tree. (i never get collossi b/c vikings kill them absurdly fast.)
@MrAlpruitt That is a a form of imbalance, because in any other matchup if you outmacro them that badly you win no matter how careless you are; that's the basis of Sauron Zerg style in BW. SC2's TvZ is the only matchup in both games where you can somehow squeeze a win despite being outmacroed that hard.
@timorbit if you didnt notice he did tech switch to broodlords and they got owned by auto turrets. Also, both blizzard and many pro gamers have acknowledged that Terran are OP. Go look at Blizzards plans for the first patch.
@vanillacrem3 If we reversed situations, the Zerg army would need to have less harvesters and more Offensive units. The Ravens saved the terran army. You really want to argue for Imbalance, but in the end, the zerg needed to cut drones. His composition was bad for offense/defense but he was great on economic levels. The Zerg army was mismicroed in the end. When the Ultralisks smashed the marauder line, he had a commanding lead. Yet, he got stopped by the Raven PDDs and auto turrets.
@MrAlpruitt It's always a matter of degree, and how that degree compares between different matchups when considering (top-level) players of equal skill. In any other matchup, the mere 2x advantage of 2 base vs 1 base is enough that the 1 base must do massive damage soon or lose. 2 base T can a-move any basic composition (MMM, mech, rine/tank/raven, etc) and kill 1 base Z. By contrast, Z must outplay T even with a 5x advantage. This is clearly one of the ways in which ZvT is imba.
@mireka at one point of the game , bratok had only 5 marauder he was using PDD to defend from hydra and was sniping all those expensive marauders. all he need wer like ~7 to 8 baneling (cheaper than 1 ultralisk) to rape all the marauders, then run zergling in to kill all the scv/mules
even tho the supply was way higher for the zerg... most of that was drones... the fighting forces favored the terran. and with the mules for the terran on gold the income was similar. terran was in the lead for the whole 3rd part
@mastarmz yeah sooooo OP. All Mondragon had to do is pump out mass Mutalisk and he would have steam rolled the Ravens since there was almost no anti air.
What it came down to was lack of fungal growth, Bio ball is so weak to it, and that would have given him a chance for ultras to administer splash dmg on the ball. The game seemed VERY balanced to me with Terran being a bit easy mode. It seemed the Zerg had to work way harder for not as big off a payoff, whereas the Terran could stim / stutter step his way to victory while keeping his medivacs around. But over-all balance is very close and the game is still evolving.
@vynterbone What terran micro ? All he had to do was first lay down auto turrets in the front to mess up ultralisk pathing and tank ultralisk damage then a pdd against hydras ? BratOK made a lot of mistakes in this game.. he didnt even attempt to mass repair any of his fortresses and expos while they were being attacked. I do not agree with the belief than mass ultralisks seem unstoppable. Question : Do you know what stops mass ultralisks? Answer: Two of them in the front.
@sinephase As a high diamond Z myself, I'd argue that Z isn't strictly UP, but it's power is really lopsided. Zerg's macro is too good because of spawn larvae, and Blizz balanced that by shafting Zerg's units. The result is that Zerg is OP in high-econ situations (late game) and UP in low-econ situations (early game, or mid/late game after army/base trades), but strong T/P players can force the game to low-econ. What needs to happen is a nerf to spawn larvae and a buff to Zerg units.
@vanillacrem3 Dude, the Zerg player was at an extreme advantage then got outplayed. He threw his army into the meat grinder, and a raven changed the game. Can't you see that? The Zerg player even dropped the Terran economy to near collapse, and he still lost! The Terran never had control of the game until the very end. BratOk was still near death until 2 minutes left in the game. MonDragon had control of the map for the entire game, and even that didn't stop him from losing. Re- watch FTW.
This game is worthy of a standing ovation, one, if not the, best game you've casted HD.
@runner15 Yes, zerg units were fully upgraded, and ultralisk have also a plus +2 upgrade. Mara+Sp has no downside with enough mede and incredible results.
oh my godness, tomorrow is my exam at 9am and now is 4am i still watch HDstarcraft and dont feel regret that i did watch this game. Nice work BratOK.
@4rcane yes but the infestors also have other abilities that kind of make up for infested terrans being a little suckish. the fact that they can stop a cluster of units so they can't retreat or micro and make it easy for banelings to steam role the enemy forces in addition a nice bit of damage. Also having an ability that allows them to control any unit for an unlimited time is also pretty powerful.
@xxGoSu yes , bioball stimpacked marines do counter broodlords when controlled correctly. Marauders mow down the broodlings while the marines get microed to kill the broodlords. How many high level player games do you see zerg go broodlords ? You can probably count them on one hand.
Wow. I watch a lot of your games but this might be the best one i've seen yet. I CANNOT believe Bratok came back to win that. Wow.
@acyu What are you talking about? Zerg was constantly maxed out for most of the game whereas Terran's supply hovered around 100 until Zerg depleted their gas trying to break down T's defenses.
Z ran out of gas because *gasp* Z units are extremely gas-intensive! T can hang on using gas-cheap marines and marauders, whereas Z must build Ultralisks, Infestors, Hydralisks, and Banelings.
Spamming units when you're that insanely ahead works perfectly for every matchup except for ZvT.
@vynterbone Speedlings wasnt an option with 5 tanks.Im probably wrong but i didnt see this overmicroing by the terran over the zerg everyone saw.The position of the zerg was enough good in any fight,sometimes he throw ultralisks over the ramps and that was mistake but happened only twice.The rest was pretty standard,nice focusing from booth,good positioning.The rest was just mass T1+pdd destroying mass T2+T3.
@timorbit 1 raven could take out 20 BLs if it had enough time and energy considering the BLs can't attack the ravens. but yea, i believe the AT takes up what, 50 energy and the raven has a max of i think 200, sooo that means 4 ATs per raven, 6 ravens x 4 = 24 ATs. 24 is a bigger number than 18 or 20, plus they deal more damage to those broodlings and BLs than most other units. also, i never said his 100 supply wasn't a factor, i just stated he couldnt use BLs much cause of the ravens and marines
@Stuntman8000
Keep in mind that BratOK's units were also upgraded, and he had more than an average amount of medivacs building up energy in between fights.
@vanillacrem3
But he had already produced some infestors and had a MASSIVE income lead. The Muta might have been a problem because of the HSM, if you cant micro them other than a mass ball they are in real trouble there. I really think the important thing here was the fungal growth, stops them dead and gives time to bring in troops and take them out, even if its just muta or hydra. Burrowed hyda might have even been best, fungal and flank, they are all toast, as well as the medevac.
@poobslag yeah but terran didn't have any air counters by then with raven/maurader and PDD will only last for a while. Even if he wanted to tech-switch he wouldn't have the resources to do it.
That was hands down the best game I've seen. Awesome!!!
@vynterbone True only if you consider sending marauders with steampack and setting a pdd good micro.A player in advantage for half the game booth economically (5bases vs 3bases mostly) and by units should win,considering that the zerg didn't do any big mistake.Any antiair becomes useless cause of the pdd, and mara+mede+sp are just invincible in the ground.If all the pro say that mara are too cheap MAYBE something has to be true.
Awesome replay. Seriously one of the best ive seen.
@12etsam Platnium unfortunatly for me but in my general opinion about toss v terra is that they have emp, toss has psi storm. for siege and mara well i typically use air units or i have some coli/immortals and maybe a archon with lots taking the hits. Plus when I see siege I back that shit up if I can.
An epic game! The mentality of each player was decisive. Even when BratOK was low in 2/3 he still chased Mondragon off the field. The opponent surely could have won but many times he turned back and didn't push. What a good watch.
I swear all of HD's games are always sooo epic!!!
@chabossD Yeah, I thought that too. With so much income and larvae there was no reason why he couldn't have sunk money into air upgrades and made a timely muta switch after one of the army trades in order to wipe out the annoying medevac/raven/viking force, especially against a marauder heavy composition.
@12etsam lolz damn indeed, but i dont group my forces up i keep em in a certain group and such, with my air units i strike from their flanks and my templar are in the back, also if im quick enough i can feed back the ghostsif not ill just drop the storm.
Marauders are the starcraft version of the C&C tank rush... and they can get healed too...
gotta be one of the best replays i have ever seen. terran ftw!
Holy crap that was probably the most epic terran micro ever.
@furikuri52 the thing is, mondragon would engage a battle and win it, but then bratok would bring in reinforcements. mondragon didn't bring in reinforcements, but stayed to fight a 2ndbattle losing the rest of his ultras
This is so epic...The best game i've ever seen..By Far!!
@timorbit not only that, but the Zerg had like what 2 bases over the Terran and didn't capitalize that to full effect, plus he could of made so many units to counter the Terran but just kept making so many ultras and not enough of other things
@DininDalael My point is the army compositions...if you are getting more resources than the other player by that much of an amount then the only reason you'd lose if you engage in a very bad spot or just have a really bad army composition compared to what your opponent has. As for scouting i will agree that zerg has it rough compared to the other two races, it seems like overseer is the best bet with the use of changlings. I think zerg need a buff in the scouting department and less micro heavy
@copznrobbas Yes its quite a shame. And just in case anyone misunderstands, I'm not claiming that I could do better. Its really nice to look at it from our point of view where were not having to deal with the stress of managing it all. :P
Other then macro, when the Terran Turtles like this, what do you think is the best counter strat?
I've seen multiple nydus networks. The Zerg player was able to pop up all over the map, and he was much more mobile when attacking, retreating, responding
Good god that was a really amazing game. I thought Zerg was going to win but that was a fantastic Terran come back. Great game from both players.
Also, as for scouting: Terrans and protoss usually block their base.. Terrans can use scan to scout, protoss can use observers to scout.. What about zerg? A big ass, slow unit that also happens to be your supplies... Scouting for zergs is a pain. Either accept the loss of an overlord or wait 'til you have a lair and upgrade the speed (still risk losing it) or upgrade an overlord to an overseer and still risk losing it.
I have a replay of a game where I used ALL types of units and barely won.
@runner15 You arent considering that mutas gets obliterated by mass steam marines+mede, plus mara and marines shares the same upgrades, while switching from ground to air for the zerg would have meant a whole new set of upgrades. Think about it pls, ty.
WOW.... this game was seriously amazing. Where can I get this replay???
@vanillacrem3 I see what your saying there. And I think that is a valid point on the condition that a Protoss player that is out macro'd is not able to negate that "out macro" by micro.
Do you see what I'm saying? Even if a player out macro's the other, even he has not "out macro'd" him by a certain degree, then macro can negate those extra forces/upgrades/tech,
You seem to be suggesting that the degree to which terran can do this is imba. am I correct? Thoughts?
Holy shit bratok is hands down the most amazing terran player i have ever seen great job and incredible comeback
@SweepTheLegYo Its not due to any imbalance. It was Mondragon's fault - he got overconfident - he should've got corruptors to focuspick Medivacs and Ravens. He thought he could just steamroll everything with those max up Ultras without any air support.
@gaggyfish
Why didn't he put up spore crawlers to deal with the ravens?
Also, his 71 drones could have been used to deal with the vestiges of the Terran forces...
@BeefButcher132 you mean the fact that the Z spent over half of his pop on harvesters so he ended up having a significantly weaker army? He was doing AWESOME with fungal growth, which worked for him all game. But instead of continuing that knowing he's got the T out-expo'd and pinned, he decided to go hydra + VERY FEW ultras vs. mass ravens + MMM. He made a horrible choice in changing his unit comp thinking he needed someway to deal with the medivac + raven when ravens completely nullified hydra
I love how people claim that Terran is overpowered but yet EPIC games like this still take place.
what you fail to mention is that you zerg have that ability to expand so quickly and effectivly
The longevity of the terran air support definitely played a big role in BratOK winning.
@HDFoxra Not at all, the broodlords could have just navigated away from the autoturrets and then snipe the ravens.
@daaim0 I couldn't agree more, Mondragon had that game won 10 minutes sooner if he had stopped producing Hydras and just gone to Mutalisks. The Ravens would have been destroyed along with the Medivacs and he would have won easily. I also would have liked to see him throw down an extra hatch or two in his main so he could have plenty of Larva to keep his army supplied.
This was one of the best games you have casted HD!
Mondragon should have made more broodlords.
bratok is really a master.
awesome, awesome play on his part.
terran power!
@pigrandom
Well Tanks get fixed, so they are less deadly against Zerglings/Banelings and Hydra, so that might allready take a lot of points out, as the Muta/Ling combination is allready quite good against Terran.
But i would enjoy a bunch of maps "without" choke points, thats a little strange that all ladder maps have choke points.
@Atexis At a certain point the terran can have a superior army, because it can be a 50% greater army, and therefore able to do more damage per minute than a 6 base zerg.
@petecabrina Mutalisks can easily avoid seeker missiles because they fly faster. Burrowed units would have been irrelevant here since Ravens are detectors.
omfg, what an epic game. Very nice Raven-action. I loved the PDD's especially at the end. The hydras were cornered between two of them and did hardly any damage. So the marauders could kill the ultras no problem.
Yes mondragon made small mistakes but so did bratok. For example when his 11 o'clock expansion was attacked and he had two planetary fortresses there he didn't bother to repair neither one of them. He could have killed the zerg-force there. Instead he lost two fortresses and his exp
@thenewplayer im sure it does
just like how 1 infestor and 3 banelings can take out 20 or so marines
Wow, one of THE most epic games EVAR.
BratOK redefines the word resilience.
i dont know how they play with such a small amount of hotkeys. i guess bratok must tab through his productions buildings?
@Peekeey He had quite a few vikings until he realized that Corruptors weren't coming out. PDD also stops corruptor shots keep in mind.
@sulaji84 Queens at the expos were unnecessary as Mondragon already had enough larvae between all of those hatches to maintain his army. The lack of muta switch was a much bigger mistake, as was maintainining ~100 drones when only ~60 are needed to maintain a maxed Zerg army.
@zan25051 Eh, the vikings do have a 4 second downtime to switch though, and turrets, well yeah their cheap but thier not unlike the protoss cannons, which can target ground and air and is a detector. Along with the zergs spore colonies which compare almost as well minus the stealth detection. And as for nukes, the protoss has a mothership that cloaks everything under it and can make vortex's to temporarily disable units, or mass recall for obvious reasons. The zerg, well honestly idk lol.
Holy shit..... That was SO impressive. Amazing play by brat.... so impressed.....
@People saying Terran was outplayed:
Zerg capped his army to ~100 supply, thanks to all of his useless drones at the end not contributing. He then made projectile units (Hydralisks) against Point Defense Drones. If he had made mass Ultra's instead, after getting rid of some of his drones, he would have been able to pull out a win.
i think that's the best game i have seen so far!.. wow epic!
@acyu If you really believe that a 150 pop army should beat a
dayum, these kind of games makes me want to become good at this game
@multidinero You're missing the point. It's not possible in any other matchup to throw away a lead this big no matter how overconfident they get. Only Terran is resilient enough to stay in the game that long when far behind, and only Zerg is defensively vulnerable enough to give up such a lead.
A Terran player with 10x economy over the Zerg player kills the Zerg player in a single 1a attack. Same with any other matchup, except ZvT.
@TheCrispy79 because the strength of the zerg army is not having a stronger army, it's rebuilding faster. That's why 100 drones isn't that bad
@BeefButcher132 Notice, though, nydus worms were not used in this game. Would've made a big difference in the late game.
by far the best game i have ever witnessed.
Damn.... what a come back!
@multidinero Are you trying to help my argument or something? The fact that the Terran economy can be near collapse and still allow for a comeback, while Zerg could not possibly do the same in a reversed scenario, is the very definition of imbalance.
Terrans regularly a-move 200 supply armies at 100 supply Zerg armies and instatnly win. When Zerg tries to do the same here it turns into a meat-grinder. Can't you see that the one-sided nature of this equals imbalance?
@Enthos2 You meant 2 base terran vs 5 bases Zerg. I totaly agree with you btw, its seriously stupid that Z's too good macro got him over 100 drones (that the needed because of all the bases he secured) and that having that many drones means that you can only get barely like 50 decent units, roachs and hydras taking 2 supplies, not to mention Ultras' supply cost. A Z having a great economy is a Z having a small army, yay for the swarm. I'm a protoss player btw, if anybody cares.
@vanillacrem3 The Terran Army was nearly destroyed by the Zerg. His harvester count was as low as 4 workers near the end and he only had 11 to like 71 Harvesters for the Zerg. at the end. He was left with like 12 units in his army total!
That was because of the Raven and it's drones and missiles and turrets. If anything can be said about the Terran battle, the Ravens saved his bacon! BratOk should have died a number of times, but the Ravens saved him repeatedly. That's just awesome composition.
@sidiusolidus wouldn't muta been just as screwed by the PDD usage as hydras? i mean that was the point, zerg had 2-3 times the supply of the terran but PDD just shuts down all of his units
Wow that is by far best game I have seen in a little bit now. Great game. I was sure Brat was gonna lose that.
@thorizzle117 Mondragon's forces were ground dominant having hydralisks for anti-air and ultralisks to take care of the rest. Even HD was waiting for Bratok to gg since his forces were dwindling. Vikings were destroyed and only a few medivacs and ravens can handle numerous ultralisk attacks. Mondragon did make a few mistakes especially with the overlord drops. But he did have the economic advantage and the army advantage.
WOW! I thought for sure Zerg was gonna win. It was nice surprise, I´m Terran fan. Thanks Mr. OK :-)
@gloomzday
did you not see all those brood lords get taken out by ravens?
@AmokBR
Agreed, Marauders are incredibly strong, and with Stim and Concussive Shells they are just a joke... Remove Stim and make the Concussive shells either a really expensive upgrade or give the Marauders energy which is wasted with each concussive shell launched, when they run out of energy they shoot normal rounds... or something like that
@jmrwacko um, i do believe you should recheck your logic, Broodlords can't attack air. plus all the ravens would need to do is just throw down more turrets behind the BLs, thus blocking them in.
most epic game evar! :) Thx HD!
i would love so much to see this on tv instead of football commentary, i would def watch this on tv anyday
@Str33tSupra you basically need to get psi storm to counter mm, but its sooo high up the tech tree. (i never get collossi b/c vikings kill them absurdly fast.)
@Outrageouss2 Medivacs and Ravens are definitely not T3 -_- T2, T2.5 at best. Check the armory, or anyone who knows anything about scII.
@MrAlpruitt That is a a form of imbalance, because in any other matchup if you outmacro them that badly you win no matter how careless you are; that's the basis of Sauron Zerg style in BW.
SC2's TvZ is the only matchup in both games where you can somehow squeeze a win despite being outmacroed that hard.
@melczor thank you. although there were ravens, but still 3M beats anything and everything.
@timorbit if you didnt notice he did tech switch to broodlords and they got owned by auto turrets. Also, both blizzard and many pro gamers have acknowledged that Terran are OP. Go look at Blizzards plans for the first patch.
@vanillacrem3 If we reversed situations, the Zerg army would need to have less harvesters and more Offensive units. The Ravens saved the terran army. You really want to argue for Imbalance, but in the end, the zerg needed to cut drones. His composition was bad for offense/defense but he was great on economic levels.
The Zerg army was mismicroed in the end. When the Ultralisks smashed the marauder line, he had a commanding lead. Yet, he got stopped by the Raven PDDs and auto turrets.
One of the Greatest Comebacks
@MrAlpruitt It's always a matter of degree, and how that degree compares between different matchups when considering (top-level) players of equal skill.
In any other matchup, the mere 2x advantage of 2 base vs 1 base is enough that the 1 base must do massive damage soon or lose.
2 base T can a-move any basic composition (MMM, mech, rine/tank/raven, etc) and kill 1 base Z. By contrast, Z must outplay T even with a 5x advantage. This is clearly one of the ways in which ZvT is imba.
@mireka at one point of the game , bratok had only 5 marauder
he was using PDD to defend from hydra and was sniping all those expensive marauders. all he need wer like ~7 to 8 baneling (cheaper than 1 ultralisk) to rape all the marauders, then run zergling in to kill all the scv/mules
@vaporizzz
Because he didn't have tons and tons of marauders against very few ultras. Which he was microing the entire time.
i know you ment "mvp" at time 10:10 for the ravens, but always a good casting by HD. Keep it up! ^_^
great game, def one of my favorite replays,
@NarutoFreak1 PDD happened, mutas fire slower than hydras and have less DPS, I don't see how mutas would have been more useful
one of the best game ever
hdgamer is doing a awesome commenting job
even tho the supply was way higher for the zerg... most of that was drones... the fighting forces favored the terran. and with the mules for the terran on gold the income was similar. terran was in the lead for the whole 3rd part
"Fine, don't respond. Jerk!"
"I like Husky better anyway!"
That part made my day, tell Kenny he's my new hero =P
Great game, keep casting.
Awesome raven work, amazing game!
@mastarmz yeah sooooo OP. All Mondragon had to do is pump out mass Mutalisk and he would have steam rolled the Ravens since there was almost no anti air.
What it came down to was lack of fungal growth, Bio ball is so weak to it, and that would have given him a chance for ultras to administer splash dmg on the ball.
The game seemed VERY balanced to me with Terran being a bit easy mode. It seemed the Zerg had to work way harder for not as big off a payoff, whereas the Terran could stim / stutter step his way to victory while keeping his medivacs around. But over-all balance is very close and the game is still evolving.
@vynterbone
What terran micro ? All he had to do was first lay down auto turrets in the front to mess up ultralisk pathing and tank ultralisk damage then a pdd against hydras ? BratOK made a lot of mistakes in this game.. he didnt even attempt to mass repair any of his fortresses and expos while they were being attacked.
I do not agree with the belief than mass ultralisks seem unstoppable.
Question : Do you know what stops mass ultralisks?
Answer: Two of them in the front.
@sinephase As a high diamond Z myself, I'd argue that Z isn't strictly UP, but it's power is really lopsided. Zerg's macro is too good because of spawn larvae, and Blizz balanced that by shafting Zerg's units.
The result is that Zerg is OP in high-econ situations (late game) and UP in low-econ situations (early game, or mid/late game after army/base trades), but strong T/P players can force the game to low-econ.
What needs to happen is a nerf to spawn larvae and a buff to Zerg units.
This shows that every Unit Counts.....This was so Epic...
@vanillacrem3 Dude, the Zerg player was at an extreme advantage then got outplayed. He threw his army into the meat grinder, and a raven changed the game. Can't you see that? The Zerg player even dropped the Terran economy to near collapse, and he still lost! The Terran never had control of the game until the very end. BratOk was still near death until 2 minutes left in the game.
MonDragon had control of the map for the entire game, and even that didn't stop him from losing. Re- watch FTW.
LOL "Fine, don't answer, I like Husky better anyways" That cracked me up =D