Thanks for showing us the life of an EV owner!! I greatly appreciate this as it helps me understand what will need to be considered when purchasing now until more charge points are added throughout the US!!
When at the Recargo charging station and you are the only one there, plug in to the station to the left of the spot you are parked at rather than the station in front of the car. You will reduce the stress on the charger port and get a good start right away. I do this at Electrify America stations.
I dont know much about all electric cars but I would like to know how many miles you traveled total and what the actual cost was for comparison to an ice car. thanks
I usually go over the full range and trip time at the end. Perhaps adding a chart or graph would help? In this case, this was not a typical trip. I was driving out of my way in heavy traffic to test out chargers I might not otherwise use, so the costs and time would be more misleading than helpful.
Yes, I would recommend PlugShare. It's community driven, so uses can add and update charging sites. You can also filter the displayed charging sites based on your needs.
At Recargo Station comments that the station is well lite..."even at night" ..would you light it during the day?? lol ....Good video on how it all work...thanks
Thanks for all the time you spend educating us EV drivers and other thinking about shifting away from ICV. One question: All my friends have laughed at me saying that I will never sale or trade my Bolt mainly due to a degraded battery. Those comments send shills on my spine as I only depend on a modest salary. Was I wrong when I bought my EV? Will their prophecy be fullfilled?
How many miles do you plan to put on your Bolt EV? If you would be fine with 180 to 200 miles of range after putting 200,000 miles on the car, why worry?
@@newscoulomb3705 I commute to work and do short errands on weekends. I have put so far 3K miles since last March 2018. I intend to drive only when needed and use my bike weather permitting. I charge the battery at home using only the slow 110 volt connection.
@@pedinomefaux I really don't think you have much to worry about, then. I'd just make sure that you only charge to 80-90% (Hilltop Reserve Mode or Charge Termination).
Eduardo Villegas you are actually going to see the best overall results. Just make sure to not run your battery below 20% and not charge over 85% unless absolutely necessary. Precondition all your trips while you are plugged in as well.
News Coulomb - 76k miles and how much battery degradation on yours to date? Single digits %, I’d say. Looks like Eduardo made a good choice in picking a Bolt for the long term.
Wow Electrify America is expensive. That calculated out to about $0.75 per kilowatt unless my math was completely off. I think Tesla charges $0.25 for superchargers. I'd like to see Electrify come down a bit in price. Or does Electrify charge based on time rather than power drawn? Did you say the max speed on those chargers was 50kwh?
West coast electricity cost is triple or more the coast of a kilowatt in Florida or Tennessee. Strangely the progressive states cost for electricity is very hight which kinda makes the point of going to electric powered cars kind of moot unless gas is also taxed so high that it makes it a better deal to use electric power that although also taxed too high is still less that the same power provided by fossil fuels. But you are still screwed just less so with electric powered cars. Lets also consider what a damper on the trip that a brownout causes if it occurs when you must have a charge to progress while a full tank of gas would take you out of the brownout area and you are good to go which is the top priority for considering a fuel source, it must be available and should not be interrupted by somebody parked at one of two chargers or both are down for a regularly scheduled California brownout.
@@arthurtennessen9680 California rates are $.18 per kw. That's only .07 more than Florida's average rate of $.11. Hardly triple. As for "going electric" not being worth it; sorry to say that isn't true either. Based on fuel cost alone, an electric car even in CA will cost you half of what gas will annually. In regards to brown outs that you mention twice. Gas pumps run on electricity and go down when the electricity goes down. And to the "kid crying in the back seat" argument (mentioned in your next post). When I travel across state, (5 hour drive), my charging stops are 20-30 mins. I make two of those stops. This allows me plenty of time to get out, stretch, pee, grab a bite to eat and typically my car is ready to go before I am. My trip is more pleasant for it too. My 3 kids are grown now, but I can safely say that when they were toddlers, I used to let them burn off some energy before getting back in the car. Each to their own. I've never spent an hour at a charger. As stated above, the majority of charging stops are 20-30 mins. Usually closer to 20. Weather does play into that, colder days tend to be nearer to 30 as the car protects its battery by charger a bit slower in the extreme cold.
@@Kuth70 And if what gasoline price analysts are telling us comes true, that gasoline could get very expensive this summer thanks to a paucity of drivers needed to deliver the gas to the filling stations, then these EV autos could wind up being even more economical.
Well, I think it's more than just that. The problem is, most of the vehicles are electric, but they can't/aren't using the chargers. I think they need to be ticketed $250 if not plugged in and charging.
I noticed that you are driving in " Sport Mode," is there a benefit to that in terms of extending the range on the highway? I would have thought just the opposite.
The Recargo & Electrify America are pretty nice. Chargepoint is still popular in Canada. EVgo while probably the oldest & most developed certainly feels its age. Well at least they work well.
Eric - man those Recargo chargers are nice! Big displays which show you a lot of stuff. This is the parent of Chargepoint? You’d never know it by looking at those chargers. Thanks for taking us along. Interesting comment re strategy thoughts for which chargers to use along your route. Hopefully access to/from main thoroughfares, food choices, and shopping choices come into play as well, as choices are made for where to place these multiple charger setups. EV drivers and passengers, for now anyway, have a little bit of time on their hands when they stop for a charge. How best to turn that into a commercial opportunity? You had mentioned rest area chargers got approved for CA. Interesting to see if this turns a rest area into more of a “travel center” as time goes by.
Great coverage man! A used Tesla with supercharging included and all those miles you have driven may have cost similar to your bolt? Around when u bought your bolt they were able to be found (S 85) in the US for mid 40s and low 50s. Especially night of semi unveil, super cheap ones hit all at once. 30k range too. We bought our used model S in October and still have ppwk issues w Tesla but wife is loving the car compared to the leaf. (Bought used for 38k) that bolt has quite a lot of life in it tho.... man. So many choices now.
I had a thought about your trip North before Thanksgiving. Do you think that Nissan's "no charge to charge" program contributes to charger abuse like that Leaf at 100% blocking the charging station?
Not for the chargers I usually rely on. The no charge to charge seems to be a bigger issue in cities with local drivers using public charging instead of charging at home. Outside of cities, it's usually not an issue.
Keith McDonnell Hi. Blame not the program but persons that have little sense of community like ones I see parked by chargers w/o charging just because is convenient. These seems to be a parallel to the drivers that block handicap slots illegally. Thanks
@@Rhaman68 I saw that for the first time a week ago. I was charging L2 and a leaf parked next to me at another L2 and went directly into the Mall I was at without even plugging in. I sat in my car, and moved it as soon as I reached 95% (I had moved from CCS to L2 after I hit 90%)
Well, now that the volt will die soon, I'm thinking that I might as well get the Bolt EV. I seem to agree with you, Recargo seems to be a very good site. Electrify America is building sites in the midwest to be opened next year, so I'm not too worried. As long as I have chargers spaced every 180 miles along freeways, I'm happy.
Adithya Ramachandran - 180 miles is a good number for the Bolt. Cold weather trips take a bunch of that away, though, which makes a Bolt less practical for long journeys in cold weather.
They need electric fast chargers at every 35 to 50 miles down main highways. So many electric vehicles that are affordable only go 35 to 82 miles and the range normally is around 40 to 50 miles for most cheaper electric cars. The chevy spark ev goes only 50 miles on average as its battery degrades over time and never stays at 82 miles when its new just like The bolts batteries will degrade over time as well and that 220 to 240 mile range will go down to under 180 over time to. So these charging spots need to figure that in to. To be safe with electric cars they need to at minimum be as frequently available as gas station stops. So every 35 to 50 miles for electric chargers needs to be the norm otherwise electric cars just wont and cant take off like they could. Most people can't afford 30k or more ev's. They buy cheap sparks used and others like them used that can't go long range like 30 to 100k electric cars can. Not everyone can afford or get a Tesla. If I'm going to get a electric car and ditch gas cars then they better have chargers every 35 to 50 miles down the highway or put better batteries in electric cars to get 400 miles at least. And with normal degradation over time they would still get at least 300 miles and at the minimum 200 miles in the winter. Anything under 200 miles just isn't practical with cars only going 50 mile ranges on the norm for electric cars. People will kee buying used gas cars for a few grand and can go everywhere with them without range anxiety. They need to make them go wzy further and bring the cost way down or electric cars will just stop being a thing over time.
Hey NC, nice video and nice smattering of chargers. I would love to see a table of: Vendor kWh price $/khw start-end pct for this trip. Like EvShmo 35.2 $10.50 $0.24 15%-63% Also a total spent and total miles driven. I am still quite skeptical on the Electrify America pricing structure. It seems outrageous, and until it's adjusted I see no point in wanting more of their chargers. Visiting them would only be for desperation or to make UA-cam videos. :-)
So, are you saying that for 2017 Bolts that at some chargers you have to hold it a certain way to start the charge? And, have you heard that there are two battery series in the 2017's...version 1 and version 2 and that if I'm looking for a used 2017 I should look for the sticker on the battery saying version 2?
It's true for some 2018s as well. I haven't seen the issue with 2019 or 2020 MY. There's no need to check the battery version. The V1 battery might have only been the initial build of a few thousand Bolt EVs. I think someone said their March 2017 build had Version 2. Regardless, it issue is with the socket, not the battery.
@@newscoulomb3705 so it might be Vins that point to being built in February or earlier of a given model year? What exactly is the issue with the socket?
@@blindponyband It's not clear. It appears that the weight of the cord pulls the top of the plug away from the socket, which breaks communication with the charger during activation. Simply lifting the plug is enough to ensure a proper connection.
It would be good to see the max distance you can get on a full charge, hypermiling, in normal warm weather, and then in cold weather, below 25F degree using the heater.
John Smith - 300 miles or more (hypermiling) is easy in the summer or warm months, if the avg speed is 55 or less. Bolt is super efficient when in warm air and not a lot of speed. Heat demands for cold weather are only excessive for short trips or the first part of a longer trip. Once the car and battery are warmed up, you can still get close to 3 mi/kWh with temps in the 20s. Big swings in efficiency (when exposed to obstacles such as wind) are present with any high efficiency car, but because the battery also supplies heat, cold weather effect is a double hit in the Bolt.
Is the issue here the Bolt EV range OR general cost of KWs or problems with electrify American cost/availability. If I charge 80+% at home no problems with a Bolt or for that matter any quality EV?
Yes, this was mostly a snapshot of the different providers. For the most part, you'd be charging at home. This is mostly pertinent for trips or when you're out of town.
How would ice cars like us ev drivers pulling up to a gas station and taking the spots beside the gas tanks and going inside to get snacks and not buy gas. They should put that in their pipe and smoke it! By the way, I just purchased a 2020 Kia Niro EV EX Premium, and I absolutely love it. Congrats on the Bolt!
I'm sure there are, but I gave up on Blink a long, long time ago. As far as I know, they don't have any DCFC, which are the only thing I'll use on long trips.
No, it wouldn't reach. Some vehicles have to back in (BMW i3, Hyundai Ioniq Electric, VW e-Golf, etc), but any of the vehicles with front DCFC ports, like the Audi e-Tron, Chevy Bolt EV, Jaguar I-Pace, Porsche Taycan, etc. will have to pull front end in first.
@@shtunot I don't know that I agree. It's a pretty standard configuration. Having the chargers protrude out into the parking spaces takes a larger footprint. Electrify America's charging sites are both end of the parking space and between parking spaces. I guess that over time, we will see which configuration is best. Tesla also uses both types of layouts (sometimes at the same site).
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. All they would need to do is lengthen the cable so the reach would be comfortable with either a “head in” or “ back in” parking. If you had two feet more length to that charge cable it would be fine.
Love to see "WALMART" have about 6+ charge stations near front of store. Walmart knows the Customer will have an hour+ to shop during the charge! We will know that if you go to Walmart to shop there will be charge stations too!
My son works for a state transportation planning agency and Walmart, Shell (and other gas stations) all have plans for major EV charging points in the next 5 years. I believe he said Walmart told the state that ALL Walmarts will have them by 2025 (but he doesn’t believe them).
@@newscoulomb3705 I have Nissan LEAF and appreciate its front charge port. If it was on the side of car, it seems you have to stretch the cable more to reach it, as most chargers are located in the position best for head-in parking and usage, not like gas stations configurations where the side port for gas is better suited.
Thought the Bolt could charge at up to 80kW. Your max was 56?? Thanks for the effort to document this; it would have been nice to have a brief uniform summary (time, kWh, cost, max rate) after each charge. A bit confused about how much of the limitations were due to the charging station and how much due to vehicle battery mgmt. system.
GM noted 80 kW to indicate the charger speed required for maximum charging rate (56 kW). For some reason, that is common practice. Hyundai and Kia list their vehicles as "100 kW" even though they only charge at 70 kW. It's a bit easier to track charging rates using amps. The Bolt EV's max charging current is 150 A, which is faster than most public chargers open right now.
@@newscoulomb3705 Yes, you would need over 200A to get 80kW @ 380-390V. Our Leaf is rated 50kW and can charge at 49kW (with 150A in Europe); we only get 45kW @ 125A in NorCal. Wish PlugShare would let you filter by charger current. Recargo is not listed as a network on PlugShare even though they made PlugShare?
Hey I recently drove my bolt to Vegas from my home town Los Angeles I used EVgo chargers a few times that was almost two months ago still haven’t charged me anyone know what might be going on?
there are no videos on UA-cam showing us how Chevy bolt owners find fast chargers on road trips. in my bmw i3 or Tesla our navigation system can locate fast chargers along our route. how does bolt owner do this?
After the recent price increase on the Superchargers, the Electrify America chargers are only about double, but Electrify America stated that they are reworking their fee schedule. The EVgo and Recargo chargers are about the same cost as the Superchargers at this point (though EVgo did recently bump up their prices).
The Bolt EV is a step up from previous EVs, but I think we need to expect better, soon. The Bolt EV, e-Niro, and Kona Electric are all going to need to push their charging speeds up for wider adoption.
Completely agree with you! Charging times and the Super Charger network in general remains Tesla's biggest advantage across their whole product line. There is little to no hope from me that the public charging network as well as non-tesla car manufacturers understand this fact and are working in concert to change it. Just look at these charge time estimates from Chargepoint on upcoming EVs (check the graph at the bottom) www.chargepoint.com/blog/10-notable-new-electric-vehicles-coming-your-way-2019/? We're just now getting a few cars that can take advantage of 100kW chargers, much less the 300 kW chargers that Tesla will start phasing into their network that already runs at 120kW. The advantage is truly staggering when long travel is primary use of the car. However! Long range travel is not the primary use of most cars. My Bolt usually gets charged a measly 10 kW per day, and that is usually enough. I have taken it on long trips though, and the Tesla would have saved me about 3 hours versus the Bolt on charging times on my example trip.
It's still too early for there to be crowding at corridor EV fast charging sites. There will have to be a lot more sales of non-Tesla cars that can charge as fast or faster than the Bolt EV for the demand to build. We need Kona EV, Niro EV, iPace, eTron, EQ-C, etc and of course, the EA chargers will fill up first because they will be the fastest chargers available for charging en-route. Today, I think most Bolt EV owners have another car that they would rather drive on a long trip. Hence the lack of crowding, even on a holiday weekend.
We already see some "crowding" at public charging sites, but it's nothing like what Tesla sees at their Superchargers. Someone on the Bolt EV forums broke down the math a bit, and it turns out that, despite having a lead in the number of chargers, Tesla actually has twice as many vehicles per charger as CCS equipped vehicles. And you're right, probably half of those CCS vehicles aren't typically used for long trips (or they have REX like the i3), so they won't impact the infrastructure in the same way. The good news is, by the time those other CCS vehicles appear in any real numbers, California will likely have far more CCS plugs than there are Superchargers, so people using the public charging infrastructure might never see those long wait times.
As EV drivers, we all hope that charging infrastructure will keep up with user demand, be it Superchargers or industry standard chargers. However, history has shown that there is not a profit motive for private companies to build inter-city charging infrastructure. Every major DCFC network build-out has had a major government influenced component. - EVgo started in California with a State mandate from the NRG settlement. - CEC awarded grants for corridor fast charging two years ago that is just now coming online. - Electrify America is due entirely to the dieselgate settlement. Tesla is the only one who is building a charging network without government support or mandate. EVgo is leveraging contributions from automakers to increase their penetration, but it's mostly for sites that will see regular use in metro areas, not inter-city corridors that would have more intermittent usage. I will also point out that most of the crowding at fast charging sites is in metro areas, not rural inter-city charging sites. This applies equally to Superchargers and industry standard chargers. Superchargers only get crowded at rural sites during major holiday travel periods. To my amazement, the 40 stall Kettleman City Supercharger did achieve 100% utilization for short periods during this Thanksgiving holiday week. Your forecast of CCS plugs to Superchargers is unlikely to come true due to Tesla's continued network build-out and unmatched EV production. Also, I expect that Tesla will eventually release a CCS adapter for North American cars, much to the chagrin of non-Tesla drivers.
This ICEed issue does disturb me not for daily use but for long distance travel. In my local EV club I told them we should call a local TV station and stage a fake EV park in at a gas station but no one thought it was a good idea. Just as a gage for a few minutes to get a video plug but the other EVer thought we might get people mad at us.
I've seen people park EVs at gas pumps before. For the most part, it isn't an issue unless the station is busy. These Electrify America sites are mostly for local travel (50 kW). The fastest long-distance charging sites they are putting in look to be in better locations (less likely to be ICE'd).
@9:45 I think that’s a reasonable billing, $1+ 35¢/min. It cost you 78¢/kWh, but that was for a test. And that’s just a 50 kW charger, right? Once they get 150 kw chargers they need a formula like $1 + 25¢/kWh + 20¢/min. Alternatively they can use a system that charges you $1 plus the higher of either 35¢/kWh or 35¢/min, so as long as you charge at 60kw or higher, you pay just for the electricity, not the parking space. And if you aren’t charging, you pay 35¢/min to park there while plugged in.
Recharging fees calculated "by the minute" are insane and unfair. Is everybody supposed to sit around and wait until the charge rate falls off as the battery moves closer to full so they don't needlessly get ripped off? What about in winter conditions when charge rates fall off considerably due to cold batteries? Conversely, a huge "by the minute fee" could be applied once a battery is full so that people don't just leave their car parked in an electric vehicle charging spot and go shopping for an extended period. As far as the $1 hookup fee goes, that too is insane. They're in business and the consumer shouldn't have to pay a fee for THEIR infrastructure every time they show up to be a "customer". I don't pay a fee separately to shove a gas nozzle into my vehicle. If I do, at least it's buried in the price per gallon displayed on the pump. "FEES?, WE DON"T NEED NO STINKIN FEES"!
Clayton Root, in a gas vehicle there is no need because pretty much every vehicle will accept full flow rate of the gas pump. You don’t see pumps labeled as 5 gallon/min, 10 gallon per minute, 20 gallon per minute.100 gallons per minute, so you don’t encounter a situation where a car that can only fill at 1 gallon per minute is tying up the 100 gallon per minute pump. By charging by the minute for chargers, you make sure a person with a slow charging car is not blocking the fast charger. It also helps drive technology because people want cars they can charge to 70%-80% at full rate of the charger, like Spark EV and Hyundai Ioniq. Even the I PACE is set to charge efficiency at a 50 kW DCFC if not in a hurry, or faster at a 100 kw DCFC, or slow charge at home at 7kw. If there are a line of DCFC from 25kw, 50kw, 100kw, you don’t want a Tesla 100D hogging the 25kw, so you make sure using that charger cost him more than using the 100 kw charger. And you don’t want a Nissan Leaf with a hot battery using the 100 kw charger, so you make sure that cost more. Every taxi in the world uses the same billing system, because miles alone doesn’t cover the costs, so a time component is also used, as well as the flag drop charge. Same goes for charging, you need a fixed fee to begin a session, and charged per kWh and per minute.
No, that's just the total driving for the day. I tend to not charge for more than 45 minutes to an hour, which typically adds no more than 140 to 160 miles of range.
@@mts982 Oh, it's not just the speed, but it's the speed and the convenience of the location. I try to avoid 24 kW (60 amp) and 40 kW (100 amp) when traveling, unless it's an emergency or I have no other choice. The 50 kW chargers are 125 A, and they are fine; however, I will prioritize >125 A chargers whenever possible. In the case of the Elk Grove chargers, it's mostly about their location. There are other 50 kW chargers closer to the freeway, and there are 150+ kW chargers nearby.
Hey thanks for sharing your experience with your EV. My name is Geoffrey Hodies I have a UA-cam channel under my name. I mostly go over the operations of my Tesla model 3. I bought the performance version two months ago and I am very happy with it. There’s gonna be a lot of new choices in the next year or two. But I am biased toward Tesla because they always make the highest quality product possible. Plus I really like the auto pilot. I’ll never buy another car without auto pilot again. It makes long trips so much more relaxing.
@6:54 I looked at the satellite view and it looks like they put those chargers in what would be handicapped parking, or best parking in the parking lot for someone going to Walmart. The West side next to the residential area and the East side along the main road had a lot of empty parking spots, meaning nobody will park there because they are lazy. As far as lvl2 plug-in using a spot where a DC fast charger is, that’s also wrong installation. In my opinion should NOT have lvl2 chargers wishing reach of the DCFC parking space, but others are asking for that. I think all the lvl2 chargers, especially if they are welfare chargers, need to be in the worst parking space in the parking lot. It’s going to be real interesting where there are handicapped EV parking spaces.
IMHO - I stopped at a couple of Walmart stores in Ohio this past summer which had single EVgo chargers perhaps too close to one of the entrance doors. In one case the customers were very respectful of the 2 angle park spaces adjacent to the charger (spots were marked), and in the other case (also marked) they were just convenient parking spots, so one was ICEd by more than one car during my charging stint. I don’t think I need to say which one had the more curious customers walking past the charger and checking things out. That one also had L2 chargers in the lot, but they were much further away from the doors - a good plan.
Dennis Lyon, yes, the reality is the only way to put them up front and not get ICEd is to have a tow truck operator like this one: ua-cam.com/video/hJlO7s1hpQU/v-deo.html It’s funny looking at the comments that try to defend the ones breaking the rules. “Only 3 minutes, bla bla bla”, but once a place gets a reputation like that, the ICING will stop. But the logical solution is just put the chargers in the overflow parking area.
IMHO - nice vid you attached. A strategy like that would certainly make people think twice about parking at - or parking too long at - a fast charger! Parking the chargers further from the doors costs more if the building is providing the power. It appears that the multi charger installations are one large transformer away from the grid, so they just need to be near the above or underground power lines, and not necessarily near buildings.
Dennis Lyon, yes, if I was the planner for the DCFC installation in a huge mall parking lot, I would identify all the places I can tap the grid first, then see which is closest to the bad parking spaces, because installation cost has a big affect on return on investment, and the fast I can get a return, the faster I can do another mall parking lot, or add more chargers to an existing location. I’ve been all over the US and all over the World, and there is no escaping the “it’s all about me” mentality. It’s very common in Asia, but mostly in a clueless, non-aggressive way. But in the US when someone does it and you say “hey man, did you see that spot is reserved for EV charging?”, 9 times out of 10 you can expect a belligerent response. So to those people, I cheer on a tow truck driver like in the video. If my EV can fast charge, I would prefer chargers are not in idea parking (unless it’s a place only for EVs), but some EV owners will actually think that since they have an EV and are saving the human race, that they deserve the best parking. This mentality is not from grass roots EV enthusiasts, those people are pretty down to Earth. It’s the new EV owners that can’t even keep a cell phone charged, and bought it because of the special privileges they get that will be the problem. The installer of the chargers will determine how many fights occur just based on the charger location. Sometimes at hotels, it was just cheaper to run power from the best parking, but since those are lvl2 chargers they can spend a few bucks more to run a cable an extra hundred feet.
I dunno. Have we lost the freedom of the road? When we hit the road we want to worry about the chile dogs we ate too much of at that last drive -in car hop restaurant rather than headwinds, distance to the next charger, freeway speeds vs range and charger parking taken up by rude uncaring people. If you have to focus on charging plans and even towing to the next working charge location then you have missed the whole purpose of the trip, unless that stuff is what you have fun doing. You understand?
No, I don't because all of that is still there with EVs, but you have to understand EVs first. When was the first time you filled a tank of gas? When was the first time you saw your parents fill a tank of gas? You probably don't remember. To me, you are taking for granted years of experience that allow you to simply drive without thinking about it. I'm at that point with EVs now myself, so these videos are only here to teach others what I know and have learned.
@@newscoulomb3705 i see you are at that point with very familiar routes and charging locations but to see the USA in your Chevrolet it would take you quickly out of that comfort zone of running up and down California and back to being focused on planning and sweating the charge waypoints and the seemingly extreme times needed to charge with significant portions of valuable free time for the trip sitting parked at charging facilities.
@@arthurtennessen9680 Not necessarily. Again, it's the principles that matter, and they are the same regardless of location. Obviously, the Bolt EV is just one example (a relatively slow charging EV), and the infrastructure is still being built out in some areas. However, just as you can't drive a gas car willy-nilly wherever you want without planning or adjustments, you also have to make adjustments based on what's currently available. The most important aspect is having proper expectations for your trip. Again, that's true regardless of the vehicle. A friend drove his Bolt EV across Canada and back over three years ago. The fact that he was driving an all-electric car faded into the background of what was otherwise an epic road trip.
They need electric fast chargers at every 35 to 50 miles down main highways. So many electric vehicles that are affordable only go 35 to 82 miles and the range normally is around 40 to 50 miles for most cheaper electric cars. The chevy spark ev goes only 50 miles on average as its battery degrades over time and never stays at 82 miles when its new just like The bolts batteries will degrade over time as well and that 220 to 240 mile range will go down to under 180 over time to. So these charging spots need to figure that in to. To be safe with electric cars they need to at minimum be as frequently available as gas station stops. So every 35 to 50 miles for electric chargers needs to be the norm otherwise electric cars just wont and cant take off like they could. Most people can't afford 30k or more ev's. They buy cheap sparks used and others like them used that can't go long range like 30 to 100k electric cars can. Not everyone can afford or get a Tesla. If I'm going to get a electric car and ditch gas cars then they better have chargers every 35 to 50 miles down the highway or put better batteries in electric cars to get 400 miles at least. And with normal degradation over time they would still get at least 300 miles and at the minimum 200 miles in the winter. Anything under 200 miles just isn't practical with cars only going 50 mile ranges on the norm for electric cars. People will keep buying used gas cars for a few grand and can go everywhere with them without range anxiety. They need to make them go way Farther and bring the cost way down or electric cars will just stop being a thing over time. Also they need to implement a insurance policy with electric cars that covers replacement of those huge batteries after so many years of ownership of them or when a defect happens. If your battery goes bad or is degrading too fast the batteries cost 10 to 15 grand to replace right now. Thats insane and ridiculous.
I have over 135,000 miles in my Bolt EV, and I can still easily drive more than 200 to 220 miles on a charge. Close to 300 miles a slower speeds. Used Bolt EVs are only about $15,000 now, so they are quite affordable for most people. Otherwise, I agree. I'd like to see chargers at most freeway offramps. It's not that you need them (I typically only need three stops to go 500 to 600 miles), but you want them there when you need them. It mostly just makes traveling more convenient.
A Prius definitely refuels faster, there's no doubt. It's great for road trips, but the other 90% of your driving, you're stuck with the more expensive, less engaging Prius. A lot of traveling in an EV depends on trip planning. If you plan your trips well, you only spend a minute or two charging. I get a lot of weekly shopping and errands done while charging, in addition to the standard travel stop things such as eating and using the bathroom.
@@newscoulomb3705 i am interested in ev to buy but not yet, still waiting for way more charging stations. At this point my diesel car can drive longer than all ev on market and very cheap. There will more competition, prices will get lower and range will increase. For people that have a diesel or a prius payed out with low miles it is not smart to buy ev, it cost me @500 in diesel a year for all my travel needs.
The Time would be my issue.. 12 hours to go 527 miles.. wow. I could cover that in 7-8 hours depending on speed allowed. 6.5 hours in my area... and spend about $33 for fuel. All this depends on your area.. I do love the EV's. I've driven a Bolt EV, and liked it very much. But I spend way to much time traveling to deal with the charging times. At least for now... I'm sure it will get much better in the future, and then I'll probably switch myself.
Man I kind of hope prospective EV buyers don't watch this video, ~12 hours to drive ~500 miles that's an average of less than 42MPH. What would have been the miles and time in an ICEV? Looks like to my house in the Valley from Sacramento is about 380Mi and under 6H. Even if you add an hour for stops (though FTR I've driven 400+ miles non-stop multiple times) and you're at under 7 hours. Obviously a big part of this trip was exploration and seeing the different chargers was very interesting but I can see a lot of people who might be considering an EV seeing this and then going to buy a Prius or something.
In an ICE, it would have been a minimum of 10 hours, and more if stopping for food. This was also during a holiday weekend, and besides taking several detours down back roads (
Yeah, I just inputted the route into Google Maps. Driving the route I drove, without any traffic or stops, it would take an ICE vehicle about 9 hours and 15 minutes. With the traffic I saw, it definitely would have taken a minimum of 10 hours.
Robert - you might think that EVs are significantly slower on a trip vs an ICE car, and they are if you’re the type who only stops to grab a bite, restroom visit, and maybe gas every 3 hours. But if you break up a longer trip a little differently, (allowing for charging stops every 150 to 200 miles) and actually take time to eat a meal in relaxed comfort, the trip will be more appreciated if you allow a few minutes every couple of hours for a stretch break. And there’s not that much time added for the stops unless a days drive is like 900 miles. For that case, it’s splash and go all day long and an EV doesn’t even compare.
Robert Aitchison "I can see a lot of people who might be considering an EV seeing this and then going to buy a Prius or something". Robert: We purchased a fully loaded Kia Niro Touring Hybrid (and I mean absolutely LOADED) this summer for $32,300 Canadian (that's well under $25,000 U.S). Of course I'll have to anti up about $100 per year on oil changes. OMG! The horror! My wife's brother lives 374 miles away so each round trip is a considerable journey. On our trip there and back in September, we went over 560 miles on a single tank of fuel. That cost me about $50 Canadian. BUT it wasn't actually empty yet! Based on the fuel tank capacity specification, we could have probably journeyed another 50 miles but I don't like playing Russian Roulette when it comes to running out of fuel. Never had ANY consideration of range anxiety. Didn't have to plan any "out of the way" excursions to hopefully find some place to charge up and then finding out that either A: There was an Internal Combustion Vehicle parked at the charging station or B: The charging station was malfunctioning or C: I didn't have the "Proper Authorization / Membership" to add range to my vehicle instead of just being able to pull up and use a standard credit card for whose-ever charging station I was trying to use. Now I'm seeing the ridiculously high kWH fees these bandits are charging and I'm so glad I stayed away from the whole stinking scenario of a pure EV. In the city where I live, virtually EVERY time I've checked EV charging stations there is an internal combustion engined vehicle parked there or it is somehow otherwise blocked, ie closed gates at night at dealerships, etc. The more I research EV's, the topic of only using your battery down to 20% and charging to 80%, keeps coming up to extend battery life. (Ironically, that's pretty much what hybrid vehicles do automatically). Then in winter you can count on your range diminishing by another 25% of full capacity. Where I live, we actually have winter, and plenty of it. So all of a sudden, that highly advertised 240 range becomes 84 miles in winter IF you want to maximize battery life. Too bad, so sad, that again the highly advertised charging rate plummets when the temperatures drop due to cold batteries so your recharge TIME skyrockets. At this time, IMHO the ONLY plausible option I see for trying to be "affordably" greener is a Plug-In Hybrid Vehicle that can be charged at home in Off Peak hours to meet the needs of most daily commutes without interrupting those times when you actually need to cover some distance. However due to the higher initial price of those vehicles; without some kind of rebate availability for EV or PHEV ownership, the cost differential between a PHEV and a simpler hybrid offers no reasonable return on investment. With a rebate, a PHEV can "sometimes" actually be less expensive up front than a regular hybrid. At any rate, we LOVE our Kia Niro and will live with that choice for the duration of our 4 year lease and then see how the EV industry and charging infrastructure is emerging.
@@claytonroot806 It's not ironic, it's by design. And yes, the 20% to 80% is a good rule of thumb for day-to-day driving, but for trips, most battery experts will say it's no biggie charging to 100% and discharging down to 5-10%. Now, for best trip speeds, you'll only be using about a 60% window of the battery, which in your winters might end up being about 90 miles between charging stops. So in a Bolt EV, a 30 to 45 minute charging stop every hour and a half of driving. Not great, but a little extra time on long trips is a small price to pay for the added convenience in your day-to-day life.
What? You think you shouldn't have to pay for the energy you use? Tesla incorporated FREE supercharging into their early marketing to get things rolling along BUT that was on vehicles costing from $70,000 upwards to well over $100,000. Those programs of free supercharging are ending for Tesla owners as well, although I have a feeling Tesla will keep the cost per kilowatt hour of electricity used lower than most other charging stations.
Ironically, the Model 3s I saw on the freeway this trip all ended up taking several hours longer than I did because of backlogs at the Superchargers. It's a real give and take at this point.
@@newscoulomb3705 good thing the superchargers are growing very quickly. also very good that no other manufacturers have taken tesla up on its offer to join the supercharger network
I hope your having some kind of fun doing what you are doing. I don't have that kind of patience. I have a Leaf with an aging battery and it is reduced to being my go to the store car and nothing else. I love what it is but you can't go anywhere with it other then local driving. I have a real car for going hundreds of miles away. If everybody had to do what you are doing then driving would be a real cluster#%@$. And we would have to generate tons of electricity with fossil fuel so what are we thinking?
Well, I have to travel for work and family anyway, so this isn't that big of a deal. Because I'm typically driving for 8 or more hours, I usually take at least a long lunch/dinner and a couple of bathroom breaks no matter which vehicle I'm driving. So the Bolt EV really only requires me to stop for an extra half hour or so. To be fair to your point, though, I couldn't imagine making these trips in a LEAF. Even the 40 kWh LEAF would be troublesome because of its lack of active thermal management. As for the fossil fuels, it's not that big of a deal, especially in California. The amount of CO2 released from internal combustion passenger vehicles at this point is double the CO2 output of the power grid. Essentially, transitioning to an EV would reduce CO2 production by more than half.
Thanks for showing us the life of an EV owner!! I greatly appreciate this as it helps me understand what will need to be considered when purchasing now until more charge points are added throughout the US!!
Thanks! There's still a lot to consider, but one thing that's difficult to communicate is just how effortless EV ownership is for daily driving.
I liked you showing the charging screens and how much kWh you got and the cost for each charger..
Good review of the various charger providers.
Thanks!
When at the Recargo charging station and you are the only one there, plug in to the station to the left of the spot you are parked at rather than the station in front of the car. You will reduce the stress on the charger port and get a good start right away. I do this at Electrify America stations.
Good suggestion. I'll try that next time.
You should leave notes on their windows to help educate them to move their car
Scott Miller Is that even legal?
Do you always drive in low and sport mode?
Yes, pretty much all the time.
I dont know much about all electric cars but I would like to know how many miles you traveled total and what the actual cost was for comparison to an ice car. thanks
I usually go over the full range and trip time at the end. Perhaps adding a chart or graph would help?
In this case, this was not a typical trip. I was driving out of my way in heavy traffic to test out chargers I might not otherwise use, so the costs and time would be more misleading than helpful.
Wow cool to see electrify America working. We have 8 locations with 4 per location that need power turned on
Yup. So far, I haven't had any major issues, but I've only used their 50 kW chargers.
Those recargo chargers looks cool.
Yes, those are BTC Power HPC (high power chargers). Recargo paid for custom screens, though.
Is there one app you can recommend that shows all charge locations of various providers?
Yes, I would recommend PlugShare. It's community driven, so uses can add and update charging sites. You can also filter the displayed charging sites based on your needs.
At Recargo Station comments that the station is well lite..."even at night" ..would you light it during the day?? lol ....Good video on how it all work...thanks
Thanks for all the time you spend educating us EV drivers and other thinking about shifting away from ICV. One question: All my friends have laughed at me saying that I will never sale or trade my Bolt mainly due to a degraded battery. Those comments send shills on my spine as I only depend on a modest salary. Was I wrong when I bought my EV? Will their prophecy be fullfilled?
How many miles do you plan to put on your Bolt EV? If you would be fine with 180 to 200 miles of range after putting 200,000 miles on the car, why worry?
@@newscoulomb3705 I commute to work and do short errands on weekends. I have put so far 3K miles since last March 2018. I intend to drive only when needed and use my bike weather permitting. I charge the battery at home using only the slow 110 volt connection.
@@pedinomefaux I really don't think you have much to worry about, then. I'd just make sure that you only charge to 80-90% (Hilltop Reserve Mode or Charge Termination).
Eduardo Villegas you are actually going to see the best overall results. Just make sure to not run your battery below 20% and not charge over 85% unless absolutely necessary. Precondition all your trips while you are plugged in as well.
News Coulomb - 76k miles and how much battery degradation on yours to date? Single digits %, I’d say. Looks like Eduardo made a good choice in picking a Bolt for the long term.
Wow Electrify America is expensive. That calculated out to about $0.75 per kilowatt unless my math was completely off. I think Tesla charges $0.25 for superchargers. I'd like to see Electrify come down a bit in price.
Or does Electrify charge based on time rather than power drawn? Did you say the max speed on those chargers was 50kwh?
West coast electricity cost is triple or more the coast of a kilowatt in Florida or Tennessee. Strangely the progressive states cost for electricity is very hight which kinda makes the point of going to electric powered cars kind of moot unless gas is also taxed so high that it makes it a better deal to use electric power that although also taxed too high is still less that the same power provided by fossil fuels. But you are still screwed just less so with electric powered cars. Lets also consider what a damper on the trip that a brownout causes if it occurs when you must have a charge to progress while a full tank of gas would take you out of the brownout area and you are good to go which is the top priority for considering a fuel source, it must be available and should not be interrupted by somebody parked at one of two chargers or both are down for a regularly scheduled California brownout.
...and if we are talking a crying kid in the back seat then suddenly a tank of gas is priceless over a hour at a charger...trust me.
@@arthurtennessen9680 California rates are $.18 per kw. That's only .07 more than Florida's average rate of $.11. Hardly triple.
As for "going electric" not being worth it; sorry to say that isn't true either. Based on fuel cost alone, an electric car even in CA will cost you half of what gas will annually.
In regards to brown outs that you mention twice. Gas pumps run on electricity and go down when the electricity goes down.
And to the "kid crying in the back seat" argument (mentioned in your next post). When I travel across state, (5 hour drive), my charging stops are 20-30 mins. I make two of those stops. This allows me plenty of time to get out, stretch, pee, grab a bite to eat and typically my car is ready to go before I am. My trip is more pleasant for it too.
My 3 kids are grown now, but I can safely say that when they were toddlers, I used to let them burn off some energy before getting back in the car. Each to their own.
I've never spent an hour at a charger. As stated above, the majority of charging stops are 20-30 mins. Usually closer to 20. Weather does play into that, colder days tend to be nearer to 30 as the car protects its battery by charger a bit slower in the extreme cold.
@@Kuth70 And if what gasoline price analysts are telling us comes true, that gasoline could get very expensive this summer thanks to a paucity of drivers needed to deliver the gas to the filling stations, then these EV autos could wind up being even more economical.
How about a sign saying you will be towed if you are not an electric vehicle. It would work for me.
Well, I think it's more than just that. The problem is, most of the vehicles are electric, but they can't/aren't using the chargers. I think they need to be ticketed $250 if not plugged in and charging.
I noticed that you are driving in " Sport Mode," is there a benefit to that in terms of extending the range on the highway? I would have thought just the opposite.
I drive in Sport because I prefer the pedal sensitivity. It doesn't have a huge impact on range or efficiency unless you're driving it hard.
I enjoyed joining you vicariously on this trip. Say, how do you go about getting the multiple screens displayed?
Thanks! It's just multiple cameras. I then have to edit it together. I use Adobe Premiere.
Thanks for letting me know. I'll check out Adobe Premiere.
The Recargo & Electrify America are pretty nice. Chargepoint is still popular in Canada. EVgo while probably the oldest & most developed certainly feels its age. Well at least they work well.
Yes, EVgo, in my experience, is the most reliable of the public charging providers.
Eric - man those Recargo chargers are nice! Big displays which show you a lot of stuff. This is the parent of Chargepoint? You’d never know it by looking at those chargers. Thanks for taking us along. Interesting comment re strategy thoughts for which chargers to use along your route. Hopefully access to/from main thoroughfares, food choices, and shopping choices come into play as well, as choices are made for where to place these multiple charger setups. EV drivers and passengers, for now anyway, have a little bit of time on their hands when they stop for a charge. How best to turn that into a commercial opportunity? You had mentioned rest area chargers got approved for CA. Interesting to see if this turns a rest area into more of a “travel center” as time goes by.
Recargo is the parent company of Plugshare, not ChargePoint.
Keith McDonnell - You’re right - thanks for setting me straight. :-)
Great coverage man! A used Tesla with supercharging included and all those miles you have driven may have cost similar to your bolt? Around when u bought your bolt they were able to be found (S 85) in the US for mid 40s and low 50s. Especially night of semi unveil, super cheap ones hit all at once. 30k range too. We bought our used model S in October and still have ppwk issues w Tesla but wife is loving the car compared to the leaf. (Bought used for 38k) that bolt has quite a lot of life in it tho.... man. So many choices now.
Added comment:your edit skills are sharpening! I love the plug in click click boom stuff. Pretty cool!
I had a thought about your trip North before Thanksgiving. Do you think that Nissan's "no charge to charge" program contributes to charger abuse like that Leaf at 100% blocking the charging station?
Not for the chargers I usually rely on. The no charge to charge seems to be a bigger issue in cities with local drivers using public charging instead of charging at home. Outside of cities, it's usually not an issue.
Keith McDonnell Hi. Blame not the program but persons that have little sense of community like ones I see parked by chargers w/o charging just because is convenient. These seems to be a parallel to the drivers that block handicap slots illegally. Thanks
@@Rhaman68 I saw that for the first time a week ago. I was charging L2 and a leaf parked next to me at another L2 and went directly into the Mall I was at without even plugging in. I sat in my car, and moved it as soon as I reached 95% (I had moved from CCS to L2 after I hit 90%)
Well, now that the volt will die soon, I'm thinking that I might as well get the Bolt EV. I seem to agree with you, Recargo seems to be a very good site. Electrify America is building sites in the midwest to be opened next year, so I'm not too worried. As long as I have chargers spaced every 180 miles along freeways, I'm happy.
Adithya Ramachandran - 180 miles is a good number for the Bolt. Cold weather trips take a bunch of that away, though, which makes a Bolt less practical for long journeys in cold weather.
@@dennislyon5412 I usually dont do road trips in winter anyway. The rare occasion where I have to, it would make more sense to rent.
They need electric fast chargers at every 35 to 50 miles down main highways. So many electric vehicles that are affordable only go 35 to 82 miles and the range normally is around 40 to 50 miles for most cheaper electric cars. The chevy spark ev goes only 50 miles on average as its battery degrades over time and never stays at 82 miles when its new just like The bolts batteries will degrade over time as well and that 220 to 240 mile range will go down to under 180 over time to. So these charging spots need to figure that in to. To be safe with electric cars they need to at minimum be as frequently available as gas station stops. So every 35 to 50 miles for electric chargers needs to be the norm otherwise electric cars just wont and cant take off like they could. Most people can't afford 30k or more ev's. They buy cheap sparks used and others like them used that can't go long range like 30 to 100k electric cars can. Not everyone can afford or get a Tesla. If I'm going to get a electric car and ditch gas cars then they better have chargers every 35 to 50 miles down the highway or put better batteries in electric cars to get 400 miles at least. And with normal degradation over time they would still get at least 300 miles and at the minimum 200 miles in the winter. Anything under 200 miles just isn't practical with cars only going 50 mile ranges on the norm for electric cars. People will kee buying used gas cars for a few grand and can go everywhere with them without range anxiety. They need to make them go wzy further and bring the cost way down or electric cars will just stop being a thing over time.
I passed by on charge point the day you where charging ...I should have stopped by to say hi didn't know it was you
Hey NC, nice video and nice smattering of chargers. I would love to see a table of: Vendor kWh price $/khw start-end pct for this trip.
Like
EvShmo 35.2 $10.50 $0.24 15%-63%
Also a total spent and total miles driven. I am still quite skeptical on the Electrify America pricing structure. It seems outrageous, and until it's adjusted I see no point in wanting more of their chargers. Visiting them would only be for desperation or to make UA-cam videos. :-)
So, are you saying that for 2017 Bolts that at some chargers you have to hold it a certain way to start the charge? And, have you heard that there are two battery series in the 2017's...version 1 and version 2 and that if I'm looking for a used 2017 I should look for the sticker on the battery saying version 2?
It's true for some 2018s as well. I haven't seen the issue with 2019 or 2020 MY.
There's no need to check the battery version. The V1 battery might have only been the initial build of a few thousand Bolt EVs. I think someone said their March 2017 build had Version 2.
Regardless, it issue is with the socket, not the battery.
@@newscoulomb3705 so it might be Vins that point to being built in February or earlier of a given model year? What exactly is the issue with the socket?
@@blindponyband It's not clear. It appears that the weight of the cord pulls the top of the plug away from the socket, which breaks communication with the charger during activation. Simply lifting the plug is enough to ensure a proper connection.
Is there a time limit for Electrify America charging stations (like the 60 minute limit on EVgo)?
It would be good to see the max distance you can get on a full charge, hypermiling, in normal warm weather, and then in cold weather, below 25F degree using the heater.
John Smith - 300 miles or more (hypermiling) is easy in the summer or warm months, if the avg speed is 55 or less. Bolt is super efficient when in warm air and not a lot of speed. Heat demands for cold weather are only excessive for short trips or the first part of a longer trip. Once the car and battery are warmed up, you can still get close to 3 mi/kWh with temps in the 20s. Big swings in efficiency (when exposed to obstacles such as wind) are present with any high efficiency car, but because the battery also supplies heat, cold weather effect is a double hit in the Bolt.
Is the issue here the Bolt EV range OR general cost of KWs or problems with electrify American cost/availability. If I charge 80+% at home no problems with a Bolt or for that matter any quality EV?
Yes, this was mostly a snapshot of the different providers. For the most part, you'd be charging at home. This is mostly pertinent for trips or when you're out of town.
How would ice cars like us ev drivers pulling up to a gas station and taking the spots beside the gas tanks and going inside to get snacks and not buy gas. They should put that in their pipe and smoke it! By the way, I just purchased a 2020 Kia Niro EV EX Premium, and I absolutely love it. Congrats on the Bolt!
How many miles are you getting per stop
Aren't there any Blink stations in your area?
I'm sure there are, but I gave up on Blink a long, long time ago. As far as I know, they don't have any DCFC, which are the only thing I'll use on long trips.
@@newscoulomb3705 Hmm... in my area, lots of DCFC Blink stations.. but they are expensive... like 49 cents per kWh.
If you backed into the Recargo charger spot will it reach then? Pulling as far back as you can utilizing your backup cam???
No, it wouldn't reach. Some vehicles have to back in (BMW i3, Hyundai Ioniq Electric, VW e-Golf, etc), but any of the vehicles with front DCFC ports, like the Audi e-Tron, Chevy Bolt EV, Jaguar I-Pace, Porsche Taycan, etc. will have to pull front end in first.
That’s a serious design flaw that I hope gets remedied with any chargers they instal from this point on.
Are they aware of this issue? Have they acknowledged and stated they will modify it in the future?
@@shtunot I don't know that I agree. It's a pretty standard configuration. Having the chargers protrude out into the parking spaces takes a larger footprint. Electrify America's charging sites are both end of the parking space and between parking spaces. I guess that over time, we will see which configuration is best. Tesla also uses both types of layouts (sometimes at the same site).
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. All they would need to do is lengthen the cable so the reach would be comfortable with either a “head in” or “ back in” parking. If you had two feet more length to that charge cable it would be fine.
Love to see "WALMART" have about 6+ charge stations near front of store. Walmart knows the Customer will have an hour+ to shop during the charge! We will know that if you go to Walmart to shop there will be charge stations too!
Yes, I usually try to limit my charging stops to 30-45 minutes. That's about the right amount of time to grab something from the store.
My son works for a state transportation planning agency and Walmart, Shell (and other gas stations) all have plans for major EV charging points in the next 5 years. I believe he said Walmart told the state that ALL Walmarts will have them by 2025 (but he doesn’t believe them).
@@m1cajah Fingers crossed!
Seeing how you plug in just makes me more sure that charging port at front of car hood is best location, instead of by the car's side...
There are benefits and issues. Given I've already broken the front of my car twice now, I'd be a little worried about having a charging port up there.
@@newscoulomb3705 I have Nissan LEAF and appreciate its front charge port. If it was on the side of car, it seems you have to stretch the cable more to reach it, as most chargers are located in the position best for head-in parking and usage, not like gas stations configurations where the side port for gas is better suited.
Thought the Bolt could charge at up to 80kW. Your max was 56?? Thanks for the effort to document this; it would have been nice to have a brief uniform summary (time, kWh, cost, max rate) after each charge. A bit confused about how much of the limitations were due to the charging station and how much due to vehicle battery mgmt. system.
GM noted 80 kW to indicate the charger speed required for maximum charging rate (56 kW). For some reason, that is common practice. Hyundai and Kia list their vehicles as "100 kW" even though they only charge at 70 kW.
It's a bit easier to track charging rates using amps. The Bolt EV's max charging current is 150 A, which is faster than most public chargers open right now.
@@newscoulomb3705 Yes, you would need over 200A to get 80kW @ 380-390V. Our Leaf is rated 50kW and can charge at 49kW (with 150A in Europe); we only get 45kW @ 125A in NorCal. Wish PlugShare would let you filter by charger current. Recargo is not listed as a network on PlugShare even though they made PlugShare?
Hey I recently drove my bolt to Vegas from my home town Los Angeles I used EVgo chargers a few times that was almost two months ago still haven’t charged me anyone know what might be going on?
there are no videos on UA-cam showing us how Chevy bolt owners find fast chargers on road trips. in my bmw i3 or Tesla our navigation system can locate fast chargers along our route. how does bolt owner do this?
I just use voice commands with Android Auto and Google Maps:
ua-cam.com/video/9xkSQdkgQJs/v-deo.html
You can always drop back on your speed
Can you charge your Chevy bolt on a Tesla supercharger?
That chargepoint DC fast charger looked a bit better. Maybe a little cheaper and faster?
Would love to have a Chevy Bolt
I LOVE mine!
Love that you're pro EV. But those charging costs are 3x the prices of Tesla. Damn!!
After the recent price increase on the Superchargers, the Electrify America chargers are only about double, but Electrify America stated that they are reworking their fee schedule.
The EVgo and Recargo chargers are about the same cost as the Superchargers at this point (though EVgo did recently bump up their prices).
Tesla's incredibly expensive purchase prices factors into the cost of Supercharging.
My 2012 leaf only adds 8 kWh in 45 minutes you are lucky withe bolt battery
The Bolt EV is a step up from previous EVs, but I think we need to expect better, soon. The Bolt EV, e-Niro, and Kona Electric are all going to need to push their charging speeds up for wider adoption.
Completely agree with you! Charging times and the Super Charger network in general remains Tesla's biggest advantage across their whole product line. There is little to no hope from me that the public charging network as well as non-tesla car manufacturers understand this fact and are working in concert to change it. Just look at these charge time estimates from Chargepoint on upcoming EVs (check the graph at the bottom) www.chargepoint.com/blog/10-notable-new-electric-vehicles-coming-your-way-2019/?
We're just now getting a few cars that can take advantage of 100kW chargers, much less the 300 kW chargers that Tesla will start phasing into their network that already runs at 120kW. The advantage is truly staggering when long travel is primary use of the car. However! Long range travel is not the primary use of most cars. My Bolt usually gets charged a measly 10 kW per day, and that is usually enough. I have taken it on long trips though, and the Tesla would have saved me about 3 hours versus the Bolt on charging times on my example trip.
I agree with you that EVgo needs to charge them an overtime fee because EVgo is loosing potential money.....just likeTesla does.
It's still too early for there to be crowding at corridor EV fast charging sites. There will have to be a lot more sales of non-Tesla cars that can charge as fast or faster than the Bolt EV for the demand to build. We need Kona EV, Niro EV, iPace, eTron, EQ-C, etc and of course, the EA chargers will fill up first because they will be the fastest chargers available for charging en-route. Today, I think most Bolt EV owners have another car that they would rather drive on a long trip. Hence the lack of crowding, even on a holiday weekend.
We already see some "crowding" at public charging sites, but it's nothing like what Tesla sees at their Superchargers. Someone on the Bolt EV forums broke down the math a bit, and it turns out that, despite having a lead in the number of chargers, Tesla actually has twice as many vehicles per charger as CCS equipped vehicles. And you're right, probably half of those CCS vehicles aren't typically used for long trips (or they have REX like the i3), so they won't impact the infrastructure in the same way.
The good news is, by the time those other CCS vehicles appear in any real numbers, California will likely have far more CCS plugs than there are Superchargers, so people using the public charging infrastructure might never see those long wait times.
As EV drivers, we all hope that charging infrastructure will keep up with user demand, be it Superchargers or industry standard chargers. However, history has shown that there is not a profit motive for private companies to build inter-city charging infrastructure. Every major DCFC network build-out has had a major government influenced component.
- EVgo started in California with a State mandate from the NRG settlement.
- CEC awarded grants for corridor fast charging two years ago that is just now coming online.
- Electrify America is due entirely to the dieselgate settlement.
Tesla is the only one who is building a charging network without government support or mandate. EVgo is leveraging contributions from automakers to increase their penetration, but it's mostly for sites that will see regular use in metro areas, not inter-city corridors that would have more intermittent usage.
I will also point out that most of the crowding at fast charging sites is in metro areas, not rural inter-city charging sites. This applies equally to Superchargers and industry standard chargers. Superchargers only get crowded at rural sites during major holiday travel periods. To my amazement, the 40 stall Kettleman City Supercharger did achieve 100% utilization for short periods during this Thanksgiving holiday week.
Your forecast of CCS plugs to Superchargers is unlikely to come true due to Tesla's continued network build-out and unmatched EV production. Also, I expect that Tesla will eventually release a CCS adapter for North American cars, much to the chagrin of non-Tesla drivers.
I dont live too far from here. i know they have a charger in that walmart parking lot on elk grove blvd.
This ICEed issue does disturb me not for daily use but for long distance travel. In my local EV club I told them we should call a local TV station and stage a fake EV park in at a gas station but no one thought it was a good idea. Just as a gage for a few minutes to get a video plug but the other EVer thought we might get people mad at us.
I've seen people park EVs at gas pumps before. For the most part, it isn't an issue unless the station is busy.
These Electrify America sites are mostly for local travel (50 kW). The fastest long-distance charging sites they are putting in look to be in better locations (less likely to be ICE'd).
Do you not have a level 2 charger at home?
I don't have access to any charging at home.
Yeah, but he doesn't have a 500 mile long extension cord!
There should be chargers at dealerships also.
@9:45 I think that’s a reasonable billing, $1+ 35¢/min. It cost you 78¢/kWh, but that was for a test. And that’s just a 50 kW charger, right? Once they get 150 kw chargers they need a formula like $1 + 25¢/kWh + 20¢/min.
Alternatively they can use a system that charges you $1 plus the higher of either 35¢/kWh or 35¢/min, so as long as you charge at 60kw or higher, you pay just for the electricity, not the parking space. And if you aren’t charging, you pay 35¢/min to park there while plugged in.
Recharging fees calculated "by the minute" are insane and unfair. Is everybody supposed to sit around and wait until the charge rate falls off as the battery moves closer to full so they don't needlessly get ripped off? What about in winter conditions when charge rates fall off considerably due to cold batteries? Conversely, a huge "by the minute fee" could be applied once a battery is full so that people don't just leave their car parked in an electric vehicle charging spot and go shopping for an extended period. As far as the $1 hookup fee goes, that too is insane. They're in business and the consumer shouldn't have to pay a fee for THEIR infrastructure every time they show up to be a "customer". I don't pay a fee separately to shove a gas nozzle into my vehicle. If I do, at least it's buried in the price per gallon displayed on the pump. "FEES?, WE DON"T NEED NO STINKIN FEES"!
Clayton Root, in a gas vehicle there is no need because pretty much every vehicle will accept full flow rate of the gas pump. You don’t see pumps labeled as 5 gallon/min, 10 gallon per minute, 20 gallon per minute.100 gallons per minute, so you don’t encounter a situation where a car that can only fill at 1 gallon per minute is tying up the 100 gallon per minute pump.
By charging by the minute for chargers, you make sure a person with a slow charging car is not blocking the fast charger. It also helps drive technology because people want cars they can charge to 70%-80% at full rate of the charger, like Spark EV and Hyundai Ioniq.
Even the I PACE is set to charge efficiency at a 50 kW DCFC if not in a hurry, or faster at a 100 kw DCFC, or slow charge at home at 7kw.
If there are a line of DCFC from 25kw, 50kw, 100kw, you don’t want a Tesla 100D hogging the 25kw, so you make sure using that charger cost him more than using the 100 kw charger. And you don’t want a Nissan Leaf with a hot battery using the 100 kw charger, so you make sure that cost more.
Every taxi in the world uses the same billing system, because miles alone doesn’t cover the costs, so a time component is also used, as well as the flag drop charge. Same goes for charging, you need a fixed fee to begin a session, and charged per kWh and per minute.
You got over 400 miles on that charge or is that total driving that day?
No, that's just the total driving for the day. I tend to not charge for more than 45 minutes to an hour, which typically adds no more than 140 to 160 miles of range.
@@newscoulomb3705 have you tried the chargers in the walmart parking lot on elk grove blvd?
@@mts982 Yes, but those are only 50 kW, and they aren't very conveniently located for the types of trips I make.
@@newscoulomb3705what is the minimum you need to charge from?
@@mts982 Oh, it's not just the speed, but it's the speed and the convenience of the location. I try to avoid 24 kW (60 amp) and 40 kW (100 amp) when traveling, unless it's an emergency or I have no other choice. The 50 kW chargers are 125 A, and they are fine; however, I will prioritize >125 A chargers whenever possible.
In the case of the Elk Grove chargers, it's mostly about their location. There are other 50 kW chargers closer to the freeway, and there are 150+ kW chargers nearby.
The ReCargo chargers seem to be very isolated. Just wondering if you a any sort of weapon to protect against potential robbers, etc?
Prunedale, as far as I know, is an extremely safe, low-crime area.
Honestly Elecrtify America needs more chademo chargeres even tho chademo is dying
That charging problem needs to be fixed.
Hey thanks for sharing your experience with your EV. My name is Geoffrey Hodies I have a UA-cam channel under my name. I mostly go over the operations of my Tesla model 3. I bought the performance version two months ago and I am very happy with it. There’s gonna be a lot of new choices in the next year or two. But I am biased toward Tesla because they always make the highest quality product possible. Plus I really like the auto pilot. I’ll never buy another car without auto pilot again. It makes long trips so much more relaxing.
@6:54 I looked at the satellite view and it looks like they put those chargers in what would be handicapped parking, or best parking in the parking lot for someone going to Walmart. The West side next to the residential area and the East side along the main road had a lot of empty parking spots, meaning nobody will park there because they are lazy.
As far as lvl2 plug-in using a spot where a DC fast charger is, that’s also wrong installation. In my opinion should NOT have lvl2 chargers wishing reach of the DCFC parking space, but others are asking for that. I think all the lvl2 chargers, especially if they are welfare chargers, need to be in the worst parking space in the parking lot.
It’s going to be real interesting where there are handicapped EV parking spaces.
IMHO - I stopped at a couple of Walmart stores in Ohio this past summer which had single EVgo chargers perhaps too close to one of the entrance doors. In one case the customers were very respectful of the 2 angle park spaces adjacent to the charger (spots were marked), and in the other case (also marked) they were just convenient parking spots, so one was ICEd by more than one car during my charging stint. I don’t think I need to say which one had the more curious customers walking past the charger and checking things out. That one also had L2 chargers in the lot, but they were much further away from the doors - a good plan.
Dennis Lyon, yes, the reality is the only way to put them up front and not get ICEd is to have a tow truck operator like this one:
ua-cam.com/video/hJlO7s1hpQU/v-deo.html
It’s funny looking at the comments that try to defend the ones breaking the rules. “Only 3 minutes, bla bla bla”, but once a place gets a reputation like that, the ICING will stop.
But the logical solution is just put the chargers in the overflow parking area.
IMHO - nice vid you attached. A strategy like that would certainly make people think twice about parking at - or parking too long at - a fast charger! Parking the chargers further from the doors costs more if the building is providing the power. It appears that the multi charger installations are one large transformer away from the grid, so they just need to be near the above or underground power lines, and not necessarily near buildings.
Dennis Lyon, yes, if I was the planner for the DCFC installation in a huge mall parking lot, I would identify all the places I can tap the grid first, then see which is closest to the bad parking spaces, because installation cost has a big affect on return on investment, and the fast I can get a return, the faster I can do another mall parking lot, or add more chargers to an existing location.
I’ve been all over the US and all over the World, and there is no escaping the “it’s all about me” mentality. It’s very common in Asia, but mostly in a clueless, non-aggressive way. But in the US when someone does it and you say “hey man, did you see that spot is reserved for EV charging?”, 9 times out of 10 you can expect a belligerent response. So to those people, I cheer on a tow truck driver like in the video.
If my EV can fast charge, I would prefer chargers are not in idea parking (unless it’s a place only for EVs), but some EV owners will actually think that since they have an EV and are saving the human race, that they deserve the best parking. This mentality is not from grass roots EV enthusiasts, those people are pretty down to Earth. It’s the new EV owners that can’t even keep a cell phone charged, and bought it because of the special privileges they get that will be the problem.
The installer of the chargers will determine how many fights occur just based on the charger location. Sometimes at hotels, it was just cheaper to run power from the best parking, but since those are lvl2 chargers they can spend a few bucks more to run a cable an extra hundred feet.
I dunno. Have we lost the freedom of the road? When we hit the road we want to worry about the chile dogs we ate too much of at that last drive -in car hop restaurant rather than headwinds, distance to the next charger, freeway speeds vs range and charger parking taken up by rude uncaring people. If you have to focus on charging plans and even towing to the next working charge location then you have missed the whole purpose of the trip, unless that stuff is what you have fun doing. You understand?
No, I don't because all of that is still there with EVs, but you have to understand EVs first. When was the first time you filled a tank of gas? When was the first time you saw your parents fill a tank of gas? You probably don't remember. To me, you are taking for granted years of experience that allow you to simply drive without thinking about it. I'm at that point with EVs now myself, so these videos are only here to teach others what I know and have learned.
@@newscoulomb3705 i see you are at that point with very familiar routes and charging locations but to see the USA in your Chevrolet it would take you quickly out of that comfort zone of running up and down California and back to being focused on planning and sweating the charge waypoints and the seemingly extreme times needed to charge with significant portions of valuable free time for the trip sitting parked at charging facilities.
@@arthurtennessen9680 Not necessarily. Again, it's the principles that matter, and they are the same regardless of location. Obviously, the Bolt EV is just one example (a relatively slow charging EV), and the infrastructure is still being built out in some areas. However, just as you can't drive a gas car willy-nilly wherever you want without planning or adjustments, you also have to make adjustments based on what's currently available.
The most important aspect is having proper expectations for your trip. Again, that's true regardless of the vehicle. A friend drove his Bolt EV across Canada and back over three years ago. The fact that he was driving an all-electric car faded into the background of what was otherwise an epic road trip.
They need electric fast chargers at every 35 to 50 miles down main highways. So many electric vehicles that are affordable only go 35 to 82 miles and the range normally is around 40 to 50 miles for most cheaper electric cars. The chevy spark ev goes only 50 miles on average as its battery degrades over time and never stays at 82 miles when its new just like The bolts batteries will degrade over time as well and that 220 to 240 mile range will go down to under 180 over time to. So these charging spots need to figure that in to. To be safe with electric cars they need to at minimum be as frequently available as gas station stops. So every 35 to 50 miles for electric chargers needs to be the norm otherwise electric cars just wont and cant take off like they could. Most people can't afford 30k or more ev's. They buy cheap sparks used and others like them used that can't go long range like 30 to 100k electric cars can. Not everyone can afford or get a Tesla. If I'm going to get a electric car and ditch gas cars then they better have chargers every 35 to 50 miles down the highway or put better batteries in electric cars to get 400 miles at least. And with normal degradation over time they would still get at least 300 miles and at the minimum 200 miles in the winter. Anything under 200 miles just isn't practical with cars only going 50 mile ranges on the norm for electric cars. People will keep buying used gas cars for a few grand and can go everywhere with them without range anxiety. They need to make them go way
Farther and bring the cost way down or electric cars will just stop being a thing over time. Also they need to implement a insurance policy with electric cars that covers replacement of those huge batteries after so many years of ownership of them or when a defect happens. If your battery goes bad or is degrading too fast the batteries cost 10 to 15 grand to replace right now. Thats insane and ridiculous.
I have over 135,000 miles in my Bolt EV, and I can still easily drive more than 200 to 220 miles on a charge. Close to 300 miles a slower speeds. Used Bolt EVs are only about $15,000 now, so they are quite affordable for most people.
Otherwise, I agree. I'd like to see chargers at most freeway offramps. It's not that you need them (I typically only need three stops to go 500 to 600 miles), but you want them there when you need them. It mostly just makes traveling more convenient.
At $0.42 Kwh and 4.0 miles per Kwh... Gasoline is cheaper!!!!! My 2021 forester is getting 35 MPG and gas is $2.85 a gallon...
Not here, it's not. In California, 87 is $4.30 a gallon.
Too expensive and too much time wasted on charging. Prius seems to beat up all those ev
A Prius definitely refuels faster, there's no doubt. It's great for road trips, but the other 90% of your driving, you're stuck with the more expensive, less engaging Prius.
A lot of traveling in an EV depends on trip planning. If you plan your trips well, you only spend a minute or two charging. I get a lot of weekly shopping and errands done while charging, in addition to the standard travel stop things such as eating and using the bathroom.
@@newscoulomb3705 i am interested in ev to buy but not yet, still waiting for way more charging stations. At this point my diesel car can drive longer than all ev on market and very cheap.
There will more competition, prices will get lower and range will increase. For people that have a diesel or a prius payed out with low miles it is not smart to buy ev, it cost me @500 in diesel a year for all my travel needs.
The Time would be my issue.. 12 hours to go 527 miles.. wow. I could cover that in 7-8 hours depending on speed allowed. 6.5 hours in my area... and spend about $33 for fuel.
All this depends on your area..
I do love the EV's. I've driven a Bolt EV, and liked it very much.
But I spend way to much time traveling to deal with the charging times.
At least for now... I'm sure it will get much better in the future, and then I'll probably switch myself.
Man I kind of hope prospective EV buyers don't watch this video, ~12 hours to drive ~500 miles that's an average of less than 42MPH.
What would have been the miles and time in an ICEV? Looks like to my house in the Valley from Sacramento is about 380Mi and under 6H. Even if you add an hour for stops (though FTR I've driven 400+ miles non-stop multiple times) and you're at under 7 hours.
Obviously a big part of this trip was exploration and seeing the different chargers was very interesting but I can see a lot of people who might be considering an EV seeing this and then going to buy a Prius or something.
In an ICE, it would have been a minimum of 10 hours, and more if stopping for food. This was also during a holiday weekend, and besides taking several detours down back roads (
Yeah, I just inputted the route into Google Maps. Driving the route I drove, without any traffic or stops, it would take an ICE vehicle about 9 hours and 15 minutes. With the traffic I saw, it definitely would have taken a minimum of 10 hours.
Robert - you might think that EVs are significantly slower on a trip vs an ICE car, and they are if you’re the type who only stops to grab a bite, restroom visit, and maybe gas every 3 hours. But if you break up a longer trip a little differently, (allowing for charging stops every 150 to 200 miles) and actually take time to eat a meal in relaxed comfort, the trip will be more appreciated if you allow a few minutes every couple of hours for a stretch break. And there’s not that much time added for the stops unless a days drive is like 900 miles. For that case, it’s splash and go all day long and an EV doesn’t even compare.
Robert Aitchison
"I can see a lot of people who might be considering an EV seeing this and then going to buy a Prius or something".
Robert: We purchased a fully loaded Kia Niro Touring Hybrid (and I mean absolutely LOADED) this summer for $32,300 Canadian (that's well under $25,000 U.S). Of course I'll have to anti up about $100 per year on oil changes. OMG! The horror!
My wife's brother lives 374 miles away so each round trip is a considerable journey. On our trip there and back in September, we went over 560 miles on a single tank of fuel. That cost me about $50 Canadian. BUT it wasn't actually empty yet! Based on the fuel tank capacity specification, we could have probably journeyed another 50 miles but I don't like playing Russian Roulette when it comes to running out of fuel. Never had ANY consideration of range anxiety. Didn't have to plan any "out of the way" excursions to hopefully find some place to charge up and then finding out that either A: There was an Internal Combustion Vehicle parked at the charging station or B: The charging station was malfunctioning or C: I didn't have the "Proper Authorization / Membership" to add range to my vehicle instead of just being able to pull up and use a standard credit card for whose-ever charging station I was trying to use.
Now I'm seeing the ridiculously high kWH fees these bandits are charging and I'm so glad I stayed away from the whole stinking scenario of a pure EV. In the city where I live, virtually EVERY time I've checked EV charging stations there is an internal combustion engined vehicle parked there or it is somehow otherwise blocked, ie closed gates at night at dealerships, etc.
The more I research EV's, the topic of only using your battery down to 20% and charging to 80%, keeps coming up to extend battery life. (Ironically, that's pretty much what hybrid vehicles do automatically). Then in winter you can count on your range diminishing by another 25% of full capacity. Where I live, we actually have winter, and plenty of it. So all of a sudden, that highly advertised 240 range becomes 84 miles in winter IF you want to maximize battery life. Too bad, so sad, that again the highly advertised charging rate plummets when the temperatures drop due to cold batteries so your recharge TIME skyrockets.
At this time, IMHO the ONLY plausible option I see for trying to be "affordably" greener is a Plug-In Hybrid Vehicle that can be charged at home in Off Peak hours to meet the needs of most daily commutes without interrupting those times when you actually need to cover some distance. However due to the higher initial price of those vehicles; without some kind of rebate availability for EV or PHEV ownership, the cost differential between a PHEV and a simpler hybrid offers no reasonable return on investment. With a rebate, a PHEV can "sometimes" actually be less expensive up front than a regular hybrid.
At any rate, we LOVE our Kia Niro and will live with that choice for the duration of our 4 year lease and then see how the EV industry and charging infrastructure is emerging.
@@claytonroot806 It's not ironic, it's by design. And yes, the 20% to 80% is a good rule of thumb for day-to-day driving, but for trips, most battery experts will say it's no biggie charging to 100% and discharging down to 5-10%. Now, for best trip speeds, you'll only be using about a 60% window of the battery, which in your winters might end up being about 90 miles between charging stops. So in a Bolt EV, a 30 to 45 minute charging stop every hour and a half of driving. Not great, but a little extra time on long trips is a small price to pay for the added convenience in your day-to-day life.
I didn’t no you have to pay🤷🏿♂️
Yup. You have to pay for the electricity and equipment you use.
What? You think you shouldn't have to pay for the energy you use? Tesla incorporated FREE supercharging into their early marketing to get things rolling along BUT that was on vehicles costing from $70,000 upwards to well over $100,000. Those programs of free supercharging are ending for Tesla owners as well, although I have a feeling Tesla will keep the cost per kilowatt hour of electricity used lower than most other charging stations.
man thank god i have a tesla and dont have to deal with this BS. Just reminds me that i made the right decision on which EV to buy.
Ironically, the Model 3s I saw on the freeway this trip all ended up taking several hours longer than I did because of backlogs at the Superchargers. It's a real give and take at this point.
@@newscoulomb3705 good thing the superchargers are growing very quickly. also very good that no other manufacturers have taken tesla up on its offer to join the supercharger network
liked what you are covering. just too long to watch.
Yes, this one ran a bit long. I did put time tags if you wanted to see specific charging providers.
@@newscoulomb3705 I see that now. Thx for the tip.
I hope your having some kind of fun doing what you are doing. I don't have that kind of patience. I have a Leaf with an aging battery and it is reduced to being my go to the store car and nothing else. I love what it is but you can't go anywhere with it other then local driving. I have a real car for going hundreds of miles away. If everybody had to do what you are doing then driving would be a real cluster#%@$. And we would have to generate tons of electricity with fossil fuel so what are we thinking?
Well, I have to travel for work and family anyway, so this isn't that big of a deal. Because I'm typically driving for 8 or more hours, I usually take at least a long lunch/dinner and a couple of bathroom breaks no matter which vehicle I'm driving. So the Bolt EV really only requires me to stop for an extra half hour or so. To be fair to your point, though, I couldn't imagine making these trips in a LEAF. Even the 40 kWh LEAF would be troublesome because of its lack of active thermal management.
As for the fossil fuels, it's not that big of a deal, especially in California. The amount of CO2 released from internal combustion passenger vehicles at this point is double the CO2 output of the power grid. Essentially, transitioning to an EV would reduce CO2 production by more than half.