440 vs. 415 Hz: what's the difference between baroque and modern pitch? | Team Recorder
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- You might have heard of recorder tuned in 440, 415, or even 466 - but what does that mean?? And can you tell the difference? I hope you're ready to get nerdy about tuning systems! And it is more fun than it sounds, I promise...
/// TERMS I REFERENCE (because it's all a bit complicated)
A=440 Hz (modern pitch)
A = 415 Hz (low/baroque pitch, concert Ab)
A = 466 Hz (high/renaissance pitch, concert A#)
A = 392 Hz (even lower baroque pitch, concert G)
A = 430 Hz (classical pitch, concert.. A half b)
A = 520 Hz (blame Virdung for this one, concert C!)
/// LINKS
- Adrian brown's recorder tuned in A=520
/// INSTRUMENTS
In this video I play on:
- a 466 renaissance soprano by Peter van der Poel
- a 440/415 Ganassi soprano by Stephan Blezinger
- a ??????? transitional G alto by Stephan Blezinger - guess the tuning below ;)
- a 442 alto by Yoav Ran
- a 415 alto by Joachim Rohmer
- a 415 voice flute by Tim Cranmore
- a 466 renaissance tenor by Peter van der Poel
- a 440 Rafi tenor by Francesco Li Virghi
- a 440/415 basset by Yamaha
//// MY DEBUT ALBUM
'Constellations' is out!! It can be ordered on (signed) CD or digital download here: team-recorder....
/////
THE TEAM RECORDER WEBSHOP!
Buy all your TR-related goodies here!
team-recorder....
//////
SUPPORT TEAM RECORDER ON PATREON
A small monthly donation to Team Recorder will help this channel to grow, and you get great rewards too!
/ teamrecorder
/////
Don't forget to check out my other videos, and SUBSCRIBE! Turn notifications on by clicking the 'bell' icon, then you never miss a thing. A new video will be posted every week!
------
Website: www.sarahjeffery.com
Twitter/Instagram @sockmyshoe
Wanna send me stuff? My PO box:
Sarah Jeffery
Keurenplein 41
Box C350
1069CD Amsterdam
The Netherlands
Go #teamrecorder
The quiz was lovely. Thank you. This level of fundamental tuning differences is why I love Indian classical music, too. The theory of all musics covers the brushes, the ink, and the paper of time, because music is how we decorate time.
With combining different pitches of instruments, there are a few Bach cantatas where he was writing for the winds in French Baroque pitch (392) and the strings and organ at hochkammerton (466) giving a minor third difference between the two groups. This difference means that in something like the bassoon part there are low Gs a minor third below the range of the instrument.
Any BWV numbers please?
Wow! That was so interesting (I'm a nerd) and you can completely hear the differences! I now want an alto in Baroque low pitch, it sounds so mellow and lovely.
When I did my first classical project with a choir I never heard of different pitches. We were doing Bach’s Hoge Messe and I practiced very hard at home with a recording. At rehearsals I struggled every time because it seemed a completely different piece. All the notes were there but I couldn’t get a hold on them. Finaly after 3 rehearsals somebody told me we were singing in 415 and I practiced in 440. Turns out, I’m very bad in singing at 415 if I learned it in 440... Now, many years later, I can hear the difference but I still cannot transpose down. It all doesn’t feel right.
Your Choir has to sing at 440 instead of 415 (in other words transpose down a half step) Right?
How can you not transpose?? That is so weird for a singer to not be able to do.
You've given me a whole new appreciation for the recorder!
Thank you so much Sarah for finally explaining to me. Why my molenhower Alto recorder is flat? When I am playing the piano. I had no idea that it was a 415 baroque tuning. I had no idea that I could also purchase a 440 Alto recorder and be able to play in tune with modern instruments. So thank you for explaining this to me. I've been playing my recorders since 1978 and I finally know how these things work. Thanks so much for your video as it was very helpful, yours truly, Ed Saks, San Pedro, California. PS. Merry Christmas!
I really enjoyed this video! It's actually very fun; I love these type of specifications
in my experience, the various aspects of voicing are more important. my hand made stanesby with 402 and 415 centers are round, sweet, and solid - but i think the unusual windway is what gives it the tone it has. My denner 415 and rottenburgh 440 both sound quite nice, with sweet upper registers, reedier lows. my cheap practice instruments? no matter the pitch, they would be better employed as chair legs.
Must get one of those Renaissance pitch sopranos. The neighbour will probably send her cats over to kill me.
Yes! I got all the questions on the quiz right! This was a great video, Sarah!
hey, your Li Virghi Rafi really sounds amazing
Thank YOU for ALL what YOU DO!!!
Brilliant my love thanks for sharing your time and expertise!🙏🙏🙏
I play the viola da gamba
And i find very interesting the pitch differences in the barroque French music. Lui xiv created a law that makes every organ builder build organs at a A 392 pitch. But in the royal chamber music they used a 408 picth. So its very interesting to tune my instrument in 408 and play some music like marais, because you can really fell the instrument getting more ressonant.
He made this law because organ players were making organs in a high picth, because it's cheaper. Anyways love your channel. Congrats from brasil
8:49 XD Loved it. Thanks for sharing Sarah Jeffery
2:30 Reminds me of the flute entry in Ravel's Piano Concerto 2nd mvt
Somewhere sometime I heard a story, how in one locality the musicians traditionally used a semitone different tuning than their neighbors - because the tone of the church bells was such differed in two towns.
Thank you so much for clarifying this information for all of us. It was very helpful :)
This answered so many questions! Thank you!
👍 Uit het land van de windmolens, dijken en klompen was dat een leuke en informatieve video. 😊 🎶
Awesome lessons and info. I LOVE the recorder!!
Thank you very informative. Now I understand why my recorder (baroque) sounds off to my 440 tuning. Not to nerdy but close!
Have you seen Elam Rothem’s video on pitch at Early Music Sources? “Historical Pitch?”
442 Hz ? Who knew there was a frequency for footballers who played the recorder, not to be confused with 433 or 541 of course. You make tuning so entertaining and informative Sarah. Many thanks.
In Argentinian Tango groups, the bandoneon (the lead instrument) was frequently tuned to 442 Hz while the rest were tuned 440 Hz. The theory was that it allowed the bandoneon to cut through the mix and be heard more clearly.
I feel a lot of difference actually. If I was in blind test, I would be confused if it was really A in 415 Hz.
Thank you for the video! It is useful and informative as usual 👍
You have so many recorders... it's almost scaring !! ;-) - in a good way.
So...this means my 440 tenor is also a voice flute in 392, right? Cool - I have a voice flute!
The most extreme pitch I’ve seen mentioned is A=520 … Edit: I wrote a few moments before hearing them said in this episode 😣
Virdung had to get some additional keys so that he could go down in pitch. The recorders at 520 (C sounds an Eb) include the Ab Baritenor Recorder (in between the C Tenor & the True F Baritone), the Eb Alto Recorder, & finally a Bb Mezzo-Soprano Recorder. Has anybody ever played a Mezzo-Soprano Recorder?
I understand the practical reasons for have modern baroque pitch at a-415, but I was wondering what are your thoughts on baroque instruments tuned closer to their original pitch, which usually is lower. For example, I have a Bressan alto tuned at its original pitch of a-408, but I've also played on copies of this same Bressan tuned up to a-415, and down to a-392. Of course this is subjective, but I find the instruments tuned at the original pitch or the lower a-392 have much a more luxurious sound that the one tuned at a-415, better suited to play baroque music pre-1750.
392hz is used for french baroque music
very good explained!
I see a lot of A = 442 Hz instruments. What is that for?
Edit: never mind, you answered later on in the video.
Thnx for this great video!
I prefer baroque. However I have perfect pitch so sometimes it irritates me as it’s not what I’m expecting to hear aha
Exactly! I have that too😂😁
I have the same problem. My brain knows what pitch is supposed to come out for a particular fingering.
I have the "second flute" and the "sixth flute" in German fingering. The sixth is a cracking instrument; I should definitely play it more. The G recorder is useful in traditional Celtic sessions. I've an original 1926 Peter Harlan in Baroque pitch; lovely sound, but Harlan never made recorders; he simply stuck his name on the early ones, and his, again, were all German fingering. My favourite German fingered recorder is probably my Sonora tenor in A440, which has a lovely sound. I call it Number 7, after its serial number.
Would you ever use a baroque pitch recorder as a "recorder in E" to play passages in difficult keys easier? like how clarinetists play clarinet in Bb or in A.
I m so sorry for asking this type of question. My recorder has three separate parts, but I left it for such a long time that I am unable to separate each part any more to clean :((. I wonder if there is a way to overcome this problem. My recorder made from plastic.
Sarah Jeffery / Team Recorder 466 means that a C Soprano Recorder becomes a C-sharp Recorder that transposes up a half step right?
I've been mulling over this problem for a while, having issues when playing along with professional recordings (my Moeck recorders are a half tone sharp) and yesterday while trialling out the online sheet music / play along source TomPlay (my recorders are a half a tone flat!!!) Obvs I can pull out the head joint a bit so I play flatter but playing more sharp is impossible unless I blow really hard which isn't right either. I'm wondering if this will be a real issue when I join a consort - if recorders are pitched differently - or playing with piano accompaniment.
415 and thank you for teaching my children
Very clarifying! Thank you. But failed the test...
faltam legendas em português... por favor...grazie !
I heard the difference straight away!
Baroque 415 hz 2:30
Modern 440 hz 2:15
Renaissance 466 hz 2:23
Hi Sarah! Thanks for your videos. They are really helpful and also fun to watch!!! I have a quick, perhaps silly question. I recently got a soprano recorder, produced by Eastar. It seems that A is tuned at 425 Hz. Is this even a possible option?
A=415 Hz is not exactly a semitone lower than the modern pitch, but just roughly. According to Roel's World, it said "roughly a semitone lower than the modern standard concert pitch of A4=440Hz".
What about the weird tuning where A = 432 Hz ?
Apparently Giuseppe Verdi preferred A = 432 Hz and wrote and conducted in this pitch. During his lifetime orchestras where tuning higher and higher and he did not favour this development. He lost out as lots of orchestras was tuning their A in the 450-460 range in the 1890. Pitch inflation like this where the A gradually moves up was one of the resons for standardising A = 440 Hz. Unfortunately nutty German conspiracy theorists in the 1980s decided that A = 432 Hz was something god-given and started writing all kinds of creazy things about it instead of just being like, hey I like this lower tuned A, I'm going to have fun with it.
it can be nerdy but it is very useful
I’d like to break an argument for scientific pitch (C₄ = 256 Hz, a power of two), which is equivalent to Verdi pitch (A₄ ≈ 430 Hz). Using the C as reference tone has some benefits (the supposedly-Bach tunings often start from C) and using a power of two as base is also… somehow fitting.
But, yeah, we have to play along others…
Dear Sarah, what do you do if the organ is a bit too low (A=438) or too sharp (A=442) and you have only your recorder (A=440) with you? To blow softer or harder?
You can tune your recorder by pulling out the head joint little tiny bit.
Oh my! I got all those tunings right.
Oohhhhh, so I have about 10 recorders, i tried playing a piece with choir and could not get the pitch. Brought a couple more from home including my lovely wood and even the treble and sopranino. No good. Played them all using the pitch app and yes, about a semitone “out”. Narrowed it down to 416hz on the app. Figured the pitch was different in recorders for some weird reason. Now you have explained it, just my bad luck that every recorder I own is in baroque. I guess now i have to buy myself a modern 440hz recorder or three.
Hmmm, that’s interesting! Do you kind sharing what make your recorders are? Baroque recorders tend to be much rarer as they are typically handmade, or at least come at a higher price point. Buying 10 would set you back at least $5000..! Unless I’m misunderstanding?
@@Team_Recorder I haven’t bought any new at all. Most are plastic, two wooden, all mixed brands. But all pitch to A at 416. I live in Australia if that makes a difference.
Good day ! All hope is on you. My name is Yaroslav and I live in Russia. Recently acquired an alto recorder from Mollenhauer. She's from a pear, model Denner. the flute is filled almost immediately and it starts to hoarse. The flute was purchased on August 23. The unit is whole without a crack. Should the new flute behave this way? Can anti-condensation help? Or should I return it to the store? Tell me please! :)
I had a troublesome instrument like this. I fixed it by holding it up-side down with the edge on the lower edge, then putting anti-condens through the labium. The idea is to wet the windway without letting the liquid touch the edge.
Unless you have perfect pitch it's not very likely you can notice the difference, although you can definitely notice the difference when you try to play with other people and your instrument's pitch standard doesn't match with other players' instruments. Personally, I don't see much point in using so many pitch standards since it can make you own so many variations of the same instrument. Most people can't tell the difference and those with perfect pitch can be annoyed by that.
If one has perfect pitch and happens to be interested in early music, that person should definitely put some effort into learning a new reference point.
I don't have perfect pitch, and each of the tunings clearly have a different feel and tone. Everything has its place.
Hi Sarah, thank you for this information. / A simple question for understanding please :-) .. so when I have the chance to play with other people, "we" all have sort of the same Denner-derivate factory product, and only SAT. So there never was an issue, simply "pulling out" the heads of some recorders. Now some were buying a dream recorder .. from Mollenhauer. Probably not an issue either. However. Does that that theory mean, when one gets more to the professional music - people all, actually, needed the "same style" recorder? or, whoever had a "differing one" had to transpose? .. thanks for an answer, if someone had the time
Are they in equal temperament
415 Hz is tuned roughly a semitone lower.
Yes I can hear :-) I am a violinist and I am tuning at 442 :)
hard to tell anyway but hidden within vibrato?
@@SteadfastDV Maybe :)
I have perfect pitch and love baroque music but this 415Hz thing is killing me. I know it is the right tuning for that period but the second one that you played was A-flat minor for me :(
You've probably been asked this already, but how many recorders do you own?..
I'm not Sarah but in 2016 she uploaded a video showing her collection and she had 16 at that time...maybe now she has more than that? Less? Personally I think the collection is bigger now but who knows
Sarah Jeffery / Team Recorder The Soprano Recorder at 415 is actually a Recorder in B. Instruments at A415 transpose down a half step, instruments at 466 transpose up a half step.
I want to get a 432hz one, for mainly playing/recording with my brother's hippy band haha.
So the A clarinet is just a B-flat clarinet in baroque pitch huh?
Very interesting, thanks. I'm a maker of wooden flutes, selling to clients who tend to be on the hippy spectrum. There's this nonsense idea going around that our 'in tune with the Earth' ancestors (!) tuned to A= 432. So fully half the instruments that leave the workshop are tuned thus. Ironically, they are tuned to the (obviously unnatural) equal temperament. Well, this sure turned into a confession.
Wonderful discussion Sarah -- I really love your Team Recorder videos! Question: I'm about to buy a Mollenhauer Waldorf Alto (wide bore) for general ensemble work including folk and Middle Eastern music. It comes in A442 but one of the very dedicated and expert dealers offers, and recommends, that his shop will adjust it to 440 where it belongs. From what I hear, for ensemble work with groups in the US and UK that makes sense, but Europe and the Middle East tend to hover around 442. I play in the Middle East, Australia and the US. It might seem to make sense to stay at 442 and pull out the barrel when necessary. BUT: in your experience, is there a significant difference in tuning or pitch of certain notes if you take a 442 and pull out the barrel a bit for 440, vs an instrument tuned at 440? Is there an effect on reaching the low F and G? And is there an effect on timbre? Thanks!
Hi! Hmm, good question. On the spot it’s always easier to adjust a recorder down 2 hz (by pulling out) rather than adjusting up, so I’d indeed stick with 442. If you notice you’re alwaya having to pull out and still struggling, then you can think about adjusting to 440, but I’d see how you get on first. Good luck, and enjoy!
@@Team_Recorder Thanks so much, Sarah, for your rapid and thoughtful reply. Truly, your site is one of the most delightful, refreshing and richly informative on UA-cam -- and beyond.
Possibly a silly beginner question. If I have a modern 440 Alto recorder, will I still be able to play baroque music, for fun only, as written and without the need to do any complicated transposing and the like? Or should I have bought a more expensive baroque recorder at 415? As a complete beginner, I opted for the Zen-On Bressan G-1A 'Giglio' Alto A=440, any views?
You can play it the same. It will just sound higher pitched by about one semitone. How is it going?
I think a lesson on modality is a-comin'. :-D
Intresting
what was the piece played at the beginning to compare the two?
I loved this video! I play guitar, ( not very well, LOL) I decided I want to play recorder too and have been watching your videos for a few days now. I think I'm going to get the entry-level Yamaha yrs24b recorder. Is that in 440hz? Any other suggestions for an entry-level recorder for an adult? I greatly appreciate it TR.
You probably already got your recorder and found it was much easier to play than you're guitars. Buy a recorder or a set of expensive strings for the guitar. Somethings wrong when your music book costed more than your instrument. lol
@@denkeylee LOL!!
I'm really late to the party, but here's the thing. I want to play my modern pitch recorder with a baroque violin in a duet - is it okay for me just to pull out until I'm a semitone flat?
I don't think it will go that far.
A half tone between the both.
I hear something.
I cannot tel if the difference is the frequency itself, or the harmonic content.
The sound of the old instrument is definitively more dark.
i have perfect pitch so I definitely hear it. It becomes very annoying when playing on piano with modern pitch and having to play violin with baroque pitch
Dicen que Bach afinaba sus órganos a 490!!!???????😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
I tuned my violin to 415 and it changed my life, I physically feel better when I play now I don't get headaches after practicing something difficult either.
That is very interesting. Do you consider a baroque violin as well or do you like to play more classical music and modern music? A baroque violin is not that loud. I play the violin a little bit myself but sometimes I find it too loud, too close to my ear so I use the sordino a lot.
@@ankavoskuilen1725 yes, I enjoy a more intimate sound if I'm playing with friends or for myself. If I could at all afford a fitting instrument I just might but down tuning my modern violin has been rewarding so far.
@@wolfgangyoung6309 It is a great idea! Especially when you don't have the money for another instrument.
Eyes closed, first is renaissance (because it is in C# major, which would be C major in Renaissance pitch), second is baroque (because it is in g flat major which would be G major) and third is modern
I can tell the difference very easily
They're just transposing instruments (as demonstrated when you played modern pitch D against high pitch C), except recorder players are weird and you don't treat your instruments as transposing but have to learn a whole new set of fingerings for recorders in different keys at "modern pitch" right?
It’s no different to clarinet players, who habitually use f based fingerings in the lower register and c based fingerings in the upper register and don’t think twice about it. Unless you are referring to recorders in g and d, when yes, it is a bit odd!
@@johnfenn3188 I don't know if it's the same for g and d recorders. (though I would venture a guess a lot of people here do know.) I've heard that about the clarinet related to recorders before. I guess it's because you overblow 12th so sometimes it's useful to think about your high register as a transposition at the 5th from your low register? You can do the same thing on flutes, recorders (maybe not because the mouthpiece is not so friendly for overblowing?), anything with a full harmonic series too; it's just those aren't the normal fingerings except on like Renaissance transverse flutes and things. I was referring to the whole instrument transposing. Most Clarinets are in Bb (which is the same as the "Baroque pitch" in this video but we don't call it that, we just say Bb and transpose the part to play with other players... so are period Bb chalumeaus and things actually just in Ab but you call it Bb at low pitch?) There are C and A clarinets and the only clarinet player I've met who regularly used her C clarinet used it to cover oboe parts, so she was using the two like transposing instruments, reading the same music for the same fingerings with it coming out in two different keys depending on the pitch of the instrument.
I play C and F recorders as well as Bb Clarinet. I spend a lot if my life playing unintentional harmonies! 😳
Brilliant, but next time you say nerdy I will understand technical and/or advanced. You can hardly tune a recorder as you would do a mandolin. And yet... Thank you for your insight.
466
Dear Sarah
I remember reading an article that said A=440 hz has been weaponized. That perticular frequency is disruptive to organic life at the celluar level, it also causes physiological disturbances. The best pitch are ones that can be divided into 3's. For example A=315. Have you heard this theory?
I've heard it, and that's ridiculous. Our pitch standards are arbitrary, and based on another arbitrary classification - "Time".
If they mean "weaponized" as in "Used in loops repeatedly for a poor imitation of 'Music'" as in "Rap", then I'd agree, though... 🤣
22nd Century Review - whenever you are exposed to a 'theory' such as this, you should ask what scientific studies have been done that show the effect of A440hz on the cellular structure of living things, and also ask if any theories as to how the effect might be occurring have been hypothesised. I suspect that a few poorly designed and uncontrolled experiments have been carried out that amount to no evidence at all. Lastly, do you know why frequencies that have numbers you can divide by 3 should be better for our health: what is the underlying theory around this idea? Sounds like number theory woo to me (like the Bible code nonsense)
Well someone in comments said they don’t get headaches after playing anymore since they started tuning their instrument down to 415. There are surely people who must be sensitive or easily overstimulated by certain volumes or tones. Our bodies are like 60 percent water.
@@Oaktreealley This has nothing to do with frequency being disruptive on a celluar level. If anything it has to do with how the bones and fluids in your ear are and how many cochlear hair cells and how much you have of the inner and outer type you have and how it effects how you sense sound. After all we know that young people can be aware of much higher frequencies than adults. There is bound to be individual differences to this also.
To be honest about this...yes I can tell the difference between the 440 and 415 pitches BUT only when they are compared with each other straight away.
I don't know why manufacturers even bother now to vary from concert pitch of 440 hZ
One can still play Baroque pieces on 440 pitch.
You would need perfect pitch to be hurt by the difference.
If you have perfect pitch then thats a problem coz the whole damn globe is out of tune.
Nothing is right!
US and UK always make a mess with all kind of standard. Kinda annoying, never thought they even did it in music! (face-palm)
solnegrolunaroja - really? You sound as though you think the UK always matches up with the US on measurements: they do not. The US gallon is smaller than the UK gallon for example, and the UK tends to use metric more often than the US does. Also, please give some examples where the US and UK make a mess of standardisations/measurements.
Can someone explain what the point is of lowering the pitch by a semi tone intead of something unique in between? This is not changing pitch its literally just transposition! Youre still stuck in the exact same soundscape of a 440hz instrument. I find this utterly ridicilous and frankly suspicious that people would be so keen to stay stuck in the modern standard spectrum. With the excuse of practicality. Youre missing out on a whole spectrum of pitches between semitones.
5d3d
415 sounded much more etherial
luister eens naar "das tempierte klavier", verklaart alles
ye olde pitche
Finally! I get why some of my recorders are “out of tune” with my tuning fork (440 hz). What’s the best thing to do when trying to play with other instruments who are tuned to 440? I can’t yet afford a load of differently tuned recorders unfortunately... and transposing makes it sound plain wrong (having watched your tuning video, I also finally realise why!). Thank you Sarah & Team Recorder; I’m very glad I stumbled across your UA-cam channel 😁
That is my concern, too. Most people likely want a recorder for playing in tune with familiar modern songs because they do not aspire to being a concert performer. They just want to goof around.
I started playing recorder because of you, It's so fun thank you so much!
A very clarifying video about pitch, you can go even nerdier by explaining different tunings, quarter middletone, the several baroque tunings. As pitch is only one aspect of harmonics. The subtle difference is that Renaissance music sounds a little off when played in equal tempered tuning (modern) and great when played in quarter middletone.
I really like 415, but the first 15 minutes I play on my 415 alto, I notice that I try to 'correct' the tone as in my mind the tone that I play is a semitone too low.
i love that you explain it gracefully.
i hate some people think we academic musicians are nuts. How the hell do i explain to them that guitar strings used to be guts,ergo you tuned to whatever your gut strings resonated the better, and would vary as they dried...
All of this because I sometimes want to use modern tools to do songs that match the tuning of the lead instrument :P
A problem with a Ganassi with 415 and 440 bodies is when you use the wrong one for a performance. Don’t ask how I know this ...
hahaaa
4:35 Why am I so vulgar xD
Sarah Jeffery / Team Recorder 7:59 You forgot to Tell me that the 415 Body is a Bit longer than the 440 body, so it's a bit lower in pitch. Although recorders come in all 12 keys, some of them transpose to a different pitch other than C, like Renaissance Recorders.
The subtitles/close caption is really good, However... at 7:30 there is an interesting (hilarious) interpretation when Sarah says 'and believe it or not' ;-)
UNBELIEVER ALLAH
Good Day! i have a question madam. How to transpose B Soprano recorder E, G, C, B, A into G Alto recorder?
Soprano C, B, A to transpose to G Alto it's complicated pitch G, F#, E T_T there another way? to transpose and sounds like C, B, A Soprano to G Alto recorder? please help me! Thankyou and God bless you!
Thanks for the discussion and the quiz. I'm heading to meet friends to play Bach at 415. We love that sound. If you have not done so yet, how about a video on temperaments in the construction of recorders and compromises between temperament and just intonation? When we play later music on our mean tone tuned recorders, we cannot stand the sound. Why?