2:30 One thing they don’t mention is that the no flare auto works best with an R44 with no passengers and nearly empty fuel tanks. An R22 with full fuel and a passenger will usually result in a bent aircraft.
Probably yes! But if the landing site is small and the only option, it is better than taking the treetops as a reference level and autorotating into the trees.
Awesome video! Great animation. And the syncronized split screen was great. I really liked seeing the gauges so clearly. Also pretty interesting to see the camera man hanging out the port side during descent. I'm currently in Instrument training flying R22's & R44's. I have not been exposed to this type of auto, but when I was a kid reading about helicopters, I thought all autos were like this one. I'm curious about the airspeed. It looks like you're descending straight down, but the IAS shows 30-40kts. Was that due to headwind? Also curious about the forward movement during the collective pull. Was this to help smooth out the skid landing (so you didn't bounce)? Or does it provide some additional lift (ETL) due to the headwind? Thanks for all the production value you put into this.
+Sean McLaughlin (Helicopter Pilot Sean) Thank you, Yes it was due to the head wind! i need the initial pitch application to break the sink rate! the rest of the pitch for the smooth touch down (like an normal hover auto)
Jan Veen Hab' ich damals mit Anton schon mal gemacht. Mit Wind von vorn (hier waohl 15kt) geht's natürlich besser, klar. Wir hatten damals 25kt, das war schon fast... ...langweilig. Wie verhält sich der R22? Mein Gefühl sagt mir, dass es für eine wirklich weiche Landung nicht reicht.
Yes this would be your only to spot land over trees. Just don't want people thinking its fine for all situations and all helis. Great skills though. What was your takeoff weight when you did this(roughly).
If the no-flare full-down autorotation can be done at zero airspeed, as stated in the video, why not do such an autorotation every time? Why are we all being taught to fly an approach at 60 to 70 knots, flare at the bottom, level the skids, etc.? According to the video: "Usually speed is essential in order to use the kinetic energy to reduce the sink rate." But this isn't true, if a no-flare full-down autorotation is always possible, even at zero airspeed. So, can we always do a no-flare full-down autorotation or not? If not, when must one do a normal full-down autorotation?
hi Robertas, it also depend also on weight, pressure, alt etc! but everything is not black an white, so i would not say do "always" this or that. at the end the pilot has to evaluate all risks and options and make his decision. i only want to demonstrate that it is possible and maybe somebody is in a situation where he has to deviate from the "normal standard" procedure to safe his live. i think that procedure is not for everybody because if you make it not correct there is at one point no option anymore, in a "normal" autorotation you can play around to safe the situation, you can play with the energys - and if you like it or not: there are pilots out there where i do not want to sit in the helicopter when they would fly this procedure! all the best for you!
Thank you for your reply. So, if I understand you correctly, the advantage of making a relatively fast approach and flaring at the bottom is that we can quite easily arrest our vertical descent well before reaching the ground and so there is no tricky timing; then we cushion a touchdown from a drop of only a few meters, which is less risky, since it means that we won't be descending very fast just before touchdown. Do I have all of this correct? By the way, I am also a gyroplane (Tragschrauber) pilot. Do you know any of the people at AutoGyro GmbH?
In flare autorotation, if you do something to late, or to fast, the most probable scebario is that you will crash the tail, the skids, or whole even whole heli nad you will survive... But, in no flare autorotation if you do something wrong, you will kill or seriously harm yourself
OMG what an AWESOME video, love the down facing cam and the gauges.
Thank You!!!
Great demonstration. And a good example of VSI delay - at the moment of touch down it still shows 700+ FPM descent. Wonder if he had much head wind?
What an awesome auto! great flying sir.
I am NOT trying this at home. Or anywhere else. I'll just have to make sure I only ever fly over big open spaces. Very good flying Sir!
You guys were over weight for sure... between the pilot and cameraman’s balls of steel that easily 1,000,000 kg. Impressive!
i just had a look, they look absolutely normal :-) !
Lol
2:30 One thing they don’t mention is that the no flare auto works best with an R44 with no passengers and nearly empty fuel tanks. An R22 with full fuel and a passenger will usually result in a bent aircraft.
Probably yes! But if the landing site is small and the only option, it is better than taking the treetops as a reference level and autorotating into the trees.
Awesome video! Great animation. And the syncronized split screen was great. I really liked seeing the gauges so clearly. Also pretty interesting to see the camera man hanging out the port side during descent. I'm currently in Instrument training flying R22's & R44's. I have not been exposed to this type of auto, but when I was a kid reading about helicopters, I thought all autos were like this one. I'm curious about the airspeed. It looks like you're descending straight down, but the IAS shows 30-40kts. Was that due to headwind? Also curious about the forward movement during the collective pull. Was this to help smooth out the skid landing (so you didn't bounce)? Or does it provide some additional lift (ETL) due to the headwind? Thanks for all the production value you put into this.
+Sean McLaughlin (Helicopter Pilot Sean) Thank you, Yes it was due to the head wind! i need the initial pitch application to break the sink rate! the rest of the pitch for the smooth touch down (like an normal hover auto)
That's amazing skill!
thank you, but believe me it is not as difficult as it looks
@inferno493
it depends on the two "W"!
Weight & Wind
it depends on the two "W"!
Weight & Wind
wind was apron 15KT. the VSI shows greatly delayed the rate of decent
Jan Veen Hab' ich damals mit Anton schon mal gemacht. Mit Wind von vorn (hier waohl 15kt) geht's natürlich besser, klar. Wir hatten damals 25kt, das war schon fast... ...langweilig.
Wie verhält sich der R22? Mein Gefühl sagt mir, dass es für eine wirklich weiche Landung nicht reicht.
Martin Loeschner kommt auf die stärke des Windes und das Gewicht drauf an. eine person, 30 Min Sprit und 25kt funktionieren :-)
Man würde es wohl überleben, das reicht.
Will this work on a low inertia rotor system?
I personally wouldn't recommend this particularly if you have a full tank and 4 people but fair play for demonstrating it.
Jonny Dickson : you are right! BUT think about this :
over Forest with only a little spot available too small to flare!? What is the better option?
Yes this would be your only to spot land over trees. Just don't want people thinking its fine for all situations and all helis. Great skills though. What was your takeoff weight when you did this(roughly).
Jonny Dickson i totally agree!!!! I think 45-60ltr and 200kg payload , but a lot of wind ( 15-25kt)
If the no-flare full-down autorotation can be done at zero airspeed, as stated in the video, why not do such an autorotation every time? Why are we all being taught to fly an approach at 60 to 70 knots, flare at the bottom, level the skids, etc.?
According to the video: "Usually speed is essential in order to use the kinetic energy to reduce the sink rate." But this isn't true, if a no-flare full-down autorotation is always possible, even at zero airspeed.
So, can we always do a no-flare full-down autorotation or not? If not, when must one do a normal full-down autorotation?
hi Robertas, it also depend also on weight, pressure, alt etc! but everything is not black an white, so i would not say do "always" this or that. at the end the pilot has to evaluate all risks and options and make his decision. i only want to demonstrate that it is possible and maybe somebody is in a situation where he has to deviate from the "normal standard" procedure to safe his live. i think that procedure is not for everybody because if you make it not correct there is at one point no option anymore, in a "normal" autorotation you can play around to safe the situation, you can play with the energys - and if you like it or not: there are pilots out there where i do not want to sit in the helicopter when they would fly this procedure! all the best for you!
Thank you for your reply. So, if I understand you correctly, the advantage of making a relatively fast approach and flaring at the bottom is that we can quite easily arrest our vertical descent well before reaching the ground and so there is no tricky timing; then we cushion a touchdown from a drop of only a few meters, which is less risky, since it means that we won't be descending very fast just before touchdown. Do I have all of this correct? By the way, I am also a gyroplane (Tragschrauber) pilot. Do you know any of the people at AutoGyro GmbH?
better via email: jan.veen@me.com
In flare autorotation, if you do something to late, or to fast, the most probable scebario is that you will crash the tail, the skids, or whole even whole heli nad you will survive... But, in no flare autorotation if you do something wrong, you will kill or seriously harm yourself
Hi Cmte, I need one training with you
Hi have one R44 and one R22
Do you have training for pilot.
thanks
You have nice pilot
Valdir Turquettes Jan.veen@me.com