What do you think about Thunderbolt 4? Are you disappointed? Comment your thoughts below! Get our Premium Apple Product Hoodie ➡ ua-cam.com/channels/ptwuAv0XQHo1OQUSaO6NHw.htmlstore Like the wallpapers in this video? Download them here ➡ bit.ly/2WNc6Qw
Love it. I was worried that we were not going to get as much bandwidth as we initially did but now at least it’s safe to say that the future is looking bright for arm macs.🤔
Sounds good, but they could have made things clearer... I mean that's a lot of things to remember and look for. And, once again, I dislike the usb-c connector because it is not physically robust at all. One wrong move and you damage something.
That is the weirdest Thunderbolt update ever.. More like Thunderbolt 3.01? USB4 is one of the best updates ever though. I thought the most important thing to update with TB was to get the speed and dual bandwidth(?) to match a PCI slot so that eGPU’s and such can live up to their full potential? It should be mandatory from now on to print an icon next to every port, and onto every cable, telling us what it is.
Not knowing what the cable will support is my only gripe with USB-C. What version of USB? What kind of power delivery? Even just something indicating that it's dedicated to one purpose. I have a cable that's displayport on one end and plugged into my monitor and USB-C on the other, but you wouldn't know it's a display port only cable unless you trace it back to its source. Or those 'special' cables Oneplus has for fast charging should have some kind of indicator on them. USB-IF needs to get on that.
in the end i guess they chose an umambiguous branding difference to ensure a certain minimal standard, not sure why they create an addtional controller chip however as they could just enforce any usb4 that meet their criteria to be certified as thunderbolt 4. tho i suppose since thunderbolt 4 will be integrated into their new cpus we have no idea if thunderbolt 4 devices will even require a chip at this point. also apple silicon supporting thunderbolt may also be an reason by they need a controller chip out there hmmm
4 years later, someone is still learning from video. You and your team is awesome. Thank you for this really informative and easily explained video!!!!
I was really worried about if Apple would continue to use the thunderbolt specification in the future ARM based Macs, it is a relief to hear that they will be using thunderbolt 4 and continue to support thunderbolt 3.
But Apple didn't say they'd support thunderbolt 4 specifically, just that they'd support thunderbolt. They may just continue to use thunderbolt 3 in their ARM macs. They will probably support Thunderbolt 4 but it wasn't stated explicitly.
Requiring Intel’s VT-d protection for DMA is actually a massive improvement in terms of security. As it currently stands plugging a malicious Thunderbolt 3 device into your machine can read or write to your system’s RAM and do nefarious things such as retrieve sensitive information or overwrite your password with a known one so the attacker can log in as if they were you.
Thunderbolt 4 would still require the Intel chip because of VT-d. What Apple might be trying to do is work with Intel to allow Apple's T2 chip to also do what the VT-d chip does. From extremetech article: "Alternately, it’s possible that Intel and Apple will sign some kind of technology license, allowing the DMA protection Intel enforces via VT-d to be implemented on a future Apple ARM chip or specialized security processor like the T2." Without this agreement, Apple would still have to buy and install the VT-d chip, which is worthless on a Mac since Apple already has plenty of specialized security hardware and software and doesn't need anything from Intel. I don't know what external component vendors will be required to do to continue to support Thunderbolt but hopefully they won't have to continue to use Intel's overpriced hardware, thereby being able to reduce the cost on Thunderbolt peripherals.
I read that security requirement isn’t Intel specific, but rather that style of protection, such that AMD system are a possibility (and AMD has released statement to this effect)
I dont get this thing. I've never had any problem plugging it. There's a logo which should always be upwards. And if it's reversed you see a line on the connector which you dont' see when it's the right side up.
This is a fascinating video. It is an extremely complex area, confusing and misleading from the lack of attention paid to the consumer by the manufacturers. I am grateful to Max Tech for providing a clear, concise, understandable, well produced compelling explanation of the current mess. Many people will be mislead by what is happening, this video blows away lots of the fog. Thank you MT.
egpus perform worse than dgpu in mb pro in some peoductivity test despite the egpu having more raw performance. And that happens due to bandwith limitaion. So 32gbps on tb4 (instead of 16gbps on tb3) should resolve the issue right?
That’s the minimum spec. I think Thunderbolt 3 already does 32Gbps but I’m not sure if it has other limitations on top of that which could be removed with Thunderbolt 4.
Just got the notification that my hoodie (same exact one you’re wearing in this video) is now shipping! YAY! Also just glad I have there 2020 13” MacBook Pro with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, they’ve been a lifesaver in my workflow!
Actually thunderbolt was created by Intel and Apple together SO I makes sense that they can make it work with Apple silicon bcoz they have rights to the technology.
Was going to get a laptop with a 9th gen Intel CPU with Thunderbolt 3, but after having seen how well AMD is doing and with USB 4.0 somewhere on the horizon, I have high hopes that they'll implement both.
Very nice. Did you guys end up selling the Mac Pro like you were planning to and replacing it with a MacBook Pro with a 5600m? If so, how do you like it, and is that what y'all are using to edit?
Private679 R.I.C.O both of my iPad and my phones UA-cam update is about a year old so I don’t get the features. The comment section is in the old place for me and I have the old mini player on the iPad. I recently watched some videos on an updated device I realized it that time that there is a feature like this.
What's that thing on top of the GPU enclosure @ 5:27? It looks like a little monitor that's showing what's on the screen in the background but I don't understand why.
Yeah but not all thunderbolt 3 cables transfer the same speed or power. So how does one know If they are using a thunderbolt 3 or 4 cable if they have the same icon?
Be careful buying usb-c cables. Most sold on Amazon only support USB 2.0 speed of 480 Mbit/s. I found a 4 foot cable (USB 4 Cable for Thunderbolt 4 Cable 4 FT, VCOM 100W Cable with 40Gbps Data and 8K@30Hz 5K@60Hz or Dual 4K Video,Compatible with Thunderbolt 3/4 Cable and USB-C,for MacBooks,Hub, Docking, and More) for $20 from VCOM.
The PCIe bandwidth being doubled to 32 Gb/s seems like a pretty big jump to me. I feel like this would make both high and low end eGPU setups much more worthwhile.
A post M1 Mac update to this would be good. We are seeing USB4 / TB4 Docks and they seem to work well, although they all seem to have a front side input which is good for laptops but bad for desktops. The M1 killed eGPU support. USB4 / TB4 cables aren’t available.
For me the main mystery comes one we talk about power adapters (power delivery). It is stated that USB-C connector can transfer up to 100w of energy. But for example Dell has AC adapters for XPS/Precision line of laptops, that provides 130w (e.g. www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-130-watt-type-c-3-prong-ac-adapter-with-32-ft-power-cord/apd/450-ahom/pc-accessories) . And it works. How could that be?
The most important 2 features of Thunderbolt 4. 1. Minimum standard for cables and support are raised, so you don't get below spec devices on a daisy chain which can hinder other devices. 2. This is the biggest one. Thunderbolt 4 requires all devices to have DMA protection so it can be locked down. DMA hack vectors keep these devices out of profitable government contracts and some businesses. As TBT is going to on ARM Macs, it makes you wonder how much involvement Intel has on this, and possibly why legal X86 emulation (at least in the demo) worked so well.
Did I miss backwards compatibility info? My laptop has TB3, so will I be able to plug in USB-4/TB4 accessories into it and take advantage of the same 40Gbps theoretical maximum speed?
USB Type-C can support DisplayPort output without TB3. The problem (difference) comes when you want to hook up multiple displays, then USB 3.2 bandwidth might not be enough.
It's been a dream of mine to run my computers in one room of my house and just run cables to each room. That way I can keep one room climate controlled and not worry too much about noise and heat production. Would a fiber optic Thunderbolt 3 cable to a peripheral hub allow me to do this?
So if you want a good thunderbolt 3 and USB 4 cable you could get a thunderbolt 4 cable? What I am getting from the video is that thunderbolt 4 is practically a certification that a cable can support the full functionality of thunderbolt3/usb4
so to conect a 2020 m1 bacbook to a mid 2017 imac 21.5', i would need a usb4 or thunderbolt 4? would i also be able connect to an additional monitor? i want to run everything off the macbook and display mirror it to the imac, and then use an old tv as a second monitor
I literally just gave away a $2k MacBook Pro 2018 because of all thunderbolt issues and dongles. So tired of apple propriety bs and switch to Windows Surface... now everything just works! - great video!
I’m slowly starting to understand all these new ports. I just brought a new Mac Mini to replace my 2012 iMac and I had no idea why reviews and spec sites were calling the USB-C ports “thunderbolt 3”.
So with the Controller chip integrated within the CPU. means that Thunderbolt will support Windows and other devices within USB4 outputs in the future?
I'm not still clear about the relationship between Thunderbolt-x and USB-y. Are they just different names for the same thing? I'd appreciate it if you could explain it when you update this video clip.
What about Target mode with the new M1 MacBook Air and Pro? I will need to transfer data/apps/Users from my old MacBook Pro 2012 with its Firewire 800...I'm confused - It's no clear to me which Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter I will need to buy? I would appreciate your help on this subject. Thank you
This is possible through a feature called Multi Stream Transport (MST). Generally, when you connect an external display through a Type C display dongle, they use Single Stream Transport (SST). There's actually Type C hubs and docks that support MST that you can buy right now for most devices, but they will support 2 monitors of lower resolutions, like 2560x1440 (The MST device is using USB Gen 2x2 for the 20 Gbps bandwidth because two 2560x1440 displays require ~12 Gbps data bandwidth). Thunderbolt 3 increases the resolution to 4K because it brings 40 Gbps data bandwidth, and two 4k displays with 60Hz refresh rate require ~30 Gbps. 40 Gbps means a maximum single display resolution of 5K can be supported because 5K requires ~27 Gbps of data bandwidth. Now Thunderbolt 4 brings in a possible 80 Gbps of bandwidth by allowing the changing of direction of data lanes for video; this allows for two 4K monitors with 120Hz refresh rate requiring ~60 Gbps or a single 8K monitor with 60Hz also requiring ~60 Gbps. Source: I'm an engineer who works with the Type C and display drivers in the Linux kernel.
What kind of hub would you recommend for a display monitor connection display, an external USB (white) microphone, a USB (white) external camera and also like to charge using the thunderbolt. Is that possible?
Within the minimum specs for USB4 on the Intel board it doesn't say anything about PCIe connection, on TB3 it says minimum requirement 16 GBytes/s which would be 2xPCIe3.0 or 1xPCIe4, though afaik TB3 is always connected to 4 PCIe3.0 lanes... So I'm even more confused than before. Does USB4 always have TB3 support and does TB3 means what TB3 means (4xPCIe3.0 lanes) or does it sometimes have TB support, sometimes not and sometimes it may have but is connected with fewer lanes as the standard otherwise dictates????
So will I be able to use the cheaper external USB 4 devices (like eGPUs) on a 15 inch MacBook Pro (2019) or will I still have to buy the expensive Thunderbolt 3 stuff?
Is there one cable to rule them all? If I wanted to power the latest and greatest laptop and use that same cable to charge, lets say the s21 ultra when it drops. What wall wart would you get?
what needs to happen is the devices need to say what they are connected as... like on the screen of a device in will say 40gb or 5gb like as a floating icon over the drive or something? Or on the task bar maybe.
As someone who has read extensively on the topics of USB-C, USB 3 (all versions), USB4, Thunderbolt 3 & Thunderbolt 4, I can tell you that this video does the best job I've ever seen in clarifying these concepts. Thank you very much! 3 things I'm not clear about: 1. When a laptop manufacturer chooses to implement Thunderbolt 4 (40 Gbps of course), does that port have to support USB4 40 Gbps, or can the manufacturer choose to only support USB4 20 Gbps? 'Cause remember, with Thunderbolt 3 ports, the TB3 connection is at 40 Gbps, but the USB connection could either be SuperSpeed 10 Gbps or SuperSpeed 20 Gbps. That was left up to the manufacturer, so now I'm wondering whether it's the same with USB4 40 Gbps & USB4 20 Gbps. 2. I saw the compact Thunderbolt 4 dock. My question is: When Intel says the dock has four (4) Thunderbolt 4 ports, does that include the port that's connected to the laptop? In other words, will we have a total of five (5) ports - One connected to the laptop, and four (4) free ones, or will we have a total of four (4) ports - one connected to the laptop, and three (3) free ones? 3. The compact Thunderbolt 4 dock, is it only powered via the TB4 connection to the laptop, or does it require its own power supply?
1. Yes. In a nutshell, USB4 is essentially combining both USB 3 Gen 2x2 and Thunderbolt 3 into a single standard. However, in USB4, Thunderbolt 3 is optional, meaning that you could have 20-40 Gbps bandwidth depending on the laptop manufacturer's decision to use Thunderbolt 3 or not. Now, in Thunderbolt 4, all they're really doing is using USB4, but forcing the usage of Thunderbolt 3 for 40 Gbps bandwidth (bidirectional) and forcing DMA security. In Thunderbolt 4, they're achieving the higher display resolutions by allowing the data lanes to change to a single direction, enabling 80 Gbps of bandwidth for video. 2. The connection from a dock/hub to the laptop is referred to an upstream port, whereas the connection from a dock/hub to another peripheral is a downstream port. My assumption is that four Thunderbolt ports means that there are four downstream ports for peripherals and one upstream port for the laptop. 3. Most all docks I've seen are self-powered, so I'd expect this to be the same. Hubs are different as they'll draw power directly from the device and can sometimes offer the ability to provide power.
Cause as it sits, we generically know what a desktop grade gpus looks like. But since apple is rumored to be leaving amd graphics, then whats the replacement for desktop gpus? I figure that apple has a plan for high end graphics, but the next question is whether or not it will actually look like current gpus or will it be a radically different design? Cause if thats the case, then buying an egpu now in the long run will be pointless since we have no idea if the future of apple gpus will physically be supported by current enclosures. Yeah if you buy an intel mac it’ll be supported and used for a while, the transition time and probably a few years after. But say if you own an egpu now then upgrade to an apple silicone mac, at what point does it become obsolete? Since there are no reports on this front yet, i see this as a great way for apple to brand its own enclosure and set of graphics or basically sell a redesigned afterburner card that will be a “thoughtfully designed” egpu. I can see them telling us how “you dont need to choose a card and hope it fits in your enclosure” or “never worry about set up and building, just plug it in and it works”
That's kinda disappointing. Nice streamlining and I like the longer cable a ton, but man, a doubling in speed would have been nice. Daisy chaining doesn't make sense if the main device saturates the connection, which egpus do. Also, given that this standard will be around for a few years, no mention of pcie gen 4 is a bit worrying.
So, Thunderbolt 4, USB4, what does it mean for us? Would that be less of the bottleneck when using it as an external GPU? Does USB4 even support external GPU?
What do you think about Thunderbolt 4? Are you disappointed? Comment your thoughts below!
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Love it. I was worried that we were not going to get as much bandwidth as we initially did but now at least it’s safe to say that the future is looking bright for arm macs.🤔
How do you avoid Apple suing you for using the images? Or are they Apple device like image but not one to one?
Sounds good, but they could have made things clearer... I mean that's a lot of things to remember and look for. And, once again, I dislike the usb-c connector because it is not physically robust at all. One wrong move and you damage something.
What are the speakers on the desk at the 2:56 mark?
Screw thunderbolt 4 if there’s no speed upgrade.
Watching this video is a hundred times easier than reading Intel's press briefing!
That is the weirdest Thunderbolt update ever.. More like Thunderbolt 3.01? USB4 is one of the best updates ever though. I thought the most important thing to update with TB was to get the speed and dual bandwidth(?) to match a PCI slot so that eGPU’s and such can live up to their full potential?
It should be mandatory from now on to print an icon next to every port, and onto every cable, telling us what it is.
Not knowing what the cable will support is my only gripe with USB-C. What version of USB? What kind of power delivery? Even just something indicating that it's dedicated to one purpose. I have a cable that's displayport on one end and plugged into my monitor and USB-C on the other, but you wouldn't know it's a display port only cable unless you trace it back to its source. Or those 'special' cables Oneplus has for fast charging should have some kind of indicator on them. USB-IF needs to get on that.
in the end i guess they chose an umambiguous branding difference to ensure a certain minimal standard, not sure why they create an addtional controller chip however as they could just enforce any usb4 that meet their criteria to be certified as thunderbolt 4. tho i suppose since thunderbolt 4 will be integrated into their new cpus we have no idea if thunderbolt 4 devices will even require a chip at this point. also apple silicon supporting thunderbolt may also be an reason by they need a controller chip out there hmmm
4 years later, someone is still learning from video. You and your team is awesome. Thank you for this really informative and easily explained video!!!!
Thank you! We appreciate it!
I was really worried about if Apple would continue to use the thunderbolt specification in the future ARM based Macs, it is a relief to hear that they will be using thunderbolt 4 and continue to support thunderbolt 3.
Valid thought aswell, luckily thunderbolt is no longer propriety to intel
Intel made thunderbolt in collaboration with Apple so I didn’t have any doubts about it not being supported tbh
But Apple didn't say they'd support thunderbolt 4 specifically, just that they'd support thunderbolt. They may just continue to use thunderbolt 3 in their ARM macs. They will probably support Thunderbolt 4 but it wasn't stated explicitly.
if they don't switch to usb c they will always have a dogshit cord, usb c is better in every way
@@coaltrain2299what are you yapping about?
Requiring Intel’s VT-d protection for DMA is actually a massive improvement in terms of security. As it currently stands plugging a malicious Thunderbolt 3 device into your machine can read or write to your system’s RAM and do nefarious things such as retrieve sensitive information or overwrite your password with a known one so the attacker can log in as if they were you.
Thunderbolt 4 would still require the Intel chip because of VT-d. What Apple might be trying to do is work with Intel to allow Apple's T2 chip to also do what the VT-d chip does. From extremetech article: "Alternately, it’s possible that Intel and Apple will sign some kind of technology license, allowing the DMA protection Intel enforces via VT-d to be implemented on a future Apple ARM chip or specialized security processor like the T2." Without this agreement, Apple would still have to buy and install the VT-d chip, which is worthless on a Mac since Apple already has plenty of specialized security hardware and software and doesn't need anything from Intel. I don't know what external component vendors will be required to do to continue to support Thunderbolt but hopefully they won't have to continue to use Intel's overpriced hardware, thereby being able to reduce the cost on Thunderbolt peripherals.
I read that security requirement isn’t Intel specific, but rather that style of protection, such that AMD system are a possibility (and AMD has released statement to this effect)
حلم
الا اله الا الله الحمد الله رب العالمين
الله له ملك السموات والا رض وهو علي كل شيء قدير
Future Vadim, can you please give us the lottery numbers in advance please 😁
hahaha!
@@MaxTechOfficial So what is the number 😏
69 69 69
_noice_
Should be called TB 3.5 or something, definitely doesn’t feel like a 4
it's about matching the usb name, really, as its pretty much nothing but a certification of a *very good* usb 4 execution
Man this channel deserves to have millions of subscribers. He explains so perfectly.
how USB type A works:
try to plug it in, doesnt work
turning it around also doesnt work
turning it around again then works
I dont get this thing. I've never had any problem plugging it. There's a logo which should always be upwards. And if it's reversed you see a line on the connector which you dont' see when it's the right side up.
Micro B is even worse.
@@Inazarab You could at least feel the spikes on micro-b with your hand. I mean the underside
I actually came here to know what is this thunderbolt cable, and I got to know even more from the beginning.
great video!!!
Thanks for the information, I didn't understand the difference between those TB/USB connectors :)
Big confusion very nicely explained. Thanks!
This is a fascinating video. It is an extremely complex area, confusing and misleading from the lack of attention paid to the consumer by the manufacturers. I am grateful to Max Tech for providing a clear, concise, understandable, well produced compelling explanation of the current mess. Many people will be mislead by what is happening, this video blows away lots of the fog. Thank you MT.
egpus perform worse than dgpu in mb pro in some peoductivity test despite the egpu having more raw performance. And that happens due to bandwith limitaion. So 32gbps on tb4 (instead of 16gbps on tb3) should resolve the issue right?
That’s the minimum spec. I think Thunderbolt 3 already does 32Gbps but I’m not sure if it has other limitations on top of that which could be removed with Thunderbolt 4.
@@MaxTechOfficial Then we have to just wait and watch.
Just got the notification that my hoodie (same exact one you’re wearing in this video) is now shipping! YAY! Also just glad I have there 2020 13” MacBook Pro with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, they’ve been a lifesaver in my workflow!
Thanks for supporting us!
Very well-researched and fine-made video this is. Well Done "Max Tech".
Thanks for explaining everything in detail
you guys make the most comprehensible tech videos - thanks
Actually thunderbolt was created by Intel and Apple together SO I makes sense that they can make it work with Apple silicon bcoz they have rights to the technology.
Yeah, my company tested out a prototype in late 2010 on an Apple system when it was still known as Lightpeak.
Was going to get a laptop with a 9th gen Intel CPU with Thunderbolt 3, but after having seen how well AMD is doing and with USB 4.0 somewhere on the horizon, I have high hopes that they'll implement both.
Thank you for the comparison of USB 3 and 4 and Thunderbolt 3 and 4. Made it crystal-clear.
Very nice. Did you guys end up selling the Mac Pro like you were planning to and replacing it with a MacBook Pro with a 5600m? If so, how do you like it, and is that what y'all are using to edit?
This video has sections. I didn’t UA-cam had this feature. This feature makes the understanding the part easily.
This feature came last month
Private679 R.I.C.O both of my iPad and my phones UA-cam update is about a year old so I don’t get the features. The comment section is in the old place for me and I have the old mini player on the iPad. I recently watched some videos on an updated device I realized it that time that there is a feature like this.
Gabriel Jacoby-Cooper Thank You for explaining. It is really a great feature.
What's that thing on top of the GPU enclosure @ 5:27? It looks like a little monitor that's showing what's on the screen in the background but I don't understand why.
It's just an extra monitor we hooked up to fix a performance issue with the 5700 XT eGPU system
Very well Explained. Could not have got a better explanation Great work Keep making such great videos👍👍👍👍👍
Thunderbolt 4 cable will have Thunderbolt Icon and 4 on the connector, it’s pretty easy to tell
Yeah but not all thunderbolt 3 cables transfer the same speed or power. So how does one know If they are using a thunderbolt 3 or 4 cable if they have the same icon?
Overall pretty good, well balanced, well delivered presentation. God job!
Be careful buying usb-c cables. Most sold on Amazon only support USB 2.0 speed of 480 Mbit/s. I found a 4 foot cable (USB 4 Cable for Thunderbolt 4 Cable 4 FT, VCOM 100W Cable with 40Gbps Data and 8K@30Hz 5K@60Hz or Dual 4K Video,Compatible with Thunderbolt 3/4 Cable and USB-C,for MacBooks,Hub, Docking, and More) for $20 from VCOM.
Amazing video. It’s amazing how you guys find these amazing topics.
What an amazing comment
Amazing...
Max what's the 'Stand' that a MBP sits in at 2:34 it's a silver concave shape. Thank you Stren.
Digging deep into the specs on this one. Great info!
Can you use a Thunderbolt 3/4 cable on a USB4 port?
I was reading about this today. Good overview and I am excited for this new spec that'll be updated again and again. (:
USB: You don't know what you get
Thunderbolt: You pay to know what you get
The PCIe bandwidth being doubled to 32 Gb/s seems like a pretty big jump to me. I feel like this would make both high and low end eGPU setups much more worthwhile.
Thanks, Max Tech guys!! gr8 nfo!
i was also worried about apple arm and thunderbolt relationship. thanks for clarification
A post M1 Mac update to this would be good. We are seeing USB4 / TB4 Docks and they seem to work well, although they all seem to have a front side input which is good for laptops but bad for desktops. The M1 killed eGPU support. USB4 / TB4 cables aren’t available.
Why does Thunderbolt 4 refuse to double its bandwidth even though PCIE4.0 has doubled its bandwidth? PCIe4.0*4 has a bandwidth of 80Gbits/s
Intel can grab more money from us again with TB4
Proprietary hardware = not for me
For me the main mystery comes one we talk about power adapters (power delivery). It is stated that USB-C connector can transfer up to 100w of energy. But for example Dell has AC adapters for XPS/Precision line of laptops, that provides 130w (e.g. www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-130-watt-type-c-3-prong-ac-adapter-with-32-ft-power-cord/apd/450-ahom/pc-accessories) . And it works. How could that be?
So can you tell me what the difference would be on the new iMac with the usb4 and thunderbolt.
The most important 2 features of Thunderbolt 4.
1. Minimum standard for cables and support are raised, so you don't get below spec devices on a daisy chain which can hinder other devices.
2. This is the biggest one. Thunderbolt 4 requires all devices to have DMA protection so it can be locked down. DMA hack vectors keep these devices out of profitable government contracts and some businesses.
As TBT is going to on ARM Macs, it makes you wonder how much involvement Intel has on this, and possibly why legal X86 emulation (at least in the demo) worked so well.
Did I miss backwards compatibility info? My laptop has TB3, so will I be able to plug in USB-4/TB4 accessories into it and take advantage of the same 40Gbps theoretical maximum speed?
yes, as long as your TB4 cable or accessory supports the full speeds that it can.
what's the vertical laptop stand at 2:33 called?
You are the best utuber
USB Type-C can support DisplayPort output without TB3. The problem (difference) comes when you want to hook up multiple displays, then USB 3.2 bandwidth might not be enough.
It's been a dream of mine to run my computers in one room of my house and just run cables to each room. That way I can keep one room climate controlled and not worry too much about noise and heat production. Would a fiber optic Thunderbolt 3 cable to a peripheral hub allow me to do this?
So if you want a good thunderbolt 3 and USB 4 cable you could get a thunderbolt 4 cable? What I am getting from the video is that thunderbolt 4 is practically a certification that a cable can support the full functionality of thunderbolt3/usb4
so to conect a 2020 m1 bacbook to a mid 2017 imac 21.5', i would need a usb4 or thunderbolt 4?
would i also be able connect to an additional monitor? i want to run everything off the macbook and display mirror it to the imac, and then use an old tv as a second monitor
I literally just gave away a $2k MacBook Pro 2018 because of all thunderbolt issues and dongles. So tired of apple propriety bs and switch to Windows Surface... now everything just works! - great video!
I’m slowly starting to understand all these new ports. I just brought a new Mac Mini to replace my 2012 iMac and I had no idea why reviews and spec sites were calling the USB-C ports “thunderbolt 3”.
Thank you for making this video! It makes it all clear.
So will all USB 4 ports support 40 Gbps, or will some be limited to 10 Gbps because the manufacturer is to cheap to upgrade them to 40 Gbps?
So with the Controller chip integrated within the CPU. means that Thunderbolt will support Windows and other devices within USB4 outputs in the future?
I need help
With the new macbook air m1, how do i connect a cinema display with Mini DisplayPort and an audio interfave with thunderbolt 2?
What Thunderbolt 4 cable should I get for the new MacBook Pro 16-inch with the M1 Pro chip?
OK, now I'm wondering, how the heck did Samsung and some other smartphone manufacturers put 15W or more through USB Type-A...
I'm not still clear about the relationship between Thunderbolt-x and USB-y. Are they just different names for the same thing? I'd appreciate it if you could explain it when you update this video clip.
What about Target mode with the new M1 MacBook Air and Pro? I will need to transfer data/apps/Users from my old MacBook Pro 2012 with its Firewire 800...I'm confused - It's no clear to me which Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter I will need to buy? I would appreciate your help on this subject. Thank you
Hello! If I plan to use my phone as a hot spot to run my MacBook Air while on vacation, what type of dock should I get?
@6:50 you say intel requires thunderbolt 4 to support two 4K displays. How is that possible? One cable supporting 2 displays?
Can someone clarify
This is possible through a feature called Multi Stream Transport (MST). Generally, when you connect an external display through a Type C display dongle, they use Single Stream Transport (SST). There's actually Type C hubs and docks that support MST that you can buy right now for most devices, but they will support 2 monitors of lower resolutions, like 2560x1440 (The MST device is using USB Gen 2x2 for the 20 Gbps bandwidth because two 2560x1440 displays require ~12 Gbps data bandwidth). Thunderbolt 3 increases the resolution to 4K because it brings 40 Gbps data bandwidth, and two 4k displays with 60Hz refresh rate require ~30 Gbps. 40 Gbps means a maximum single display resolution of 5K can be supported because 5K requires ~27 Gbps of data bandwidth.
Now Thunderbolt 4 brings in a possible 80 Gbps of bandwidth by allowing the changing of direction of data lanes for video; this allows for two 4K monitors with 120Hz refresh rate requiring ~60 Gbps or a single 8K monitor with 60Hz also requiring ~60 Gbps.
Source: I'm an engineer who works with the Type C and display drivers in the Linux kernel.
Wow what a great and very informative video. Thanks!
anyone know the wallpaper art at 2:58?
What kind of hub would you recommend for a display monitor connection display, an external USB (white) microphone, a USB (white) external camera and also like to charge using the thunderbolt. Is that possible?
Within the minimum specs for USB4 on the Intel board it doesn't say anything about PCIe connection, on TB3 it says minimum requirement 16 GBytes/s which would be 2xPCIe3.0 or 1xPCIe4, though afaik TB3 is always connected to 4 PCIe3.0 lanes... So I'm even more confused than before. Does USB4 always have TB3 support and does TB3 means what TB3 means (4xPCIe3.0 lanes) or does it sometimes have TB support, sometimes not and sometimes it may have but is connected with fewer lanes as the standard otherwise dictates????
I have an iPad pro M1. So does that mean I use normal USB Type-C cables/devices on the thunderbolt 3 port that is there on the iPad pro m1?
Great channel. You are my go to source to keep up with Apple.
Ok is typec compatible with thunderbolt 3 and works ?
So will I be able to use the cheaper external USB 4 devices (like eGPUs) on a 15 inch MacBook Pro (2019) or will I still have to buy the expensive Thunderbolt 3 stuff?
I always explain. Type C is Interface, USB & Thunderbolt is Protocol. Both of the interface and protocol have different variations.
i'm confused so will USB 4 drive work and use 40Gbps on a ThunderBolt 3 Mac?
Didn't Apple develop the original Thunderbolt with Intel?
Yes but Intel bought the rights back. That's why they were able to license for Windows computers that even runs with AMD chipsets.
They developed it together but Intel owns the rights.
Is there one cable to rule them all?
If I wanted to power the latest and greatest laptop and use that same cable to charge, lets say the s21 ultra when it drops.
What wall wart would you get?
what needs to happen is the devices need to say what they are connected as... like on the screen of a device in will say 40gb or 5gb like as a floating icon over the drive or something? Or on the task bar maybe.
Thank you for the clarification! I didn't heard about thunderbolt 3 until lately when I was researching about the new hp spectre 360!
can you make a video on the Apple $130 T3 cable and why it's so much more costly than Belkin?
All usb A have a sign that shows the direction to insert them.I know it's kind of late news.
Wow, I thought I was confused before watching this video, now I'm even more confused! Thaaanks
On the 2019 MacBook Pro Apple calls is USB C 3.1 with 10GB transfer speed. The power rating is only 96W
Looking forward to buying a usb 4 laptop but when will those come out
Later this year hopefully
Can i use a thunderbolt 3 in a type c 3.1 dock?
I thought this was techquickie when I saw the thumbnail lol
Could there be a thunberbolt 3 adapter to usb 4 conector?
As someone who has read extensively on the topics of USB-C, USB 3 (all versions), USB4, Thunderbolt 3 & Thunderbolt 4, I can tell you that this video does the best job I've ever seen in clarifying these concepts. Thank you very much! 3 things I'm not clear about:
1. When a laptop manufacturer chooses to implement Thunderbolt 4 (40 Gbps of course), does that port have to support USB4 40 Gbps, or can the manufacturer choose to only support USB4 20 Gbps? 'Cause remember, with Thunderbolt 3 ports, the TB3 connection is at 40 Gbps, but the USB connection could either be SuperSpeed 10 Gbps or SuperSpeed 20 Gbps. That was left up to the manufacturer, so now I'm wondering whether it's the same with USB4 40 Gbps & USB4 20 Gbps.
2. I saw the compact Thunderbolt 4 dock. My question is: When Intel says the dock has four (4) Thunderbolt 4 ports, does that include the port that's connected to the laptop? In other words, will we have a total of five (5) ports - One connected to the laptop, and four (4) free ones, or will we have a total of four (4) ports - one connected to the laptop, and three (3) free ones?
3. The compact Thunderbolt 4 dock, is it only powered via the TB4 connection to the laptop, or does it require its own power supply?
1. Yes. In a nutshell, USB4 is essentially combining both USB 3 Gen 2x2 and Thunderbolt 3 into a single standard. However, in USB4, Thunderbolt 3 is optional, meaning that you could have 20-40 Gbps bandwidth depending on the laptop manufacturer's decision to use Thunderbolt 3 or not. Now, in Thunderbolt 4, all they're really doing is using USB4, but forcing the usage of Thunderbolt 3 for 40 Gbps bandwidth (bidirectional) and forcing DMA security. In Thunderbolt 4, they're achieving the higher display resolutions by allowing the data lanes to change to a single direction, enabling 80 Gbps of bandwidth for video.
2. The connection from a dock/hub to the laptop is referred to an upstream port, whereas the connection from a dock/hub to another peripheral is a downstream port. My assumption is that four Thunderbolt ports means that there are four downstream ports for peripherals and one upstream port for the laptop.
3. Most all docks I've seen are self-powered, so I'd expect this to be the same. Hubs are different as they'll draw power directly from the device and can sometimes offer the ability to provide power.
Dude! Full PCie 3 bandwidth is the best feature. Now people will be able to have 100% egpu performance! I am so hyped!
... 😁... excellent presentation.... !!!... also an excellent example of how fast everything is evolving... i loved my Ataris...😅.....!!!!!....
What do you mean with "optionally supports usb4"?
Asymmetric USB-C will be interesting especially if it can flip directions itself
And as usual, it will be a while before we get a fully functioning system with the latest and greatest.
So a future with thunderbolt still exists, cool. But the real question i have now is whats the future of egpus?
Cause as it sits, we generically know what a desktop grade gpus looks like. But since apple is rumored to be leaving amd graphics, then whats the replacement for desktop gpus?
I figure that apple has a plan for high end graphics, but the next question is whether or not it will actually look like current gpus or will it be a radically different design? Cause if thats the case, then buying an egpu now in the long run will be pointless since we have no idea if the future of apple gpus will physically be supported by current enclosures.
Yeah if you buy an intel mac it’ll be supported and used for a while, the transition time and probably a few years after. But say if you own an egpu now then upgrade to an apple silicone mac, at what point does it become obsolete?
Since there are no reports on this front yet, i see this as a great way for apple to brand its own enclosure and set of graphics or basically sell a redesigned afterburner card that will be a “thoughtfully designed” egpu. I can see them telling us how “you dont need to choose a card and hope it fits in your enclosure” or “never worry about set up and building, just plug it in and it works”
So will thunderbolt 3 accessories work with a USB4 port? And vice versa?
So does that mean we're going to start getting cheaper TB3 accessories ie. external hard drives(or enclosures)?
That's kinda disappointing. Nice streamlining and I like the longer cable a ton, but man, a doubling in speed would have been nice. Daisy chaining doesn't make sense if the main device saturates the connection, which egpus do.
Also, given that this standard will be around for a few years, no mention of pcie gen 4 is a bit worrying.
What about the expected price of the arm based macs
Does anyone know if thunderbolt 4 will boost e-gpu performance?
Can I use usb 3.0 or usb 2.0 cable on a usb 3.2 gen 1 laptop port
So, Thunderbolt 4, USB4, what does it mean for us? Would that be less of the bottleneck when using it as an external GPU? Does USB4 even support external GPU?
Will the new Mac Mini M1 support three 4k monitors?